Borderline Breakup Tips: How to Get Closure & Split Yourself White

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So you've been painted black.  Nothing's worse than being devalued by the person who once loved you (especially when they attempt to ruin your reputation).  Over and over again I've seen people on these boards agonize over what their BPD exes think about them--are you split black? white? what are they telling your friends? do they want to recycle?

Even though you know they're mentally ill, you still don't want them to think badly about you.

All of her other exes were horrible, horrible people (right?  ), and now you've joined their ranks.  Even though you went above and beyond and did everything you could.  But what did all of these horrible, horrible people have in common (besides dating her)? They probably reacted poorly (or naturally, from a NON perspective) to the cheating/sudden break up--they tried to defend themselves, using reality  , and tried to convince their BPD partner that they were making a mistake. They tried to hold the BPD accountable.

In short, they didn't respect the BPDness of the BPD.  But what if you could out-BPD the BPD and use their tactics (devaluation, projection, idealization, etc.) to reverse the situation and make the breakup a positive, validating experience for the BPD?

Depending on several factors--where you are in the breakup process, whether you're still in contact, if your BPD has any level of respect for you, etc.--this guide may not work for you.  But basically, here are the things I did that allowed me to become my BPDexgf's first 'Split-White Ex' and saved my reputation.  

1. You're gonna be the bad guy.  Embrace it.  When the breakup happens, devalue yourself faster than she can devalue you.  Validate her decision.  :)on't try to defend yourself.  It'll catch her off guard, and may cause her to recant some of her attacks and reverse her opinions.

BPDexgf:  All we do is fight.

gamover:  You're right.  We've done nothing but fight the past month.

BPDexgf:  But we really haven't--

gamover:  You're making the right decision--I'm a terrible boyfriend.  I tried, but you gave me all the love you had and I didn't know how to give it back.  I'm bad for you, BPDexgf.  I don't know how you put up with me for so long.  I admire you for having the strength to walk away.

BPDexgf:  [crying] But it was perfect.

2.  Project her issues back onto yourself.  She's gonna do it anyway; beat her to it.  Make her think you're just like her (except don't pretend you lied or cheated  ).  Think of it as mirroring a reverse projection.

gameover:  I tried to control you.  That was wrong.  I don't know why I did it--I tried to... .absorb you, make you part of myself.  Of everything, I'm sorry for robbing you of your independence.

BPDexgf:  I was controlling.

gameover:  I tried to be the perfect man for you.  I wanted to--but the truth is, I'm like an eight year-old stuck inside an adult's body... .I probably sound crazy.

BPDexgf:  [looking guilty] You're overthinking everything... .

3.  Validate her and idealize the relationship.  Tell her how much you have valued your time together (because for a lot of that time you did).  Let her know she's been a wonderful girlfriend (because a lot of the time she was).  Let her keep the fantasy--that was the part she wanted you to value, anyway.  

gameover:  God, it feels like our relationship was a movie.

BPDexgf:  What do you mean?

gameover:  It just felt so magical--like too good to be true.

BPDexgf:  [thinking for a moment] We just had a really long honeymoon.

4.  :)on't try to hold her accountable.  You can't.  :)on't bother.  She'll never accept it.  She already blames herself.  I know after she broke up with me (but we were still supposed to be sexually exclusive  ) my BPDexgf hooked up with her ex and didn't tell me.  Game over, for me.  Part of her knows I know--all of the sudden I refuse to sleep with her and am no longer willing to work on a relationship.  But she doesn't know I know for sure--because I haven't reacted emotionally.  I haven't accused her or tried to make her feel guilty; I haven't even mentioned it.  It keeps her on her toes.  She's waiting for me to blow up on her and make her feel worthless, so she can paint me black.  I don't need to do that.  And she's my ex anyway.

5.  :)on't engage her attacks.  If she gets off base, don't give her a reaction.  That includes defending yourself.  If she gets emotional, let her.

Things I ignored:

"You never really cared about me."

"Why won't you fight for me?"

"I'll never trust you again."

"I thought you were the man I was going to marry."

Occasionally, I'd give her a "Wamp, wamp."  She didn't pursue any of these further.

6.  :)amage control.  My ex and I have a ton of mutual friends and acquaintances.  :)o you know what I've told all of them about the breakup?  

"I take full responsibility.  If you feel the need to take sides, take her side.  She needs friends right now."

Even if she does try a smear campaign (though after steps 1-5, she is neutral/idealizing towards me) I've already shown these people that I'm bigger than the blame game.  If they try to dig for juicy info, I just repeat myself.  When/if she talks to them, they're already predisposed to think highly of me and if she tries to blame things on me, it makes her look suspect.

I know this all sounds like a pain in the butt. And it might not feel honest to you.  But the truth is, in her eyes, this is the truth.  And chances are you were controlling, you were pretending to be perfect, you were trying to absorb her, you were failing to recognize her independence, you were acting out from your inner child.  Mostly you were trying to project your reality onto her.  Am I right? NON reality is like gaslighting to a BPD.  Same thing.  Her reality is her reality.  As the "mentally healthy" person you might as well own your part in the dysfunctional relationship.

Closure: Using these principles, I was able to get my BPDexgf to admit:

"It's not you--I do this in all my relationships.  Even my close friends.  I don't know why... ."

"I'm sorry I'm crazy."

"We've had so much fun."

"It's both of our faults."

"I'm so glad you're not angry at me."

"I'll always care about you."  (She knows love is off the table).

Basically, she's super comfortable with me now.  She knows I'm not a threat.  She knows we can be friends from a distance, but that I have to "save myself" (God's honest truth!).  She knows I'm not going to judge her.  She knows that I value our memories--because I do.  She knows I value myself too much to try to hurt her.  And that I respect myself too much to try to recycle.  And deep down, she knows I understand her issue.  And if she ever asks, I'll point her towards DBT.

Bonus:  Other lines that got a positive response:  

"I'm gonna be that Drake-type ex--always calling your phone late at night and getting emotional." (Humor is a big plus! Leave the emotions/anger to her.)

"Just because something doesn't last, doesn't mean they wasn't perfect."  (Admit it, they were perfect for a while.)

"I'm really jealous of your ability not to judge other people.  And to really connect to other people.   I wish I could be more like that."  (The most admirable quality of BPD's IMO).

Hope this helps!

[gameover]

So you've been painted black.  Nothing's worse than being devalued by the person who once loved you (especially when they attempt to ruin your reputation).  Over and over again I've seen people on these boards agonize over what their BPD exes think about them--are you split black? white? what are they telling your friends? do they want to recycle?

Even though you know they're mentally ill, you still don't want them to think badly about you.

All of her other exes were horrible, horrible people (right?  ), and now you've joined their ranks.  Even though you went above and beyond and did everything you could.  But what did all of these horrible, horrible people have in common (besides dating her)? They probably reacted poorly (or naturally, from a NON perspective) to the cheating/sudden break up--they tried to defend themselves, using reality  , and tried to convince their BPD partner that they were making a mistake. They tried to hold the BPD accountable.

In short, they didn't respect the BPDness of the BPD.  But what if you could out-BPD the BPD and use their tactics (devaluation, projection, idealization, etc.) to reverse the situation and make the breakup a positive, validating experience for the BPD?

Depending on several factors--where you are in the breakup process, whether you're still in contact, if your BPD has any level of respect for you, etc.--this guide may not work for you.  But basically, here are the things I did that allowed me to become my BPDexgf's first 'Split-White Ex' and saved my reputation.  

1. You're gonna be the bad guy.  Embrace it.  When the breakup happens, devalue yourself faster than she can devalue you.  Validate her decision.  :)on't try to defend yourself.  It'll catch her off guard, and may cause her to recant some of her attacks and reverse her opinions.

BPDexgf:  All we do is fight.

gamover:  You're right.  We've done nothing but fight the past month.

BPDexgf:  But we really haven't--

gamover:  You're making the right decision--I'm a terrible boyfriend.  I tried, but you gave me all the love you had and I didn't know how to give it back.  I'm bad for you, BPDexgf.  I don't know how you put up with me for so long.  I admire you for having the strength to walk away.

BPDexgf:  [crying] But it was perfect.

2.  Project her issues back onto yourself.  She's gonna do it anyway; beat her to it.  Make her think you're just like her (except don't pretend you lied or cheated  ).  Think of it as mirroring a reverse projection.

gameover:  I tried to control you.  That was wrong.  I don't know why I did it--I tried to... .absorb you, make you part of myself.  Of everything, I'm sorry for robbing you of your independence.

BPDexgf:  I was controlling.

gameover:  I tried to be the perfect man for you.  I wanted to--but the truth is, I'm like an eight year-old stuck inside an adult's body... .I probably sound crazy.

BPDexgf:  [looking guilty] You're overthinking everything... .

3.  Validate her and idealize the relationship.  Tell her how much you have valued your time together (because for a lot of that time you did).  Let her know she's been a wonderful girlfriend (because a lot of the time she was).  Let her keep the fantasy--that was the part she wanted you to value, anyway.  

gameover:  God, it feels like our relationship was a movie.

BPDexgf:  What do you mean?

gameover:  It just felt so magical--like too good to be true.

BPDexgf:  [thinking for a moment] We just had a really long honeymoon.

4.  :)on't try to hold her accountable.  You can't.  :)on't bother.  She'll never accept it.  She already blames herself.  I know after she broke up with me (but we were still supposed to be sexually exclusive  ) my BPDexgf hooked up with her ex and didn't tell me.  Game over, for me.  Part of her knows I know--all of the sudden I refuse to sleep with her and am no longer willing to work on a relationship.  But she doesn't know I know for sure--because I haven't reacted emotionally.  I haven't accused her or tried to make her feel guilty; I haven't even mentioned it.  It keeps her on her toes.  She's waiting for me to blow up on her and make her feel worthless, so she can paint me black.  I don't need to do that.  And she's my ex anyway.

5.  :)on't engage her attacks.  If she gets off base, don't give her a reaction.  That includes defending yourself.  If she gets emotional, let her.

Things I ignored:

"You never really cared about me."

"Why won't you fight for me?"

"I'll never trust you again."

"I thought you were the man I was going to marry."

Occasionally, I'd give her a "Wamp, wamp."  She didn't pursue any of these further.

6.  :)amage control.  My ex and I have a ton of mutual friends and acquaintances.  :)o you know what I've told all of them about the breakup?  

"I take full responsibility.  If you feel the need to take sides, take her side.  She needs friends right now."

Even if she does try a smear campaign (though after steps 1-5, she is neutral/idealizing towards me) I've already shown these people that I'm bigger than the blame game.  If they try to dig for juicy info, I just repeat myself.  When/if she talks to them, they're already predisposed to think highly of me and if she tries to blame things on me, it makes her look suspect.

I know this all sounds like a pain in the butt. And it might not feel honest to you.  But the truth is, in her eyes, this is the truth.  And chances are you were controlling, you were pretending to be perfect, you were trying to absorb her, you were failing to recognize her independence, you were acting out from your inner child.  Mostly you were trying to project your reality onto her.  Am I right? NON reality is like gaslighting to a BPD.  Same thing.  Her reality is her reality.  As the "mentally healthy" person you might as well own your part in the dysfunctional relationship.

Closure: Using these principles, I was able to get my BPDexgf to admit:

"It's not you--I do this in all my relationships.  Even my close friends.  I don't know why... ."

"I'm sorry I'm crazy."

"We've had so much fun."

"It's both of our faults."

"I'm so glad you're not angry at me."

"I'll always care about you."  (She knows love is off the table).

Basically, she's super comfortable with me now.  She knows I'm not a threat.  She knows we can be friends from a distance, but that I have to "save myself" (God's honest truth!).  She knows I'm not going to judge her.  She knows that I value our memories--because I do.  She knows I value myself too much to try to hurt her.  And that I respect myself too much to try to recycle.  And deep down, she knows I understand her issue.  And if she ever asks, I'll point her towards DBT.

Bonus:  Other lines that got a positive response:  

"I'm gonna be that Drake-type ex--always calling your phone late at night and getting emotional." (Humor is a big plus! Leave the emotions/anger to her.)

"Just because something doesn't last, doesn't mean they wasn't perfect."  (Admit it, they were perfect for a while.)

"I'm really jealous of your ability not to judge other people.  And to really connect to other people.   I wish I could be more like that."  (The most admirable quality of BPD's IMO).

Hope this helps!

[Darsha500]

So awesome.

[JohnLove]

You should've entitled the thread ":)ummies Guide to Breaking up BPD"... . 

Interesting strategy.

[HappyNihilist]

  Hello there, gameover, and welcome to the family.

You've done a lot of thinking and research, and you understand BPD traits and behaviors. You've acted respectfully towards your exgf. You've found some closure for yourself. 

You obviously put a lot of thought into this guide, and raise a lot of topics worth further exploration.

what if you could out-BPD the BPD and use their tactics (devaluation, projection, idealization, etc.) to reverse the situation and make the breakup a positive, validating experience for the BPD?

It's very commendable to want to make a breakup as 'positive' as possible for the partner. There is so much emotional turmoil and hurt at the end of a disordered relationship - it's important for us to also realize that our exes are human beings just like us, who struggle and feel pain just like we do, just maybe in different ways.

However, I'm not sure that trying to 'out-BPD' a borderline is really being positive and validating, for either party. For one, it's impossible for a non-BPD to out-BPD a borderline. They are experts at this, remember? Understanding it is not the same as living it.

Also, it just plays into the whole disordered dance. Enabling is not validating. Playing games with a pwBPD is enabling the dysfunction.

But basically, here are the things I did that allowed me to become my BPDexgf's first 'Split-White Ex' and saved my reputation.  

It was important to you to be split white by your exgf. That's understandable. You're right - no one wants to suffer the agony of being devalued by a loved one. Especially after being idealized so highly.

Beyond that, you wanted to ensure there was no retaliation from your ex. It's good that you took measures to protect yourself.

I do think, however, that there are other ways to successfully find closure, lessen the possibility of retaliation, and end a disordered relationship gracefully (inasmuch as something so messy can be 'graceful' without playing into the BPD games or trying to use BPD tactics 'against' the partner.

Tell her how much you have valued your time together (because for a lot of that time you did).  Let her know she's been a wonderful girlfriend (because a lot of the time she was).  Let her keep the fantasy--that was the part she wanted you to value, anyway.  

It's very compassionate that you don't want her to feel bad about herself or the relationship.

But do you think that not being authentic is helpful to her or to you?

You don't have to tell her she was a bad girlfriend or that you think she's disordered or anything like that. But maybe just restrained honesty - "I'm sorry that it didn't work out. I valued our time together, and I wish you nothing but the best." Maybe give some sincere compliments, like you said - "I admire your ability to accept and connect with people. I respect your intelligence/generosity/drive/whatever. I've learned a lot from you and from our relationship."

It's not triggering, it's not confrontational, but it's also sincere and it doesn't encourage her to maintain a fantastical view.

I haven't accused her or tried to make her feel guilty; I haven't even mentioned it.  It keeps her on her toes.  She's waiting for me to blow up on her and make her feel worthless, so she can paint me black.  I don't need to do that.  And she's my ex anyway.

It's awesome that you haven't accused her, tried to guilt-trip her, or shown any anger to her.  You're right - you don't need to do that. I know it can be hard to restrain from such things sometimes. It takes a lot of strength and composure to do so.

You say 'it keeps her on her toes' - this seems like you're still playing the game a little. Why is it important to you to keep your exgf on her toes?

And it might not feel honest to you.  But the truth is, in her eyes, this is the truth.

It may be her truth - but it's not your truth. Acting in ways that don't feel honest to us can cause feelings of shame and guilt.

Also, this falls into the enabling vs validating category. Validating would be acknowledging that her truth exists and is valid. Enabling is encouraging her to accept her truth as the one and only truth, to remain in her disorder-driven fantasy life.

Closure: Using these principles, I was able to get my BPDexgf to admit:

"It's not you--I do this in all my relationships.  Even my close friends.  I don't know why... ."

"I'm sorry I'm crazy."

"We've had so much fun."

"It's both of our faults."

"I'm so glad you're not angry at me."

"I'll always care about you."  (She knows love is off the table).

Why was it important to you to get her to admit these things?

[gameover]

Thanks for the welcome HappyNihilist.  You've made a lot of valid points.

However, I'm not sure that trying to 'out-BPD' a borderline is really being positive and validating, for either party. For one, it's impossible for a non-BPD to out-BPD a borderline. They are experts at this, remember? Understanding it is not the same as living it.

Also, it just plays into the whole disordered dance. Enabling is not validating. Playing games with a pwBPD is enabling the dysfunction.

I look at this as more enabling her to detach from my life with as little extinction burst (from either of us) as possible.  Over the course of our relationship, I called out unacceptable behavior as soon as it occurred (which wasn't often over the two years we were together).  No reason to clarify those things post-breakup.     

It was important to you to be split white by your exgf. That's understandable. You're right - no one wants to suffer the agony of being devalued by a loved one. Especially after being idealized so highly.

This whole debacle has surfaced a lot of my own issues--I have strong NPD/BPD traits myself and in the past have engaged in splitting, running from engulfment, etc.  I've gotten to the point that I'm getting to recognize those tendencies before they happen (hence, why I didn't split her black like I've done every other girl who ever might have done me wrong).  But all the people who agonize over their BPD exes are reacting out of ego (for example, if you get upset that she sleeps with someone else that is 100% the ego hurting).  For me, a large appeal of this relationship was to prove to my ex that she was lovable.  Unhealthy? Probably.  But she is--and I hope that keeping this relationship as a positive memory for her might help her moving forward.  (It's a nice thought, anyway  ).

But do you think that not being authentic is helpful to her or to you?

In my case, I was being authentic to myself and to her.  My BPDexgf was consistently awesome to me and maybe overly thoughtful of my needs/approval.  She tended to act inwards and blame herself for everything bad that ever happened to her.  Ever.  Over the course of our relationship she only raged at me once (it lasted two weeks ) about halfway through.  But I watched her really make an effort at controlling her outbursts and irrational jealousy.  She really wanted to make this work.  I could see how hard it was on her a lot of the time.

Yeah, it all fell apart in a big way at the end; but I can honestly say that she always put in as much if not more effort than I did. 

You say 'it keeps her on her toes' - this seems like you're still playing the game a little. Why is it important to you to keep your exgf on her toes?

It's a sort of tacit boundary enforcement re: personal attacks and accusations post-breakup.  But yes, probably a little gamey.

It may be her truth - but it's not your truth. Acting in ways that don't feel honest to us can cause feelings of shame and guilt.

Most NONs that find themselves devastated by a BPD breakup aren't being honest with themselves--pre- or post-breakup.  Is blaming 100% of the demise of your relationship on a disorder honest? Of course not.  Codependent reality is every bit as distorted as BPD reality--and every bit as destructive to any relationship.  Being angry at a BPD for failing to live up to your fantasy of them is not being honest with anyone.

Why was it important to you to get her to admit these things?

Ego, partially.  But isn't closure always an ego-related thing? A way to feel OK about ourselves again?  Either way the lack of closure in these relationships is something a lot of NONs really struggle with.  My closure was when she stopped acting in a way that was acceptable to me in a committed relationship moving forward.

[blissful_camper]

While I can appreciate this approach I feel it may be an unhealthy one.  To me letting go of someone and doing that with compassion means that we do not contribute to their suffering more in the future.  I feel that this requires kindness and honesty.

[Pretty Woman]

Hi there!

I have to be honest... .I don't think I'd ever take all the credit for the demise of my relationship... .that would only be enabling my BPD ex's poor behavior.

Had I not been honest with friends and family to what I was going through her smear campaign would have completely destroyed me. I am very involved in my community and as soon as she replaced me she was saying all sorts of un truths. There is no guarantee you can get or keep yourself split white. None. Every person is different, every level of psychosis different. IMO, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather protect myself and my reputation than coddle this person who destroyed my self esteem. I have to draw the line somewhere.

PW

[gameover]

I guess it's worth pointing out that my ex was never malicious.  I did, at first, mistake jealousy for 'caring'--and I catered too much to those insecurities.  There wasn't any overt lying--she was a dismal liar.  I didn't suffer any major financial setback.  I was never abused.  And I honestly feel that I'm every bit as responsible for the end of our relationship as she was.  

Obviously, others here were treated far worse by their exes.

By all means, if someone was abusive to you, or put your health at risk, there's absolutely NO reason to care about what they think about you in the future.  Cut them out.  Ignore any of this advice.  Run.  

In my case, things never got close to that level.  The disorder was there; I was enmeshed; but I had boundaries that didn't get crossed til after the breakup.  I have no reason not to be on good terms with my ex, at a distance.

[Turkish]

Most NONs that find themselves devastated by a BPD breakup aren't being honest with themselves--pre- or post-breakup.  Is blaming 100% of the demise of your relationship on a disorder honest? Of course not.  Codependent reality is every bit as distorted as BPD reality--and every bit as destructive to any relationship.  Being angry at a BPD for failing to live up to your fantasy of them is not being honest with anyone.

This is an interesting point. What's the connection between possible co-dependency, taking an honest look at ourselves in the mirror (to realize our contribution to the r/s breakdown), and ongoing engagement with our pwBPD?

[Pretty Woman]

Thanks, GameOver for the clarification. In my case there was abuse yet I stayed.

[gameover]

@Turkish

And chances are you were controlling, you were pretending to be perfect, you were trying to absorb her, you were failing to recognize her independence, you were acting out from your inner child.  Mostly you were trying to project your reality onto her.

These, for me, are the cardinal sins of the codependent against the pwBPD.  And these are huge violations of their personhood.  Even if they seem to want this at first, it's no wonder they rebel.  Try this with a healthy person and see how long it lasts.  

And for the people who get upset thinking about the "I'll love you forever" schpiel--who is the 'you' that they can love forever anyway?  Chances are by the end of the relationship, you don't know who you are anymore.  The codependent is ultimately just bitter that the pwBPD can detach more quickly than they can.  Bottom line.  They felt themselves superior, and continue to feel themselves superior because they were more committed to getting their needs met from a single source.  And, in truth, most codependents split the pwBPD when it's all said and done.

For me, if you can eliminate these projections--and begin to empathize with the pwBPD's reality and the fact that it will always be fundamentally different from your own--then there's very little reason not to be open to ongoing engagement with the pwBPD, assuming you're sure of your own boundaries.  What do I hope to gain from being in good standing with my ex? Not much--maybe a phone call once a year to see what's going on and to reminisce.  And to keep that channel open to her.  No expectations, no judgments, no possibility of future romantic involvement.  But we shared a significant amount of time together that as best I can tell was a positive experience for both of us--and she can split that off if she wants to, but I did my best to put myself in a position where she doesn't have to bear the shame of our failed r/s. 

And really, it wasn't a failure at all.  I grew from it and hope she does too.

[Suspicious1]

Yeah, I too have my doubts about some of these tactics, but I do have to admit to once raging against him the way he raged against me.

It was tactical, yes. He would go on a rage and accuse me of being in other relationships, and every piece of evidence against this being the fact, was used as evidence to support it. We all know those awful, mind-blowing, circular arguments you can get into.

To try to demonstrate how you can twist and turn any piece of behaviour into a negative that can be used to support a belief, I did it back to him. I still have the conversation, as we communicated on messenger. I raged, the way he raged at me, telling him all the evidence I had that he really wanted to be with his ex wife, and that he was having multiple relationships behind my back. After about half an hour, I said "I don't believe those things. But I wanted you to see how easy it is to turn anything into an argument against someone else. We could all do it if we take away rational thinking".

Maybe it was the wrong thing to do. But wow, reading it back is satisfying. And now, when I read it back and see his response, I realise I'd never known him to be so quiet during an argument. Almost, in fact, as if he was shocked I'd guessed the truth... .

[lm911]

Seems to me this strategy still leads to she being the victim, you the rescue/persecutor.

[Skip]

But what if you could out-BPD the BPD and use their tactics (devaluation, projection, idealization, etc.) to reverse the situation and make the breakup a positive, validating experience for the BPD?[/b]

You're probably getting a bit of pushback to "out-BPD the BPD" and the implied game-playing here, but what you say makes perfect sense.

You're letting the other person feel heard and your exhibiting high levels of empathy. To the friends, you are showing "letting go with grace".

And I would add, exit the situation (don't hang around). The space helps.

This takes a great deal of strength. It takes humility. Its actually good values/boundaries, and self respect. And as you say - it's clean.

[workinprogress]

Gameover, I like this thinking outside the box.  I have been struggling to keep things together in my marriage, yet I am continually painted black.  Nothing I do is ever any good.

I'm just going to accept that nothing I can do will fix this.  I have no control over what she thinks, says or does.  So, MY ring comes off today.

From now on, I will agree with her that I am a jerk.  That everything I do is wrong.  I have already stopped trying to please her. 

I can't do anymore than I have already done.  I guess this is radical acceptance.

[Skip]

I'm not sure this is out of the box…

When someone is rejecting us, it doesn't help to over reach, try to convince them that they are wrong, etc.

They just dig in harder.

So, MY ring comes off today.

From now on, I will agree with her that I am a jerk.  That everything I do is wrong.  I have already stopped trying to please her.  

I can't do anymore than I have already done.  I guess this is radical acceptance.

I'm not sure this is what is being said, workinprogress.  It's not about going down in a ball of flames.  A lo of times we encourage the other person to keep hammering us because they don't feel heard. Each swing of the hammer we take personally as we fuel having our self-worth ponded into the ground.

You only have to do this once, and do it in a significant way (not in passing or over who forgot to pay the cable bill) and then its done.  When the next set of rejection comes, you can say "I understand - we talked about it - we're good".  You don't want to be a punching bag.

The irony is, that when we are such an empathetic listener, the other person often backs off and may even change their mind.  And at the same time, if the other person is gone (and nothing will help), this may set it up so that you can detach with grace.

Being empathetic is huge.

Here is a good video:

bpdfamily.org/2015/02/video-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html

[rotiroti]

Welcome Gameover,

I love that the tactic boils down to reflecting the emotions and states back to the BPD. It's a common technique outlined and discussed often over on the staying board. I broke-up in a similar way by 'enabling' the BPDex to detach from me. It was incredibly painful, but like in your situation she did take responsibility for her half of the relationship and there was no anger. It was a huge lesson in life - learning to be empathetic while having firm boundaries.

It's like skip says, I think maybe some of the language makes it seem cruel, but the reflecting strategy is a proven and kind method for communicating with a pwBPD.

Thanks for the interesting write-up!

[apollotech]

Hi game,

That's a pretty good strategy to back out of one of these relationships. That's pretty much what I did the last time that my ex and I were physically together. I told her, Obviously I am bad for you, and if I cannot be a positive in your life then I won't be in your life. That triggered her fear of abandonment, and like yours, mine started recanting her statements about me being quite "that" bad. This all occured right after she raged at me for 1.5 hours (I timed it.). Like yours, I received a few apologies a few days later (Although, I don't put a lot of weight on her apologies.).

Like you, I wasn't painted black, even when I abandoned the relationship a few weeks later without reason. She was pissed, but I was't smeared, at least publicly. I was possibly smeared privately, but she could only successfully do that with people that don't know me (we have many mutual friends). The fear of abandonment stayed in place however as she kept trying to get me back, to re-engage (That would not have occurred if she would have split me black.).

So, I agree with you. If one can trigger their fear of abandonment on the way out then one has a chance of walking out at least as "okay."

[workinprogress]

I'm not sure this is out of the box…

When someone is rejecting us, it doesn't help to over reach, try to convince them that they are wrong, etc.

They just dig in harder.

So, MY ring comes off today.

From now on, I will agree with her that I am a jerk.  That everything I do is wrong.  I have already stopped trying to please her.  

I can't do anymore than I have already done.  I guess this is radical acceptance.

I'm not sure this is what is being said, workinprogress.  It's not about going down in a ball of flames.  A lo of times we encourage the other person to keep hammering us because they don't feel heard. Each swing of the hammer we take personally as we fuel having our self-worth ponded into the ground.

You only have to do this once, and do it in a significant way (not in passing or over who forgot to pay the cable bill) and then its done.  When the next set of rejection comes, you can say "I understand - we talked about it - we're good".  You don't want to be a punching bag.

The irony is, that when we are such an empathetic listener, the other person often backs off and may even change their mind.  And at the same time, if the other person is gone (and nothing will help), this may set it up so that you can detach with grace.

Being empathetic is huge.

Here is a good video:

bpdfamily.org/2015/02/video-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html

Skip, I appreciate your response.  I had been empathetic until my ears have bled.  She has basically shut down communications with me.  Her dad is more like a spouse to her than me.  The dude is always hanging around her work and giving her money and whatever. 

The whole situation is unwinnable, and yes, I like to win.  My definition of a win is when all parties benefit from an outcome.  I'm beginning to think that the only winnable outcome in this is calling a lawyer.

[HappyNihilist]

It's like skip says, I think maybe some of the language makes it seem cruel, but the reflecting strategy is a proven and kind method for communicating with a pwBPD.

I agree that it's a very good strategy to reflect back and show empathy and kindness to the pwBPD. Exiting the relationship with grace and without blame/anger does take a lot of strength and humility.

I didn't split my exBPDbf black, and he didn't split me black. I don't think I was able to disengage with the same amount of grace as you, gameover, but I completely agree that it's best for both partners if there's empathy and kindness as opposed to anger and blame.

I just don't like the idea of thinking of it as "out-BPDing the BPD." As you said, gameover, we "nons" already have our own things to work out.

[shatra]

Gameover wrote---

Either way the lack of closure in these relationships is something a lot of NONs really struggle with.  My closure was when she stopped acting in a way that was acceptable to me in a committed relationship moving forward.

---WHy is there such a lack of closure? Is it because it would be too painful for the BPD to really accept the loss, and take responsibility for their share of it?

-----By closure, do you mean accepting and understanding the ending?

----You wrote tha blaming 100% of the demise of the relationship on a disorder is not honest.  In my case, and many others, we were partly at fault.  I was too critical  and not supportive at times. But with BPD, I would say there are some relationships where the BPD disorder is 100% the cause. No matter hhow great the non is, no matter how many of the tool s we use, no matter how great the relationship is, the BPD will, sooner or later, do the push-pull thing and want to end the relationship.

Shatra

[rotiroti]

Gameover wrote---

Either way the lack of closure in these relationships is something a lot of NONs really struggle with.  My closure was when she stopped acting in a way that was acceptable to me in a committed relationship moving forward.

---WHy is there such a lack of closure? Is it because it would be too painful for the BPD to really accept the loss, and take responsibility for their share of it?

-----By closure, do you mean accepting and understanding the ending?

----You wrote tha blaming 100% of the demise of the relationship on a disorder is not honest.  In my case, and many others, we were partly at fault.  I was too critical  and not supportive at times. But with BPD, I would say there are some relationships where the BPD disorder is 100% the cause. No matter hhow great the non is, no matter how many of the tool s we use, no matter how great the relationship is, the BPD will, sooner or later, do the push-pull thing and want to end the relationship.

Shatra

While I agree with you that a r/s with a pwBPD (not in treatment) is ultimately doomed to fail no matter how great the partner, the partner should have SOME share of the blame for being involved in the first place. A sort of "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"


I suppose such a person would not be involved in the first place or would move on quickly... .

[shatra]

Apollo wrote--

The fear of abandonment stayed in place however as she kept trying to get me back, to re-engage (That would not have occurred if she would have split me black.).

------True. What about when they split you white, but they don't try to re-engage you back (at least not right away)?  It seems there is a time gap sometimes between them splitting you white again and them contacting you again.

Neveragain wrote:

While I agree that a r/s with a pwBPD (not in treatment) is ultimately doomed to fail no matter how great the partner, the partner should have SOME share of the blame for being involved in the first place. I suppose such a person would not be involved in the first place or would move on quickly.

------True, the non staying does reflect a negative trait by staying with the BPD. I meant that there are times when the non can treat the BPD very well, have great traits, not damage the relationship, etc. and still the BPD will sooner or later want to damage and leave the relationship. The BPDs do this with strangers, staff at the local grocery store, acquaintances, friends, co-workers, etc.   All those people the BPD has problems with, and that the "solution" is to leave the person, can't always be the other person's fault.

[rotiroti]

Apollo wrote--

The fear of abandonment stayed in place however as she kept trying to get me back, to re-engage (That would not have occurred if she would have split me black.).

------True. What about when they split you white, but they don't try to re-engage you back (at least not right away)?  It seems there is a time gap sometimes between them splitting you white again and them contacting you again.

Neveragain wrote:

While I agree that a r/s with a pwBPD (not in treatment) is ultimately doomed to fail no matter how great the partner, the partner should have SOME share of the blame for being involved in the first place. I suppose such a person would not be involved in the first place or would move on quickly.

------True, the non staying does reflect a negative trait by staying with the BPD. I meant that there are times when the non can treat the BPD very well, have great traits, not damage the relationship, etc. and still the BPD will sooner or later want to damage and leave the relationship. The BPDs do this with strangers, staff at the local grocery store, acquaintances, friends, co-workers, etc.   All those people the BPD has problems with, and that the "solution" is to leave the person, can't always be the other person's fault.

Thanks for clarifying that, I completely agree with you on that. It was so frustrating to see my BPDex not understand another person's POV.

[apollotech]

Apollo wrote--

The fear of abandonment stayed in place however as she kept trying to get me back, to re-engage (That would not have occurred if she would have split me black.).

------True. What about when they split you white, but they don't try to re-engage you back (at least not right away)?  It seems there is a time gap sometimes between them splitting you white again and them contacting you again.

Hi shatra,

I don't have an answer to that question. This is just a guess, but if a pwBPD doesn't return, I would look to see if the attachment needs were being fulfilled by someone else (the fulfilling someone doesn't necessarily have to be a romantic interest).

In my particular case, I can't claim that I was split white either. I didn't see that associated behavior. Basically where she and I are now is in the beginning stage of our third recycle. If I were to return to the relationship, I possibly might be idealized/split white. I don't see myself having that answer in the future.

[gameover]

---WHy is there such a lack of closure? Is it because it would be too painful for the BPD to really accept the loss, and take responsibility for their share of it?

Too painful for the NON, I'd argue.  If the NON takes responsibility the BPD will be in a position where they can safely acknowledge their own role in the dysfunction--and possibly mirror the NON's response toward shared accountability.  If the NON deflects all of the blame back onto the BPD (full ego protection mode) then of course the BPD will deflect blame back onto the NON.  It's a losing game at that point.  

By closure, do you mean accepting and understanding the ending?

Yes.  And owning your role in it and forgiving yourself.

You wrote tha blaming 100% of the demise of the relationship on a disorder is not honest.  In my case, and many others, we were partly at fault.  I was too critical  and not supportive at times. But with BPD, I would say there are some relationships where the BPD disorder is 100% the cause. No matter hhow great the non is, no matter how many of the tool s we use, no matter how great the relationship is, the BPD will, sooner or later, do the push-pull thing and want to end the relationship.

However great the relationship is for the NON... .you can't project the greatness onto the BPD.  Yeah, the BPD might take up with the local meth dealer.  But that local meth dealer probably has admirable qualities as well, qualities you might lack.  And their lifestyle might have appeals to the pwBPD that yours doesn't.  You might not want that lifestyle for yourself (you probably don't); but that's your reality, not the pwBPD's.

True. What about when they split you white, but they don't try to re-engage you back (at least not right away)?  It seems there is a time gap sometimes between them splitting you white again and them contacting you again.

There's a time gap in any relationship when it moves from romance to something more casual.  I'm not writing about trying to get reengaged--I'm writing about the possibility of peaceful, mutually fulfilling communication in the future.  Whether she makes contact with me or not doesn't really matter; but I'm open to accepting and/or initiating contact in the future, in accordance to my terms.  I don't need/want her to idealize me ever again.  My ego, as much as her insecurity, killed the relationship--they fed off each other.  As friends, I'll be glad to add value to her life; but I'm not going to try to take anything from her.

True, the non staying does reflect a negative trait by staying with the BPD. I meant that there are times when the non can treat the BPD very well, have great traits, not damage the relationship, etc. and still the BPD will sooner or later want to damage and leave the relationship. The BPDs do this with strangers, staff at the local grocery store, acquaintances, friends, co-workers, etc.   All those people the BPD has problems with, and that the "solution" is to leave the person, can't always be the other person's fault.

Someone casually attacking you is a little bit different than someone you know personally and have a long history of interaction with.  Yeah, the pwBPD's reactions might be extreme; but the causes are there.  The cause might seem minor to you; but it wasn't minor to her, and you can't convince her that the cause was minor.  

I don't think staying with a pwBPD is an implication of weakness--especially if that pwBPD adds value to your life and respects your boundaries.  Every boundary I had, got pushed once if that; I made it very clear that I would walk.  Now, some of my boundaries were too extreme (rooted in my own insecurities); I never should have made them to begin with.  And some of my boundaries were missing; this was my first relationship and there were things that didn't bother me then that I'll never accept in the future (maintaining privacy, space, etc.).  

But my ego was what triggered the final meltdown.  I freaked out when I started losing control and triggered the hell out of her over and over again.  That's on me.  I was enmeshed.  That's on me.  I felt entitled.  That's on me.

My biggest realization:  She has a right to self destruct.  And I have a right not to be a part of that.

[Skip]

But my ego was what triggered the final meltdown.  I freaked out when I started losing control and triggered the hell out of her over and over again.  That's on me.  I was enmeshed.  That's on me.  I felt entitled.  That's on me.

That's good that you see this. It is a relationship and we are 50% of the transactions. 

My biggest realization:  She has a right to self destruct.  And I have a right not to be a part of that.

Maybe its really, she has a right to be her and live her life. You have a right to be you and live yours.

[Turkish]

My biggest realization:  She has a right to self destruct.  And I have a right not to be a part of that.

Maybe its really, she has a right to be her and live her life. You have a right to be you and live yours.[/quote]
My T said something like this. Even as foolish and emotionally immature as he thought she was, that as an independent enity, she had a right to make the choices she did. I think that was a nice way of saying, "you can't control her, so why get frustrated trying?"

[Mr Hollande]

Sounds like an exhausting effort into a futile cause to me. I'd rather stay NC and keep moving on.

[shatra]

Apollo wrote--

In my particular case, I can't claim that I was split white either. I didn't see that associated behavior. Basically where she and I are now is in the beginning stage of our third recycle. If I were to return to the relationship, I possibly might be idealized/split white. I don't see myself having that answer in the future.

---By beginning stage of 3rd recycle sounds like you broke up twice and are now hovering towards being charmed and starting a third reunion?

---Sounds like you're saying you are not currently split black OR white... .yes, sometimes they split you white and then try for a reunion with you, other times they try for a reunion and then split you white