(Non-)Progress on depression

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I've posted before re. my depression. I've basically figured 'everything' out - my entire life has consisted of abuse. My parents abused me mentally, physically and through food (making me obese as a child), etc, etc. My family-of-origin is in ruins, with both me and my sister being in really bad places with regard to mental health. We both manage, have really high income and get on with life, but neither of us enjoy life. My father is an alcoholic and my mother is a BPD crybaby victim, blaming me for everything (and always have).

Basically, I cannot enjoy anything in life anymore. I don't hate life, just as you wouldn't hate a really, really boring movie. You just sigh at it and turn it off. And that's what I want to do with life. Not because I hate it, but because it basically all feels pointless.

I've tried so many different jobs (computer programmer with really high income, solicitor/lawyer, starting my own pretty successful companies, worked with some of the top names in this country with photography, got a really low-paying job making ice cream, been on front pages of news papers due to accomplishments (they even wrote about me in neighboring countries and I got a shout out from the KING in this country via media [being absolutely serious here]). I've tried working out, I've tried meditation. I've tried hobbies: bicycling, building my own bike from pieces (restoring a half-a-century old bike), painting, walks, hiking, running, climbing, parties, photography, home automation (since I'm a computer programmer). I've tried dating: I basically feel nothing. I feel that no one understands my perspective on life and I don't feel attracted to anyone beyond a sexual attraction that lasts for a single evening. I've tried spoiling myself: I bought really expensive sports cars with 500+ horse powers, I bought a gold watch for $7000 just because (the amount of attention I got from women because of this made me despise women to an enormous degree - all of a sudden, I was the most interesting person ever... .sigh). I've now also tried drugs (mushrooms, which is a super pleasant experience, but not making any long-lasting change). I've been to therapy for years.

Sorry for making this some kind of bragging list, but I really want to point out that I am *seriously* out of ideas here.

The only single thing I can think of that I haven't tried and that stands out is having children, which I will absolutely not do until I fix myself.

What the **** do I do? Do I just accept that life is pointless and meaningless and give up? I just want to feel at home in a loving way together with someone. Why can't I? Is this crap life? Why do we stay alive? It makes no difference to me whether I stare at a wall or sit in an expensive car in the sunset.

[LonelyChild]

I've posted before re. my depression. I've basically figured 'everything' out - my entire life has consisted of abuse. My parents abused me mentally, physically and through food (making me obese as a child), etc, etc. My family-of-origin is in ruins, with both me and my sister being in really bad places with regard to mental health. We both manage, have really high income and get on with life, but neither of us enjoy life. My father is an alcoholic and my mother is a BPD crybaby victim, blaming me for everything (and always have).

Basically, I cannot enjoy anything in life anymore. I don't hate life, just as you wouldn't hate a really, really boring movie. You just sigh at it and turn it off. And that's what I want to do with life. Not because I hate it, but because it basically all feels pointless.

I've tried so many different jobs (computer programmer with really high income, solicitor/lawyer, starting my own pretty successful companies, worked with some of the top names in this country with photography, got a really low-paying job making ice cream, been on front pages of news papers due to accomplishments (they even wrote about me in neighboring countries and I got a shout out from the KING in this country via media [being absolutely serious here]). I've tried working out, I've tried meditation. I've tried hobbies: bicycling, building my own bike from pieces (restoring a half-a-century old bike), painting, walks, hiking, running, climbing, parties, photography, home automation (since I'm a computer programmer). I've tried dating: I basically feel nothing. I feel that no one understands my perspective on life and I don't feel attracted to anyone beyond a sexual attraction that lasts for a single evening. I've tried spoiling myself: I bought really expensive sports cars with 500+ horse powers, I bought a gold watch for $7000 just because (the amount of attention I got from women because of this made me despise women to an enormous degree - all of a sudden, I was the most interesting person ever... .sigh). I've now also tried drugs (mushrooms, which is a super pleasant experience, but not making any long-lasting change). I've been to therapy for years.

Sorry for making this some kind of bragging list, but I really want to point out that I am *seriously* out of ideas here.

The only single thing I can think of that I haven't tried and that stands out is having children, which I will absolutely not do until I fix myself.

What the **** do I do? Do I just accept that life is pointless and meaningless and give up? I just want to feel at home in a loving way together with someone. Why can't I? Is this crap life? Why do we stay alive? It makes no difference to me whether I stare at a wall or sit in an expensive car in the sunset.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

What you've described sounds similar to what I've experienced in my life. I'm going to describe what I went through and how I got the help I needed to finally enjoy my life. I'm hoping it helps you even just a little bit. If anything, I now believe there is hope. I am glad you are reaching out for help.

I was emotionally shutdown pretty much my entire life. I now know this was due to an abusive childhood and years of abusive relationships (I'm in my 40s). I now know it was my way of coping with the trauma of abuse. I felt apathy for nearly everything. It didn't matter who I was with or what I had or what jobs I had. I knew how to "fake it" so other people thought I was fine. I even have a successful career. Inside I really wasn't fine. I felt depressed most times and rarely got excited about anything which was pointed out to me on numerous occasions. I was in and out of therapy for many years for depression. I was even suicidal at times. Nothing seemed to help. I just went through the motions day by day and I hated it.

Long story short, a few years ago I was diagnosed as having PTSD from abusive relationships including my childhood. Knowing that pointed me to a good trauma therapist. From her, I learned that I did not get my emotional needs met as a child which had a huge impact on my life as an adult. I also never dealt with the abuse with a good therapist to get to the root of my depression until now. My trauma therapist leads me through EMDR therapy which has done wonders for me. She is also helping me do inner child work. Whenever I had heard of "inner child work" before, I scoffed at it thinking it sounded stupid and wishy-washy. I put my skepticism aside and trusted her to help me work on it anyway. I was so wrong! It is just what I needed. Working on my inner child has helped me to make sense of my childhood and my life and why I felt the way I did. I needed to dig into the root of what happened to me in order to feel the original pain so I can grieve properly for it. I never got to grieve or express myself during my childhood. All of those emotions got stored up and I never got to release them until now. Going through the work of feeling those childhood emotions and processing them with a good therapist, helps me to release it so I can now move on with my life. I hope I explained it so it makes sense.

I'm not saying this is what you need to do or that it's a magical cure-all. I'm not a therapist or an expert. It took a lot of hard work on my part and it was very difficult at times to process what happened to me, to actually feel the emotions, and to finally be able to deal with it and move on with my life. I've been doing this for about three years now and I'm still amazed at the progress I've made. Some sessions feel brutal at first but I stick with it and am able to get through it and feel "lighter" and "stronger". It's hard for me to find the right words to explain sometimes. It feels like I've come out of a fog or have woken up from a coma. I actually feel "alive". My co-workers, family, and friends have noticed it too. They tell me I seem so much more "alive" now.

I now love life and I actually feel present in the moments. Sunsets now move me to tears because I find them so beautiful. Before I would shrug them off with "meh". I can actually FEEL my emotions now - ALL of them, the good and the bad. And I know how to deal with the bad ones appropriately so I don't shut down again. I've learned what triggers me - what sets me down the depression and apathy paths as well as others - and why. So I can deal with them in a healthy way instead of shutting down. I believe I couldn't have done this work without a good trauma therapist. I wouldn't have known where to start.

I really feel for you. It sounds similar to what I went through to a point. I am glad I didn't give up, though. Please don't give up.

I'm glad I didn't give up because I believe I have finally found my soul mate and we are in a very healthy and loving relationship. I have never had this with anyone before. During my therapy, I learned that in the past, I always picked the same type of person to be with. They were abusive. I now can recognize the patterns and connect the dots as to why I chose to be with them. I can now spot what is unhealthy and toxic behavior in people, for the most part. It helped me to stop the cycle of abuse.

I hope you find what you are looking for. I really do. *hugs*

[LonelyChild]

... .

This was the first reply in a very long time that has given me any hope. Perhaps I can find someone willing to work through EMDR and do "inner child work" with me. I've heard the terms (and read a few book on EMDR) but never tried it. I brought up EMDR with my current P but he said it was not appropriate in my case. Will bring it up again. I really hope I can get to the point you describe, actually feeling something. :-(

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I am glad to hear you have hope. I believe that having hope can make a world of difference. I am curious as to why your current P doesn't think EMDR is appropriate in your case. It may not be for some reason. I don't know. I'm far from an expert.  Maybe there is a different technique or approach that is more appropriate for you. Is your P experienced in trauma therapy? I had to find someone who was experienced in dealing with trauma to make progress. Maybe he can help you with inner child work or recommend someone who can. My therapist recommended the book "Homecoming" to me by John Bradshaw. I've only started reading it and I feel it is spot on so far. If you go that route, I highly recommend doing the inner child work with a therapist. The author also recommends this. I really hope you find what you need.

[LonelyChild]

I am glad to hear you have hope. I believe that having hope can make a world of difference. I am curious as to why your current P doesn't think EMDR is appropriate in your case. It may not be for some reason. I don't know. I'm far from an expert.  Maybe there is a different technique or approach that is more appropriate for you. Is your P experienced in trauma therapy? I had to find someone who was experienced in dealing with trauma to make progress. Maybe he can help you with inner child work or recommend someone who can. My therapist recommended the book "Homecoming" to me by John Bradshaw. I've only started reading it and I feel it is spot on so far. If you go that route, I highly recommend doing the inner child work with a therapist. The author also recommends this. I really hope you find what you need.

My P says that, because there is no specific trauma, EMDR is not relevant. He's said many times that, because of the nature of my childhood (no specific events of abuse, but rather an on-going abuse throughout my entire life up to my 20's) there's no specific trauma to treat, and so EMDR would not be helpful.

I'm going to read the book you suggested.

[roberto516]

I'm going to be honest. The reason nothing is working is because you are chasing something you (or anyone) cant ever achieve. Everlasting happiness and joy. It sounds like just being "okay" isn't doing it for you. But thats the secret to life. Embrace being okay. It sounds like you are trying to fill your happiness cup up with external stuff and you are completely unaware there is a hole at the bottom of the cup. No matter how much you pour it's going to always drain out.

I see it all too clearly. Hope this didn't come off too strong.

[LonelyChild]

I'm going to be honest. The reason nothing is working is because you are chasing something you (or anyone) cant ever achieve. Everlasting happiness and joy. It sounds like just being "okay" isn't doing it for you. But thats the secret to life. Embrace being okay. It sounds like you are trying to fill your happiness cup up with external stuff and you are completely unaware there is a hole at the bottom of the cup. No matter how much you pour it's going to always drain out.

I see it all too clearly. Hope this didn't come off too strong.

The problem is that I don't feel ok. I would be content with that. I have anxiety and depression 24/7. The only time I feel ok is when I'm asleep.

[Harri]

Hi!  I'm so sorry that things are and have been such a struggle.  I can relate to a lot of what you wrote about in terms of your feelings.

One thing that makes a difference for me is medication for depression and anxiety (SSRIs in both cases).  It took a bit to get the right dosing and combo but the meds have been a huge help.  Have you tried any?  I know a lot of people are against using drugs and i was too at one point, but I finally hollered uncle and tried them again.  Anyway, I do not want to promote something you may not be interested in.

I am also wondering if getting involved in some type of volunteer organization or activity may help.  Work at a soup kitchen or volunteer to take elderly and disabled to appointments and such.  Or get involved in a horse therapy program.  Volunteer in a computer lab to help kids.  Anything that gets you outside of your comfort zone and takes your mind off of you.

I will say that I too have had a lifetime of abuse and I am currently in trauma therapy again after a long break from it.  One of the reasons I had stopped was because I reached the point of saying okay, so I've figured a lot of this stuff out and know a lot of the why's but what now?  Being able to see things in the past and how they affect us today is all fine and dandy but nothing changes if we stop there.  I am wondering if jump starting yourself in ways you may not have tried may help?

Also, EMDR works for some to work through trauma, but when I tried it years ago, it did nothing.  Looking back, I can see how I really did not believe in it but also, it wasn't right for me. 

anyway, I hope something can change for you.  Living the way you feel is so draining and it is so hard to find purpose in life.  I have been struggling with the same thing though things have gotten much better for me.  It did get worse before it got better though.

I hope you can find some kind of answer.

[foggydew]

Hey, lonely child, nice to hear from you. Sorry you are feeling life isn't so good. I've had this for the last 9 years - and it would still be ok if I didn't see tomorrow. But in the last two weeks, for no apparent reason. something has changed. Just changed. Nothing I want, nobody I want, though some people have, for a change, indicated that I anm not totally irrelevant in their lives. Distance has helped. The realisation that this is my life, and I might as well enjoy what I've got... be it a glass of wine, or a hug, or a book, or reading what you have written. So thanks for your contribution to my life. May yours change suddenly too ... perhaps it is all just a chemical imbalance...

[I_Am_The_Fire]

My P says that, because there is no specific trauma, EMDR is not relevant. He's said many times that, because of the nature of my childhood (no specific events of abuse, but rather an on-going abuse throughout my entire life up to my 20's) there's no specific trauma to treat, and so EMDR would not be helpful.

I'm going to read the book you suggested.

I realize that EMDR isn't for everyone. I hope that book helps, though.

I'm not an expert. Based on what I know, I find it hard to comprehend that there were no specific events of abuse, just on-going abuse. Does that mean nothing stands out as an example of abuse? I'm not trying to pry. Just trying to understand better.

Here is part of my story that I hope may help. I ask that you consider this only if you want to. Or in that this may help someone else.

Before I had started EMDR, I disregarded a lot of events from my childhood as insignificant. I shrugged them off as nothing important. I've since learned that some of them were actually very significant in my life. For example, when I was 4 years old my father told me one day to not look in the back of the truck. Until he had said that, it hadn't occurred to me to even go near the truck. So what does a curious 4 year old do? Look in the back of the truck. He saw me do it (pretty sure he was watching me and it was a test, knowing what I know about him) and the punishment was severe to me. Discipline is one thing. Repeated painful beatings for what seemed like an insignificant fraction, is another thing to me. It became a pattern and I learned to just do as I was told no matter what it was or how uncomfortable it made me feel.

I learned during my sessions that is when I started to dissociate. It seemed he was trying to reinforce blind obedience. For example, asking questions (even for clarification and asked in a respectful way) was treated as being disrespectful and as talking back and the repercussions were not pretty (beatings and verbal abuse). I had learned from then on to do everything I was told to do without question, especially from authority figures. It set me up to accept a lifetime of abuse. Later on in my life, I "let" boyfriends abuse me (for example, one threatened to kill my friends and family if I left him).  I did exactly as they told me to do, not questioning any of it until now.  I thought I deserved all of it and that it was normal. By the way, there was nothing in the back of the truck except for some pebbles, nothing dangerous. That's one reason why I felt it was a "trap" or a "test".

The point I'm trying to make is that what happened in the past that I had deemed insignificant turned out to be actually fairly significant. It took me awhile to "back track" to this event as being significant. I had to start with what was going on currently in my life, such as a "discussion" with my now ex husband. I now know those "discussions" were actually verbal attacks on me as a person (i.e., toxic shame) and I would dissociate. Some times he would ask me a "simple" question about something I said or did. If I asked him an honest question back for clarification (such as "why are you asking me that?", he would then accuse me of being sarcastic and would then start yelling at me. If my answer didn't match the one he came up with, then he would accuse me of lying and start yelling at me. At that point, I wouldn't be able recall what was said specifically other than what he started saying to me and that my anxiety sky-rocketed and I then emotionally/mentally "checked out" and went numb. It was a defense mechanism I had learned as a young child. His "simple" questions, felt like a trap which eventually related (for me) back to how I felt when I believe my father "set me up" as well. I'm not sure if any of this even makes sense to anyone.

During the majority of my marriage (up until I woke up), I never questioned anything my now ex asked me. I automatically answered him regardless of what it was. I got good at saying what I thought he wanted to hear. I was very co-dependent. By doing this, I avoided any chance of conflict. Everything was "fine" and unemotional. My life felt very "meh".  I started to "wake up" when I realized one day that I hated how he treated me and I found myself crying at the "littlest" things.  When I started to "wake up" is when I started to question his questions and such. This is when things got bad and would trigger me to dissociate and eventually lead me to the path I am on now (a long story).

Regardless, I do hope you find what does work for you.

[patientandclear]

LC, I've written to you before that I identify with your experience. Despite some
serious abuse in adult relationships, I never experienced lack of meaning till my BPD relationship disintegrated, but since then, I've come to understand very well what you're talking about.

Eventually through a godsend therapist I was able to take those reactions seriously as trauma-based reactions and engage in effective therapy designed for trauma recovery. (I had tried EMDR and did not find it effective for me, probably because as your therapist said EMDR targets the traumatic impact of specific events more than relational trauma. I mention this not to discourage EMDR but to ward off discouragement if you don't find it effective for you.)

There is an emerging family of Jungian-based trauma treatment approaches I've used and found remarkably impactful; the cumulative effect takes time but things moved for me after even one session. It's not that everything is peaches and cream, but how I feel about everything is different and my own emotional capacity is radically different. I suspect if you went in focusing on this feeling of blah emptiness that a lot would start to shift.

The approaches that were impactful for me were sensorimotor psychotherapy and lifespan integration. If you search either you'll find lists of therapists trained in these methods.

I still spend time in the "nothing means anything place." But not all the time. And when I do lifespan integration in a sustained way, I find that I enjoy things that used to be meaningful to me and do them well and that then generates more meaning.

I thought I was "better" and stopped for a few months and the "nothing means anything" feeling was starting to move back in; so I just restarted LI yesterday. Today feels better.

On another point--I commend you for your self-awareness and integrity in deciding not to have kids just in the hopes that they would fill the void. Your possible future kids thank you too <3