If you had the chance/choice what would you do

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

What did you argue about?

Do you still feel the compunction to correct the narrative? Reorder the delusion?

I would suggest you have frustration issues rather than vengeance issues. I am sure they all look the same to pwBPD or in fact others but the internal thinking is totally different.

Frustration - I don't understand why you are thinking/saying/acting in this way and I just want you to stop it now. If you stop it or act differently I will be happy(er).

Vengeance - I understand why that happened, I am angry and want to see you suffer. When I see you suffer I will be happy.

One wants the other to return to a normal state (whatever that is) and the other wants the other to go to a depressed or negative state. There are very few people on the boards that want to inflict vengeance or retribution on the pwBPD but there are a lot of people that want thier pwBPD to return to a "normal" state and "stop it". 

[Enabler]

What did you argue about?

Do you still feel the compunction to correct the narrative? Reorder the delusion?

I would suggest you have frustration issues rather than vengeance issues. I am sure they all look the same to pwBPD or in fact others but the internal thinking is totally different.

Frustration - I don't understand why you are thinking/saying/acting in this way and I just want you to stop it now. If you stop it or act differently I will be happy(er).

Vengeance - I understand why that happened, I am angry and want to see you suffer. When I see you suffer I will be happy.

One wants the other to return to a normal state (whatever that is) and the other wants the other to go to a depressed or negative state. There are very few people on the boards that want to inflict vengeance or retribution on the pwBPD but there are a lot of people that want thier pwBPD to return to a "normal" state and "stop it". 

[Confusedpe]

What did you argue about?

Do you still feel the compunction to correct the narrative? Reorder the delusion?

I would suggest you have frustration issues rather than vengeance issues. I am sure they all look the same to pwBPD or in fact others but the internal thinking is totally different.

Frustration - I don't understand why you are thinking/saying/acting in this way and I just want you to stop it now. If you stop it or act differently I will be happy(er).

Vengeance - I understand why that happened, I am angry and want to see you suffer. When I see you suffer I will be happy.

One wants the other to return to a normal state (whatever that is) and the other wants the other to go to a depressed or negative state. There are very few people on the boards that want to inflict vengeance or retribution on the pwBPD but there are a lot of people that want thier pwBPD to return to a "normal" state and "stop it". 

Even though she is in love bomb mode, as soon as I ask a difficult question she claims I am attacking her and flies into an extreme victimisation state where she just starts sending mass messages and bombarding me with so many different topics just to avoid the question

The question is always in relation to her past behaviour and what guarantee I have that it won’t happen again, she will then absolutely turn the focus on me and start questioning me about things that are irrelevant to the question until we’re arguinf about a completely different topic... .could be anything, the past, present or future

[Enabler]

The question is always in relation to her past behaviour and what guarantee I have that it won’t happen again

What guarantee would be enough? Would you believe her... .do you need to believe her to continue the relationship?

[SamwizeGamgee]

There are no guarantees, and when someone shows you they are crazy, believe them.

[Red5]

The question is always in relation to her past behaviour and what guarantee I have that it won’t happen again, she will then absolutely turn the focus on me and start questioning me about things that are irrelevant to the question until we’re arguinf about a completely different topic... .could be anything, the past, present or future

This quote has been left on these boards many times now, and I try to remember it everyday,

" Maya Angelou — ‘When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.’ "

v/r Red5

[SamwizeGamgee]

Red5 - you're better at quoting than I am.  Thanks.

[Red5]

 

Red5 - you're better at quoting than I am.  Thanks.

@Sam... .maybe one day I will stop quoting, and let that which I read sink into my thick skull ()... .v/r Red5

[Confusedpe]

Great quotes and definitely true ... .

This confusion and internal battle between my heart and brain is going to drive me crazy very soon

All I can say is I wish I never met her

[SunandMoon]

The question is always in relation to her past behaviour and what guarantee I have that it won’t happen again, she will then absolutely turn the focus on me and start questioning me about things that are irrelevant to the question until we’re arguinf about a completely different topic... .could be anything, the past, present or future

People with BPD don't do criticism... .at all! You are asking her to take responsibility for her past behaviour and to do that she would have to see that she was wrong or "bad". Blaming, shaming, even accepting responsibility for her actions will be too overwhelming and so she pushes those feelings back on to you. It wasn't her fault. You MADE her do it.

To answer your original question: yes, I did accept a recycle. We've been together 12 years,  married for 9. It is much better, thanks to around 8 years of lurking on these boards, reading books, experimenting and a lot of learning on my part.

But if I had a crystal ball 12 years ago and I could have seen what this life would be like, I would have walked away while I had the chance.

In your original post, you say she has been 'chasing you for two years' now... .and yet you haven't taken her back. I think you already know in your gut what you need to do.

[Skyhawk]

I saw her tonight, went out and had an argument, she thinks I got anger issues, I do, SINCE I MET HER! She looked so good, but man her argument points are just short of being delusional, she argues her point like it’s valid but it’s complete nonsense

You are fortunate that you have realized this about her arguments. I - and I believe many here - go through a period of time (about a year, in my case) believing that we ARE the cause of the problem. Borderlines are so good at manipulation that they make us question our own sanity, and have us trying to change 'flaws' that never existed to begin with. I would strongly suggest keeping a close friend or family member in the loop with everything that is going on. A therapist would be even better.  When things really began getting bad in my relationship, and I started to see how I was being manipulated, I decided it was time to see a therapist. I told him in the beginning that I was not depressed or suffering from anxiety, but I need somebody to bounce things off of, who could tell me if I was thinking irrationally due to the manipulation.

I still see a therapist for the same reason, although the persistent legal issues and her manipulation of my children now has me dealing with anxiety as well.

[Confusedpe]

You are fortunate that you have realized this about her arguments. I - and I believe many here - go through a period of time (about a year, in my case) believing that we ARE the cause of the problem. Borderlines are so good at manipulation that they make us question our own sanity, and have us trying to change 'flaws' that never existed to begin with. I would strongly suggest keeping a close friend or family member in the loop with everything that is going on. A therapist would be even better.  When things really began getting bad in my relationship, and I started to see how I was being manipulated, I decided it was time to see a therapist. I told him in the beginning that I was not depressed or suffering from anxiety, but I need somebody to bounce things off of, who could tell me if I was thinking irrationally due to the manipulation.

I still see a therapist for the same reason, although the persistent legal issues and her manipulation of my children now has me dealing with anxiety as well.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Sometimes I actually think to myself the following things -

- am I over reacting?
- am I the borderline?
- am I just taking things the wrong way?
- am I crazy?
- 2 years of chasing surely she loves me? Which girl would chase for that long if she didn’t love me?
- am I an over sensitive person?

U get the point... .would love someone’s input on those thoughts

[Lucky Jim]

Sometimes I actually think to myself the following things -

- am I over reacting?
- am I the borderline?
- am I just taking things the wrong way?
- am I crazy?
- 2 years of chasing surely she loves me? Which girl would chase for that long if she didn’t love me?
- am I an over sensitive person?

Hey Confused, No, you're neither overreacting, nor crazy, nor overly-sensitive, etc.  As Skyhawk put it:

I would strongly suggest keeping a close friend or family member in the loop with everything that is going on. A therapist would be even better.

Without someone else in the loop, it's easy to lose all perspective in a BPD r/s.  The danger is that the drama, turmoil and abuse can become normalized, which is what happened to me.  Don't let that happen to you.

LJ

[Confusedpe]

Hey Confused, No, you're neither overreacting, nor crazy, nor overly-sensitive, etc.  As Skyhawk put it:

Without someone else in the loop, it's easy to lose all perspective in a BPD r/s.  The danger is that the drama, turmoil and abuse can become normalized, which is what happened to me.  Don't let that happen to you.

LJ

Thanks LJ

I have certainly been brainwashed to some degree.

The closest 4 people in my life have reacted in the following manner -

- one tells me to stay away, move on etc from her
- one has threatened to never talk to me again  
- one gets frustrated with disbelief
- one recently was in tears, told me at one stage I was the shadow of the man I was and didn’t want to see me go through that ever again.


I guess that helps me put perspective on it

[Lucky Jim]

Right, you need their perspectives.  Sad to say, I became a shadow of the man I used to be, so I can relate to your friend's comments.  Two kind friends and a family member actually had to conduct an intervention on me, because I was so brainwashed and burned out that I lacked the emotional strength to do anything.  Their support allowed me to leave my BPDxW.  They probably saved my life.  I don't mean that to sound melodramatic, because it's true.

LJ

[Cat Familiar]

There are borderlines and there are BORDERLINES!   :

Many of us have had experience with the all caps version, at great risk to our health, safety, sanity and longevity.

It sounds like you’ve got some great friends wh really care about you.

[PeteWitsend]

... .
I think her absolutely amazing looks haven’t helped me and made it harder to walk away, I was probably punching above my weight divison there

... .

What would you do?
Did anyone have this same decision and decide to stay and regret it? Or possibly left and was happy about their choice etc?  :thought
-

I'm a little late to this thread, but I was in a similar situation.  I had no trouble meeting and dating girls, but my longer relationships were with girls I was less attracted to (they were less attractive relatively speaking) but I got along great with.  When I met my eventual wife, I convinced myself she checked that additional box (amazing looks) that the girls I walked away from didn't.  This caused me to overlook some pretty bright    

I rushed into it, even though I had no good reason to do so.  Although I see now that some of that was driven by her jealousy and her situation (she had a bad living situation initially (which was #1) and moved in with me after about 5 months of dating.)

I don't know what I would do differently, but some advice I wish I would've received:

- Things won't "get better when you get married."  in fact they will get worse

- marriage is not a solution to problems that come about during a relationship

- if something seems "off" or "uncomfortable" ... .imagine that times 100 when you're married and now stuck with someone

- if you aren't generally at ease with someone while dating, and you resolve conflicts with acrimonious fights or arguments, consider how contentious it will be when the honeymoon is over.  that's when thoughts of "this is permanent... .? OH SH... .!" will make both parties react more intensely toward eachother during conflicts.

- and if that's not bad enough, imagine you have a kid together.  Now ON TOP OF all the conflicts you have with her, there's the not-insignificant one of "Who will take care of the child right now."  If you're not able to resolve minor disagreements cordially, you will really struggle over this one with her.  and now it impacts a third person, and a very vulnerable one at that.

[Confusedpe]

- lucky jim, glad u are in a better place now and have saved yourself...

- cat familiar, I think I’m dealing with a comorbid BPD/npd ... .the fear of abandonment was what confirmed the BPD status over NPD

- petewitsend, u make some great points I must admit, I haven’t bothered getting back with her because I have thought about all those things. Losing assets/money/materials is meaningless compared to losing a child, the children factor is what really done it for me.

[Confusedpe]

Got a text yesterday that was very infuriating

Got told ‘my physiologist once told me that I love u more than I love myself and that I have to learn to love and respect myself first before I can let go of u’

Makes u wonder what was really discussed during those sessions, seems like typical BPD lies to make herself out to somehow be the helpless victim

[formflier]

I hope you didn't get drawn into a discussion or response to that text.

How often do you get texts like that?

FF

[Confusedpe]

I hope you didn't get drawn into a discussion or response to that text.

How often do you get texts like that?

FF

I did, I get it daily, that was a first but I am bombarded daily

I know better, but I’m always drawn into defending myself

[PeteWitsend]

Got a text yesterday that was very infuriating

Got told ‘my physiologist once told me that I love u more than I love myself and that I have to learn to love and respect myself first before I can let go of u’

Makes u wonder what was really discussed during those sessions, seems like typical BPD lies to make herself out to somehow be the helpless victim

When I did marriage counseling with my wife, typically I'd go in and mention a thing or two my wife did, along with objective steps she could take that would make me feel better.  E.g. "You did this when we were out with our kids, and it's not the first time, I think it's unfair and upsetting to all concerned and if you are really as 'troubled by XYZ and just want to discuss it,' you could approach it in a non-accusatory, non-insulting way, when we get home."

Whereas when it was her turn to speak, she would race into a rambling, disjointed, narrative of all the things I or my family did or said to her over four years of marriage, getting the dates and times all confused.  All counselors would seem to recognize she was "a little off" at that point, and stop her at some and say "I'm hearing you're upset; tell me what can he do to make it better?"

inevitably it would be some vague, impossible to meet standard like "he just needs to love me more" or "I need to see he's completely committed to this marriage."

it would become apparent who  was starting trouble.  But if "one side of the story" isn't there, you can imagine how it goes... . 

I suspect when she went to therapy/counseling by herself, it was the same.  Everything was my fault; if I would just be better, she could be happy.  without hearing my side of the story, most therapists have only her comments to go on.  and I suspect further that some therapists spend more time "validating" than they do "analyzing" because validation means they'll keep coming back... .criticizing them or suggesting they hold themselves accountable results in the pwBPD leaving and finding a new T.

before we were a couple, she told me about how she saw a therapist, and it sounds like the same thing, only then her parents were the bad influence in her life.  

pwBPD simply deflect all the time.  it's never their fault; their actions and behaviors are always someone else's doing.

You just need to ignore their words and try to address what may ultimately be troubling them.  But in your case, you don't need to respond at all!  it's just a text message.  Ignore it!

It's not easy staying out of their "pull"... .they can say some really insane, and infuriating things.  You just need to reassure yourself that they're only words, and ignore them.

In my experience, no need to be concerned about public appearances; most people can tell who the crazy one is!  You don't need to "correct the record"... .just move on.

[formflier]

 You don't need to "correct the record"... .just move on.

There is enormous wisdom in this!

Also, when you look at this story about MC... .it illustrates that "facts" aren't the issue... .the issue is feelings.  The feelings will jumble the facts.

There are times when facts are facts and it just has to be... .whatever can be done to keep focus on feelings and let facts take care of themselves, is likely a positive step forward for "stability" in a relationship.

Said another way... time spent debating facts is rarely productive.  Time spent understanding feelings "underneath" or "driving" the debate is usually very productive.

FF

[ozmatoz]

I did, I get it daily, that was a first but I am bombarded daily

I know better, but I’m always drawn into defending myself

This, is SO hard.  This is where I struggle most.  I think texting is the worst thing in the world when embroiled with a pwBPD.
It feeds into their need for never ending validation.  Its like a drug for them.  "I feel xyz so I'll text s/o right now and get the "fix" I need."

One of the things that I have been doing lately is to read the text and then lock the screen prior to replying.  Even that 2 second pause can sometime be enough to catch myself from responding with something that will fuel the fire.  The more I do it the more I've found that I can actually just put it away and not reply.  Sometimes I read/lock 4 or 5 times, but eventually whatever emotion she stirred in me has burned out enough for me to move on and ignore it.

"You don't need to "correct the record"... .just move on."
Thanks Pete! I'll echo FF.  Huge wisdom here.  I live in a small tight nit community where everyone knows mostly everyone and most folks know my wife far better than me.  This has been a huge fear of mine that I've been working on.  One thing that works for me is any time I have a positive interaction with someone in town I take a step back and say "What did my wife have to do with this positive interaction?"  The answer is nothing.  The interaction was positive because of how I conducted myself and the personality that I presented.  These are under my control.  The more of these interactions I have that are positive go a long way for correcting the record on its own.  I don't need to do anything about it.

-Oz

[Lucky Jim]

One of the things that I have been doing lately is to read the text and then lock the screen prior to replying.  Even that 2 second pause can sometime be enough to catch myself from responding with something that will fuel the fire.  The more I do it the more I've found that I can actually just put it away and not reply.  Sometimes I read/lock 4 or 5 times, but eventually whatever emotion she stirred in me has burned out enough for me to move on and ignore it.

Hello again, Oz, Excellent report!  Well done.  Yes, it's a huge help to pause in order to consider whether a response is actually called for.  More often than not, no reply is needed.  Or if a reply is necessary, it's usually preferable to delay any knee-jerk response.  So keep up the good work.

I'm no longer married to my BPDxW, but we lived in a small, tightly-knit community, too.  Like you, I had many positive interactions with local folk that had nothing to do with my Ex.  After our separation and divorce, I let go of my need to "set the record straight" and let my actions stand on their own.  As one older friend related later, people are not dumb and they took the stuff my Ex said about me with a grain of salt.  I felt better after hearing that. 

Rather than get drawn into defending yourself and participating in a JADE-fest, I suggest, as standard practice, that you decline to engage.

LJ

[DaddyBear77]

I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.