What to do with my newly estranged partner

[Mr. Kelly]

Hi all,

I just discovered this forum, and hope to put it to some good use… :-)

I am a 59-year-old male who has been dating my 58-year-old lady partner for a little more than a year and a half. It’s been a rocky year and a half.

I suspect, but cannot confirm, that she has pretty strong BPD.  I measure moderate on informal online tests… and I am in therapy trying to figure it all out.  She has never been in therapy, or been diagnosed with mental illness, and is resistant.  She knows she is affected by trauma, but seems to deny it having any major effect on her.

So...

My partner has broken up with me at least 10 times since I have known her, with the longest being three weeks, the typical being 3 to 5 days. Usually, she will write me a nasty message at the end of that time, declaring that she is done with me, it’s all my fault, I’m still hung up on my ex-wife, I haven’t invited her to live with me yet, etc. etc. You get the gist.  Then, I am blocked on pretty much everything, and she puts terrible Memes on Facebook that are clearly directed at me.

It has usually only taken me a phone call, at the end of the cycles, which she picks up quickly, and we start talking and things start to smoothening out. I’m not so convinced this time, but it’s almost the same trajectory.

This time around, we probably had our longest time without a split, which has been three months, and it seems like we have made some significant progress during that time. It hasn’t been without its problems, but we’ve been able to work things out that might’ve caused a split previously. I thought that was really good, and my trust was starting to return.

The start of the end: a week ago, I challenged her on contentious matters, while at a dinner table in front of her friends, and then when we got home, it look liked she was going to split, and I got fed up and started to challenge her again. I felt that’s where it was headed, and she started to say nasty things, so I pushed…  She packed up the things she had here at the house and left.

A day and a half later, I texted her to check in, and she was hostile and mean, and said to me the same kinds of things that she always does under such circumstances… It’s all my fault, she doesn’t think it’s good for her, and we are just too oil and water for her. She hasn’t made a clear declaration that it is over, but her language implies that. She has done that before, and we’ve worked it out, but there was one time that she out right said that she never wanted to see me again and never contact her. I did, and we were able to figure stuff out.

It is true that we are very different in many ways, but we also have so many great things in common, and we both have our beautiful parts that often work really well together, when we are firing on all cylinders.  At the risk of being a little strong headed, I think her and I were probably the best relationship in many ways that she has ever had. I think she comes from history of bad relationships and trauma, particularly with her last marriage, which only ended six months before I met her.  That marriage was riddled with family abuse.

I went no contact from those texts on Sunday until this morning, Thursday… At which point I gave her a call to check in. No response, so I left a text telling her I hope she is OK and then I tried to call. I don’t know her work schedule, so I have no idea where she is.  It could be incidental, but I am not expecting her to call me back. Maybe she’ll send me another nasty letter when she’s decided that she can’t keep up anymore.

So… I guess the point of my writing is to ask advice, like where to go from here… Do I simply walk away, and leave her completely be, and if she ever changes her mind, she will reach out? Should I give her another week, and try calling again?

I kind of know what I need to do if I get another shot. I just can’t Seem to be consistent. I have to be able to resist her hostility, and let her be who she is, and value her for her beautiful parts… Because of my own struggles, I have to have a hard time doing that. I fight back and I challenge.   When she is aggressive with me, I try to defend myself, because my own insecurities and trauma start to be triggered. Some have said we are just not the right match because of this… I’ve never wanted to believe that. We have a beautiful friendship. It’s almost hard to imagine that she is willing to just throw all of this away.

I know that she is in distress right now, but I don’t know what to do about that, if anything.

Thoughts? I’d really appreciate any help you can offer…

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Our partners have an uncanny ability to find our weaknesses and our triggers. We have to be the emotional leaders in the relationship; people with BPD (pwBPD) are not able to do this.

Here’s an article that might be helpful:  https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

[Mr. Kelly]

Thank you,

These are all good.

However, what can I now do about the fact that she has left and not responding?  She’s never not responded in some way before.

[Cat Familiar]

You cannot make her do anything at this point. Why not take the opportunity to dive into this site and do some intensive study on BPD. The things you can learn in our Community Built Knowledge Base will help you in all your relationships. And should she not return, you will be more aware of women with personality disorders in the future and be able to make informed choices about who you enter into romantic relationships with.

[Mr. Kelly]

Thank you…

I know I can’t make her do anything, at this point, but if I was going to be proactive, what would be my best move going forward? Silence? That has been recommended by many well-versed BPD partners.

I am tempted to give it another week and reach out again. Pros/cons?

She has said many times in the past that she feels that she is pretty traditional in her values, and expects the man to do the chasing. Given that I think she feels I insulted her, and disrespected her, which is highly debatable, she may be waiting for me to fight for her, and playing games with me in a passive aggressive way. It’s hard to say. She may also simply be done. We have been down this road many times, she may just be worn out.  It’s hard to imagine that since we were in what seemed like such a good place just a week or so ago.

I was letting my guard down quite a bit, since she was showing signs of stability, and I was starting to trust her, and the relationship, in a way that I hadn’t before, and I think my ease of being around her was starting to become apparent.

My heart is, once again, broken.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Mr. Kelly:

The start of the end: a week ago, I challenged her on contentious matters, while at a dinner table in front of her friends, and then when we got home, it look liked she was going to split, and I got fed up and started to challenge her again. I felt that’s where it was headed, and she started to say nasty things, so I pushed…  She packed up the things she had here at the house and left.     

Why are you challenging her on contentious matters?  An important lesson is "don't JADE" = Don't justify, argue, defend, explain.  She isn't someone with whom you can have a debate with, and discuss a difference of opinion.

Without you sharing more about the conversation, I will have to assume some things.  She likely felt invalidated in front of her friends, and that is something that didn't sit well with her.  Go to the "Tools Menu" within the large green band, towards the top of the page and read the article on "Don't Invalidate".  Validation here relates to "feelings".  You don't want to agree with principles that you don't agree with or lies.  It's more important to NOT invalidate feelings, rather than validate.  Invalidation can occur by word, expression or body language.

Usually, she will write me a nasty message at the end of that time, declaring that she is done with me, it’s all my fault, I’m still hung up on my ex-wife, I haven’t invited her to live with me yet, etc. etc.   

She has shown you who she is - believe what you see.  Expect the same pattern of behaviors to continue.

If you were to invite her to move into your home, things will likely get worse.  At her age, she is unlikely to change. So, if you just want a friendship, and cater to her and only talk about safe things, then you might decide to contact her after giving it some time.  Think long & hard about whether she is someone you want to move in with you.  Would she be a nurturing person for you in a time of need, or would you just be a caretaker.

[Mr. Kelly]

Thank you, those are all suggestions that are good ones, and I’ve been trying really hard to do that, which is why we had a three month period, as of late, that went relatively well.

It’s clear. I varied from the game plan. I let my emotions get in the way, and I let her anger get under my skin. I wasn’t able to tolerate her nastiness, and I challenged her on her political rhetoric, in front of her friends, only once, and only for about 10 seconds, and I also challenged her at home later When she was saying stuff that just didn’t makes sense. It was hurtful to me, and at that moment, I wanted to stand up for myself. That was a mistake. I should have been much more empathetic and tried to hear more closely what would eventually come out of that conversation, which was that she felt left out of a particular major household decision that I made.

Sadly, that rolled into, “you didn’t invest into me or this relationship, therefore you clearly aren’t interested in me“.  I tried everything I could to explain away why I made the decision, but she couldn’t hear it.  All she heard was a con job and excuses.  I thought I was conveying my thoughts very clearly, positively, and convincingly.  Apparently not.

So, for the people reading, what do you think the likelihood is that I will hear from this girl again? We were virtually inseparable for most of the last year and a half. Suddenly, she’s gone.  That’s happened probably 8 to 10 times before, though. She’s never not responded to any correspondence, though. Even if it was a nasty response.

Maybe this is her way of punishing me, maybe this is her way of eradicating what she believes is not good for her out of her life. I couldn’t say, because she won’t talk, and even if she did, she couldn’t explain herself clearly, and would probably resort to insults and accusations.

There was a time, about a year ago, that I was hopeful that she would be able to move in, but it’s been so unstable since then, and I even said that to her last summer, when I said… Let’s just take it day by day, and take moving in off the table… And just see how it goes for a little while and enjoy life. We haven’t really talked much about moving in since, but clearly, partnership was a big part of her agenda, and the fact that I made a choice that didn’t involve her, that involve the household, got under her skin, even though that decision was made back in November, and the results have been very positive since. 

Suddenly, after four months, it all comes out that she really is pissed about the new household arrangement, particularly when it involves striking a deal with my ex-wife… To buy a puppy for my 13-year-old daughter, who lives here pretty much by herself.  I have been holding out for months, because I knew I couldn’t afford it, and I wasn’t ready, so my former spouse said that we would get her the puppy, which had to be decided upon right there in men, and my ex spouse will take care of the financial burdens that would come up in the future.  That’s the only way I could pull off getting this puppy for my daughter, and the puppy was magnificent… It was a no-brainer, so I pulled the trigger.  My pwBPD said that she thought it was inappropriate that I made that deal with my former spouse, particularly when I am re-partnered. Nobody else I know buys that, though. Do you?

[Mr. Kelly]

I forgot to mention… When this lady is stable, she can be a kind, affectionate, and thoughtful person. It only seems to be when she splits, or has some sort of episode, that all of this emerges.  I’m sure everyone on here experiences this.

I guess it is just very anxiety provoking to think about whether or not I will ever see this girl again. Are the numbers on my side that she will reach back out in some capacity?

I fear that by calling her today, and sending her a text, it will make her think that she’s got me here if she wants me and she can take her sweet time and make me suffer a little.

[Naughty Nibbler]

We haven’t really talked much about moving in since, but clearly, partnership was a big part of her agenda, and the fact that I made a choice that didn’t involve her, that involve the household, got under her skin, even though that decision was made back in November, and the results have been very positive since. 

Suddenly, after four months, it all comes out that she really is pissed about the new household arrangement, particularly when it involves striking a deal with my ex-wife… To buy a puppy for my 13-year-old daughter, who lives here pretty much by herself.  I have been holding out for months, because I knew I couldn’t afford it, and I wasn’t ready, so my former spouse said that we would get her the puppy, which had to be decided upon right there in men, and my ex spouse will take care of the financial burdens that would come up in the future.  That’s the only way I could pull off getting this puppy for my daughter, and the puppy was magnificent… It was a no-brainer, so I pulled the trigger.  My pwBPD said that she thought it was inappropriate that I made that deal with my former spouse, particularly when I am re-partnered. Nobody else I know buys that, though. Do you?

I would think that your 13-year-old child should be your priority.  A mentally stable person would understand that when they date a divorced man, with a child, that this man has to have some level of a relationship with the ex.  (unless there is a harmful and hostile environment).

Red flags are flying.  She is exhibiting jealous and controlling behaviors. The story is always the same, the PWBPD behaviors is the most wonderful person in the world, when the aren't: beating me, controlling me, keeping me from my friends and family, verbally abusive, etc.

Why would you even think about inviting a mentally unstable person to live with you, when you have your daughter there? Does your daughter split time between your house and her mom's?

There isn't a way to predict frequency of behaviors, but if someone is not getting any type of treatment for their mental conditions (meds and counseling), then the pattern will keep repeating.

[Cat Familiar]

These relationships with BPD partners can be like an addiction, due to intermittent reinforcement. (Think slot machine players who keep losing, but continue playing, because every once in a while they get a payout.)

People with BPD are highly emotionally driven, so good feelings are ecstatic and bad feelings are traumatic. This often applies to their sexuality and that’s why so many people who are just dating are reluctant to give up on the relationship. Could this be you?

[Breakingpoint13]

I think the one thing we all worry about is the: will they contact me again, how can I be do disposable, which then makes us question our own self worth.

There is something so important that you need to remember here.

You are not disposable, you are worthy of is respect, empathy and understanding that you give to others. Yes we can’t suddenly turn off our feelings, we hang on to the good parts the parts we fantasise about. However, these more often than not aren’t enough. So what if she doesn’t contact you again? I have this argument in my head all the time. Shall I message him, is he moving on? But then I think If he was to message. What would it achieve? They are hurting, they are broken, and more often that not they aren’t equipped with the tools to deal with the tools to deal with this, or even want to deal with it. You can’t change anyone, neither can you want anyone to change, people can only ever change when they want to themselves. Like you said your partner has never been given a diagnosis and she’s at the age where she probably doesn’t want to change. That is not your responsibility, you have your own life, your daughters and your own mental health to focus on. I truly believe what will be will be but in the mean time, wondering if it is or it isn’t over will get you no where. Try and remind yourself just what you are worthy of, you can not let them question your own sanity, trust me. I did, to the point I went for an assessment myself, and if it was awful. I only wish I had been stronger previous so that I never let myself become so broken with my self worth.

It will get easier, it sounds like you have a lot of friends around you. Spend time with these people and your daughter. She most probably will get in touch, but even if she did... what would you even want the outcome to be..

[Kyanna]

I think the one thing we all worry about is the: will they contact me again, how can I be do disposable, which then makes us question our own self worth.

There is something so important that you need to remember here.

You are not disposable, you are worthy of is respect, empathy and understanding that you give to others. Yes we can’t suddenly turn off our feelings, we hang on to the good parts the parts we fantasise about. However, these more often than not aren’t enough. So what if she doesn’t contact you again? I have this argument in my head all the time. Shall I message him, is he moving on? But then I think If he was to message. What would it achieve? They are hurting, they are broken, and more often that not they aren’t equipped with the tools to deal with the tools to deal with this, or even want to deal with it. You can’t change anyone, neither can you want anyone to change, people can only ever change when they want to themselves. Like you said your partner has never been given a diagnosis and she’s at the age where she probably doesn’t want to change. That is not your responsibility, you have your own life, your daughters and your own mental health to focus on. I truly believe what will be will be but in the mean time, wondering if it is or it isn’t over will get you no where. Try and remind yourself just what you are worthy of, you can not let them question your own sanity, trust me. I did, to the point I went for an assessment myself, and if it was awful. I only wish I had been stronger previous so that I never let myself become so broken with my self worth.

It will get easier, it sounds like you have a lot of friends around you. Spend time with these people and your daughter. She most probably will get in touch, but even if she did... what would you even want the outcome to be..

What a great response for Mr. Kelly. It’s a reminder to anyone who is struggling in their relationship.

I agree with all you said. It’s just so hard when your brain and heart are fighting against each other.

Mr. Kelly, did she ever respond to your most recent attempt to communicate? 

[Mr. Kelly]

Hi all… Here’s an update… Sorry I’ve been out of touch for a while.

So… About a week after I last posted on here, we started talking on the phone. She seemed somewhat responsive, but a bit on the passive side.

I invited her out for a walk, and the next day we went… And pretty quickly, she went into the “I don’t think I can do this anymore because you’re still hung up on your ex-wife“.  she gave me example after example of things that really weren’t true, and didn’t make any sense, regarding my ex-wife, and how I haven’t moved on, and that’s why she can’t be with me anymore.

As a response, I simply told her my thoughts on the matter, told her I loved her, and told her that it was up to her what she wanted to do based on what she was hearing and thinking.

Slowly, over the next week, she began to reach out to me, and we saw each other twice, once for dinner my daughter, which went really well, even according to her, and then once we went out shopping for Easter and then for breakfast.

Breakfast was a bit odd that day, when I told her that I was doing some construction on my house, she seemed to get rather odd, and try to tell me her opinion on why I shouldn’t do the construction, and why she thinks I shouldn’t. Clearly, she was trying to gain traction to reverse the flow of control, which I think was clearly seeming like it was in my corner. 

After that day, she didn’t seem that interested in connecting for a few days… And then we had another nice few telephone conversations which seemed to make things be moving in a good direction…

Then, a couple of days ago, she texted me and told me that she was going to call me later after she was going to do some errands, but she never called. I waited, thinking she would call me in the evening before she went to sleep, like she almost always did… No call. Then, I thought she’d probably call me in the morning and apologize for not calling like she said she would, but I haven’t heard from her since.  She has strangely disappeared.

Couldn’t even begin to tell you why she suddenly disappeared again, and I’m struggling to decide whether to reach out and say hi, or let it go until and if she is ready to reach back out to me someday.

If I understand borderlines correctly, letting them stew and going no contact can be destructive to them… But I’m kind of thinking about me now and how much of this I can tolerate.

I certainly haven’t deserved this kind of treatment, and maybe it’s really nothing and I making a big deal out of very little. After all, we hadn’t really been seeing much of each other over the last few weeks, only twice, really, and it’s been very guarded with no real connection or intimacy. We were all about that when things were going well.

And at the risk of being obnoxious, I’m almost wondering if she may be bipolar.  Her splits seem to happen fairly routinely, after about 3 to 5 weeks of us being in a good spot, and I’m looking at the calendar seeing that our break ups almost seem to lineup this year at the same times as they were last year.

Thoughts?

[Mr. Kelly]

Another update… I eventually got the courage to call her this afternoon, after 48 hours of silence… She didn’t pick up, but a couple of hours later she asked me if she could call me, but I was working, and told her I’d be available later.

Her texts seemed very detached, and I’m pretty convinced she’s going to tell me she wants to break up. She’ll come up with all of these silly excuses that make no sense…

What should I do in the event of this kind of call?

I’m going to be a neurotic mess for the rest of the day, I suspect.

[EZEarache]

You seem like a nice guy. We are fodder for borderlines. Reading your description regarding her opinion that you are not over your ex-wife, could be projecting on her part. She may really be trying to say, "I'm not over my past relationship."

We both have tough choices to decide if we can really withstand the constant criticism. It causes a lot of self-doubt and impacts your self-esteem. 

I can't tell you how to handle a conversation, really. If she says she wants to break it off, I would let her go and not try to convince her otherwise. If she wants you to hold onto you, and you feel the same way, then grab on and hold her tight.

From my own early dating, I somewhat regret not leaving sooner. Just remember that moving in together complicates the breakup 100 fold. So if that is root cause of your conflict, definitely don't rush into anything.

[Mr. Kelly]

Update to my update:

What a surprise. For a second time, she said she would call later, and she did not.

She has a fairly typical routine… And on a Friday night, she would spend several hours at a pub with her friends having dinner and a few wines.

It’s my guess that she got home a little tipsy, and didn’t feel like talking.

I think she is just in place in her own head where she doesn’t want to deal with her own drama, and thinking about me or talking to me brings up pain. It’s hard to imagine why, since I’ve done very little to upset her balance, particularly in the last three weeks.

As it was mentioned earlier, I was a complete mess for a handful of hours yesterday, I could barely function. I had this sense that I knew she was going to call me and break up. Thankfully, after a stiff cup of coffee, which is usually a fairly good antidepressant, and some breathing exercises, I was able to take hold of the things I should be thankful for, and that helped to turn some clouds into sunshine.  I felt a lot better for the rest of the day, and realize that there’s a possibility I was reading way more into her texts then was meant.

That being said, her lack of calling yesterday could have been a sign that she was going to break up, but she then didn’t have the will or courage to do it last night. That is crystal ball thinking, though, and doesn’t really do any good.

So, what would you do… Sent her a simple text saying “hi” today, or give her a couple of days to reach out? I’m not confident she will, and I would be a bit concerned that me not checking in could make her feel unwanted?

[Cat Familiar]

Do you get a sense you might be chasing after a woman who is ambivalent about being with you?

[Mr. Kelly]

Thank you Cat. Your input means more to me than you may know.

I don’t think she has been historically ambivalent about being with me. She is typically all in, when things are going well.  That’s when we go places, do the things we like together, and I see her really thriving. Not so much now.

We had three months, December through March, that were comparatively stable and really nice. She even said so.  It wasn’t until I “challenged“ her politics in  front of her friends, with one comment, and then kind of pushed her out the door and drove her home later when she was being a snot. That was pretty much it. The rest has been touch and go since then. Mostly go.

But further to your point, I think she has been likely just waiting for the cracks to appear, so she can say “A ha… Gotcha…“. I think she has been waiting for the bad stuff to happen, and when there’s even the slightest evidence of it, she gets freaked out and bails.

So is she ambivalent? Right now, clearly. I think it is likely because she has lost hope that her and I can ever work.  I think she thinks we are too different, and she hurts too much when problems start to surface, and she would likely say that problems are inevitable.

I also think she is going down a political rabbit hole which may be detrimental to her own mental health. It almost seems like she has been so fixated on bad things that have happened in the USA over the last few months, and I think she sees me as a symbolic reference of all of those bad things, since I believe in the exact political opposite philosophies than she does.  She has almost a paranoia and constantly gets freaked out with the following thoughts…  The government sucks. We’re going to become a communist state. The leaders are all assholes. You get the idea.  It seems almost as if she is driven by a cult, of sorts.  I suspect that is not hugely unusual for BPDs... allegedly, I suspect it is hard for them to feel a sense of self, so I bet they often cling to outside sources for energy and a sense of self, thus the onset of cults and movements. 

Ironically, she used to always say that she would never let politics break up a relationship. I’m not entirely convinced that she didn’t do just that.

[Cat Familiar]

Knowing that her political beliefs are diametrically opposite yours, how do you imagine you could have navigated a more intimate relationship?

[Breakingpoint13]

Mr Kelly,

Sorry I have been away for a while.

Please just re read your post, you are trying to validate every crappy thing she does to you. We all do, it’s simply because we don’t want to accept that we are worthless to someone who clearly isn’t great. It’s a massive blow to your self esteem. It’s understandable.

But instead of trying to mind read her, you need to start focusing on you and thinking why do you feel like you deserve this treatment. They tell us they don’t want to be with us, so regardless if they mean it or not. You’re only holding on to a belief of what you want to here. Trust me I’m in the same place, after months of my ex partner begging for me back, as soon as I open up, he doesn’t want me, doesn’t think it can work, blames me for being toxic and accuses me of BPD and this is someone who apparently in therapy.

So why would I want to beg for someone that says they don’t want me?

Yes you love them but really do you deserve this treatment? What you need to remember is that this is not just you! This will happen with every single relationship moving forward because they have not been brought up with the tools to deal with emotions and people correctly.

You have to try in your whole being not to respond, block of you must, you don’t owe them any answers they have said what they have wanted to regardless off how you would feel/

If they want you; If she wants to speak to you she will call.

Focus on you, you deserve so much better. We all do!

Has she been in contact since? I reckon so? Are you happy? I reckon not! I know it’s hard, that’s why this group is here. But we’re here to get through this together