My friend lashed out accusing me of nastiness. I'm confused and hurt

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi Zara --

How are you today?

I just wanted to check in with you. I can't be sure, but it sounds to me, from your posts, that you're trying to make sense of her texts to you. I totally relate. It's normal for us to try to do this -- after all, we have this gift of language that allows us to communicate with one another. We learn it at a very early age, and many of us spend the rest of our lives, I think, trying to master it, and learn how to use it more effectively, efficiently, accurately.

It really can be a powerful and empowering thing to know how to express clearly what you feel. I know I'm a total sucker for language -- to the extent that it can actually work against me at times, for example, I can be too literal. I can see where lots of misunderstandings with my ex often started there. For instance, like in your example of your friend txtng you that she was "destroyed" -- very likely, she was upset, at least on some level. But, she very possibly wasn't as upset as she implied -- and she certainly wasn't in any way destroyed. I used to -- and still can, frankly -- respond very strongly to things my ex says or writes based on nothing more than the words that she uses. In some cases, she chooses the words that she uses for effect, more than for accuracy. In other cases, more for impact than accuracy. In each case, I think I understand that she truly wanted to convey her feelings -- but wasn't able to control them, or to factor in any accountability for how her uncensored expression of raw, unfiltered feelings could affect someone close to her.

Is this making any sense? It's a complicated issue, I think -- once that I continue to struggle with. It's kind of like if you spend all day cleaning your kitchen, and you go crazy and it's now The Cleanest Kitchen in the Universe. And then a neighbor stops by to borrow some sugar, and you open the door, and their crazy dog runs in, gets muddy pawprints all over the floors AND pees on your stove! And you scream, "I want to kill you and set your dog on fire!" But you don't really mean that. But your neighbor takes it to heart, grabs their dog and runs away, never to speak to you again.

An over-the-top example, I know -- but I think sometimes this is the dynamic that occurs when trying to communicate with someone who is dysregulated, whether or not they have a PD. If they have a PD, they very likely do not interpret words in the way you intend -- if they are dysregulated, no matter what you write, it will likely be received with a whole lot of emotional impact. And the response will be likely MORE emotional. So, you get into that situation where the weird vibrations begin... .

You: Hi!

Her:  What do you mean by that?

You:  ?

Her:  Fine. I don't need this, today.

You: 

I definitely agree with Clearmind's suggestion that you drop the txtng -- it doesn't work well, it won't work, and it's very likely to make things worse.

Sounds like things have quieted down, maybe?

Hang in there,

e.

[eyvindr]

Hi Zara --

How are you today?

I just wanted to check in with you. I can't be sure, but it sounds to me, from your posts, that you're trying to make sense of her texts to you. I totally relate. It's normal for us to try to do this -- after all, we have this gift of language that allows us to communicate with one another. We learn it at a very early age, and many of us spend the rest of our lives, I think, trying to master it, and learn how to use it more effectively, efficiently, accurately.

It really can be a powerful and empowering thing to know how to express clearly what you feel. I know I'm a total sucker for language -- to the extent that it can actually work against me at times, for example, I can be too literal. I can see where lots of misunderstandings with my ex often started there. For instance, like in your example of your friend txtng you that she was "destroyed" -- very likely, she was upset, at least on some level. But, she very possibly wasn't as upset as she implied -- and she certainly wasn't in any way destroyed. I used to -- and still can, frankly -- respond very strongly to things my ex says or writes based on nothing more than the words that she uses. In some cases, she chooses the words that she uses for effect, more than for accuracy. In other cases, more for impact than accuracy. In each case, I think I understand that she truly wanted to convey her feelings -- but wasn't able to control them, or to factor in any accountability for how her uncensored expression of raw, unfiltered feelings could affect someone close to her.

Is this making any sense? It's a complicated issue, I think -- once that I continue to struggle with. It's kind of like if you spend all day cleaning your kitchen, and you go crazy and it's now The Cleanest Kitchen in the Universe. And then a neighbor stops by to borrow some sugar, and you open the door, and their crazy dog runs in, gets muddy pawprints all over the floors AND pees on your stove! And you scream, "I want to kill you and set your dog on fire!" But you don't really mean that. But your neighbor takes it to heart, grabs their dog and runs away, never to speak to you again.

An over-the-top example, I know -- but I think sometimes this is the dynamic that occurs when trying to communicate with someone who is dysregulated, whether or not they have a PD. If they have a PD, they very likely do not interpret words in the way you intend -- if they are dysregulated, no matter what you write, it will likely be received with a whole lot of emotional impact. And the response will be likely MORE emotional. So, you get into that situation where the weird vibrations begin... .

You: Hi!

Her:  What do you mean by that?

You:  ?

Her:  Fine. I don't need this, today.

You: 

I definitely agree with Clearmind's suggestion that you drop the txtng -- it doesn't work well, it won't work, and it's very likely to make things worse.

Sounds like things have quieted down, maybe?

Hang in there,

e.

[Diana82]

That makes sense...

I agree. I think she uses certain words for impact. But I also believe she really does feel such extreme emotions. She did tell me once she oscillates between manic to mediocre often.

It seems common for BPDs to prefer communication via text or Facebook. Is this because they tend to be quite passive aggressive? She would never lash out in person like that. She's actually more the shy type.

I haven't replied to her latest message where she says  I have a way of finding her insecurities.

But I want to tell her that if we do become friends one day, the only way it can work is if she talks to me more about the insecurities and triggers. So I am aware of them.

I'm not sure i should though.

I don't want to punish her with silence but I agreed that we should leave it be for a while...

[Diana82]

So... I am still confused about how I trigger her.

She said I "have a knack" for finding her insecurities.

But... I don't see how apologising and clearing up I never called her bipolar- can trigger her.

But I'm starting to think that she suspected she might be bipolar and made a joke about it. And any reference to that word or joke makes her flip. And she then thinks I actually think those things of her too... .

It does all sound like projection. Telling me my "tone" upsets her and us abrupt. Yet she is sending me crazy and hurtful texts!

But she seems to be very apologetic now. And so ignoring her last text feels almost cruel :/

[hellokitty4]

So... I am still confused about how I trigger her.

She said I "have a knack" for finding her insecurities.

But... I don't see how apologising and clearing up I never called her bipolar- can trigger her.

But I'm starting to think that she suspected she might be bipolar and made a joke about it. And any reference to that word or joke makes her flip. And she then thinks I actually think those things of her too... .

It does all sound like projection. Telling me my "tone" upsets her and us abrupt. Yet she is sending me crazy and hurtful texts!

But she seems to be very apologetic now. And so ignoring her last text feels almost cruel :/

Don't take this the wrong way, Zara... .you are her trigger. At any moment you can trigger her. It doesn't matter if you didn't do anything wrong... .she will find something to get upset about with you. You can stare into space and that would trigger her. One look at you could trigger her.  This is why not taking it personally helps. 

I believe that I am the cause of my BPD friend's anger or hurt for whatever reason she finds, yet I am also the way for her to get out of her misery. Contradicting emotions triggered by the same person... .but oh yes it's BPD.

[Diana82]

Hey there

Yes I can see I am her trigger.

But I find that strange... considering I haven't seen her for close to 3 months.

If u have an intimate or romantic relationship with a BPD- will u become their trigger?

We currently don't have an intimate relationship or anything really! we communicated via facebook when I was away overseas too. So, I'm wondering why i am still her trigger. 

Is it because she may still hold feelings for me or sees me as someone who was close at one point and that person can be a trigger for life?

[Diana82]

I'm also just wondering if anyone here has had a BPD friend or lover avoid or completely flake on them... but then come back and act like they never did?

Initially I thought this girl was playing games. But she actually seems unaware of the fact she avoided me following our argument 2 months ago. And she told me she misses me 2 weeks ago. It was random!

I still can't fathom it. If she misses me, why did she avoid me like I was nothing to her before I left for overseas? I was so hurt she didn't want to see me for even an hour before I left.

[hellokitty4]

I'm also just wondering if anyone here has had a BPD friend or lover avoid or completely flake on them... but then come back and act like they never did?

Initially I thought this girl was playing games. But she actually seems unaware of the fact she avoided me following our argument 2 months ago. And she told me she misses me 2 weeks ago. It was random!

I still can't fathom it. If she misses me, why did she avoid me like I was nothing to her before I left for overseas? I was so hurt she didn't want to see me for even an hour before I left.

Yes, yes, yes... .

My BPD friend goes through avoidance on a regular basis. We don't even have to see each other for her to want to avoid me. They "leave" before you sort of preempting the possibility. Then a few days go by and back to normal. Hard to explain. My friend once said to me "I would rather be mad at you and miss you than to lose you". So she finds any reason to get upset with me. She wants me around... .and especially when she's done with her tantrum. And when is done with her dysregulated phase she does nice things to make it better. Push/pull. The best thing for you to do is to go about your life doing what you love. The less contact the happier and more relaxed you will be.

Fully accept what you cannot change, do not engage (leave an argument if you feel uncomfortable) yet be there for her. Do not forget that you are important too. I love my friend dearly... .sometimes loving her feels better from a distance. Smothering them or even showing them that you care scares them and triggers them to push you away. And usually it is all in their minds.

About your question about intimacy... .it takes all forms. I am emotionally intimate with my friend. The key is to detach when needed.

[Diana82]

Hi hello kitty

Interesting stuff...

Have u ever confronted your friend about the avoidance?

If so, what was the reaction?

I didn't think this girl was interested in dating me anymore. She kept saying work was really taking up her time. But then I'd hear about how she was sitting in the sun with an old friend.

So when I returned from my holiday and she randomly said she misses me (over Facebook), I wanted to confront her. I suppose the way I asked her was quite direct ESP for a BPD.

The Facebook convo went like this:

Me: "Hi, I'm going to just be direct here. Why did you say you miss me now after you completely avoided and flaked on me for weeks? What is that about? It seems your behaviour has reached a new level of weird and it feels like a head screw"

She: "when did I avoid you? When you called me a bipolar junkie and cracked it at me? I told u I missed u because I do. I miss going to dinner/movies/theatre with you and our conversations. But u jump to so many conclusions and say things that cut! What do u want from me?"

I was astounded at this point. And said "um what? I never called you a bipolar junkie. And it did feel like u avoided me. I didn't think u were interested anymore. You went from texting me daily and wanting to see me weekly, to nothing and saying u were busy every day. So saying you miss me now just seems a bit strange. I don't want anything from you, I just had to ask the question".

She: "well if u don't want anything from me, maybe u shouldn't message me as often! And I won't reply. You seem to want all or nothing. You don't have to see each other everyday to be friends! And u don't have to put a label on everything and put it into tidy boxes".

At this point I was so confused. ESP the bit about "you don't have to see each other everyday to be friends"... .I hadn't seen her for 2.5 months!

And she continued to say "it's perfectly normal to miss someone u haven't seen for ages. I wanted to float the idea I missed you... to see if u felt the same and we could make time"

Does this sound like classic BPD behaviour? Why couldn't she just ask to see me like most friends do?

Sometimes it feels like she's playing head games.

[Diana82]

I should also add that I found out she had been seeing a new woman while I was away overseas. And she was on a date with that girl (according to Facebook) and texting me she misses me at the same time!

And I noticed that suddenly this girl disappeared from her Facebook and looked like she blocked her. And that's when she was quite angry at me.

I feel perhaps I am her emotional dumping ground.

While we were dating back in August, she had a fight with a friend and took it out on me. She tried to end it with me that evening.

Is it common for lovers or friends to be emotional dumps for BPDs?

[Diana82]

By the way, although Im a little fearful of this girl ... I really miss her. I feel like telling her I have missed her a lot the past months. But I feel it may backfire on me now!

ESP as we agreed to leave things be for a while.

Do u think its worth telling her i miss her? Or leaving it for a while?

[letmeout]

BPD people can hold grudges, forever, about anything real or imagined.  My ex would regurgitate these things anywhere/anytime for any reason or no reason. Its just crazy.

I've wondered why nons miss the intense emotional turmoil BPD people exhibit.

[Diana82]

So our last text conversation went like this:

She: "thanks for my hug. I'm really sorry I reacted, I know you didn't mean to attack me. You just have a knack for finding my insecurities! Hope you have a lovely day too".

Me: (a day later) "ok... I know you have insecurities but I have had no idea what triggers them. So that was a bit scary for me. If we can be friends some day, it would help if I know what can upset you. I'm pretty understanding "

No reply.

I'm not sure how long I should leave her be now!

How much space should u give a BPD?

I was thinking of contacting her again near Christmas. Or is giving too much space to a BPD a bad idea? Will she just view it a rejection even though she agreed we leave things be for a while?

[hellokitty4]

Hi hello kitty

Interesting stuff...

Have u ever confronted your friend about the avoidance?

If so, what was the reaction?

Yes I asked her the first few times it happened.  The answer has always been "you're right I did not want to see you" or "you're right I didn't want to talk to you." All because she was still upset with me for her own madeup reasons.  I have stopped asking and basically leave her alone until she is over her anger.  She gets angry... .I give her space. I don't keep in touch as much in the course of the day. I let her do the approaching and she usually does. Out of the blue she will send me a text or call and start up a conversation. In her last rage last week, she told me things that she didn't want in our friendship. So she's getting what she asked for. No hugging when we are around people in my aerobics class, no asking what she is doing, where she is going. The odd thing is, she is giving me the information without me asking at all. As for the hugging, it feels odd because we've always hugged before or after my class. Pretty soon, she will say something about the hugging when she realizes that she misses it. She told me in her anger that she feels suffocated by me and that I am hard to avoid because I am everywhere... .yes I am everywhere in her mind. 

[Diana82]

Ok so that's a bit different to mine...

So how much space is too much?

I have agreed to leave things be with her "for a while".

She still has me deleted off Facebook. But the last thing we did was apologise to each other and give virtual hugs etc and she was all apologetic.

And she told me I have a knack for finding her insecurities.

So... I have no idea what to do now. Contact her in a week?

Contact her in a month? Or wait for her to reach out?

I feel I am the one who initiated "time out" and she agreed after her lash out session...

[hellokitty4]

Ok so that's a bit different to mine...

So how much space is too much?

I have agreed to leave things be with her "for a while".

She still has me deleted off Facebook. But the last thing we did was apologise to each other and give virtual hugs etc and she was all apologetic.

And she told me I have a knack for finding her insecurities.

So... I have no idea what to do now. Contact her in a week?

Contact her in a month? Or wait for her to reach out?

I feel I am the one who initiated "time out" and she agreed after her lash out session...

I suggest that you just keep your distance.  You don't have to "disappear" for a week or a month.  It's not an all or nothing thing.  Keep you distance... .be there but not. In other words do less of what you have been doing for her. Let her come to you... .and she will. This needs a lot of patience and a lot of understanding. My BPD friend was feeling smothered [her words] by my texts alone. I thought that was strange but that is how she sees things and I cannot change that.  What I can do is change how I deal with her. Yes I miss our times together but I figure she misses it more intensely.  She just wants to do it in her own time.

Take it slow and relax.

[Diana82]

thank you for the advice.

Another weird thing she said during this lashing out over text session was: "I don't know what you're trying to get out of this. You like me, you hate me, you have inane conversations with me, you get mad at me and you get upset when I get mad! It's confusing!"


That comment was confusing.   It feels like she is talking more about herself here... could it be projection?

Because I haven't stopped liking her. And I certainly have never 'hated' her.

Also, what about this whole "you just have a knack for finding my insecurities!" comment from her? 

Is this somehow an excuse she is giving for lashing out at me over a misunderstood apology? Could it be true that I unintentionally trigger her insecurities and that's what she means?

[Diana82]

Hellokitty>  are you friends with your BPD now?

I was thinking in 2 weeks, I could send her a friendly text saying "Hey, how are you doing?  I was thinking of you today because I saw a circus show. It was amazing"  (I will be seeing the circus in 2 weeks and she loves the circus.) I thought that might be a good opportunity to text her a non-intrusive message... .

[hellokitty4]

thank you for the advice.

Another weird thing she said during this lashing out over text session was: "I don't know what you're trying to get out of this. You like me, you hate me, you have inane conversations with me, you get mad at me and you get upset when I get mad! It's confusing!"

This is projection.  She is projecting her feelings on to you. Classic BPD.

Just as my BPD said that "I am smothering her." When in actuality, she is the one asking me where I am, what I am doing, and it kills her not knowing who I am [which I am not] doing things with.

[hellokitty4]

Hellokitty>  are you friends with your BPD now?

I was thinking in 2 weeks, I could send her a friendly text saying "Hey, how are you doing?  I was thinking of you today because I saw a circus show. It was amazing"  (I will be seeing the circus in 2 weeks and she loves the circus.) I thought that might be a good opportunity to text her a non-intrusive message... .

We are still friends.  Since her last rage on 11/9, we have been texting regularly and talking on the phone. We have had conversations face to face but only for a few minutes.  We spend an hour in my aerobics class, me the instructor and she being one of my students. I asked her last Thursday if she could go to lunch with me... .fully prepared for her to say that she couldn't. She had said some very hurtful things on 11/9 and I think she's realizing it now. So with words unsaid we are taking it slow... .I'm not pushing for anything and neither is she. She has started doing what she would normally do like picking up my calls, responding to my texts, coming to my classes, letting me know what she is doing, etc. One of these days she will come around and spend time with me.  This is a cycle that I am pretty much used to now. Each time a rage happens I learn more how to handle it for the next time.

Taking it slow is working for us. Minimal contact is good because it doesn't create drama.

[Diana82]

Thanks... .

It seems she projects a lot on to me.  But I can’t quite figure out why.

I am not a close friend of hers... nor did we date very long (2 months only). It was an intense 2 months but I have not seen her for almost 3 months now.

Is it that the more intense the relationship you had/have, the more they project onto you?

So despite the fact that I haven't seen her for months- I still remain in her head as someone who got close and was sexually intimate?

[Diana82]

Another question (sorry but I find all of this fascinating!) 

Do BPDs tend to lash out at the nearest person due to other stresses in their life?  I’m starting to think that her lash out was fuelled by other stresses that happened that day to her. 

Because literally the day before, she was texting me all happily about her work and what she was doing. And said “Hope you are well   ”

And the next night it seemed like I had called her at a really bad time as she lashed out over text.

I am aware that she had started to see some other woman casually after seeing me and suddenly that woman was blocked on her Facebook that week she lashed out (by the look of it).  I was thinking that maybe she had had a fight with her (or someone else) and took it out on me. My innocent phone call apology somehow triggered her as she was already in a bad mood.

I remember when I was dating her, she had a fight with a friend and then started to try to get rid of me. She was really upset and taking out the fight with her friend on me. She then told me that she keeps “oscillating between manic and mediocre moods and she’s not fun to be around and I deserve better and someone fun"

Then the next day she seemed to have calmed down from this horrible mood and said “It wasn’t my intention... .I didn’t mean to upset you.  I was being really self-destructive and couldn'’t understand why you were being nice to me. I know I need to learn to learn to deal with someone who is kind and rational.  I miss you a bit extra today... ”   

The bit about “I couldn’t understand why you were being so nice to me” didn’t really make sense.  Do they feel undeserving of nice treatment?

And it has got me thinking, that I am a perhaps an easy outlet for her stresses. Perhaps because I am “nice” .

This woman has many friends so I find it hard to believe she treats them all this way! she'd have no friends surely!  I’m starting to think maybe she still has feelings for me, so that’s why she pushes/pulls and lashes out at me.

[Diana82]

Update... .

She replied to my text before and said this:

Truth is I dont know what you say/do I just dont feel myself around you and you make me act quite defensively. Im not a fighter so its sad and strange when I become one. I must need to learn some valuable "life skill" and then we'll revisit all of this! Til then: peace x


I don't know what to say!  What can one say to that. I somehow make her act defensively. :/

She isn't a fighter in person- but she's definitely passive aggressive.

Is the above something a BPD might feel? They get defensive with certain loved ones or friends and can't explain it at all?

[Diana82]

To me it sounds almost like attention seeking...

Like she expects me to pander to her insecurities and try to work out how I make her feel defensive etc. I feel like my emotions and nice nature are being taken advantage of.

I jus can't understand how 2 weeks ago she missed me.

Then now she says I find her insecurities and make her feel not herself!

... maybe she loves me still? Or had feelings still?