New Beginnings & Boundaries 8...

[MaroonLiquid]

My previous thread is https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=274703.0.

    Well, after several days without posting, wanted to give an update since my wife has returned from her business trip.  Things have been going great.  There have been some moments that I could have gotten upset, but chose not to and show some grace.  

    It started when my wife returned from her business trip when we were on her way back to her house from picking her up from the airport on Thursday.  She seemed kind of short at times with me, and at the same time, talking with the kids a bunch.  I didn't show that it bothered me and just stayed quiet.  We got on the subject of Facebook and I asked if she had seen something on there that was pretty funny.  She said, "I thought you got rid of your Facebook."  I said, "No, I have been back on there for months and I wouldn't be able to have started a team page for softball without one."  She said, "Oh."  I knew she knew that but again, just let it go.     

   

    When we got home she had gotten the kids some gifts while away and gave the gifts to them.  It was a bit awkward when she didn't get me anything, but I just acted like it was no big deal and didn't even mention anything.  I think the kids noticed definitely noticed as they looked as if they were waiting to see what she got me, but when they realized she didn't, they didn't say anything either.  I think my wife noticed it from them because she said, "I want to take you out for your birthday to celebrate in the next few days and to show appreciation for staying here and taking care of everything."  I said that was very nice and to just let me know when she could do it.  She asked me to stay the night and I did and everything was great.

    Friday went great as well and we did something we haven't done in a long time.  We went to lunch and then went back to her place.  We spent some quality time together that afternoon and relaxed.  That night, we went to dinner as a family and had a phenomenal time.  My son wanted to spend the night so I took him back to my place.  

    We got up Saturday and were supposed to go to my son's baseball game but it was rained out.  We spent the afternoon with my wife and then had to drop our daughter and my son at my ex-wife's house to spend the night for my daughter's birthday party.  My wife invited me to my son's ROTC awards ceremony right after dropping them off and we went.  It was great to go as I haven't been to much of their stuff this year because of all the stuff that has gone on.  We talked about him going to college in a little over a year and her having to fill out financial aid forms in a couple of months.  SOmething hit me that her getting a divorce is a way to drop her income possibly to help with that, but not sure (just a thought).  I validated how big of a deal that was.  She then asked if I wanted to stay with her and us ride across town to the softball tournament together and I said that would be great.  We went to her house and went to bed.  

    We had a softball tournament yesterday morning starting at 8:00AM and had to be there at 7:00AM so I could get all the girls warmed up.  Everything went great and our team finished second out of our entire city and the 12 teams that were entered!  It was awesome!  After that, we went home and discussed how awesome it was that our 3 daughters made All-Stars and were looking forward to it and then me starting up a select softball team of my own and how good it's going to be for them to continue playing together.  We laid on her bed for a while last night with our oldest daughter between su and held hands.

    This morning she was telling me how proud she was of me and that she was looking forward to seeing me coach a select team.  Then a bit later, she texted and said her lawyer contacted her regarding the divorce and there are some things we needed to discuss.  I just said, "Ok."  I wonder if this even really happened.  It seems to me like it's definitely part of her push/pull game, especially after things that bring us closer together and to see if I will get triggered.  Then a bit later I texted about dinner and other things.

    This is where I still have trouble sometimes.  I still don't understand going forward with a divorce (if she even is)when there is obviously so much between us.  To me, this is so much more difficult.  I am so much better now than I used to be and don't get frustrated anymore with it, but still try and process it (which I can't).  For several months now, everything has been going extremely well for the most part between us with no dysregulations.  Things have actually improved since she filed (which to me is backwards).  We hold hands, are intimate, loving to one another.  She calls me "dad" or "papa" in front of her kids, tells me she loves me.  Now the kids are telling me they love me again, and honestly, I don't think they know she filed.  It is weird at times, but I like where my relationship is with them right now.  They see that I am stable, loving to them, take care of them and I think they are questioning quite a bit in their minds.  They probably question why I am still here!      Anyway, I'm still taking it day by day.  I have people giving me unsolicited advice on several fronts at times about how to handle her and that gets frustrating.  People always think they know better.  

   

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

So my wife invited me over for dinner last night and at first, I was a little gunshy because of some of the divorce stuff she brought up that we "needed to discuss" and I agreed to discuss it by saying, "OK".  Regardless of me being gunshy, I went.  She didn't bring it up and obviously neither did I (I would have discussed it if she would have brought it up).  Whatever was going through her mind yesterday when asking me to talk about those things, those are her thoughts and I won't get wrapped up in them.  Last night was another great night as we went to the bookstore with the kids and went back to her place and spent some quality time together.  One day at a time.  

[Grey Kitty]

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

It is great to hear how things are going with the kids. 

[MaroonLiquid]

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

It is great to hear how things are going with the kids. 

I may be "settling in" to it, but why do I find it so strange?  I can't wrap my head around this whole thing at times.     I feel like we play "house" (not in a fake way though), we haven't stopped calling each other pet names (honey, babe, etc.), we are intimate regularly, her kids tell me they love me, we get along better than we have in ages, but yet we can't admit this is a relationship or talk about commitment?    I don't get how they justify these things that don't make sense in their mind... .

[OffRoad]

Maroon, is it possible that by filing for divorce, she feels like she doesn't have to worry about abandonment (since she is doing the abandoning) and is therefore in a less stressed space? My H emotionally separated from me a while back, and I said nothing, just kept moving along with my life. He finally started accusing me of things I hadn't done to get a rise out of me, and when I did argue with him, he then said we should be room mates for the sake of our son, and he moved out of the bedroom. As soon as he did that, he stopped picking fights. He did everything I ever asked him to do, but would absolutely NOT do previously. Started doing things that nonBPDs just do as a matter of course. (like common courtesy). It almost felt like having been relieved of the responsibility of required emotional involvement, he could manage the rest of his life.

[MaroonLiquid]

Maroon, is it possible that by filing for divorce, she feels like she doesn't have to worry about abandonment (since she is doing the abandoning) and is therefore in a less stressed space?

I've thought about this and think that is exactly what it could be.  It's still weird to me that it is "emotionally easier" to be in the middle of a filed divorce... .Someone I trust made the comment, "It's almost like she feels she has to blow everything up to fix it when healthy people try and fix it before it blows up."  It made complete sense in a nonsensical way. 

My H emotionally separated from me a while back, and I said nothing, just kept moving along with my life. He finally started accusing me of things I hadn't done to get a rise out of me, and when I did argue with him, he then said we should be room mates for the sake of our son, and he moved out of the bedroom. As soon as he did that, he stopped picking fights. He did everything I ever asked him to do, but would absolutely NOT do previously. Started doing things that nonBPDs just do as a matter of course. (like common courtesy). It almost felt like having been relieved of the responsibility of required emotional involvement, he could manage the rest of his life.

So how has it been going or how did it end up?

[OffRoad]

I've thought about this and think that is exactly what it could be.  It's still weird to me that it is "emotionally easier" to be in the middle of a filed divorce... .Someone I trust made the comment, "It's almost like she feels she has to blow everything up to fix it when healthy people try and fix it before it blows up."  It made complete sense in a nonsensical way. 

Gawd, this makes so much sense, in the way that nothing really makes logical sense in a pwBPD relationship. I would swear that my H used to pick fights so he could just blow off steam and then make everything OK. (Not realizing, of course, that each time he did that, I'd move further away emotionally)

My H emotionally separated from me a while back, and I said nothing, just kept moving along with my life. He finally started accusing me of things I hadn't done to get a rise out of me, and when I did argue with him, he then said we should be room mates for the sake of our son, and he moved out of the bedroom. As soon as he did that, he stopped picking fights. He did everything I ever asked him to do, but would absolutely NOT do previously. Started doing things that nonBPDs just do as a matter of course. (like common courtesy). It almost felt like having been relieved of the responsibility of required emotional involvement, he could manage the rest of his life.

So how has it been going or how did it end up?

Still working on it. He is still in the spare room (been about three months-that's when I found this site, thank goodness), still emotionally distant, but being nicer to me most days than he's ever been in his life EVER. (I suspect there might be some mid life crisis added in). He has started eating the food I cook again, yesterday even cleaned the pan from what I cooked because he was late coming home and the last one to eat; cooks me food sometimes (to the point of asking me if I'm hungry before he decides what he is going to make for himself); sits and talks with me or watches TV and only occasionally disappears without warning; takes the trash out without being asked; asks if someone else wants anything if he is going to get a soda; has stopped farting and laughing about it while we are all together watching TV; calls to say when he is leaving work; more that I can't remember right now. 

But I didn't play into his separation, either. There was nothing I could do, as what caused the initial outburst on his part was in his imagination and I have no idea what emotion it was coming from. So I just kept moving forward, being polite, validating, avoiding arguments (with the help of some great suggestions from here).

He has also finally realized that the job he is in is a dead end and is looking for another one (this job has been the bane of our existence, but he could not see it).  Getting a job where he is appreciated can only be better.

[123Phoebe]

I've thought about this and think that is exactly what it could be.  It's still weird to me that it is "emotionally easier" to be in the middle of a filed divorce... .Someone I trust made the comment, "It's almost like she feels she has to blow everything up to fix it when healthy people try and fix it before it blows up."  It made complete sense in a nonsensical way.  

Gawd, this makes so much sense, in the way that nothing really makes logical sense in a pwBPD relationship. I would swear that my H used to pick fights so he could just blow off steam and then make everything OK. 

I remember thinking, it's like he needs to be cruel to be kind... .

(Not realizing, of course, that each time he did that, I'd move further away emotionally)

Not me man, I was drawn like a moth to a flame   Gimme more, feels so right.  I gotta figure this out.

[Grey Kitty]

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

I may be "settling in" to it, but why do I find it so strange?  I can't wrap my head around this whole thing at times.    

'Cuz it IS that strange and dysfunctional and bizarre!

The system/logic behind it, as Offroad and 123Phoebe are finding with you... .doesn't make it any less strange!

[123Phoebe]

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

I may be "settling in" to it, but why do I find it so strange?  I can't wrap my head around this whole thing at times.    

'Cuz it IS that strange and dysfunctional and bizarre!

The system/logic behind it, as Offroad and 123Phoebe are finding with you... .doesn't make it any less strange!

That's why it's called a disorder.

[MaroonLiquid]

It almost felt like having been relieved of the responsibility of required emotional involvement, he could manage the rest of his life.

I can totally relate to this comment.

So how has it been going or how did it end up?

Still working on it. He is still in the spare room (been about three months-that's when I found this site, thank goodness), still emotionally distant, but being nicer to me most days than he's ever been in his life EVER. (I suspect there might be some mid life crisis added in). He has started eating the food I cook again, yesterday even cleaned the pan from what I cooked because he was late coming home and the last one to eat; cooks me food sometimes (to the point of asking me if I'm hungry before he decides what he is going to make for himself); sits and talks with me or watches TV and only occasionally disappears without warning; takes the trash out without being asked; asks if someone else wants anything if he is going to get a soda; has stopped farting and laughing about it while we are all together watching TV; calls to say when he is leaving work; more that I can't remember right now.  [/quote]
Yeah, my wife has in the last few months gone back to acting like a wife (majority of the time) and there is a lot more emotional closeness when we are together.  We talk regularly on the phone and on text, and the physical intimacy has resumed as it used to (2-4 times a week).  She now wants to take me out for my birthday.  I noticed the other day that when we saw a mutual friend at a shoe store, she tagged my wife and I both in a post on Facebook (my wife still has me blocked), and when that happened, my wife kind of backed off emotionally a tad.  I didn't let it bother me.  She can be standoffish in public at times and again, don't make a big deal about it or say anything.  What GK said earlier in this thread is basically what it is... .

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

Still not sure how long this can last realistically but will take it day by day.  She said we needed to discuss things regarding the divorce, but we haven't.  I think that was bait to try and get my triggered.  if that's the case, she failed.

I remember thinking, it's like he needs to be cruel to be kind... .

(Not realizing, of course, that each time he did that, I'd move further away emotionally)

Not me man, I was drawn like a moth to a flame   Gimme more, feels so right.  I gotta figure this out.

I can relate to this too.  It's almost like they need us to build their self esteem.

The other day I talked about getting unwanted relationship advice and find myself getting triggered by mo own mother.  She is either BPD or NPD.  She really pisses me off.  She tells me I need to bring up the divorce all the time  to my wife and/orleave her alone until she gets help.  Tells me to divorce her and move on with my life.  I tell her all the time to leave me alone about it, stop talking about it, yet she pushes me to outright hate filled rage or just angry sometimes.  I hate it.  She did it to me today, and even though I didn't rage or get angry, I feel myself get triggered.  Everytime she pushes me to that point, she hangs up on me and makes everything out to be my fault.  Sometimes I want to cut her out of my life... .I am at the point where now I am in a "manageable" place with my wife and not wanting to have anything to do with my mom.   SHe triggers me more by telling me that my anger is all misplaced and should be directed at my wife... .My FOO sucks most of the time... .

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

I may be "settling in" to it, but why do I find it so strange?  I can't wrap my head around this whole thing at times.    

'Cuz it IS that strange and dysfunctional and bizarre!

The system/logic behind it, as Offroad and 123Phoebe are finding with you... .doesn't make it any less strange!

Yeah... .it is bizarre.  What was that song about a decade ago called, I think, "How Bizarre"?    

You seem to be settling into the idea of having a don't-admit-this-is-actually-a-relationship-or-talk-about-any-commitment relationship with your wife.

I may be "settling in" to it, but why do I find it so strange?  I can't wrap my head around this whole thing at times.   

'Cuz it IS that strange and dysfunctional and bizarre!

The system/logic behind it, as Offroad and 123Phoebe are finding with you... .doesn't make it any less strange!

That's why it's called a disorder.

Yep.

[OffRoad]

Still not sure how long this can last realistically but will take it day by day.  She said we needed to discuss things regarding the divorce, but we haven't.  I think that was bait to try and get my triggered.  if that's the case, she failed.

I think failing to trigger nons helps balance the pwBPD. It's like they can feel more stable if we are more stable.

I can relate to this too.  It's almost like they need us to build their self esteem.

The other day I talked about getting unwanted relationship advice and find myself getting triggered by mo own mother.  She is either BPD or NPD.  She really pisses me off.  She tells me I need to bring up the divorce all the time  to my wife and/orleave her alone until she gets help.  Tells me to divorce her and move on with my life.  I tell her all the time to leave me alone about it, stop talking about it, yet she pushes me to outright hate filled rage or just angry sometimes.  I hate it.  She did it to me today, and even though I didn't rage or get angry, I feel myself get triggered.  Everytime she pushes me to that point, she hangs up on me and makes everything out to be my fault.  Sometimes I want to cut her out of my life... .I am at the point where now I am in a "manageable" place with my wife and not wanting to have anything to do with my mom.   SHe triggers me more by telling me that my anger is all misplaced and should be directed at my wife... .My FOO sucks most of the time... .

Got to love those FOO members with the disorder that caused us to end up with someone else of a similar disorder, eh? It's been weird for me, though. As soon as I found this site, my mother cannot trigger me anymore. When she asks about H being bizarre, I just throw up my hands and say, "It is what it is". and move on to some other topic. My favorite recent anecdote with my mother:

I took her to get a blood test and to pick up some medication. She spewed garbage at the person who took her blood (that woman had so much patience, and still almost lost it). She spewed garbage at me on the way to get the prescription. I didn't react. I started to get out of the car to get the prescription, and she was going to stay in it. I said : "Wait, let me roll down the windows so you can b!tch at the passersby." and went in to get the prescription.

And yet I don't feel like a terrible person... .

[MaroonLiquid]

I think failing to trigger nons helps balance the pwBPD. It's like they can feel more stable if we are more stable.

I can agree with this.  It's almost like she got triggered and was looking to me for stability in that moment.

Got to love those FOO members with the disorder that caused us to end up with someone else of a similar disorder, eh?

Right?

It's been weird for me, though. As soon as I found this site, my mother cannot trigger me anymore. When she asks about H being bizarre, I just throw up my hands and say, "It is what it is". and move on to some other topic. My favorite recent anecdote with my mother:

I try and do that.  Now, I find myself where the conflict with my wife has been traded out for conflict with my mom.

[MaroonLiquid]

I think failing to trigger nons helps balance the pwBPD. It's like they can feel more stable if we are more stable.

I can agree with this.  It's almost like she got triggered and was looking to me for stability in that moment.

Got to love those FOO members with the disorder that caused us to end up with someone else of a similar disorder, eh?

Right?

It's been weird for me, though. As soon as I found this site, my mother cannot trigger me anymore. When she asks about H being bizarre, I just throw up my hands and say, "It is what it is". and move on to some other topic. My favorite recent anecdote with my mother:

I try and do that.  Now, I find myself where the conflict with my wife has been traded out for conflict with my mom.

During the day yesterday, I noticed my wife was pulling back on text and didn't dwell on it.  I asked her if she wanted to have lunch Friday.  We agreed last Friday when we were having lunch that we missed our Friday lunches together and the time we spend and wanted to start doing it again.  She responded that she was having a lunch with a friend from church.  I validated that I was glad she was doing that and glad that she had a friend she could do that with as that was always a desire of her heart.  Later, she had said that she was going to choir practice at church last night and hasn't been there in almost a month after joining like a month and a half ago.  I started to get the feeling that she was splitting because she had to be that "other persona" in front of these people she painted me black to for so long, but again, not worried about the why.  It's hard not to be though at times.  So yesterday afternoon, I stopped by to replace a swiffer wet jet and broom that broke while my wife was out of town.  When I got there, I noticed my wife "changed" a bit toward me.  She gave me one of those "friend" hugs where she pat me on the back and turned her face when I went to give her a kiss.  Again, acted nonchalant about it and she made the statement that she was leaving with our daughter to go run an errand.  She asked me to go and just said to take my car since it was halfway to my house.  I walked around a store with them for about 30 minutes while they looked at make-up.  Everything went ok and I was putting my arm around her in the store.  After they spent $400 dollars (yes, you read that right  .  I was shocked.  Is that normal for women?) on make-up, we left the store.  We got to her car and she asked what I was going to do and I told her, "Not much except relax."  She said ok and gave me that "friend" hug again.  We drove off separately and I called her to ask her if she wanted to watch a movie when she got home from choir.  She said that she would see how she feels and call me after choir practice.  I said, "OK, no problem."  She didn't. 

     This morning, I texted to say good morning and she was pretty standoffish.  I could definitely tell there was some splitting going on.  She texted asking about our divorce and I responded at first and asked, "Can you help me to understand why you continue on with the divorce?  Things are going well for us, the kids are happy and we can build from here together."  Notice I never mentioned counseling.  Her response was, "We've been through this several times, ML.  If you don't want to be involved in this process then I will do the best I can myself."  I responded with, "We agreed that we would split our tax liability 50-50 like two weeks ago.  As far as the other thing, I will need to think about it and get back to you."

     I'm a little down (not upset, not crying, just down) as it breaks my heart that she has to create chaos where there is none.  It's almost like she thrives on chaos and can't function without it.  She made the statement when we first got together, "I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop."  I've learned that more often than not she creates the "shoe" and drops it.  She can't be happy for very long. 

     My mom and I had another difficult conversation.  She tells me that I'm handling things wrong (of course she does) and that I should tell her to finish the divorce and leave me the hell alone.  She said, "Watch how fast she comes running.  She thinks you'll put up with anything."  That isn't true, as I have held much firmer boundaries over the last few months.  My mom is so generous with the advice... .       

[Grey Kitty]

Sorry to be hard on you when you are down, ML... .but you took the cues from your wife the wrong way here.

During the day yesterday, I noticed my wife was pulling back on text and didn't dwell on it.  I asked her if she wanted to have lunch Friday.  We agreed last Friday when we were having lunch that we missed our Friday lunches together and the time we spend and wanted to start doing it again.  She responded that she was having a lunch with a friend from church

Your first 'push' cue was the not texting.

Your next 'push' cue was that she tried politely to get out of lunch with you, without making an issue of it.

When I got there, I noticed my wife "changed" a bit toward me.  She gave me one of those "friend" hugs where she pat me on the back and turned her face when I went to give her a kiss.

This was a stronger 'push' cue.

We got to her car and she asked what I was going to do and I told her, "Not much except relax."  She said ok and gave me that "friend" hug again.  We drove off separately and I called her to ask her if she wanted to watch a movie when she got home from choir.  She said that she would see how she feels and call me after choir practice.  I said, "OK, no problem."  She didn't. 

Another push cue when she politely said she would 'see how she feels'

And a stronger cue when she didn't call.

This morning, I texted to say good morning and she was pretty standoffish.  I could definitely tell there was some splitting going on.  She texted asking about our divorce

Yep, she's still pushing you away, and you still are chasing after her even now. Time for her to bring up the big guns and talk about divorce.

I'm a little down (not upset, not crying, just down) as it breaks my heart that she has to create chaos where there is none.  It's almost like she thrives on chaos and can't function without it.  She made the statement when we first got together, "I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop."  I've learned that more often than not she creates the "shoe" and drops it.  She can't be happy for very long. 

 Sorry man, it is tough that she has to create conflict to push you away. But you are part of the problem here. Look at it this way:

She is feeling something (purely inside herself, has nothing to do with you!), and her solution is to take space, push you away. She's mentally ill, and cannot ask for it in a straightforward, kind, and productive way. She plays games instead.

What do you think would have happened if you had simply noticed that she was holding back on texting you... .and decided that this was about her, and not pursued her, waiting for her to come around on her own?

What if you had not even reminded her about the Friday lunch thing?

What if you hadn't tried to kiss her when she'd already given you a 'friend' hug?

What if you hadn't invited her to watch a movie?

Do you think she would have needed to bring up the divorce issue with you again?

You kept coming back at her, so she kept beating you off with successively bigger sticks.

     My mom and I had another difficult conversation.  She tells me that I'm handling things wrong (of course she does) and that I should tell her to finish the divorce and leave me the hell alone.  She said, "Watch how fast she comes running.  She thinks you'll put up with anything."  That isn't true, as I have held much firmer boundaries over the last few months.  My mom is so generous with the advice... .   

   

How about enforcing boundaries with your mom?

I'm thinking "I won't discuss my marriage with you" would be a good one. It is real simple, if not easy... .

Mom, I don't want to talk about that with you... .have I told you about (... .girls in softball... .the weather... .politics... .anything 'safe'

If she changes the topic back to unwanted advice, politely come up with a reason you have to go right now, and say goodbye.

She'll figure it out.

[MaroonLiquid]

Sorry to be hard on you when you are down, ML... .but you took the cues from your wife the wrong way here.

 Sorry man, it is tough that she has to create conflict to push you away. But you are part of the problem here. Look at it this way:

She is feeling something (purely inside herself, has nothing to do with you!), and her solution is to take space, push you away. She's mentally ill, and cannot ask for it in a straightforward, kind, and productive way. She plays games instead.

What do you think would have happened if you had simply noticed that she was holding back on texting you... .and decided that this was about her, and not pursued her, waiting for her to come around on her own?

No apology necessary.  Already thought about it.  I did at first, but felt rejected a little.  Don't know why I went back to that.  Obviously I still have some growing to do in not taking it personally.  Beating myself up about it... .Feel like a failure somewhat.  Still hard to not take it personally when the push away the person that loves them.

What if you had not even reminded her about the Friday lunch thing?

What if you hadn't tried to kiss her when she'd already given you a 'friend' hug?

What if you hadn't invited her to watch a movie?

Do you think she would have needed to bring up the divorce issue with you again?

You kept coming back at her, so she kept beating you off with successively bigger sticks.

 

Yep... .Feels like two steps backward... .Even though there is no dysregulation involved... .

How about enforcing boundaries with your mom?

[Grey Kitty]

Hey Maroon, don't beat yourself up over it--what she is doing is f***'ed up, and the best ways to deal with it are unnatural and uncomfortable. You're kinda stuck in a really difficult situation now, with no clean ways to a good, normal, healthy relationship, without abandoning kids that are very important to you, and a woman you care about a great deal.

BTW, when I said sorry, I wasn't apologizing for pointing out your part--I was saying that I'm sorry you're stuck dealing with her part. 

Take a moment to pat yourself on the back for how much better you are doing than you were before.

Even this time, you kinda knew you were backsliding a little... .and that kind of awareness will help you do better tomorrow.

It is really hard to not take it personally. And you just can't manage it all the time.

[123Phoebe]

So yesterday afternoon, I stopped by to replace a swiffer wet jet and broom that broke while my wife was out of town.  When I got there, I noticed my wife "changed" a bit toward me.  She gave me one of those "friend" hugs where she pat me on the back and turned her face when I went to give her a kiss.       

Maroon, did she know you were coming over with the swiffer, or did you drop by unannounced?

[formflier]

 

Maroon,

 

I think you may feel better if you find a part of your life to improve.  It seems you have figured out that you will have a "non-r/s" r/s with your wife.

I think you are getting the hang of patterns... .hopefully you can notice things a bit earlier. 

I was struck about the mom situation... .

I'm a guy with a "difficult" mom as well.  Mine trys to play really nice... .put a nice face on it... .but she is high maintenance.  So... .I've got to a place where I spend the time I can stand around her... .(we live in same small town)... .and I don't worry about the rest. 

One thing that did me a lot of good (before I even knew what boundaries were... .years ago)... .is I stopped accepting advice from my mom. 


I still ask and accept advice from my Dad... .it is rare he brings something up without me asking.

So... .I've got a lot of kids... .so there are lots of things for grandparents to think about and give advice on.  My tagline was "I appreciate your input... .I'll consider it as I make a decision... ."   Maybe not the best thing... .but I was consistent... .and I think she figured it out... .because I can't remember the last time I got any advice from my mom.

Here is the thing... .I would recommend that your response not be about the "issue"... .but about unsolicited advice in general.

Any thoughts on how you could word that? 

Reasons why I bring this up:  Formflier's law of energy... .  You only have so much... .your primary r/s is consuming a lot of it... .and that r/s is important to you.  So... ."reserve" a bunch of energy for your primary r/s.

So... .that means you are going to have to "take" that energy from your r/s with your mom... .and give it to another place in your life.

I would be a big fan of giving it back to you... .I'm a bit concerned about putting more energy into your primary r/s... .that it would look like chasing.

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

So yesterday afternoon, I stopped by to replace a swiffer wet jet and broom that broke while my wife was out of town.  When I got there, I noticed my wife "changed" a bit toward me.  She gave me one of those "friend" hugs where she pat me on the back and turned her face when I went to give her a kiss.      

Maroon, did she know you were coming over with the swiffer, or did you drop by unannounced?

Yes, she knew as we talked about it earlier yesterday and told her I was bringing it by after work.

Tonight at softball, everything was fine.  My wife bought me some dinner that I ate right before the game.  After the game, as I was walking back to my car and my wife was telling me that my 6YO son got the first unassisted double play ever in his division tonight while I was warming the girls up for their game.  We were done talking and my wife started to walk to her car in another parking lot and my car was really close.  I was putting my stuff in the car and she walked up to me and I said, ":)o you need a ride to your car?"  She said, "No, but we need to sit down and talk about some things and get them resolved.  You didn't call me back after lunch."  I responded with, "Yeah, sorry about that.  I was really busy at work trying to get some projects done.  I'll be glad to sit down with you and get that done."  I said it very calmly, honestly and without any tone.  I guess that wasn't good enough for her because she walked off without saying another word.  I don't understand why she feels the need to try and start something after softball.  I didn't bite on her crap.

Maroon,

 

I think you may feel better if you find a part of your life to improve.  It seems you have figured out that you will have a "non-r/s" r/s with your wife.

I think you are getting the hang of patterns... .hopefully you can notice things a bit earlier. 

I was struck about the mom situation... .

I'm a guy with a "difficult" mom as well.  Mine trys to play really nice... .put a nice face on it... .but she is high maintenance.  So... .I've got to a place where I spend the time I can stand around her... .(we live in same small town)... .and I don't worry about the rest. 

One thing that did me a lot of good (before I even knew what boundaries were... .years ago)... .is I stopped accepting advice from my mom. 


I still ask and accept advice from my Dad... .it is rare he brings something up without me asking.

So... .I've got a lot of kids... .so there are lots of things for grandparents to think about and give advice on.  My tagline was "I appreciate your input... .I'll consider it as I make a decision... ."   Maybe not the best thing... .but I was consistent... .and I think she figured it out... .because I can't remember the last time I got any advice from my mom.

Here is the thing... .I would recommend that your response not be about the "issue"... .but about unsolicited advice in general.

Any thoughts on how you could word that? 

Reasons why I bring this up:  Formflier's law of energy... .  You only have so much... .your primary r/s is consuming a lot of it... .and that r/s is important to you.  So... ."reserve" a bunch of energy for your primary r/s.

So... .that means you are going to have to "take" that energy from your r/s with your mom... .and give it to another place in your life.

I would be a big fan of giving it back to you... .I'm a bit concerned about putting more energy into your primary r/s... .that it would look like chasing.

FF

I don't give myself enough time, energy or self-love.  I struggle at times.  I struggle in times like this because I question is this worth it.  I love my wife and feel her and my kids are, but it's hard.

[formflier]

I don't give myself enough time, energy or self-love.  I struggle at times.  I struggle in times like this because I question is this worth it.  I love my wife and feel her and my kids are, but it's hard.

 

This is a struggle I can have as well... .

Only advice I can give you... .is there is something that works along these lines.  "If you aren't loving and respecting yourself... .somehow... .others pick up on that... .and won't love you either... ."

Or.

Others will follow your lead on how to treat you.


I'm assuming that your mom's input and advice is unsolicited... .correct?

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

I don't give myself enough time, energy or self-love.  I struggle at times.  I struggle in times like this because I question is this worth it.  I love my wife and feel her and my kids are, but it's hard.

 

This is a struggle I can have as well... .

Only advice I can give you... .is there is something that works along these lines.  "If you aren't loving and respecting yourself... .somehow... .others pick up on that... .and won't love you either... ."

Or.

Others will follow your lead on how to treat you.

Good point... .

I'm assuming that your mom's input and advice is unsolicited... .correct?

FF

I don't ask her for her input, I was just telling her what was going on.  She would "freely" give it... .

     So, a few minutes ago, my wife calls me here at work and starts in on me.  Because of our tax liability, the IRS is changing our withholding.  They changed mine a few weeks ago and I told them what was going on with us.  She didn't get notified and they changed hers and she is getting 600 dollars less a paycheck.  She asked me if I gave them her new address and told her yes.  She asked me, "Why are you negotiating with the IRS on my behalf?"  I told her I wasn't and that I was doing it on my behalf.  I told her I was at work and would call her back. 

     I can tell she is pissed.  OH FREAKING WELL!  I'm going to tell her that she wanted our bills split and therefore I'm not responsible for her.  Now, if she goes through with the divorce, she will also be hit for $600 dollars in medical a paycheck plus expenses up to $4500 for deductible for her family.  It's amazing that she made all these decisions for 10 months and tried to cut me out,and she is having to live with them.  Yet she is trying to blame me... .I won't let her.  She will just use this to try and further paint me black.

[Grey Kitty]

I'll be glad to sit down with you and get that done."  I said it very calmly, honestly and without any tone.  I guess that wasn't good enough for her because she walked off without saying another word.  I don't understand why she feels the need to try and start something after softball.  I didn't bite on her crap.

Not good enough? I don't that as the issue here... .

It seems to me that she is looking for an excuse to blame you, paint you black, push you away, and throw the divorce in your face.

You aren't giving her an easy opening to really launch into you. (Good for you!)

You aren't giving her an answer which is 'good enough' to convince her that her feelings/needs are messed up, and she should reconcile with you because you are a wonderful person, and she's ready to stop screwing up a good thing she had with you. (And it isn't possible for you to say anything which will do this!)

[Grey Kitty]

Whups, didn't see the stuff 'bout the IRS. Don't see anything for you to do, except prepare to end conversations which become abusive... .and stop trying to reach out on any personal level 'till this current triggering financial problem for her settles down.

It seems that money is very triggering for her.

  Hang in there, and don't let her take you for too much of a ride.

[formflier]

   

Hang in there!

[OffRoad]

Yes, she knew as we talked about it earlier yesterday and told her I was bringing it by after work.

Tonight at softball, everything was fine.  My wife bought me some dinner that I ate right before the game.  After the game, as I was walking back to my car and my wife was telling me that my 6YO son got the first unassisted double play ever in his division tonight while I was warming the girls up for their game.  We were done talking and my wife started to walk to her car in another parking lot and my car was really close.  I was putting my stuff in the car and she walked up to me and I said, ":)o you need a ride to your car?"  She said, "No, but we need to sit down and talk about some things and get them resolved.  You didn't call me back after lunch."  I responded with, "Yeah, sorry about that.  I was really busy at work trying to get some projects done.  I'll be glad to sit down with you and get that done."  I said it very calmly, honestly and without any tone.  I guess that wasn't good enough for her because she walked off without saying another word.  I don't understand why she feels the need to try and start something after softball.  I didn't bite on her crap.

She was angry because you didn't call her back, and she was anxious about the money, so she had to try to start something. Good for you for not biting, but it wasn't very considerate not to call her back. (This is a sticking point in ANY marriage) Go ahead and keep agreeing to getting things "resolved", but leave it to her to actually set it up and get it done. Since you don't care about it, you don't have to worry about the logistics of anything.

[MaroonLiquid]

Offroad... .I agree she was probably upset that I didn't call her back.  I couldn't help it.  How many times has she not called me when she said she would.

I just got off the phone with my wife trying to discuss the tax situation and a 401k loan she took out a couple of years ago for a business we got involved in.  She started yelling at me and I told her, "Wife, I won't be yelled at.  If you yell at me I will hang up."  She mocked me and cussed at me so I hung up.  She called back and I calmly answered and said, "I will gladly discuss this with you if you are calm."  She said, "I'm trying to discuss this and work this out."  I said, "OK, and that is my goal too."  I told her we agreed together to split the tax debt 50-50.  She said with a tone, "We didn't agree to anything!"  I said, "We sat in your office at your house and we came to that agreement."  She said, "No, we talked about it."  I responded with, "I took that as we came to an agreement on that."  We started to talk about the 401k loan and she was accusing me of sticking her with the whole thing.  I told her, "Wife, we were paid back for that business when we sold it, therefore, I don't feel I owe anything."  She said, "We spent it."  I said, "Yes we did, but that doesn't change the fact we were paid back for it."  She started to dysregulate and threatening to stick me with the whole tax debt.  I calmly responded with, "Wife, I won't stay on the phone with you if you are going to threaten me.  You and I both know that we are equally responsible for the tax debt and you admitted to an error on your part the first year or two.  I won't stay on the phone if you continue to threaten me"  She hung up on me.  I stood strong.  I was proud of myself.  Afterwards, she tried to say I wasn't a man of character and use the Bible against me on text.  I didn't respond.  She then had our daughter (or my wife from her phone which is more likely) text and say she wasn't feeling good and wouldn't be at practice tonight.  Funny how when you use truth and facts against them they get pissed and fold.  I didn't back down one bit and more importantly I stayed calm, firm and loving in the conversation!  I responded to my daughter and said, "Sorry to hear that.  See you in the morning.  Love you and feel better.

[formflier]

 

Dealing with factual business decisions... .where facts outweigh feelings... .seems to be tough/impossible for pwBPD.

Similar things are happening in my r/s... .I've made peace with it... .and I'm extricating myself from business relationships with my wife and her foo. 

I'm glad you stayed calm... .

Oh yeah... .the discussion versus agreement bites me all the time.  Unless it can go in writing... .not much can be done about it.

Hang tough... .FF

[OffRoad]

 She then had our daughter (or my wife from her phone which is more likely) text and say she wasn't feeling good and wouldn't be at practice tonight.  Funny how when you use truth and facts against them they get pissed and fold.  I didn't back down one bit and more importantly I stayed calm, firm and loving in the conversation!  I responded to my daughter and said, "Sorry to hear that.  See you in the morning.  Love you and feel better.

Your poor daughter. Have you thought to actually CALL your daughter and hear from her own lips that she isn't feeling well or going to practice?  Make sure she really doesn't feel like going or want to go and isn't sitting there wondering why she isn't going to practice. Yes, I am paranoid when it comes to kids.

[MaroonLiquid]

She will not answer the phone.  I've been through this many times.  This is my wife's MO.  She never did this to their bio-father.  She has done it to me though who is actually there for them.  It's sad.  My wife thinks she is hurting me when she is actually hurting our daughter who needs the reps and is hurting our team.  We have a tournament in the morning.