Need advice

[Sam057]

Good morning,

My 19 ddBPD checked herself into rehab a week ago on Thursday and is not speaking to me but  has called her dad a couple of times.  She has called on both occasions for money, but at least we know she is alive.

She says she will be in rehab for the next 30 days and then she has a plan, when he asks for specifics, she says he doesn't need to worry.  This appears to be her new line... .

Who is paying for rehab? I figured it out

What are you planning on doing after rehab? I have a plan

She is using our insurance but our insurance doesn't cover everything.

She claims her therapist says she shouldn't speak to me because I upset her and she shouldn't be spoken down to.

She told him yesterday family day is tomorrow and that we needed to pay her medications- a new antidepressant ($230)

So as of right now we are torn between what we want to do and what we should do.

Should he go see her?

Should we pay for the medicine or have them change the script?

Should we barter with her for information?

Please give me your thoughts.

She also hasn't given us permission to speak with her therapist, although she said she signed consent.  The therapist called my husband and informed him all she could discuss with him were the rules of Sunday's visitation.

Also important to mention, my daughter didn't consult with anyone from her established clinical team, family or friends and the rehab is 2 hours away.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Dear Sam

Although it might be hard for you and your family not to know exactly wht is going on... .I see this a very good step forward for your dd. She is 19 and should be the one in charge and the one seeking help. I am very impressed with how she has gone about this. If she has a plan for after rehab great. It is her life and it is time she started taking ownership of that.

Should he go see her? Yes if you feel you can go and be supportive then go. Don't go if you have an agenda and a list of question you want answers to. Give up the control... .it is not helping the situation and all you are doing is sending mixed messages of " you are encapable of doing things on your own" and "you can't do this without us" You need to send the message that you are here if she needs you and that you are proud of her for realizing she needs help.

Should we pay for the medicine or have them change the script? I how ask if there was a generic instead and find out why the cost of this med is so high but I would consider paying if it is the only choice right now until she can get on her feet and pay for it herself.

Should we barter with her for information? NO... .you need to accept that she is in control or her life and that she is going to be driving the bus. I think you will find the less you demand the more she will share with you.

Your dd realizes you are are trigger for her so right now it is better to try and reduce the conflict because she is struggling with substance abuse and I think conflict can trigger reuse. Is it more important that you have control or is it better to let your dd take the wheel.

[Sam057]

Thank you for your honest advise.  Our family therapist advised against a visit because it is her opinion that she is splitting: I am all bad and dad is all good.  We really have no problem allowing our dd do with her life whatever she wants, however she seems to go out of her way to behave outrageously and her brothers and sisters are the collateral damage she leaves behind.

I have a problem financially supporting someone who treats our family like the source of all her problems and feels we are obligated to help.

She went to rehab to run away from the situations she herself created, this is her strategy... .She was in a DBT program, had made all 6 individual therapies and 3 groups.  This was a milestone because it was the longest stretch she has done that is not in an rtc program.

She also lied and entered rehab under a false pretense.  Her problem is not drugs it is her inability to handle distress.

[lever.]

Hello sam

I don't feel in a position to offer you advice, particularly about paying for the medication, however I would like to share with you a mistake I have made which I would like to alert you to so you can avoid it.

When my DD was in her late teens/ early 20s she made a number of serious suicide attempts. She also had an eating disorder and her behavior was all over the place.

Obviously I was extremely worried about her and very stressed. This led me to find it difficult to let go and let her make her own decisions and I intervened in a few situations which I now regret (my intentions were good).

Under normal circumstances I would not have had a desire to control her life.

She is 34 now and even with hindsight she still resents me for it.

She had me painted black then and she still does to some degree.

I would advise you to stand back and just let her know you are there for her. I am not sure though about paying for things when you are not involved at all. People who want to be treated as independant adults usually pay for themselves.

[jellibeans]

Dear Sam057

I understand your stand on finacially supporting her... .I am not sure of the situation... .was she living at home before this? Were you supporting her in anyway? I guess for me it would depend on my support before rehab. If she was living at home or away at school and you were paying her bills then I do think you should at least continue until you have a plan for her independance. It seems like you are kind of punishing her for not allowing you more access to her health care. I don't see how that is going to help her. I think you need to really look at the reasons for withholding funds for medication. How is she able to pay right now? Has she applied for help with SSI? Is she disabled and unable to work?... .at this point I really see things as positive and that she is getting help. I would support that 100%... .I would not care what blame she casts your way... .you know the truth... .don't get sucked into the illness.

I don't know all the details of your situation but what I see is your need to control... .that is not going to help your daughter. Putting boundaries in place to protect your family is important but she needs to take responsiblity for her life. It is very hard to watch and you are probably acting out of fear but let her stand on her own two feet and give her the support she needs to do that. That is the best thing you can do. Even if her problem isn't drugs she will learn some coping skills and it will not be a waste. Sometimes DBT can hit a nerve and maybe she was not ready to deal with those feelings etc... .no one can force her to change or to face her problems. She has to do it on her own.

Focus less on right and wrong... .less on control... .and be less judgmental

[SeaSprite]

Sam, it sounds so heartbreaking. I don't have any experience with kids in rehab, but for what it's worth I'll share my philosophy about young adult kids and money, something we've had a fair amount of experience with.

I've told my kids, that my philosophy about paying for things is that I'll pay for things that seem to be an investment in their future, but won't fund a lifestyle. (For example, No, I won't pay for you to move out into an apartment ten minutes away, yes, I'll pay tuition and medical expenses.) This boundary works for me (even though it causes a certain amount of angst about what the kids will do if they don't like my answer), so that I can feel good about the money we do spend, and gives me something reasonable to communicate to them about my reasoning for helping or not helping.

The other thing, being painted as the bad guy- it feels terrible! The thing I've told my girls when they are hating me, is that it's ok if they hate me, that I love them no matter what and nothing they do can change that. I can be mad, sad, hurt, disappointed, frustrated, but no matter what I ALWAYS love them. It seems to help, to give them a safe space for their feelings and to role model holding two contradictory feelings at the same time (ie anger and love, something very difficult with BPD). I've also told my SD something similar on her dad's behalf when she was talking to me but not sure she wanted to talk to him because she felt unsupported.

I don't know if this helps, and I hope that your D gets what she needs from rehab, and that you are able to take care of yourself!

[Sam057]

Thank you for all your honest opinions and observation.  It is very helpful to have another person's perspective.

I want to elaborate on a few points:

My daughter has been living with a friends family since mid May we have supported 2 failed attempts at college.  She was thrown out of the first apartment and then left again without speaking to us as was couch hoping for about a month until she convince us she could afford taking care of herself and just needed a guarantor.  She is unable to keep a job for more than 3 weeks and went thru $3500 in 5 weeks.

She respects no household rules in our home and claims we have given her no money.  She doesn't even appear to register.

What I can tell you we have done is: consigned a student loan she never used because she changed her mind about going to that community college and then we had to pay the remainder of the lease I guaranteed.

She has masterfully split therapists, doctors and family members

I would give the family she was staying at a weekly contribution for her expenses.  My dd would say I should be giving her that money.

We had to finish paying another lease through August even though she left in May.  Now the apartment needs to be cleaned out, she is in rehab and says she will take care of it. How? She won't say.  So I will likely end up with a nice bill for that too.

I don't need to be right, I need peace.  There is nothing more important to me that offering my daughter the chance to have a normal life.  I accept that her and I will likely not be close and there will be a certain distance.  I just want to stop feeling like I am living in a bad soap opera.

What I am having a difficult time with is not that I am not involved or that I am the all bad person, what really gets me is the collateral chaos she causes.  From asking her grandmother for money, from going to houses of personal family friends and saying we kicked her out to telling her sister we don't love her.

We walk a fine line and said we would provide for a roof over her head, therapy and food.  She wants us to fund her and behaves erratically when we stick to our boundaries. 

My therapist explained to me that I am grieving. I think I am right now in the phase of anger.  When my dd was away, our life was peaceful, trying to find a balance is very hard.

I also know she lies and if treatment only includes her perspective, the therapists treating her now will lack helpful insight.

I am just bothered by the fact that she selectively chooses adulthood. 

[lever.]

I feel for you Sam

Our DD lied about us and twisted things all the time when talking to therapists (and other people too). In the end I had to let it go. Even if what she was saying to them wasn't accurate it was her perception and that's what the therapist had to work on.

I also had to try to hold my head up when people were possibly believing horrible things about us.

The money thing is difficult-it needs a lot of careful consideration about what your boundaries are and clear communication. You can't keep fishing her out of financial messes-but she does need to know where she stands  

[jellibeans]

Sam

I think it is good that you recognize you are grieving right now and you are angry. I have found that when I really looked what I was angry at was not so much what my dd did but how I responded. I can be disappointed in the choices my dd makes but I also feel at times I have not up held my boundaries and then later I regret that and I feel angry about it.

Have you ever read valerie Porr's book Overcoming BPD? I have been rereading it and I just find it so insightful. The radical acceptance part is really the key I feel when dealing with a pwBPD. For me also I had to stop rescuing  my dd... .had to stop trying to fix things after she messed things up... .it is scary to watch our children struggle but they need to learn how to live their life and sovle their own problems.

My dd lies too... .all the time. It is frustrating but because she has lost our trust she has lost some freedom and some perks. It is something I am trying to balance right now... .consequences... .boundaries and less punishment. Your daughter is sick and I think when you accept that then you can look at things from a different perspective. Put some distance between you and her and see how she solves her problems.

one of my favorite quotes

It is not within my power to orchestrate the outcome... .I can only try to create opportunities... .

love this quote... .take care of yourself Sam... focus on what you can do to better cope with the situation. We can only change ourselves... .we have no power to change them.

[pessim-optimist]

Hello Sam,

I think there is good advice here from others and good insights from yourself as well... .

I don't need to be right, I need peace.  There is nothing more important to me that offering my daughter the chance to have a normal life.

What is it that you are freely willing to give regardless of what she does about it?

... .what really gets me is the collateral chaos she causes.  From asking her grandmother for money, from going to houses of personal family friends and saying we kicked her out to telling her sister we don't love her.

That is a very painful, and stressful downside of this disorder. She will keep doing that. What's the best way for you to find peace in this, so you don't have to keep waiting for her every next move and react to that/do damage control, etc. etc.?

We walk a fine line and said we would provide for a roof over her head, therapy and food.

Is that still something you are willing to do, or does her breaking the lease, leaving you with a bill, and checking herself into the rehab change the situation? If so, and if you changed your mind, it's ok. You might need to tell your daughter about that (something like - "we have said in the past that we would provide a roof over your head and food and therapy; it has been really expensive for us in the last year, and so we will be able to do xyz for you from now on." and tell her what you are willing to do.

Again - regardless of what she does about it - that way, you protect yourself from disappointment, failed expectations and power-struggles with her.

 

I am just bothered by the fact that she selectively chooses adulthood.

That's understandable, it IS very frustrating. She will keep doing that, though.

So, to protect yourself from the frustrating dance, if you sit down and decide for yourself and your family where the limits of your support are, and how you can keep your family protected from the chaos, you will gain the peace you need, and your dd will get the support you are willing to give (if she accepts it), and the rest is in her ballpark.

Does that make sense?

For example, if I were in your situation, I would probably not co-sign or be the guarantor for any financial matters in the future, as your dd has not been responsible with that. She has a plan for getting the rehab paid? Good, I wouldn't worry about that, and let her figure it out.

She wants you to pay for the prescription?

You might decide it's ok to pay for it. Or - in some states there are programs for people w/out income or low income and many medications are dispensed on a sliding scale or even for free - if you have that option, I'd research it and switch dd on that, so she can be more independent. Her stay in the rehab might be a good time to do that, as the staff might be able to help with it or direct you to the right place... .

[Sam057]

Update-

Dad saw dd today at rehab.  Took her to lunch, bought her some clothes and took her for a mani/pedi.

He delivered the following messages:

We love her

When she left we had already scheduled a family therapy session at her DBT therapy office

We would like to have access to her rtc clinical staff so we can better understand her dx and that because mental illness has a strong genetic component this information would help us with her siblings.

We are trying to learn, understand and practice a different, more effective way to communicate with her

My husband was told to keep it light so he did... .

I am a little concerned because we are going on a family vacation next week and concerned this will trigger a crisis or at least constant calling... .

Praying for peace

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

It possibly will Sam. Think about your boundaries in advance. Could you tell her that you will only be checking your phone at certain times of day-perhaps put aside half an hour to respond to any calls using SET?

I hope that you manage to get a nice break.

Has anyone recommended the book by Valerie Porr "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" to you.

It really is very good and has a lot of information and practical advice.

[theplotthickens]

I totally understand what you are saying. Everyone seems comfortable judging YOU, while treating your child's behaviors with 'non-judgement.'  They take her word at face value while, when it is a bunch of manipulative crap.  

I accept everything you are saying and am right there with you.

I think you are tired of being used as a cash machine and an emotional punching bag. I think you are tired of taking all the blame.  We love our kids so much that sometimes it is hard to live our values and respect ourselves!  I would support you in whatever decision makes you feel respectful of yourself - whether it is turning off the cash machine, telling someone off, etc.  I sense you have been too nice for too long and it is time to set some boundaries because you are feeling taken advantage of.  I highly recommend "Family Guide to How to Stop Walking on Eggshells."  Super help-ful!

My dd played those same games with family therapists all the time - and I eventually set the boundary that I would not go as long as she was playing games and being dishonest.  Woo hoo - very freeing to set boundaries! I have told therapists that I feel blamed for my daughter's behaviors, and that it will do her a lot of good if she is encouaged to take responsibility for her choices and actions.  If they "get it" they do; if they don't, they probably won't ever "get" BPD.  I have spoken to many parents at NAMI and other places who experience blame from therapists... ."Blame the Mother" is often the first thing in their therapy play book.  If you have been a caring, giving mother for a long time, holding all your negative emotions inside, it makes sense that they are coming out now that she is 19.  I support you in venting the anger, and maybe even telling a few people off!   It is wicked of me, but it does make me feel so much better after years of "accepting"

"non-judgement" and "letting go."    It's funny how parents don't get those same perks - we are always doing something wrong.   If we set rules, we are too rigid; if we play it by ear, we are not providing enough structure - LOL!  If we stand up for ourselves, we are being reactive; if we don't, we are being victims.  So, my advice is to do whatever you really believe is best.  

If you choose to have boundaries with financial support, that is your right.  Would you feel better about yourself if you were not feeling like a cash  machine?  My main concern is YOU and supporting you in feeling comfortable with how you are dealing with all of this drama and illness.  

It is certainly emotionally, financially, and spiritually draining.  You can take your power back, and get back in the driver's seat of your life.  It sounds like your dd has too much power over you, and that you need to make some decisions about what you are truly comfortable with.

Keep us updated!  Read "Family Guide on How To Stop Walking on Eggshells" - it is amazing for what you are going through.  It is from a family member's perspective; not so much from a therapists or BPDers.

If you feel the therapist would be helped by your POV, you are free to give it.  Blaming others for all their behavior is one of the more frustrating BPD behaviors.  

[FaithfulHope]

Dear Sam,

My dd22 is very similar to your own.   We have spent years struggling to walk the tightrope of caring/supporting without enabling and caving to demands.   We had a simple set of house rules for her to follow from age 18 to present.  She couldn't/wouldn't follow them and with the encouragement of a therapist we made her move out. She did nothing to assist so we got the apt for her and we agreed to pay the first six months.   Things got worse and worse and worse for years.  She was in and out of our home 5 times and each time she refused to follow the house rules and chose to leave or was asked to leave.  We learned after two apartments to stop funding that and let her find her own place to stay.   That was HARD!  But she forced our hand.   But, she has been back home now for the longest stretch since she was 18... .10 months and counting.   Its not perfect but she does follow the house rules enough to stay.   She still has many things that need change... .but she can keep this roof over her head for now.   

Another thing I found from our experiences is that 'the system' gets involved better the less we are involved.   She attempted suicide a few yrs ago and I thought that was going to open all the doors to get her the services/assistance she needs.  Nope. They saw a caring loving family anxious to find help and felt she was in good care and just turned her back over to us.   She had herself discharged from the mental hops after only two days! 

So the next two times she has been brought to the hospital we didn't go.   Once we put things in place to prevent her from stealing from us, she began stealing from others.  She got caught shoplifting and when caught told the police she was going to harm herself.  They called me to say they were bringing her to the hospital.   I was sick over it but didn't go.   Wouldn't you know they set her up with a supplemental insurance right then and there to pay for her copays!  She never renewed it so it lapsed but I was amazed that it got setup just like that!

About a year ago she went to another hospital she claims for rehab.   She didn't tell us she was there and I heard through friends.   So I contacted the hospital and they wouldn't even talk to me as she was an adult.   She eventually called me and flipped out on me but I emailed a file to the main email of the hospital that I keep on her about her history.   From what I have learned, eventually after a certain number of hospitalizations the system will step in and begin to provide services.   That's what I have been told.  So we try to love her and keep a cordial relationship with her.  She has a roof over her head, food in her belly, we pay her medical copays and therapy.  We let her drive our cars only to/from work or to/from therapy.  That's it.  The rest is up to her.   We support good choices but we don't get involved in bad ones... .we don't go to court and we don't do jail visits (although that hasn't happened yet but may be coming soon). 

Sorry to be long winded.  I hope this helps.