Is it possible to try to set relationship goals?

[vortex of confusion]

I posted another thread about wanting some space. My husband and I both agree that it would be a good idea for us to get space, even if it is just for a couple of weeks.

One of the things that came up was setting shared goals. I am not sure if this is realistic or not.

He is in a 12 step program and is on step 5. I asked him if he could set a goal to complete the rest of the steps in a given time frame. He said that he would like to be done with them by our anniversary in June. I asked him if he could set that as a goal to be done. He started talking in circles saying that he wants to give each step thorough consideration and that he doesn't want to feel rushed. And, he said that he didn't think he could set that goal because it might put too much pressure on his sponsor. He talked in circles and then said that he thought he could be done with the steps by Easter. I interrupted him and said, "So, the appropriate response would be, 'No, I cannot and will not set a goal'. Is that what you are trying to say?" At which point, he said, "I guess so." And then he started talking in circles again. At that point, I interrupted and said, "I am done with this conversation."

The talk about the 12 step stuff followed a discussion that we were having about him checking in. MissyM gave me some really good information about how to help them check in without feeling pressured. He checked in ONCE using the format that I gave him. That was a month ago. He did a half a&& check in a couple of days ago. When I brought up that he hadn't done the check in with me, I told him that I sent him the format and that part of it is that he take the initiative and follow the questions. When I sent it to him, he thought it was great and wonderful and said that it would be a nice way to check in. Anyway, he turned it around on me and said, "I checked in with you. I just didn't do it the way you wanted." I stood my ground and said, "No, you didn't do it the way I wanted. I sent you the form and the information. It was up to YOU to take the initiative and follow through. You didn't do it. I want you to use the suggested format that I sent you and check in with me once a week." He was clearly upset and bothered and he tried to play the victim. "I tried but it wasn't good enough for you."

From all of that, we agreed that he would set a goal of checking in with me once a week. I could see that he was resisting a face to face meeting. He gave all kinds of excuses such as interruptions from the kids, etc. So, I told him, "Okay, then do it via email. Use the form that I sent you and send me an email answering those questions once a week." He wouldn't commit to a day or anything else. He said that he would try to send me the email. We agreed that it was a shared goal.

Now, my problem is that I am pretty sure that he is going to drop the ball or forget as usual. I don't know what to do if he doesn't follow through.

All of this has to do with whether or not I should even bring up any kind of relationship goals. Personally, I want some kind of end. I want progress. I want to do more than listen to him put me off. I want out of this holding pattern.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Err... .those aren't shared relationship goals.

Those are spouse goals.

Reminds me of a comic I once saw, a single frame scene in a bookstore. One shelf was labeled "Self-Improvement" and had a bunch of books on it and nobody around it. Another shelf was labeled "Spouse-Improvement" and was mobbed and down to its last two books.

Your prior patterns with your husband make setting goals for him and having him check in with you sound like a really REALLY bad idea to me. Isn't one of your "classic fights" about him not living up to stuff, and feeling like you are trying to control  him?

[MissyM]

Vortex, I hear you on the frustration.  I can't hold my dBPDh SA accountable for not doing the check in.  He also finds all kinds of reasons not to do it.   We are seeing some couple's therapists and they hold my dBPDh accountable.  The problem is that it is supposed to be for his reassuring me and building trust, if I have to chase him it makes me angry and him resentful.  The point is for the SA to behave like an adult and share with their spouse.  It is not to create a parent/child dynamic.  Since your BPDh SA hasn't finished his step work, as mine hasn't, then it make just may take some time for them to be consistent.  Personally, I am up to mentioning that I am disappointed that the check in hasn't been done but that is about it. 

[vortex of confusion]

Err... .those aren't shared relationship goals.

You are right. They aren't shared goals. I was trying to steer the conversation towards shared goals but he kept going back to his recovery and the 12 steps. I will admit that I was grasping for straws. I stopped the conversation when I realized that I was going down familiar paths. I stopped the conversation and posted here to try to get some feedback or perspective.

I am trying to figure out how to get what I want and need without being controlling. I feel like I am up against a wall because I want to make some kind of forward progress and it isn't happening.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, I hear you on the frustration.  I can't hold my dBPDh SA accountable for not doing the check in.  He also finds all kinds of reasons not to do it.   We are seeing some couple's therapists and they hold my dBPDh accountable.  The problem is that it is supposed to be for his reassuring me and building trust, if I have to chase him it makes me angry and him resentful.  The point is for the SA to behave like an adult and share with their spouse.  It is not to create a parent/child dynamic.  Since your BPDh SA hasn't finished his step work, as mine hasn't, then it make just may take some time for them to be consistent.  Personally, I am up to mentioning that I am disappointed that the check in hasn't been done but that is about it. 

Hmmm. . .I have no idea what he is doing with his therapist as he doesn't go very often. Again, there is usually an excuse. I haven't mentioned the check in since I first brought it up. I think part of the problem is that he asks me what I want. I tell him "I want X." Then, drops the ball and doesn't do X and then gets mad if I bring up X again. I don't feel like I am chasing him to check in. I think today was the first time that I brought it up. I am frustrated because I feel like I am at that make or break point and I feel like he is still sitting around twiddling his thumbs.

We both want a break but he won't commit to a time frame. I would like to go places as a family. I get vague BS. Even when I try to take the lead and plan things on my own for us to do as a family, I get a lot of BS and push back. I feel like there is always an excuse as to why we can't have any shared goals. I don't even know if that is possible or realistic even. I try to let him know that the only way that trust or anything is going to happen is if we try to come up with some kind of shared goal whether it be to go out once a week as a family or something even smaller. I have tried to bring up stuff like that but it falls on deaf ears.

[Grey Kitty]

You are right. They aren't shared goals. I was trying to steer the conversation towards shared goals but he kept going back to his recovery and the 12 steps.

That's a huge problem with an enmeshed relationship pattern. It is "familiar" or "comfortable" for both people in it. You are trying NOT to control him... .and he tries to shift things back into that dynamic where you are trying to control him and he's being sullen and refusing to do what you are 'forcing' him to do.

Makes it twice as hard for you to change.

Hmmmm... .I think that aiming for shared goals that you share work on is probably the wrong type of change.

Anything you can do on your own is much easier to implement.

[vortex of confusion]

Anything you can do on your own is much easier to implement.

This is very true. I have been focusing on all of the things that I can do on my own. I guess I am at a point where I have been going it alone for so long that I am tired. He says that he wants to try to rebuild things. He says things that lead me to believe that there might be something left. I am trying to wrap my mind around this notion that I can't ask him for anything with any kind of reasonable expectation that he will follow through. And, I am at a point where I feel like it is make or break decision time. I don't know why I feel that way. I just do at this moment in time. I want something, anything that says that I am not wasting my time by continuing to be patient and continuing to work on myself and continuing to listen to him go on and on and on. I will start out with some resolve when we sit down to talk and the next thing I know the same patterns are being repeated. Yes, I am finding that things are more peaceful but that does nothing to address the fact that my relationship with my husband feels very much like a parent/child situation.

I have probably answered my own questions and know where things are going but I am too dense, stubborn, clueless to simply accept it and go back to focusing on how to get the heck out of the relationship.

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, I am finding that things are more peaceful but that does nothing to address the fact that my relationship with my husband feels very much like a parent/child situation.

You CAN address this. At least your side of it.

If your husband acts like a child, you cannot change that. (And trying only makes everything worse!)

You don't have to act like a parent with him. You are a parent to four children. There are probably another billion children alive, and you are NOT a parent to most of them. Nor are you a parent to other adults who act like children. (I won't even guess on counting them!) You probably even have friends/family members who meet this description, perhaps less than your husband, but to some degree, and you don't act like a parent with them.

Where can you improve your behavior in this dynamic?

Try to think of him as being ill or disabled (but not a child).

Along the way you will have to grieve the loss of your imagined/hoped for marriage of equals. You can improve what you have, but you cannot turn it into what it isn't.

[vortex of confusion]

You don't have to act like a parent with him. You are a parent to four children. There are probably another billion children alive, and you are NOT a parent to most of them. Nor are you a parent to other adults who act like children. (I won't even guess on counting them!) You probably even have friends/family members who meet this description, perhaps less than your husband, but to some degree, and you don't act like a parent with them.

Maybe some other mothers can chime in here. I will be perfectly honest and say that when I am with other people that act like children when something needs to be done, I will go all Mom on them. It isn't a codependent thing or some kind of psychological BS. It is something that I have seen and experienced among mom groups over the years. It is something that I have seen and experienced as both a mother and a child. Heck, there are times when I will get parental with different family members. But, I also recognize that my approach to parenting could be considered different from the norm. I am more of a mutual respect, shared solutions, peace, love, personal responsibility kind of parent.

Where can you improve your behavior in this dynamic?

From where I am sitting, the only thing that I can do to improve this dynamic is to let him be. If he doesn't do something, let it go. If he doesn't follow through with anything, let it go. And I have been doing that for the most part. He made a big deal about needing a new mop so he could mop the kitchen floor for me. I went to the store and got a mop. The mop is still sitting unopened and the floor has not been mopped. I haven't said a word. I let it go.

I think it is really a matter of me accepting that I can't ask him for anything with any kind of reasonable expectation of it being done. I feel like the only way to change my behavior is to think of him as a room mate. Actually, I don't think that would work because I feel like I could say something to a roommate if the roommate were doing things that interfered with my life or were just plain rude.

Try to think of him as being ill or disabled (but not a child).

That doesn't work for me very well. I know lots of people that are ill and/or disabled that are perfectly capable. I know people that live their lives in constant pain and have neural stimulators in their brain that are hooked to battery packs and they don't behave like my husband does. When my friend with all of these medical issues snaps or gets ugly, she will apologize immediately. Heck, for that matter, when my kids get ugly they will usually apologize and admit that they were just being jerks. In reality, thinking of him as a child or ill or disabled does not work for me because everyone that I know that falls into one of those categories is way more capable of following through and contributing than my husband is.

Along the way you will have to grieve the loss of your imagined/hoped for marriage of equals. You can improve what you have, but you cannot turn it into what it isn't.

I am so tired of grieving the loss of this stupid relationship. Right now, I feel like I have nothing. Yes, that is being a bit overly dramatic but that is how I feel. How can I make something out of nothing? I can't turn it into what it isn't. You are right. It isn't a true marriage and I don't think I will ever be able to make it into one. The best I think I can hope for at this point is cohabitation for the sake of the kids.

[sweetheart]

"Along the way you will have to grieve the loss of your imagined hoped for marriage of equals. You can improve what you have, but you cannot turn it into what it isn't"

voc this quote and this again from gk. It does not sound as though it is possible for you to have the marriage that you want from your husband.( I can't know this, it's just from reading your posts that is the sense I get )

Letting go of and grieving the loss of my marriage for me was and still is at times the hardest thing to accept. The sadness I feel at the loss of the marriage I thought I had and now struggling coming to terms with what it is today has been so very hard.

To stay I have chosen to let go of many things, but I also understand that in doing that my marriage now allows me a freedom, a way of being that I did not have in other relationships. The thing is, what is left once you have accepted all the above is not for everyone. I still move between staying and leaving because that is the nature of the beast that is BPD. The difference is for me now from a year ago is that I accept today is what it is and that's all I know for sure.

[vortex of confusion]

It does not sound as though it is possible for you to have the marriage that you want from your husband.( I can't know this, it's just from reading your posts that is the sense I get )

It is absolutely impossible to have the marriage that I want as long as I am with my husband. I get that. I have been beat over the head with that notion for years. That isn't anything new.

I feel like I would have to let go of pretty much anything and everything. I feel like I would need to get to a place where I am okay with whatever he chooses to give me at any given moment.

I feel like all I can do is try to have some tough conversations with him to see what is next. But, I know that doesn't really work because there are so many times when I have to end the conversation because it becomes all about him and his recovery. In all honesty, I am beginning to really hate 12 step programs because it has made my husband even MORE focused on himself and how great he is doing.

I feel like I am being told "Let go and everything else will fall into place." I get told that by my husband a lot. "Just be patient and everything will fall into place." Um, I feel like that is a BS excuse to not do anything. I feel like it is a BS excuse to turn things back around on me. I feel like it is yet one more thing that I am doing wrong. If I could just let go and accept that I don't have a marriage, then I will find freedom and life will be so much better.

[sweetheart]

voc the letting go of wanting him to change won't make everything better it just means that you're not constantly exhausted/frustrated/angry in trying to get him to meet you half way, trying to get the marriage you want from him. It really means just accepting him for who is now,today and nothing else... .and it's really hard and really lonely and at times, well I post on different boards... .

Those tough conversations are best just to avoid, you've had enough conversations to know what he will say and do, or not do as the case may be, he can't manage those conversations. That's what gk means about this being a disability, it's about coming at your marriage from a different perspective if you choose to stay. What that means is if you have a different frame of reference with regards to the disorder it becomes easier for you... .but the end result in my opinion looks nothing like any other marriage I know apart from the ones on these boards.

[Grey Kitty]

Along the way you will have to grieve the loss of your imagined/hoped for marriage of equals. You can improve what you have, but you cannot turn it into what it isn't.

I am so tired of grieving the loss of this stupid relationship. Right now, I feel like I have nothing. Yes, that is being a bit overly dramatic but that is how I feel. How can I make something out of nothing? I can't turn it into what it isn't. You are right. It isn't a true marriage and I don't think I will ever be able to make it into one. The best I think I can hope for at this point is cohabitation for the sake of the kids.

I don't know what you can make out of your marriage. I really don't. Neither do you, but it isn't looking good today. 

What I'm sure of is that accepting it as it is today is a necessary step toward doing something different tomorrow.

Conventional wisdom is that acceptance is a few steps along grieving past anger. You sound justifiably angry about it today. They aren't always that linear or complete either.

[MissyM]

Conventional wisdom is that acceptance is a few steps along grieving past anger

 

That has been true for me but I would say they were pretty big steps!  You will get there Vortex, it is a process and you seem to be making great strides.  It is two steps forward, one step back and not particularly easy or neat.

[formflier]

 

Vortex,

I'm thinking... .that there should be some middle ground between letting him be... .and trying to "control" him.

It seems to be a big deal to you that you "say something" to him.

I'm hoping we can work on changing your script some... .so that you still say something... but it comes off in a non-controlling way.  Basically... .periodically you make clear statements about your values for you and for the r/s.  You then drop the subject and live out your values.  Don't get drawn into any drama... .or sullen behavior from him.

It will most likely take a while for him to "get it" that you have really changed... .but ... .I think he will eventually get it.

Thoughts?

[Wanna Move On]

Yes, it IS possible to set relationship goals with a BPD partner: as long as it is set on THEIR (consistently subjective) terms!

[Notwendy]

I'm new to this board, but I have experience with 12 step groups. It's interesting that your H sort of upholds this with you, but I think he may feel the opposite. We have had issues with communication for a long time, but my H has always refused MT until finally we have one he likes. Before we did this, I had done a lot of my own personal work on my FOO issues, but my H had not shown any interest in doing that.

So finally we are in T, and the focus was on me- getting the label of codependency and advised to start a 12 step program. I felt very humiliated because it felt as if I was considered the problem. So, had he said anything to me about finishing the steps I would have felt very intruded on, and also feel even worse about being the one branded with the problem. His talking to me about what he wanted me to do in the program would have made me feel a lot of shame, something we both have plenty of already.

So back to the 12 steps. This is one of the best things I ever did for myself. The sponsor is the one who holds the person accountable- you don't need to do this. Also, there never really is a time when you finish the steps. Recovery is on going. Sometimes one needs to revisit them. Also, getting them and understanding them is different for everyone. It takes a lot of honestly as well as courage to let a sponsor hold your feet to the fire and not accept any BS. I don't think it is possible to do this with a spouse.

I also think that both people in a relationship could benefit from them- perhaps different groups, but I know this is not something my H would do, so there is still benefit when one person does them. How effective they are with someone who has a lot of denial and projection, I don't know, but what makes them more effective is the insight of the sponsor who has the same issues. If I had any advice to you, it would be to let the 12 step program be something your H does, and not get into it at all with him, even if you wish it, because getting into it might take away his responsibilty to do it himself.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex,

I'm thinking... .that there should be some middle ground between letting him be... .and trying to "control" him.

It seems to be a big deal to you that you "say something" to him.

I'm hoping we can work on changing your script some... .so that you still say something... but it comes off in a non-controlling way.  Basically... .periodically you make clear statements about your values for you and for the r/s.  You then drop the subject and live out your values.  Don't get drawn into any drama... .or sullen behavior from him.

It will most likely take a while for him to "get it" that you have really changed... .but ... .I think he will eventually get it.

Thoughts?

I agree with you that there should be some middle ground. That is what I would like to find. I doing a better job of stopping conversations and walking away when we start in with some of the same old patterns. My stopping the conversation and saying, "I can't continue having this conversation." is a big huge step. I could see where everything was going and I didn't want it to go there.

Yes, I feel a need to say something. We both agree that there is a lack of trust. I don't trust him. The only way for that trust to be rebuilt is if he follow through on what he says he is going to do. If he isn't following through, then I feel the need to say something because he doesn't even seem to notice his own lack of follow through. His perception is that things are improving and getting better. That maybe the case but I see most of the improvement happening as a result of me continuing to shut down and NOT say anything. It does stop the bleeding and it creates a more positive environment but it does nothing to address the underlying trust issues.

I will be honest here. I am seeing other people talk about encouraging partners or telling other partners what to do and it isn't being seen as controlling. Why is me wanting to rebuild the trust controlling? Why is me telling my husband what I need and want controlling? I feel like I am missing something here.

[vortex of confusion]

If I had any advice to you, it would be to let the 12 step program be something your H does, and not get into it at all with him, even if you wish it, because getting into it might take away his responsibilty to do it himself.

I don't interfere with his 12 step program. He goes whenever he wants and does pretty much whatever he wants. Do I ask him about his progress? I absolutely do. My husband is a sex addict and that greatly interferes with intimacy on ALL levels.

I think it is complete BS that I am now being told not to ask about his progress in his 12 step program because it might take away his responsibility to do it himself. Is there anything that I can ask about or talk about without being controlling or interfering with my husband? What is the point of any of this if I can't even have a conversation with my husband about what is going on in his world without worrying about controlling, setting him off, interfering with his motivation, blah, blah, blah?

[Cat Familiar]

The only way for that trust to be rebuilt is if he follow through on what he says he is going to do. If he isn't following through, then I feel the need to say something because he doesn't even seem to notice his own lack of follow through. His perception is that things are improving and getting better. That maybe the case but I see most of the improvement happening as a result of me continuing to shut down and NOT say anything. It does stop the bleeding and it creates a more positive environment but it does nothing to address the underlying trust issues.

I will be honest here. I am seeing other people talk about encouraging partners or telling other partners what to do and it isn't being seen as controlling. Why is me wanting to rebuild the trust controlling? Why is me telling my husband what I need and want controlling? I feel like I am missing something here.

Vortex, after following your story, it seems to me like the dynamic that has been set up between you and your husband over the years is a mother/son relationship. He is not an equal partner in childcare, housekeeping, cooking, cleaning, and other responsibilities that should be shared by marital partners.

Instead, he focuses solely upon things that are of interest to him: his gaming and his recovery.

You've had to take up the slack for years and he seems uninterested/unwilling/oblivious of how much you do.

Now with the 12 step stuff, it's almost like he's a kid in school with homework. He now has an excuse to not help with what should be shared responsibilities, because he's so completely narcissistically involved in his "recovery."

It's an untenable position for you. If I were in your shoes, I would be so incredibly frustrated and angry. And of course, the complicating factor is being responsible for four children.

I don't have any words of advice for you. I think you're doing your best in an extremely uncomfortable situation with a partner who is completely oblivious to your struggle.

   

[Notwendy]

I think you are in a difficult place and are doing the best you can with it. You can discuss the 12 step program with you H if you wish and yes, his addiction affects you. However the nature of the program is such that it is difficult to put the steps on a timeline and that in general, a sponsor is better at keeping accountability than a spouse because he/she is not as emotionally involved. I hoped that this information would help you when you are making agreements about the program with him.

[vortex of confusion]

I think you are in a difficult place and are doing the best you can with it. You can discuss the 12 step program with you H if you wish and yes, his addiction affects you. However the nature of the program is such that it is difficult to put the steps on a timeline and that in general, a sponsor is better at keeping accountability than a spouse because he/she is not as emotionally involved. I hoped that this information would help you when you are making agreements about the program with him.

I understand that 12 step programs are anonymous. I understand that going through the steps is an ongoing process. Some people work through the steps once and then choose to go through them again with a different sponsor to get a different perspective. Some people spend their entire lives working through the steps over and over and over again to help them stay in recovery. I understand that it is not my place to hold him accountable for his step work. That is the job of his sponsor. I get that. I get all of that.

I think it is okay for me to ask where he is at within the 12 steps. I think it is okay for me to ask him to tell me what the steps involve. Yes, I can read about the steps on my own and I have. I have even attended a few COSA 12 step meetings. I want some kind of reassurance the he is working on the steps and is in contact with his sponsor. He hasn't been in contact with his sponsor in quite a while. His first sponsor wasn't really available and didn't really hold him accountable. I am seeing the same pattern start to evolve with his current sponsor. I don't know if it because of my husband or if it is because of the sponsor. I tend to think it is my husband's lack of motivation. His excuses for not talking to his sponsor are that his sponsor is unavailable, blah, blah, blah. His sponsor can't hold him accountable for anything if he isn't even talking to him.

I think my concerns are very valid and I don't think that I am out of line for wanting some kind of reassurance. I don't think that I am out of line for wanting to find a way to rebuild some level of trust.

[Notwendy]

I think I understand what you are saying better and I don't think it's out of line to want to know that he is following through with the program.

Sadly, I also agree with you that the person needs to want to work with the sponsor for that relationship to work. I wish I knew how to make that happen, but I don't. I understand your frustration.

[Grey Kitty]

Keep in mind what you can do and what you can't do... .boundary enforcement vs rules:

"Work your 12 steps properly" is a rule. You are trying to get him to follow it, and he's blowing you off.

"If you aren't working your 12 steps, I will do 'X'" is boundary enforcement.

Fill in 'X'.

Hint: Nagging him to do it is a bad choice   The action that I can think of is leaving your marriage, although you might find something less drastic. I'm very aware that you aren't ready to do that today.

If I was going to enforce a boundary on that, I would probably tie it to specific behavior instead of treatment. There is specific behavior that you find unacceptable which he's trying to address in his sex addiction program, right?

[vortex of confusion]

"Work your 12 steps properly" is a rule. You are trying to get him to follow it, and he's blowing you off.

"If you aren't working your 12 steps, I will do 'X'" is boundary enforcement.

Fill in 'X'.

My problem is finding an X that I am willing and able to do that does not involve completely ending the marriage. I want to keep the kids in mind as well as practical matters such as finances, etc. I wonder if anybody has any suggestions or insights on how to enforce a boundary with regards to this.

Hint: Nagging him to do it is a bad choice   The action that I can think of is leaving your marriage, although you might find something less drastic. I'm very aware that you aren't ready to do that today.

One thing I am certain of is that I am not a nag. I have worked hard on not nagging since the beginning of our marriage as I have a mother that is a nag and I know that when somebody nags me I tend to dig in my heals and get a bad attitude rather than do it willingly. Even my husband has commented on the fact that I am not a nag. There have been times when he has mentioned that I need to remind him of things. That adds to it. His idea of me reminding him goes against my value to NOT nag. LOL

If I was going to enforce a boundary on that, I would probably tie it to specific behavior instead of treatment. There is specific behavior that you find unacceptable which he's trying to address in his sex addiction program, right?

I am not sure I can isolate a specific behavior. Generally speaking, the behavior that is bugging me the most is that I don't feel like he is taking things seriously. I have been trying to pick out a few things that I would like to see such as a straight forward checking in with me regarding where he is at with things. I am not as concerned about how far along he is as much as I am about him taking things more seriously. I am not even sure what that would look like.

In all honesty, I am not sure what he is trying to address in his sex addiction program other than his compulsivity regarding sex and sexual behaviors. I am not clear on what he wants out of the program. I don't think he is certain about what he wants from his therapist or his sponsor or anything else. I get the sense that he is doing these things hoping that these other people will guide him and he will figure it out somewhere along the way. It is all so very vague. I want something a little less vague.

[Grey Kitty]

If I was going to enforce a boundary on that, I would probably tie it to specific behavior instead of treatment. There is specific behavior that you find unacceptable which he's trying to address in his sex addiction program, right?

I am not sure I can isolate a specific behavior. Generally speaking, the behavior that is bugging me the most is that I don't feel like he is taking things seriously. I have been trying to pick out a few things that I would like to see such as a straight forward checking in with me regarding where he is at with things. I am not as concerned about how far along he is as much as I am about him taking things more seriously. I am not even sure what that would look like.

In all honesty, I am not sure what he is trying to address in his sex addiction program other than his compulsivity regarding sex and sexual behaviors. I am not clear on what he wants out of the program. I don't think he is certain about what he wants from his therapist or his sponsor or anything else. I get the sense that he is doing these things hoping that these other people will guide him and he will figure it out somewhere along the way. It is all so very vague. I want something a little less vague.

Is the vague pot is calling the kettle vague? You want something less vague, but you can't say specifically what it is?

Keep working on it. The most concrete thing you mentioned in this was "his compulsivity regarding sex and sexual behaviors." Everything else was either vague or tracking/managing his recovery, which isn't your job.

[Crumbling]

VC, I just want to make sure I understand the situation... .you two still live in the same house, right?  So you see him go to his meetings, listening to him talk about his recovery, but not seeing any clear results or changes, and most of the time he goes about his days doing his things and you go about your days doing your things.  Ships passing in the night sort of deal?

[Crumbling]

I hear so much frustration in your words... .and you need to see change, any sort of change... .a plan of action... .you've said before that you feel like you need space, and this is a deciding factor in how or when to cut ties and go separate ways... .I'm just brainstorming facts here... .

[Crumbling]

I'm sorry, V, I have nothin.  Have you tried the deciding board?

GK's pushy, but he's got lots of good advice here.  I think getting bogged down in little details is less important, and focusing on the larger more concrete issues a better route.  What is your deal breaker?  :)o you have one?  Start with what you know, and go from there.

 

[vortex of confusion]

VC, I just want to make sure I understand the situation... .you two still live in the same house, right?  So you see him go to his meetings, listening to him talk about his recovery, but not seeing any clear results or changes, and most of the time he goes about his days doing his things and you go about your days doing your things.  Ships passing in the night sort of deal?

Yes, we still live in the same house. I know when he goes to his meetings. I listen to him talk about his recovery. I do not see any clear results or changes. He goes about his day and does his thing. We talk a lot but it is usually me listening to him give me vague information about his recovery. I am not trying to manage his recovery. That is his and his alone. Him going to meetings does not mean that he is talking to his sponsor. Him and his sponsor don't always attend the same meetings. I don't want to track the specifics of his recovery as much I want to know whether or not he is talking to his sponsor. When I ask about whether or not he has talked to his sponsor, I get vague responses that are full of excuses.

I want to address what Grey Kitty said as well:

Is the vague pot is calling the kettle vague? You want something less vague, but you can't say specifically what it is?

Keep working on it. The most concrete thing you mentioned in this was "his compulsivity regarding sex and sexual behaviors." Everything else was either vague or tracking/managing his recovery, which isn't your job.

I do not think it is the vague pot calling the kettle vague. I am bothered by his lack of follow through across the board whether it be talking to his sponsor or stacking up the dishes. The problem is that when I have tried to identify specific behaviors I am told that I am trying to be controlling or that I am trying to manage him and that I don't have any right to do those things.

To me, the compulsivity is very vague because it can't really be identified specifically. His sexual impulsivity is something that happens within him and doesn't have as big of an impact on me as things like lack of honesty or lack of being straight forward.

Him talking in circles is something else that bugs me. I have been able to address that by walking away from the conversation.

I will admit that I am getting really annoyed because I feel like everything I am doing is being shot down or criticized because it is either too vague or too something.

Here are the things that really irk me:

-Him playing his computer games.

-Him talking in circles.

-Him not following through.

-Him putting himself ahead of everyone else.

Those are just a few things and the reality is that is just who he is and I have to radically accept it all and there is nothing that I can do about it other than set boundaries to protect myself. Most of the crap that I have listed here has nothing to do with boundaries but are behaviors that impact me and the kids indirectly.