The more I learn, the more discouraged I get

[CPWUSAF33]

I'm devouring everything on this site and am reading every word intently in Shari Y. Manning's book, "Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder."

While all of this has helped tremendously in my own understanding, it also has a "double edged sword."  For example, I click on a lesson like, "Helping a Loved One Seek BPD Treatment" it just leads to another dead end.  My BPD wife meets 8 out of 9 of the classic BPD symptoms, yet there seems to be no way for me to really lead her into seeking help.  I can't tell her I think she has BPD (even not reading the article I knew that would be a bad move).  However, there was no real solution on how to get her help.

Maybe I need a break from all the reading.  It is good to know that I am not alone; but, it is also frustrating that there are no real solutions.  Yeah, I know, I can only change myself; however, one cannot help fantacizing on how great life would be if the BPD you love was actually diagnosed and receiving help.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

There is a process for most of us.

1 We discover about the disorder, elated we may have an answer and hopefully the start  towards an end

2 Learning we are not alone, but overwhelmed by the extend of it

3 Enthusiasm with trying out some tools and having a direction. even seeing some early changes

4 set backs, disillusionment, as we start to see issues that  we didn't even notice before.

5 Frustrations we can't fix them and their apparent reluctance to join in us to fix them.

6 Realizing that saying we know we can only work on us to fully appreciated what this means and getting in the right mindset.

7 Finding ourselves and not being quite as bothered by their stuff, because it really is not our stuff.

8 Reaching a space of clarity whereby whether we stay or go it will be done in full knowledge of it being an educated choice knowing we are doing right for us without assumptions or regrets

[coworkerfriend]

Thank you for posting the process - that is exactly what I went through since discovering BPD in September 2012. My pwBPD has been in therapy for 12 years. I started using the tools to stop making things worse which has helped his therapy tremendously.

I have to honestly say that I am still between 5 and 6 in the process.  In December, I was definitely struggling and frustrated.  I know I have a lot of work to still do to get to 7 but at this point in time, I am sure that I will get to acceptance and clarity.  It make take a while and I am sure I will have more set backs.

I try to remind myself that this is a journey and there are always bumps in the road.

[CPWUSAF33]

Even the process is a "double edged" sword... .

Thanks for posting the process.

I am trying--I really am and will not give up.

[coworkerfriend]

Good luck.

Sometimes you need a break from trying before it breaks you down completely.

Be kind to yourself and focus on what works for you. 

[kft]

My BPD wife meets 8 out of 9 of the classic BPD symptoms, yet there seems to be no way for me to really lead her into seeking help.  I can't tell her I think she has BPD (even not reading the article I knew that would be a bad move).  However, there was no real solution on how to get her help.

Obviously every case is different and you know your wife better than anyone else, but I don't think it's fair to say that having a conversation about BPD is always a bad move. It depends on the pwBPD. Mine knew something was wrong and was actively seeking an answer. He would study articles on schizophrenia and sociopathy for any connections to what he was experiencing, which did not bring him any closer to seeking help because he was fixated on hopeless possibilities. All his research did was further his self-hate. It made sense to hand him some info on BPD.

I can only change myself; however, one cannot help fantacizing on how great life would be if the BPD you love was actually diagnosed and receiving help.

It's the fantasy that's the problem though. A relationship with a pwBPD is hard because we ignore the    for sake of a fantasy. We assume all the good is the real person, all the bad the disorder. Don't do the same to recovery. The reality of it is recovery won't eliminate all the negatives and leave all the positives, it will change elements of both and you may not like the results.

More to the point, therapy is not a solution if the person in therapy is not strong enough to take charge of their own mental health. I go to a NAMI support group for Friends and Family once a month and you won't believe the horror stories. There are some seriously f-ed up people working in the mental health industry. I've seen people misdiagnosed, over-medicated, pushed into treatments they found traumatizing, or worse yet locked up and simply ignored.

Therapy doesn't fix people. Therapy gives people the tools to fix themselves, but it can't do that if the person in therapy isn't looking for those tools yet. Putting people in therapy who are not ready for it just leaves them vulnerable to abuse.

[rubyhammer]

I understand the voracious reading... . I'm doing the same thing and at times over the last 2 or 3 months I've forced myself to read something NOT related to BPD or codependency, just to give the information I have received time to sink in.

     My wife and I were at a counseling session, the therapist pulled out the DSM Manual and went through the 9 traits of BPD.  My wife literally said "Yes" to every one.  So she knows what the therapist thinks.

     But just this morning she looked right at me and said "I don't have a disorder."  I responded, "I understand that you feel that way and if someone told me I had a disorder I would have trouble accepting it, too.  However, I see it differently than you do."

     She repeated, "I don't have a disorder."

     I said, "I understand that's how you feel.  I see it differently and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that."

She's not getting any proper therapy and doesn't seem open to it at all, but, perhaps NOT admitting is the first step to  accepting it. 

     I feel like I'm at about step 3 of Waverider's process.  Even the above-mentioned conversation has left me feeling TONS better than I used to, and it's because I've changed the way I respond (or don't respond) in the situation.

Have a good day!

     

[Mono No Aware]

Good luck.

Sometimes you need a break from trying before it breaks you down completely.

Be kind to yourself and focus on what works for you. 

+1000!

[an0ught]

Hi CPWUSAF33,

to second and expand to waverrider's great process description

The more I learn, the more discouraged I get

this is why there is a focus on learning skills i.e. doing vs. acquiring knowledge is on this site. We encourage members to camp on the Staying or Leaving board but not get stuck in-between for too long. The more you learn without doing the bigger the gap gets and the pain you perceive is your mind telling you "there is a gap to close - move".

A good and sometimes even fun exercise to get started with practical validation can be posting on the new member board and greeting newbies. Writing can be helpful to think through and find words for the emotions on the other side.

[waverider]

this is why there is a focus on learning skills i.e. doing vs. acquiring knowledge is on this site. We encourage members to camp on the Staying or Leaving board but not get stuck in-between for too long. The more you learn without doing the bigger the gap gets and the pain you perceive is your mind telling you "there is a gap to close - move".

This is important, each aspect, even if it seems obvious and small, takes a long time to become fully part of our thinking. This is impossible to do if you are hopping from one board to the next, and from one book to the next, picking up on all the bits that ring bells. This is what pwBPD do, garner as many opinions as possible then cut and pasting them to validate their own preconceived ideas.

When I stopped studying and researching, and instead concentrated on sticking to the Staying board and hashing things through with members who were trying for the same goals as myself, that is when i started to make real progress.

Shining a light all around a dark cave simply reveals more dark corners and not necessarily a way out. It can blind you from seeing the light coming from the correct path.

All pwBPD are individuals, all relationship dynamics are different, do not assume they will react the same way as some of the worse case scenarios that you hear. You can take on a "hypochondriac' type of response to too much research.

[djblazer]

I am near the beginning stages as described by waverider. As I read about how very pervasive this disorder is, I am getting overwhelmed by sadness and hopelessness. I just feel so sorry for my pwBPD- it is horrible to have to deal with a lifetime of this disorder.

[waverider]

I am near the beginning stages as described by waverider. As I read about how very pervasive this disorder is, I am getting overwhelmed by sadness and hopelessness. I just feel so sorry for my pwBPD- it is horrible to have to deal with a lifetime of this disorder.

It is horrible, what makes it all the worse is it takes acceptance and commitment on their part to do anything about it. Unfortunately they are the very qualities the Disorder robs sufferers of. Few other disabilities are as self sabotaging as BPD. All we can do is make sure we are not collateral damage.

They almost need therapy just to understand the need for therapy  

As a bystander it is like watching someone apparently needlessly wasting their lives

It does result in high incidences of depression amongst carers, so take care of yourself

[CPWUSAF33]

Mine knew something was wrong and was actively seeking an answer. He would study articles on schizophrenia and sociopathy for any connections to what he was experiencing, which did not bring him any closer to seeking help because he was fixated on hopeless possibilities. All his research did was further his self-hate. It made sense to hand him some info on BPD.

Totally different than my wife with BPD!  She does NOT see herself as having ANY mental issues outside of depression.  I even tried "leading" her into seeking help several times before, thinking, "maybe this time."  I even tried, getting her to support me going to counseling for me and she pretty much thought, "Good, I always knew you and the rest of the world is screwed up!" (She never actually said that; but that's the translation). 

It's the fantasy that's the problem though. A relationship with a pwBPD is hard because we ignore the    for sake of a fantasy. We assume all the good is the real person, all the bad the disorder. Don't do the same to recovery. The reality of it is recovery won't eliminate all the negatives and leave all the positives, it will change elements of both and you may not like the results.

More to the point, therapy is not a solution if the person in therapy is not strong enough to take charge of their own mental health. I go to a NAMI support group for Friends and Family once a month and you won't believe the horror stories. There are some seriously f-ed up people working in the mental health industry. I've seen people misdiagnosed, over-medicated, pushed into treatments they found traumatizing, or worse yet locked up and simply ignored.

Therapy doesn't fix people. Therapy gives people the tools to fix themselves, but it can't do that if the person in therapy isn't looking for those tools yet. Putting people in therapy who are not ready for it just leaves them vulnerable to abuse.

I understand all of that--I would not expect a miracle--I just want her to at least be exposed to the "tools"  She needs help!  If you could only call an "mental illness ambulance"--Maybe I'll start a business! LOL!

[CPWUSAF33]

I understand the voracious reading... . I'm doing the same thing and at times over the last 2 or 3 months I've forced myself to read something NOT related to BPD or codependency, just to give the information I have received time to sink in.

     My wife and I were at a counseling session, the therapist pulled out the DSM Manual and went through the 9 traits of BPD.  My wife literally said "Yes" to every one.  So she knows what the therapist thinks.

     But just this morning she looked right at me and said "I don't have a disorder."  I responded, "I understand that you feel that way and if someone told me I had a disorder I would have trouble accepting it, too.  However, I see it differently than you do."

     She repeated, "I don't have a disorder."

     I said, "I understand that's how you feel.  I see it differently and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that."

She's not getting any proper therapy and doesn't seem open to it at all, but, perhaps NOT admitting is the first step to  accepting it. 

     I feel like I'm at about step 3 of Waverider's process.  Even the above-mentioned conversation has left me feeling TONS better than I used to, and it's because I've changed the way I respond (or don't respond) in the situation.

Have a good day!

     

I would consider that a GIANT STEP FORWARD!  Congratulations--I would be grateful beyond words to get even that far!  You have a most blessed day and STAY ENCOURAGED!

[CPWUSAF33]

Hi CPWUSAF33,

to second and expand to waverrider's great process description

The more I learn, the more discouraged I get

this is why there is a focus on learning skills i.e. doing vs. acquiring knowledge is on this site. We encourage members to camp on the Staying or Leaving board but not get stuck in-between for too long. The more you learn without doing the bigger the gap gets and the pain you perceive is your mind telling you "there is a gap to close - move".

A good and sometimes even fun exercise to get started with practical validation can be posting on the new member board and greeting newbies. Writing can be helpful to think through and find words for the emotions on the other side.

Good advice--Thank-you!

[rubyhammer]

Thank you, CPWUSAF33!  I hope you have a great day, too!

[joshbjoshb]

I'm devouring everything on this site and am reading every word intently in Shari Y. Manning's book, "Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder."

While all of this has helped tremendously in my own understanding, it also has a "double edged sword."  For example, I click on a lesson like, "Helping a Loved One Seek BPD Treatment" it just leads to another dead end.  My BPD wife meets 8 out of 9 of the classic BPD symptoms, yet there seems to be no way for me to really lead her into seeking help.  I can't tell her I think she has BPD (even not reading the article I knew that would be a bad move).  However, there was no real solution on how to get her help.

Maybe I need a break from all the reading.  It is good to know that I am not alone; but, it is also frustrating that there are no real solutions.  Yeah, I know, I can only change myself; however, one cannot help fantacizing on how great life would be if the BPD you love was actually diagnosed and receiving help.

Let me tell you that your frustration is going to get much worse soon - if you are committed, you are going to apply some tools, see AMAZING changes, start believing that the future is going to be all good, then... . crash, she is back to her regular self, and you are so hurt and upset.

Well, you will get over that too

[Stalwart]

Sorry this is a bit long but I just seem to need to get it off my chest.

CP I was so where you are. My wife has always sought therapy though knowing something was wrong, whether it was with the rest of the world or her I'm not too certain. She was grossly misdiagnosed for years.

It took her hitting the bottom of a barrel in a jail cell to actually open up to the idea that this might be her illness. I never knew what was wrong, just that something terribly disturbing was wrong with her thinking and reactions to things.  :)uring a huge incident and her reactions to it, it became so clear as to exactly what was wrong with her and to what a drastic extent she had plummeted. Maybe sometimes a person has to hit the bottom to realize they need to work their way up.

After quite some time of horrible dysregulation she became open to my suggestions and after a long time of working carefully toward it I did some online tests with her when she was in a reasonably good state. She failed the BPD online tests in every category. She also knew this. I had already make arrangements for fast-tracking testing and diagnosis through some very good friends. I suggested she go and maybe they could help her. It may not even be that, but at least she would know. Of course her outside voice was still denying anything was wrong but her inside voice new better. She made and cancelled two appointments. The most I did was tell her I was a bit disappointed but if she decided to cancel again they wouldn't reschedule, I’d run out of favours  and it would be a year until another opening might come up IF they accepted her application after the cancellations. I left it totally up to her with no expectations or pressure on my part. She went. She actually found a therapist (that I first ensured was well-experienced with BPD and positive about the treatment) and she loves her. Doesn’t do her homework or seem to practice any lessons but she loves her.

Since that time my life with her has changed drastically in the right direction. Not because of her treatment but because I learned so much about how to rethink this and change the things I needed to about me to be more empathetic, supportive, open, communicative with her, understanding and meet the needs she had that are generated from fears and inhabitations. None of this is easy and everything has taken so much dedication to learning, trial and error and commitment on my part. I’m well aware that everything could fall to pieces again tomorrow but for today they’re  good. She now trusts me and that’s huge. I can’t say the same about her but I would never say that either. Once bitten, twice shy. The two biggest tools I’ve learned are radical acceptance and validation. I view my wife as person I love and an illness she has that I hate, not the other way around.

We’re the ‘sane’ ones my friend with the greatest ability to make these changes and can’t expect them to participate in the process. We are one’s fortunate enough to be able to have the wherewithal to change these things for the most part, not them at all. You can change the  dynamics of the entire situation yourself.

Take a break, I have to from time to time from learning. I’m really dedicated to it. I don’t talk much about it with my wife because I don’t want her to have to live in the shadow of the monster every day and all her life, I don’t want to either. Some days she’s good with believing she is BPD but really mild, (not the case) and others there’s nothing really wrong with her at all. That’s all good by me. As long as she stays regulated, on a good path and moving forward I don’t give a hoot what she says. My answer is always the same one, “You’re doing just great the way you are and I love you so much, if there’s ever anything; I’m here to talk to if you want to”. Our lives are so much better now I’m totally grateful for every small step forward. It doesn’t matter if she’s right or wrong or if I am. It’s just about moving forward.

I wish you the best with your endevour.

[CPWUSAF33]

Thanks Stalwart for the post.  I read every word of it.

Right now, it is hard to see the possibility of any hope.  As you probably guessed I am in the middle of one of her "Black" world episodes where she sees me as the evil no-good husband.  While I understand there are no shades of gray for the pwBPD, I still find it hard to not be affected by the utter stare and look of hatred in her face.  I have spent my life dedicated to her--provided for her--loved her--always been faithful.  So, while I know it is a sickness, it still hurts me--I never get used to it.

And this time it is different--Usually, her worst rages last about a week; but, I am going on two-weeks now of her absolutely giving me the look of hatred with no communication.  What is amazing, she still makes dinner, does her chores around the house; but, completely ignores me.  I still tell her if I'm going out--I still try to make small talk even though I am rejected.  I have "validated" and followed the advice from others on here.  I'm staying strong; but, I am going crazy, hoping and praying that her BPD switch will go back to "white."

Thank-you for sharing your story--your post was not long because it was well worth reading and has helped me.  While I cannot imagine her ever getting counseling, your post tells me it can happen.  Also, your sharing that it is easier because of what you learned is also encouraging.  I will study every lesson and am willing to try or do anything.

Thank-you and may God bless!

[waverider]

Stalwart what you have now is a sense of direction and purpose. Its helps avoid a lot of the pointless conflict. There is still frustration, but not the same resentment. It is easier to accept.