Why am I so bad at NC?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Any advice from fellow board members about how to maintain NC with an ex who wants to stay in contact very very badly? 

A brief outline of what's happening:  I broke up with my BPDexGF roughly two and a half weeks ago after being together for 15 months.  There have been the usual extinction bursts, including a bunch of suicide threats and a lot of crying and begging me to keep trying, followed by her telling me I was the worst girlfriend ever and hates me, followed by more crying and her telling me she can't live without me and I'm the love of her life. 

I was not wanting to go NC at first because this girl has been my best friend for over a year, and even though I know we can't make the relationship work that doesn't mean I don't care about her and enjoy her company.  I figured she would need some time to move on, but I really hoped we'd stay friends.  I'm friends with almost all of my exes and I don't find it the least bit strange to stay close with someone you used to date.

There have been some outbursts and problems that have lead me to think maybe NC is what's best for both of us right now.  She's not moving on.  She keeps talking about wanting to get back together. About how she can be so much better and she loves me more than anyone ever will and we belong together.  Part of this is my fault.  I've been way too permissive about letting her cuddle up with me when we spend time together.  We fooled around a little twice after breaking up, but I told her after the second time that things like that would absolutely NOT happen again because we were broken up.

Two nights ago we were out celebrating my birthday and we had kind of a lot to drink.  She kissed me and I pulled away, but then she begged me to kiss her like I meant it this one last time.  Under more sober circumstances I would have refused, but I wasn't sober and I went ahead and kissed her.  Nothing else happened, and we didn't kiss again that night.  She was fairly normal the next day, but then cuddled up next to me while we were watching a movie and asked if she could kiss me.  I told her I didn't think that was a good idea and she got pretty upset.  Didn't make a scene or anything, but after sitting silently on the couch for half an hour she got up and left and I had to stop her to say goodbye and give her a hug because she was going to just walk out without a word to me.

I'm really torn right now.  I know that NC is probably the best thing I can do for both our sakes.  I also know that she won't make it easy.  When I try to cut or limit contact she reacts really badly.  Last time I wouldn't let her come and stay at my place when she was having a rough night she responded by texting to let me know that she was taking some Vicoden because I hurt her so much.  She's an addict and one of the reasons we broke up was because I discovered her crippling drug addiction that she had been lying about and hiding our entire relationship.  According to her she'd been clean since I confronted her back in early March (I'm 99% sure she was still using though based on what I observed) so this was, according to her, the first time she'd fallen off the wagon.  And she wanted me to know that it was all my fault.

Previous attempts to limit contact have been met with suicide threats, which I am certain are just attention-grabs, but which I haven't been able to bring myself to ignore.  I did warn her the last time that if she told me she was going to harm herself again I would call EMS and have them take her in for a psych hold.  I have no problem doing just that should it get to that point.

I think what I struggle with is guilt.  She has no one.  She only really had a few friends when we met, and she never spent much time with them.  Her mom is nice enough, but she's also an enabler and the one who gives her prescription narcotics whenever she has a bad day. Her dad is in prison, her step-dad is abusive (and probably the reason she's so messed up in the first place).  She got really close with my friends and family when we were dating, and while I told everyone why we broke up (she was stealing from me to stay high), I've never asked anyone to take sides or stop being her friend. 

I know she's going to be around to some extent for the foreseeable future.  One of her closest friends and the person she talks to the most is my roommate.  I have no problem with that. He knows my side of things, he knows she lies a lot, and I'm not worried she'll paint me black to him.  I do think it's good that she found someone besides me to talk to about how sad she is over our break-up, so I'm actually glad they're as close as they are.  But... .   It gives her an excuse to come over on occasion or come with us when we all go out.  If I asked him not to invite her over I know he'd be totally okay with that, but like I said, I think his friendship is really good for her and it's helping her heal.

I don't actually need NC to heal.  I'm in pretty good shape.  The last three months of our relationship I was already sure we were over.  I spent those three months trying to make it work, but also getting myself used to the idea that we were not going to get married and spend the rest of our lives together.  I don't mind seeing her, and kinda like having her around so long as she's not raging at me or sulking or any of that.  I just think NC might be the best thing for her, since she's clearly still clinging to the hope that our relationship is going to work out and we'll get back together.

Does anyone have any advice on this sort of a situation?  I would prefer that we stay friends, but if we don't then I'll be okay.  It's not something that would  have a profoundly negative effect on me if she stopped speaking to me entirely.  Should I try and maintain contact, but make sure I set some serious boundaries about what is okay and not okay (i.e. cuddling, kissing, touching beyond a quick hug, sleeping in my bed with me, and so on are not okay)... .    

I don't know.  I'm aware this post is crazy long and I'm mostly just rambling.  I just feel so torn about what to do here. 

[causticdork]

Any advice from fellow board members about how to maintain NC with an ex who wants to stay in contact very very badly? 

A brief outline of what's happening:  I broke up with my BPDexGF roughly two and a half weeks ago after being together for 15 months.  There have been the usual extinction bursts, including a bunch of suicide threats and a lot of crying and begging me to keep trying, followed by her telling me I was the worst girlfriend ever and hates me, followed by more crying and her telling me she can't live without me and I'm the love of her life. 

I was not wanting to go NC at first because this girl has been my best friend for over a year, and even though I know we can't make the relationship work that doesn't mean I don't care about her and enjoy her company.  I figured she would need some time to move on, but I really hoped we'd stay friends.  I'm friends with almost all of my exes and I don't find it the least bit strange to stay close with someone you used to date.

There have been some outbursts and problems that have lead me to think maybe NC is what's best for both of us right now.  She's not moving on.  She keeps talking about wanting to get back together. About how she can be so much better and she loves me more than anyone ever will and we belong together.  Part of this is my fault.  I've been way too permissive about letting her cuddle up with me when we spend time together.  We fooled around a little twice after breaking up, but I told her after the second time that things like that would absolutely NOT happen again because we were broken up.

Two nights ago we were out celebrating my birthday and we had kind of a lot to drink.  She kissed me and I pulled away, but then she begged me to kiss her like I meant it this one last time.  Under more sober circumstances I would have refused, but I wasn't sober and I went ahead and kissed her.  Nothing else happened, and we didn't kiss again that night.  She was fairly normal the next day, but then cuddled up next to me while we were watching a movie and asked if she could kiss me.  I told her I didn't think that was a good idea and she got pretty upset.  Didn't make a scene or anything, but after sitting silently on the couch for half an hour she got up and left and I had to stop her to say goodbye and give her a hug because she was going to just walk out without a word to me.

I'm really torn right now.  I know that NC is probably the best thing I can do for both our sakes.  I also know that she won't make it easy.  When I try to cut or limit contact she reacts really badly.  Last time I wouldn't let her come and stay at my place when she was having a rough night she responded by texting to let me know that she was taking some Vicoden because I hurt her so much.  She's an addict and one of the reasons we broke up was because I discovered her crippling drug addiction that she had been lying about and hiding our entire relationship.  According to her she'd been clean since I confronted her back in early March (I'm 99% sure she was still using though based on what I observed) so this was, according to her, the first time she'd fallen off the wagon.  And she wanted me to know that it was all my fault.

Previous attempts to limit contact have been met with suicide threats, which I am certain are just attention-grabs, but which I haven't been able to bring myself to ignore.  I did warn her the last time that if she told me she was going to harm herself again I would call EMS and have them take her in for a psych hold.  I have no problem doing just that should it get to that point.

I think what I struggle with is guilt.  She has no one.  She only really had a few friends when we met, and she never spent much time with them.  Her mom is nice enough, but she's also an enabler and the one who gives her prescription narcotics whenever she has a bad day. Her dad is in prison, her step-dad is abusive (and probably the reason she's so messed up in the first place).  She got really close with my friends and family when we were dating, and while I told everyone why we broke up (she was stealing from me to stay high), I've never asked anyone to take sides or stop being her friend. 

I know she's going to be around to some extent for the foreseeable future.  One of her closest friends and the person she talks to the most is my roommate.  I have no problem with that. He knows my side of things, he knows she lies a lot, and I'm not worried she'll paint me black to him.  I do think it's good that she found someone besides me to talk to about how sad she is over our break-up, so I'm actually glad they're as close as they are.  But... .   It gives her an excuse to come over on occasion or come with us when we all go out.  If I asked him not to invite her over I know he'd be totally okay with that, but like I said, I think his friendship is really good for her and it's helping her heal.

I don't actually need NC to heal.  I'm in pretty good shape.  The last three months of our relationship I was already sure we were over.  I spent those three months trying to make it work, but also getting myself used to the idea that we were not going to get married and spend the rest of our lives together.  I don't mind seeing her, and kinda like having her around so long as she's not raging at me or sulking or any of that.  I just think NC might be the best thing for her, since she's clearly still clinging to the hope that our relationship is going to work out and we'll get back together.

Does anyone have any advice on this sort of a situation?  I would prefer that we stay friends, but if we don't then I'll be okay.  It's not something that would  have a profoundly negative effect on me if she stopped speaking to me entirely.  Should I try and maintain contact, but make sure I set some serious boundaries about what is okay and not okay (i.e. cuddling, kissing, touching beyond a quick hug, sleeping in my bed with me, and so on are not okay)... .    

I don't know.  I'm aware this post is crazy long and I'm mostly just rambling.  I just feel so torn about what to do here. 

[GreenMango]

Since you said you could detach while in contact.  Maybe because the lies about sobriety and all.  You could try the slow detachment with her.

If she's having suicidal thoughta and threats - a slow withdrawl is better for both of you.  You worry less and it gives her a chance to wean off you.

Please please stop snuggling with her and absolutely no sex - I know you know this and its hard but its making it 100x worse for her with BPD.

here is the article on how to breakup slowly https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

Here's some info on how to handle the suicide threats: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79032.0

Any questions just give a shout.

[causticdork]

Thank you.  I think slow detaching is probably the best course of action here.  I read so much about NC and it seemed like the best thing to do, but in my situation it probably isn't.

I know about the no touching rule.  I knew it was a bad idea to begin with.  I was just being stupid.  I think I can keep up some contact with her just so long as I set boundaries about that and make her stick to them.  And honestly, I think once she realizes we're really and truly not getting back together she might start detaching on her own. 

[hithere]

Kissing, cuddling and hugging won't work with non-BPD people so I don't think it would work with someone with BPD.  Do you hug and cuddle with all you ex's?

Honestly, to me it sounds like you are not finished with her yet.

[seeking balance]

Thank you.  I think slow detaching is probably the best course of action here.  I read so much about NC and it seemed like the best thing to do, but in my situation it probably isn't.

I don't think GM is saying NC isn't the best course of action, just giving an alternate that you might be able to handle w/o guilt.

Right now, you need baby steps... .   like not hanging out so much and getting drunk together.

I know about the no touching rule.  I knew it was a bad idea to begin with.  I was just being stupid.  I think I can keep up some contact with her just so long as I set boundaries about that and make her stick to them.  And honestly, I think once she realizes we're really and truly not getting back together she might start detaching on her own. 

I am going to be direct because you are playing with fire.  BPD is an attachment disorder - she is not going to detach on her own... .   that is like asking a rattlesnake to grow legs and walk.

What boundaries can you set that you can do?  Perhaps, only talk 3 times per week and only see each other every 2 weeks?  What can you stick to?

[causticdork]

Yeah, for sure.  Like I said, I already know that touching/kissing/cuddling are terrible ideas and need to stop.  That's not news to me.  I think I still feel guilty when I push her away though.  I know that not pushing her away makes things worse in the long run, but I get such intense immediate guilt any time I ask her to keep some space between us. 

The last time we saw each other I told her we were broken up and that we had to start acting like it and we couldn't keep holding hands and snuggling anymore.  She took that as proof that I never really loved her, because it's only been a few weeks since our split and she thinks I'm getting over way too easily.  This has been anything but easy on me, but I've been trying not to tell her about how much it all hurts because I have no interest in hurting her any more.

I know that I'm making things worse by giving into the guilt.  And then I feel guilty about making things worse by giving into the guilt... .     So much guilt. 

[causticdork]

I am going to be direct because you are playing with fire.  BPD is an attachment disorder - she is not going to detach on her own... .   that is like asking a rattlesnake to grow legs and walk.

What boundaries can you set that you can do?  Perhaps, only talk 3 times per week and only see each other every 2 weeks?  What can you stick to?

I'm not actually sure.  I always think I can stick to things like only talking on the phone a couple times a week and not having in-person contact, and then she'll find some way to get me to let her break those boundaries.  She's really really good at playing to my guilt.  I just need to learn not to let her.  Somehow... .  

[seeking balance]

I'm not actually sure.  I always think I can stick to things like only talking on the phone a couple times a week and not having in-person contact, and then she'll find some way to get me to let her break those boundaries.  She's really really good at playing to my guilt.  I just need to learn not to let her.  Somehow... .  

Be specific - what are you willing to do?  If you really want her to stop "playing your guilt" as you call it - this means setting a specific, reasonable boundary that may be a bit uncomfortable for you at first.

Things that are good for us are usually a bit uncomfortable at first... .   unless you are just not done with her and if you are not, you probably need to be on the staying board so you can learn tools to communicate with her as an effective friend.

What is it that you really, really want based on the facts of this relationship causticdork?

[causticdork]

I am 100% positive that I don't want to be in a relationship with her, now or anytime in the future.  I miss my friend, but I don't miss dating her and all the ugliness that came along with it.  We split up less than three weeks ago, and I'm still struggling with it because I do love her very much. 

I don't want to date her, I don't want us to get back together, but I am still in love with her, and it's hard not to get sucked back in when she says she needs me.  Reading over the board I'm starting to wonder if I might have a slight bit of that savior complex.  I didn't have it in any previous relationships, but I have it pretty bad with her.  She wants me to rescue her, and I know I shouldn't, but I don't seem to be able to stop myself.  It's a compulsion. 

[seeking balance]

Reading over the board I'm starting to wonder if I might have a slight bit of that savior complex.  I didn't have it in any previous relationships, but I have it pretty bad with her.  She wants me to rescue her, and I know I shouldn't, but I don't seem to be able to stop myself.  It's a compulsion. 

Good job looking at your patterns!

Now, if you were to substitute "saving her" with let's say meth or heroin - exactly what you tell yourself to do?

[causticdork]

But meth and heroin wouldn't make me feel like an uncaring jerk for ignoring them... .  

But yes, you're absolutely right.  I have to stop rescuing her.  It's not healthy for either one of us. 

[seeking balance]

But meth and heroin wouldn't make me feel like an uncaring jerk for ignoring them... .  

FACT:  you are her trigger and she is using guilt to manipulate you.  You are HURTING her by allowing it.

But yes, you're absolutely right.  I have to stop rescuing her.  It's not healthy for either one of us. 

The best way to break an addiction is to go cold turkey.  Not what you want to hear, but every single person who has known they need to stop drugs has an excuse on why not or moderation.   

[causticdork]

So you think it would be better for both of us if I just went NC instead of detaching slowly?  It's funny, her mom gives her Vicodin any time she asks because she can't stand to say no or see her in pain, and it frustrates me so much because she's making everything so much worse.  Now that I think about it though, I'm doing the same thing, only with affection instead of pills. 

[seeking balance]

So you think it would be better for both of us if I just went NC instead of detaching slowly?  It's funny, her mom gives her Vicodin any time she asks because she can't stand to say no or see her in pain, and it frustrates me so much because she's making everything so much worse.  Now that I think about it though, I'm doing the same thing, only with affection instead of pills. 

good insight.

There are many thoughts on NC vs. LC and depending upon the situation, which tools to use.

At this point, it sounds like the only reason you are around her is guilt, right?

You agree she is like an addiction for you - rescuing behavior, etc.

The best way to break an addiction is go NC.

Now, you want to try LC - so, I asked you exactly what is reasonable? 

Practice here - set a clear actionable goal/boundary that both you and she can be made aware of.  Perhaps a reasonable boundary is to maintain LC of 3 phone calls per week at no more than 30 minutes, no texting or emailing and dinner at a neutral location every 2 weeksfor the next 90 days then reevaluate.

Again, if you are not done - this is all just a bunch of words really.  Only you know if you are really done.

[GreenMango]

What boundaries can you set that you can do?  Perhaps, only talk 3 times per week and only see each other every 2 weeks?  What can you stick to?

Anyway you go causticdork NC or LC.

Think about setting some rules for your self like this.  You can't rely on her to set boundaries.  No need to tell her this schedule and boundary list.  Just implement it.


If you go NC I do advise letting her know you can't talk or be around her.  Make it about you - that you need time to heal, etc.

Boundaries are going to help.