What is with the "friend" thing?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Never understood why when I questioned his liaisons, everyone was a friend. And it would get back to me that he would say the same about me, even when we were together. In arguing,  I used to say, you are not my "friend". I dont sleep  with my friends. He would just choke on the word "girlfriend", and forget I love you.  Closest I got was "luv ya". Anyone have similar experience?

[topknot]

Never understood why when I questioned his liaisons, everyone was a friend. And it would get back to me that he would say the same about me, even when we were together. In arguing,  I used to say, you are not my "friend". I dont sleep  with my friends. He would just choke on the word "girlfriend", and forget I love you.  Closest I got was "luv ya". Anyone have similar experience?

[patientandclear]

Oh yes. I think this is common. When we were discussing getting back together, my ex sounded like he was choking and gagging when I said I love him. And then he insisted we only be friends ... . He proceeded to treat me like his partner in many ways, but as a real life friend said, it was as if he has to deny our intimacy in order to engage in it. Mainly I think so I would have nothing to be upset about if he freaked out and withdrew for a while.

[free-n-clear]

   Yep, all the time. It seemed pretty clear to me that we were in a relationship - we lived together for 18 months - but when it came to introducing me to others, she called me her friend, very occasionally her best friend, sometimes her bodyguard. What the... . ? Her family, with whom I helped her reconnect after several years of estrangement, knew me as her boyfriend, partner, Knight in Shining Armour, truest friend she'd ever had etc., but then I guess she wasn't trying to keep open the option of sleeping with her family.

   As for saying "I love you", she always followed it up - after a slight pause - with "in a good way". In reality she loved me in a worse way than anyone else ever has.

[AG]

I am so glad you posted this. My BPD ex tried this ish with me only towards the end. Through the last hospitalization I was a "friend". I shortly came to the discovery when she tried to run that when she said the word "friend" without any female name attached to it that it meant someone she was sleeping with or in a mini relationship with. The last blow out I figured out was triggered from her saying she was going to hang out with a friend on Friday so she couldnt hang out with me. Then she made up some argument that made absolutely no sense. I shortly after that figured everything out and confronted her on it. She did not know what to do and got caught up in her own lies. When they say "friend" with no name attached to it that probably means someone they are stringing along. In my case I saw some of those friends who were blatent weaker opponents then myself. They seem to always pick a weaker opponent. They do not want any parts of equal footing.

[Blimblam]

Yes, Friends without a name attached are guys they string along perhaps hook up with.  That has been my experience.  I hate to say this but I wish I had read my exs cell phone a lot sooner... . a lot sooner to see the truth and play my game accordingly. 

[antjs]

we have been living together, everyday doing stuff together, lots of sex, lots of "intimacy" and she introduced me as a friend. she only introduced me as her date to an acquaintance of her.  i was showing affection when we were alone in a cafe and she was very annoyed of it. this cafe is a usual hangout for her folks. one week before we were in another place (where her folks do not go) and she was all over me in front of my friends. i confronted her with this and she was like "we are still in the beginning to publicly say that we are together." really so why did you let me move in with you, the i love you forever, i am glad to find you and all these idealization stuff if you are not so sure if we are "soul mates".


so sick and twisted really. they freaking know that there is something wrong with them and that they will not be able to continue their r\s with you. yet they are very selfish and hurt you by introducing you as a friend just to keep their image good and their options open for the next hunt

[Tausk]

Yes to many of the antedotes.  Again, BPD is a relationship/interaction disorder that is more triggered by deeper attachment/enmeshment.  So defining an interaction as girlfirend or being forced to say "I love you" raised both the stakes for abandonment or enmeshment.

I made my ex say "I love you."  She said that she had never said that to anyone before.  I'm sure that she has said it to her new husband, with whom she cheated with on me.  In essence, I basically taught her to say something that helps deepen the control on her attachments.

So, yes on the spectrum the Disorder can produce unusual responses to how they want to define the interaction.  

The issue for me is not what she could or could not say.  It's why I was accepted less than I need from a person that I want to be my partner.  Why did ignore the   .  Why did I compromise and lose myself to the Disorder.   Why am I having difficulties letting go of someone, who never really was who I thought they were, who has forgotten me, who often treated me like crap, and who is certifiably Bat Sh-t Crazy?  

[rg1976]

I keep asking myself the same questions: Why do I keep caring for someone who treats me poorly and is so obviously bad for me?

I blame the sunk cost fallacy and the fact that I  deceived myself about the truth of the situation and her character.

I wanted so much to believe she was the person she acted like in the beginning.Everything I ever wanted... But over time I found the truth. It's heart breaking.

[AG]

"they freaking know that there is something wrong with them and that they will not be able to continue their r\s with you. yet they are very selfish and hurt you by introducing you as a friend just to keep their image good and their options open for the next hunt"



Anthony James you have no idea how much that sentence resonated with me just now... . You are correct though. Not sure about all of them but in my case mine became low functioning but she was aware. I caught her several times in instances that disproved alot of what people think about people with BPD. They are alot more aware then people on this site would like to think. Not saying there is not an issue they are battling but they are more aware then people know.

[Tausk]

"they freaking know that there is something wrong with them and that they will not be able to continue their r\s with you. yet they are very selfish and hurt you by introducing you as a friend just to keep their image good and their options open for the next hunt"

Anthony James you have no idea how much that sentence resonated with me just now... . You are correct though. Not sure about all of them but in my case mine became low functioning but she was aware. I caught her several times in instances that disproved alot of what people think about people with BPD. They are alot more aware then people on this site would like to think. Not saying there is not an issue they are battling but they are more aware then people know.

Awareness of an issue and the ability to do something about it are very different concepts.  My ex had some awareness, but very limited free will, and despite years of therapy very little change in the deep down thought process.  In part due to the lack of a sense of self.  In part due to parts of her neuropathways never being developed.

For example, a person with paranoid schizophrenia may be aware that the voices are things that no one else hears, and yet not be able to do anything about it.  I think it's pretty much hell to be aware that one is emotionally and mentally different/defective in some ways, and have no real capacity to change that fact.

What evidence or what facts would lead you to believe that your exes had the capacity to change in the manner that you wanted?

And for that matter, isn't everyone on this board AWARE that their exes are destructive for them.  :)on't we all know that we should stay away.  We are all AWARE that we should detach, disengage, and depersonalize.  That we should go NC.  That we should stop thinking about them, stop letting the past affect our current state of mind.  If being AWARE was enough, there's more than enough information for "nons" that we should be able to move on and put all this behind us.

So we're AWARE.  Why haven't we done what we're supposed to.  Is it because we're evil.  It is because we're sociopaths?  There's a clear cut path to recovery.  We are AWARE of it, but why do we go back and recycle, why do we take victim mentality, why do we wallow in "poor me" self pity?... .

So before we ask our exes living with a Disorder to change, just because they are AWARE something is wrong, maybe we should demand those changes in ourselves because we are the "nons" and we are AWARE, and we know what we should do.

Or maybe we can have understanding, open mindedness, compassion... . for both our exes and ourselves and then we can look at ourselves and recovery.

[fromheeltoheal]

My ex said 'I love you' when I said it, although there was always an emptiness to it, like she recited it because she was supposed to, but it was clear there wasn't any emotion tied to it.  Of course I thought it was me at first, something I was doing wrong, my default mode, dammit, but after a while I realized she couldn't really go there, not even if she wanted to, she just wasn't capable.  Weird, since she had kids and I perceived a love for them from her, undeniably, but when it came to men, not just me, there was a block.  You could say that she'd been hurt so many times, left so many times, that she was shut down and just wouldn't allow herself to go there anymore, but no, I say she just wasn't capable of going there, which is probably why a lot of us left.

And yes, she had plenty of 'friends', an easily broken code that meant men she was having sex with, a flow-through system always populated by the latest conquests.  Better to move on I say, just better to move on.

[AG]

"they freaking know that there is something wrong with them and that they will not be able to continue their r\s with you. yet they are very selfish and hurt you by introducing you as a friend just to keep their image good and their options open for the next hunt"

Anthony James you have no idea how much that sentence resonated with me just now... . You are correct though. Not sure about all of them but in my case mine became low functioning but she was aware. I caught her several times in instances that disproved alot of what people think about people with BPD. They are alot more aware then people on this site would like to think. Not saying there is not an issue they are battling but they are more aware then people know.

Awareness of an issue and the ability to do something about it are very different concepts.  My ex had some awareness, but very limited free will, and despite years of therapy very little change in the deep down thought process.  In part due to the lack of a sense of self.  In part due to parts of her neuropathways never being developed.

For example, a person with paranoid schizophrenia may be aware that the voices are things that no one else hears, and yet not be able to do anything about it.  I think it's pretty much hell to be aware that one is emotionally and mentally different/defective in some ways, and have no real capacity to change that fact.

What evidence or what facts would lead you to believe that your exes had the capacity to change in the manner that you wanted?

And for that matter, isn't everyone on this board AWARE that their exes are destructive for them.  :)on't we all know that we should stay away.  We are all AWARE that we should detach, disengage, and depersonalize.  That we should go NC.  That we should stop thinking about them, stop letting the past affect our current state of mind.  If being AWARE was enough, there's more than enough information for "nons" that we should be able to move on and put all this behind us.

So we're AWARE.  Why haven't we done what we're supposed to.  Is it because we're evil.  It is because we're sociopaths?  There's a clear cut path to recovery.  We are AWARE of it, but why do we go back and recycle, why do we take victim mentality, why do we wallow in "poor me" self pity?... .

So before we ask our exes living with a Disorder to change, just because they are AWARE something is wrong, maybe we should demand those changes in ourselves because we are the "nons" and we are AWARE, and we know what we should do.

Or maybe we can have understanding, open mindedness, compassion... . for both our exes and ourselves and then we can look at ourselves and recovery.

Touche my friend Touche. You have a point there. I'll be honest though. The open mindness and compassion for my ex I've explored already. That open mindedness is literally what has me here in the first place. Too much of it for her and not enough for myself. We can debate this topic for days and I can guarantee you that both of us will bring up valid points to back up our cases.

Skizophrenia if thats even how you spell it(excuse me if I butchered the word) is a whole different ball park. You cannot hold a person with skizophrenia accountable for alot of therye actions that is obvious. We are talking about a learned behavioral pattern here when it comes to BPD. We are comparitively speaking on something more comparable to an alcoholic. The bottle of liquor in theyre case would be the manipulation, lying, cheating ect ect. The destruction caused would be compared to being intoxicated with rage malice ect ect.

When you speak of evil what are we talking about here. Everyone has potential for light. What makes one evil? In my opinion it is embracing more towards the latter of negative energy aka turning over to the dark side. Speaking of dark side lets look at a fictional character such as darth vader. What made him evil? He embraced negative energy on mass levels and there you go he is now evil. Anyhow back to reality in the case of my BPD ex and as I read the majority of BPD are usually forced to get treatment. Have you ever been forced to study something? Have you ever wanted to study something? What happens when you are forced vs want to and I mean really want to? You retain the knowledge and apply bit by bit.

I cannot speak for all but I can see from most the case is the same. They simply do not want to do the work. That is the problem I have. I do not have a problem with the speed of progression. I would be proud and was proud of even the most minute step forward. However they don't take the steps willingly. The court system has to step in or husbands have to say either you get the help or get out or many of other various situations such as what I just explained. I do not by any means think it is easy but these asswipes spread STD's, wreck homes, wreck marriages, and cause mass destruction all in the name of theyre quote on quote illness aka pity party.

Now let's get back to ourselves for a minute. We are aware now. For myself I already explored what you call mindfullness of them. Wasted 3 years worrying and trying to better understand her point of view. I came into the relationship with strong ass boundaries. Consistently putting my foot down and not taking alot of the crap. However as time passed my boundaries weakened bit by bit in the name of trying to understand or be sympathetic to her side. I mean she is in pain right . However let's get to what is so called healthy. The people who are considered normal aka not codependent such as they label anyone who would date someone with BPD will not bother acquiring such skill set. When they come in contact with these asswhipes they say "Oh hell nah get them the f*** out of here". No understanding and no thought of them just toss them to the side. This is the point that I am trying to get to. Get them out of here and thats that.

Let theyre therapist understand theyre nonsense and have compassion for them. Let theyre families and friends step in and deal with it. We have already explored trying to sympathize with them or for them. We have already tried. Seems to me like it is time to try to do what these quote on quote normal or healthy people do and just not give a f*** what the reasoning is for them being rotten. Do not pass go and go straight to jail attitude. They prey on compassion and use it as a weapon. Seems to me we already have too much compassion for the wrong people.

What do you think it really takes for them to get better? I have actually asked a person with BPD how did she get better. Do you know what she said? She said she was about in her upper 40's and looked around an noone was there for her. She then grabbed every single resource she could to help herself get better. She is supposedly cured at the age of 50. She is happy but still has noone in her life. No friends and no love partners.

We need compassion for ourselves man not for these people. Let them nomad it out and leech until there is no resource left for them to leech off of. We need compassion for our families, ourselves, the homeless ect ect. They know what they are doing. Yes I am pointing a finger straight at them but I am also pointing the finger back at myself.

[Tausk]

AG:  Thanks for sharing. I understand your feelings.  I've gone through them and still find myself in your emotional state at times.

And I don't know your story, so i can not judge your ex or her actions.  

I came to the board to understand what happened to me, why I was affected, and why I am still affected to this day.  I come here to understand the Disorder, and then understand my interaction with the Disorder, and to understand why I welcomed and catered to the Disorder in my life.

And learning about the Disorder has helped me to detach and depersonalize the interaction.   I saw that my interaction with my exgfwBPD fit very nicely on a trend of behaviors.  I saw that I was like other people on this board. And I saw people who were getting better and finding recovery on this board.  And I wanted that recovery.  I didn't want to be a victim anymore.  I didn't want to be angry and whine anymore.  I wanted my sense of self to be separate from the Disorder, so that I could live my life free from the Disorder.

Anyone can be a lying cheating manipulative sociopath.  And when I've been duped by a sociopathic con artist, I can usually hate them, let go and move on.  But with my ex it was different. It affected me to my core trauma.  And that's where the Disorder comes into play.  I had to begin to understand the Disorder in order to begin to understand myself and understand that I did not lose myself to the lying evil cheating sociopath... . although her actions were lying, cheating, destructive and sociopathic.

I see you've been on the board for over a year.  I've reread what you wrote above.  And I don't see any attributes in your ex that you define as part of of the Disorder.  I see may behaviors, such as lying ... . that can be attributed to any manipulative sociopath.  But I don't see why you think your ex survives with BPD?  The Disorder has a spectrum but is easy to attribute for us exes if we look.  And perhaps your ex was NPD or HPD or APD and not BPD?  I dont' know.

So maybe our interactions with our exes were different.  Maybe your ex does have the capacity to change and find a sense of self.  I can not judge your pain.   I can only say that I've felt similar feelings.

I don't know of very many pwBPD who have managed to really change.  Some have learned better functional skills so that maybe they don't shred themselves to juicy morsels with a steak know.  And the few that have really changed is not indicative that it is possible for all.  In fact, because the pain of living wBPD is so intense, over half the pwBPD will try to commit suicide at least once, and many pwBPD will end up actually killing themselves rather than really change.  I know that my ex lives in a nightmare of terror and pain so deep that it would drive me insane in a heartbeat if I had to experience it.  No thanks.  

So, I like looking at the Disorder.  I allows me to find compassion for myself, learn about myself, and grow.  Otherwise, I have to look why I became attached and lost myself to an evil cheating sociopath and why I still care.

[AG]

AG:  Thanks for sharing. I understand your feelings.  I've gone through them and still find myself in your emotional state at times.

And I don't know your story, so i can not judge your ex or her actions.  

I came to the board to understand what happened to me, why I was affected, and why I am still affected to this day.  I come here to understand the Disorder, and then understand my interaction with the Disorder, and to understand why I welcomed and catered to the Disorder in my life.

And learning about the Disorder has helped me to detach and depersonalize the interaction.   I saw that my interaction with my exgfwBPD fit very nicely on a trend of behaviors.  I saw that I was like other people on this board. And I saw people who were getting better and finding recovery on this board.  And I wanted that recovery.  I didn't want to be a victim anymore.  I didn't want to be angry and whine anymore.  I wanted my sense of self to be separate from the Disorder, so that I could live my life free from the Disorder.

Anyone can be a lying cheating manipulative sociopath.  And when I've been duped by a sociopathic con artist, I can usually hate them, let go and move on.  But with my ex it was different. It affected me to my core trauma.  And that's where the Disorder comes into play.  I had to begin to understand the Disorder in order to begin to understand myself and understand that I did not lose myself to the lying evil cheating sociopath... . although her actions were lying, cheating, destructive and sociopathic.

I see you've been on the board for over a year.  I've reread what you wrote above.  And I don't see any attributes in your ex that you define as part of of the Disorder.  I see may behaviors, such as lying ... . that can be attributed to any manipulative sociopath.  But I don't see why you think your ex survives with BPD?  The Disorder has a spectrum but is easy to attribute for us exes if we look.  And perhaps your ex was NPD or HPD or APD and not BPD?  I dont' know.

So maybe our interactions with our exes were different.  Maybe your ex does have the capacity to change and find a sense of self.  I can not judge your pain.   I can only say that I've felt similar feelings.

I don't know of very many pwBPD who have managed to really change.  Some have learned better functional skills so that maybe they don't shred themselves to juicy morsels with a steak know.  And the few that have really changed is not indicative that it is possible for all.  In fact, because the pain of living wBPD is so intense, over half the pwBPD will try to commit suicide at least once, and many pwBPD will end up actually killing themselves rather than really change.  I know that my ex lives in a nightmare of terror and pain so deep that it would drive me insane in a heartbeat if I had to experience it.  No thanks.  

So, I like looking at the Disorder.  I allows me to find compassion for myself, learn about myself, and grow.  Otherwise, I have to look why I became attached and lost myself to an evil cheating sociopath and why I still care.

t want to be angry and whine anymore.

Yes two years in the relationship. To my original knowledge she had major depression which she admitted. Then at the end of the relationship which I ended myself when she got way out of control. Actually I asked for a break to get myself together and she raged even more so I ended it. She was diagnosed by a doctor not by myself. A whole team of doctors work with her or try to work with her I should say. She had a second diagnosis on top of that recently called dependent personality disorder. So it is a cocktail of BPD and DPD.

There is no doubt about it she has BPD. You can literally go down the list and check off every single atrribute. I ask myself the question as to why I wasted my time with her in the first place. I can really honestly say I loved her and really believed in her. I beleived she had an issue that she could work through. However she does not want to work through it. She prefers the matrix she has created for herself.

I understand the disorder from a far and up close and personal way too personal and it is nasty and ugly. I know damn well they suffer. What I'm talking about is getting to the point where I do not give a crap about what suffering they go through. I currently still do and hate that part of myself. That is where I am getting at. Not caring about where they are coming from. Saying you are crazy so get thrown in the trash and screw your backstory save it for your therapist.

We are all in victim mode my friend. If we weren't we would not be on this site in the first place. We are victims of our own choices. Whining is one thing but expressing how you truly feel and releasing it out there such as we are doing right now is another. So what are we left with we are left to contemplate and debate internal and external resources and blend them together and make a nice cocktail of healthy in the end. So again I'll say I'm pointing a finger at myself the internal and pointing a finger at her the external. Im looking inside and outside as they are both effective and both necessary we don't have to be considered as whining to do such we just are doing every and anything possible to keep the poison out.

The full compassion and boundary breakage came with the diagnosis from the doctors. Those sessions btw were used as a weapon as well. My sympathy was used as a weapon. My tears were used as a weapon. My added effort was used as a weapon. The sympathy I'm trying to disperse for myself not for a BPD who stays trapped in a world of theyre own creation. I'm trying to forgive myself first for what Ive done to myself. Im trying to have more understanding for myself not for them. However as you can see that is easier said then done because at the end of the day I would not even be on this site if I had no intention of better understanding them. I probably will never understand my ex fully. She is a coward who ran. We can say ok her father abandoned the family and she came from a broken home blah blah blah but at the end of the day she is an adult now. She knowingly has had the diagnosis for over a year and has not picked up one book. My sympathy is wearing very thin. Maybe I've borrowed a page from her book and am devaluing her. If it keeps the poison out then Ill take it. If it helps me to adapt a your broken ok too bad get away from me type attitude then so be it Ill take it. 

[antjs]

life gives everyone a set of cards. yes not all the cards are the same. but we (nons and BPDs) are the ones who choose how to play them.


speaking from personal experience, during the devaluation stage (she would let me know that she is meeting her ex as "friends" we were talking and the situation was obvious that we were trying to ___ with each other with mind games. she said " you know my ex got a new house in slovenia. he wants me to visit him there. i am thinking of going, it would be nice to visit slovenia." i said "yes it is nice. but i think its too much for your ex to handle. i see his invite is a kind gesture of him (i acted like i dont care) but you have broke up recently and i think he did not have enough space to get over you. i think his invite holds more than a friendship invitation." she said "i know but for me he is just a friend i do not know what he is still thinking of me in his mind." i said "then maybe the right thing to do is to give him his space and let him sort out his feelings." and her answer was "i don't care what he thinks. i just want to go to slovenia. he is a grown up man and he should be knowing what he is doing."     


is this childishness or selfishness ? any how it is not important. the point is that she is aware that this will give him hope. she is not acting on how not to hurt people. she is acting only on how to get my fix and feel better.

[AG]

life gives everyone a set of cards. yes not all the cards are the same. but we (nons and BPDs) are the ones who choose how to play them.


speaking from personal experience, during the devaluation stage (she would let me know that she is meeting her ex as "friends" we were talking and the situation was obvious that we were trying to with each other with mind games. she said " you know my ex got a new house in slovenia. he wants me to visit him there. i am thinking of going, it would be nice to visit slovenia." i said "yes it is nice. but i think its too much for your ex to handle. i see his invite is a kind gesture of him (i acted like i dont care) but you have broke up recently and i think he did not have enough space to get over you. i think his invite holds more than a friendship invitation." she said "i know but for me he is just a friend i do not know what he is still thinking of me in his mind." i said "then maybe the right thing to do is to give him his space and let him sort out his feelings." and her answer was "i don't care what he thinks. i just want to go to slovenia. he is a grown up man and he should be knowing what he is doing."     


is this childishness or selfishness ? any how it is not important. the point is that she is aware that this will give him hope. she is not acting on how not to hurt people. she is acting only on how to get my fix and feel better.

Exactly she is responsible for her actions and in that case so were you. There was no outside force controlling her body to basically be a leech. She should be ashamed of herself. However at that point you had the choice to confront her on ut more aggresively and say you are not comfortable with that and tell her if she goes there then keep her ass there because its over.

[Ventus2ct]

life gives everyone a set of cards. yes not all the cards are the same. but we (nons and BPDs) are the ones who choose how to play them.


speaking from personal experience, during the devaluation stage (she would let me know that she is meeting her ex as "friends" we were talking and the situation was obvious that we were trying to with each other with mind games. she said " you know my ex got a new house in slovenia. he wants me to visit him there. i am thinking of going, it would be nice to visit slovenia." i said "yes it is nice. but i think its too much for your ex to handle. i see his invite is a kind gesture of him (i acted like i dont care) but you have broke up recently and i think he did not have enough space to get over you. i think his invite holds more than a friendship invitation." she said "i know but for me he is just a friend i do not know what he is still thinking of me in his mind." i said "then maybe the right thing to do is to give him his space and let him sort out his feelings." and her answer was "i don't care what he thinks. i just want to go to slovenia. he is a grown up man and he should be knowing what he is doing."     


is this childishness or selfishness ? any how it is not important. the point is that she is aware that this will give him hope. she is not acting on how not to hurt people. she is acting only on how to get my fix and feel better.

Exactly the same with mine ( sure it's not the same woman?) She slagged her ex off non stop when we were together, except for the odd description of his bedroom antics from time to time.

She told me that he had invited her to go to Scotland with her and did she want him to book a flight etc for the weekend, stating of course that she only looked at him as a friend. She told me that she said "no" to him, a week later I was dumped and I gathered through friends that they were in fact up in Scotland together. Sure she was single and could do as she wished. Would have been interesting to see the actions of her if it was the other way around.

She has all her ex's as friends, always said to me we'll be friends etc and made out that i would be childish if we weren't! It's such a joke, her life involves a lot of friends, none seem to be permanent fixtures, some obviously have benefits and I'm sure others are there for just support while she does what she wishes when she wants with whoever she wants!

She's not worthy of my time, if any of my friends treated me as she did, they wouldn't be friends, simples!

[antjs]

life gives everyone a set of cards. yes not all the cards are the same. but we (nons and BPDs) are the ones who choose how to play them.


speaking from personal experience, during the devaluation stage (she would let me know that she is meeting her ex as "friends" we were talking and the situation was obvious that we were trying to with each other with mind games. she said " you know my ex got a new house in slovenia. he wants me to visit him there. i am thinking of going, it would be nice to visit slovenia." i said "yes it is nice. but i think its too much for your ex to handle. i see his invite is a kind gesture of him (i acted like i dont care) but you have broke up recently and i think he did not have enough space to get over you. i think his invite holds more than a friendship invitation." she said "i know but for me he is just a friend i do not know what he is still thinking of me in his mind." i said "then maybe the right thing to do is to give him his space and let him sort out his feelings." and her answer was "i don't care what he thinks. i just want to go to slovenia. he is a grown up man and he should be knowing what he is doing."     


is this childishness or selfishness ? any how it is not important. the point is that she is aware that this will give him hope. she is not acting on how not to hurt people. she is acting only on how to get my fix and feel better.

Exactly she is responsible for her actions and in that case so were you. There was no outside force controlling her body to basically be a leech. She should be ashamed of herself. However at that point you had the choice to confront her on ut more aggresively and say you are not comfortable with that and tell her if she goes there then keep her ass there because its over.

i broke up with her and then she lured me back in with sex (not her fault only but mine too i know). from that moment i knew that she knows nothing about love. she was not able to handle the conversation cause it was full of logic and against her totally so she used sex as a weapon (still my fault to accept it). this story happened when we had a mini recycle of only week and basically i thought i could play with her mind games and see who can ___ the other more without me emotionally getting affected (my fault again !). during this stage as they say in poker the cards were on the table. i know her truth and she knows that i know it. she was just emotionally abusing me with such stories or as i was about to quit smoking soon (i set a date) she was like "oh you are smoking the cigarette like you really are gonna miss it. i think you will miss both of us." (she was travelling soon for a month and she was emotionally abusing me between making me feel that we might continue after she is back or this is just it) again, i take or the responsibility for this mini-recycle. i was very proud of what i did until i tried to break up with her initially. before this break up i only took her ___ for a week or something. I am aware of my weakness and i am working on it

[antjs]

She has all her ex's as friends, always said to me we'll be friends etc and made out that i would be childish if we weren't!

same goes for me. we broke up after the recycle over text. we felt it coming from 2 days before. for 2 days no calls and no care, she previously moved out of her rented apartment (which i used to live in with her at) and she was back to her sister's. even after the recycle (which i totally believe is mistake to believe that she would change) i was very bold with her during the break up. before i knew about BPD, i told her that she has some good characteristics but to try to break her pattern of her r\s. she said i am a good person and she would like to see me before she leaves to the US for a month. i said i am not sure. then i called her and began asking question and wow the other face was back. i told her that she sounded like 2 persons and it took me time to figure out which one of them was the true her (before i knew about BPD still) and that she is pathetic to think that i am going to take her ex's role when she is gonna be back from her trip to america. i could see a pattern. ex out and last ex in for the triangulation with the new supply. of course it ended badly when i confronted her.

[antjs]

a quote from 2010's posts:

[quote/]

"Quote

I am constantly floored at how well he treats strangers but treats me and his mom like dirt.

He certainly has a strong sense of himself. He likes attention, and feels entitled to do what he wants to do. Have you considered that he may be a Narcissist rather than a Borderline?  A Borderline Husband would have mentioned his Wife if only to claim he was being abused or held hostage in some way.

A Narcissist would never lead off with abuse, because Narcissists subsume others to represent their grandiose ego and subsuming a flawed object would also give him flaws and bruise his ego. Mentioning a wife in any way for a Narcissist would only be done in the pursuit of self gratification.

The Borderline mentioning a Wife would be done as an offering to others self-gratification and vulnerable narcissism which the Borderline would then mirror.  Since Borderlines consistently work through their trauma in interpersonal situations, they triangulate and use others to plot for and against a spouse. Narcissists are much more self directed and they demand attention for their "self" to the exclusion of all others.  Thought"

[quote/]

any chance that we have been with narcissists ?

[goldylamont]

Our exes are sometimes pieces of dung and yes, many many of them know it. And choose to continue hurting others rather than do the hard work of getting better, they continue to abuse.

we shouldn't criticize each other for coming to this realization. I've found it enlightening actually over time to realize that yes, sometimes my ex was pretty much a monster. we are all victims for a while, and with healthy choices and time we begin to shed this skin.

If you are truly able to have real compassion for your ex then great. Awesome. What I'm learning is that for me personally the compassion I'm building doesn't force me to not acknowledge my exes 'awareness'. For me trying to put everything on the 'disorder' makes no sense--of course this is the root of the issue. This explains Why. It explains why this person is abusive, and not only that it helps explain why they may take joy in being abusive.

When I read about someone who realizes that their ex was aware and OK with being abusive I don't simply see a finger pointing fool, I see it as part of radical acceptance. Does this realization make compassion for them harder? Yup. But guess what--it STILL doesn't scare me so much that I would deny the reality of it to try and protect myself from who I was really dealing with. If your ex is an innocent unaware pwBPD who would never hurt anyone on purpose, good for you! but please try to understand that for others this is Not the case, so it may be better to listen and learn from those dealing with this first hand before reacting in ways that may make a person grappling with this realization feel guilty for something you simply haven't experienced.

And regarding Narcissism--i feel like the N word is pulled out anytime someone refers to some of the worst behaviors a pwBPD may have. But the way it is expressed is that somehow a pwBPD isn't capable of being 'evil' and be aware of it. In this case, they have to be NPD. Perhaps they are comorbid. However I think many of us here know our exes behavior well enough to know whether they were more narcissistic or not. No I don't think my ex is a narcissist, but yes she does behave like on when she hates you. The root of what I'm saying is that I feel its not precise to start claiming narcissism whenever someone brings up BPD and awareness.

Please read posts from people with BPD and you will see that many are aware and many know what they are doing. That's the reality. And knowing this and expressing it does not mean that a 'non' is incapable of self examination.

[antjs]

Our exes are sometimes pieces of dung and yes, many many of them know it. And choose to continue hurting others rather than do the hard work of getting better, they continue to abuse.

true i believe that at least they cognitively see a pattern of themselves.[/quote]
If you are truly able to have real compassion for your ex then great. Awesome. [/quote]
i am trying to understand what i was dealing with to self reflect. i am back to bargaining if she is BPD\npd but anyway thats irrelevant for self inspection.[/quote]
If your ex is an innocent unaware pwBPD who would never hurt anyone on purpose, good for you! but please try to understand that for others this is Not the case, so it may be better to listen and learn from those dealing with this first hand before reacting in ways that may make a person grappling with this realization feel guilty for something you simply haven't experienced. [/quote]
why did you assume that i did not experience this first hand ? yes my ex personally hurt people. one time we were talking about her ex and that she is not giving him space and pushing him to do something. her reply was "well he is a grown up man and he should be knowing what he is doing. i know what i want and i will get it" pure evil statements in my face. i did experience this. my dilemma here is that npd or BPD.[/quote]
And regarding Narcissism--i feel like the N word is pulled out anytime someone refers to some of the worst behaviors a pwBPD may have. But the way it is expressed is that somehow a pwBPD isn't capable of being 'evil' and be aware of it. In this case, they have to be NPD. Perhaps they are comorbid.[/quote]
narcissism and borderline are clinically two distinguishable mental illnesses. yes both are co-morbid. i am just puzzled by the way 2010 represents the pure BPD as a miserable person which everything "is out of her hands" and thats the way he\she is. this makes me to rethink that my ex was NPD though my therapist confirmed to me that my ex show strong traits of BPD. maybe BPD with evilness and awareness exist without comorbidity. i am just not sure and i think i will never be able to find out.


sorry if i caused any puzzle or hurt. i am just trying to understand more

[BorisAcusio]

Our exes are sometimes pieces of dung and yes, many many of them know it. And choose to continue hurting others rather than do the hard work of getting better, they continue to abuse.

true i believe that at least they cognitively see a pattern of themselves.

If you are truly able to have real compassion for your ex then great. Awesome. [/quote]
i am trying to understand what i was dealing with to self reflect. i am back to bargaining if she is BPD\npd but anyway thats irrelevant for self inspection.[/quote]
If your ex is an innocent unaware pwBPD who would never hurt anyone on purpose, good for you! but please try to understand that for others this is Not the case, so it may be better to listen and learn from those dealing with this first hand before reacting in ways that may make a person grappling with this realization feel guilty for something you simply haven't experienced. [/quote]
why did you assume that i did not experience this first hand ? yes my ex personally hurt people. one time we were talking about her ex and that she is not giving him space and pushing him to do something. her reply was "well he is a grown up man and he should be knowing what he is doing. i know what i want and i will get it" pure evil statements in my face. i did experience this. my dilemma here is that npd or BPD.[/quote]
And regarding Narcissism--i feel like the N word is pulled out anytime someone refers to some of the worst behaviors a pwBPD may have. But the way it is expressed is that somehow a pwBPD isn't capable of being 'evil' and be aware of it. In this case, they have to be NPD. Perhaps they are comorbid.[/quote]
narcissism and borderline are clinically two distinguishable mental illnesses. yes both are co-morbid. i am just puzzled by the way 2010 represents the pure BPD as a miserable person which everything "is out of her hands" and thats the way he\she is. this makes me to rethink that my ex was NPD though my therapist confirmed to me that my ex show strong traits of BPD. maybe BPD with evilness and awareness exist without comorbidity. i am just not sure and i think i will never be able to find out.


sorry if i caused any puzzle or hurt. i am just trying to understand more[/quote]
Otto Kernberg called this as the hidden narcissism of the borderline patient.

On a deeper level the idealized person is treated ruthlessly, possessively, as an extension of the patient himself.” even when apparent submission to an idealized external object, deep underlying omnipotent fantasies there. “The need to control the idealized objects, to use them in attempts to manipulate and exploit the environment and to ‘destroy potential enemies’ is linked with inordinate pride in the ‘possession’ of these perfect objects totally dedicated to the patient.

Underneath the feelings of insecurity, self-criticism, and inferiority that patients with borderline personality organization present, one can frequently find grandiose and omnipotent trends. These very often take the form of a strong unconscious conviction that they have the right to expect gratification and homage from others, to be treated as privileged, special persons.

[camuse]

Interesting posts

Mine refused top tell anyone we were a couple for the first few months because she said she didn't want to upset her ex, with whom she was still friends. But she also didn't tell anyone, introduced me to friends and family as a friend only. She also said it was because she didn't want to rush into things.

But of course, I had to tell all my friends, and to be honest I was a bit reluctant to shout about someone who didn't want to publicly make any commitment. But she insisted, and had begun demanding I ditch my own female friends, before she even admitted we were a couple.

After we broke up she was determined to remain friends, I couldn't understand why she was so utterly desperate for this - far more desperate than she had been for us to work out as a couple. She made me feel guilty about not wishing to be friends, so I tried it, but she spent all this new friendship reminding me what a terrible partner I had made - including how I hadn't publicly committed at the beginning. I reminder her this was because she wanted to keep me a secret for so long, and she managed to blame this on me too, I hadn't made her feel secure enough to tell anyone!

I feel guilt about being cautious at the beginning when she was denying my existence, but I know my guilt is misplaced. The whole relationship was based on me doing what she wanted me to do, and her doing what she wanted to do. Why would I feel guilt about that? It's so frustrating. Hoping the guilt fades during NC.

[Perdita]

I used to say, you are not my "friend". I dont sleep  with my friends.

I've used those exact same words.  Told him that we obviously have very different definitions of what friendship is.  I hate being introduced as his "friend" when we clearly are more and people consider us a couple.  It makes me feel like he is ashamed of me.

He would just choke on the word "girlfriend", and forget I love you.  Closest I got was "luv ya". Anyone have similar experience?

Mine use to say it.  He said it first. Then did the first push less than a month later.  We haven't said it since October.  He hurt me real bad at the time.  Worse than what he usually does.  I told him that the biggest lesson I've learned from him is that love means nothing.  When I told him that it makes me   when I hear him on the phone to his rotten ex-housemate saying "love you lots", he said it is my fault because of what I said.  Never once did he stop to consider the reasons/hurt behind it. 

[Tausk]

The awareness issue is difficult.  My ex would move in and out of lucidity.  And in the end, her dissociation under triggers left her actions sociopathic. 

But we had one moment of real honesty when she was in DBT and actually trying.  We we were recycling, and she wanted to have sex, but I would no longer be intimate with her.  I told her that I wanted us to learn to be friends and support each other.  She said in the saddest most honest moment of our time together:

"I don't know how to do that.  All I can give you is sex and cook for you."

It was true.  I should have believed her.  In the end, she cheated on me, because she didn't know how to be a friend.

[BacknthSaddle]

There are many threads on this, but ultimately I think it's important to note that BPD affects ALL interpersonal relationships, and a pwBPD's idea of friendship is likely to be as dysfunctional as is his or her idea of a romantic relationship.  Specifically it is very unlikely that you will ever be able to establish a relationship with a pwBPD that is truly mutual.  Your role will be to fulfill their needs, and they will be indifferent to your needs, and probably (particularly if you have been split black as a romantic partner) devaluing and degrading toward you for even having needs. 

My ex wanted to be friends.  I reminded her that she once said everyone who dated her ended up hating her.  She said she never said that, then admitted she said it but said she was "joking."  When I asked her to give an example of a person she dated with whom she was still friends, she said "my high school boyfriend came to my brother's funeral."  She has had no other contact with him in many years.  My point is: she can't distinguish the common courtesy of a former intimate partner from acquaintanceship from friendship from love.  To her, they are all just attachments. 

[learnandgrow]

To your point, my ex had no close friends. With her new obsession came his group of friends. These are now the people she spends 100% of her time with. That's how bad they are at any sort of interpersonal relationship. Her "best friends" and the ones she spends most of her time with... .are the ones she met a couple of weeks ago.

And they will devalue you for having needs. I was called a sex addict for pointing out the fading physical intimacy. When I told her I appreciated and loved her, I was accused of not being genuine.

They have terrible relationships with romantic partners, friends, and family. It's just how it is.

There are many threads on this, but ultimately I think it's important to note that BPD affects ALL interpersonal relationships, and a pwBPD's idea of friendship is likely to be as dysfunctional as is his or her idea of a romantic relationship.  Specifically it is very unlikely that you will ever be able to establish a relationship with a pwBPD that is truly mutual.  Your role will be to fulfill their needs, and they will be indifferent to your needs, and probably (particularly if you have been split black as a romantic partner) devaluing and degrading toward you for even having needs. 

My ex wanted to be friends.  I reminded her that she once said everyone who dated her ended up hating her.  She said she never said that, then admitted she said it but said she was "joking."  When I asked her to give an example of a person she dated with whom she was still friends, she said "my high school boyfriend came to my brother's funeral."  She has had no other contact with him in many years.  My point is: she can't distinguish the common courtesy of a former intimate partner from acquaintanceship from friendship from love.  To her, they are all just attachments. 

[fromheeltoheal]

On a deeper level the idealized person is treated ruthlessly, possessively, as an extension of the patient himself.” even when apparent submission to an idealized external object, deep underlying omnipotent fantasies there. “The need to control the idealized objects, to use them in attempts to manipulate and exploit the environment and to ‘destroy potential enemies’ is linked with inordinate pride in the ‘possession’ of these perfect objects totally dedicated to the patient.

Underneath the feelings of insecurity, self-criticism, and inferiority that patients with borderline personality organization present, one can frequently find grandiose and omnipotent trends. These very often take the form of a strong unconscious conviction that they have the right to expect gratification and homage from others, to be treated as privileged, special persons.

Hey now, this spoke to me, thanks Boris.  On our second date, my ex said "the woman a man shares a bed with controls his world".  That, along with many "grandiose and omnipotent" statements and beliefs, should have had me walking away that night, but noo.  It'll get better, this queasy feeling I'm getting will go away once we get to know each other better.  Not.

I too have waffled between BPD and NPD, or comorbid, as an amateur diagnosis.  That quote clears things up quite a bit, thanks again.

[PhoenixFromTheFlames]

I like this thread quite a lot.  Really agree with a lot of what goldylamont said ... .My exBPDgf actually said among other things "I thought and hoped some of your goodness would rub off on my badness."  She knows she is sick and the impact of her behavior.  Also, I totally agree with Backnthesaddle about friendships.  The woman she dated before me was straight ... .she seduced her.  Then she met me and we were friends ... .except she couldn't help wanting to have sex with me... .oh, and she LOVED the dinners, lifestyle, etc... .then she reunited with a friend from her hometown who is straight (things were already screwed up with her by then) and I come to find out that she started dating her ... .amazing.  They know.   She is a waif that is a manipulative, liar who is physically abusive after too many drinks.  They know.  She said she wanted to get help, she didn't.  Our couples counselor was the one who told me she thought my ex is BPD.  She told me... .prepare yourself, she will be back.  She was right.  NC is the only way to go... .how do you know your pwBPD is lying?  Their lips are moving.

[goldylamont]

narcissism and borderline are clinically two distinguishable mental illnesses. yes both are co-morbid. i am just puzzled by the way 2010 represents the pure BPD as a miserable person which everything "is out of her hands" and thats the way he\she is. this makes me to rethink that my ex was NPD though my therapist confirmed to me that my ex show strong traits of BPD. maybe BPD with evilness and awareness exist without comorbidity. i am just not sure and i think i will never be able to find out.

sorry if i caused any puzzle or hurt. i am just trying to understand more

actually antony_james, i would like to apologize if the tone of my last post was a bit loaded. the truth is that i am trying to express something i believe in and at times i felt the reaction i got was to make me feel as if i had misplaced anger, or that i wasn't doing enough self-examination. so, i was a bit frustrated. and i'm am trying to find the best way to express how i've processed things.

the last thing you said above raised my eyebrows. regarding 2010's posts--because they are such a good resource and people have gained so much from them. however you distilled into one sentence a small part of the way i feel he expresses things which i don't completely agree with:

"i am just puzzled by the way 2010 represents the pure BPD as a miserable person which everything "is out of her hands" and thats the way he\she is. this makes me to rethink that my ex was NPD though my therapist confirmed to me that my ex show strong traits of BPD."

well, from what i gather from reading stories here, i would have to say *most* exes of people on the leaving board would have to be NPD then. i just don't think it's necessary to trouble ourselves by trying to categorize the nastier aspects of BPD as another disorder. this is just my opinion though. here is a thread where 2010, LongGoneEx, BorisAcusio, even Skip chimed in a spirited debate. lots of insightful comments from all, worth checking out if you feel so inclined:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=223420.msg12420759#msg12420759

and BorisAcusio thank you for the Otto Kernberg quote--this does feel very true to me. thanks!

[goldylamont]

regarding the original topic on friendship and pwBPD. this was something i found quite odd after we broke up. during our r/s i never sensed anything abnormal about her interaction with friends other than small things that come up between friends here and there. but honestly i was pretty shocked much later.

it took over a year and months of NC for my ex's friend/roommate (who she moved in with after moving out of my apt) to reach out to me, saying she was confused and couldn't put her finger on it... .but she just felt "... is something wrong with your X? i mean, maybe mentally?" i ended up talking for over an hour with her roommate and came to find out all sorts of abuse she endured while living with her, really cruel things that my ex would do to undermine her friend's self esteem. things i still shudder to think about... .this was the woman i lived with? in four years i never heard about any behavior this terrible, especially with platonic female friends (i still was grappling with the behavior directed at me).

then, a full 6 months or so later, yet another mutual friend (a gf/bf couple actually) came to me again, saying the same thing. they were confused, angry and at the same time felt sorry for my ex and wanted to 'help' her because they bought into her stories of victimhood. it was sad, i saw both of these women shaking physically the same as had happened to me when we broke up. so weird. i never expected her to treat friends like this, only men she dated. but it was talking to these women that inspired me to look up "is my ex girlfriend a narcissist"  on google... .and then i found out about BPD.

i'm realizing that part of the anger i am letting go of (most of which is gone) also has to do with how she treated her roommate. although it can never be proved, i strongly feel my ex (who was very attractive) used her sexuality in ways to debase and undermine her roommate's esteem. her roommate was a sweet and funny girl, but perhaps not as physically attractive. still my ex told me a few months after living with her that she thought her roommate was flirting with her new bf (my replacement). completely ludicrous, but now it all makes sense. it's just gross. and mostly now just really sad. i truly feel like so much potential is simply wasted.

[Blimblam]

goldy,

I think your frustration with the Borderline as a puppet with no awareness is valid but I think the way 2010 explains the NPD BPD differences is accurate.  What I think a lot of people confuse with "npd" comorbid is in fact HPD comorbid and/or OCD comorbid.  The OCD comorbid makes for an extremely tempermental borderline with revenge plots and smear campaigns  true terror and extreme raging.

My mom is BPD OCD HPD comorbid but she is in hermit queen witch waif all at once mode. She is extremely narcissistic... .extremely. Her rages are legendary, I would put her on the far extreme end of the spectrum.  She is aware in her lucid moments but she is out of control she is a puppet of the disorder.

The overt Narcissist is totally aware of their Bullish they are pulling they are not trying to please anyone but themselves.  It is hard to have sympathy for them.  The covert Narcissist I can have sympathy for they have an internal struggle with the disorder so they are at least dealing with aspects rather than projecting hell onto everyone constantly like the overt.

the Narcisssist is able to self reflect in a way I think is much much more difficult than the borderline.

but I don't think she is NPD comorbid, I think narcissism lays at the heart of all cluster B disorders.

[Perdita]

Probably a silly question. Is there a direct link somewhere to those 2010 posts?  Searching for it through 300+ pages takes too much time.

[Arminius]

 

The issue for me is not what she could or could not say.  It's why I was accepted less than I need from a person that I want to be my partner.  Why did ignore the   .  Why did I compromise and lose myself to the Disorder.   Why am I having difficulties letting go of someone, who never really was who I thought they were, who has forgotten me, who often treated me like crap, and who is certifiably Bat Sh-t Crazy?  

This is what we should all be asking ourselves. What is it, about US , that allows is to punish ourselves this way?

[christoff522]

Never understood why when I questioned his liaisons, everyone was a friend. And it would get back to me that he would say the same about me, even when we were together. In arguing,  I used to say, you are not my "friend". I dont sleep  with my friends. He would just choke on the word "girlfriend", and forget I love you.  Closest I got was "luv ya". Anyone have similar experience?

Yes, some lads are even her 'brothers' apparently one guy will be walking her down the aisle in place of her father.

It's all about unconditional love. They want people to love them for them. The more distant a relationship is in reality... the more freedom they have and thus the more committed they are to that relationship.

For instance, when I first met her I was at work, she used to come in with her boyfriend, I became 'friends' - actually acquaintances with them. But as far as she was concerned at this time, I was her BEST FRIEND, and within a few days she loved me. Now, I recontacted her about 5 days ago... and now we're 'friends'. The more you love her, the less she loves you. The more committed YOU are, the less she is and the more controlling and obsessive she thinks you are.

They see romantic love as conditional, especially when you seek commitment from them... suddenly they perceive what was once your perfect love as being you wanting to control and dominate them. It creates conflict and their 'love' (really infatuation) becomes resentment, but they need your contact as it validates them. Crisis develops... and so does devaluation.

The reason that they have so many friends, is because friendship is less conditional in their eyes, theres less expectation, and it can be increased and decreased with little tumult. A friend can go under the radar for a while when emotionally compromised, but a partner cannot. A friend can get counselling from another friend, without the friend in need having to really validate the feelings of the counselling friend. A friend can even have benefits, and it all be forgotten the next day. A friend can be replaced if needs be because of limited emotional attachment.

A friend can give all the benefits of a relationship with far less investment.

[Perdita]

That was a very useful post, christoff522.  Gave me some things to really think about.

[BacknthSaddle]

They see romantic love as conditional, especially when you seek commitment from them... suddenly they perceive what was once your perfect love as being you wanting to control and dominate them. It creates conflict and their 'love' (really infatuation) becomes resentment, but they need your contact as it validates them. Crisis develops... and so does devaluation.

The reason that they have so many friends, is because friendship is less conditional in their eyes, theres less expectation, and it can be increased and decreased with little tumult. A friend can go under the radar for a while when emotionally compromised, but a partner cannot. A friend can get counselling from another friend, without the friend in need having to really validate the feelings of the counselling friend. A friend can even have benefits, and it all be forgotten the next day. A friend can be replaced if needs be because of limited emotional attachment.

A friend can give all the benefits of a relationship with far less investment.

This is true, and it is also true, as has been discussed before, that they will use sex/sexuality to rope in "friends" only to push them away or even be repulsed by them once the "friend" equates the sex with emotional attachment. 

As an example: before me, my ex had a "friend" at work who was a lesbian in a committed relationship (my ex was married to a man at the time).  They talked at work, then they began texting, just about normal stuff.  Eventually the "friend" admitted to being attracted to my ex, at which point they started to text about explicit sexual matters, frequently (fyi my ex would not consider this "cheating" or "an affair".  Ultimately my friend told my ex she loved her, at which point my ex basically shut down and wouldn't talk to her anymore.  Then the "friend" basically tried to ruin her marriage by sending anonymous emails about her other affairs to her husband and his family (suspected).  Then the friend went off the radar for some time.  Now, 2 years later, they are regular old "friends" again despite everything that happened, going in groups to AC together, etc. 

She wants to be admired or loved, as Christoff says, so none of the destructive stuff from before matters. My ex dissociates from it.  Probably wouldn't even acknowledge that it occurred.  But she wants to be admired or loved on her terms, at a distance, without anything that might seem engulfing.  If she has to use sexuality to get there, so be it. But if it goes to far, to something that might become engulfing, well anything like that will lead to splitting black. 

As an aside, I have to say: sometimes I think I share these stories because I still can't come to accept that my ex has BPD.  I have to remind myself over and over of the patterns to convince myself that I didn't simply fail.  So I go through the stories again myself and share them with you all. It's so frustrating, trying to achieve radical acceptance. 

[BacknthSaddle]

So painful sometimes.

[Vexed]

I was friends with my exBPDgf for 10 years before we eventually got together.  I didn't know she was BPD and while she considered me her best friend, we only talked every 2-6 months and unless it was because she was in my town it was always because she was having a relationship crisis and needed love/attention while crying about how she was the victim. 

Now we have broken up and she had a new guy within 2 weeks but wants to stay friends.  I'm curious when I'll next hear from her, doubt it will be before the honeymoon phase ends.

[BacknthSaddle]

I was friends with my exBPDgf for 10 years before we eventually got together.  I didn't know she was BPD and while she considered me her best friend, we only talked every 2-6 months and unless it was because she was in my town it was always because she was having a relationship crisis and needed love/attention while crying about how she was the victim. 

Now we have broken up and she had a new guy within 2 weeks but wants to stay friends.  I'm curious when I'll next hear from her, doubt it will be before the honeymoon phase ends.

If it is before the honeymoon phase ends, it's safe to say the contact is not going to make you feel good about yourself.  It's painful to realize that someone who claims that you are their "best friend" really knows very little about you and has very little interest in you.  They need you around to wipe up their emotional spillage, and you'll be kept around for that purpose for as long as you're willing to participate. 

The story you describe has similarities to my own.  If I were to try to explain to my ex though that it's odd for someone's "best friend" to be someone who she never sees, almost never talks to, and only rarely text, it would only prompt an angry or sarcastic response and a run of devaluation.  Then I would feel like crap, and in a few weeks she'd just forget about it and be calling me her best friend again.

There's no winning here.