Just another annoyance contributing to the death by a thousand cuts

[Methuen]

Mom by text: call me when you can

Me: Hi

Mom: _____ (her niece) and _____ are getting a divorce.  ______ (her toxic sister who lives with them) said "Don't tell anyone", but now I'm telling you.

Me (annoyed): Why are you telling me if it's a secret? I don't need to know this.

Mom: Because ______ (sister) told me, so now you know.

Me (more annoyed): I don't need to know this.

Mom: OK well that's all I wanted to say. Bye

I hate SOOOOOO many things about BPD.  I abhor the rages.  I pity the lack of self.  I hate her dependence.  I pity her pathetically poor choices in life.  And I hate the way she raised me to be her "caretaker".  And I hate even more that I was sucked into this role for most of my life before my "awakening" finally happened.  And I hate the DUMPING.  And this was a dump. And the gaslighting.  I just hate her dysfunction - all one million levels of intensity of it.

On the surface, this brief telephone call wasn't a big deal.  But I just HATE the dumping.  HATE it.  It's just another cut in the "death by a thousand cuts" method of torture.

I could tell her not to do this again.  "Don't call me to tell me any gossip. It's not my business and I don't want to hear it.  Call someone else if you need someone to tell." And then I will get a rage about what a terrible daughter I am, and how I always make her feel bad. 

I am practicing my breathing.

I don't want to be her daughter anymore. 

[Teach21]

I am so sorry. I totally get the feeling of not wanting to be her daughter anymore. It's been a hard and long road. I hate it too.  I just want a "mom" and have never had one.

[Notwendy]

Yes, the dumping- I feel the spidery sense when this happens- and it's can be in an otherwise regular conversation. Some of it may not even be true.

The other is to dump responsibility. There's been the concern over her spending her savings too quickly. One of her family members recently discussed it with her. So she calls me up to ask me what should she do? acting as if she has if she has no clue what she's doing- but she's the one making decisions. That's a form of gaslighting.

I am so used to being in the caretaker role, that I would go into giving her suggestions - for which she'd find some reason they can't work for her. Then, she remains blameless for the outcome.

This time, I just said "I don't know, it's your money, what do you think you should do?"

The other thing she is doing now is purposely acting confused. She also has had times of being confused that appeared real but I am not sure as she will act intact with her caregivers and then confused when talking to me. She will start the conversation entirely intact and if the conversation gets to details that she needs to understand- she tunes out, or hangs up. But a recent one wasn't believable. I mentioned this weekend was a holiday and she acted like she didn't understand me.

Holiday?
Yes, Mom, Easter.
What?
Easter Mom, Easter
Easter what? I don't understand?

And I fall into reminding her what Easter is and realize then, she has gotten me into caretaker, explainer mode, and she knows quite well what and when Easter is.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother does the "secret" thing too. Takes someone aside- to tell them something and then "don't tell anyone".

Or this one- tells someone something about me and then says "don't tell NW". She's even tried this with my husband! He tries to avoid this but if she does it- he tells me.

[zachira]

Sounds like your mother likes to share other people's bad news so she does not have to deal with how terrible she feels inside. There is a limit to how much we can listen to the projections knowing what they are about. I used to listen to my mother talk badly about others hoping it would help her, and she did not care about any of these people nor appreciate my listening. It only led to more frustration and sorrow on my part knowing that there would never really be a heart to heart connection with my mother.

[TelHill]

I hate this stuff with a passion. It usually led to her using my knowledge of this tidbit against me to smear my reputation with other family members. She's bedridden and forgetful. If anyone says anything, it doesn't register now thank god!

My sibling and other family members do this too.  It's easier to look disinterested and do LC with them.

I have another relative who is a malingerer with whom I have to share an inheritance. Their antics are so annoying (how many heart attacks and strokes can you have and still look unaffected by them?).  They use it for sympathy and to make me look like a banshee for questioning them. Then, when they do something questionable with the inheritance, I get blamed for overreacting. I lose out. It's maddening!

I've decided not to say anything to them. It'll be really painful to train myself to do this as this person I consider a thief goes on.

 There are ways for me to handle inheritance "issues" without speaking to them or anyone else about it. It really helps to vent in a safe place like this.

[TelHill]

Part 2, Methuen, major holidays don't help. It reminds me of the loss we had growing up with a parent with BPD. I think of all the wonderful parents who exist out there and how  I never got that. It makes the pain more acute for me. Will be glad when the Easter Bunny hops away on Monday.

[Methuen]

Sounds like your mother likes to share other people's bad news so she does not have to deal with how terrible she feels inside.

Yes, this was it exactly.  There is a very thick backstory to the triggering conversation yesterday which prompted my post at the top of the thread.  When mom was 14 her mother died, leaving her with a terribly sick minded and abusive father.  Her older sister (the one who called her yesterday to tell her about the daughters divorce) took her in so mom wouldn't have to live with the father.  They (both teenagers) survived on crackers and cheese because they had no money and didn't know how to cook.  They shared a twin bed and lived in a closet somewhere.  There wasn't even a real kitchen.

This sister of hers (probably crazier than she is) has been living with her daughter for 1-2 decades (after her husband died).  Major caretaking and enmeshment going on there.  All these years later, daughter and husband getting a divorce.  Hmmmm. 

Mom's sister put the guilt trip on mom that she "took her in" when mom was a teenager, and now "mom should take her in".  I presume there is uncertainty about where she will live now that daughters marriage is falling apart.  Things haven't always gone well with having her live with them, as you can imagine. Mom's sister is in her 90's, and SOOOOOO toxic.  She told my mom "I should have moved to ______" (our home town where mom and I live).

Mom told her no.  TG.  The last time her sister visited (about 10 years ago), she stayed at mom's house and drove her crazy.  Basically, she treated mom the same ways our moms have treated us.  That didn't work for mom.  Go figure.

So when the sister called mom yesterday and dumped all this on mom, mom had to turn around and dump those feelings on me.  A "real mother" wouldn't do this.  I've witnessed how other families work. 

I am just sick and tired of feeling USED.  USED to meet her needs.  USED as a repository for her bad feelings.  USED as a slave.  And when I set boundaries, GASLIGHTED.  Basically, we are just chattel or "tools" to be used to meet our mothers needs.  Mom is 88 and refuses any form of home care.  We have instituted FIRM boundaries over the past two years, and in a lot of ways, she has adjusted and found people pleasers to do all the "caretaking" that we used to do.  In a lot of ways, the strategies I've learned on this site and from T are working well.  But  there are many ways they don't because there is too much unresolved history and the manipulation and abuse will continue as long as she lives.  And I, will have to keep managing it. The medical system does not recognize or support dysfunctional family systems.  And that is a really really major flaw.

When I had this very visceral reaction to yesterday's relatively minor dump, I realized just how much work I still have to do on myself.  I feel like smashing something.

I hate this stuff with a passion.

Thanks to everyone who responded. It really helps to know that other people relate.  It's such a lonely place to be when no one "gets it".

I have another relative who is a malingerer with whom I have to share an inheritance. Their antics are so annoying (how many heart attacks and strokes can you have and still look unaffected by them?).  They use it for sympathy and to make me look like a banshee for questioning them.

This describes my mom (malingerer part).  Mom has so many serious and chronic health issues (physical and mental), that I cannot comprehend how the geriatrician sees her as able to live "independently".  The burden this places on family is inhumane.  I paid her house insurance last week, but I didn't even bother to read the policy first.  I just paid it.  The jobs for us to keep her in  her house are endless, even if they don't require direct contact.  She doesn't even open her mail anymore.  She just hands it to us to deal with.

Part 2, Methuen, major holidays don't help. It reminds me of the loss we had growing up with a parent with BPD. I think of all the wonderful parents who exist out there and how  I never got that. It makes the pain more acute for me. Will be glad when the Easter Bunny hops away on Monday.

The best part of major holidays for me is the distance.  It's the only time I feel safe and happy and not on edge.  I like to go camping "out of service".  That lets me recover from the drama of "leaving her to go on holiday". This summer we plan to be gone for a month.  It's just so exhilarating and freeing to not even be in the same town as her.  But you are right Telhill, the first day back, after the first interaction, is like we were never gone. And the resentment is back full force. 

Thanks for letting me vent.

[Methuen]

She's getting picked up and brought over tomorrow morning for Easter breakfast. I'm just dreading it.

[Notwendy]

She's getting picked up and brought over tomorrow morning for Easter breakfast. I'm just dreading it.

Oh gosh Methuen- Sending you hugs!

[zachira]

I hope Easter with your mom goes better than you expect, and she will not stay long at your house.
You say you still have a lot of work to do on yourself. I respect you for all you have done so far and how you are dealing with what is an impossible ongoing situation with your mother. What might help is to talk with your therapist about the underlying feelings you feel. Doing this has helped me to get in touch with my sadness and grieve, cry deeply,  instead of feeling angry and lost.

[TelHill]

. What might help is to talk with your therapist about the underlying feelings you feel. Doing this has helped me to get in touch with my sadness and grieve, cry deeply,  instead of feeling angry and lost.

Am sorry you have to spend a holiday this way. Sending good thoughts your way, Methuen.

I've found what Zachira says to be profoundly healing. I numbed through the pain to keep going with my life all my life. I had periods of high productivity with bouts of confusion and free floating distress in between.

CoDA has been helpful in that vein. Hearing the stories of others with an abusive past, many starting with their FOO, has made it safer to reach deep down inside to express the utter agony. I don't know why but am not complaining. I haven't cried like that in 40 years.

[Notwendy]

So when the sister called mom yesterday and dumped all this on mom, mom had to turn around and dump those feelings on me.  A "real mother" wouldn't do this.  I've witnessed how other families work. 

I am just sick and tired of feeling USED.  USED to meet her needs.  USED as a repository for her bad feelings.  USED as a slave.  And when I set boundaries, GASLIGHTED.  Basically, we are just chattel or "tools" to be used to meet our mothers needs.  Mom is 88 and refuses any form of home care.  We have instituted FIRM boundaries over the past two years, and in a lot of ways, she has adjusted and found people pleasers to do all the "caretaking" that we used to do.  In a lot of ways, the strategies I've learned on this site and from T are working well.  But  there are many ways they don't because there is too much unresolved history and the manipulation and abuse will continue as long as she lives.  And I, will have to keep managing it. The medical system does not recognize or support dysfunctional family systems.  And that is a really really major flaw.

When I had this very visceral reaction to yesterday's relatively minor dump, I realized just how much work I still have to do on myself.  I feel like smashing something.
 Thanks to everyone who responded. It really helps to know that other people relate.  It's such a lonely place to be when no one "gets it".
This describes my mom (malingerer part).  Mom has so many serious and chronic health issues (physical and mental), that I cannot comprehend how the geriatrician sees her as able to live "independently".  The burden this places on family is inhumane.  I paid her house insurance last week, but I didn't even bother to read the policy first.  I just paid it.  The jobs for us to keep her in  her house are endless, even if they don't require direct contact.  She doesn't even open her mail anymore.  She just hands it to us to deal with

Methen, I understand. BPD mother "uses" me too- I am just a tool for her too. While I do have distance- and she's in assisted living, and it is better for her, in many ways, it's been a fail. Help is available to her but she rejects it. The staff still does the basis jobs for her- like check her vitals and medication, I think she's been demanding and verbally abusive to them, so they probably don't want to be more attentive to her than they have to.

While she rejects the staff, she prefers to hire her own personal help- at a huge expense. With her reckless spending, she's spent almost all her savings and proceeds from the house. She does have some monthly income that covers most of her basic costs but almost no savings left and no property.

She isn't cooperative with the Hospice nurse either. The nurse still does her job but is matter of fact with her. The nurse will come by with an aide to help her bathe, and my mother will refuse, saying she just doesn't feel like it.

And still- I don't know how she's legally competent but she is. Our concern about this was to protect her savings- for her needs but it doesn't matter anymore. It's gone, there is nothing to protect and with her need for control, trying to do so would be futile. Thankfully, she does have monthly income that covers a lot of her essentials but I am keeping a watch on expenses that can not be allowed to lapse to be sure she doesn't let them. I speak to someone almost daily about her medical care, and to her almost daily to be kept informed of what is going on with her. She also continues to be manipulative with me, and it is confirmed that she "acts confused" on the phone with me but isn't that way with others but sometimes she actually is confused.

We hoped it would help to get her into assisted living but I also I wonder if it's made any difference. We got her out of the house before the bank forced her out, so she'd have had to go somewhere anyway, but it hasn't made much difference for her financially and also her BPD behaviors have made it difficult for the staff to assist her. It is better that there isn't a property to maintain and there is supervision available, but it hasn't been a better experience for her in terms of her own feelings and thinking. I guess it's because an external change doesn't change her thinking or her behavior.

[Notwendy]

BPD mother might still be in her own home if she didn't take out a home equity loan on it ( and not tell anyone) and spend half the equity in it.

I'm sharing my story because, we had hopes for assisted living but it's not been what we hoped for for BPD mother. It's not due to the assisted living. I have met some of the residents there- and see them sitting together in the lounge area or on the front porch. There are social activities and the residents have even invited me to them when I speak to them.

BPD mother has not left her room except to go to doctor appointments since she moved in. She won't go to the dining hall and has meals sent to her room. She isn't depressed- she just refuses. Part of this is control and also because, I don't think she can maintain a social relationship. She did socialize more before Covid.

This is a nice assisted living. It looks like an apartment building and residents can have their own appartments which she has. Assisted living is a social construct- meant to allow seniors to have friends and activities and be as independent as possible. Emotionally, she isn't independent.

There is a higher level of care there but this is for people with dementia and she doesn't fit that either. There isn't a care situation for people with her emotional condition. Her care needs could be met in a nursing home but she also isn't in the physical condition of most people there. So, she's with the more independent adults but she isn't an emotionally independent adult.

Since she won't leave her room anyway, it may be that she'd be better off in a room in the memory unit with more supervision. Regardless, as long as she's self directed, she won't do anything different until she isn't able to meet the cost of the apartment she is in now. Then the assisted living will move her to a more affordable one.

My guess, Methuen- is that if your mother was deemed unable to stay in her own home and forced into assisted living, she may continue to behave as she does. BPD mother was "forced" out of her home by her own financial decisions- but the result is similar as she didn't voluntarily move into assisted living, and so, has been oppositional to the services and amenities offered there.

[Tangled mangled]

Methuen,
I signed in just to give you a virtual hug and to validate your feelings about what’s happened.

My first thought when I read your post was what will happen if you didn’t call back? This disease we have as caretakers seems to respond to the prevention is better than cure approach.
I know in your case, your mum is elderly and dependent on you so “a call me back “ message could be essential to her wellbeing. But I can see a million ways she could employ this as a weapon, which is the death by a million cuts.

After all the decades of you putting up with her abuse, it’s okay for you to ignore her requests and give her space to rage. I can imagine if she rages on her own then the harm to yourself is limited as you won’t be present.
Just my 2 cents but I believe you and you are within your rights to hate everything about this illness

[CC43]

Metheun,

I understand the mix of feelings of resentment, rage, fatigue, frustration and pervasive annoyance.  Whenever the person with BPD in my life is around, or a text message arrives, or the phone rings at an odd hour, my body tenses, and dread sets in.  I hate feeling such a visceral reaction to something that hasn't even happened yet, but I've been trained that when it comes to BPD, there's typically a crisis, an urgent request and/or abuse, so the physical reaction is an automatic one.  The crises tend to coincide with holidays (or any social event), when I'm getting ready to go on vacation, or whenever there is some sort of change or transition.  And then the resentment sets in:  why can't I just enjoy a nice holiday like a normal person?  Why is the pwBPD always seeking to be the center of negative attention?

Then I tell myself:  the person with BPD shouldn't occupy so much headspace.  She's acting out because of her decisions, not mine.  She's responsible for herself and her feelings, not me.  She can have her tantrum, and then she can go on her time out.  I'll actively try to push thoughts of her out of my mind, because I don't want her ugly aura to ruin my day.  That's easier said than done, but I keep trying.

As for treating caregivers poorly in old age, I think that's not unique to BPD.  The behavioral filters that we employ to be polite and courteous with others eventually wear away.  If someone is mean or selfish as an adult, then the meanness and selfishness are magnified in old age.  And a refusal is an exercise of control, because the old and infirm have lost most of their autonomy.  I saw this in my own parents, especially my dad.  At times he refused to eat, move or wash on schedule--he'll eventually do it, but only when HE decided he wanted to.  At times he threw food like a toddler.  I see this as a last-ditch effort to have a modicum of control and power over others, when someone feels so powerless otherwise.  I think that the caregivers of the elderly are accustomed to this sort of behavior, but because their relationship is more transactional than emotional, they don't get as disturbed by it.

I hope you can enjoy your Easter, or that at least you get through it without your mother having a meltdown!  Try to give yourself a little restorative "me" time later in the day.

[Notwendy]

As for treating caregivers poorly in old age, I think that's not unique to BPD.  The behavioral filters that we employ to be polite and courteous with others eventually wear away.  If someone is mean or selfish as an adult, then the meanness and selfishness are magnified in old age.  And a refusal is an exercise of control, because the old and infirm have lost most of their autonomy.  I saw this in my own parents, especially my dad.  At times he refused to eat, move or wash on schedule--he'll eventually do it, but only when HE decided he wanted to.  At times he threw food like a toddler.  I see this as a last-ditch effort to have a modicum of control and power over others, when someone feels so powerless otherwise.  I think that the caregivers of the elderly are accustomed to this sort of behavior, but because their relationship is more transactional than emotional, they don't get as disturbed by it.

I agree- I saw this with my father and in laws. It's not only with BPD but BPD adds to it. One of my mother's caregivers confided in me that she is the most challenging person she's worked with. I agree that caregivers are not as emotionally involved

A comparison for me is that, my MIL is generally a kind and caring person so when she snapped at me in her elder years, it was the exception to who I knew her to be. BPD mother has been verbally and emotionally abusive in general- so her behavior now is consistent with how it's always been, albeit more of it sometimes.

[TelHill]

Then I tell myself:  the person with BPD shouldn't occupy so much headspace.  She's acting out because of her decisions, not mine.  She's responsible for herself and her feelings, not me.  She can have her tantrum, and then she can go on her time out.  I'll actively try to push thoughts of her out of my mind, because I don't want her ugly aura to ruin my day.  That's easier said than done, but I keep trying.

CC43,

I ruminate more than is needed with situations where I was abused or someone tried to take advantage of me.  These were serious things. It's been interfering with my healing.

It's not  about bpd mother but others whom I mentioned in other posts here. I've been working actively to get these others (sibling, relatives, neighbors) out of my head to through being grateful for all that I have (counting my blessings) and keeping active with household maintenance and hobbies I enjoy. I've gone nc with these toxic clowns (VLC with my gossiping, destructive sibling).  I cannot fix the past. I can only try to stop them from hurting me in the present with my absence from their lives..

I choose to have contact with bpd mom and dad due to their advanced age. I'm not their ft caregiver, but my sibling is for basic needs on his schedule. My dad does most of the work. It has its ups and downs for me. I want to help more due to my sibling's manipulation of my father but then it's agoraphobia for me.

When I had this very visceral reaction to yesterday's relatively minor dump, I realized just how much work I still have to do on myself.  I feel like smashing something.

Methuen, I think it's human to react to your mom's (mis) behavior just like this. And sometimes it won't bother you. It's self-preservation in a difficult, highly emotional situation with mom and your aunt pulling on you for help while being less than grateful as usual.

[Methuen]

We survived the Easter breakfast. D27 (a physio) and SO transported her here.  They transport reluctantly because BPD mom has burned her bridge with them too many times.  They truly don't want much to do with her.  It's obligation only.

She said something stupid right before we started eating.  I looked at her, and looked away and started eating.  But I'm still thinking about what she said.  She twists things to make me feel bad. 

Two hours later H transported her back home.  I'm too scared/stressed/anxious to transport her. 

She has a birthday coming up in a few days.  Another obligation, and contact.  Instead of cooking the whole day we're going to do takeout at her house.

Every contact is painful.  I have to pretend that I'm ok, and I'm not.

[Methuen]

I live in an area where large forest fires are a reality.  So are evacuations of entire cities.  These mass evacuations have happened every summer in recent years. 

My worst nightmare is that we would have to evacuate. 

And I would have to evacuate her.

I reel after a few simple hours with her when I have supportive family around me to help. 

She lives "independently"  in her house.  She is as dependent as an average 10 year old, but with cognitive decline, lack of mobility, loss of sight and hearing, fall risk, Parkinson's...

I do not have the capacity to be responsible for her in a hotel for weeks or longer. 

It would finish me.

We have historic low water tables, tinder dry forests, and fires that are already re-igniting after winter.  This is not catastrophizing.  This is real.

Suggestions for what I could do if this were to happen?  Or what I should do prior?

[Notwendy]

Every contact is painful.  I have to pretend that I'm ok, and I'm not.

I understand that feeling. As to transporting her in a flood evacuation- due to her age and health, I think I'd call 911 if it were a possibility. I don't know what they'd do for people in assisted living and nursing homes if this happened but there must be some option for the elderly in your area.

[Notwendy]

I meant fire- what do they do for elderly people who need medical transport and assistance in case of fire evacuation?

[TelHill]

The forests further out in the SF Bay Area have been prone to these due to drought and old, overworked power lines.  Fires start and spread quickly. What you say makes sense.

These evacuations are precautionary rather than get out now if you have the ability to collect her. Is that what you mean?

Too bad she can't move to an area outside the fire zone. That would help. It's never what they want though. I know the obligation falls on you to look after her due to an evacuation.

Does your mother act up less in public? Can you research which hotels have amenities to distract her and choose one if you need to leave?  Hopefully she won't be as nasty in a cafe, restaurant, walk/pushed in a wheelchair in a public garden or shopping mall.

This may not be for you but have you looked into 12 step meetings to help you deal with her? I like CoDA to help deal with difficult people and situations. I attend religious services almost daily. CoDA seems to offer the same  common sense wisdom that my religion does but you don't have to believe in this or that.

[Turkish]

Sounds like your mother likes to share other people's bad news so she does not have to deal with how terrible she feels inside.

I think this is a lot of it. Looking back, my mother also told me a lot of things when I was a child that were inappropriate for my age.

When I was 13, we lived on a property in a camper with another family who lived in a bus on the other side of the property. They had propane, and it was a luxury to cook warm food (as opposed to eating out of cans). I made myself and the other kids a box of Mac and cheese. The other kids were 12 and 9. I accidentally dumped a pile of pepper into my bowl, ruining it no matter how much I scraped out. I told the others to dump theirs into a common bowl to dilute it, but it ruined the whole batch, and we were all out of Mac and cheese. I did feel a little badly, but at least those kids suffered with me. 

I wasn't BPD, just a jerky 13yo in that moment.

[TelHill]

Methuen,

I just thought is it possible to hire a nurse or caregiver to come to the hotel to help your mother should you guys have to evacuate? It would let you off the hook for a few hours a day.

There's no great solution to this.  I hope your area stays free of fire so you never have to evacuate.

[Notwendy]

I think this is a lot of it. Looking back, my mother also told me a lot of things when I was a child that were inappropriate for my age.

When I was 13, we lived on a property in a camper with another family who lived in a bus on the other side of the property. They had propane, and it was a luxury to cook warm food (as opposed to eating out of cans). I made myself and the other kids a box of Mac and cheese. The other kids were 12 and 9. I accidentally dumped a pile of pepper into my bowl, ruining it no matter how much I scraped out. I told the others to dump theirs into a common bowl to dilute it, but it ruined the whole batch, and we were all out of Mac and cheese. I did feel a little badly, but at least those kids suffered with me. 

I wasn't BPD, just a jerky 13yo in that moment.

I wonder if any of us look back at our teen years and approve of every thing we did. What comes to mind is that- even if you did "share the pepper" it wasn't in the category of behaviors that one considers delinquent or self destructive. "Jerky 13 year old" sounds about right. You wouldn't do it now, as an adult, because it's part of maturing.

I think some "normal" teen behavior can resemble BPD- the mood swings, the difficulty with self image as they evolve from children to adults. I think a difference is if the behavior is extreme- and also that teen agers mature out of it.

There's a quality to the emotional dumping that makes it different than just sharing news. I don't know how to quite describe it but there's a feeling- a yukky creepy feeling when this happens. It's the tone of voice and also choice of words. Someone getting a divorce- this can be just information but when it's "share this little secret- don't tell but....." it feels different.

[Tangled mangled]

I live in an area where large forest fires are a reality.  So are evacuations of entire cities.  These mass evacuations have happened every summer in recent years. 

My worst nightmare is that we would have to evacuate. 

And I would have to evacuate her.

I reel after a few simple hours with her when I have supportive family around me to help. 

She lives "independently"  in her house.  She is as dependent as an average 10 year old, but with cognitive decline, lack of mobility, loss of sight and hearing, fall risk, Parkinson's...

I do not have the capacity to be responsible for her in a hotel for weeks or longer. 

It would finish me.

We have historic low water tables, tinder dry forests, and fires that are already re-igniting after winter.  This is not catastrophizing.  This is real.

Suggestions for what I could do if this were to happen?  Or what I should do prior?

Are there temporary nursing facilities or care homes she could stay at for a few weeks.

In your area, there might be elderly people who have no relatives to care for them. Pretty sure they still receive care. Or possibly to look out of area in advance for her to go into care temporarily.
I work in healthcare, you can’t force relatives to provide care for the elderly. In your case, your mental health is on the line here. It might be worth looking into a temporary placement. dont let the FOG keep you trapped .
She will rage and fight it, but the question to ask is what would happen if you are unable to meet her needs?

[Tangled mangled]

Also if she has to stay at a hotel could you live at a different hotel - giving her physical distance?

[zachira]

We get it that every contact is painful and you are not okay. There comes a time when your nervous system can no longer tolerate the abuse because you are totally aware of the abuse. One of the biggest challenges when there is ongoing trauma and abuse  is to live in the moment and not ruminate about the past or worry about the future.

[livednlearned]

I wonder if this (evacuation concerns) might be part of the argument for placing her in assisted living.

[Methuen]

Iv'e been so distressed recently, I couldn't even reply.  But today is somewhat better, despite the fact that mom has sabotaged the plans I made for her birthday.  I just really want to say thank you to everyone for responding.

I understand that feeling. As to transporting her in a flood evacuation- due to her age and health, I think I'd call 911 if it were a possibility. I don't know what they'd do for people in assisted living and nursing homes if this happened but there must be some option for the elderly in your area.

These are good points. I need time to build the strength to have this conversation with someone in home care.  I'm thinking about going "on record" that I won't be able to evacuate her.  Then asking them what is their plan for evacuating clients in the community who receive care in the home.... There are pros/cons to having this conversation. I haven't thought so far as to what exactly I would say or how to approach that conversation if I did.  It upsets me to think about it.
 

Does your mother act up less in public? Can you research which hotels have amenities to distract her and choose one if you need to leave?  Hopefully she won't be as nasty in a cafe, restaurant, walk/pushed in a wheelchair in a public garden or shopping mall.

This may not be for you but have you looked into 12 step meetings to help you deal with her?

All good points, but my mother has regressed over the past years from being a social person (needing to be the center of attention), to being a recluse locked up inside her dark home (lights off and window shades closed).  All to say she never goes out into public.  She doesn't have the mobility or the stamina or the desire. As to hotel amenities, I live in a very rural area with the nearest "city" (pop 65 000) being 6 1/2 hours away, so finding a hotel with a "restaurant" and an elevator would be a win (stairs are out of the question).  That's it for "amenities".

When I was 13, we lived on a property in a camper with another family who lived in a bus on the other side of the property. They had propane, and it was a luxury to cook warm food (as opposed to eating out of cans). I made myself and the other kids a box of Mac and cheese. The other kids were 12 and 9. I accidentally dumped a pile of pepper into my bowl, ruining it no matter how much I scraped out. I told the others to dump theirs into a common bowl to dilute it, but it ruined the whole batch, and we were all out of Mac and cheese. I did feel a little badly, but at least those kids suffered with me. 

I wasn't BPD, just a jerky 13yo in that moment.

Thanks for sharing.  I get your point.  Yes, mom is a master at spreading and dumping her misery.  It's different than your story, but yesterday, I came home from a paint class feeling "joy" like I hadn't felt in months because for two hours I got transported into a super fun activity where she didn't enter my head.  I actually momentarily felt "healthy" - happy!  Before I even left the class, she phoned me on my cell.  I silenced the call and ignored it.  When I got home and listened to the message, she was "cancelling" the family birthday celebration I planned for her because her GC grandson who lives 6 1/2 hours away, couldn't be there.  Apparently H and I and GD27 aren't worthy "enough".  The message all of us got is that "we are nothing". In her "waify" croaky voice her message states she's in bed and doesn't want us to come over.  In that moment my joy vaporized.  She kills my happiness.  Just destroys it. Anything nice I try to do for her she finds some stupid BPD way to sabotage.   Turkish, I get your point that they need to spread their misery around to others to dilute their own horrible feelings.  But the ways they do it are just wretched.

Methuen,

I just thought is it possible to hire a nurse or caregiver to come to the hotel to help your mother should you guys have to evacuate? It would let you off the hook for a few hours a day.

There's no great solution to this.  I hope your area stays free of fire so you never have to evacuate.

I love this idea TelHill.  I would do it in a blink if I could.   Where I live is so rural that these people (nurses/caregivers) are almost impossible to find.  Even if I did, mom would be unlikely to agree to anyone I found, without "flipping out".  My T is working with me to get over my uncomfortable feelings when mom "flips out/rages" at me.  I'm pretty stuck in doing whatever it takes to avoid these rages.

Thanks for saying "I hope you never have to evacuate".  Thinking about this does make me appreciate all the struggle and trauma other people with dysfunctional family members have suffered in past evacuations. I hope the numbers of people in our situation are so low it almost never happens, but I doubt that's the case.

Are there temporary nursing facilities or care homes she could stay at for a few weeks.

In your area, there might be elderly people who have no relatives to care for them. Pretty sure they still receive care. Or possibly to look out of area in advance for her to go into care temporarily.
I work in healthcare, you can’t force relatives to provide care for the elderly. In your case, your mental health is on the line here. It might be worth looking into a temporary placement. dont let the FOG keep you trapped .
She will rage and fight it, but the question to ask is what would happen if you are unable to meet her needs?

 
This is very interesting tangled mangled.  You say the health care system can't force relatives to provide care for the elderly, but where I live there is a "supply" problem for community and long term care to the tune of "years" on a waiting list. It's a national problem. Many people actually die waiting.  So if there is no "supply" or options, the onus is on the family in practice, if not on paper. You are right about the "question to ask".  That is what I have to work up my courage for.  The thought of having that conversation with home care stresses me out.  I do feel trapped in FOG.  The challenge with staying at a different hotel than mom is really that she wouldn't even know how to call room service, or do anything for herself in a new environment.  She can somehow manage in her own home because everything is familiar to her, but put her in a new environment, and she would truthfully be as helpless as a wailing baby.  She has mild cognitive impairments, and anxiety that is out of control. But you've nailed it by looking for a solution that involves physical distance.  This is exactly what I need (and want).

We get it that every contact is painful and you are not okay. There comes a time when your nervous system can no longer tolerate the abuse because you are totally aware of the abuse. One of the biggest challenges when there is ongoing trauma and abuse  is to live in the moment and not ruminate about the past or worry about the future.

Thanks for understanding and articulating so well Zachira.  Mindfulness is something I've been working on for a while now.  With the daily interruptions and triggers of mother's wants and neediness when she is so close, it is just really hard to manage.  Which makes mindfulness all the more important.

I wonder if this (evacuation concerns) might be part of the argument for placing her in assisted living.

Well, I just have to work up the courage to have this conversation with home care.  I just hate having to be the "bad guy", and telling home care that I "cannot evacuate her, so what are the alternatives"?

I am not a bad person, and it's just horrible that she's put me in the position where I have to do this. I hate it.  It doesn't come natural for me, because I am such a people pleaser.

Her birthday is this Tuesday.  Last week she was here for Easter breakfast and we all agreed to celebrate her BD with her tonight at her place (because we all work and are busy on Tuesday and the weekend is just more relaxing).  Yesterday she called and said she wanted to postpone her party until her GC grandson comes home in May.  I promptly pointed out that weekend we already have plans and are all busy camping with a family friend.  She responded by saying that we could drive in and come pick her up to drive her out to the lake to celebrate with her, and then drive her back home again.  I immediately politely told her we already had plans but we were excited to be celebrating with her today.  I home baked and decorated a cake for her.  This morning she texted "I'm in bed today, no supper today".  I replied with "feel better soon".  The cake is sitting on the counter.  Somehow we'll get it to her before Tuesday.  I wouldn't be surprised if she threw it in the garbage, but that is her problem.

[Methuen]

I yearn to not live in the same town as her.  But our daughter moved back her with her SO to start their careers after uni, and our friends and life is here, so it doesn't make sense to leave.  But I think about it a lot.

Mother is just torture. And miserableness. And drama.  And she empties our cup.

[Turkish]

The message all of us got is that "we are nothing". In her "waify" croaky voice her message states she's in bed and doesn't want us to come over.

That means that she does want you to come over to rescue her from her sense of self loathing. And if you do, you'll be punished.

[Methuen]

That means that she does want you to come over to rescue her from her sense of self loathing. And if you do, you'll be punished.

Yep.  So today we just let her wallow in it alone.  I've learned some things over the past few years.  It doesn't feel right.  But it is what it is.

[Notwendy]

Iv'e been so distressed recently, I couldn't even reply.  But today is somewhat better, despite the fact that mom has sabotaged the plans I made for her birthday.  I just really want to say thank you to everyone for responding.

 When I got home and listened to the message, she was "cancelling" the family birthday celebration I planned for her because her GC grandson who lives 6 1/2 hours away, couldn't be there.  Apparently H and I and GD27 aren't worthy "enough".  The message all of us got is that "we are nothing". In her "waify" croaky voice her message states she's in bed and doesn't want us to come over.  In that moment my joy vaporized.  She kills my happiness.  Just destroys it. Anything nice I try to do for her she finds some stupid BPD way to sabotage.   

I am not a bad person, and it's just horrible that she's put me in the position where I have to do this. I hate it.  It doesn't come natural for me, because I am such a people pleaser.

Her birthday is this Tuesday.  Last week she was here for Easter breakfast and we all agreed to celebrate her BD with her tonight at her place (because we all work and are busy on Tuesday and the weekend is just more relaxing).  Yesterday she called and said she wanted to postpone her party until her GC grandson comes home in May.  I promptly pointed out that weekend we already have plans and are all busy camping with a family friend.  She responded by saying that we could drive in and come pick her up to drive her out to the lake to celebrate with her, and then drive her back home again.  I immediately politely told her we already had plans but we were excited to be celebrating with her today.  I home baked and decorated a cake for her.  This morning she texted "I'm in bed today, no supper today".  I replied with "feel better soon".  The cake is sitting on the counter.  Somehow we'll get it to her before Tuesday.  I wouldn't be surprised if she threw it in the garbage, but that is her problem.

My BPD mother also has sabotaged plans for her birthday. She also threw out a birthday cake I brought for my father. A few people got together for his birthday at their house and a neighbor brought a cake. I didn't know the neighbor was doing that. Both cakes were out but BPD mother woudn't let anyone eat the cake I brought. I thought maybe she was saving it for some other occasion but she threw it out after the party.

Another time I drove to visit her for her birthday. A neighbor was hosting a birthday get together for her. She went to it and didn't invite me to come along with her. I had also planned a get together with her family members too- arranged for all the food and paid for it. At the last minute she told me she didn't feel well and wasn't going to come. Then, she changed her mind and came anyway.

I was in tears over being left out of the neighbor get together and when she almost didn't come to the get together I planned. I can't expect her to cooperate or appreciate the attempt. I don't make birthday plans for her like that now. I send her flowers.

I agree- you aren't a bad person, I don't think I am one either but with their need to feel like victims, they put other people in "bad person" position. Nobody is perfect- we all make mistakes but somehow good intentions don't resonate with them.

[Methuen]

My mom has always liked to play hard to get.  The benefit to her of this is attention.

She has also played the “I’m not well today” card and cancelled plans.  The only point I see to this is it lets her wallow in her victim mode. I don’t know what they get from that. Maybe it’s where they are most comfortable.

Another thought re: our  moms canceling the party we planned for them, I wonder if it’s ODD,  or a one upmanship need to control.  I can just imagine her thinking “I’m not going to give her the satisfaction of feeling good for having a party for me.  I want her to be miserable. So they cancel it to make us feel bad. Is this how they control our feelings?

When I talked to mom on Saturday and she suggested postponing her party until the next holiday weekend when her GC grandson was home, she was all excited and full of energy.  Three of us heard the conversation.  She was perfectly fine. But when I told her we already had plans for that long weekend she didn’t like that I set a boundary. This didn’t meet her need to change everything so her GC grandson could be at her party. I wasn’t agreeing with her.  Two hours after that phone call I got a text she was sick in bed.  I suppose her sudden sickness was somehow my fault. Then yesterday she cancelled her party. It just feels like manipulation because she couldn’t get what she wanted.

I have no doubt she will either tell her friends or let them think that her family did nothing for her 88th birthday. To her that would be a “fact”.  This drama is the part the rest of the world doesn’t see.

Death by a thousand cuts.  And the cuts just keep coming. With no end in sight.  Her family has longevity genes.

[TelHill]

I have no doubt she will either tell her friends or let them think that her family did nothing for her 88th birthday. To her that would be a “fact”.  This drama is the part the rest of the world doesn’t see.

Methuen, In my experience birds of a feather flock together.  You can be Mother Teresa and this gang group of friends will collectively find fault with you. Perhaps the adult children of her friends are targets too..

I  home baked and decorated a cake for her.  This morning she texted "I'm in bed today, no supper today".  I replied with "feel better soon".  The cake is sitting on the counter.  Somehow we'll get it to her before Tuesday.  I wouldn't be surprised if she threw it in the garbage, but that is her problem.

I'm so sorry. You don't deserve this after a sweet, loving gesture.

As a suggestion, freeze the cake and bring it on the day of the party. This might be a good boundary to set with her. The day of her actual birthday, you might want to bring a small token when you visit like bringing  a small store bought baked good and an Alka Seltzer (stomach pain aid in the US) for her. Maybe bring one of her friends with you?

I am not a bad person, and it's just horrible that she's put me in the position where I have to do this. I hate it.  It doesn't come natural for me, because I am such a people pleaser.

You are not at all, Methuen.  She, as is my own mother, too much to deal with.

[Notwendy]

She has also played the “I’m not well today” card and cancelled plans.  The only point I see to this is it lets her wallow in her victim mode. I don’t know what they get from that. Maybe it’s where they are most comfortable.

Another thought re: our  moms canceling the party we planned for them, I wonder if it’s ODD,  or a one upmanship need to control.  I can just imagine her thinking “I’m not going to give her the satisfaction of feeling good for having a party for me.  I want her to be miserable. So they cancel it to make us feel bad. Is this how they control our feelings?

I think your point- control- not letting us have the satisfaction that we did something nice for them is a possible explanation.

Your idea about a "one up". My BPD mother likes to have parties- when she is in control of the situation. There was one time we offered to have a birthday party for her. We know how she is with money so we had to come up with a limit within our budget. We planned a birthday lunch at a popular restaurant and an invitation list, and told her if she wanted to expand on that, it was on her. She then cancelled the restaurant and hosted her own party at another one.

I contrast this with my MIL. When she was in assisted living, her children got together, picked her up and took her to lunch. She was so happy and appreciative. When her mobility was more limited, we got a large sheet cake and containers of ice cream and brought them to the facility- enough for the residents there- and had the birthday celebration there.

It seemed so easy to do something that she'd be happy about. Trying to do something my BPD mother is happy about seems challenging. Maybe it is the Victim perspective or control, I'm not sure.

[zachira]

It takes a toll on you to go to all the trouble to celebrate your mother's birthday and be treated so badly. Your only choice to protect yourself may be to continue to do less and less for your mother as you have been doing. Your mother is certainly not going to give up on making you the target for how badly she feels inside or to stop trying to control you.

[Notwendy]

I don't make plans for doing something for my mother that are contingent on her participation. I can't trust her to follow through with them. I still do nice things for her but only if I am not invested in the outcome. If I gift her anything, I also have to not care how she feels about them or what she does with them. For her birthday, I send her flowers. I have no idea what she does with them. After a few attempts to do something with her or for her for her birthday and me ending up with hurt feelings- I won't extend that opportunity to do that.

[Methuen]

There has been latent fallout from our out-of-country trip last November.  It has crushed me, and left me in a state of utter despair.  A Hot Mess.  Still working through it.

My BPD mother also has sabotaged plans for her birthday. She also threw out a birthday cake I brought for my father. A few people got together for his birthday at their house and a neighbor brought a cake. I didn't know the neighbor was doing that. Both cakes were out but BPD mother woudn't let anyone eat the cake I brought. I thought maybe she was saving it for some other occasion but she threw it out after the party.

Another time I drove to visit her for her birthday. A neighbor was hosting a birthday get together for her. She went to it and didn't invite me to come along with her. I had also planned a get together with her family members too- arranged for all the food and paid for it. At the last minute she told me she didn't feel well and wasn't going to come. Then, she changed her mind and came anyway.

I was in tears over being left out of the neighbor get together and when she almost didn't come to the get together I planned. I can't expect her to cooperate or appreciate the attempt. I don't make birthday plans for her like that now. I send her flowers. 

We all have so many stories over a lifetime of dysfunctional -relationship busting material like this.  I think you and I (and so many others here) are at a point where we have accepted that we don't have a mother except in name. Because she gave birth to us, she gets the title of "mother" and expects all the benefits that come with it, without actually ever being one.

For a long time now, I have had conversations with my H making the point that my mother "never knew or felt genuine love" and also "never genuinely loved me" because she did not have the capacity.  That part of her brain simply wasn't wired up for healthy attachment.  At first he didn't like hearing that my mother "never loved me".  But since he took over the "duties" of grocery shopping, taking her to appointments etc after I "returned to work from retirement", he has been more involved with her, and now directly sees and experiences her behavior rather than just hearing about it from me.  He now completely accepts her lack of capacity to "love".  I have so many examples and stories for evidence of this I could write a book.

In attachment theory mother could best be described has having both a disorganized attachment style, and an anxious attachment style.  Two disastrous styles all wrapped up in one package.  Attachment is on a spectrum.  On one end is Mother Theresa - very attached.  On the other end are murderers and such.  My mother is on the "unattached" end of the spectrum. But she is not a "bad person".  I would still call her a "good person".  But she has not been a "mother".  And I think this helps to explain a lot of the behaviors.  It also brings me some peace to realize all of this because it helps to demonstrate it's not personal.  It's her.  Not me.

This lack of capacity to have healthy emotional attachments and love, also helps to explain why they just use us as objects to have their needs met.  Do things for them.  Chores. Jobs. Tasks.  All of which gives them attention and control.  They are very skilled at knowing how to pull our puppet strings because for so long we were so desperate to earn the love of our mothers we would do anything for them, and also to keep the peace and manage their emotions.  They learned this.  And used it to their advantage.

There is just no way a "loving" mother would have the capacity to hurt me the way my mother has done.  I could never have done things she did or said to me to another human, much less my own children.  I don't necessarily believe she intentionally does this to hurt me.  It's the disease-disorder.  I see the two as somewhat separate. 

It's like she's part human, part monster.  The human part is visible when her emotions are in check, and can be quite charming. This is the element the world sees. The monster part is visible when her emotions are dysregulated, and this part is saved for the people she is closest to (most of the time).  The monster part damages relationships, but the human part is too weak to do any repair on relationships because there is no capacity to analyze, reflect, question herself, empathize, or love (including self love).  Jekyll and Hyde.

Yesterday I told my T, I just felt like I wanted to move far away from her.  Uproot our lives and leave the town where I have happily lived my whole life, because now I only feel safe when I am away on holiday far far away from her.  Physical space and lots of distance makes me feel safe.  Being in the same town with her is smothering me.  And I feel like I'm being extinguished.

My T wisely said that even people on the other side of the world can't get away from the drama of their loved ones.  Triggers still happen at a distance, and frequently.  And from this forum I know this to be true.  So we have to heal from within. 

Last week I put in a call to mom's home health care manager.  She told me they will no longer do home safety checks for mom when we are out of town.  She had an unprofessional tone. I am speculating that mom went ballistic on them when we went away last time.  This person told me "a conversation with me was not worth her time and resources".  I asked her "if a fire moves through our community while we are out of town and a community evacuation is ordered, mom would burn alive if there was no safety checks or plan in place to evacuate her".  She told me that mom has full capacity to choose to live at risk. And then she ended the conversation.  There was no compassion or empathy or suggestions or support, or advice.  Nothing.  She shut the door in my face.  Mom has been receiving services off and on for over 5 years as needed (after falls and when we go away).  So why the change?

I am so weary of this mother that has on one had terrorized me my whole life, and on the other hand can be charming.  As she's aged (88 after the recent birthday), her health issues and personality disorder issues have amplified.  There is no "relationship".  Just her needs and demands, and chaotic behavior.  We have so many boundaries.  The boundaries are exhausting because of the push back.  We hold the boundaries.  Which just leads to more accusations that "we don't love her".  The irony of that.

When acquaintences politely inquire about her, I freeze.  My brain stops working.  I can't think.  Nobody knows.  Nobody understands.  There's just ignorance.  They just see a vulnerable charming old lady who needs help.  And they probably wonder why I don't do more to help her.  I'm left feeling terrible, every time, despite what I know to be the real truth.

I'm really struggling these days.

[Notwendy]

Hugs to you Methuen- I understand.

The distance helps but your T is correct- even miles away, my BPD mother's situation takes time and emotions.

It took a while for my H to "get it" too, but he does now after seeing my experiences with her.

I think the description of my mother as part monster and part human makes sense. Even as kids, we felt our mother was some kind of magical being. Cognitively, I know she's a human with a soul like all humans but I don't know anyone who is quite like her.

I have had similar responses from her health care providers and helpers. She has been emotionally and verbally abusive to some of them. He hospice nurse is very distant and abrupt with me. She is very professional but I don't think she likes my mother and truly, I don't blame her. The social worker has made herself available to me if I need to talk but a lot of people who are in direct contact with my mother are abrupt with me.

I don't blame them for not wanting to go beyond the duties of their job in relationship to her but this also leaves us without a sense of supportiveness from them either. I think for us, this triggers the emotional abandonment and blame we experienced in our own families. BPD mother doesn't love us and so it must be that we aren't deserving of it. The fear that people would not like us because of our mothers and sometimes that was the case.

And we know when this happens because we grew up with it. The dismissing tone of people who speak to us. That somehow if our mothers behave a certain way- there's the assumption that we would as well. Even as professional as the Hospice nurse it--- I can hear that familiar tone in her voice.

We are worthy of being liked and loved for who we are, even if our mothers could not affirm this for us.

[zachira]

Methuen,
It seems you have reached the point of: "I can't do this anymore. I can't have my mother in my life because of how destructive it is to my well being." It is a very painful place to be and heartbreaking. I could not go to see my mother in the last couple of years before she died because my siblings were in control and I could no longer stand to be abused by my mother. Your situation is truly painful and heartbreaking because you are an only child and live in the same town as your mother, AND the people who work for her are able to quit taking care of her and they do.

Can you start looking at solutions that seemed impossible before, solutions that truly put your well being first and leave your mother to self destruct on her own? Thinking of solutions does not mean you have to implement them; this can allow you to find solutions you would never have considered in the past. Example: you quit your job and go to a retirement destination far away for a long period of time. You make it clear to the necessary services in your area for the elderly and disabled that there will be no family members locally to help your mother. Then you decide what to do which you can do at any time. Sometimes what seems impossible becomes possible because we open up our mind to new possibilities.
 
It is clear your mother is affecting your well being and future. A few months ago, a classmate of mine from elementary school through high school died and her extremely abusive mother is still alive. It broke my heart to see this. Her mother ruined her lovely kind and caring daughter's life. I worry and care about you. It may seem like you are in a one way street with no chance to escape and perhaps you aren't.

[zachira]

Methuen,
You clearly are needing to spend long periods of time away from your mother so you can heal and enjoy yourself without having to be as concerned about your mother.
 
Here is an idea that worked for a man I know whose elderly mother with likely diagnosable BPD in poor mental and physical health. He lived far away from her and he needed to know how she was doing. There was nobody else to check on her. She would likely never have accepted home health care coming to her home. He secretly installed motion detectors throughout her house. This gave him lots of information on how she was doing. Clearly if there is no movement for long periods of time, then he would have had to call the proper authorities to come and break in to see if his mother was very ill and unable to care for herself or perhaps deceased. He talked many times about how helpful the motion sensors were in keeping tabs on his mother. He did not have to come visit as often and was able to go on long trips abroad for his work. I can give you more information if you are interested.

I hope I do not offend you by this idea. Your situation is so especially challenging and heartbreaking being the only child and daughter of a mother with BPD who lives in your town.

How are you doing today?

[livednlearned]

I'm really struggling these days.

Methuen, the home health care manager's behaviors would be so upsetting if someone behaved that way to me.

On one hand it is a form of validation. Obviously your mother crossed a line and the home health manager is doing what anyone would do: pull away and say no more.

On the other hand, I wonder if it feels like someone is confirming your worst beliefs, that your mother is a monster. The home health care manager gets to leave. Whereas you don't get to do that without repercussions in a small town.

You need someone skilled to show up and do their job, and do it in a way where you. can. get. a. break. This woman just did the opposite, she made things worse in multiple ways and won't even say what happened.

Your mother might live long, she might need to be evacuated in a fire -- these are possible things and it makes sense that you are trying to get a plan in place that lightens your load. It makes sense that the home health care manager could exacerbate depressive symptoms, too. You need less responsibility for your mother, not more. 

While I agree that moving away will not solve this problem, I can't say enough about the psychological reprieve knowing that geographic boundary exists. It's not uncommon for people to move far away from a difficult family if only to minimize the encounters. I'm not advocating a move away, only to say that our family issues do come with us but we also get something from that distance. Maybe for you it's more vacations or a cottage rental somewhere.

The home health care manager is right that your mother full capacity to choose to live at risk. How did you feel when she said that?

If it were me, I think coming to terms with the consequences of that statement (me, not my mother) would be an important part of processing so I could move on to next steps.

I know that if my father dies first, my mother will be subject to my disordered siblings nutty health decisions. I've pre-grieved this. I don't know if I'll be able to stay in that pocket but I'm hoping some of my realizations will help carry me through when the time comes.

We talk about radical acceptance here. Radical acceptance of the disorder. Radical acceptance of the behaviors. I extend that to radical acceptance of control. Specifically, what do I actually have control over. It's almost nothing. I can say words but there is no control there.

You deserve a reprieve and your mother is not going to give that to you or anyone else without a fight.

If planning a move away makes you feel relief, what harm is there in that?

Moving 3000 miles from my family meant leaving a town I love and uprooting me in a way I will never fully recover from. I emigrated to a different country and will never belong to one country, one town, one home. But moving away was priceless. It reduced the number of encounters and gave me a chance to breathe.

Advice is often autobiographical and I know life is complicated and there are a million reasons why solutions are often more complex than the problems. At least you can fantasize about an escape hatch at a time when the health care system is failing you, a very hard blow given your situation.

Where would you go, and what would it feel like?

 

[Methuen]

Methuen, the home health care manager's behaviors would be so upsetting if someone behaved that way to me.

On one hand it is a form of validation. Obviously your mother crossed a line and the home health manager is doing what anyone would do: pull away and say no more.

On the other hand, I wonder if it feels like someone is confirming your worst beliefs, that your mother is a monster. The home health care manager gets to leave. Whereas you don't get to do that without repercussions in a small town.

You need someone skilled to show up and do their job, and do it in a way where you. can. get. a. break. This woman just did the opposite, she made things worse in multiple ways and won't even say what happened.

Your mother might live long, she might need to be evacuated in a fire -- these are possible things and it makes sense that you are trying to get a plan in place that lightens your load. It makes sense that the home health care manager could exacerbate depressive symptoms, too. You need less responsibility for your mother, not more. 

While I agree that moving away will not solve this problem, I can't say enough about the psychological reprieve knowing that geographic boundary exists. It's not uncommon for people to move far away from a difficult family if only to minimize the encounters. I'm not advocating a move away, only to say that our family issues do come with us but we also get something from that distance. Maybe for you it's more vacations or a cottage rental somewhere.

The home health care manager is right that your mother full capacity to choose to live at risk. How did you feel when she said that?

If it were me, I think coming to terms with the consequences of that statement (me, not my mother) would be an important part of processing so I could move on to next steps.

We (H and I) have crafted a letter to the manager of home health services outlining what happened and requesting a meeting. Our T proofed it and improved it. We'll see what comes of that.  I'm emailing it tomorrow.  It's an escalation on my part, but how that woman treated me was wrong.  She was unprofessional.  She was mean and abrupt.  She was not trauma informed.  I am confused about the change in service which wasn't explained to me other than "mom has the right to live at risk" despite them providing services in the past, and also families with difficult elderly parents still deserve respect and support.  She effectively closed the door in my face.  It was horrible.  Still, I don't like complaining, or escalating.  It makes me uncomfortable, but I feel we deserve a conversation, and her handling of the situation needs to be addressed, if only to help other struggling families. My mom must have been an animal when home health showed up to her door on our last out of country trip.  Something bad went down, and now they are taking the easy road by saying "she has the right to live at risk" , and withdrawing support they have given us in the past.

LNL to answer your question about how I felt when she said "your mom has chosen to live at risk, and we wouldn't want her to burn in her home if a fire came through, but that is what she has chosen", I would say that H and I have already come to terms with these issues after the drama of the last trip.  Like you said, it's all about control.  If mom burned in her house, it would be horrific for her and for us.  But I also know we have done every reasonable thing we could, and the fact that it could happen would be a direct result of her choices.  I take NO responsibility for her choices.  I do not for one minute believe that mom has the awareness to understand how her choices and decisions could lead to consequences.  For example, she doesn't connect any dots between her loss of vision since cancelling home health care visits who were putting essential prescription drops in her eyes because her ophthalmologist called for it (mom has Parkinson's and when she does it herself the drops run down the side of her face but she insists they got in her eye).  Now she wants a bath lift for her tub since her friend got one.  But this bath lift doesn't have arms for her to hang onto.  Mom has no core strength. Her friend is strong and still drives, get's her own groceries etc and lives fully independently (but had a fall in her bathtub at 88).  Mom wants the exact same lift.  We suggested getting an OT from home health to come assess mom's bathroom and recommend an appropriate lift for mom, but mom refused because it's home health.  Mom is so weak and fragile and has such poor balance that I could see her falling as the lift was moving and drowning in her own tub.  My point is that she can't anticipate risk, or foresee consequences.  She's unable to analyze a situation, or compare options to assess which option is the best for her.  She simply wants what her friend has and that is that.  There is no connection between choices and consequences.  No executive functioning.  Just emotions and control.  So if something catastrophic happened due to her choices to live at risk, I am at peace with it.  I question her capacity, but that is out of my control.

Moving 3000 miles from my family meant leaving a town I love and uprooting me in a way I will never fully recover from. I emigrated to a different country and will never belong to one country, one town, one home. But moving away was priceless. It reduced the number of encounters and gave me a chance to breathe.

This.  Thank you so much for sharing your experience, and validating my situation.  The encounters (in person, by phone, by text, by email, and via endless 3rd parties) is almost daily in a small town.  I live in the Northern Hemisphere.  Five years ago when I was on vacation in the Southern Hemisphere I had an epiphany as I experienced the freedom and safety of being so far away from mom first hand. It hit me in a big way. Since then, I have been tuned into feeling this every time I go away, even if it's just a small road trip.  It's no coincidence that we go on a long remote road trip into nature and "off the grid" every summer.  But the beneficial effects of that is practically undone within the first 24 hours of being home and retriggered by her.

I have thought a lot about where I would move.  There are several places 600-900 miles away where H and I could be happy.  It would be drastic because everything we know and love is where we are right now, but so is the monster mother.  It's a dilemma.  Right now, there are too many things and property and people here that we love, for my H to seriously consider this idea.  But I spend a lot of time thinking about it because it's my "out" from my mother. 

Zachira, I was not at all offended by your idea.  I think his actions demonstrate his caring.  He wanted to know she was safe.  That's how I read it.  That's what home health care checks are when we leave town.  But a person with BPD cannot "give" to their child anything that would make the child feel better if it does not also make the BPD mother feel better.  I don't think my mother has given me a single thing in my life that was "just for me", and didn't somehow benefit her needs first. Their narcissism and distorted views of people and the world take over. Our son (my mom's GC) begged her to accept home health safety checks so we could all holiday together in peace.  That was one time he experienced her "being difficult" first hand.  She wouldn't even give that to him (we were travelling with our adult children), and he was very frustrated.

Can you start looking at solutions that seemed impossible before, solutions that truly put your well being first and leave your mother to self destruct on her own? Thinking of solutions does not mean you have to implement them; this can allow you to find solutions you would never have considered in the past. Example: you quit your job and go to a retirement destination far away for a long period of time. You make it clear to the necessary services in your area for the elderly and disabled that there will be no family members locally to help your mother. Then you decide what to do which you can do at any time. Sometimes what seems impossible becomes possible because we open up our mind to new possibilities.
 

I hear you.  We do have a plan to do some longer term travelling, but it's down the road for various reasons.  It will absolutely force the issue when the time comes if home health continues on the current trajectory.

I have had similar responses from her health care providers and helpers. She has been emotionally and verbally abusive to some of them. Her hospice nurse is very distant and abrupt with me. She is very professional but I don't think she likes my mother and truly, I don't blame her. The social worker has made herself available to me if I need to talk but a lot of people who are in direct contact with my mother are abrupt with me....The fear that people would not like us because of our mothers and sometimes that was the case. And we know when this happens because we grew up with it. The dismissing tone of people who speak to us. That somehow if our mothers behave a certain way- there's the assumption that we would as well.

Yes, it is just so completely unprofessional, to be judgemental and assume we are like our mothers, and treat us as if we are.  It is hurful and harmful.  And that is how I felt when this home care manager treated me badly on the phone.  She squashed me as if I was a bug in so many ways that day, but actually saying "a conversation with me was not worth her time and resources" crossed a line.

I am struggling with so much right now, but that home care manager cutting me off and saying she didn't want any more conversations with me - essentially cutting off support I have received from home care services in the past including a geriatric mental health nurse - just doesn't sit well.

When a physically and mentally challenged vulnerable person who is 88 years and living alone becomes "difficult", is there not some moral or ethical obligation for home health to work with the family within reason, because doing so would actually help support the elderly person and prevent caregiver burnout?  Can they really just "abandon" the family?  Especially when home health has provided services in the past?  Just curious about the thoughts and experiences of others...

[Methuen]

When a physically and mentally challenged vulnerable person who is 88 years and living alone becomes "difficult", is there not some moral or ethical obligation for home health to work with the family within reason, because doing so would actually help support the elderly person and prevent caregiver burnout?  Can they really just "abandon" the family?  Especially when home health has provided services in the past?  Just curious about the thoughts and experiences of others...

...I should have included..."is there not some moral or ethical or professional obligation for the system to work with the family within reason..."

I'm thinking of Bowen Family Systems theory here.  Technically, my mom is their "client", and she has agreed to services in the past, but then always cancels them early. However, my H and I are the "biggest" part of mom's support system as her family.  Bowen Family Systems Theory seems to make it pretty clear that abuse is intergenerational, and I'm thinking that in today's world of trauma informed practice, home health providing services to family is reasonable. My mom could not survive living alone without support from others.  She needs help with groceries, meals, bathing, cleaning, appointments etc.  Mom pays a few people (cleaner and gardener) but we (mostly H now since I burned out) do everything else.  H has done an amazing job of setting boundaries with her, so generally he "helps" her with "jobs"  and appointments "3-5" hours a week, whereas there used to be times I did that in a day.  But when we are out of town or out of the country, home care has done safety checks (once it was even prescribed by an emerg doctor as we were leaving the next day).  So does precedent have any role to play here?  Also, since I have disclosed the nature of the dynamic openly for years to home health, is it professional or appropriate for them to "walk away" from services they used to provide me, if I have disclosed how abusive she can be?  That's just like throwing me into the hands of my abuser.  I guess if they can do that, it would be good for me to know that.  Thoughts?

[Methuen]

Are there temporary nursing facilities or care homes she could stay at for a few weeks.

In your area, there might be elderly people who have no relatives to care for them. Pretty sure they still receive care. Or possibly to look out of area in advance for her to go into care temporarily.
I work in healthcare, you can’t force relatives to provide care for the elderly. In your case, your mental health is on the line here. It might be worth looking into a temporary placement. dont let the FOG keep you trapped .
She will rage and fight it, but the question to ask is what would happen if you are unable to meet her needs?

I just reread this Tangled Mangled.  Thanks for sharing your ideas.  I hear you when you say that health care can't force relatives to provide care for the elderly.  But I think this is more the case where there is NC or an outright refusal to provide any care.  The thing is, we still support her in many ways, but with more boundaries than we have ever had because of our own mental health.  Home Care once told me that as long as mom found other people to "help her", she would have difficulty accessing resources such as home support or assisted living because the waiting list is so long.  In effect, the message was, until we and everyone else she knows refuses to help her, she won't get into assisted living.  So from my standpoint, while health care can't "force" me to provide care for her, that is effectively what happens in practice when they don't have enough staff to provide services, or mom cancels them once they arrive.

I recently posed the question to a home health manager "Can we make a plan for mom so that if the community were evacuated when a fire came through while we were out of town and off the grid, she wouldn't have to burn alive in her house because she can't evacuate herself" and was told that "mom has chosen to live at risk".

Just wow.

They have always been helpful in the past, but now that she has raged at different people at home health, they don't seem to be willing to support us any more.

As for the temporary placement idea, mom would have to agree to that, and she will never agree to that. 

dont let the FOG keep you trapped . She will rage and fight it, but the question to ask is what would happen if you are unable to meet her needs?

I do feel unable to meet her needs - which are a black hole, but that's ok, because all the resources possible couldn't meet her needs.  She would find something wrong with them, and scream at everyone trying.  If a fire went through, and our community had to evacuate, I couldn't be around her in a hotel for 24/7 without completely losing my mind. 

[Notwendy]

Although my BPD mother has accepted some help- she also has been vebally abusive to support people. I understand that the professionals have a job to do- and on the other hand, her need for control, vebal and emotional abuse, and refusal to comply impacts their ability to do their job with her. Some have decided to not be her providers due to this.

So while I fully agree with you that home health should not have responded to you that way, I also wonder- as you also said- how did your mother respond to them?

BPD mother has stated some of the staff at her assisted living are "rude" to her. I don't think they are rude, but I think they do their job but don't spend more time with her. I've  heard she pushes the call button over and over until someone comes in, even if it isn't an emergency. When she wants something, she wants it immediately. She does the same thing with the phone- calls and if someone doesn't answer immediately- calls again and again until they do.

She's doing about the same on Hospice care as she has done with regular medical care. One concern was- was she just being left with no care- but since she didn't comply with medical care- the outcome is the same and the hospice services are easier on her to manage as the nurse comes to see her. She still gets care for her chronic conditions.

In retrospect- my mother isn't proactive. Change happens during some sort of crisis and it's urgent.

It's similar to the principal of "hitting bottom" in 12 steps- someone isn't likely to change unless they do so. The difficult part is stepping back and allowing the person to experience the consequences of their behavior, especially when it's with someone who can't fend for themselves. But truly, we aren't stepping back if we don't have the power to change their behavior. It's not a task that is possible. if someone is legally competent- they can refuse intervention.

It may be that you can only do so much to get services for your mother. I understand the wish for an evacuation plan. I hope your email works. I have found it helpful to have my own plan "if BPD mother does X- this is what I would do". What would be the alternative to a plan? Could you call emergency services or the fire department if there was a need to evacuate?

[livednlearned]

Home Care once told me that as long as mom found other people to "help her", she would have difficulty accessing resources such as home support or assisted living because the waiting list is so long.  In effect, the message was, until we and everyone else she knows refuses to help her, she won't get into assisted living.  So from my standpoint, while health care can't "force" me to provide care for her, that is effectively what happens in practice when they don't have enough staff to provide services, or mom cancels them once they arrive.

I admire you for writing the note to shine light on the unprofessional case manager. Even though these processes are so stressful, I'm wondering if this incident might lead to assisted living for your mom. In effect, home health care decided they're done. What better assessment is there than that?

If they take the case manager's word that your mother was abusive or impossible or however she frames it, would that increase the likelihood your mother ends up being moved to assisted living? If only to get her off their plate. I remember you writing that resources are extremely limited where you live and that may be the root cause and cannot be changed. But sometimes miracles happen. I was told I would never get sole custody of my son. It took years but once my n/BPDx husband began treating the judge the way he treated me, suddenly the judge was in the business of granting miracles  

[Methuen]

I admire you for writing the note to shine light on the unprofessional case manager. Even though these processes are so stressful, I'm wondering if this incident might lead to assisted living for your mom. In effect, home health care decided they're done. What better assessment is there than that?

Apparently the right hand doesn't communicate with the left hand because she sailed through her recent geriatric assessment, which was held in the same home health office.

If they take the case manager's word that your mother was abusive or impossible or however she frames it, would that increase the likelihood your mother ends up being moved to assisted living? If only to get her off their plate. I remember you writing that resources are extremely limited where you live and that may be the root cause and cannot be changed.

She's not really on their plate at the moment because she's not receiving any service.
 I actually suspect the opposite to be true - some of the same people are involved in decisions around home health and assisted living. So if mom has identified herself as a "problem, and she doesn't want assisted living, it isn't really in their interest to fight it while they also determine she has capacity.  Yes, resources are limited here.  There is a long waiting list for assisted living, and home health is short staffed. The challenges are significant.

[zachira]

Methuen,
I believe you have mentioned in the past, that your mother has recruited her friends to help her out to replace what you and your husband will no longer provide. Would it make sense to check in with these people when you are on vacation to see how your mother is doing?

[Methuen]

They are all in their 80’s and 90’s and have their own health problems , so while they will check in on her when they can, it’s a big ask for someone that old to be responsible for her if a medical emergency comes up, or she has a fall. 

In the past home care provided the safety checks because if a medical emergency did arise, medical services could be put in place more quickly to support her.

[zachira]

I am suggesting that you just ask them to check on your mother while you are away. If there is a medical emergency, they can call the emergency number for your area. You need your time away from your mother to keep your sanity and health.