How to get rid of the fantasy?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

To me, that's the question: how did it happen?  Why was I vulnerable to this "most intoxicating of fantasies."

Though I can't answer for you, I can certainly give you a glimpse of how I got in this mess, and maybe how others might have.

I *knew* I wasn't her "first choice." It hurt. But at the time, I truly believed I deserved no better. I still struggle with this. Perhaps it's true. (Again, not everyone's a winner.)

But I should say, there's one opportunity I missed while with her. It still bothers me. A month after finding out about her emotional affair, there was this woman at a get-together. We danced, and she... .got close. I could have cheated. I don't know why I didn't. She was active, vigorous and above all, FUN to dance with. Some dancers feel weightless when they move with you. Others you can feel the kinetic energy they throw around, I prefer the latter, and that was her. She was my sister's work colleague and apparently used to work as a body-guard, it would explain why she was in such great shape. Here was this woman, who I never met before, who was attractive and strong, touching me and welcoming my hands on her. There wasn't going to be a "call you," and she knew that. I don't think she much cared.

I hate to say it, but I should have cheated. I may have felt bad for a little while, but it would have been good for my mental health in the long run. Sometimes, forgiveness and being "the better person" is overrated. At the very least, I'd have a sweet memory to hold on to when things inevitably got worse with my BPDSO. Might have even compelled me to leave her sooner. If only out of guilt.

It was a fun and wonderful evening for me though. Not sure if another opportunity like that will come around. C'est la vie.

[Vatz]

To me, that's the question: how did it happen?  Why was I vulnerable to this "most intoxicating of fantasies."

Though I can't answer for you, I can certainly give you a glimpse of how I got in this mess, and maybe how others might have.

I *knew* I wasn't her "first choice." It hurt. But at the time, I truly believed I deserved no better. I still struggle with this. Perhaps it's true. (Again, not everyone's a winner.)

But I should say, there's one opportunity I missed while with her. It still bothers me. A month after finding out about her emotional affair, there was this woman at a get-together. We danced, and she... .got close. I could have cheated. I don't know why I didn't. She was active, vigorous and above all, FUN to dance with. Some dancers feel weightless when they move with you. Others you can feel the kinetic energy they throw around, I prefer the latter, and that was her. She was my sister's work colleague and apparently used to work as a body-guard, it would explain why she was in such great shape. Here was this woman, who I never met before, who was attractive and strong, touching me and welcoming my hands on her. There wasn't going to be a "call you," and she knew that. I don't think she much cared.

I hate to say it, but I should have cheated. I may have felt bad for a little while, but it would have been good for my mental health in the long run. Sometimes, forgiveness and being "the better person" is overrated. At the very least, I'd have a sweet memory to hold on to when things inevitably got worse with my BPDSO. Might have even compelled me to leave her sooner. If only out of guilt.

It was a fun and wonderful evening for me though. Not sure if another opportunity like that will come around. C'est la vie.

[Blimblam]

I remember in the relationship I talked about building trust and all that kind of stuff to build the foundations of a solid relationship because I had already thought I had found the one with her. Then durring a very traumatic experience she had me make her promises the truama bond and devaluing imprints them into so many repressed memories.  But the fantasy started before that.  It was like the fantasy girl I dreamed of my entire life came to life and it was her. She became the living embodiment of everything I never even knew I wanted or needed. She was the keystone to feeling everything I had ever seeked in my fantasies.

It's not so much as letting go of the fantasy of her but letting go of your own personal fantasies hopes and dreams.  Letting go of preconceived notions of what anything is. Who you think you are and how you like to think of yourself.  It's not just our own fantasy we created it the fantasy we have internalized from the media and authority figures and culture.  The aspect of each of these fantasies that crest the collage of our identity  it's that feeling of belonging. That's what the borderline provides that imprints on every level of our false self the feeling of belonging. 

[Infared]

Quoting eagle:

"As for me, it's still hard to fathom that the person I held in such high esteem, thought to be so extremely faithful and great. Turned out to be even lesser than the worst of my exes.

I always have these moments of doubt, and think why can't I be the hero? And why or how could she do such a thing to me? And we think about being with them again, but we know for a very fact, that it can never work. The pain they caused is so very irreversible, especially the cheating and lying."

EXACTLY what I lived through. Intellectually I know and grasp every morsel.

BUT. (LOL!). ... .the fantasy still lives within me.

I am going to try Bewildered's idea of making a list and adding to it. Putting pen to paper may help. There is something spiritual about that process.

I don't have any fake police reports to reread! Thanks for that chiefsalsa... .it let's me know that I guess  got off easier than some... .

[trappedinlove]

I realized today that the only thing that is keeping me attached at all is this persistent fantasy that one day I could have a real, lasting, committed relationship with this person.  The thing is:

1) I know this could never happen

2) I don't actually want it to happen in my logical mind, because I know that even if it could, we would fight constantly in a nasty manner, I would be belittled, and she would be unfaithful. This has proven the case with her over and over again.

Here's the thing: if this fantasy actually presented itself in real life, I wouldn't accept it.  BUT every now and then the fantasy pops into my head, and I am flooded with emotion, and this is when I have setbacks.

My question is: what does it take to extinguish this type of fantasy?  Knowing that it can't and wouldn't work and that truthfully I wouldn't even try to make it work if I could somehow is still not enough to make it go away.  The emotional hold this person has taken on my life is very strong and completely illogical, and I cannot seem to fight it off.  I'm hoping for others' thoughts on this. 

Thank you. 

BnS, Stay in the present.

You mentioned "This has proven the case with her over and over again."

But you refer to your fantasy of a stable r/s with her in hypothetical terms: "could", "would" etc.

Based on her present (and past) behavior

Do you want a relationship with who she is and the way she behaves to you now?

No "if"s or "could"s?

Hope this helps... .

TIL

[Vitto18]

I've been struggling with the same issue for the past 5 or 6 months now. It's like a head vs heart thing for me: intellectually I understand it would never work, but my heart still longs for that fantasy I created, where everything would magically fall into place, despite all the obvious problems.

Inadvertently saw her & her new BF (#2 since the breakup) kissing on a street corner at a busy bus stop the other day on my way home from work. We unfortunately work together & that bus stop is right outside the building we work in. It felt like someone had taken an axe to my chest. I was holding back tears the whole way home. I already knew about the BF, but seeing them together, being so intimate in a public place, the mother of my children, looking so in love with her eyes closed in bliss, nuzzling this guy's neck... .that finally drove the message home.

She was never mine, & I was never as important to her as she made it seem, it was all an act, it was never real. It hurt like hell to see that, but a penny dropped somewhere inside me. It was as though seeing it, having it almost rubbed in my face that she has well & truly moved on, that's what it took to finally knock that fantasy out of my consciousness.

[BacknthSaddle]

I realized today that the only thing that is keeping me attached at all is this persistent fantasy that one day I could have a real, lasting, committed relationship with this person.  The thing is:

1) I know this could never happen

2) I don't actually want it to happen in my logical mind, because I know that even if it could, we would fight constantly in a nasty manner, I would be belittled, and she would be unfaithful. This has proven the case with her over and over again.

Here's the thing: if this fantasy actually presented itself in real life, I wouldn't accept it.  BUT every now and then the fantasy pops into my head, and I am flooded with emotion, and this is when I have setbacks.

My question is: what does it take to extinguish this type of fantasy?  Knowing that it can't and wouldn't work and that truthfully I wouldn't even try to make it work if I could somehow is still not enough to make it go away.  The emotional hold this person has taken on my life is very strong and completely illogical, and I cannot seem to fight it off.  I'm hoping for others' thoughts on this. 

Thank you. 

BnS, Stay in the present.

You mentioned "This has proven the case with her over and over again."

But you refer to your fantasy of a stable r/s with her in hypothetical terms: "could", "would" etc.

Based on her present (and past) behavior

Do you want a relationship with who she is and the way she behaves to you now?

No "if"s or "could"s?

Hope this helps... .

TIL

Well, that's really the problem trapped.  I know that I DONT want a relationship with her.  It's not that I'm ruminating so much as the thoughts come out of the blue, unprompted, in an intrusive fashion.  I would like those thoughts to stop.  

[thereishope]

I really liked the list idea

As soon as I read that, I just made a huge list for myself

Its funny how easy it was to make it. With several points to it

I tried making a list of the good things, wrote one line

Sex

And that can be gotten anywhere

So really, what are we missing from them?

I so can relate with this.  I am going to start on my list this morning... .I know it will be exactly as you have stated here... .

[BorisAcusio]

I realized today that the only thing that is keeping me attached at all is this persistent fantasy that one day I could have a real, lasting, committed relationship with this person.  The thing is:

1) I know this could never happen

2) I don't actually want it to happen in my logical mind, because I know that even if it could, we would fight constantly in a nasty manner, I would be belittled, and she would be unfaithful. This has proven the case with her over and over again.

Here's the thing: if this fantasy actually presented itself in real life, I wouldn't accept it.  BUT every now and then the fantasy pops into my head, and I am flooded with emotion, and this is when I have setbacks.

My question is: what does it take to extinguish this type of fantasy?  Knowing that it can't and wouldn't work and that truthfully I wouldn't even try to make it work if I could somehow is still not enough to make it go away.  The emotional hold this person has taken on my life is very strong and completely illogical, and I cannot seem to fight it off.  I'm hoping for others' thoughts on this.  

Thank you.  

BnS, Stay in the present.

You mentioned "This has proven the case with her over and over again."

But you refer to your fantasy of a stable r/s with her in hypothetical terms: "could", "would" etc.

Based on her present (and past) behavior

Do you want a relationship with who she is and the way she behaves to you now?

No "if"s or "could"s?

Hope this helps... .

TIL

Well, that's really the problem trapped.  I know that I DONT want a relationship with her.  It's not that I'm ruminating so much as the thoughts come out of the blue, unprompted, in an intrusive fashion.  I would like those thoughts to stop.  

Those intrusive thoughts will subside over time, just be patient with yourself and keep NC as you're not ready for any form of contact with her without getting triggered.

[trappedinlove]

I realized today that the only thing that is keeping me attached at all is this persistent fantasy that one day I could have a real, lasting, committed relationship with this person.  The thing is:

1) I know this could never happen

2) I don't actually want it to happen in my logical mind, because I know that even if it could, we would fight constantly in a nasty manner, I would be belittled, and she would be unfaithful. This has proven the case with her over and over again.

Here's the thing: if this fantasy actually presented itself in real life, I wouldn't accept it.  BUT every now and then the fantasy pops into my head, and I am flooded with emotion, and this is when I have setbacks.

My question is: what does it take to extinguish this type of fantasy?  Knowing that it can't and wouldn't work and that truthfully I wouldn't even try to make it work if I could somehow is still not enough to make it go away.  The emotional hold this person has taken on my life is very strong and completely illogical, and I cannot seem to fight it off.  I'm hoping for others' thoughts on this. 

Thank you. 

BnS, Stay in the present.

You mentioned "This has proven the case with her over and over again."

But you refer to your fantasy of a stable r/s with her in hypothetical terms: "could", "would" etc.

Based on her present (and past) behavior

Do you want a relationship with who she is and the way she behaves to you now?

No "if"s or "could"s?

Hope this helps... .

TIL

Well, that's really the problem trapped.  I know that I DONT want a relationship with her.  It's not that I'm ruminating so much as the thoughts come out of the blue, unprompted, in an intrusive fashion.  I would like those thoughts to stop.  

I still have this line of thoughts emerging from time to time and every time I remind myself cognitively who I want in my life:

People who really care about me and I care about them.

People I can count on who put their actions where their mouth is.

Currently, she's not there. Period.

Therefore I don't want her in my life now.

[Reforming]

Damn charred... I'm really sorry to hear about that.

I have no words to say to that, I'm too young and naive at 23, to know that pain. I've not yet experienced life to that extent.

I hope the best for you though man.

Thank You...

I was 23 when my exBPDgf dumped me the first time... devastating me. If I had known then what I know now... would never have moved away from my home town, my friends and family. Would have become a buddhist (not to be a buddhist but back then mindfulness was not available and popular like it is now)... and I would have see a good Therapist to work through the anxiety/stress and even PTSD from the bad r/s. Been working on my problems about 2 yrs now... and I am doing so much better... had I worked on things at your age... the 30 yrs could have been filled with far more good times and really living... .

If much of your day is spent in fantasy... see a T, and work on getting connected with reality... exercise, learn to feel, check out bioenergetic excersises on youtube... check in with life and live it. While pining over Ms. Crazypants... I missed out on so many other hot chicks... and real people... it made me realize... if you don't overcome fears... get someone to work with you and get past them... you can do it.

Lots of great advice here  

It's so easy to end up stuck. Clinging to a malignant fantasy of what might have been or somehow still be  

I think writing a brutally honest list of the darkest moments can really help you dig out the roots of the fantasy.  

Refer to every day or at any sign of weakness or magical thinking.  

Done regularly, this reality testing can really help reframe the relationship in much healthier way and help you really accept the reality of your relationship  

The next step is to follow the need.

Why were we with them? What need did they fulfil?

Because for all of us were there for a reason.  

Discovering it is hard work. It can be uncomfortable. And real, deep acceptance can be even harder.   :'(

But it's the only way to move forward

Finally I think forgiving yourself, for your own part and the time you spent with them - especially when it's a big chunk of your life - is one of the biggest hurdles.

But it's the gateway to freedom.  

Many members have done it and so can you.

Good luck

Reforming (slowly)

[KeepOnGoing]

WOW! This is probably one of the most helpful threads I've read so far. Can you say more about mirroring, and what that really means?

Thank you.

[charred]

WOW! This is probably one of the most helpful threads I've read so far. Can you say more about mirroring, and what that really means?

Thank you.

From: The parenting process guidelines: mirroring                   (google it)

To accurately mirror another:

Listen for and identify a specific emotion you hear and then reflect it back, conveying through tone and intensity that you get as best you can the experiential feel of their communication.

For example: My little girl comes home from school with castdown eys and says, "Nobody likes me." And instead of trying to reassure her by telling her not to be silly, I say in a matching soft tone, "You sound so sad. Feeling like nobody likes you? Sounds like you had a really hard day". A mirroring response will lead to an opening of a genuine opportunity for connection.

My little one saying,"Yes, mommy. I'm sad. Suzie wouldn't sit next to me today and yesterday she was my best friend."gives us a place to start.

Empathic mirroring is a heart skill, and like any skill improves with practice.


... .

Recognizing children’s emotions validates their individual existence, making it safe for them to express their genuine feelings in their relationship with us.

The mirroring basically makes us feel validated... which is the opposite of what most of us with issues had growing up... we feel like someone finally understands and cares about us.

[Reforming]

I think Charred has given a very good explanation. 2010, Skip and many senior members also have posted some brilliant and really helpful insights on this which are worth exploring

This is my slightly cruder understanding of the role that mirroring plays in BPD relationships.

In the honeymoon phase BPD mirror / reflect an idealised version of our self image - that's the image of ourselves that we want to present to the world.

Strong, loving, etc whatever qualities we most value and want to project. It's not to say that we may not have many of these qualities but for a while BPDs almost embrue them and us with a divine fire of perfection.

For us (and there are reasons why we end up these relationships) this mirroring / idealisation of how we want the world to see us (not how we actually are) is incredibly powerful and addictive  . They're attaching themselves to us because they lack any consistent sense of self and they do that by fusing with their idealised version of who we are.

Depending on our narcissistic traits we not only feel that we've finally met someone who can see us for who we really are (or want to be)  - we feel that we're even better than we ever imagined.

Either way this mirroring fills a deep need or emptiness in us.

But it's not real

Eventually when the relationship deteriorates, and it always does  (engulfment, fear of abandonment, unstable sense of self and all the other dynamics which define a relationship with BPD) they began to devalue us.

And this glorious reflection of our idealised self (which was never real) begins to crack.  :'(

Most of us try to recapture it and the golden light that seemed to shine upon us.

But even if we manage to readjust this mirror for a few fragmentary moments it never lasts.

By the end it's shattered into smithereens and for a while so are we, or rather our false selves / idealised images are shattered too.

If we are brave enough to move beyond the trauma and hurt into acceptance - to take responsibility for own behaviour we begin to recognise that the needs that drew us to them and these relationships can only be filled by us

There are better explanations from other posters that are really worth reading

Good luck

Reforming (without any reflective surfaces)

[eagle755]

The list thing has been helping incredibly

I've looked at it twice today, each time after feeling like crap for random thoughts. And it has helped so much.

Luckily my ex was annoying as all heck. I just deleted the 400 photos she took of us. My god .

Of course that'd be hard for anyone else, but I hated the fact that she took pictures of everything.

I guess my grief will turn into hate and annoyance for her. Maybe that's good

[love2give]

I have been doing a little better lately after 6 months since the break up with my exBPDgf but still have a long way to go before I can consider myself "OK"

This thread has been incredible.  Thank each and every one of you for taking the time to write.  I feel like I have taken six steps forward after reading and might only take one step back when I have my next rough moment.

Thank you all

[irishmarmot]

The process of detaching from the fantasy takes time.  NC is just a tool to help you detach.  Certainly working on the reasons why I stayed in an abusive relationship also helps along with professional help.