[LONG] Confused, not sure what happened or what to do.

[mcmp]

Hello, I'm new here.  First of all, I don't KNOW for a fact that my ex girlfriend has BPD.  I am in no position to diagnose her or anyone.  I talk to my friends about her and our situation trying to get outside opinions in figuring her out and her behavior, they all say "she is just crazy, get away from her."  One friend mentioned that she might have BPD and since then I have been reading a lot about it and I think it is very possible.  Secondly, I love HER. Her.  Not what she does or how she acts, but who she IS.  Of course this means I want to have a happy loving relationship with her, but if that can't happen or if she doesn't want the same thing, I still love her, care about her and want her to be happy.  I've read things other places where people describe someone with BPD as "evil, selfish, or unable to know or care when they hurt others".  To me that just sounds like resentment and spite.  I've read things written by people with BPD that say the opposite, that they care too much and feel too much.  I think that no matter how much I read and learn about BPD, because I am a "NON" I can never fully understand it, having not experienced it myself.  I still have a lot to learn about BPD and as I post this I am continuing to read all the resources here.  In the meantime, I hope somebody who knows more might be able to give me some advice.

For a year our relationship was great.  We fell deeply in love.  She thought the world of me.  She told me I am "the one" for her, her best friend, that no matter what happened she always wanted me in her life, she wanted to marry me and she was the one who proposed to me.  The only issues where that in the beginning she would push me away even when things were good.  One example is the after the first time she told me I am the one for her, she was going on about how great I am and how much she loves me, and just moments later told me we needed to break up.  She said it would be easier to just end things now before it gets too serious and to prevent either of us from getting hurt.  She told me she was scared of how much she loves me.  She did stop pushing me away eventually, but still a few times she mentioned that she didn't feel worthy of having me or my love.

Eventually, as in any relationship, fights started happening and she broke up with me.  But it wasn't that simple.  She moved about 10 hours away from me but told me she didn't want to break up, we just needed time apart.  For many months she strung me along and I let her.  She would call every week and tell me she loves me, drunk dial me and be more affectionate, but I could tell I was "losing her".  Any time I asked her about us she just gave the same response, "I love you and want to be with you but we need time apart."  Finally I ran out of patience and needed a real answer from her.  She told me in that case we are better off as friends, that she hasn't had feelings for me for a while but didn't tell me because she didn't want to hurt me, yet that my pressuring her for an answer about us pushed her away into deciding we aren't right for each other.  I was very confused and hurt, and I felt like I didn't get any closure.  Part of it was my own fault for trying to find some hope that she still loved me, part of it was her not giving me straight answers but just a runaround of how she really feels.  I could tell she was not being totally honest with me about her feelings.  She continued to call me and be friendly with me, even tell me she loves me and misses me, but if I ever tried calling her she was very cold and short or even avoided me altogether.  I chased after her and tried to "win her back", which would push any woman away.  In the end she completely cut me out of her life.  I didn't even get an angry attack from her of why she hates me and is cutting me from her life, she just stopped calling or answering my calls.

It took a long time for me to pick myself up.  Even though I got over the fact we were done, it didn't change the fact I still love her.  Maybe I never completely moved on.  Over a year later I sent her a friendly email asking how she is, telling her about a few things in my life, and wishing her well.  She never responded.  A few months later I sent her a birthday present.  I wasn't trying to get back together and really didn't expect or look for any response from her, just did it because I love her.  She called me, I guess she never deleted my number after all this time.  She thanked me for the gift, said it was sweet and very thoughtful.  She told me she loves me, cares about me, misses me, has thought about me and wants me in her life as her friend, but nothing more.  She said she stopped talking to me before because I wanted more than just friendship, and if I can handle being just friends she would like that.  I told her I understand and am fine with just friends.  After that we caught up a little on the past year+.  She went on about how much she loves her career and can see the opportunity to move up in the company.

A couple weeks later she drunk dialed me.  She told me all this, "I have been so wrong for so long, you know me better than anyone else, you are my family, I love my job but I need to get out of this place and wherever I go I want you there with me, I need you in my life, let's go on a trip together somewhere, what's wrong with me that I can't appreciate when someone loves and cares about me as much as you obviously do to send me such a thoughtful gift after I cut you out and treated you like s**t before that, what's wrong with me that I just push you away, you have to know how much I love you and how much you mean to me but we can't be together, maybe we can, but I don't think I can be with anybody... .  I miss you."

Over the next few weeks as we talked she was sober and still said I am her family, that I know her better than anyone else, wants to go on a trip somewhere together, but we can't be together because we aren't right for each other.  Yet she started talking about all the ways we are so similar and started telling me all the great things about me.  She mentioned that she has thought a lot about moving back to where I am and misses it, and really doesn't like the town she is in but plans on staying where she is for another year so she can move up in the company and then hopefully transfer back.  A week later she told me she quit that job she loves so much and wanted me to visit her.  The next day she didn't want me to visit anymore because she needed to find a new job and it wasn't a good time for me to visit.  Later I told her if she really wasn't happy where she is and missed it here, she could stay with me while she looks for a new job here.  She said she would think about it but if she does it wouldn't mean we are getting back together.  Only two days later she told me she wanted to come back and stay with me.  A few days after that she asked me to visit her during my week off from work.

My visit was full of mixed signals.  During my 10 hour drive up there she called and told me she was cooking me a huge dinner and getting stuff for us to cook our favorite meal we used to cook together the next day.  She said she had a friend over to help her clean up for my visit, "but don't worry, he is just a friend.  He means nothing to me, you have nothing to worry about.  Can't wait to see you, love you. Muah".  All her excitement to see me was gone once I got there.  She gave me a blanket to sleep on the couch.  She randomly mentioned that her mom thinks we should get back together, but she doesn't agree and we are just friends.  Another day she told me she can tell I'm still in love with her but I shouldn't be, we never should have been together in the first place, we have an incredible bond of friendship that we almost ruined by involving sex and a relationship.  That really hurt.  This is the same woman who used to tell me I was the one for her, wanted to marry me and one day have kids with me, and now to say it was only friendship feelings that unfortunately involved sex, that hurts.  She continued saying that we can't be together, she isn't good enough for me, she isn't a good person or a nice person, that I deserve better, that she can't be with anyone because she can't open up or get close to anyone, that I need to let go of her and she stopped talking to me last year because I wouldn't let go.  That same night we went out with her friends and she was telling them all how great I am, even mentioning things I only told her through the email I sent before (that she never responded to).  She was flirting with me hardcore, much in the same way as when we were together but without any physical contact.  At one point she pulled me aside and said, "these people are great aren't they? They are just our type of people and I love them, but don't worry, I LOVE you, and I'm with you."  Basically, she told me we can't be together and if I try she will just cut me out of her life again, but then acted like she wants to be together.

A few days after I came back home I called her.  She was cold and distant on the phone, and told me she changed her mind about moving back and is staying where she is because she needs to find a new job, and might even move farther away.  A week later she called me at 3 am and when I tried to call back five minutes later, no answer.  I called her later that week to talk to her about her change of mind, she wouldn't give me any real answers only excuses like needing a new job.  She accused me of trying to just convince her to move back with me, but I reminded her that she has other friends here that would be more than happy to have her stay with them, plus when I visited her she bragged about her friend there that wanted to move here after hearing she was moving back here, so I suggested she could move here with that friend.  Since then I have heard nothing from her.  I have tried calling a few times, but not too much.  I guess I'm getting the silent treatment.

I'm hurt and confused.  I feel I must have wronged her in some way for her to be ignoring me like this.  I want to make things right between us, even if it's only as friends and nothing more.  The only thing I can think to explain this (I apologize if these are false assumptions) is that she does want to be together but constantly tells me "we can't" to hide her true feelings and hopes I will make the "1st move" in wanting to be together.  After me not making any move (because I want to respect her decision of not being together) she may have felt rejected by me and is now shutting me out.  Or, she doesn't want to be together and by me trying to convince her to move back here she feels like all my care and support is not genuine and just a way for me to try and get back together, so she doesn't trust me and my intentions and is now shutting me out.

So, after that super long read, anyone have any opinions, advice, or just anything to help me better understand?  Thanks for your time.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Somewhere]

Hello, I'm new here. 

Welcome Home. 

I'm hurt and confused. 

Good.  Not that you are hurt and confused -- but rather those are *normal* reactions for your experience.  Means your stuff is mostly working right.   

LISTEN TO YOURSELF.  When something is HURTING what do you do?  Burn your hand, pull it back.  Hit your thumb with a hammer, stop doing that. 

Now apply that to this.

So, after that super long read, anyone have any opinions, advice, or just anything to help me better understand?  Thanks for your time.

Not that long of read, and remember when you put things to your group, you are taking some of that bad out of your heart.  LEAVE IT HERE. 

As far as understanding . . .  You have been being used by a user.  Not pleasant, is it? 

BUT -- You can stop it TODAY.  Pretty nice in that regard, no?

[benny2]

You did nothing wrong. That is the first thing you have to realize. I wondered that for years. I begged for answers and never got any. I thought that there had to be something about me that he would keep pushing me away when we got close. Now I have my answers. BPD. A classic case, and from the sounds of it that very well may be what you are dealing with also. From what I have researched so far, its sounds as if their emotions are in overdrive. That is why they come on so fast in the beginning. They have no control over it, and can leave so abruptly. I'm still trying to absorb it all myself. Its very confusing, especially when you have been confused the whole time. I do think they have the ability to realize they have done something wrong though. Mine would come to a feeling of quilt about the things he had done to me, especially after I left. Whether it was sincere or not, I will never be sure, because it's very hard to know whats real and whats not in their mind. I finally came to the conclusion, after 17 years of knowing this man, that nothing is ever going to change. We will never have a normal relationship. He could never be faithful because of his fear of being alone. He would line up a replacement before I was even out of the picture, so I opted to take myself out of the picture completely. You have to think of yourself and what its doing to you. The longer you stay in the relationship, the harder it is on yourself. Nothing will change. I have found it very helpful to read and post on this board. It gives a lot of very good insight and helps to vent and look back at all the disfunction and everyone here truely understands.

[Cardinals in Flight]

mcmp 

mcmp wrote "A couple weeks later she drunk dialed me.  She told me all this, "I have been so wrong for so long, you know me better than anyone else, you are my family, I love my job but I need to get out of this place and wherever I go I want you there with me, I need you in my life, let's go on a trip together somewhere, what's wrong with me that I can't appreciate when someone loves and cares about me as much as you obviously do to send me such a thoughtful gift after I cut you out and treated you like s**t before that, what's wrong with me that I just push you away, you have to know how much I love you and how much you mean to me but we can't be together, maybe we can, but I don't think I can be with anybody... .  I miss you." "

The above is huge insight for you! See how she thinks when unihibited with alcohol?  Lets her guard down and really shares.  Then her BPD self takes over and she can't be that close to anyone, sadly it's part of her disorder! 

I'm really sorry you are hurting so badly, I can relate!

Whether you stay and try to improve things is up to you, you have choices, and you can learn from others here which way you would like to go!

Good luck in your journey and hang on for the ride!

CiF

[mcmp]

Thanks for your replies and support.

Yes, I want to stay and try and improve things, hence why I posted in the "STAYING" forum.  But since she is avoiding me and giving me the silent treatment, I don't know what I can do to improve things.  It seems like I am already on her bad side, and want to be back on her good side.  I don't want to be her doormat either.

[patientandclear]

MCMP:

Seems like you are trying to deduce what is the "true" situation with this woman and her feelings.  :)oes she "really" want you to make the first move.  Have you "really" wronged her in some way (and by the way -- no, that isn't what happened here).  Is she hiding her "true" feelings.

There's no answer for you on that path.  There isn't one "true" situation that's concealed under all the conflicting statements and actions.

Her feelings are a pinball being rocketed around the landscape -- they change dramatically and quickly.  And they are going to keep changing.

People do deal with that.  This board is full of people trying to deal with it.  People are more or less successful, more or less skilled at it.

But the one thing that is absolutely essential is that you accept that, if she has BPD and is not engaged in therapy specifically targeting BPD, this is how she will be.  And it won't get less so the closer you get.  It will get more so.

She feels longing for you.  She wonders why she can't just accept your love and be with you.  She experiments with doing that.  It feels great for a minute.  Then it feels terrible.  So she tells you she's changed her mind.  Then, more problematic, she puts all the wanting she was expressing a moment ago on you -- you want it, she is rebuffing it.  Then she switches up again.

I read a really useful comment a while ago that pwBPD are constantly trying to manage their pain by making changes.  The status quo is painful so changing it is a good idea.  Then, the pain is still there after the change, so it seems like a good idea to change again.  So pwBPD are constantly using relationships to try to change their feelings -- both getting into relationships, and getting out of them.

So that's what you're dealing with.  :)on't expect it to be different.  There's no permanent, stable "truth" to uncover if you ask her enough times or think correctly about it or stand on your head and look at it upside down.

What does that mean for you about how you want to handle this?