He broke his hand...

[empath]

About a month or so ago, uBPDh got frustrated and angry one morning at me. He went downstairs to shower and punched the tile wall and has been noticing that it hasn't healed properly. After that, he has been seeing a T and taking antidepressants and working on 'self care'. Anyway, today, he decided to have a doctor look at his hand. He broke the joint at the base of his pinky finger and now has a splint up his forearm which he wants to take off. He has an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon later this week. He just talked with his work supervisor and told her about the appointment, too.

He says he feels stupid and embarrassed that he let his anger get to that level. So, I was listening and trying to figure out how to respond in a helpful way. Then he wanted me to respond with something more than the non-commental nodding and hmm. I said that there wasn't a lot of good options for me to respond with. Validating the feelings of being stupid and embarrassed didn't seem good because he would hear that he was stupid or an embarrassment; I finally said that I was glad that he went to the doctor.

I'm struggling with how to respond in a helpful way when he is dealing with the consequences of his own actions and feeling bad about those actions. How would you respond?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[flowerpath]

A tile wall.  Well.  That’s a hard lesson. 

Sometimes it is really difficult to think of what to say, isn’t it?  I’m right there with you, nodding and hmming.  You were honest in letting him know that you weren't really sure what you could say about that, and I think that saying that you are glad that he went to the doctor was a great way to show that you care. 

Since validation is supposed to target the other person’s perspective and to empathize and communicate that you understand, do you think a simple way to say it is something like …

“I understand.  You’re feeling (upset/angry with yourself/ embarrassed)…

that you action (hit the tile/broke the door down/bought that biplane)…

and that makes you feel (embarrassed/regretful) …

because the consequence (your hand is broken/that door is going to be hard to replace/you didn’t realize we didn’t have enough money for that).”   

Then make it normal like any other person -- “I think anyone would feel the same way….I’m glad you went to the doctor about it…”   

It won’t necessarily help him deal with the consequences (some are better suffered alone - like the pain of a broken hand or the work of replacing what was broken - hopefully a lesson learned!), or make him feel any better about what he has done, but it will at least show that you understand and that you care. 

[waverider]

Validation often only really means showing a genuine interest. This can be done by asking questions.

"How does it make you feel?",

"How do you think you might act differently next time you feel that emotion?",

"How long does the splint need to stay on"

"Is it going to affect your work"

":)o you often feel that level of anger?"

"Is there anything I can do to help soothe you when you feel that way?"

ie you dont need to provide him with answers, just interested enough and taking him seriously to want to know more. If you fob him off he will just assume that you quietly think he is a bit of an idiot and are just being polite by not saying so.

[empath]

The challenge that I had was that he had already verbally told me how he was feeling (and what he told the doctor -- he 'jammed' his hand in the bathroom), what the challenges were with work, how he was working on doing better next time, what the next steps in his care were, etc. He also doesn't like it when I get 'counselor-like' with him -- that's pretty much my default mode. So, restating what he told me doesn't go well; I get accused of 'turning it back on him'.

He is now seriously looking for a new job because he blames his current job for his inability to do the things that he needs to in order to take care of himself. This is his pattern (it's been almost 2 years in the current job), so it's not unexpected -- and he doesn't like me pointing it out. Other people have noticed the pattern as well and raised concerns about it as it relates to his personal goals.

[maxsterling]

Wow.  I know exactly how you feel here.  And I am guessing another key component is that you are just tired of hearing about it, tired of hearing the negativity, tired of him being in a bad mood all the time (in general).  Am I right?

That's the biggest issue I face when my wife comes at me with such negativity.  I just have never been around it, don't know how to respond to is other than saying  "that sucks" or nodding, and just feel even more exhausted dealing with it day in/day out. 

Example:  my sister in law upset her a few weeks ago.  Okay, I get it.  But do I have to hear about it every other day?  Nothing new has happened since.  Yet at least a few times a week, she will bring it up.  I'm exhausted hearing about it!

This is such a common struggle for me.  I'm a positive person that likes to think forward.  She's a negative person that dwells on negative projections.  So when she comes to me with negative projections day in and day out, I just don't know how to respond.

[waverider]

Example:  my sister in law upset her a few weeks ago.  Okay, I get it.  But do I have to hear about it every other day?  Nothing new has happened since.  Yet at least a few times a week, she will bring it up.  I'm exhausted hearing about it!

This is such a common struggle for me.  I'm a positive person that likes to think forward.  She's a negative person that dwells on negative projections.  So when she comes to me with negative projections day in and day out, I just don't know how to respond.

We have this as an ongoing issue with anger at FOO. Her councilor had just left after a home visit were she had poured out her miseries over the latest blow up about her mum. Her plan was to refrain from calling her family. I was having a nap and she was straight on the phone to her brother. I awoke to find her in tears on the phone to the police. She had a blow up with her brother and then called the police to report him (just for being a nasty person).  Very childish.

The point is, it is an addiction to drama and you can't fix it. All you can do is avoid having it projected onto you and you get on with your business while the sky falls down (in their reality), keep it out of yours, it will pass.

[empath]

Wow.  I know exactly how you feel here.  And I am guessing another key component is that you are just tired of hearing about it, tired of hearing the negativity, tired of him being in a bad mood all the time (in general).  Am I right?

That's the biggest issue I face when my wife comes at me with such negativity.  I just have never been around it, don't know how to respond to is other than saying  "that sucks" or nodding, and just feel even more exhausted dealing with it day in/day out. 

I struggle with staying engaged with him as he tells me of the same old feelings and situations; it is both boring and exhausting to hear about. Last night, he was telling me about his issues with his job -- this time it was more focused on 'advancement potential' in his current job. I was able to stay engaged, but really wanted to just say -- you aren't going to stay with it long enough for that to be a 'real' issue. Thankfully, I didn't actually say that. I also wished he could just be content with something (didn't say that either).

I also struggle to find new ways to restate what he has said (over and over... .). Last night, I came up with a good empathetic response.

[ColdEthyl]

Wow.  I know exactly how you feel here.  And I am guessing another key component is that you are just tired of hearing about it, tired of hearing the negativity, tired of him being in a bad mood all the time (in general).  Am I right?

That's the biggest issue I face when my wife comes at me with such negativity.  I just have never been around it, don't know how to respond to is other than saying  "that sucks" or nodding, and just feel even more exhausted dealing with it day in/day out. 

I struggle with staying engaged with him as he tells me of the same old feelings and situations; it is both boring and exhausting to hear about. Last night, he was telling me about his issues with his job -- this time it was more focused on 'advancement potential' in his current job. I was able to stay engaged, but really wanted to just say -- you aren't going to stay with it long enough for that to be a 'real' issue. Thankfully, I didn't actually say that. I also wished he could just be content with something (didn't say that either).

I also struggle to find new ways to restate what he has said (over and over... .). Last night, I came up with a good empathetic response.

Empath I struggle with that too. My H will go into broken record mode and just repeat himself over and over. Sometimes I want to scream because I don't want to hear it AGAIN, but I don't . The best thing that works so far is just sort of repeating what he said to me... .but it doesn't always stop. The BPD hamster is running in the wheel and it won't stop until it gets tired.

[waverider]

I find i do zone out and dont listen at times. I know thats not validating or the ideal thing to do, but it is my mind protecting my sanity. It's an example of exercising my right to not have my carers hat on all the time. If it causes a problem I will fix that if and when it arises.

If I attempted to always be on the ball that would wear me out, often resulting in snappy responses, so it is the lessor of two evils sometimes, and I am happy with that and don't feel guilty.

[empath]

Yesterday, we had a situation come up with our church ministry that brought up some of the things that we are dealing with in our own relationship. There is a married couple that we know who just filed for a legal separation (S is the husband in this couple and T is the wife). My uBPDh talked with S earlier this week. S said that the separation was due to his inability to financially support T, and they needed to take the step so that she could get benefits to help with their finances and healthcare. He mentioned some mental health issues that had been pretty intense and had taken a toll on their marriage.

When I talked to T, S's wife, I discovered that she has been suffering physical health issues (she has several severe health issues that are intensified by stress) due to S's mental health issues. She had been told by doctors, therapists, etc., that she needed to remove herself from S to keep herself healthy. She is unable to hold a job due to her health issues, so she needed to apply for government benefits which require a legal separation.

So, I was describing what I had found out about the situation to uBPDh. The stress from the S's mental health issues are causing T to suffer physically, and she needs to remove herself so that something worse doesn't happen in her health. My H responds with -- well, she shouldn't leave her husband; they are married for sickness and health. He told me to talk with a colleague about it, thinking that the colleague would have the same point of view. At that point, I had to leave for a meeting; I was already late. When I returned, I talked a bit more with H about the situation and the differences in their perspectives. I mentioned that S probably wouldn't tell H that the problems were that S was causing stress in their home and T had to move out. H replied that H would have admitted the problems. I just pointed out that he had told people that he 'fell' or 'jammed' his hand. I also mentioned that our colleague was more supportive when I explained the situation.

It is one of those times when things get a bit close to what our own experience is. I'm hoping that H will start thinking a bit more about what can happen in a relationship when there is stress from mental health issues. Not holding my breath, though.

[ColdEthyl]

I find i do zone out and dont listen at times. I know thats not validating or the ideal thing to do, but it is my mind protecting my sanity. It's an example of exercising my right to not have my carers hat on all the time. If it causes a problem I will fix that if and when it arises.

If I attempted to always be on the ball that would wear me out, often resulting in snappy responses, so it is the lessor of two evils sometimes, and I am happy with that and don't feel guilty.

Oh I do that, too. Sometimes I'll be tinkering with my Ipad while he talks. As long as I nod every once in a while and make an effort to acknowledge what he said it's gold. If I didn't 'zone out', I would be snappy too sometimes.

[empath]

A few years ago, we had a 'discussion' where he said "I don't feel like you are listening", even though I could restate both the facts and the emotions that he was having -- one of those repeating 'discussions' that they have. I think that was one of those eye-opening things to realize that I can only do what I can do and I have to leave his feelings up to him.

I figure minimal engagement is probably better than what I really want to respond with -- I'm tired of the conversation loop... .That would be invalidating.

[Jessica84]

Yup. I do a lot of smiling and nodding. Especially during one of those broken record rants I've heard before. Somehow my mind can recall in detail what he said even if I wasn't paying attention. Plus, well, I've heard it before so it's not too hard to pretend I was listening.  

Sometimes our conversations are more like being talked AT than a mutual exchange. When we first met and talked a lot on the phone, he asked me if I could say things like "yep" and "uh-huh" frequently so he knew the connection was good. Little did I know it was because he wasn't going to actually let me talk!

[waverider]

Sometimes our conversations are more like being talked AT than a mutual exchange.

Yep I have even come out and said that exact phrase. Doesn't go down well, but has to be said.

Used to be a lot worse when stories used to have so much padding and too much information and when I tried to join in I got ... "Let me finish". Of course by the time she finished I had forgotten what I wanted to say and zoned out, so that led to accusations of not showing interest... Thanks goodness things are not that bad anymore.

It does get better when they dont have to try as hard to get the validation they are after

[ColdEthyl]

Sometimes our conversations are more like being talked AT than a mutual exchange.

Yep I have even come out and said that exact phrase. Doesn't go down well, but has to be said.

Used to be a lot worse when stories used to have so much padding and too much information and when I tried to join in I got ... "Let me finish". Of course by the time she finished I had forgotten what I wanted to say and zoned out, so that led to accusations of not showing interest... Thanks goodness things are not that bad anymore.

It does get better when they dont have to try as hard to get the validation they are after

So they all tend to talk like this? That exact thing happens to me too. I'm glad to hear at least some of it can be diminished if they get better, or feel more validation.

[empath]

He talked with his T about the change of jobs. T said that it was more an issue of accepting who he is and making decisions that honor who he is instead of trying to fit into an idea of 'what should be'. He needs to 'be compassionate' with himself. (yep) But, he denied that other people have mentioned the work history as a problem -- they have, I was there. He is thinking that his goals should not be things that require long term commitments to a group of people.

I get the 'conversations' where it is more being talked at than it is a mutual exchange. Then, he will claim that 'we discussed' something when it was him talking about it. I told him that we didn't actually have a discussion -- he talked about it.

[Jessica84]

His goals may be realistic for him if on some level he knows 2 years is all he can take on one job.

What happens around the 2-year mark? Does he get bored with the work? need a change of scenery? problems with his co-workers?

[empath]

He starts feeling stuck and a lack of control over his own life/career (and a bit panicky and depressed). He has had jobs that changed in the time that he was there, but the 2-year mark is pretty steady. Some of his current goals require more of a long-term commitment, so he will need to re-think his own goals. Honestly, I think this would be a good thing if he can accept that he needs to find something that does not require more than a 2-year commitment.

My own issue has always been the fact that he seems to be dreaming of being in situations that require more commitment than he has. He thinks that he 'should' be able to stay somewhere longer than he does and regrets when he 'can't handle it' any more.

[waverider]

I always struggled with long term jobs, so I changed to working sub contract work whereby I was employed per job project then moved elsewhere (in construction).

The fear of long term commitment is a real fear. It is a fear of being trapped, almost like claustrophobia. It only becomes a real problem if you cant accept it and think you can do long term when you cant. Pretty much as you have stated

His delusions are probably created as he views not staying as failing.

Sometimes pwBPD can't collect the dots together over a time frame. So each time it takes them by surprise when the same thing happens.

[empath]

I think it comes back to self-acceptance. When I think about my own career decisions, a large part of them took into account my own personality, workstyle, passions, needs, etc. There are things that would drive me crazy to do on a full-time long term basis, but I am good at them. So, that wasn't a path that I chose for a career.

He seems to think he has a character flaw if he can't stay with a job for more than 2 years -- so he regrets leaving and blames the change on an outside force. The other adults in his life (FOO) have stayed with their positions for much longer than he has, so he thinks something is wrong with him.

He has an in-person interview this morning with a new company.

[waverider]

The other adults in his life (FOO) have stayed with their positions for much longer than he has, so he thinks something is wrong with him.

As long as others act as though there is it will reinforce it. It is common for long termers to assume those that change jobs are incapable, it is their way have justifying their own long tenure. But as you say everyone is different, neither ios right or wrong

[empath]

So, now he is worried that he is too old for the field that he was trained for; he doesn't think anyone would hire him. These past few days, he has been talking about starting his own agency. We don't know what the outcome of his interview will be. The company has some needs for a person with his training and experience, but he is waiting. He hates waiting. He is also thinking church/God/religion is against him -- and they are against me, too.

We've been here before... . 

[ColdEthyl]

So, now he is worried that he is too old for the field that he was trained for; he doesn't think anyone would hire him. These past few days, he has been talking about starting his own agency. We don't know what the outcome of his interview will be. The company has some needs for a person with his training and experience, but he is waiting. He hates waiting. He is also thinking church/God/religion is against him -- and they are against me, too.

We've been here before... . 

I've been there, too. My H has also claimed he has bad luck... .God hates him, and anything bad that happens to me is because of HIS bad luck/God hating. I hope he gets a positive answer soon!   

[waverider]

So, now he is worried that he is too old for the field that he was trained for; he doesn't think anyone would hire him. These past few days, he has been talking about starting his own agency. We don't know what the outcome of his interview will be. The company has some needs for a person with his training and experience, but he is waiting. He hates waiting. He is also thinking church/God/religion is against him -- and they are against me, too.

We've been here before... . 

I've been there, too. My H has also claimed he has bad luck... .God hates him, and anything bad that happens to me is because of HIS bad luck/God hating. I hope he gets a positive answer soon!   

Sounds like me when I go fishing and can't land a bite... .conspiracies are everywhere