Think I finally realized what he REALLY means at times

[isilme]

So H and I are both artists, both like to make and create things from digital creations to painting, to more textile crafts.  He seems to have more trouble than I do at picking things to do, or being motivated to do them.  And I think I finally got the reason, yesterday.  I make things for the simple pleasure of making things.  Sure, I like people to enjoy them, and everyone likes praise, but I don't make things FOR the praise, or even just to make money off anything I make.  I make them because it makes my hands, head and heart happy.  I'm actually surprised people sometimes buy things I make, or will pay me for services I don't really think much of.

H, on the other hand, also likes to make things, once he's started, but in the end, he NEEDS/WANTS the recognition for it.  For him, it's more about the end result of the validation he thinks he should get for a project.  If he thinks validation and recogition are not guranteed, he won't do the project.  If he does not get the "right" response, he gets moody and in a funk about how he will never make anything again, how he's a failure, it's a waste, etc.

Now, anyone who has dabbled at all in making anything, from cakes to drawing, knows that other people too easily dismiss the time, effort, and yes, even talent, it can take to actually make something.  So, the validation he WANTS is often not on par with what he actually gets.  People who don't know a project took him 15 hours to finish can easily assume it was just a quick slap dash project, and therefore will not know they are being rude and not giving him the appreciation he craves.

And, add to this a long standing desire of his to be known as a writer.  A small, local comic-con i coming up in about 9 months.  I know we will go, and I'd be fine just going to see what they manage to pull together.  But H won't be happy with anything less than his own finished comic, a booth, and recognition for his efforts.  And now I can see how my statements have been invalidating, because I'm like, "If you want to write it, write it... .it doesn't matter beyond that what happens."  But to him, that's the whole point.  Not just to get a story out of his head, but to be recognized for it. 

So my confusion and frustration at him for always bemoaning never doing projects I know he could do if he'd just apply himself and do them makes a little more sense, now.  He feels it's a waste of time if he is not renown for the project.  It's not just about getting it done (which I think is what drives most people who get published after a while).  It's about being at least mildly well known for doing it.  So not only is he having to work past his own perfectionist nature when trying to write... .he is desperate for people to praise him for any end product, and that's his main motivation.  And that is probably why he has not and may not ever finish a big project like this.  Adulation is not guaranteed, and so he cannot commit to it.  And all this time (20+ years), I have been confused as to why he simply. does. not. sit. down. and. freakin. write/draw/paint, etc. For me, I get an idea, I jsut want to make it.  I might hide it away and never share the painting, I just needed to do it.  It takes a lot for me to want to show things to anyone.  He NEEDS to show things to people, while at the same time dreading their input. 

Just needed to type that out to see if it sounds okay as I write it.  It felt like an epiphany last night when I relaized this.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[heartandwhole]

Hi isilme,

I think it makes a ton of sense, and it does sound like you are on to something. I can relate to both your position, and your husband's.  If I do decide to share something I've created, and it gets rejected, then I get down on myself and feel less motivated to try again. But I also enjoy doing creative things just for the hell of it—because it feels great to do, and no one has to see any of it.

I'm curious to know if your H will confirm your theory?

heartandwhole

[livednlearned]

This makes so much sense! My son's father (N/BPD) is very artistic and creative. Every meal he makes, which is often gourmet and painstakingly made, always from scratch and usually complex, he stages before he eats and then posts it to Facebook.

Same thing with his writing, and his music. He has scanned all of his drawings and posts them on Facebook, too.

Everything ends up on Facebook, where he gets lots of validation without ever having to leave the house  

[isilme]

I doubt he will ever directly confirm my theory.  I think I will just have to observe and see if it pans out, and maybe, when it's not poking the tiger, probe a bit to see if he agrees it's more about how he feels others perceive his efforts than any direct need to just make something. 

Again, I'm an artist, too, and I know how nice it can be for others to say nice things about something you brought into being... .but it's often not my main focus for making.  I really just want to see if I can do it, and feel joy and pride all by myself for doing so.  But I grew up a neglected only child, and think I'm just more used to doings things just for myself.  He is a middle child, and that alone could make him feel disregarded.  He feels disregarded and ignored even if people ARE listening to him.  It's the forever negative BPD nothing is good enough as far as validation, attention, or recognition is concerned.  I SEE people give him compliments, tell him positive things, and he goes home and complains that no one liked what he did and about how much of a failure he is, how no one listens, how his painting/writing/etc sucks because no one gives him positive feedback.  In a way, I guess it might be similar to the love-language conundrum - because no one seems to know how he needs to hear/see/feel validation, he never seems to get what he wants.  And I don't know how to address that. 

Last night, he asked a question about converting a recipe.  I told him I did not know how, but I'd look it up, grabbed my phone.  This set him off, because what I thought was helpful, he took as frustrated and "snippy" and of course at that point I am now "always snippy" with him.  It' like he just wants me to sit there, rapt at him asking questions I can't answer.  I'm like do you just want to talk at me?  or do you want answers?  This devolved into me being too much into social media because I have my iPad out part fo the evening (to him I am on there 5 hours straight, obviously chatting about him or cheating.  I am doing none of the above, most often I am looking up patterns for well, projects I am making for Christmas as gifts).  He's done this before, gotten mad if I am reading a book - it's "abandoning him" for me to read a book while he wathes a movie I don't care about. 

Sorry - I guess the majority of BPD issues come from not understanding what they want or need, and so communication breaks down badly.  I have always thought he was just stuck with low self-esteem about starting a project and sticking with it.  And yes, it's kinda that, but it's more his need to know people will see it, love it, and tell him how wonderful, talented, and great he is.  It's not just the same fear I get about the first stroke of a painting, or the first cut on limited fabric before sewing.

[Philingood2]

Great insight. Now, what to do with it? My experience here has been that the tone of the board is about the actions that can be taken to improve the relationship. Have you checked out any of the resources on Validation or communication? Those resources alone have made a serious difference in the way I interact with my uBPDw (and how she responds). Welcome and I'm glad to hear you're making some sense of the craziness of a BPD relationship.

[Jessica84]

That's a great revelation. I love those a-ha moments when they happen! 

My bf does EVERYHTHING for credit, praise, attention, validation... .and God forbid if anyone doesn't give it, or worse -- tries to naysay it, debate his intentions, or take credit away from him. He expects everyone to glorify him for doing something no one asked him to do in the first place!

Recently he tried to organized a big event. Took him weeks of planning, making phone calls, sending emails, getting supplies, etc.  He set a high and arbitrary goal of getting a certain number of people to attend. People were either supportive but unable to go, or outright argued why he shouldn't do it. By the end, he was completely frustrated, attacked and unfriended people on facebook, attacked me and anyone else who might've tried to steal his thunder.

I helped him with one task. He got mad because he wanted something different the day of the event (he gave me the project the night before) - I said "I'm sorry you are disappointed. I did the best I could on short notice. I worked on it last night and spent 2 hours on it this morning. I wish I had more time to help." Wrong answer. I was scolded with "I've spent 150,000 hours on this!" I should've left it at "I'm sorry you are disappointed." 

[isilme]

Philingood2,

I'm trying to figure out how to make use of this.  The first step is for me to stop suggesting he just tackle a project and stop waffling.  I thought he just had super cold feet about everything, and so tried to encourage from that point of understanding.  Now, I know he is obsessed with a legacy.  We don't plan to have children.  And honestly, with my upbringing in an abusive home, and his emotional "handicaps", I don't think seeking to have kids is the best idea for us.  But at this point in his life, 39, he is worrying more and more about being forgotten, never being known for anything, and the light bulb of what he is really saying started to turn on.  I had tried as many ways as I could to get him started on a project, thinking that is what he needed.  No.  He wants PR.  So, I need to re-think how to validate when I can as I can in a way he wants that he actually hears/feels. 

Jessica,

Yeah, it does not seem to be helpful to point out any hardship you may face if your pwBPD is feeling ill-used.  I get frustrated at times because H likes to lump me in with the world when he is feeling upset, and I get the blame of all that he is upset about, whether I had anything to do with it or not.  Sometimes, I DO point out, "hey, I am the only person who pretty much helps you in every way possible, stop accusing me of things that person X has done."  Sometimes it works, sometimes it get rebuffed into how I deserve it anyway.