I Found Her Lists On Me

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

It was a new entry, I think, in the bathroom journal. I glanced through it, will document tonight since I take care of the kids while she is out. It was basically a pro/con list of Turkish, saying the stuff she liked about me and the stuff she didn't like. Funny, but the two entries I saw, the like list was a bit longer. I guess this is similar to us making lists of the good/bad things about our Exes when we start to pine away for "what was." I guess she had some legitimate points about me (the smoking for instance, which got more and more the more stressed I got, and yes, I realize that is 100% my responsibility).

Maybe I think differently, but I never, ever "split" her like that in my mind. Well, I kind of have now, but I guess I don't see people like that. I could point out bad traits in every one of my long term friends, who are really decent people overall. I just think "yeah, this person is judgemental, that person may be a bit holier than thou about some things" but I don't focus on the bad, but rather the good, and see them as whole people, human beings, who are flawed, but generally good.

[Turkish]

It was a new entry, I think, in the bathroom journal. I glanced through it, will document tonight since I take care of the kids while she is out. It was basically a pro/con list of Turkish, saying the stuff she liked about me and the stuff she didn't like. Funny, but the two entries I saw, the like list was a bit longer. I guess this is similar to us making lists of the good/bad things about our Exes when we start to pine away for "what was." I guess she had some legitimate points about me (the smoking for instance, which got more and more the more stressed I got, and yes, I realize that is 100% my responsibility).

Maybe I think differently, but I never, ever "split" her like that in my mind. Well, I kind of have now, but I guess I don't see people like that. I could point out bad traits in every one of my long term friends, who are really decent people overall. I just think "yeah, this person is judgemental, that person may be a bit holier than thou about some things" but I don't focus on the bad, but rather the good, and see them as whole people, human beings, who are flawed, but generally good.

[PuzzledMate]

It was a new entry, I think, in the bathroom journal. I glanced through it, will document tonight since I take care of the kids while she is out. It was basically a pro/con list of Turkish, saying the stuff she liked about me and the stuff she didn't like. Funny, but the two entries I saw, the like list was a bit longer. I guess this is similar to us making lists of the good/bad things about our Exes when we start to pine away for "what was." I guess she had some legitimate points about me (the smoking for instance, which got more and more the more stressed I got, and yes, I realize that is 100% my responsibility).

Maybe I think differently, but I never, ever "split" her like that in my mind. Well, I kind of have now, but I guess I don't see people like that. I could point out bad traits in every one of my long term friends, who are really decent people overall. I just think "yeah, this person is judgemental, that person may be a bit holier than thou about some things" but I don't focus on the bad, but rather the good, and see them as whole people, human beings, who are flawed, but generally good.

Which is probably a big part of why we all stay in bad relationships unfortunately.   :'(

[Free2Bee]

Wow, I don't know how I'd feel if I had access to a list like that. Right before we broke up, my ex was beginning a journal (I hope she kept at it). It would be interesting to see what her pro's and con's about me were. I could probably guess most of them. I think the list would also depend on whether she was in a 'idealization' or 'devaluation' headspace - her perceptions of my changed radically based on that.

Did you find the list helpful? or hurtful?

[Turkish]

Wow, I don't know how I'd feel if I had access to a list like that. Right before we broke up, my ex was beginning a journal (I hope she kept at it). It would be interesting to see what her pro's and con's about me were. I could probably guess most of them. I think the list would also depend on whether she was in a 'idealization' or 'devaluation' headspace - her perceptions of my changed radically based on that.

Did you find the list helpful? or hurtful?

I'll update this thread after I read (and photo document it) tonight. They seemed like new entries, but they were her first journal from a few months ago. I may have missed those pages before. They may be new, I am not sure. if she is still 'deciding' on whether to leave or not, she'd better hurry since the lawyer already has the money. I don't think so. If recent, they may be just her way of splitting me gray to keep her nice to me, since I will be the provider and father to our children still, and she wants to keep a good r/s. I think it will be ok between us once she leaves. As long as she doesn't do anything crazy like bring that young boy toy around her family, which means our kids. It will be all up to me to establish the clear boundaries, since I know, I KNOW I will eventually get the late night texts... . maybe even emails. I don't think for a time until she gets settled in her new life across town, but they will come. As I said in another thread the other day, no one knows her like I do, nor ever will, and in a certain aspect, I am still her best friend. If she can make a 2-dimensional r/s work for a long time, then more power to her. If it keeps her stable for the kids, being the Lover when she is not the Mom, then that is best for the kids. I take my only solace in knowing the real truth behind all of this, with no validation for me where I live. That's life.

[LilMissSunshine]

Wow, I don't know how I'd feel if I had access to a list like that. Right before we broke up, my ex was beginning a journal (I hope she kept at it). It would be interesting to see what her pro's and con's about me were. I could probably guess most of them.  I think the list would also depend on whether she was in a 'idealization' or 'devaluation' headspace - her perceptions of my changed radically based on that .

Did you find the list helpful? or hurtful?

Very interesting indeed.

[Dog biscuit]

As long as she doesn't do anything crazy like bring that young boy toy around her family, which means our kids.

You know her well, but be prepared that she might do exactly this to hurt you, or cross your boundaries.

[Dog biscuit]

Ghe, the emotioncon shouldhave been this one:   instead of this one: 

[Turkish]

Ghe, the emotioncon shouldhave been this one:   instead of this one: 

Hi Db. The kissing icon triggered me into a crying fit... . btw.

(just kidding :^)

You can hit the Modify button next to quote at the upper right of you post to change it. It stays active for an hour, I think, after which you can't modify it.

[Dog biscuit]

[/quote]
Hi Db. The kissing icon triggered me into a crying fit... . btw.

(just kidding :^)

You can hit the Modify button next to quote at the upper right of you post to change it. It stays active for an hour, I think, after which you can't modify it. [/quote]
Ghehehe, a good crying fit gets the dirt out 

Thanks for the modifying tip, still a newbie here.

[fromheeltoheal]

if she is still 'deciding' on whether to leave or not, she'd better hurry since the lawyer already has the money. I don't think so. If recent, they may be just her way of splitting me gray to keep her nice to me, since I will be the provider and father to our children still, and she wants to keep a good r/s.

This is what I was thinking too Turk.  It's a common tool when trying to make a decision to make lists of pros and cons about something, or several things, to help make that decision; seeing the pro list and the con list in writing side by side can help.  I've used it for tough decisions, the easy ones would be a very unbalanced list and obvious.

Interesting in that we all split, and that's a way to document that splitting.  Also interesting to think that a borderline, when splitting and seeing everything in black and white, can only see one of the lists at a time, there is no grey, no comparing; nice metaphor for the pathology.

Gotta be a little good to know her pro list for you is longer!

[Turkish]

if she is still 'deciding' on whether to leave or not, she'd better hurry since the lawyer already has the money. I don't think so. If recent, they may be just her way of splitting me gray to keep her nice to me, since I will be the provider and father to our children still, and she wants to keep a good r/s.

This is what I was thinking too Turk.  It's a common tool when trying to make a decision to make lists of pros and cons about something, or several things, to help make that decision; seeing the pro list and the con list in writing side by side can help.  I've used it for tough decisions, the easy ones would be a very unbalanced list and obvious.

Interesting in that we all split, and that's a way to document that splitting.  Also interesting to think that a borderline, when splitting and seeing everything in black and white, can only see one of the lists at a time, there is no grey, no comparing; nice metaphor for the pathology.

Gotta be a little good to know her pro list for you is longer!

Yes, but not good enough (good that I don't get it so horribly as some of you here, for that I am thankful). It is the one thing: The Love Addiction (on the surface) which keeps her from me. I think that is why she let me hug her the month I thought we could work it out, but she didn;t let me kiss her. She was/is still mad at me, and also in her mind, probably thought she would be cheating on her boy toy. So wrong, but I think I "get" it.

[seeking balance]

I'll update this thread after I read (and photo document it) tonight.

Curious as to why you are making a copy of this? 

Legally, it likely won't serve you - unless you are in a legal system very different than what I have seen discussed on the legal board.

Emotionally, this is classic black/white thinking of BPD - you are on a BPD bpdfamily.com support group, so kinda expected really.

Also a way many people evaluate a relationship. 

What is going on with you emotionally Turkish?

I read my exes journal too - not something I am proud of.  I took it into my own T because I was so shocked and hurt at the black/white (I was a savior on one page and the devil on another... . often).  Ultimately, I had to accept this as BPD and detach. 

Can you detach enough to see this as classic BPD behavior and depersonalize it?  I know that may bring up a world of hurt for you - it certainly did me.

[myself]

It was probably frustrating for her to see that she sees you as more good than bad. It could be an incomplete list if she gave up on it. If you're detaching, reading those things may hold you back. Your own list matters most, doesn't it? What is good and bad for you? Where are your gray areas?

[Turkish]

I'll update this thread after I read (and photo document it) tonight.

Curious as to why you are making a copy of this?  

Legally, it likely won't serve you - unless you are in a legal system very different than what I have seen discussed on the legal board.

Emotionally, this is classic black/white thinking of BPD - you are on a BPD bpdfamily.com support group, so kinda expected really.

Also a way many people evaluate a relationship.  

What is going on with you emotionally Turkish?

I read my exes journal too - not something I am proud of.  I took it into my own T because I was so shocked and hurt at the black/white (I was a savior on one page and the devil on another... . often).  Ultimately, I had to accept this as BPD and detach.  

Can you detach enough to see this as classic BPD behavior and depersonalize it?  I know that may bring up a world of hurt for you - it certainly did me.

Hi sb. I see what you are saying. It is like I copied what she wrote to the guy, emailed it to myself, read a few excerpts to my T (she saw him twice), and then haven't thought much about them since then. It is a record to remind myself that I wasn't crazy, and that this was not a normal r/s and breakup, should I ever revisit the FOG later on.

Alternatively, should I ever decide to write a book, it would make for good material. Not to laugh at, or even to quote, but something for a perspective. I don't know. Yes, I realize it is still me attaching to a shadow.

It is also data to be analyzed, to know what is going on in her head, to keep me and the kids safe, and to triangulate around what she might be doing. I'm an engineer, almost can't help it :^)

[Turkish]

It was probably frustrating for her to see that she sees you as more good than bad. It could be an incomplete list if she gave up on it. If you're detaching, reading those things may hold you back. Your own list matters most, doesn't it? What is good and bad for you? Where are your gray areas?

At this point, I can't think of much good. My gray area overall is that she is a decent mother most of the time, even if a helicopter/anxious mother. That waxes and wanes. I've gotten her to loosen up a lot about some things. She gets that from her mom. No parent is perfect, but the ups and downs remind me too much of my mother. I might be projecting my own feelings on my son's r/s with her. But I know how it was (I get along fine with my mom now. I moved out of her house the summer of her breakdown/therapy/medication/repressed molestation being manifested 24 years ago). That is, the splitting, emotional dysregulation-depression and anger.

[PacifistMom]

Maybe I think differently, but I never, ever "split" her like that in my mind. Well, I kind of have now, but I guess I don't see people like that. I could point out bad traits in every one of my long term friends, who are really decent people overall. I just think "yeah, this person is judgemental, that person may be a bit holier than thou about some things" but I don't focus on the bad, but rather the good, and see them as whole people, human beings, who are flawed, but generally good.

Wow. This is the best explanation I've ever seen of the biggest difference between how my uBPDh and I see people. So ... . validating! Thank you.

[seeking balance]

It is also data to be analyzed, to know what is going on in her head, to keep me and the kids safe, and to triangulate around what she might be doing. I'm an engineer, almost can't help it :^)

Turkish, what do you mean about keeping the kids safe?  I mean, you are choosing to still live in the same house, I don't think there is any legal paperwork filed (I apologize if I am wrong on this, sincerely).

I am one of the most analytical people on this forum, so I can totally appreciate this aspect in you.  I have a challenge for you that might help you detach... . DBT - what do you know about it?  I found that once I totally  understood the treatment, I could understand the disorder, thus I could protect myself and any others.

You seem a bit stuck, I get it.  Mine cheated, lied the whole 9 yards... . it was hard for me to wrap my head around too. 

Black/white thinking - this is a hallmark of the disorder.  Have you read "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"?  the title alone sums it up.  But very worth really reading to understand.

Her bahavior is not about you, however, it is pretty typical for a pwBPD.  Since you are an engineer, take some time to really look into DBT, Linehan and even some of the youtube videos from Tami Green.  Try accepting this a fact, once you do - it does start to fall into a logical place. 

[bewildered2]

she has BPD... . which explains her horrible behavior towards you.

when you understand this, it will become easier for you.

ask yourself why you put up with this crap.

turn your skills of analysis on you... .

surely, you are worth more than this!

aren't you?

b2

ps think hard... . about you.

[goldylamont]

... . It is a record to remind myself that I wasn't crazy, and that this was not a normal r/s and breakup, should I ever revisit the FOG later on.

Alternatively, should I ever decide to write a book, it would make for good material. Not to laugh at, or even to quote, but something for a perspective. I don't know. Yes, I realize it is still me attaching to a shadow.

It is also data to be analyzed, to know what is going on in her head, to keep me and the kids safe, and to triangulate around what she might be doing. I'm an engineer, almost can't help it :^)

i can relate to this. i broke my ex's privacy twice to find out what was really going on. i was nervous about it and it's something i've only done in this situation. i can say now though that i am so glad that i did this. i deserved to know what she was up to regardless of what deceptions she was pulling. obviously me doing this meant the r/s wouldn't work, but finding things out did help me realize i wasn't crazy, that i was with someone who was dishonest, disordered. i shy away from telling others to do this... . but it's hard sometimes reading posts on the Undecided board of people talking about their SO's and sometimes i want to say "you might think different if you read their emails!", . don't worry, not recommending it for others, but turkish i do understand how you get some value out of this although it is hurtful to read sometimes.

[Turkish]

I had more time, and I think the list was from a few months ago.

On the pro side: Turkish loves me unconditionally.

On the con side: he doesn't show that he loves me.

So there's the disorder there... . though I understand what she is really saying... . she knows, but I wasn't doing enough of the teen things to reinforce her self esteem, especially when triggered.

The new entry was just her lamenting how she was not ready for the r/s, and sad how the hurt an awesome guy (may e shed feel less guilt were I a loser? 

Very sad. At least she's not calling the cops or trying to take my kids... .