Do they Comeback-What you did to Inspire BPD to comeback

[clockwork]

I'll be honest I have no idea why she shutdown so quickly.  To me I believe she did not believe my feelings were true.

First of all, a breakup is rarely as sudden as it appears to be. It sounds like she thought this out and pushed away slowly over the course of months (probably while vacillating heavily) - and then more suddenly as the wedding approached. She's probably aware that your feelings are true, but are hers? I'm not getting the feeling from what you're telling us that she didn't believe that you loved her.[/quote]
MapleBob I can't disagree with you.  This is the understanding I would have liked to have received from her from a chat. 

I will add her pins after the breakup stated that she loved me.  She told recently before the b/u she loved me more than I know.  When we broke up she was emotional to the extreme.  Perhaps she was on the cusp. Her behavior changed during the last 6 weeks.  She did add a pin sometimes behavior changes due to others actions.  Well if it was my actions she should have communicated that to me.  I had no idea what I wasn't or was doing to trigger her.  She obviously did not fight for us.  This is something she blamed on her exes.  It may always be her just running away.  I really believe once there is a lul in emotion she feels abandoned and for her own security wants to have that met by some other means.  If bailing is what it takes she feels she must due that to decrease her fears and pain.

I did not ever truly yell at her except that one morning.  Perhaps she was on the cusp in her own mind and I added fears.  She most likely lost trust.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MapleBob]

MapleBob I can't disagree with you.  This is the understanding I would have liked to have received from her from a chat.

She may not understand even for herself why she does these things. My suspicion is that a chat would/will push her further into dysregulated emotion. If you have the opportunity to speak with her again, you may have to do what we like to call "grey rock". You have no needs, you are passive, and supportive/validating. But that sounds like a pretty big "if".

I will add her pins after the breakup stated that she loved me.  She told recently before the b/u she loved me more than I know.

Mine told me she loved me literally every time we spoke, for 10+ months post-breakup. She said it as she was leaving too, and I haven't spoken to her in six weeks. She may very well love you - or she may feel the emotions of love towards you - but a relationship is about doing love. Do you have any reason to believe that she will do her love for you (so to speak)?

It may always be her just running away.  I really believe once there is a lul in emotion she feels abandoned and for her own security wants to have that met by some other means.  If bailing is what it takes she feels she must due that to decrease her fears and pain.

That was certainly my ex's modus operandi as well. She even warned me about it at the beginning of our relationship. "I tend to run when it gets hard." So as soon as the honeymoon period passed and I was revealed as an actual person with my own difficulties and idiosyncrasies, she started to leave. And it took her a long time to actually do it - several months, much like your ex. I continued to engage her, and things got worse and worse.

[clockwork]

MapleBob & JQ,

This is why I wrote letters to see if I could try to reestablish trust.  My reasons for asking about my letters is did I do more damage than good.  Do I sound weak.  To emotional.  Or more matter of fact and trusting.  I'm just trying to determine if she may or may not communicate down the line.  I understand it's not probable. 

I guess I see the good in her and would like to point her in the direction of DBT therapy at some point. She has had 6 months of therapy which she said was for anxiety.  She did not like to talk about it.  At least she was open to therapy-so she say's. To ask her probably took the breakup, because I had no idea how I could ask her.  If she came back it would be easier to communicate this in time as I would be coming from more from the outside with less to lose.   I myself have no kids and probably never will.  I guess there's nothing wrong with trying to a good deed in this lifetime.  Why else are we here?

As for first communications and my letters.  I agree MapleBob I've been supporting , validating, and non-accusatory.  I just hope I did not sound weak as this typically is not my nature.  In a normal R/S I try to come in on an even playing field. 

[clockwork]

I have one last question.  A few days ago I asked if any of her recent pins were about my letters.  Th text was first communication attempt in a while.  She ended up taking her site down immediately and did not reply to text.  Would it be appropriate to send an email just saying my text was an attempt to offer her gratitude in case she was recognizing and responding to one of my letters?  Or is that just foolish?  Whether if this is done or not I do understand further communication may be futile and foolish on my end.

[MapleBob]

This is why I wrote letters to see if I could try to reestablish trust.  My reasons for asking about my letters is did I do more damage than good.  Do I sound weak.  To emotional.  Or more matter of fact and trusting.  I'm just trying to determine if she may or may not communicate down the line.  I understand it's not probable. 

I have one last question.  A few days ago I asked if any of her recent pins were about my letters.  Th text was first communication attempt in a while.  She ended up taking her site down immediately and did not reply to text.  Would it be appropriate to send an email just saying my text was an attempt to offer her gratitude in case she was recognizing and responding to one of my letters?  Or is that just foolish?  Whether if this is done or not I do understand further communication may be futile and foolish on my end.

I'm hearing that you really want a response to your letters, and that is absolutely an appropriate expectation. It's dishonoring/disrespectful of her not to respond. However, it seems to me that your goal is to re-engage her, and she is making it pretty clear that she's not ready/willing to do that. I think that initiating further communication with her is going to result in a similar response from her.

On the subject of her pins: I think it would be safe to assume that she is pinning things that are relevant to her. (She pins what she wants to pin.) It's very likely that they have something to do with you as well, but if she's trying to communicate with you via Pinterest... .I mean, she has your number. She could be a lot more direct - and should, and would be more direct with you! - if she wanted to make sure you got the message. She certainly got your text, and her response was to take down her pinterest. Sadly, I'd say that's the opposite of wanting to communicate with you.

I guess I see the good in her and would like to point her in the direction of DBT therapy at some point. She has had 6 months of therapy which she said was for anxiety.  She did not like to talk about it.

It very very rarely goes well when a non tries to get a cluster-B into therapy. No matter how loving you are about it, it connects on the level of "hey, you're pretty crazy and that sucks for me and you're bad and you should be different and you need some serious help with that because you're incapable, etc." Work on your side of this first, worry about hers later.

It really sounds like you've been a real champ about all of this, clockwork. This isn't your fault, and it isn't your responsibility to get her to seek help. You can make yourself available to her if she reaches out, and you can make peace with this in the meanwhile. But until she chooses to engage there's not a lot else you can do. I feel for you - I've been there all too recently.

[clockwork]

MapleBob,

Thanks for your quick reply. I have time just to send one more before I have to get back to work.  I understand she will not be responding anytime soon to my communications and most likely never.  I just wondered if sending an email would cause more harm than good? 

My letters have been to build trust.  Her pins have been a way to communicate.  She has done this many times with me in the past as odd as it is.  Having said that I agree she may just be talking to herself this time.  I just don't want to destroy any trust I may have built in my letters from emailing her.  I don't believe I've been overbearing in my communications to this point except for the text which may have been a surprise. 

My email would be "just saying my text was an attempt to offer her gratitude in case she was recognizing and responding to one of my letters.  One of her last pins was "At times i'm not always ok to talk about things.  But it is good that you are there to be a support network".  If you believe foolish or harmful to send feel free to say so

[MapleBob]

MapleBob,

Thanks for your quick reply. I have time just to send one more before I have to get back to work.  I understand she will not be responding anytime soon to my communications and most likely never.  I just wondered if sending an email would cause more harm than good?

It doesn't sound like you've been overbearing in your communications with her, which is good! But I think you should sleep on sending her any more communiques. Give it a day, then if you're still undecided, give it another day. But in my layman's opinion, she's giving you the hint that she won't respond to communication. Validate that by respecting it, for now at least.

Are you familiar with codependence?

[JQ]

Hey Clockwork,

MapleBob makes some really good & valid points in some of his comments. In particular, "However, it seems to me that your goal is to re-engage her, and she is making it pretty clear that she's not ready/willing to do that. I think that initiating further communication with her is going to result in a similar response from her. .  With someone who has Cluster B BPD mental illness, it has been established that THEY will reach out when & how THEY want too. No amount of calls, emails, text, Pinterest, etc is going to make her change her mind.  and MapleBob emphasis this point with, "She certainly got your text, and her response was to take down her pinterest. Sadly, I'd say that's the opposite of wanting to communicate with you."  IF & WHEN she wants to reach out to you she will ... .you can't force the situation or do your own manipulation of the situation via email or text to speed the process along.

MapleBob also makes a very valuable point, "It very very rarely goes well when a non tries to get a cluster-B into therapy."  Trying to get someone into mental healthy therapy is as tough if not more then trying to get someone into AA.  In both cases they have to recognize & realize & admit to themselves they have a serious problem and they need to seek out professional help. Even when they do for whatever reason there is no guarantee that it's going to provide much management of the problem. As I've said, my BPD is & has been in & out of therapy for 25 plus years and continues to have major behavioral problems that this site educates about.

You asked me a question ... ."can you provide me why you don't believe I don't have the necessary tools for a R/S with someone who has a cluster B?"


Cluster B is defined by the Mayo Clinic as ... ."Cluster B personality disorders

Cluster B personality disorders are characterized by dramatic, overly emotional or unpredictable thinking or behavior. They include antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. It's not necessary to exhibit all the signs and symptoms listed for a disorder to be diagnosed."

BPD as defined by Johns Hopkins Medicine Health Library, Cluster B"borderline personality disorder. People with this disorder are not stable in their perceptions of themselves, and have difficulty keeping stable relationships. Moods may also be inconsistent, but never neutral. Their sense of reality is always seen in "black and white." People with borderline personality disorder often feel as though they lacked a certain level of nurturing while growing up. As a result, they constantly seek a higher level of caretaking from others as adults. This may be achieved through manipulation of others, leaving them often feeling empty, angry, and abandoned, which may lead to desperate and impulsive behavior."

National Institute of Mental Health

Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a serious mental illness marked by unstable moods, behavior, and relationships. In 1980, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders, Third Edition (DSM-III) listed BPD as a diagnosable illness for the first time. Most psychiatrists and other mental health professionals use the DSM to diagnose mental illnesses. People with this disorder also have high rates of co-occurring disorders, such as depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and eating disorders, along with self-harm, suicidal behaviors, and completed suicides.

The findings suggest that either people with borderline personality disorder are not persuaded by rewards of money in the same ways as healthy people, or that they do not regard low investment offers as a violation of social norms. The researchers also found that people with borderline personality disorder reported lower levels of trust in general, compared with healthy participants. In other words, untrustworthy behavior by the investors would not be seen as a violation of social norms because the participants with borderline personality disorder had less trust in their partners to begin with.


US National Library Medicine defines:

BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER is a chronic psychiatric disorder characterized by marked impulsivity, instability of mood and interpersonal relationships, and suicidal behaviour that can complicate medical care. Identifying this diagnosis is important for treatment planning.

So with that being said, ask yourself the same question. AS good as your intention is to be a part of her life and more importantly want to build a life with her and her kids ... .do YOU feel YOU are equipped with the necessary tools giving the serious mental illness she has?  

JQ

[JQ]

Clockwork,

Define ... .Codependent relationships are a type of dysfunctional helping relationship where one person supports or enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement.

10 Signs of a Codependent Relationship

Author Melody Beattie wrote the book “Codependent No More” and developed the following checklist for determining whether or not you may in a codependent relationship:

Do you feel responsible for other people’s feelings — their thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being, and destiny?

Do you feel compelled to help other people solve their problems or try to take care of their feelings?

Do you find it easier to feel and express anger about the injustices done to other people than about injustices done to you?

Do you feel safest and most comfortable when you are giving to others?

Do you feel insecure and guilty when someone gives to you?

Do you feel empty, bored, or worthless if you don’t have someone else to take care of, a problem to solve, or a crisis to deal with?

Are you often unable to stop talking, thinking, and worrying about other people and their problems?

Do you lose interest in your life when you are in love?

Do you stay in relationships that don’t work and tolerate abuse in order to keep people loving you?

Do you leave bad relationships only to form new ones that don’t work either?

Dangers of Codependency and BPD

It’s easy to get into a codependent relationship with a person who has Borderline Personality Disorder given the nature of BPD. There is a tendency for loved ones to slip into caretaker roles, giving priority and focus to problems in the life of the person with BPD rather than to issues in their own lives.

Too often in these kinds of relationships, the codependent will gain a sense of worth by being “the sane one” or “the responsible one.” There is almost always an unconscious reason for continuing to put another person’s life ahead of your own, and often it is because of the mistaken notion that self-worth comes from other people.

When we give up ourselves to help others, we rob ourselves of the potential for a richer, fuller existence that includes self-care and self-love. We also rob the other person of their opportunity to grow and take responsibility for their own problems. Often, it is only when the safety net has been removed that people take steps to look out for their own well-being.


Co-Dependents Anonymous (CoDA) is a set of informal self-help groups made up of men and women with a common interest in working through the problems that co-dependency has caused in their lives. coda-uk.org

Explore: Co-Dependents Anonymous


JQ

[clockwork]

JQ,

Thanks for being straightforward.  


JQ-On the surface your depth of knowledge in this area seems very solid.  If you don't mind I would like to tap into your perception and understanding.

JQ,  can you provide me why you don't believe I don't have the necessary tools for a R/S with someone who has a cluster B?  Why does having the above traits provide detriment to the R/S with a cluster B?  And with having these traits is the R/S hopeless or can adjustments be made for harmony?

Thanks, clockwork

 

JQ, I appreciate your update on whether I'm equipped with the tools to have a relationship with someone with a Behavioral disorder. Honestly I do not know.  But my will and intention usually pushes me to persevere thru most any situation.

All I can do is continue to gain an understanding and prepare myself if that opportunity arises. She is worth not abandoning.  Yes it most likely will take a miracle from the Almighty for all to see, recognize and accept the truth of it all.  And from that truth her being open to the pain and difficulties she will have to accept to allow her to overcome this undeserved hardship.  I know I made a few mistakes in our R/S.  I find there is nothing wrong with me providing her support if she seeks that from me. 

I do have a request for the items in bold above.  These traits being in particular the Perfectionist, Sheriff and the protective Knight?

As for perfectionist I'll speak to that now.  Our challenge was communication and this was all I was trying to fix.  This is something where improvement was needed from the both of us.  For me understanding her anxiety triggers to prevent unneeded apprehension along with utilizing validation skills and incorporating them as a routine practice.   I started to do this, but often did not practice validation.  For her she needs to learn to feel comfortable with opening up with what is truthfully troubling her.  I'm certain this at times was of the most difficulty for her causing her pain/anxiety.

[tryingsome]

For her she needs to learn to feel comfortable with opening up with what is truthfully troubling her.  I'm certain this at times was of the most difficulty for her causing her pain/anxiety.

You want to save the relationship, I get that. So on that notion, look at your quote above. This is likely never going to happen, her being truthful about what is troubling her; not if she has BPD. You have to be okay with it.

You can't expect her to change. You have to be okay with it.

Any notion of she needs to do ... .something... .  is not going to happen.

You have to be okay with it. 

You are you. She is she.

Cherish that and it might work.

The only person to save and fix will always be you.

Cherish that and it might work. 

Be strong and you got this!

And have tons of support

[blackalak]

Is there any way we can have the OP turn this into a poll with all the answers posted to it?