Child Support without CO

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My DH has been voluntarily paying child support to uBPDx for the past two years since he filed for custody (they were never married so he had to establish fatherhood first). We based the child support he pays on what we think it would be given the statute in our state. We still don't have a CO, and the schedule is very erratic but we generally get 50/50 visitation.

Right now we are going through a custody eval. uBPDbm is really triggered. She filed a motion claiming DH should pay her $1000/month in child support based on our spending habits on our combined credit cards (a lot of it spent on our wedding, some of it out of my pay, not at all based on his pay or anything regarding the actual calculation of CS in our state).

Today she sent a raging e-mail to DH's L saying she's now threatening to schedule a hearing based on this and thinks the court will order emergency support. Will they do that since we don't have a visitation order yet and since we are going through a CE? We have a deadline of 60 days to finish the CE before we can do mediation and then trial after.

What do you guys think of this?

[Thunderstruck]

My DH has been voluntarily paying child support to uBPDx for the past two years since he filed for custody (they were never married so he had to establish fatherhood first). We based the child support he pays on what we think it would be given the statute in our state. We still don't have a CO, and the schedule is very erratic but we generally get 50/50 visitation.

Right now we are going through a custody eval. uBPDbm is really triggered. She filed a motion claiming DH should pay her $1000/month in child support based on our spending habits on our combined credit cards (a lot of it spent on our wedding, some of it out of my pay, not at all based on his pay or anything regarding the actual calculation of CS in our state).

Today she sent a raging e-mail to DH's L saying she's now threatening to schedule a hearing based on this and thinks the court will order emergency support. Will they do that since we don't have a visitation order yet and since we are going through a CE? We have a deadline of 60 days to finish the CE before we can do mediation and then trial after.

What do you guys think of this?

[scraps66]

I think/know she's blowing smoke and barring that - NOTHING happens quickly in court. 

Though you mention these things I assume they are permitted for factoring in the CS, but, check the State guidelines.  In my state of PA, only the income of the mother and father are considered, no expenses, no consideration for income of a new spouse, etc.  Only the income calculated using the guidelines is used on both sides.

[Thunderstruck]

I think/know she's blowing smoke and barring that - NOTHING happens quickly in court. 

Though you mention these things I assume they are permitted for factoring in the CS, but, check the State guidelines.  In my state of PA, only the income of the mother and father are considered, no expenses, no consideration for income of a new spouse, etc.  Only the income calculated using the guidelines is used on both sides.

No, sorry I didn't make that clear. In our state the formula only includes each parent's pay, child's health insurance, daycare expenses, and then adjusted for visitation time. So her random calculation based on the amount that we both have spent in the past year includes my income and the money my parents gave us for the wedding, which is completely bogus. I just wonder what the judge is going to think when he looks at that motion. 

[scraps66]

One thing about some BP's, they are full of smoke and can reach for straws.  What could happen is that the judge appreciates paying support all along, without an order, and documents continuing to pay the same amount.

[ForeverDad]

I recall that when I filed for divorce it took nearly two months to get the temporary order hearing and at that time the magistrate ordered child support for my ex retroactive to the date I filed.  So I was immediately liable for the current month, the prior month and part of the month before that.  Then less than two weeks later at the end of the month CSEA sent me a PAST DUE letter telling me I was IN DEFAULT and I would be reported to credit agencies as DELINQUENT in 30 days if not fully paid up by them.

Has he been paying her with checks or payments clearly identified as estimated child support?  Even if he's done that, some courts consider any money paid outside of court orders as "GIFTS".  There is a potential risk, however slight, his interim payments could be ignored as 'GIFTS' in any court order.  Be aware, beware.  That's one way us Nice Guys and Nice Gals trying to do the right thing can get royally burned.

A saying seen around here now and then... .Good Intentions and Good Deeds Get Punished.

[Swiggle]

My DH moved out of his marital home in March of 2011 and calculated CS based on the guidlines from our county. He started paying that amount via a check to his ex the day he moved out. CO was finalized 6 months later and they ordered the same amount and the judge was complimenting him for doing the right thing even without an order. In our state they only go by mom/dad's income and then parenting time with daycare. I agree with others, I think she is blowing smoke.

[ugghh]

Simple rule - do not take legal advice from ex or stbx spouses!

I have the same concern as ForeverDad regarding the prior payments being deemed as Gifts.  Please consult your attorney.  It may be possible for L or DH to draft a letter explaining / documenting that he has been paying X amount to her voluntarily as child support.  Ideally she will respond acknowledging receipt of the prior payments as support, which bolsters your case.

You should also understand that in general visitation and child support are considered separate and distinct topics by most courts.  Even if your spouse withholds visitation, you cannot arbitrarily stop paying child support.  Visitation is a issue between the two parents, while nominally child support is for the benefit of the child, who should not be punished for poor decisions by the parent.

I am just curious as to why the uBPDx is sending letters directly to your DH's L?  Is she representing herself?

[Thunderstruck]

Simple rule - do not take legal advice from ex or stbx spouses!

I have the same concern as ForeverDad regarding the prior payments being deemed as Gifts.  Please consult your attorney.  It may be possible for L or DH to draft a letter explaining / documenting that he has been paying X amount to her voluntarily as child support.  Ideally she will respond acknowledging receipt of the prior payments as support, which bolsters your case.

You should also understand that in general visitation and child support are considered separate and distinct topics by most courts.  Even if your spouse withholds visitation, you cannot arbitrarily stop paying child support.  Visitation is a issue between the two parents, while nominally child support is for the benefit of the child, who should not be punished for poor decisions by the parent.

I am just curious as to why the uBPDx is sending letters directly to your DH's L?  Is she representing herself?

uBPDbm has acknowledged in her motion that the monies he has paid has been support. So I think we're in the clear there.

Yeah, she's pro se.

I'm just wondering if the judge would even order child support not knowing what the visitation would be (I mean, # of overnights is a factor in how support is divided) since we are smack dab in the middle of an eval?

One of her main complaints to the CE is that DH "never" (splitting, black or white thinking) pays child support, which he now gets to refute with documentation which will make her look less credible.

[scraps66]

One of her main complaints to the CE is that DH "never" (splitting, black or white thinking) pays child support, which he now gets to refute with documentation which will make her look less credible.

"Never" with a convenient distorted BP interpretation, "has never paid child support under order of the court."

[ForeverDad]

The problem is that it may make that one issue go away but it's really hard to get outrageous claims to affect the typical overall outcome by very much.  Maybe a perceptive evaluator will pay attention to the signs, but the court allows a lot of allegations and misbehavior.  Eventually enough might come to the courts attention that they figure her out but its a crap shoot how much the court will care.  The parent behaving poorly seldom has significant consequences and the parent behaving well seldom gets significant credit.  Apparently the bar to be seen as 'okay' is set pretty low for parents.

My early family court life was filled with multiple allegations by ex about me to just about every agency possible, child therapists, CPS, hospitals, sheriff's office (demand for Amber Alert) and of course family court.  Each one was studiously investigated as though it were the first and once determined to be 'unsubstantiated' then the case was closed until the next one.  Some would have put me in prison for a long time and they were the sort of allegations that would have put a bulls eye on me in prison, even convicts have standards and hate certain types of perps.  Even so, she never faced direct consequences.

[Thunderstruck]

Well, looks like she's not blowing smoke. DH's L just sent us a message that they have to schedule a hearing on her motion.

[Nope]

It is likely she'll get a CS order even though you do not yet have a finished CE. He'll likely be given credit for having heen paying all along but since she is entitled to have an enforceable child support order in writing the court will give her what she wants. After all, the children do need the support. However, I have never heard of a court using the earnings of a spouse to determine CS. I think only a couple of states do it. As long as you are not in ine of those states, she'll have to deal with a CS order based on only his earnings. In many states they also factor in other things, like if he has a mortgage he must pay, or other children not of that marriage that he has had and must support. There is usually a formula and you can probably even find it online.

Funny side story. After my DH firdt began seriously dating someone post-divorce from his BPDex she started blocking all contact and visitation to punish him. She refused to let him see or speak to the kids until their was a custody order and a CS order in place. Well, eventually both orders were settled and when the smoke cleared she was getting $200 less per month than she had been before she did all of that.

[Thunderstruck]

So the judge will be ordering it based on what, present circumstances? The past year? Two years (since the date we filed)?

Then if he orders it now... .when we get the final judgement do we have it recalculated? We're going for majority time.

[ForeverDad]

Often parents walk into family court thinking that if he/she gets more time then the amount to pay is less.  While it probably is true to an extent, in my county it's not by much.  For example, in 2006 when I had alternate weekends (22%), the CS calculation was a little less than $700.  Five years later in 2011 when by then we had lived with equal time (50%) since the final decree but I had just become the legal Guardian, the CS calculation was a little more than $700, UP by nearly 10%!  Apparently the large increase in parenting time for me had negligible if any impact, it was either that 5 years had passed with calculations adjusted for 'inflation' or that my actual income rose very slightly while she was 'imputed' with minimum wage both times.  For me it seemed more about the disparity in incomes.

So there I was, I had become Legal Guardian in 2011, finally gained majority time at the end of 2013 and the magistrate's decision was there wasn't enough financial information to set an amount for ex to pay as non-primary parent.  (This despite twice before ex being 'imputed' with minimum wage when the parenting time schedule and CS were in her favor.)

However, Don't let it all become about the money.  Children are the priority, money for expenses is secondary (but not to be ignored either).

[Thunderstruck]

However, Don't let it all become about the money.  Children are the priority, money for expenses is secondary (but not to be ignored either).

This is an aside, but highlights uBPDbm's mindset. She submitted a 4" binder to the CE of "evidence". 90% of the pages in that binder were DH's financial discovery documents. She had highlighted every item that he bought that she didn't consider "essential".

If I were DH I would have no issue providing support if I were to see it actually benefitting SD9. However, it isn't. So we have been making a good faith payment to uBPDbm and still providing all the clothing, school expenses, medical expenses, etc. It's just so frustrating.