Well - at least you’re having sex.   After reading your post I’m now thankful that I’m not.

Hi SD-
 
I realize that my phrasing it as extreme emotionalism was definitely the wrong thing to do. It was taken as an attack - even though I told her I wasn’t saying it to attack her.  I listened to a pretty good podcast by Dr. Phil on BPD and he recommended taking a different approach that I am going to try.  He said that you should say something like - “I see that you are really depressed (anxious, hurt, etc). I think you owe it to yourself to get into therapy. You don’t deserve to live like this and getting into therapy might help you.”  I liked that and we’ll see how that goes.

We are currently in couples therapy but all we are really working on is communication (which I admit I need to help on). It’s been very helpful to me but weather or not my counselor has picked up on my wife’s BPD yet I don’t know. 

I’m really more focused on her getting individual therapy at this point.  I have a counselor I’ve been seeing for about a year but in all honesty I don’t think she understands BPD and often tells me that since she doesn’t have an official diagnosis I shouldn’t assume she has it.  She sounds much like your counselor.  Well - she meets all the 9 characteristics and I truly believe she has it. I’ve sometimes tried to talk myself out of believing it - and then another episode happens and I’m like - she’d definitely got it.

My ex was diagnosed with cPTSD as well, she told me. She said it was from years of being in an abusive relationship with her exh. As I've written here before, early on in our relationship she had a very important thing she needed to tell me, we had to go to a quiet place to talk about it. There she outlined for me that her marriage was abusive and she needed to sneak out of the relationship, quietly making her plans and getting an apartment, acting like things were normal. Then one day she just got her stuff together and left, taking the young song along and then sending an email to her husband that she was filing for divorce.

I don't know how much of this about the abuse was true. During our 2-year relationship she often forwarded to me his texts and emails to her, wanting me to validate that he was a terrible person. Firstly, they were just regular text communication, no Our Family Wizard required, which surprised me since I thought that when there was obvious and dangerous abuse-like she described- the court would require OFW. Secondly, these communications were not abusive in any way, and didn't seem like those from an abusive person- no cursing, no real anger, no put downs, no name calling. Just matter of fact, and some frustration...which I understood.

Finally, after our breakup, word got around to me that her sister had told a client of mine (strangely enough, this client was a good  friend of my ex's sister since childhood) that "she was worried about me" being in a relationship with her sister because my ex "is not a good person/is a bad person". I got along great with my ex's sister, I really liked her and she really liked me. It was a shock to me that my ex's SISTER would tell a client of mine, who I knew well and was friends with, that.

Perhaps on a related note, my ex told me that her ex boyfriend committed suicide "after a fight" with her, and left a note saying it was her fault. She says that also was traumatizing to her, as I imagine it would be. But, I do know what she calls 'fights', and they are not a typical fight. It starts with her accusing of doing something 'bad', telling me what my intentions were, then comes the JADE from me, and then the circular argument begins as she gets very angry and around and around we go. Once during an argument that started in that way I told her "honey, you seem to need to win when we have a disagreement, and I want you to know that is not my goal. I just want to feel heard, you don't have to agree. I have no need to win". I also note that if I were to ask her the most simple question about something she said she'd do but didn't, or something confusing to me about her behavior, or even just ask her to stay on the phone and chat a little bit when we weren't arguing, she would call that starting a fight.....or just say "what...you trying to start a fight?" in a very angry tone. Or talking about a certain weekend that she made a commitment to me to do something, then didn't, and so I ask her about it and she gets really angry....months later when discussing it becomes "oh yeah, that weekend you started a fight".

Which leads me to believe that my ex's behavior- highly controlling, angry, yelling, name-calling, put downs, mocking, mimicking my voice with sarcasm and contempt like a child, dishonesty and evasion, ghosting- predated me, and predated her marriage with her ex.

I know from all my reading and video watching that cPTSD is not easily differentiated from BPD. They share angry outbursts and abusive behavior. I also know that some therapists and psychiatrists will avoid using the BPD diagnosis since it's so stigmatized.

Hi divine,

I suggest this, if it is a possibility:
Lease a decent basic apartment (nothing fancy if she gets better and begins working, she can upgrade herself) for her and pack her things and move her with at least her bedroom furniture (you could get some other inexpensive furniture for her from a rental company).
Don’t ask if a place is acceptable to her (because it probably would not be), make it clear that until she is able to support herself that you will cover rent, utilities, her furniture, and YOU will go purchase her some groceries to bring to her (she can give you list, but you decide what to buy).
I suggest picking up dirty clothes to wash when you take her groceries ONCE A WEEK at most.

That is ALL you should do, you have to take things one step at a time and the first one is to get this young adult in her own place.

I believe that you could legally do something like that, of course the apt. would be in your name until she turns 21 (due to your current state restrictions; in Texas children actually have adult rights at 17, but the public only knows 18, hopefully by then she’ll begin working and can upgrade herself.

You really NEED to try and stop letting her walk all over you, just help and support her until tapering off as she gets better.

At least my daughter was high-functioning; which I feel may have had a lot to do with the fact that when she was growing up, I NEVER gave in to her emotions. With her ‘shy’ behavior I never even thought of mental illness (this was not something I was ever exposed to), so I just showered her with love and we were very close. Once she turned 15 and my husband had died when she was 11, I began to see some rebellion. In the car (not at home) she would argue and raise her voice to me over every little thing, but she only did this when one of her friends was with us!

I paid for her college, and she did quite well, so I let her live in her own apt. that I paid for. After she graduated she began living with her fiancé who had a large inheritance but still worked. She blocked me from her phone after beginning work which I just figured was for her to become her own independent person since we were so close and she was an only child.
I thought she was ok and I still did not realize her mental state, so  I moved overseas for my work.

Well, now I have found out the decline of her mentality since then, and that she felt abandoned. So after I returned from overseas she cut off all communication with me for many years, and to be honest, I really don’t know when or if she will re-connect with me. I am grieving again since I found out about her mental state, but I am so thankful that she is self-sustaining. I had a plan to do long-term overseas missions, and will probably leave early next year. Just as she would expect when she was in her right mind. But if I had not helped her to be rely on herself, I couldn’t go and would be stuck taking care of her.

I don’t know what you believe, but I believe that God created the earth and man, and that we are blessed with children to raise, but in reality they are His children, and there comes a time when we must pray and trust that He will take care of them. He does expect us to have a life of our own.

Letting go is difficult, but you are important too!

So, you can handle this, and since you will still be caring for her, she shouldn’t feel abandoned, and hopefully you can take back part of your own life and retain a healthy mentality yourself.

I wish you the best, OurWorld

Hi, I am having a long distance relationship with a girl diagnosed with bpd, she used to go to theraphy but stopped. It was all good in the beggining , getting idolized, being together from morning to night, but we started having fights because I am a vulcanic person, and at some point she started splitting on me after 3 months into the relationship. Ghosting or less talk would happen before for some hours or a day/ or 2 , but the splitting episode she had was 3 weeks long, in which i got a message from her sometimes in 2 or  3 days out of 21. And I had enough, i was having my mental rly low , because I couldnt understand her behaviour, I couldve never ignore her more than some hours, and she did for that much time, i started thinking shes cheating, or she lost feelings, so i broke up with her because I started getting attention from another woman, which made me think i started to like her. She was out of the splitting episode when she realised i really am serious, and tried her best to keep me there, with promises that she will change, that she will get better, she will start taking pills and etc, but i was both blinded and mad at her so i acted rly cold towards her, said some things which hurt her. After 2-3 weeks i realised i cant replace her and I still love her, and tried to get back together at first she was rly hurt and , but after 2-3 weeks things started to get better and we started dating again. Its been 1 month since she takes the pills , and 1 month since we date, and now she is ghosting me again its the 5th day in a row and all she said was in the 4th day, im sorry i behave like this. I watched many videos to understand what bpd is and how it affects her, but sometimes it just feels like too much. She told me she feels depressed these days, but i dont really know why, because  if she takes pills it should be the other way around. Any advice which would help me understand her and maybe not trigger her into splitting on me would be rly nice. ( she said multiple times that she feels like the second choice and that makes her feel bad)

I always wondered if my ex would adapt the degree of bullying he did to how much I was willing to take. It sounds a bit like what you are working through?

Bullies seem to have limits but the danger for us as targets is not knowing what they are. I dealt with my ex husband's bullying by being prepared. It was one of those times anxiety was helpful because the vigilance is useful to run through scenarios.

You may find your husband adapts as he senses your newfound confidence. When the same happened for me, my ex stopped engaging in "environmental" abuse. He didn't hide my purse or lock me out of the house and he stopped drinking alcohol for 5 days straight (a record). Instead of standing and yelling at me he would raise his voice and then leave the house. I realized even with the improvements it wasn't tenable but it did prove to me that I could have boundaries without things escalating.

Another thing that started to happen: he would go out for long periods without telling me where or when he would be home.

It was meant to worry me but I found it was a great relief.

Hi kells76,

Thank you, this is insightful and helpful. I've been trying SET and DEARMAN (somewhat unintentionally) for our more recent conflicts and it seems to at least diffuse the situation somewhat better than simply trying to get her to see my perspective.


This has been a big roadblock for me. This friend will seem emotional but generally rational when I speak to her in person and I will think "wow, that went a lot better than I thought it would". Then, some time will pass and I will receive tens of long-winded text messages describing how upset she is and seeming to imply that I am the root of all her mental woes. However, she never is able to specify what I've done to upset her.

When I try to reinforce a boundary ("I will not tolerate being held responsible for someone else's mental wellbeing" or "I will not engage in emotionally involved discussions over text") she will claim that that is not what she was doing or assert that I am crossing her boundaries (but not state what boundary I have crossed).

While I feel like SET or DEARMAN are easy if say, she's upset that I didn't do the dishes and feels that this was because I intentionally wanted to make our living space messy, it's harder when I am unable to pinpoint what is affecting her and when she refuses to confront me in person and in the moment where she first becomes upset.

This vagueness I think sometimes leads to me feeling like I need to assume or guess her emotions in order to validate them which I think may sometimes be taken as me dismissing or not listening to what she is saying. It's a bit of a lose/lose

I haven't had the chance to tell her yet that I am moving out early but I will definitely update when I find a moment that seems "safe".

I am open to any last words of wisdom before I ride into battle. Wish me luck!

Hi Jazz,

I’m just here to say I’m happy for you. Usually once the light bulb switches on that’s all the courage you need.
You will get through this. But you must plan in secret and keep yourself safe. Once he becomes aware of your plans, I see him becoming violent.

You can do this. What I’ve learned is that once you get out of this dark vortex you have been surrounded by for decades, even the universe takes care of you.
Do you have adult children who can keep an eye on you?

heartbreaking is the best description

Komodo,

I can totally relate.  What you describe parallels perfectly with the experience with my diagnosed stepdaughter:

"It seems that no matter what we say or do, or what changes we make, she reacts with extreme anger that turns into regret, then slides into depression and helplessness. Our world seems to revolve around keeping her “stable” - and she rarely is. She is sad, isolated, and quick to lash out at those who love her."

I've written various posts on this site describing the behaviors, triggers and feelings, the projections and victimhood status, the unstable sense of identity, the blame-shifting, the re-writing of history.  But I think there is reason for hope.  At least in the case of my stepdaughter, when she hit bottom, she finally realized things needed to change, and she's in a better place right now after therapies.  I wouldn't say she has had a full relapse of symptoms, but at least she's headed in the right direction.  She still tends to blame others, and she is still ruminating about the past, but her orientation has become much more forward-looking.  And she's escaped the confines of her bedroom.

I think a major turning point was, sadly, losing all her friends because of her outbursts.  Though she typically blamed her parents for all her problems, I think she had to realize that losing all her friends couldn't be her parents' fault entirely.  And sadly, losing all her friends meant isolation and depression.  Suicide attempts were both a cry for help and a wake-up call.  It's sad and frightening that suicide attempts marked her bottom, but they got her into treatment facilities with professionals, and she started taking therapy seriously.  Continuing on with the status quo became untenable.

I also think that making new friends helped pull her out of her funk, marking the first real sign of a path towards recovery (or remission).  She still hasn't repaired all her family relationships, but she resumed talking to her dad, her greatest ally, and she's texting with her sister now, too.  She can't handle family gatherings yet, but I'm grateful for baby steps.

Another turning point was with my husband.  Like many others, he was desperate, and despondent that nothing seemed to work to help his daughter, who seemed to get more dysfunctional as years passed.  Homelife became miserable.  At one point, I said to him, I think your job right now is to ensure that your daughter gets the treatment she needs, and that she sticks with it.  If you enable the status quo by financially supporting her but letting her skip recommended therapies, then you're only prolonging the situation, which clearly isn't working.  She hasn't been capable of making healthy choices, because she's ill and she needs treatment.  That seemed to flip a switch for him--the responsibility moved away from him coming up with solutions, and towards his daughter getting therapy with professionals.  The ultimatum with his daughter was that he'd continue to support her, but only if she got treatment and followed doctors' orders.  Otherwise, she'd be on her own.  In her case, the choice became easy.  And I think it was easier for her to accept help from "the professionals" (her words) than follow recommendations from her father, even if they were essentially the same.

I wish you the best.  This isn't easy at all, and it's heartbreaking.