In complete honesty---who were you before the BPD relationship?

[Themis]

Only 100% honesty here. We can compare how we are before and during the relationship to figure out what is caused by the BPD, and what is not.

Personally I had depression before the BPD relationship. I had my own needs.

I did things, I had friends, but always had trouble keeping up with friends. I became better at that over time. I have always been very affectionate and close in any relationship or old friendship.

I do contact close poeple a fair bit, and enjoy D&M conversations.

There were times in my life were I had close friends that rang each other for a couple of hours nearly every day. I am used to intimacy, and doing things with other people.

In previous relationships I saw my partner often, and don't really like distant realtionships. I like to be their best friend as well as a lover.

I wouldn't really be suited to a wanderer or someone too much of a loner that you don't get enough time with them.

I pick people with similar hobbies and interests so as well as occasional seeing friends or doing separate things, I put the relationship as priority number one.

I liked going on dates on the weekend.

--------

With my BPD I found at first I became happier. I had friends, and then I had him as the best friend I always wanted.

I didn't know what a clinger phase was, so I deeply enjoyed the company, and having a companion that was almost constantly around.

It made me feel more confident and normal. I didn't have to chase him or worry. He was around me. I got plenty of time with him. We had a lot of fun.

I didn't feel so needy or like I had problems. He really did fill the role that I wanted very well. He went above and beyond.

Sometimes I felt smothered by him---but I didn't mind. I would rather he did that then have someone that is cold... .  

It made me feel very secure. I wish it never ended. I will always miss that.

Inside the BPD realtionship I became more dependent in some ways. I had needs before it, and I don't deny that. But I became more so with him, because he was jealous of the few friends that I did have.

Soon I disconnected from most of my male friends.

I never had many friends as I was an introvert. But then with him, I guess that got worse.

I think he also helped me in many ways. I became much more extroverted, and over time he built my confidence on many things. He is impulsive and daring--so this countered my anxiety. He taught me to love life more and really got me out of my shell.

All his adoration also gave my self-esteem boost and people said he was the best thing for me. He had a lot of confidence and this did rub off on me.

He also taught me how to stand up for myself, and I got more of a backbone. He helped me with situations with family where they were totally bulldozing the once mousy me.

He really hated seeing other people treat me badly. He does have a big heart on many things.

He put some fire in my belly. The arguments with him also taught me that. It takes a lot to stand up to a raging BPD male. At first I'd go to pieces in tears. It was intimidating. But over time I really held my own, and even rage back--- not helpful to a relationship--- but did help me learn what courage is. Sometimes he'd say odd but encouraging things like "about time you told me that!" sometimes it wouldn't trigger him---he'd literally be proud.

In many ways despite him being the "sick" one he played a mentoring role. I learnt many good things off him. He took on many roles with me. I think that is what helped him---helping me. He could take the focus off himself, onto me, and as far as depression or strength goes he was steps ahead of me-- so could lead the way.

Meeting both of us on the surface--- he appears much more together than me. After some time people see that even though he is more capable in certain ways... .  his anger and other things make him unstable.

The thing I had over him is calmness. I don't have the rages or temper. i don't have black & white thinking. I helped him too.

He didn't start making friends or doing all these things before me. My years of flattery and confidence boosting and offering one secure, loving person did him a world of good too.

He really did help in so many ways. I started becoming more of my own person.

Then after a couple of years the withdrawals, rages, loss of affection dropped me right back down. As soon as I started to stand up, and things were going well, things got bad.

I am finding that my self-esteem took a big dip. It certainly has now that he's withdrawn from me.

I think if we had the tools years ago, and I wasn't making it worse for so long (being an emotional punching bag) that we really had an excellent chance.

I feel that we complimented each other well, and our relationship could be mutually beneficial.

I'm constantly working on myself. I am honest with myself and know that with another man that is "healthy", well I complain about my BPD partner, but in some ways I would not deal well with some kind of totally together guy that didn't need me.

I'd find that rather crushing. I would worry someone like that would judge me. I am honest with myself.

[Scott44]

The main thing I have noticed before the pwBPD and now is a difference in energy and love of life.  I used to be competitive and outgoing, self-confident and always busy.  Now a lot of that energy and love of life has turned into fatigue - emotional and physical.

[mosaicbird]

Before? I was an unstable, volatile, emotional 17 year old living with a BPD mother.  I'm not sure I "was" anybody but a wreck waiting to happen. So was she (if a little older) and we crashed into each other, and thus began years of obsession and turmoil.

Now? I'm 30, but a part of me was frozen in time back then and has been constantly reliving the same infatuation/agony with her over and over again.

Hopefully soon I can say that I'm beginning to grow up, finally. 

[Cumulus]

Themis, your post is really challenging for me. I'll need to read it several times as I keep skipping over parts that I don't want to acknowledge, or maybe just don't want to think about. My xBPDh and  I pretty much grew up together,(married at nineteen), and I know many of the good traits I have today are tied to having lived with him. He encouraged me in my endeavours, going back to university, taking a management position, feeling I had the support to move thousands of miles away. And, in order to adapt to living with someone with BPD, I became more patient, tolerant, and self directed. I don't want to give him recognition for any of the good that I have acquired. I want to put him in a cement box and forget he is in there and that he ever existed. Sounds harsh I know, and unhealthy, I know, and still have a ways to go, I know too well!

[HowPredictable]

Only 100% honesty here. We can compare how we are before and during the relationship to figure out what is caused by the BPD, and what is not.

Before and during the relationship, I was an undiagnosed, non-self-aware woman who was oblivious to her very strong Narcissistic traits.

Now, I am an undiagnosed, highly-self-aware woman who firmly believes that she and her FOO all have very strong N-traits.

None of this was caused by the BPD relationship.   Most of it was brought to light by the BPD relationship, though.

[Blazing Star]

None of this was caused by the BPD relationship.   Most of it was brought to light by the BPD relationship, though.

I like this way of looking at it HowPredictible  .

My BPD relationship has shone the light on my codep issues, the work I need to do on boundaries, my default role as caretaker, and the payoffs I get from all of these.

I'm constantly working on myself. I am honest with myself and know that with another man that is "healthy", well I complain about my BPD partner, but in some ways I would not deal well with some kind of totally together guy that didn't need me.

I'd find that rather crushing. I would worry someone like that would judge me. I am honest with myself.

This is great insight Themis! Could we delve into this a little deeper? Here are some questions to play with:

What do you value about being needed?

What does being needed feel like?

Who would you be if you weren't needed?

Who needed you in your FOO?

Obviously no right or wrong answers here! Just see where the questions take you.

Looking forward to your post.

Love Blazing Star

[MaybeSo]

I think I'm at my core the exact same person today as before.

However, I think some sharp edges have been softened, largely due to spending so much time on the Staying Board. You learn a lot about communication skills if you hang out there, and some of my habits in communicating were not very good. I could get by with them until I met my ex; but I realize that the same skills I had to learn with my ex are really helpful in all my relationships and are appreciated by all human beings, not just those who have BPD.  I think I'm a wiser person.

I think i had some emotionally immature expectations and ideas, too, and through this process, though painful at the time, I think I'm more grounded and realistic and content.

And I'm still just a flawed human being trying to figure things out.

[Cumulus]

What a beautiful thought maybeso.

[turtle]

Before... .  I was wounded - and completely unware of it. And... .  I lived my life reacting to my core wound.

Before... .  I had poor boundaries and was also unaware of that.

Before... .  I was naive about mental illness

Before... .  I was arrogant about my own importance in a relationship

Before... .  I came across as successful, confident, powerful, blah, blah, blah, but underneath... .  I was insecure

After... .  I AM wounded, but dealing with those wounds one day at a time.  I've made HUGE progress, but there's always more to learn.

After... .  I have solid boundaries, which are consistently tested.

After... .  I am no longer naive about mental illness and this knowledge (gained painfully,) has been VERY useful to me.

After... .  I am no longer arrogant about my abilities to "change," "save," "motivate," etc. anyone else but myself.

After... .  I AM successful, confident, powerful, etc... .  but I am no longer concerned if I am perceived this way.  It's just who I am, so there's no need to put on airs.  I still have insecurities, but I'm not afraid to let them show.

That's just a start of my before and after comparisons.

turtle

[Iced]

My recent Taking Inventory thread related to Empathy and Building Boundaries kind of details the person I was starting from my childhood, but before I go any further with answering the topic question, I will be upfront and say that the changes that I have gone through started even BEFORE I ever met anyone with BPD (that I know of).

Meeting the people in my life with BPD or any other severe mental disorder that was left untreated (and denied ever existing) only encouraged the solidifying of the changes in question.

That said, the person that I was was:

- LESS cautious about expressing empathy and showing emotion

- HAD NO UNDERSTANDING on the whys and wherefores of setting boundaries (read my thread for more information)

- HAD NO UNDERSTANDING that there were people who had disorders like BPD (and I therefore ended up absorbing too much of their chaos before realizing what was going on)

- STRUGGLED TO UNDERSTAND why things happen, why people do the things they do, etc

The person I now am is now:

- MORE cautious about being protective of my self in regards to expressing empathy and building boundaries (perhaps to the point of being slightly paranoid and always on-guard)

- MORE self-aware about myself and others

- UNDERSTANDS that there are people who have disorders like BPD (and this ties into self-awareness)

- STILL STRUGGLING FROM TIME TO TIME with the, "Why do XYZ things happen?" and "Why do people do AB and C?" questions

[Themis]

I think I'm at my core the exact same person today as before.

However, I think some sharp edges have been softened, largely due to spending so much time on the Staying Board. You learn a lot about communication skills if you hang out there, and some of my habits in communicating were not very good. I could get by with them until I met my ex; but I realize that the same skills I had to learn with my ex are really helpful in all my relationships and are appreciated by all human beings, not just those who have BPD.  I think I'm a wiser person.

I think i had some emotionally immature expectations and ideas, too, and through this process, though painful at the time, I think I'm more grounded and realistic and content.

And I'm still just a flawed human being trying to figure things out.

So far on the staying board there was no solution for the silent treatment/ ignoring. Acting calm and backing off did not really open up communication again.

As I said in another post there were times where I felt baited. And what is more frustrating than being baited, then having the person leave and ignore their phone or not contact you for ages?

How can you apply communication techniques to someone who is not communicating with you.

When he does speak it's two sentences. I have no room to reply, even calmly. Then I am shouted at "I don't want to talk to you!"

and left feeling frustrated beyond words.

He is absolutely enraging. The goading and then silence is enraging. The goading may be hiding things, then I ask where it is, and he yells "Why are you talking to me, shut up... .  ETC"

That is enraging. It is a trap. There is no way around it.

[yeeter]

I held back from this post for a while, because I really wasnt sure how to respond.

My first response was that before the relationship, 'I was on top of the world'.  And more than one person had told me this.  I was what I considered to be in a great place, confident, happy, and rocking it in pretty much every aspect.

And that the relationship destroyed me, and I have never fully recovered.

But after more thought - I decided that yes, all that was true in some ways.  But here it is 10 years later and I still spend time thinking about the way things were before the relationship.  Im still mourning the loss of myself.  So thats not so healthy.

And if I was in such a great place and doing so well, then how did I allow myself to get into the relationship to begin with?  Definitely there were some early flags and I pushed on anyway (because I can do anything... .  ).  Naivety is a powerful tool. 

So now I am a lot more hardened.  (at least a little).  More conservative.  Maybe more risk adverse even.  These might not be all bad to maintain some balance.

But the big realization was, that I was still thinking about what I once 'was'.  Instead of focused forward on what I want to be, and spending time and energy working towards that.  Putting my mind on living - in the present and future.  That time spent grieving over the loss of what once was, is time lost never to be gotten back.  It was too long (I have a much better understanding now of how people get 'stuck' in abusive relationships).  I guess its life learnings that I needed to learn, whether I wanted to or not.

I just hope I have learned enough not to repeat some of the more painful aspects - because for sure they will come up again in some way or another (life is that way).

More reflection needed.

[real lady]

((Themis)) what a revealing and DEEP self-analysis (evaluation)... .  good for you. 

I think I'm at my core the exact same person today as before. However, I think some sharp edges have been softened,.

I feel the same way... .  I have learned A LOT about myself in the past two years... .  what has helped me THROUGH this BPD relationship is having HAD BEEN MARRIED to my son's father, whom I thought might have been OCPD/NPD but at the very least, controlling, gaslighting and disrespectful as well as ABUSIVE financially, emotionally, mentally and verbally. The "rough edges" for me has manifested in INCREASED AWARENESS of MENTAL ILLNESS and MENTAL HEALTH.

I realize that the same skills I had to learn with my ex are really helpful in all my relationships and are appreciated by all human beings, not just those who have BPD.  I think I'm a wiser person.

I feel that I came INTO this BPD relationship, much wiser than I had entered into the OCPD/NPD marriage and I really NEEDED this foundation to build upon.

INCREASED WISDOM: How I was before: NAIVE... .  thinking that "love conquers all" and that "any problem" that my uBPDso "had" in the past, he would have "outgrown", not knowing that it was BPD.

DECREASED PERSONAL EXPRESSION: I was "HAPPY being ME" and a bit loud about it at times... .  I have TONED WAY DOWN due to the possible effects upon my pwBPD. I have become more "quiet and to myself"... .  I have explained it that I have "learned that I am truly an introvert, NOT an extrovert that I thought I had always been".

INCREASED SELF-DISCOVERY and SELF-AWARENESS: I ACCEPT myself even more, with MORE compassion and patience than I had in the past. I realize that "but for the grace of God" I could be one who suffers from BPD and my compassion for him has also increased my compassion for myself.

DECREASED PERSONAL DISCLOSURE: I used to be VERY OPEN, ENCOURAGING and "even bubbly" around everyone and NOW, I contain my exuberance for life, my interests, my opportunities and "loves" to myself. I don't share them with my pwBPD. I became much more of a thinker and a writer than a talker. He shows resentfulness that I "have a life apart from him"... .  I HAD GIVEN IT UP FOR TWO YEARS and JUST beginning to "live my life" again. It is MINE to live and I will live it without his permission or approval.

[Rubies]

It's a very hard question to answer as my first BPD relationship is with my mother.  I was dealing with the issue of her and setting boundaries on her when I met and married BPDxh.  I protected myself from her by hiding behind him.

2 & 1/2 since his exit and dealing with ALL abusive family dynamics, eliminating from my life those who don't respect my new boundaries, who believe they can still use me as their pinata, who want nothing to do with me if I am not giving.   Things I believed my entire life turned out to not be true.  It is just my DDwD and I now, and our therapists.

Who was I?  The garbage dump, pinata and rainy day friend.   I don't think I was ever anything more to anyone, I don't think I opened myself up to be anyone more.  I do remember times of joy and good friends, and being bubbly and outgoing the way I am now, when I would be geographically NC with  my family. 

Who am I now?  Anyone I want to be if I work at it. 

[waverider]

BEFORE i was confident, had a great sense of self, thought I was worldly and a caring and respectful person

... .  but I was wrong and deluded.

THEN BPD relationship developed, but I had no idea what it was, I self questioned, doubted, constantly badgered or negotiated into a corner, a failure, especially towards my kids. Trapped and depressed.

REVELATION that BPD was the cause gave me a task, realization that this mess I was in was due to my own ignorance of the source and human behavior in general, I was reacting badly and often digging my hole deeper. I studied it, I worked on it, the bigger i realized the problem was the prouder I was that I was tackling it. I learned more about dealing with people, about listening and actually caring.

NOW I have become a better person. I became that person I used to be deluded into thinking I was. Dealing with BPD head on has forced me to analyse myself and realize I was falling short in many areas but was getting away with it (in my mind) because most regular folks will tolerate more than a pwBPD will.

When I make decisions I now think them through more and determine them as the right thing to do rather than just cos I say so without thought as I used to do.

I am proud of me, I may not be able to 'fix" my partner, but I am doing a good job of fixing me, and thereby creating a more stable platform whereby she is in a better position to applying herself to fixing her.

She still drives me nuts at times, but direct over the top conflict has virtually gone. The core destructive issues are fairly well under control, so now it is all the second tier issues of responsibilities and neediness that are to be addressed in due course.

In short to answer the subject title. Before the RS I was a deluded fake, my weaknesses were exposed and now I am rebuilding the real thing. I am proud of who I am now.

[gina louise]

Hmmmm... .  

Before: I was insulated, isolated, self assured yet not very self aware. I believed I had my act together! It was an ACT.

Before: I had too much time on my hands and spent a lot of time blaming others-H, Kids, job... .  for my dissatisfaction in life

Before: I was aware that my FOO had major problems but had no idea what those were. Or how deep seated.

Before: I placed a lot more value on what I DID, over who I was- I had NO idea WHO I was!

Before: I wanted a r/s to "complete me"... .  not to Be Present to complete the r/s.

Before: I was a ball of defuse fears.



After: I am less isolated, much more self aware. My defensive armor cracked in a big way- and I let it fall. that's been good.

After: I am more discerning and less apt to give up my values to another's pressure, or for their peace. My sanity matters!

After: I feel better about myself, about my FOO, and even my r/s with my H-as damaging as it was it WOKE ME out of my stupor.

After: I have a better grip on WHO I am and what my deeper needs are, and how to meet them.

After: More clarity, more strength, more capable, more HONEST WITH MYSELF.

After: MORE LOVE.

GL

[myself]

Before, I was a mirror that had fingerprints and smudges, showing possibilities and flashes of what could really be but without consistency. A mirror that soaked up a lot of life and reflected back what it could without enough focus.

After, I'm a mirror that sees itself more clearly, having put in time wiping away what I can and learning to accept/see past what is still there. Some of the pieces are still missing but I'm looking for them, working on finding the proper glue as well.

[Mountaineagle]

I was lost, selfish, depressed and spiritually exhausted, completely oblivious on a deep level of who I was. I had bad communication skills, and was highly trained in passive aggressive expressions. I was hurt and rootless and a mess. The relationship with exBPD was a welcome safe haven for me at that time. Turned out a purgatory My general way of being triggered her abandonment issues quite quickly, and I started to change myself, bending over in the wind trying to fix myself in order to keep some peace. In that having no effect I learned that this behavior was me trying to manipulate her in some ways and that I had tried to mirror my way through relationships all my life, not bringing myself into any of them but only what I thought they would like, so they would like me. My low self esteem got even worse in that process and is now out in the open. I learned a lot in that relationship. I learned to communicate my inner needs, I learned to scream and rage, I learned to express anger and not keeping it inside myself (that was the beneficial part of that skill) And I got to know myself and my weaknesses better. I learned to care for children, she had three kids, and it felt so good to be there for them, when they needed someone to comfort or cheer them on. I might be a decent dad someday, who knows Being very selfish before the relationship, this was a good experience. I had very high thoughts of myself witch got seriously broken, and it proved that what I thought I knew was very far for what it really was like. The house of cards fell. I learned not to be harsh with myself, and more forgiving towards myself. I treat myself differently than before. For example when I wash my hands I wait until the water is perfect and enjoy washing them, and generaly being very gentle with myself. The old me would not do that. And firm boundries have now been set where there were non. I just did not know anything about my boundries before all this. 

[bb12]

I was busy - but not convinced I was confident or happy.

I was oblivious to PDs and to my own possible Codependent pathology. So sure, I had more cylinders firing but it does look a lot like wasted energy from where I stand now.

And today, like Scott44, my energy levels are very low... .  physically and mentally.

But I do feel more conscious or awake. Not quite happy yet and perhaps still a bit numb. But if I am honest, I would take this period of regrouping and lethargy over the wasting of energy with the wrong people and for the wrong reasons... .  which was my previous life.

I am not convinced solitude and contemplation are worse than previous descriptors like busy, ambitious, go-getter.

I look at all that time and energy and money as wasted really because it was all being done scattergun and for external validation.

So I am different following my BPD relationship and not quite euphoric just yet... .  but I do not covet a return to the old me

BB12