Potential fallout from seeing my family w/out BPDw?

[PeteWitsend]

OK, I've calmed down, but we're into day 2 of me avoiding her.

1) This last episode really convinced me that there was no hope of improvement here.  I know I was maybe foolish for keeping that hope alive, but this was the first time I feel like I really stayed focused on her and her requests and still had it all spit back in my face like that.  

It's too upsetting to me to be whip-sawed like that whenever she feels a need to create chaos to "control" a situation.  I am at the point where just thinking about it instantly fills me with fear and loathing (to borrow a phrase from Hunter S Thompson).  

And after this latest episode where she knowingly picked a fight and it was  all too clear... .like there wasn't even a flimsy pretext of being upset.  I just don't see how I can ever hope to trust her again.  

Where I'm at right now is: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ME?

I think in practice I'd say I need to spend a lot less time with her, and avoid situations where she has "leverage": those are situations where she knows I'm walking on eggshells to avoid chaos.  Where she knows she can pick a fight and I'll be unable to simply say "You can rage all you want, I'm outta here."

Realistically though, I can't never go on another trip with my wife... .or avoid being in public with her for the rest of my life... .

some say to me "Hey, she's like that because YOU let her act like that." ... .which sends me for a loop.  

2)   To start a conversation about this, what do you think of this statement:

I'm really upset about last weekend.  I have been trying very hard to address your concerns, and maintain this relationship, and based on your actions, I don't think you are.  

If the situation remains calm, then follow up with, "I'm having trouble wanting to spend time with you, because it's a constant source of stress for me, and I don't know how else I can address your needs or requests.  At this point I'm not going to keep trying."

[Cat Familiar]

Hey, I don’t go on trips with my husband and he’s gotten used to it. Actually it works really well because we don’t like doing the same activities and now he realizes that he can do whatever he wants without having to negotiate compromises with me. So I’m no longer dragging him along to ride horses on the beach or begging to do a zip line, and he’s no longer taking me to the symphony.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm really upset about last weekend.  I have been trying very hard to address your concerns, and maintain this relationship, and based on your actions, I don't think you are.  

If the situation remains calm, then follow up with, "I'm having trouble wanting to spend time with you, because it's a constant source of stress for me, and I don't know how else I can address your needs or requests.  At this point I'm not going to keep trying."

Immediately I see some blaming and I sense no good will come of that second sentence. The follow up point seems equally likely to be incendiary.

How about something like this?

I’m really upset about last weekend. I want things to be good between us, but I’m feeling uncomfortable being with you. How can we make this better?

[PeteWitsend]

Immediately I see some blaming and I sense no good will come of that second sentence. The follow up point seems equally likely to be incendiary.

How about something like this?

I’m really upset about last weekend. I want things to be good between us, but I’m feeling uncomfortable being with you. How can we make this better?

That's more ideal.

although, the "how" part - whatever the answer is - the difficulty for me.  regardless of what she agrees to, I understand now that she's GOING to create conflict, in order to "control" a situation.  And I think that's never going to change; she may agree to go to therapy and work on herself, but we've been at this point before, and typically once she feels things are back to "normal" and I drop my guard and get happy, I get another proverbial slap in the face.

I understand I may have contributed to this pattern by sticking around for it up to this point and agreeing to table our talk of divorce last April and last year.

A couple people I've talked to said that... .but I think in their minds I just need to show her I mean business, and she'll step into line.  they don't know anything about the nature of BPD.

So right now, I'm thinking going forward I need to take care of myself and my kids.  I do not trust her to be honest with me about her needs, so I'm going to ignore them and focus on getting what I need out of my life. 

she can deal, or we get divorced I guess. 

I'll keep the last part to myself.

But if/when we do discuss, that's my general message:

I've been complying with your requests, in good faith, for years now, and you haven't done the same.  and on top of that, even when you get all you demand, you decide it's not enough and pick a fight.  So I'm done trying to provide it. 

[formflier]

Two separate issues.

She will try to create conflict as long as it "works" for her.  You had a pathway to diffuse or step aside from the landmine.  Keep focusing on  taking that path.

Separate issue.

You will get slapped in the face as time goes on.  The thing is, it will get less and less.  On the other hand, since there are less "slaps" the ones you get will be more shocking.

Frankly, I should likely think of that advice for my other thread... .my thread... .the "effe you" thread.

Third issue:  You do need to show her you mean business.  The strategic decision is "what does mean business mean"... and less importantly "how you show her".

Thoughts?

FF

[PeteWitsend]

FF-

I think she will always create conflict.

It gets to be kind of a catch-22 in my mind: If I'm around, she'll create conflict.  If not, she won't.  And if I'm not around, ever, there's really no relationship.

I had been saying to some people "we just made it through more or less 4 good months, and remembered our last serious fight as in April.

But I was still journaling things in May, and I'm surprised when I look back and see that we spent close to half the month either fighting or not talking to eachother after a fight.

And all the fights were provoked by her:
1) reading in bed to my youngest son, she stormed into the room to demand I give an answer on how we pay for dental work her mom needs done.  First I had heard of it!  When I fail to drop what I'm doing and run and get the checkbook she screams at me, storms out, slams the door.  this is followed by 3 days of not talking to eachother.  three days without fighting!

2)  then another huge fight when she asks me if I want to talk.  When I say I'm sick of her behavior, she threatens divorce and we have four days of silent treatment.

***Good day - I planned a picnic at the beach and a nice dinner for mother's day to which she was overjoyed and said how happy she was and how she could see how much I loved her

3) three days later, she mentions the musical Hamilton.  i say I heard it was good, which blew up into a fight when she demanded to know who told me, and asks if she should be worried about who I talk to at work.  it was my boss, which i explained... .I get upset over the random accusation and she gets angry at me for getting upset.  we go to bed angry.

3) the next day i came home to take our son to an exam to get into a pre-K program at our local school.  after I was looking at my phone to check emails (I had to go back to work after) and she angrily demanded to know who I was texting, and when I told her, she insisted I show her, and kind of did, scrolling through my email list, to which she still insisted I was hiding something and slammed the door in my face. 

4 more days silent treatment


14 days out of 31 were spent in conflict.  of the remaining, Mother's Day was good - for her, not like I was doing anything for me - and the remaining days were whatever... .work, dinner, sleep.  but conflict free.  and this was what I remembered as a "good month"

I'm done reacting to her.  I will provide food, shelter, health insurance.  Anything more for now, and I'm going to consider insisting we partially split our finances. 

no more demands on my time: dates, weekend trips, outings , etc.  I'm done with those too.

any further fights and I'm moving out.

[formflier]

Perhaps you missed my point.

She will keep doing this as long as you "pick up the gauntlet" and are ready to go.

The way forward is for her to "toss the gauntlet" an you offer her a choice.  I can exit and you fight alone or we can continue without fighting.

She "fights" because it works for her... .and it's an easy way to "offload" her emotional stuff.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

regardless of what she agrees to, I understand now that she's GOING to create conflict, in order to "control" a situation.  And I think that's never going to change; she may agree to go to therapy and work on herself, but we've been at this point before, and typically once she feels things are back to "normal" and I drop my guard and get happy, I get another proverbial slap in the face.

The repeating element in all of these examples is a demand by her--for instant answer about paying for mom's dental work, for info about who you spoke with about Hamilton, for who you are texting.

She doesn't respect your privacy and personal space and when you told her how you felt, she didn't respect that either. I must admit that no one would respond well to hearing a partner say they were sick of one's behavior.

Are you going to assert your right for privacy and respect?

[formflier]

Are you going to assert your right for privacy and respect?

And... there is an element of respecting yourself here to.  You don't want to fight... so don't.  I get it that she may get off a shot or two as you exit... .that should lessen with time.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

Well, I generally had been doing that - leaving home when the screaming starts.

It's not always an option though, and when there are third parties involved or we're at a location, it's generally been an approach I don't take.

she generally behaves really well when we're around her acquaintances, though I gather that's because she's concerned what her friends will think if we fight and I get my things and leave.  She doesn't seem to care about fighting in front of my family members really.

I guess what I came around to realizing is that it's not going to be possible to spend time with my own extended family if she's going to create chaos like this; is one thing to turn a car around or leave home and go for a walk... .it's another to go back to an airport and demand an earlier flight while everyone wonders where you are.

[PeteWitsend]

The repeating element in all of these examples is a demand by her--for instant answer about paying for mom's dental work, for info about who you spoke with about Hamilton, for who you are texting.

She doesn't respect your privacy and personal space and when you told her how you felt, she didn't respect that either. I must admit that no one would respond well to hearing a partner say they were sick of one's behavior.

Are you going to assert your right for privacy and respect?

That's the plan.

I don't think people realize the difficulty in that, since "having a conversation about it" is nearly impossible without her starting the blame game, lying about what happened, denying everything I say, re-writing history, etc.

If a lot of the fights were still within bounds, okay.  but she'll escalate things by making unhinged allegations about my mom and our kids, or my mom and me, or me and coworkers, etc.

My privacy and respect basically involves not talking to her, period.  

even relatively happy times recently get marred by her suddenly attacking me for "sitting there so arrogantly" or "acting wih an attitude toward her" or some other unusual, but pointed complaint... .and this is all like I said during a time period I considered "good"... .the only reason we didn't have MORE blowups is because I tried "listening with empathy" and gently reassuring her I'm present and happy with her.

I don't know if that's another trait of BPD, but I've never been in a relationship where complaints or sarcasm was so pointed and caustic.  Like... .there's no way to laugh it off or reassuringly kid her about not losing her temper.  She says things with such poison in her tone of voice it's unsettling.


anyways... . that's my course of action: no more accommodating her demands.  at all.  let the chips fall where they may.

[formflier]

It's not always an option though, and when there are third parties involved or we're at a location, it's generally been an approach I don't take.
 

Start taking it.

Seriously... .once I started "embracing" public scenes... .such as pulling over taking the keys and going into a restaurant... basically doing what I need to do to stop, end, remove myself from conflict... .things got better.

There are other options other than getting on an airplane.

There is also work to be done to "attempt" to diffuse... and give a choice early.

1.  I can go do something else.

or

2.  We can have a conversation without (fill in blank) between us.  (yelling, cussing, disrespect... etc etc)

Don't accuse her... give her clear option... she can connect dots... or not.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

I guess what's really nettling me is that I am sick of even trying, and only getting - at best - a generally unhappy wife, instead of an openly hostile one.  And I've noticed when the "choppy waters" start, MAYBE I can navigate them for a couple days, but eventually I'm going to get overwhelmed... .it's like she wants to push me away permanently, and will keep poking on this issue or that one until she gets the result she wants.  

Even sitting down, with "look what's troubling you?" and going to sleep happy only prolongs the inevitable.  she can wake up and do it again all over the next day.

Ending all of this seems a lot more logical than the effort required to be constantly minimizing conflict for the rest of my life.  And from what we've discussed of the future our goals are not really the same, and her spending habits, while not ruinous, are still way more frivolous than I'm comfortable with.  

That's where I'm at.

I can tell her "rage at me or calm down and talk" but we're still: 1) spending 90% of our free time talking about "our" problems; and 2) it's not always possibly to leave.  Or ignore her.  or talk a walk.