Superbowl meltdown

[123Phoebe]

Phoebe --

Wanted to let you know that I think you are making terrific suggestions here, and I appreciate everything you add to this discussion. These are the "Staying" boards, after all -- and anyone who chooses to try to improve their relationships will benefit from learning these techniques. I have no doubt about that.

I did utilize a lot of these techniques in my r-ship. Sadly for me, I didn't see enough improvement. In my case, I didn't feel like the additional energy, focus and re-commitment that I made to improving how I communicated with my ex was warranted, because any improvements were nominal and temporary. It was very disappointing.

This is the way to do it, though. I admittedly don't have the stamina -- or, rather, the desire for this kind of relationship. It felt too much like I was always playing the role of counselor/role model. I wanted a partner, not a patient. Not saying that's how everyone's situation is at all -- but that's how I felt in the end. Which wasn't fair to either of us, so I made a decision to leave.

eyvindr, sounds like you made the right decision for you  I felt and sang(!) "Freedom" (Aretha Franklin), when the house was signed over in my name after divorcing exh (bought him out of the house).

What I have found so interesting through all of this, is that very rarely do I even have to speak in a way bf "hopefully understands", or use the tools or whatever.  When the going has gotten tough, I've used them and they work!  Because I mean what I say when I'm talking to him, speaking with my values backing up my words.  He knows what I'm all about.  I'm not psych-speaking him on any sort of regular basis Don't have to  Nor does he  We're pretty darned open and comfy with each other.

I want the members here to feel happy!  Find some goodness in their relationships!  I wasn't finding any of the good stuff when my main focus was on what he wasn't doing for me... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

Formflier, is the goal to pi$$ off your wife?  I'm assuming not and that her getting pi$$ed is a byproduct of your calm, relaxed manner... .  The way it reads though, is that your change in behavior isn't so much about you or bettering the "relationship", as much as it is to get some sort of reaction from your wife, be it good bad or ugly.  Even though I don't believe that to be your intention.  What I'm wondering, is if she's not picking up on this, too?  Are you really feeling more relaxed, or simply playing the part of being calm and relaxed?  This stuff matters!  Otherwise, we're coming off as disingenuous and untrustworthy.

I'll never know exactly why it pisses her off... .but my assumption is that "enforcing" healthy behavior... .healthy conversation styles... .or not participating in those is frustrating her. 

Now that I have been doing this more... .and been consistent... .and it has been going on for a while... it seems much less like "p$ssed off" and more like "frustration"... .

For my r/s... my wife... .the more direct ways of making a point are far less effective.  Don't know why... .I would rather be direct... .

So... .for me... ."It seems like you believe you can read my mind... ."... .would be pretty close to a dysreg... or a stepping stone to that.  "It frustrates me that you tell me my emotions... "  will usually bring a nasty retort... ."I know them better than you... ."  Basically a ploy to draw me into a fight.  I've tried it several times... .or variations... .and it doesn't work.

My wife seems to be very susceptible to "let the questions convict you... ."  It is a much more roundabout way of doing things... .but... .it removes me from suggesting the answer... .allows me to talk less... .plus... .it allows me to listen for emotions to validate.  Easier when there is less talking from me and more from her.

We have a history of having very "unclear" conversations... .this is also a part of that. 

So... examples... .my wife will tell me ... "don't do this... .don't do that... ."

And... when I ask her what she wants me "to do"... .she will say she just told me... .if I say anything like "no you didn't... "... it's on... .

"help me understand what you want me to do... ."... keeps it calmer

or variations on help me understand.

Here's is where I get a bit harsh... .it came across in the last post... .it is... what it is.

I will have emotionally healthy conversations... .we will not tell each other what the other is feeling... I will drive all conversations in that direction.  Period... . 

If that makes my wife happy and glad... .fine.  If it makes her mad... .fine.

I firmly believe that further improvement in our r/s is possible... .and I'm keeping the momentum going.

Even more genius... is this is "her idea... "... .she is one that brought up invalidation and we need to eliminate it from our r/s...

So... she hasn't been able to successfully stick the "you don't listen to my ideas thing... " in a while

Yeah... .I get it that it sounds a bit harsh... .and I do have a bit of an off brand of humor about it... .it helps me get through it.

Hope this helps everyone understand... .also... .note that this may not work in your r/s... .just because it works in mine.  BPD is a spectrum... .

[Jessica84]

Yep. Not every technique works. I've tried some that made things much worse, and others that had no effect at all. Depends on the people in the r/s and the spectrum. There really isn't a magic formula... .but FF's methods happen to work brilliantly for me. No idea why. Maybe my bf is similar to ff's wife? Or I'm similar to ff? All I know is when I apply them, both of us are less triggered and even triggered moments calm down quicker. I was glad when I finally stopped making things worse. Honestly, I never expected things to actually improve... It's... .weird? It's... .working?

Today I was upset about something that happened at work. He said "I wouldn't worry about it." (dismissive) But then he surprised me by adding "But just bc I wouldn't be upset doesn't mean you aren't, so I'm sorry you feel that way." WOW! Validation... for me?

[Cat Familiar]

For my r/s... my wife... .the more direct ways of making a point are far less effective.  Don't know why... .I would rather be direct... .

So... .for me... ."It seems like you believe you can read my mind... ."... .would be pretty close to a dysreg... or a stepping stone to that.  "It frustrates me that you tell me my emotions... "  will usually bring a nasty retort... ."I know them better than you... ."  Basically a ploy to draw me into a fight.  I've tried it several times... .or variations... .and it doesn't work.

My wife seems to be very susceptible to "let the questions convict you... ."  It is a much more roundabout way of doing things... .but... .it removes me from suggesting the answer... .allows me to talk less... .plus... .it allows me to listen for emotions to validate.  Easier when there is less talking from me and more from her.

We have a history of having very "unclear" conversations... .this is also a part of that. 

So... examples... .my wife will tell me ... "don't do this... .don't do that... ."

And... when I ask her what she wants me "to do"... .she will say she just told me... .if I say anything like "no you didn't... "... it's on... .

"help me understand what you want me to do... ."... keeps it calmer

or variations on help me understand.

Here's is where I get a bit harsh... .it came across in the last post... .it is... what it is.

I will have emotionally healthy conversations... .we will not tell each other what the other is feeling... I will drive all conversations in that direction.  Period... . 

If that makes my wife happy and glad... .fine.  If it makes her mad... .fine.

I firmly believe that further improvement in our r/s is possible... .and I'm keeping the momentum going.

Even more genius... is this is "her idea... "... .she is one that brought up invalidation and we need to eliminate it from our r/s...

So... she hasn't been able to successfully stick the "you don't listen to my ideas thing... " in a while

Yeah... .I get it that it sounds a bit harsh... .and I do have a bit of an off brand of humor about it... .it helps me get through it.

Hope this helps everyone understand... .also... .note that this may not work in your r/s... .just because it works in mine.  BPD is a spectrum... .

This is very helpful. I tend to be very direct and that doesn't at all work with my husband. If he gets agitated, he becomes argumentative and then the "district attorney" part of his personality comes to the forefront. (I keep telling myself that getting into an argument with an attorney is a losing proposition. Fortunately, since I've discovered this board, I haven't done that.)

I love the "let the questions convict you." A former boyfriend once told me, "Whoever asks the questions, controls the conversation." I think I need to tattoo that on my wrist.

[EaglesJuju]

Yep. Not every technique works. I've tried some that made things much worse, and others that had no effect at all. Depends on the people in the r/s and the spectrum. There really isn't a magic formula... .but FF's methods happen to work brilliantly for me. No idea why. Maybe my bf is similar to ff's wife? Or I'm similar to ff? All I know is when I apply them, both of us are less triggered and even triggered moments calm down quicker. I was glad when I finally stopped making things worse. Honestly, I never expected things to actually improve... It's... .weird? It's... .working?

I think this is a great point. It is almost like "trial and error" with our pwBPD, trying to find what works for both people in the relationship. FF's "no nonsense" methods have worked for me as well.

[Jessica84]

Yep. Not every technique works. I've tried some that made things much worse, and others that had no effect at all. Depends on the people in the r/s and the spectrum. There really isn't a magic formula... .but FF's methods happen to work brilliantly for me. No idea why. Maybe my bf is similar to ff's wife? Or I'm similar to ff? All I know is when I apply them, both of us are less triggered and even triggered moments calm down quicker. I was glad when I finally stopped making things worse. Honestly, I never expected things to actually improve... It's... .weird? It's... .working?

I think this is a great point. It is almost like "trial and error" with our pwBPD, trying to find what works for both people in the relationship. FF's "no nonsense" methods have worked for me as well.

He got hysterically emotional one time when my computer crashed a few months ago. A virus ate up most of my files, even my backup drive. I was completely dysregulated, frustrated, angry - nothing to do with him. He hadn't touched my computer.

He starts flooding me with strange apologies about how he was a bad man and the cause of all my troubles. What the... .? I was in no mood to deal with his "issues".

So I employed the FF Method (well, sort of)...

"Help me understand how you caused my computer to get a virus... did you cough on it?"

I know using sarcasm would go against everything in the BPD toolbox... .but... .it worked. He was quite supportive after that. What I wanted to say was "it's not about YOU!"

[eyvindr]

Often in life, humor can be very effective at breaking the tension and shifting the dynamic to something less intense.

In Bippiddee Land, I think sometimes it can work -- but it's much more relative (to the situation, their mood, level of dysregulation, etc.).

And sarcasm, as most of us seem to know, can be funny -- I tend to think it is. But I've learned that not only am I not the norm on that, also lots of people interpret it as hostile -- which wasn't anything I was aware of until it was explained to me. There's a pretty wide chasm in my world between humor and hostility -- I don't think I confuse the two at all, when I'm on the receiving end of sarcasm. But, I could see where someone might associate sarcasm with hostility, in a triggering sense.

The bigger issue may be that in pwBPD sarcasm might cause confusion by jarring with their tendency towards B&W thinking -- if it "sounds" negative, they could "feel" it as negative, and that could trigger them.

All a bunch of invisible emotional landmines that I don't want to have to worry about with a romantic partner. If we don't "get" each others senses of humor, it's pretty much a deal-breaker -- not in a someone's wrong sense, but it goes to fundamental compatibility.

[Cat Familiar]

He got hysterically emotional one time when my computer crashed a few months ago. A virus ate up most of my files, even my backup drive. I was completely dysregulated, frustrated, angry - nothing to do with him. He hadn't touched my computer.

He starts flooding me with strange apologies about how he was a bad man and the cause of all my troubles. What the... .? I was in no mood to deal with his "issues".

So I employed the FF Method (well, sort of)...

"Help me understand how you caused my computer to get a virus... did you cough on it?"

I know using sarcasm would go against everything in the BPD toolbox... .but... .it worked. He was quite supportive after that. What I wanted to say was "it's not about YOU!"

That's a hilarious example of the magical thinking they do. My H "took responsibility" for my backing into the garage door because the edge of my cowboy hat hit the garage door controller clipped to the sun visor and the door started lowering without my awareness.  

[Jessica84]

Eyvindr - I so agree. Generally our senses of humor are compatible. But in a triggered state, not so much. Unless I add a "help me understand" in front of it. No idea why?

In the wrong state of mind, he can sometimes interpret sarcasm as hostility. And other times, he will interpret genuine statements as sarcasm. I once complimented him on a big goal he accomplished at work, and he blew up.

I SAID:  "Great job!"

I MEANT "Great job!"

He HEARD: "way to go, loser"

I was baffled. Didn't know about BPD back then. Had no idea why he took it that way? How had I invalidated him? Looking back at the incident, I now know of all the "mistakes" he think he made and how he felt he screwed it up completely... .He really didn't, but felt he did... .so my compliment was the opposite of how he felt, and taken as sarcasm. Sigh. Now I let him talk so I can hear all the details first. Being mindful also helps. I've noticed he is far less triggered by what I say now. And doesn't go nuts when I'm sarcastic. I get to be me again, only a more mindful me! 

[formflier]

But in a triggered state, not so much. 

The point about them hearing different things... when triggered... .is oh so true.

Yeah... so... about a week ago... .wife comes into room and wants to have a conversation about our oldest daughter... has been a trigger point for along time.

So... I'm on my best game.

I can't go word for word... .but my wife says...

w :"If FF daughter really believes this... then I am really disappointed in her"

ff:  "I totally agree... .if ff daughter really believes that then I am disappointed in her as well... .I agree with what you are saying... "

there is a little more chit chat... and then she grumps about my "if ff daughter believes that comments" and storms out of room.

I went down to talk about it later... and she claimed I didn't agree with her... .

I tried not to laugh...

I think she quickly realized she was looking like an idiot... .and changed the subject... .I let it drop...

Sigh... .we could call it "BPD ears"