Were you taught life skills by BPD mother?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I have been reading about the symptoms of NPD v BPD and was hoping to get some comparative points. If you had a mwBPD, did they do much housework? Drive you to places? teach you hygiene skills (eg brushing your teeth, wearing fresh clothes every day etc)

Did they teach you how to do chores? (We were given typed out lists but the punished for getting stuff wrong. I remember getting woken up from sleep dragged out of bed by my ear because I refused to wash my parents' dirty ashtrays as I HATED cigarette butts. Mind you everything else was done perfectly O)

Also did they attend school events with you? Like assemblies, presentations, concerts, parent aid etc? Did they drive themselves or transport themselves independently like public trains/buses etc? Or let you suffer from your mistakes in a disproportionate way? (Eg "You wanted those shoes even though I liked the other ones so you can wear them to school and just put up with the blisters. Oh and you'll have to clean those socks that you bled over. Can't you look after anything I buy you? They were expensive you know."

Curious to know the similarities or dissimilarities. Thank you!

[Ziggiddy]

I have been reading about the symptoms of NPD v BPD and was hoping to get some comparative points. If you had a mwBPD, did they do much housework? Drive you to places? teach you hygiene skills (eg brushing your teeth, wearing fresh clothes every day etc)

Did they teach you how to do chores? (We were given typed out lists but the punished for getting stuff wrong. I remember getting woken up from sleep dragged out of bed by my ear because I refused to wash my parents' dirty ashtrays as I HATED cigarette butts. Mind you everything else was done perfectly O)

Also did they attend school events with you? Like assemblies, presentations, concerts, parent aid etc? Did they drive themselves or transport themselves independently like public trains/buses etc? Or let you suffer from your mistakes in a disproportionate way? (Eg "You wanted those shoes even though I liked the other ones so you can wear them to school and just put up with the blisters. Oh and you'll have to clean those socks that you bled over. Can't you look after anything I buy you? They were expensive you know."

Curious to know the similarities or dissimilarities. Thank you!

[Lily77]

Interesting thread!

If you had a mwBPD, did they do much housework?

A bit, but our house was never as clean as my friends' houses. It would generally be pretty messy. I think my mother mainly cleaned when we had company coming, or it just got too bad. She definitely wasn't consistent with assigning us chores to help out. She would mainly use chores as punishment. When she got angry, she would often throw in the fact that we weren't helping around the house and then say--now you're going to have to do X. But then she'd often forget after a few days, so there was never any routine established.

Drive you to places? teach you hygiene skills (eg brushing your teeth, wearing fresh clothes every day etc)

Yes to driving. Sort of to hygiene. We brushed our teeth twice a day, and brushed our hair. She wasn't too picky about how often we bathed, though, and we never had a washer or dryer growing up, so it was standard to wear our clothes more than one time before it when in the laundry hamper.

Did they teach you how to do chores?

Not really. My mother would be very impatient and expect you to already know how to do something, or get it the first go around. If you didn't, she would often say "Forget it, just let me do it."  She would also make me go in and do errands she didn't want to do. I used to get panicky because I often times didn't know what to do or say, and she would get impatient with me.

Also did they attend school events with you? Like assemblies, presentations, concerts, parent aid etc? Did they drive themselves or transport themselves independently like public trains/buses etc?

Yes to both of these.

Or let you suffer from your mistakes in a disproportionate way? (Eg "You wanted those shoes even though I liked the other ones so you can wear them to school and just put up with the blisters. Oh and you'll have to clean those socks that you bled over. Can't you look after anything I buy you? They were expensive you know." YES! My mother did this all the time.

[isshebpd]

From the Grade 3 (age 8) onwards, I was consistently late for school. I walked by myself or with friends I met along the way, and frequently got distracted. Even though this was the main problem identified on my report cards, my parents never really dealt with it. I learned to be "on time" when I started working in my teens.

The fact that I made average, sometimes above average, grades though school (participating in all areas, including music) meant that I was never enough of a problem to get attention from the system. Sometimes I wish I'd been even worse behaved. Maybe I would have received some help.

When I started working in my teens, an older co-worker kept bugging me about the cuts on my face. ":)idn't your Dad teach you to shave?" To which an older female worker, told him to stop bothering me. Truth is, my Dad barely taught me to shave. He gave me cheap plastic razors, usually used for travelling, for me to shave my face with my inexperienced hands. My enDad is a Professional Engineer, BTW.

I was taught to do outside chores by enDad. Mainly tending to the lawn. I didn't dare do anything inside around my uBPDmom. It was better to leave a near empty container in the fridge, than bring attention to yourself by dealing with it. To this day, I feel uneasy around dishwashers. But, of course, I got blasted for not doing enough. A no-win situation.

When my enDad realized the extent my drug and alcohol abuse as a teen, he just yelled at me, made feel stupid, and finally pushed me so I fell back (thankfully onto my bed). He didn't care to find out why I was messed up, no doubt because he was a large part of it.

Since I was in school, working, playing sports and not getting arrested (pure luck), they didn't care about what I was doing as a teen. Well, except when they forced me to go to church.

Life skills were rarely taught in an environment dominated by my enDad tending to uBPDmom's volatile emotions.

[Ziggiddy]

Thanks for these replies. It helps to make sense of fragmented ideas for me.

Lily77:

A bit, but our house was never as clean as my friends' houses. It would generally be pretty messy.

I relate to this. My mother had classic hoarding disorder so the place was always a junkheap. She used to buy excessive stuff and always be asking people to get her things - eg collectibles from overseas etc. She also didn't let anybody else throw stuff out - she'd rescue that too. And when our rooms were filled with junk (we were not even allowed to throw the boxes/wrapping stuff came in out) we'd get in trouble for having messy rooms!

My mother would be very impatient and expect you to already know how to do something, or get it the first go around. If you didn't, she would often say "Forget it, just let me do it."  She would also make me go in and do errands she didn't want to do. I used to get panicky because I often times didn't know what to do or say, and she would get impatient with me.

TOTALLY relate to this!

issheBPD

Thanks for this insight.

From the Grade 3 (age 8) onwards, I was consistently late for school. I walked by myself or with friends I met along the way, and frequently got distracted. Even though this was the main problem identified on my report cards, my parents never really dealt with it. I learned to be "on time" when I started working in my teens.

This is actually something I wondered about. My mother was always late. Still is. Always. And ALWAYS blames it on someone else. I also remember being quite free to wander round the neighbourhood at a ridiculously young age - crossing main roads at 4 - walking several miles across town at age 7. Sometimes then getting in trouble for not wearing a jumper when it was cold. Huh? 

When my enDad realized the extent my drug and alcohol abuse as a teen, he just yelled at me, made feel stupid, and finally pushed me so I fell back (thankfully onto my bed). He didn't care to find out why I was messed up, no doubt because he was a large part of it.

I'm sorry that happened to you. No one should get that kind of treatment. I relate also about the drug and alcohol problems and the lack of understanding or help. My folks found some contraband in my room and instead of asking about it, left it on my bed and said "If it happens again you're out." Didn't want to know why or help me stop although I would have been open to it - already wanted to quit. The drinking. Ah well. We were given alcohol 'as a treat' since we were really young - I think the first time I was drunk was when I was 10. oddly enough (!) it was the worst year for the physical abuse) I got in trouble, not for getting drunk but for STEALING THEIR ALCOHOL! Wth?

Anyhow thanks for your honesty, guys - I appreciate the help.

[justchillinit]

I rarely remember my mother doing housework that actually was productive, I would consider the house consistently cluttered unless we had a large family gathering where space was needed (i.e. she would usually just move her excessive amount of useless things into a different corner). She paid my grandmother to come to our house 3-5 days a week to clean, take care of pets, drive me and my brothers places, and cook meals. I remember even less her cooking actual meals when my grandma wasnt there. My grandparents lived about 10 minutes away and we would stay there at least 2 weekends out of the month until they finally moved in with us (I think this was partially manipulative given how the next several years went but that is a whole separate topic). When they moved in with us, I don't remember my mother cooking unless my grandma was ill. When my mother did clean or cook, she would just complain to us saying we aren't helping enough and she hopes our kids are just as bad as we are someday. I started cooking for myself at a young age and remember burning myself/cutting my fingers accidentally a few times since she never really taught me how to cook! woops!  

As far as attending school events, she did for the most part attend, but usually not on time. I remember regularly being the last one picked up from an after school sports practice unless my grandma picked me up. Same goes for being driven to school, regularly late due to this. Even to this day, family events or appointments she is routinely late for, even my brother's wedding we had to tell her 2 hours prior to ensure she would show up on time.

It is so funny you bring up hygiene skills, because even just brushing my teeth is something that I struggled with growing up, I never realized how my strong her role was in even something that seems so simple... I remember staying over friend's houses even up until high school and making a huge mess brushing my teeth and them always joking about it!  I don't ever remember being really taught how to or how often, so I only brushed my teeth once a day until I was in high school.

I can also totally relate to my mother being impatient and just saying she would do it herself.

One other thing not mentioned here that mother made me do was run errands for her. When I was old enough to drive and my grandparents were not able to drive as much, I would drive my grandparents to Dr's appointments, to do errands, and would run errands for my parents (groceries, banking, post office, etc). I remember trying to keep myself occupied with my own stuff (got a job, sports) to avoid doing her work for her because I thought she was lazy. My parents had their own business when I was growing up and it was on our home property so when I would walk out there to see what she needed help with, she would be gambling on the internet or just playing games (not really working 12+ hours/day where she claimed to be "working so hard". My father did the same thing. Looking back on this, I was parentified at a young age so they can work hard, play harder!

[Turkish]

Life skills to me mean those which enable us to function as adults.

My mom was diagnosed years ago as a "high functioning depressive." She laughed at that and says she is low functioning. I would agree. A massive hoarder (like the worst, filthiest episodes of that tv show), she lives one step away from homelessness to this day. She might qualify as "sub clinical" for BPD, but exhibits several traits strongly. The rages and emotional dysregulation were what I remember of my childhood. Also the splitting. The abuse she denies to this day, probably comparing it to her father, who was a monster and the only person I have ever heard her refer to as evil. I have his name, but not his DNA, being adopted. I'll leave it at that.

Though she was an involved mom, being a singe parent, I was a latchkey kid. She was involved in school, taught my hygiene and the like, but when I reached teenhood, I felt I raised myself. The splitting then got horrible.

Always with her, it was the next get rich scheme. So I later ignored her advice on money. We ended up homless due to that tendency in combination with her depression. I didn't listen to her advice about college, since it didn't make sense to me. Thankfully,.there were a few outside influences in my life who nudged me in the right direction. ,

My T asked me how I learned about money. I educated myself. I wish I had done it right away, rather than in my late 20s. It certainly wasn't from mom. I'm in my early 40s, make a darn good salary, have niche skills highly in demand, 22 years into my career. Less than 2 years ago, she still hinted that I should quit my job and go back to school for something, since I only have a 2 year degree. I showed her a budget spreadsheet I made, hinting at her money manegement issues, then showed her my retirement account balance. Her jaw dropped and she said no more.

The point is that long ago, I looked at her life and did the opposite, including how I dealt with people, because her friendships always felt fraught with conflict. So too did her work relationships.

The thing I failed at was taking some of her Caretaking/Rescuer tendencies (it took my T to point this out), in addition to my FOO issues being raised by her, and ending up with my uBPDx and mother of my children, which is how I ended up here  

[Lise]

If you had a mwBPD, did they do much housework? Drive you to places? teach you hygiene skills (eg brushing your teeth, wearing fresh clothes every day etc)

My mwBPD didn't do much around the home. Our apartment was usually very messy and dirty, and she expected me to do a lot of the cleaning ... . but not too much, mind you, because if I cleaned something she didn't want cleaned (yet), she'd rage at me for being snobbish and acting like nothing was ever good enough for me. If I cleaned something too late, I was a useless slop who expected her to do everything. The trick was to guess exactly what she wanted cleaned the second before she'd say anything. 

I was never really taught basic hygiene skills, I was more expected to figure it out on my own. As a result, I wasn't the cleanest child in class.

I wasn't allowed to grow breasts or to menstruate (!), so I wasn't given any help in that department; neither was I ever taught about make up, dressing etc.

Did they teach you how to do chores?

I was expected to do things right the first time without any training. Usually she'd tell me to do something and then afterwards go over all my mistakes in painful detail. I don't remember ever being praised for trying my best. She'd usually just say something like: "Oh, so I see you couldn't do that either, huh - but you thought you'd be so good at it, didn't you?"

Also did they attend school events with you? Like assemblies, presentations, concerts, parent aid etc?

Yep, it's all about keeping up the appearances.   My mom'd attend the things she'd have to in order not to stand out, but nothing more.

If I was attending sports or something else, I'd always walk there by myself, she'd never accompany me (and I learned at an early age to be grateful for that).

When I compare my life to that of my friends' I can see huge gaps of things I have never been taught. As a result I've spent much of my life messing about until I got it right ... . how to cook, clean, pay bills, figure out my cup-size, fix a flat bike, hang up a shelf, use eyeliner, buy the not-rotten fruit in the supermarket etc., etc.

[BreatheDeep]

This is interesting. My dBPD and NM kept our house very clean. She was a stay at home mom most of my childhood and had a routine of picking up, dusting, vacuuming, laundry etc. She cooked all the meals.

What life skills she didn't teach me was how to make friends, how to respect others and value kindness. I didn't know about boys and what to expect on dates. I was never taught how to budget money, save for retirement, make good decisions.

I was taught to be quiet, to be invisible until needed, how to sympathetically listen to both parents when they were upset and make them feel better. I was taught that I didn't matter and the day I turned 18 I was to leave and just go somewhere else.

I think I've raised myself in many ways, and that's quite an accomplishment for all of us who had neglectful parents. We survived! 

[AsianSon]

This is a very interesting discussion. 

I suspect that regarding life skills in dealing with emotion and emotional growth, all BPD parents tend to fail. 

And for life skills dealing with practical, day to day kind of activities, it may depend on whether the BPD parent is high or low functioning. 

A

[Turkish]

This is a very interesting discussion. 

I suspect that regarding life skills in dealing with emotion and emotional growth, all BPD parents tend to fail. 

My T pointed out to me that I probably get my Rescuer traits from my mother. That blew me away. She was always drawn to underdogs, and we had no shortage of somewhat low functioning people surrounding us in my childhood, and a few families she even took into our home (which generally ended badly... . my mother's splitting).

I also got the passive aggressive trait of "running" and shutting down from conflict, which drove my uBPDx nuts.

[czarsmom]

I have been reading about the symptoms of NPD v BPD and was hoping to get some comparative points. If you had a mwBPD, did they do much housework? Drive you to places? teach you hygiene skills (eg brushing your teeth, wearing fresh clothes every day etc)

Did they teach you how to do chores? (We were given typed out lists but the punished for getting stuff wrong. I remember getting woken up from sleep dragged out of bed by my ear because I refused to wash my parents' dirty ashtrays as I HATED cigarette butts. Mind you everything else was done perfectly O)

Also did they attend school events with you? Like assemblies, presentations, concerts, parent aid etc? Did they drive themselves or transport themselves independently like public trains/buses etc? Or let you suffer from your mistakes in a disproportionate way? (Eg "You wanted those shoes even though I liked the other ones so you can wear them to school and just put up with the blisters. Oh and you'll have to clean those socks that you bled over. Can't you look after anything I buy you? They were expensive you know."

Curious to know the similarities or dissimilarities. Thank you!

My untreated witch BPD mom did housework all the time.  (what is mw?)  She very begrudgingly drove me to places.  In high school she would not allow me to do any extra curriculars because she didn't want to drive me around anymore. I was definitely taught how to do chores.  I had to stay home all day Sat every week to do chores. She refused to make a list and let me do them in my own time.  No, she did not go to any of my school events.  

I was taught no life skills by her.

Jennifer

[CrazyNoMore]

I learned cooking, laundry and grocery shopping and how to balance a checkbook.  UBPDm was a nurse, so menstruation was handled very clinically (thank god!).

What I didn't learn was how to do housework on any kind of schedule or with any kind of organization. Too much junk in a too small house, not allowed to throw anything out but screamed at for the place being a pigsty... . y'all know the drill.

I didn't learn about social niceties - how to do small talk, how to introduce/be introduced (and therefore was always accused of "being rude".  I was the kid who stared at the floor in a room full of people and even now, I'm the one sticking to the wall.  We never had company, so I had no idea how to host guests.  (I learned that from watching my MIL.) 

[Sandcastle]

Mother taught me to bake. She taught me the basics of how to clean house, although later I avoided doing it until she was out of the house because I often got told I was doing it wrong. (We had an internal vacuum, and woe betide me if I scraped the vacuum hose on the corner of the wall.) She tried to teach me how to sew, since that was her favorite hobby. I can do buttons and simple things, but sewing is so not my thing.

She was a neat freak; the house was always kept model-home clean. I couldn't rearrange my bedroom, it pissed her off because she's the one that did the decorating, sometimes with my input, often with, "This is what will work best so this is what you're getting." I always got up on my own, made my own breakfast (except in high school when I didn't eat breakfast, or even lunch) and when I was old enough got myself to school. In high school she was at her worst and often she wouldn't even get out of bed, I just had to holler upstairs that I was leaving. And although she came to my band concerts and such, she was so snarky and picky that I didn't like her coming. When I could drive, she stopped driving me to lessons, even on the day I gave blood and puked afterwards.

Things I did not learn were things like Ibuprofen was good for cramps (I remember several days of going to school and being in severe pain and having no idea anything could be done about it.) Mother never offered pain meds, just a stupid English Muffin with butter and herbs. (one of those lack of empathy moments.) She let me use her electric razor and then yelled at me for not using it right because I had no idea how to empty it. (This happened a lot, i.e. getting in trouble for not doing something they didn't show me how to do in the first place.) I got yelled at for not talking to a girl I barely knew in school, and "It's no wonder you don't have any friends." Other than a brief read through a "birds and bees" book, not a word was spoken about growing up or managing female issues, though at least she bought me the necessary supplies.

In high school I was expected to cook dinner a few times a night, but it usually ended up being pasta out of a box, Jell-O and canned veggies, partly because I didn't know how or what to cook, partly because I hated it. enDad didn't care, he was too busy working and getting an MBA, and mother had a job that she continuously complained about at the dinner table.

Other useful things to know would have been at least the basics of money management. I had no idea about interest rates on a credit card, or that one had to pay it every month, or that using credit card checks were a VERY BAD idea. Nope, I just got yelled at when I got myself into debt. Took years to work myself out, but I did. On my own, thanks.

My parents were also good at "Here you go... . oh, no, we changed our minds, you won't take care of it." I wasn't lazy so much as afraid of doing something wrong and therefore did nothing.

[Ziggiddy]

Wow. This is so enlightening. So varied too. It's interesting that the BPD doesn't seem to produce a uniform effect in life skills. As AsianSon mentioned it's probably related to functionality.

justchillinit

I would consider the house consistently cluttered unless we had a large family gathering where space was needed (i.e. she would usually just move her excessive amount of useless things into a different corner).

Yes I can relate to this -you want to use the kettle? Shift the pile of junk to ... . well just put it on top of another pile of junk. You want the coffee? it's in a cupboard across the room behind other stuff. And out of code.

even just brushing my teeth is something that I struggled with growing up, I never realized how my strong her role was in even something that seems so simple... I remember staying over friend's houses even up until high school and making a huge mess brushing my teeth and them always joking about it!  I don't ever remember being really taught how to or how often, so I only brushed my teeth once a day until I was in high school.

After I had a third tooth extracted at age 27, a dentist told me I could have saved them had I flossed. I had heard of floss but had no idea you were supposed to do it regularly. Both my parents had dentures so I guess it didn't matter. I really regret losing teeth

Lise

As a result, I wasn't the cleanest child in class.

I wasn't allowed to grow breasts or to menstruate (!), so I wasn't given any help in that department; neither was I ever taught about make up, dressing etc.

I was expected to do things right the first time without any training. Usually she'd tell me to do something and then afterwards go over all my mistakes in painful detail. I don't remember ever being praised for trying my best. She'd usually just say something like: "Oh, so I see you couldn't do that either, huh - but you thought you'd be so good at it, didn't you?"

how incredibly frustrating for you. I wonder if they see children as small adults and that's why they can pick pick and not make allowances for mistakes?

Turkish - it seems you have thought about these things!

A massive hoarder (like the worst, filthiest episodes of that tv show), she lives one step away from homelessness to this day. She might qualify as "sub clinical" for BPD, but exhibits several traits strongly. The rages and emotional dysregulation were what I remember of my childhood. Also the splitting. The abuse she denies to this day,

I later ignored her advice on money. We ended up homless due to that tendency in combination with her depression. I didn't listen to her advice about college, since it didn't make sense to me.

The point is that long ago, I looked at her life and did the opposite, including how I dealt with people, because her friendships always felt fraught with conflict. So too did her work relationships.

Man ... . I so relate to some of this. I am amazed that you made success so early despite all the odds against you.  What a gut wrenching thing to be homeless.

The hoarding is so undermining isn't it? I remember overhearing some kids at my house during a party where they were saying "How can people LIVE like this?" It was the first time I really felt the shame and the extent of the problem. Suddenly knew we weren't like other people.

It does seem a common theme that children of BPD parents are not taught how to relate to others in relationships though. I was always ALWAYS taught to walk away if someone was rude or mean or slighted me. "You don't need people like that in your life. plenty of other fish in the sea."

The most damaging part of that way of thinking (for me, anyway) is that right up till this year (I'm 44) I believed other people thought like that too. that if I upset them at all in the slightest way then they would walk away and the friendship would be over for keeps. I spent so much time ringing people back after seeing them to apologise for any mistake I may have made when I was with them!

czarsmom when I wrote mwBPD I meant 'mother with.' I wasn't sure how to shorten it!

  I had to stay home all day Sat every week to do chores. She refused to make a list and let me do them in my own time.  No, she did not go to any of my school events. 

I was taught no life skills by her.

Jennifer

I am  sorry for the lack of balance that you had at home. I too remember the 'Saturday chores' If I didn't get finished on time I would miss my netball game. No mercy there. And hours and hours of work cleaning the clutter. Such a shame your mother didn't care for your needs better.

I didn't learn about social niceties - how to do small talk, how to introduce/be introduced (and therefore was always accused of "being rude". 

That brought a tumble of memories for me. I'm groaning at the terrible etiquette problems I had - bumbling into things and never knowing how much offense I was causing. It was only after leaving home my brother taught me to be a bit more tactful and what was expected by normal people. I mean we were taught manners - strictly. And if you took the biggest piece of cake or wanted the best seat there was hell to pay later.

She let me use her electric razor and then yelled at me for not using it right because I had no idea how to empty it. (This happened a lot, i.e. getting in trouble for not doing something they didn't show me how to do in the first place.)

My parents were also good at "Here you go... . oh, no, we changed our minds, you won't take care of it." I wasn't lazy so much as afraid of doing something wrong and therefore did nothing.

That was really interesting. I never really thought about my paralysis in so many things. And that's actually it. Too afraid of getting it wrong. Still.

This has been most enriching.

[Lise]

I wasn't lazy so much as afraid of doing something wrong and therefore did nothing.

That was really interesting. I never really thought about my paralysis in so many things. And that's actually it. Too afraid of getting it wrong. Still.

 Wow ... . that's exactly it!

I've never managed to put it that clearly to myself before, but this problem I know so very well. Thank's guys for hitting the mark so accurately on that one.   

[BabeRuthless]

Am remembering that I was never taken to a dentist by my mother (or father) and never taught how to properly use toilet paper. After folks divorced and left me with BPD grandmother, she never allowed me or my sister to do any chores; she seemed to be trying to protect us from dangerous exertion. As a result, I grew up feeling deeply incompetent and inadequate. It's just been in last year or so that it dawned on me that our family lacked even basic life/relational skills. How can this happen in a "decent" family? Yet it does.   

[fleurhart]

Hi

I have an uBPD mother. I can't remember her teaching any of us (3 daughters) life skills, that was all up to our father.

I remember him teaching me how to shine shoes, vacuum a room, clean a bathroom, the correct way to scrub a pot, how to iron shirts etc etc. He has very exacting standards of cleanliness, (for example, the 'correct way' to scrub a pot is to dip one end of a pre-soaped pot scrubber in the water, and to not get the rest of it wet, as that will rust the scrubber). But he was a kind dad, and I don't hold the super-clean thing against him.

He was not allowed to cook, though. That was mum's one job.

If I ever cooked anything she would say it was terrible, but of course did not teach me how to cook in the first place.

I have no idea how she did it, but my older sister taught herself how to cook wonderfully, my younger sister (in her 30s) still cannot cook at all. I am somewhere in between.

Anyway, I can relate to all who say that they were not taught, then told off for doing it wrong.

[kharma]

The only thing my BPDMom taught me was NOT to steal. Don't do drugs.

When it came to being a successful and independent adult--no. As a teen she'd always fly off the handle when I tried to wash clothes, claiming I'd break the washing machine. Finally, when I was given permission to use it, she'd nag, critique and verbally abuse me (clothes weren't folded right, water not the right temp; speed cycle wrong) so much that I avoided doing chores all together. It was like being in bootcamp only ten times worse. I'd get berated for avoiding doing chores and berated even more for doing it wrong. There was NO win with this woman.

[Ziggiddy]

I wonder if they were lacking in skills themselves?

My mother when I think about it didn't do a great deal of housework. My childhood memories of her were mostly at the table doing crosswords or watching the TV and chain smoking.

I rarely remember my mother doing housework that actually was productive, I would consider the house consistently cluttered unless we had a large family gathering where space was needed

As far as attending school events, she did for the most part attend, but usually not on time. I remember regularly being the last one picked up from an after school sports practice unless my grandma picked me up. Same goes for being driven to school, regularly late due to this. Even to this day, family events or appointments she is routinely late for, even my brother's wedding we had to tell her 2 hours prior to ensure she would show up on time.

It is so funny you bring up hygiene skills, because even just brushing my teeth is something that I struggled with growing up, I never realized how my strong her role was in even something that seems so simple... I remember staying over friend's houses even up until high school and making a huge mess brushing my teeth and them always joking about it!  I don't ever remember being really taught how to or how often, so I only brushed my teeth once a day until I was in high school.

I can also totally relate to my mother being impatient and just saying she would do it herself.

One other thing not mentioned here that mother made me do was run errands for her.

Many of these things rang bells for me.

I told my mother two hours for my wedding! I was absolutely not putting up with a scene. i made the accidental good judgment to just let her take care of the flowergirl dresses and even buy me my shoes for the wedding (which incidentally she got my father to do. Wth?)

I remember going to sleepovers at other people's places and the kids all knew how and when to brush their teeth! I watched others do it so I knew how long it should take. One friend very kindly (at age 6/7) explained the actual brushing motion!

And the errands! Oh my - how could I forget the ERRANDS? Every day. "Go make me a cup of tea. Why isn't it filled all the way up?" (Because I'm 7 mum. I'm scared it'll spill, I'll scald myself and get in trouble for spilling it) "Go get me my cigarettes. And an ashtray. And some matches. And my magazine. Oh and turn the TV on. Come and change the channel (no remote back then!) Go and tell your father blah blah. Pop down the shops and get some bread. Take this up the street to Mrs J. on and on. Even now she still gives me lists and lists of things to do!

As a result, I grew up feeling deeply incompetent and inadequate. It's just been in last year or so that it dawned on me that our family lacked even basic life/relational skills. How can this happen in a "decent" family? Yet it does.   

Agree 100% BR I also fail to start enjoyable things because I feel like either they simply won't be good enough or I'll be ripped away to do something else. Even though my mother is not in the vicinity that sense of being about to be called and required immediately still hangs there.

I remember him teaching me how to shine shoes, vacuum a room, clean a bathroom, the correct way to scrub a pot, how to iron shirts etc etc. He has very exacting standards of cleanliness, (for example, the 'correct way' to scrub a pot is to dip one end of a pre-soaped pot scrubber in the water, and to not get the rest of it wet, as that will rust the scrubber). But he was a kind dad, and I don't hold the super-clean thing against him.

He was not allowed to cook, though. That was mum's one job.

fleurhart Oh Em Gee ... . I am chilled. That was like reading my own diary. ExACTly  the same! Even down to Mum cooking. Did your mum order your dad around at all?

I have never been able to wrap my head around their attraction to one another. Dad is super clean super organised. Like you we had very specific instructions on household tasks. The list for doing the dishes was about 12 points long! And shining shoes - oh dear. How old that makes me feel! I did marching and and had to polish my boots twice a week. My dad had been in the army and he would help me with it and tell me stories about his youth. Trying not to cry now. It was a warm feeling of connectedness that mother never liked to allow. Even now she is incredibly vigilant not to let us talk for too long or leave us anywhere alone.

Like you I can forgive his exacting ways because I feel like there was a heart in him. Can't help wondering how he might have thrived with a kinder gentler woman. Thank you for sharing these things.

When it came to being a successful and independent adult--no. As a teen she'd always fly off the handle when I tried to wash clothes, claiming I'd break the washing machine. Finally, when I was given permission to use it, she'd nag, critique and verbally abuse me (clothes weren't folded right, water not the right temp; speed cycle wrong) I'd get berated for avoiding doing chores and berated even more for doing it wrong. There was NO win with this woman.

This was interesting to read, kharma. I hate to admit it but that was one of my . After having an emergency Casaerean and being incapacitated for some time I had a very kind friend come over to help me with household chores. Well she was hanging out the washing and doing it all 'wrong' and folding it all 'wrong' and I had to continually remind myself how very kindly this woman had given up her time and come to my rescue and SHUT UP Who cares if it's wrong? At least it's done. I felt terribly guilty for all those thoughts. I am glad you mentioned it. I must keep it in mind and not be picky with my kids and make allowances that they are kids and not small adults

[AsianSon]

At dinner this evening, I flashed on how my BPDm's teaching style for life skills:  learn by watching--questions not allowed. 

So we all had to learn by watching and copying what we saw.  If we asked questions, then it meant we weren't watching (carefully) enough, and not following her instructions to watch.  And if any of us didn't learn fast enough, then her anger and temper shows up. 

One crazy consequence of this is that even when one of us kids copies her and does something exactly her way, she might still get angry and say that it is being done wrong.  This is even after she acknowledges that it is being done exactly her way!

[kharma]

Something strange about my BPD mom is that if she doesn't see me cleaning, then in her mind, I haven't done anything at all. I used to regularly clean when she was at work, however she was in an irritable mood, she would accuse me of not doing any chores and say I was lazy. When I told her I did do chores, she would argue with me about what days I cleaned, the time, the hours, etc and ask for all kinds of bizarre proof and call me a liar because she didn't "see" me doing it. Therefore, anything I do is not validated unless she witnesses me doing it

[Turkish]

Something strange about my BPD mom is that if she doesn't see me cleaning, then in her mind, I haven't done anything at all. I used to regularly clean when she was at work, however she was in an irritable mood, she would accuse me of not doing any chores and say I was lazy. When I told her I did do chores, she would argue with me about what days I cleaned, the time, the hours, etc and ask for all kinds of bizarre proof and call me a liar because she didn't "see" me doing it. Therefore, anything I do is not validated unless she witnesses me doing it

I have a 4x8 ft area rug in the living room (floor is tile). When my uBPDx was on one of her infamous cleaning rampages, I vacuumed the rug extra, and she saw me do it. Not being satisfied, she took the vacuum from me and proceeded to go over the same small space for 5 more minutes (angrily, of course). It was ridiculous!

Related to your mother, I think this type of behavior is a form of dissociation. How can kids grow up healthily when their reality is affected though the lens of a disordered parent not completely in touch with reality themselves?

[Sofie]

Ugh... . the title of this thread hit me right in the gut. It's a topic that's so connected to shame in me.

As an adult, I have come to realize how grossly disproportionate the life skills my mother taught me were. (My father was absent most of my childhood and died when I was young, so my uBPD mother was my only caregiver most of the time growing up.)

On one hand, I was trained - and I really mean TRAINED like a monkey - to be a high-achiever. How good my grades were in school was the primary thing that mattered to my mother - I don't really think she cared much about what I learned, the important part was that I did well, so she could brag about it to her friends. Today, I am a highly successful professional within my line of work and my mother bears it like a badge of honor. But guess what? If you asked her to describe what it is that I am actually doing for a living, she couldn't tell you. Because the truth is that she doesn't care.

On the other hand, I have felt like Mowgli straight out of the jungle in so many other respects - I wasn't taught how to bathe, to brush my teeth, how to cook and clean, the list goes on and on... . I had to learn all of these things by myself as a young adult moving away from home. As a result of that, I have, for instance, spent a small fortune on having my teeth done due to them not being brushed properly growing up. And there are still so many areas in which I feel incompetent - for instance, my partner, lovingly, teases me about that I tie my shoelaces in a funny way. Guess what, I do, because I was never shown how to tie them growing up. I can run a million dollar company, but I can't tie my shoelaces properly.

I have tried for so many years to wrap my mind around this schism between my mother's obsession with teaching me to put on a show for the rest of the world on one hand and neglecting to teach me basic life skills on the other. I think that part of the reason stems from that she really didn't like the idea of me growing independent of her. "You and I are one", I heard over and over when I grew up. Oh, at the age of 36 this really still stings so much.

[Ziggiddy]

How good my grades were in school was the primary thing that mattered to my mother - I don't really think she cared much about what I learned, the important part was that I did well, so she could brag about it to her friends.

I found this rather intriguing. I was raised with that similar "Got to do well academically" attitude. Not for the sake of anything, though. I went on to university because I was unaware that there were other options. And I had no concept till about age 19 that the point of education was linked with getting an occupation! Conversely I did well in sports - really well and this was of no interest whatsoever to mother.She didn't like sport and it linked me to my father (who was also an exceptional performer in more than one sport) and this made her uncomfortable and excluded. Mother still brags about my 'achievements' but endows it with "It was bound to happen. I'm so intelligent you see. My kids inherited that' This still annoys me