Wanting to talk to my replacement

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I made a post about this in an old thread of mine, but I think it probably warrants a topic of its own.

Lately I've had a few dreams about my replacement. Always the same dream. Either she asks to talk to me, or we meet accidentally, and I tell her the truth about what happened. Sometimes I wake up before she reacts, but mostly she reacts by becoming very upset and showing sympathy/compassion for me.

I don't think she knows the truth about what went on: my ex told her that we had been completely platonic for a year when we were still romantically and sexually involved and had been all along. We were also emotionally close - he was telling me I was the most precious person in his life just a couple of weeks before he got together with her. I have a feeling she would not have been so keen to enter a relationship with him if she knew that he had gone from me to her almost overnight. She's always struck me as a kind person and a thoughtful person, and I doubt this would match up with her ethics.

I have realised that this desire to tell her and see her react with compassion is an extension of my wish that my ex would apologise (which he never did, for anything - my other thread talks in detail about the absence of the word 'sorry' from his vocabulary. He also does not even remember things he does wrong). I know I'm more likely to get snow in the Sahara than an apology from him, so when I'm sleeping my subconscious brings up my replacement - someone who probably would respond with compassion if she knew. Probably. I can't be 100% sure she doesn't know, and just as I explained away the warning signs and the bad behaviour, she may be excusing them too. Or she may legitimately see what he did as OK. But I have a hope that she would understand me and feel sorry.

I think it is because receiving compassion from people outside the situation doesn't feel like enough. I want acknowledgment of my hurt from someone who was directly involved. That would make me feel as though I'm real and I matter, as opposed to trash that got thrown from a car window while others drove on. Part of me has even wondered about writing to her (but another part screams NO!, because she would only show him, and it would get nasty).

I have considered writing a letter to her that I don't send, but I'm afraid that exercise would reduce me to tears and make it hard for me to cope. I used to write and then destroy letters to my ex just to get my feelings out, but I stopped when I realised that it wasn't cathartic, it was just drawing my attention again and again to things that had hurt. In any case, it's the response I want. I think one day (perhaps if they break up) I will approach her - we got on OK and we've always liked each other, so it wouldn't seem too weird to hear from me - and see if we can chat. But now is not the moment.

Has anyone else ever got in touch with a replacement, or experienced this urge? I'm hoping the dreams stop soon as they hang over me for the morning.

[balletomane]

I made a post about this in an old thread of mine, but I think it probably warrants a topic of its own.

Lately I've had a few dreams about my replacement. Always the same dream. Either she asks to talk to me, or we meet accidentally, and I tell her the truth about what happened. Sometimes I wake up before she reacts, but mostly she reacts by becoming very upset and showing sympathy/compassion for me.

I don't think she knows the truth about what went on: my ex told her that we had been completely platonic for a year when we were still romantically and sexually involved and had been all along. We were also emotionally close - he was telling me I was the most precious person in his life just a couple of weeks before he got together with her. I have a feeling she would not have been so keen to enter a relationship with him if she knew that he had gone from me to her almost overnight. She's always struck me as a kind person and a thoughtful person, and I doubt this would match up with her ethics.

I have realised that this desire to tell her and see her react with compassion is an extension of my wish that my ex would apologise (which he never did, for anything - my other thread talks in detail about the absence of the word 'sorry' from his vocabulary. He also does not even remember things he does wrong). I know I'm more likely to get snow in the Sahara than an apology from him, so when I'm sleeping my subconscious brings up my replacement - someone who probably would respond with compassion if she knew. Probably. I can't be 100% sure she doesn't know, and just as I explained away the warning signs and the bad behaviour, she may be excusing them too. Or she may legitimately see what he did as OK. But I have a hope that she would understand me and feel sorry.

I think it is because receiving compassion from people outside the situation doesn't feel like enough. I want acknowledgment of my hurt from someone who was directly involved. That would make me feel as though I'm real and I matter, as opposed to trash that got thrown from a car window while others drove on. Part of me has even wondered about writing to her (but another part screams NO!, because she would only show him, and it would get nasty).

I have considered writing a letter to her that I don't send, but I'm afraid that exercise would reduce me to tears and make it hard for me to cope. I used to write and then destroy letters to my ex just to get my feelings out, but I stopped when I realised that it wasn't cathartic, it was just drawing my attention again and again to things that had hurt. In any case, it's the response I want. I think one day (perhaps if they break up) I will approach her - we got on OK and we've always liked each other, so it wouldn't seem too weird to hear from me - and see if we can chat. But now is not the moment.

Has anyone else ever got in touch with a replacement, or experienced this urge? I'm hoping the dreams stop soon as they hang over me for the morning.

[Pretty Woman]

Personal opinion. Don't do it.

Remember when your ex was idealizing you? This woman has likely been told un truths about you. She won't figure it out until it happens to her.

It took me three years to figure out my exes ex was not a sex addicted stalker. In fact, she is a renowned prison psychologist of all things.

I like to think if a psychologist couldn't make it work... .I sure wasn't going to.

Talking to her will never go the way you planned. Try focusing on you and not trying to convince others about him. If he's a bonifide BPD he will eventually expose his colors.

[balletomane]

Thanks, PrettyWoman. My ex had six volatile short-term relationships before me. They all ended badly. The way he tells it, his partners were all either abusive or crazy and he did nothing wrong. I know that he is very likely to be telling similar stories to his replacement about me. But as I knew her too (she's his flatmate and I often chatted to her when I visited) I wondered if she would believe it, if his stories could be so convincing as to blot out her own experience with me.

I don't want to convince her about him, necessarily. I'm not even sure what I think of him. I've given up trying to work out if he manipulates people deliberately or if he does it out of pain, with no basic awareness of how his actions hurt people. I don't know if the amnesia about things he said and did is genuine. I know he was diagnosed with a personality disorder but I don't know which one. BPD seems most likely, but it's pointless to speculate. All I know is that his behaviour really devastated me, and this is what I want some recognition for - someone to say, "Yes, that was an awful thing to go through, and I'm sorry you experienced it." Friends have said this to me, of course. But somehow it feels as though if I could hear it from someone who is in the situation, it would change something for me. Enable me to move on, stop me feeling invisible. I don't know if this is just wishful thinking or whether an acknowledgment really could have this power for me.

I need to find a way to make myself feel visible again, and not some piece of discarded old furniture or worn-out clothes that were no longer wanted any more. I take it from day to day. Sometimes I think I'm getting there. Others... .no.

[Pretty Woman]

Girl I struggle like you. Today I cried. I read something on FB I know is over the top fake but I feel horrible.

My ex had horrific conflict in every one of her relationships too. When we are removed we let our minds take over and assume stuff.

We really don't know what's happening. Why wouldn't history repeat?

[Mutt]

Hi balletomane,

I'm sorry to hear that. That part of you that screams No! is your intuition, our intuition guides us.

I don't know if this is just wishful thinking or whether an acknowledgment really could have this power for me.

Did your ex give you closure?

[balletomane]

Hi balletomane,

I'm sorry to hear that. That part of you that screams No! is your intuition, our intuition guides us.

I don't know if this is just wishful thinking or whether an acknowledgment really could have this power for me.

Did your ex give you closure?

No, he didn't. He sprang the news of my replacement on me out of the blue, when I was struggling with health problems and tired out, and he got upset because my reaction was shock and pain rather than happiness on his behalf. We were still romantically involved, as I said, and he had given me very little inkling that this was going to change. He had seemed cold, abrupt, and distant for about three weeks before he gave me this news, and that made me hurt and confused, but when I raised it with him he said I was just imagining things because I was tired and stressed. So he lied to me. When he gave me the news, it was all about him - "I knew I had to tell you soon because you can read me like an open book" (what, so you wouldn't be telling me if you thought you could get away with it?). Then it was, "I hope you'll stay friends because I need you." He explained that he wasn't able to tell his new girlfriend about his self-harm yet, so he hoped I would continue to support him through it. And me and what I needed? Did that count? Apparently not, because when I said that I needed to feel that someone had my back, as this was already a difficult time for me and I was thousands of miles from family and friends, he replied, "No one ever has your back." Another gem of comfort was, "I've spent my whole life alone. You'll get used to it."

That was my 'closure'. That and him deciding that all the vicious savage things he'd said and done had been made up by me in order to manipulate him into apologising. He couldn't remember doing any of them. So, no closure - just denial and a complete disregard for my feelings.

[Mutt]

balletomane,

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

From out of left field, how do you prepare yourself for that?

He made it all about himself:

"I hope you'll stay friends because I need you."

"I've spent my whole life alone. You'll get used to it."

You're struggling with your health and worn down, that's incredibly invalidating

Perhaps the reason you want to receive acknowledgement from people involved is that your subconsciously seeking closure? You know he won't say sorry.

You suffered loss.

[patientandclear]

B, I identify so strongly with your position. My ex kept me in an unacknowledged romantic r/ship with him too, until he decided to see someone else. I'd gone along with it all that time because I truly care for him and wanted to give him time and space and respect his limits and yet maintain our authentically deep connection. It was a gift I gave him as well as myself. The Achilles heel of the arrangement became clear when he essentially put someone else in the place I'd occupied and didn't grasp of acknowledge that it was any kind of loss for me. Suddenly the trap became clear. I'd signed onto the strange terms where he had intimate access to me and no responsibility or commitment. All he'd done in his view was take seriously what he'd said the terms were. In a way it WAS my fault for not believing his words at the outset, but ironically, perhaps like you, I was following the guidance of "watch what he does, not what he says." Like you, this guy was having me meet his family, was confiding in me and offering for me to confide in him, in a way i thought people don't do except with their partners. But that was me applying my values system to him. He DOES do it. He's like an intimacy strip mine. He extracts what he wants at enormous cost and when he moves on to another town he leaves a giant gaping pit in the hillside. (Hmm, that IS a good analogy!)

Anyway. I think you're suffering traumatic hurt because he really deeply betrayed you, and in a way that likely clicks into other doubts and insecurities you have about yourself (me too).  And you have a frankly healthy and good impulse not to be passive, to take action to assert your own perspective and experience. I DO think that is healthy. The actual idea of speaking with this other woman maybe is the only thing your mind can think of to satisfy the need to take positive action on your own behalf. That doesn't mean it is actually a very good fit for your desire--because as you've noted it is somewhat indirect. But it DOES directly address the impulse to not be complicit in your own "invisibilization" or erasure.

I don't think this step alone will fix anything in the objective situation, but I see this more as you asking yourself to be a friend to and defender of yourself, and that IS useful. You could consider whether there are other channels for you to speak your truth somehow that would also be good.

I never told my ex how much what he did damaged and hurt me. However, in the course of drawing boundaries re our later "friendship," I have stated repeatedly that he takes intimacy liberties and then does not come through for me in ways that, to me, go along with that intimacy. It has felt good to openly and clearly state my own experience of this. He is not good at dealing with it, doesn't validate my experience, has forgotten most of what happened and has defense mechanisms working overtime to make sense of it all. The best he's been able to give me is that he doesn't know why he had to leave me, that it makes no sense; that he knows what he's looking for (the r/ship that never hurts or disappoints) does not exist; that we have a wonderful thing; that he realizes what he does hurts people. We have only gotten that far because I waited many many months until he got in touch and wanted to know what the problem was, why I was so gone. Maybe the chance to tell one or both of them some of your truth is still down the road, when for whatever reason, they are more open to it. But the impulse to not let your experience be erased makes complete sense.

[andintothefire]

I agree. I am in the same position. She and I were still very much sexually and romantically involved after the replacement told her about his feelings for her and she told him she has these exclusive feelings for him and wants to date him (but just not yet because she is still damaged by me and has to wait until she can let go of the pain that I singlehandedly inflicted upon her). I actually feel bad for him as much if not more than I feel angry for the way that she deceived and manipulated me/denied the emotionally and physically intense relationship we continued to have. Part of me wants so bad to reach out to him so he could at least have some idea that something isn't right about what she's been telling him (even if he believes most of her lies). Also, selfishly, it would be so gratifying for her to feel some of the depression I've been feeling these past two months or so. But, I also know it will just attract her to retaliate in some way or another/bring more drama into my life. I feel bad for him because I know what it's like to have her hide something from me for years+ and feel like the relationship was a lie. But i guess there's nothing sensible I can do about that now... .

[love4meNOTu]

Lately I've had a few dreams about my replacement. Always the same dream. Either she asks to talk to me, or we meet accidentally, and I tell her the truth about what happened. Sometimes I wake up before she reacts, but mostly she reacts by becoming very upset and showing sympathy/compassion for me.

Has anyone else ever got in touch with a replacement, or experienced this urge? I'm hoping the dreams stop soon as they hang over me for the morning.

Hi balletomane -

I am a couple years out now (divorced from xhwBPD). Ex was undiagnosed.

He was also engaged very quickly, I do not know if he eventually married.

Although initially I worried for her (esp. if she had children) I realized that it's really none of my business. I think that if she had reached out to me I might have asked her to wait and see if he revealed some of the abusive tendencies - but the truth is I don't know how other people respond to abuse. I think some may accept some types of abuse (verbal / emotional), as we all have differing tolerance levels depending on our healthy / unhealthy family of origin.

And the question I had for myself was this... why did I worry for her? Was she not an adult who could handle her own life? Was I truly trying to spare her pain or was I bound and determined to prove / have validation that I was right about how horrible my ex was?

To me, it was not worth opening myself up to anyone about what I had been through with exhwBPD. I just know that he/ it was not right for me, or healthy for me in any way. I still can't answer WHY I let myself become involved with the person in the first place. I saw signs, I ignored them. That is on me.

I hope you can give yourself the validation you need, I think that's success in itself. Loving oneself enough to admit mistakes and choices made, and forgiving oneself.

I think back to when I was a little girl with a very open heart. She was very innocent and trusting. I have learned that not all people are worthy of that trust, and I paid a high price to learn it. A lesson I will not soon forget.

I have a partner in life now, I did not have that before. I was just suppressing myself in order to not trigger his rages.

My best to you.

L

[OnceConfused]

I would not talk to the replacement at all. At this time, she is enthralled with him, so your comments will be viewed as sour grapes from a loser. I am sure you would feel the same toward his x, if the x had come to you early in your r.s to warn you about him. You certainly would discard that and look probably down at the x.

[cosmonaut]

Have you heard of confirmation bias before?  It's a psychological phenomenon where people tend to reject information, no matter how sound, that contradicts what they already believe.  Chances are the replacement feels just the same way you did:  that your ex loves them and they have a wonderful future together.  No matter what you say, it's not likely to have much impact.  You run serious risk of being seen as a crazy, jilted ex-lover out for revenge.  If you really examine your motives, you might find that revenge on your ex is a potent element in wanting to talk to the replacement rather than concern for their welfare.

[balletomane]

I don't want to warn my replacement out of concern for her welfare. My reasons are what I gave in the opening post: I want someone who is involved in the situation (i.e. my ex or my replacement) to acknowledge that what happened to me was hurtful and it was wrong, for my own sake, to give me back some of the dignity I lost and to prevent me from feeling quite so much like the discarded trash to which nobody in that situation gave a second thought. This is about my wellbeing, not hers. I think patientandclear pretty much nailed how I feel right now.

Occasionally I do worry for my replacement, but this isn't really a motivating factor. My wish to talk to her (which I won't act on) is driven by own needs and feelings. Wanting to revenge myself on my ex doesn't seem to be one of those needs, as I see him as unwell and unstable and I haven't even managed to be angry at him yet, although sometimes I wish I could be - I have a feeling it would be freeing. He's miserable a lot of the time and it's hard for me to hold him fully responsible for his actions, which makes anger feel out of place, much less revenge. I do wish he understood how I felt, but empathy is not something he's exactly strong on. So I am stuck in a limbo where I can't be angry at anyone and where it feels as though no one can see or fully comprehend my hurt. I would like to know that I'm seen and heard.

Love4me, I understand exactly what you mean when you said you were suppressing yourself to guard against your partner's rages. I did that too. I think part of my recovery will involve listening to myself more, trusting my instincts, and protecting my integrity - if I hadn't lost sight of myself in that relationship then I wouldn't be in this position now.

[cosmonaut]

It sounds like what you want is validation and I can understand that implicitly.  I misunderstood you.  My apologies.

[balletomane]

Today I tumbled off the no-checking-Facebook wagon and looked at his page. I deleted him from my friends' list back in June, but I can still see quite a bit. The first thing to hit me was my replacement's name: she'd liked his most recent post. I immediately felt a stab of pain that they're obviously still together. Then I saw that she had liked a bunch of other posts, one after the other, and that struck me as unusual - she doesn't normally do that. Suddenly I remembered my ex's and my fights (if they can be called fights - they were more him lashing out at me for something unpredictable and very unreasonable, and me being bewildered and upset and desperate to make it stop). When they were over I would always like lots of things on his Facebook, as a way of reaching out to him, basically begging him to like me. (Sometimes he used to get upset and annoyed that I didn't pay enough attention to his page, so I would try to compensate.) I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling that she is doing the same thing here (perhaps because we're uncannily similar people) and that made me feel... .relieved.

I am going to resist the urge to check his Facebook again and I am going to treat this as the reassurance and affirmation that I've been looking for. Even if I am seriously over-reading, it's enough for me to be reminded of how I was in that relationship, how weak it made me, how I became so afraid of someone that I behaved like a little puppy dog that had just been kicked, desperate for its owner to look at it with liking. I'm not going there again.

[Learning Fast]

I have toyed with contacting my replacement this as well.  My one advantage is that I know who he is but he doesn't know who I am.  So I could send him some anonymous information about BPD and such.  But at the end of the day what will this really accomplish?  Like many have posted he is probably in the idealization phase and wouldn't take it seriously anyway.  Additionally, it may make him think that he is being stalked and that is not a good outcome either.  He'll simply have to follow the path to nowhere like the rest of us.

[problemsolver]

Been there done that... .


this happened to me about a week ago so I can PM you the story and the full outcome if you want


Cons

you look like a crazy ex lover who can't let it go

the replacement will hear your info maybe even agree... But it will soon go back to the way it was meaning your words of warning will hold little weight to the replacement

you will be painted as psychotic by your BPD

your BPD will look down upon you even further 

it looks like you want to derail their r/s but nothing will change... They will still text daily sex... Etc

Pros

you may hear a positive said about you... For example "he told me he loved you but blah "

long story short I only see one positive really and that's just a bit more closure but the risk is high...

[balletomane]

I'm struggling with the urge to contact her once again. It's exactly one year since my ex cheated on me with her, and discarded me, telling me he hoped we could be friends because he "needed" me. The memories are strong. That was a horrible, horrible time. I was experiencing health problems anyway, and when I told him that it was hard to have this sprung on me when I was ill in a foreign country with no family to support me, he went, "Well, I've had to spend most of my life alone. You'll get used to it." The grief made it to difficult to eat and sleep, throwing my health back. He took this personally, accusing me of emotionally extorting him and trying to make him feel guilty over his happiness, as though I could have recovered overnight if I'd wanted to. "Why can't you just be happy for me?" So even my physical health became all about him, and my lack of health a sign of what an unreasonable person I was. I am pretty sure my replacement doesn't even know I was ill, much less what he did and said to me.

Tonight I've been fighting the temptation to check their Facebook and see if they're still together after one year. I know it will do me no good to know. I think I will wait another year and if I still feel that contacting her would help, I'll do it then. But for now I need to beat off these bad memories and get through the anniversary time by focusing on my own life and all the good things that have happened since I removed him from it.

[WoundedBibi]

   today is a cr*ppy day for you so I get the urge to get sucked in again. In whatever way. Do try to fight that urge to contact the replacement. Whether she is already aware of his abuse or not, no good can come of it for you. Unless she is out of the relationship and no longer hoping to get back to him she will not be able to or want to hear your experience let alone acknowledge that what you had to go through was hurtful. Stay strong. This day will pass. This feeling will pass. 

[Confused108]

The reason this guy wants to remain friends with you is because he wants to keep you in his "stable of ex lovers " as I like to call it. You know the one when they need to pick someone again and recycle them for their own personal fix. Then like a good horsey back in the stable. I'll ride you again at a later date. Yea mine wanted to remain friends with me too. I told her as far as friends go eh I think I'll pass. Your toxic for me and that I don't want or need in my life! See ya! You deserve Way better then him! You need a healthy man! Not a broken boy! Stay strong !

[khibomsis]

Even though we are long broken up and I am in a stable, caring, equal partnership with someone who is actually saner than I am  I must admit I still stalk my uBPD ex's social media occasionally. Truth? I am checking to see if it went downhill with replacement yet. Now recently I can see the s--t has hit the fan at last. I feel nothing but a clear pure joy. Not proud of it but there it is. It is indeed a validation of sorts. So I know where you are coming from balletomane. Of course you need to be focussing on you right now, it is a long way up from the twilight zone and I find it takes at least two years to heal properly. I think sometimes of hooking replacement up with woman I replaced - maybe we could form a peer support group ? It will probably never be more than fantasy and I know that the best revenge is living  a good life regardless. I mean, the mere fact of needing to see that Karma has finally come knocking is no doubt a sign that I am not as over ex as I should be. Whether I feel joy or sadness it is still a form of engagement,  not the detachment I should be seeking. No matter. I am not a saint yet. It is what it is. Maybe part of moving on from co-dependency  is making our peace with our dark side?

[steelwork]

Now recently I can see the s--t has hit the fan at last. I feel nothing but a clear pure joy.

Thank you, khibomsis, for putting it out there! This is how I imagine I'd feel, too. I know it isn't pretty, but there's no point in denying it.

Complicating matters for me: my replacement is someone I know, who we both went to school with. She HATED me when we were in school together--was toxically jealous of me. She was a sourpuss, unfriendly in general and especially to the other women. He often made fun of her and said dismissive things about her writing, which he hated. Now they are together, and he's getting her to help him with his novel.   

Also, she's 22 years younger than me. I have a fantasy where the r/s blows up in her face and teaches her a hard lesson about life, and I graciously befriend her, as an older woman, to help her process her grief.

ahahaha, what is wrong with me?

But I will say that in the last week or so I've noticed the beginnings of something like indifference creeping in.  She's a misanthrope and a small-minded person, and no doubt he's mirroring her in her small-mindedness. If they stick together, they'll have a small life. Whether they break up or not, I don't envy them in their r/s.

[balletomane]

A mutual acquaintance (well, a close friend of mine, a slight acquaintance of his) told me they're still together, without me asking. I had some anxiety symptoms over hearing this suddenly without warning (feeling as though I'd been winded, heartrate increasing). This shows me how far I have yet to go in my recovery.

I asked this friend not to give me any more info about them. It's time for me to focus on things that are productive, and within my control. I'm going to start my clinical training in speech and language therapy soon. This is an exciting career change for me and I don't want to go into it bogged down with memories of the past. If, at the end of my clinical training (over four years from now), I still feel this urge to contact my replacement, I'll do it. If I tell myself that I can contact her next year if I want to I will just keep anticipating that date; but if I give myself longer, I'll be able to put it out of my mind. Four years is a decent amount of time, anyway. Anything can happen in four years. Maybe I'll be completely recovered without any need to do this.