Honeymoon Disaster

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Our wedding was on Friday.

On Sunday night, after we'd had a few drinks, my younger sister sent her a text message saying something to the effect of "So happy to have you as part of the family!" etc etc. Very enthusiastic, nice stuff.

BPDwife flips out, tells me I must have told my sister send her that message, grabs my phone to look at my last text convo with sister. Nothing of the sort indicated in texts (because I had never told sis to do so), so the BPDwife tells me I must have deleted the texts.

I explain that my sister genuinely likes her and was happy and that I didn't understand why she was unhappy about that. She accuses me of defending my sister, putting my sister first, and not trusting her. I remain calm, she begins screaming. I finally snap and yell back that she's being abusive and that she needs help.

She takes off engagement and wedding rings and says she's leaving (where? walking around in a city we don't live in?).

I convinced her that if she wanted to leave, she'd be better off leaving in the morning.


She apparently harbors some resentment against my little sister because:

* Last fall, my sis got in a car accident the same day that my BPDwife had a major career accomplishment, so it was no longer all about her that weekend (her words, not mine).

* Last fall, my sis got released from mental health facility (after suicide threats) on the same weekend that my BPDwife was to travel to a different city to get fitted for wedding dress. I decided it'd be better to go see my sister than to travel for dress fitting. This greatly angered her.

* Five years ago, before I met BPDwife, my little sister's facebook profile picture was a picture of me, sis, and ex-girlfriend (who I was dating at the time). My BPDwife knows this because she's gone through all sis' old profile pictures. BPDwife hates the ex, who she's never met.


I love my wife but this is absolutely terrifying. During our engagement, I'd been posting in the "Staying" forum. Now, I'm not so sure. I don't know if I can handle this level of insanity. I'm not even sure of this point of this post, I'm just still so upset. She could not go 2 days into our marriage without having a severe rage.

[SoWhat]

Our wedding was on Friday.

On Sunday night, after we'd had a few drinks, my younger sister sent her a text message saying something to the effect of "So happy to have you as part of the family!" etc etc. Very enthusiastic, nice stuff.

BPDwife flips out, tells me I must have told my sister send her that message, grabs my phone to look at my last text convo with sister. Nothing of the sort indicated in texts (because I had never told sis to do so), so the BPDwife tells me I must have deleted the texts.

I explain that my sister genuinely likes her and was happy and that I didn't understand why she was unhappy about that. She accuses me of defending my sister, putting my sister first, and not trusting her. I remain calm, she begins screaming. I finally snap and yell back that she's being abusive and that she needs help.

She takes off engagement and wedding rings and says she's leaving (where? walking around in a city we don't live in?).

I convinced her that if she wanted to leave, she'd be better off leaving in the morning.


She apparently harbors some resentment against my little sister because:

* Last fall, my sis got in a car accident the same day that my BPDwife had a major career accomplishment, so it was no longer all about her that weekend (her words, not mine).

* Last fall, my sis got released from mental health facility (after suicide threats) on the same weekend that my BPDwife was to travel to a different city to get fitted for wedding dress. I decided it'd be better to go see my sister than to travel for dress fitting. This greatly angered her.

* Five years ago, before I met BPDwife, my little sister's facebook profile picture was a picture of me, sis, and ex-girlfriend (who I was dating at the time). My BPDwife knows this because she's gone through all sis' old profile pictures. BPDwife hates the ex, who she's never met.


I love my wife but this is absolutely terrifying. During our engagement, I'd been posting in the "Staying" forum. Now, I'm not so sure. I don't know if I can handle this level of insanity. I'm not even sure of this point of this post, I'm just still so upset. She could not go 2 days into our marriage without having a severe rage.

[SoWhat]

It's also terrifying because she is gunning so hard for children RIGHT NOW. I know it's selfish, but I think: if we don't have kids, at least I'll be able to get out without too much suffering. The moment we conceive, I'm obligated for the rest of my life.

In the morning, she said she'd be willing to get help (though she stressed that she didn't think she needed it) but that she knows that they'd just recommend anti-depressants and she'd get back on them and live like a zombie. She says this is what happened when her ex-husband told her the same thing.

She also says that every man in her life lies to her by telling her she's got anger problems.

I'm too scared to tell her I think she's BPD.

[MissyM]

I am so sorry you are in this position.  Definitely get her into a a therapist, look for one that does DBT and will be able to diagnose her.  It has taken many, many years for my dBPDh to get the right diagnosis.  Whatever you do DO NOT have kids with a BPD that has not been working on their problems for years.  This is going to take some firm boundaries on your part, so work on that.

My dBPDh has ruined almost every trip we have ever taken.  Traveling greatly dysregulates my dBPDh.

[nownotsure]

I'm too scared to tell her I think she's BPD.

It's usually not recommended to tell a loved one that they may be suffering from BPD. You could be wrong with the diagnosis and it's not as straight-forward to arrive at as one would imagine, so leave it for a psychologist to arrive at. Also, pinning a label on her behavior solves absolutely nothing and may just create enormous resentment and further grief for you.

It's a good sign that your wife's willing to get help. I would suggest you take her up on it and even possibly consider going into counselling together, then take things from there.

[tired-of-it-all]

I am trying really hard not to give advice.  

I have been in a similar marriage for over 30 years.  It really never gets better unless they are serious about getting help and I don't know that true BPD's are ever really serious about it.  Please, please don't have children and don't get tricked into having children.  It will bind you to her for life.  :)on't let guilt or pity or the fantasy that she will be happier let you trick yourself in to having children with her.  I am in that situation and now have the guilt of seeing the damage that she has done to my kids.  My grown children have all told me that their mother will never change and that I should never trust her.

Please get yourself some help so that you will be strong enough to be good to yourself.  :)on't look back on 30 years and say "Why did I do this to myself and my children?"

I guess that was advice after all.  Sorry.

[MissyM]

I agree that you shouldn't tell her you think she has BPD, but tell the symptoms to a specialized therapist.  That is what finally diagnosed my dBPDH, we were at a treatment center together.  When I described all of the symptoms (I didn't know that they were the symptoms), then he received a diagnosis.

[Aussie0zborn]

You are a wise man for posting this here and not doubting yourself.  My experience is that once the wedding ring goes on, the abuse ramps up a couple of notches and then you'll be in the position where you doubt yourself, believing that maybe you are the one with the problem.  From what I've read here, once you have children you are screwed. It will only get worse.

I would run and run fast. There is no shame in saying, "we were married for two whole days and I realised it wasn't going to work out". The shame is in being a battered husband and half the man you are now in five years time, unable to show your face in public after her smear campaign.

Don't do it t yourself brother. There is no shame in admitting you made a mistake and saving yourself from a life of grief. Imagine the grief you will suffer when you can't protect your children from her. Good luck.

[WalrusGumboot]

It's also terrifying because she is gunning so hard for children RIGHT NOW. I know it's selfish, but I think: if we don't have kids, at least I'll be able to get out without too much suffering. The moment we conceive, I'm obligated for the rest of my life.

You have the right idea. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT have children with this woman. My exBPDw was pregnant within our first year of marriage, and the hell I was enduring got so much worse with a child. I knew nothing of BPD back then and didn't for 18 years. Consider yourself blessed you know about it from the start.

You know she might (will) do anything to get pregnant. Don't agree to birth control pills... . she will conveniently forget to take them. Use condoms so you are in control, even though she will complain about it. One trick my ex used was to make sure I was nice and drunk, then pressed me to have sex without protection. It worked a few times.

In the morning, she said she'd be willing to get help (though she stressed that she didn't think she needed it) but that she knows that they'd just recommend anti-depressants and she'd get back on them and live like a zombie. She says this is what happened when her ex-husband told her the same thing.

Odds are she won't ever seek help. They normally have to hit rock bottom and she's newly married with starting a family on her mind. I would expect every excuse in the book from her.

She also says that every man in her life lies to her by telling her she's got anger problems.

This is similar to my ex in that "other" men were her enemy for one reason for another. Except for me, of course. Her thinking that they are right is the furthest thing on her mind.

I am really sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I agree with Aussie that there is nothing wrong with you realizing you made a mistake, even after just a few days. If you keep going, one day you will find yourself estranged from your sister, and probably every other family member, and friends too. I endured for 23 years and there is nothing that I know that made it worth it.

[Aussie0zborn]

Please heed these words of wisdom from Walrus. Can I reiterate that the shame one thinks they might feel in admitting that the marriage failed after such a short time is nothing compared to the shame one will more than likely feel when little sis picks them up out of the gutter and has to care for them because they are a broken man. Or being arrested by the police on false allegations with all the neighbours watching you being taken away in handcuffs.

The real shame is in not doing anything about it and accepting abuse and crying out for help when its too late. There is no other shame to consider here except that of letting yourself down. These relationships don't end we'll for nons. Good luck and beware of well meaning friends and relatives who say, "c'mon... . give it a chance". They just don't know. And better still, in 2 years or 5 years time they won't believe you when you tell them about your life in someone's emotional hell.

[mywifecrazy]

DO NOT... . I REPEAT DO NOT... . AND AGAIN DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH THIS WOMAN!  You will only be punishing yourself and and children you have with her. You already have (1) child and that is HER!

Get out NOW while you can or you'll be on here 20 years from now posting like me about your CRAZY BPDxw and all the hurtful things she does to your kids.

Trust me GET OUT! There is no shame in it. Be glad you found out so early. For Gods sake man, this was your WEDDING NIGHT! What she just showed you was a blessing in disguise. It's only the Tip of the Iceberg. Turn your ship (life) in another direction or your going to end up floating in the sea clinging to life preserver wondering what the hell just happened to your life!

God Blessed you with this window into what your future life will be... .

[SoWhat]

Thanks for the help, guys.

I don't want to stick the fork in this relationship yet. However, I realize that I need to be serious about the possibility and consider ways to handle the fallout.

The next morning, after getting upset again, she said "Let's just erase last night and pretend it didn't happen." And normally I'd blabber on about how we can't erase anything, we need to use things to grow from, etc etc... . but I just didn't have the energy.  I said "yeah, let's erase it."

But how do you erase that?

I'd seen the rage in her eyes before - the sea storm of anger and fear and hurt - but I'd never seen her go after my family before. I'd seen her become extremely irrational before, but never to the point of interpreting an unquestionably kind text message to be a personal attack. So when she said, despondently, that she'd actually been a terrible wife to her ex-husband (the story had just been that he was simply a cheating a-hole), I thought to myself "Like this, all the time?"

We laugh together, listen to music together, and truly love each other... . when she's not raging. How do I tell her that "help" doesn't always mean loading up on SSRIs? How do I help her honestly look inside herself? And what does my choice to be with her mean about me?

[findingmyselfagain]

SoWhat,

It's so good that you're examining the relationship and your needs. I rushed in headfirst with my former fiance. It ended very shortly after she went out with a co-worker just 3 days after our wedding shower. You know, when you're supposed to be HAPPY about marrying someone despite some normal sense of nervousness. It took a lot of processing to realize that the dramatic dynamic didn't have anything to do with me. She mentioned "triggers" while we were dating, but I had no idea about BPD and was naive thinking love conquers all. In my history I haven't been comfortable with healthy, drama-free women for whatever reason... . likely childhood issues, but it doesn't really matter since I can make choices as an adult.

I've been dating someone for about 3 months now. I'm treading very carefully. She seems a little sensitive and has had problems with anxiety. She's also very religious. I was grilled a few times before I let her know I needed her to be comfortable with my spirituality, or we would need to stop seeing each other. Since then things seem to have improved. She's going to counseling and taking meds so I don't think I can ask for much more than that. If I start to feel like the r/s is more work than it should be I think I'll be able to move on because I have moved slowly. Time will tell.

I wish you the best as you examine your relationship. Perhaps it's work taking a shot at something healthier with her, but it just may not work. Why would you want to spend the rest of your life spinning your wheels, or tortured, or at best in an "ok" relationship? It's been hard for me, but I'm trying to let go of the soulmate I thought I had. It's not easy, but in a lot of ways I feel like I've been born again, truly knowing who I am and being able to stand up for myself.

[Wrongturn1]

Re: telling here SSRI's are not the only option, you can tell her that there non-drug therapy methods out there [DBT, but no need to mention that specifically since she might google it and hone in on the "accusation" that she has BPD] that teach people the skills they need to get their thoughts and emotions under control.  Focus on the "skills training" aspect as opposed to SSRI's.

... . and... . everyone else is right: do not have kids with this woman for the foreseeable future (as in YEARS down the road, after she has been through treatment and demonstrates years of recovered behavior).  Knowing what you know, it would be abusive to your future children for you to do otherwise.

[maxsterling]

Wow.  That's scary stuff.  If you don't mind me asking a personal question, how did you get comfortable enough to marry her?  I'm assuming she had some bad rages before this.  Did she seems to have things under control for a long time, and you felt comfortable and stable?  I'm in a similar situation - with a woman whom I would maybe want to marry, but the BPD has worn me out, and I worry that the moment I say "I do" the disregulation will ramp up again.  I also face the push to have kids - but my GF is 38, and If I say "I want to see you stable for a year first", she will tell me a big F-U, and probably get stuff thrown at me.

[SoWhat]

I'm not sure how I got comfortable enough to marry her. She had rages, and bad ones at that, but I stuck with it despite realizing that things weren't going to get better without her really wanting them to get better. And there was not much from her to indicate that she wanted to change.

It makes me ask myself some hard questions. We so often think about our partners' BPD, their actions, how to protect ourselves or draw boundaries; but a little self-reflection should never be ignored. What drew us and kept us with them in the first place? None of us were totally blindsided after the first few warning signs.

[SoWhat]

Oh, and my BPDwife is 33 now and feeling the biological clock too. When I tell her I'm serious about her getting help before we conceive, I feel sure that she will throw a massive fit and maybe actually leave. And on to the next one she'd go... .

[an0ught]

Hi SoWhat,

In the morning, she said she'd be willing to get help (though she stressed that she didn't think she needed it) but that she knows that they'd just recommend anti-depressants and she'd get back on them and live like a zombie. She says this is what happened when her ex-husband told her the same thing.

She also says that every man in her life lies to her by telling her she's got anger problems.

I'm too scared to tell her I think she's BPD.

sounds a bit like it is BPD or similar if several partners find there are anger problems. There is however no point in diagnosing it and telling her - won't improve the situation much and could make it worse. Medication in case of BPD is a band aid - it can support healing but is not a cure. Any chance she can find a T that specializes in CBT/DBT?

Also if she knows that she has anger problems any chance she would be willing to work on her communication skills? In that case the book The high conflict couple may be an option to support her learning and your too.

[Aussie0zborn]

... . but I'd never seen her go after my family before. I'd seen her become extremely irrational before, but never to the point of interpreting an unquestionably kind text message to be a personal attack... .

That's because you weren't married before. With the wedding ring you have signed a contract to accept a higher level of abuse. That includes being estranged from your family in due course.

I would compliment my wife and she would happily accept that compliment. The next day, the same compliment was I interpreted as a personal attack. Get used to it.