Hi. This is my first post.
I am married to a person with BPD. We have been together for almost 15 years, married for eight. She was diagnosed last August (not officially, but almost, at a mental health treatment center). It really wasn't a surprise given some of our history. Alcohol abuse also plays a role here. I used to drink more than I should as well but quit for almost two years and now drink only socially, which isn't much. There is more to our story, and I'll post it eventually, but at this time I'm having very difficult night and am hoping for some help in understanding something, if that's possible.

Why, why, why do BPD's say things they know hurt you terribly? I know we all do that at times when angry or upset, but it's different with them (or at least that is my experience). The latest thing she said just broke me. We are talking seriously about divorce (her more than I). She told me that our entire relationship was not ever real. That it was based on shared life difficulties at the time. (We met during the recession and were both hurting financially, etc. We eventually got back on our feet and moved on to better things). I told her that I had genuinely loved her and still did. It just seemed to make her angry. ***I should add that I had recently returned home from staying with a mutual friend so that we could have some time apart for self-reflection, etc. I guess I kind of initiated things, but it was never meant to be permanent in my mind and I felt I made it clear to her. 
This particular thing she said has just been one of many things she has said to me lately. Most of them have been character attacks, accusations that are kind of crazy actually and hold no merit.
I am so hurt and confused. My head is swimming.
I'm sorry too. I didn't mean my first post to be a pity party. Thanks for listening and reading.

If I understand correctly you had a three month sexual relationship with this woman and then accepted a humiliating relegation to the "friendzone" for two years. During this time you still claimed some sort of relationship rights over her. Now she has a new relationship and has pushed you into the no-contact zone.

This is an example of the paradox of BPD. You will have to admit you did everything wrong during those two years but now have an excellent result: she is out of your life. Had you acted correctly, by distancing yourself from her the moment she broke up, you would have eventually been idealized and she would have reconnected with you. Since you would have held the cards in that situation, you would have to power to make it clear that the friendzone was a no-go and demand sex as a condition of contact.

Since pwBDP's typically have unstable relationships, her new situation will probably deteriorate at some point. She may contact you or may not--she might be hesitant given how clingy you were.

Your best play is to get as far away from her as possible. Use this relationship as a learning experience and try not to make the same mistakes again with future lovers. By distancing yourself from her you will paradoxically raise your value to her. She may eventually send feelers out to get a sense of your situation. Your best move would be to ignore them. Second best is to reject any friendzone situations and make it clear that you are only down for a sexual relationship. Worst would be to go back into her friendzone orbit.

Hi Amina,

Thanks so much for your response. Your situation sounds exhausting as well. Can you share some of the things that have helped in the past to bring you and your partner back together after a split or after a breakup?

I know what I'm in for if we get back together, but I'm desperate for the relationship cycle to start over again. I'm terrified it just never will, and he's gone.

I am beside myself and overwhelmed...

Despite being married and struggling for 20 years, it was just a few months ago that I stumbled across the concept of a "Quiet/High Functioning BPD". It is hard to explain both the overwhelming and simultaneous feelings of grief and relief I experienced as I read the symptoms. I immediately and uncontrollably cried as 20 years of confusing fights and behaviors instantly had context and meaning. I grieved the years we'd lost struggling to communicate through her depression and emptiness. I re-experienced a lifetime of conversations with my best friend through a new (and terrifyingly sad) lens. And, for the first time, I allowed myself to question the harsh criticisms and character assassinations she's held against me.

Most importantly, however, this revelation has provided me compassion and insight into her and her world. And through this, I cannot help but feel ashamed and stupid for not knowing this diagnosis sooner. Likewise, I feel like a failure that she's struggled for so long without me fully understanding the depths of her pain. For those of you who remained in the dark for years, how were you able to forgive yourself and move on?

And secondarily, at the recommendation of our marriage therapist, I shared my BPD concerns with her recently. I prepared myself in advance for a likely rebuke but was surprised that she recognized and acknowledged she met some of the BPD criteria (though she ultimately rejects the diagnosis). I am hopeful that, with time, she may potentially seek help. Unfortunately, hoping and actually seeking help are two very different outcomes. How do I best manage my hopes and expectations? If she ultimately denies this reality and chooses the status quo, how do I cope with this split between our two realities? Any wisdom and tips are very much welcomed and appreciated.

Thank you.

I have a stepdaughter who has left home. She is completely aware of the situation and I have her support. She stays away from her mum as much as possible because of her bod tendencies. One barrier is the rather large get family of animals we share and the unplanned pregnancy if one of them so we are trying to sell off some puppies who I care for mostly.

You are right on the money regarding my feelings that it seems cowardly and immature in regards to leaving that way. I felt I had no option last time but I'm trying to be a better person thus time but that's for her benefit not to mention the guilt and feelings of responsibility. She has health issues and injuries, the extent of which are hard to completely ascertain as to what's genuine or manipulation. Probably a bit of both. I've essentially become a full time carer, isolated. She's tried to climb out a window from the second story once before so I'm always mindful of her unpredictable reactions.
I have some health problems if my own which ordinarily would be manageable but she doesn't want me to work to improve our financial situation because she doesn't want to be home alone and has insecurities and trust issues of me meeting someone else.

I grew up in the country and had a hard time meeting people and a lot of rejections so I met my partner quite late and she was my first and only so my knowledge of what was healthy or remotely normal wasn't great, I suspected but I was willing to take a lot from the first person who showed me affection.

I'd been seeing a psychologist since 2016 but not really bringing up the right stuff, wasn't the right fit. Started seeing someone else 18 months ago who is really good and a few months ago I was finally able to get everything out about what I was going through. It was my sister in law that first told me she suspected she suffered BPD tendencies, she's a Dr.

My psychs insights had been really good and she had suspected as much from what I had been telling her.

Having given her the history she said herself that it is likely I would have to wait for a blowup between us to make the move given her unpredictability and difficulty in communicating with her.

My problem is my freezing and fear, I just can't get the words out or the strength to do what I need to.

Recently we've just started talking about schemas. Most of it was kind of obvious to both of us anyway so I'm yet to find out if these change anything in regards to moving forward but obviously I'm a strong compliant surrenderer, failure etc.

When I get to the moment I think could be a sliding doors moment and have a whole different life, or have one back in just a few minutes, I usually freeze and cave in. And that's out of fear of the unpredictable responses, exhaustion from nearly 20 years of this as my only relationship and just wanting everyone to be happy, usually at my expense, I just try to survive the argument and get to the relative relief of the down periods where there is no arguing, just not having a life.

I never really understood suicide before but the last six months or more I've been really enlightened if that's the right word? I can see how/why some might feel it's their only option. It's been really tough and it's crossed my mind as easier for everyone. Stupid I know.

So for now I'm just waiting for some small thing maybe to get the strength to say we need to separate. In saying that, I've had my opportunities in the past few weeks with the same result of me just backing down and then breaking down in private when I get a moment alone.

I'm up til 2-3am most nights journalling or researching or alone with my thoughts before being up for the dogs who have probably saved me. Due to her health issues we sleep separately most nights so gives me that chance.

I have read the "no contact" article and it was certainly relevant for when I got away last time, not that I was successful obviously.

Sorry for the length of that to whoever reads

It happens sometimes this way.  Not often, but notice how she's blaming you?

Let the kids be assured that you'll help them get through this.  Validate them that divorce is an adult matter and they should not be put in the middle.

Very important... If the money is coming from your retirement account to her, you have to follow the rules of that QDRO process.  I used an online company that were experts on doing this and relatively inexpensive.  Otherwise my lawyer said he'd charge me more and hand me off to a company he used, for even more money.

I used to work as a programmer for a retirement IRA/401k, etc company.  The spouse never sends money directly to the ex-spouse or else there may be tax consequences.  You have to file a DRO (Domestic Relations Order) with the divorce court who authorizes it to proceed.  Once all the details are made, then the plan's administrator reviews (I had a 401k) and Qualifies it as a QDRO and court is notified.  At that point - and only then - the retirement company splits off the said amount from your account in your name into a new account (if one does not already exist there) in ex's name.  Then ex is notified that the money is there and she may request whatever money she wishes from her account.  Last, the court is notified the QDRO is completed.

If it's not ROTH then she has the financial responsibility to include it in her tax filings.

But, you may ask, what if you take the easy path and have your IRA mail her a check in her name directing it to be deposited into her IRA/401k account?  The huge problem is that she'll instead deposit it into her regular accounts and spend it.  Then the tax obligation defaults to... you guessed it, you.  So don't take the shortcut!

That was the process a decade ago.  Stick to the process!  Otherwise you might have to pay the 10% penalty for early withdrawal plus the tax obligation too.

Mikeyz,

Welcome to the board. The behaviors you describe are familiar to a lot of people here.

You're right that you "should move on because it's really toxic and it completely destroyed my mental health and self esteem."

The thinking of people with BPD contains major distortions. So you may never get an "explanation" that fully makes sense and that facilitates proper closure.  People with BPD, in general, can't attach and love someone in a stable, mature way. But the idealization and intensity can create an intoxicating whirlwind. I think a lot of people on this board (myself included) go through a long phase of trying to understand the psychology beneath this disorder (to try to make sense of what happened to them). In this regard, I found object relations theory somewhat helpful (here are postings from one board member who wrote a lot about that).

I hope time brings you distance and peace.

Kindness,

I think your message was really good. Alas, your daughter was nasty in her reply and isn’t ready for respectful communications, and she’s not ready to move forward. Yet.

I would give her time and space, but no money. I wouldn’t “block” her (I confess I don’t even know how to do that). I think she’ll approach you again when she needs something, and the lines of communication stay open. You try again, holding fast to your boundaries. If a birthday or holiday comes up before then, maybe you could send a simple Happy Birthday, I’m thinking of you text and see what happens.

I know it’s impossible not to be worried sick about her. I also suspect that cannabis or drug use is feeding her dysfunction (that happened with my stepdaughter). But she is stuck in her rut of the status quo right now, and if you give her money while she mistreats you, she will remain stuck in the rut, while your resources are depleted. She needs to hit a bottom and decide to want to change. I think you’ll know it when you see it. I’m sorry you and she have to suffer in the meantime.

Maybe this can help. I've got another thread where I describe some of the issues dating a woman that likely had BPD. You might check that out.

Some of what you wrote rings true to my own experience, including her still being involved with an ex that she claimed was platonic but later admitted to cheating with, only to take that back. Never a straight answer with her, and I suppose if she was cheating on me with him, then from his perspective, she was cheating on him with me.

After I broke it off for the final time, I did the usual postmortem. Except with her, there were always more questions than answers. I could have jumped into another relationship right after, which would certainly have distracted me (not to mention helped cure the sex withdrawal), but that wouldn't have been fair to the new girlfriend. Or to me.

So, I did a lot of thinking, as well as going online and looking up information and talking to people who were smarter and clearer-headed than me. Some of what I came to realize:

1) There will never be a fully rational explanation for her behavior. Trying to find one is fruitless. Yes, I can think of the medical and psychological causes for her actions, but that at best only explains the operation, not the operator.

2) When you're dealing with someone with profound mental and/or emotional issues, you can't apply the thinking of someone with a healthy mind. When we break up with someone mentally well, we still have unresolved thoughts and feelings, but we can begin to reconcile these by applying what we know someone healthy does. Little or none of that applies to someone who is unhealthy.

3) Untangling emotions -- which are irrational -- is tough enough when we are involved with someone mentally healthy. It's even tougher when they are not. We understand emotions like, say, anger or jealousy because they have a root in something that makes sense. With a mentally ill person, that's no longer true. Actions that cause reactions are not sane.

4) Everything gets worse with someone who is mentally and/or emotionally ill who then just jumps into another relationship, especially if it's immediately after our breakup. It's natural to wonder why or if there's something about the new person that we lack. We wonder if we could have done something differently to save the relationship, especially if that new relationship seems to be working. Again, while these are normal behaviors, they only apply to someone who is mentally and/emotionally healthy. We can't expect someone who is unhealthy to make decisions that make sense.

My point is that while it's good to find out as much as possible about something like BPD (or anxiety/CPTSD) so that we understand the nature of the other person and hopefully heal faster or better, we should do so without the expectation that we will actually understand the other person. That's just not possible in the conventional sense. And putting that much focus on the other person just makes it harder to move past them and on to someone else who is actually healthy. Our attention should be on us.

The emotional hurdles are hard. Hearing a favorite song or going past a restaurant we used to go to together is not easy. And it's perfectly normal to feel haunted by those experiences. But to me, the road to recovery comes from first acknowledging that the ex's problems are not a reflection of us. We didn't cause them, and we're not responsible for them.

The second issue is to understand that even with professional help, their illness will stay with them. Perhaps they will go into remission, but like an alcoholic, they are always one thin moment from giving in. Some might be able to fight it. Some might be successful. But it takes enormous effort. And giving in is binary -- they do or don't. It's that simple. That tempting.

That means whoever they are with will be under the same constant threat. They are not in a better situation than we were. They did not win some prize. In fact, because we are no longer in their shoes, we are in the better situation. We'll remain so as long as we stay away from the ex.

Lastly, keep in mind that from the outside, things almost always look better than they are. If that doesn't make sense, think of all the times we were in conflict with our ex and no one else knew. Think of how many times we were in the same physical space but might as well have been a thousand miles away. Think of every smiling photograph that hid the argument a few moments before or after. Think of every lie the ex said or every cheat they indulged when they thought they could get away with it. That's what the next person is going through. No amount of smiles, handholding, or pics on social media changes that, any more than it did when we were with them.

If you keep all this in mind, maybe it will help with the healing. But you didn't lose anything. You escaped. You got out of something that had no future except more misery or worse. If you're only remembering the "good times," keep in mind they were like only seeing the top of the iceberg, and the bad times were the rest, the part that wrecks ships. If anyone lost anything, it was the ex. But then they're always going to lose. That's not sour grapes. That's just the sad reality of their condition. You, on the other hand, have hope.

Thanks again for all the help and support in this group, from parents who are dealing with similar issues. I find the help here is so relevant, and really appreciate anyone who responds.

As an update, I decided to pull the string with my daughter where she suggested joint therapy, hoping that might offer a way forward. This is the email I sent after her last one:

Sweetie, I am sorry you are feeling that I am trying to manipulate you and abuse you in regards to finances.

There seem to be so many misunderstandings - on both our parts, about what we each expect.

I know (a friend who she had asked to act as an intermediary) has done has his best to help, but I think it is best if we communicate directly rather than through a third party. I only hear from him occasionally by text and I know he is busy with many other things. I don't think it is fair to ask him to try to keep being a liaison between us. It isn't surprising this has led to misunderstandings, through no fault of his. (this friend of hers has tried valiantly to help her communicate with me, but has also told me he can no longer act as an intermediary and is totally frustrated by my daughter's actions)

I do want to support you until you can get back on your feet, but I believe this is important enough that we need to have a much more thorough and detailed discussion about it, than can happen through brief text messages with a third party.

My support is only because I am your mom, I love and believe in you and want you to thrive again as I know you can! My motivation to help you is not helped by threats and abusive language - if anything, that hurts and makes me want to stop communicating. I hope you can understand that and I expect you feel the same way.

Because this is difficult for both of us, I like your idea of including a therapist to help.

If you would like to identify one or two qualified therapists who you would feel comfortable with, that seems like it would be a good place to start. I hope we can agree on one and that they would be willing to do this work with us. I am willing to pay a reasonable therapist's fee for a period of time to help us make this happen.

I hope you will take that step and that it will be the new beginning for both of us in communicating openly and compassionately with each other.

Please let me know if you would like to start there.

I love you,

mom

Her response today: 'you are a disgusting woman please leave me alone'

I am feeling so defeated by this. My friends and family think I should just withdraw and let her go. But when I read her emails, I see such a hurt person, who is striking back and who is panicked and needs help. I know her financial circumstances are precarious. At this point, I seem to be the only one who sees this, and the only one in her life who is offering support of any kind.

Is there anything in my message to her that I should have phrased differently? Should I take a different approach?

She would like me to provide her with at least $2000 unlimited funds a month, with no restriction on their use. I can maybe afford this with a lot of sacrifices, but feel she should first have more discussion about a budget and a financial plan that leads back to her financial independence. I don't believe in providing endless financial support as it seems to just enable her dysfunctional behaviour.  I've offered to pay her financial advisor to develop a financial recovery plan. My thinking is that any financial support from me would be contingent on her following that plan. Plus it seems all she really wants to talk to me about is money - no other kind of relationship. Thinking as compassionately about her as someone who is very ill, what would you do? Thanks for anyone who wants to weigh in!