The timing of this couldn't be worse

[livednlearned]

I doubt if she will admit that she has a drug problem.

This may gain traction.

Family law courts like it when addicts admit to the addiction because then they can focus on solutions.

My ex would tell the judge he wasn't an addict because he quit 18 times and only started drinking/using when he wanted to...

The self rationalizations of an addict are pretty interesting when you hear them stated out loud.

I think she’s in denial about the gravity of what she did when she threw two remotes at my son and I.

In many states, using an object to harm someone is what escalates the offense.

If she gets a good L, she'll be encouraged to take responsibility and admit she has a problem with drugs/rage. She sees the error of her ways and wants to get into treatment and become a better mom.

That probably won't go over well with RWw so she'll either get rid of her attorney, represent herself, shop for other attorneys, or agree to say x in front of the judge and then in an outburst say y.

You may find that obstruction and stonewalling are the norm, although that can work in your favor if you start with something favorable that protects your son (like you have with the PO).

One tactic that can also work well with family law court is to structure your request as a reasonable solution that places responsibility on RWw. "

RWw will agree to drug testing at ______clinic by day/date, performed by Dr. ________. And she will agree to sign up for Parenting Class and Anger Management Class at _____ place by day/date. After completion of both we can reconvene and discuss things going forward."

That way you have in place what you need while she tries to pull herself together and any changes are based on her ability to get well.

Lawyers don't do a great job at closing the loopholes because those loopholes are financially beneficial. There is no pain for them if you have to come back again and again. So better to structure things so that RWw has clear and plain actions she must accomplish before xyz can happen. That closes a loophole and saves you money.

For example, a judge could say, "Let's reconvene in 60 days" which ok, sure. But if this repeats over and over, you're just back in court in a sort of arbitrary hopeful way that costs you money for things RWw has set into motion.

Better to communicate the consequences for actions, both good and bad, in the legal language. Fewer surprises that way and you get more traction in driving this thing than the lawyer who has no problem going back to court.

[RestlessWanderer]

This is something I will definitely pursue.

I must say that this is starting to feel more and more right. The fact that it’s been two weeks that I haven’t had to hear a laundry list of my faults (many of which are made up) feels really good. I’ve been much more patient with my son, which is important now more than ever.

I spent some time this afternoon visiting with my neighbors. I grew up with their kids, and have always been considered part of their family. It was nice to hear confirmation of what I knew they would say. They weren’t surprised that things had gotten to this point. They had gotten glimpses of RWw’s anger over the years. They were very supportive of my decisions and shared some of the very similar events in their son’s first marriage.

I’ve been transcribing the recordings I made of RWw and our son talking during their court appointed calls. These are going to be evidence for the hearing next week. Anyway, it’s been hard but reaffirmed to hear these things again.

[formflier]

What kind of things does she say in those meetings, that you think will be helpful for you?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

I was curious about the same thing.

[I Am Redeemed]

Are you talking about her promises to bring gifts or suggestions that you and S can meet her so he can get his gifts?

To me, that reads like her trying to use your son to manipulate you into breaking the RO and the court may see it that way, too, though whether they will act on it is a different story.

However, if she has supervised visits and tries that during them, the supervisor may intervene in that type of communication or report it to the court.

[RestlessWanderer]

I made a log of 31 separate violations of the TPO in the first week. My L advised me on this process, so I’m not flying blind. The list consists of several calls to my phone, my moms phone, voicemails, text messages, three times she broke the 100yd limit (twice to leave packages), during the three calls with our son, and the morning she forced way past my mom into the house. During the calls with my son she ranged from promising to get gifts to him, either by bringing them up, leaving them outside her house, or even telling him we could go for them so she could give him a hug. She also couldn’t help from telling him that I was being mean, stupid, acting dumb, doing what my mom said, called me lazy and selfish, told him it wasn’t right that he was having to ask me for his gifts.
I didn’t bother to count each individual thing in the phone calls. My list was made up of 31 separate violations, including the three calls. This should compel the judge to grant the PO due to her blatant disregard for the restrictions set forth in the TPO.
Based on what she tried to say during the initial hearing last week, before the judge muted her, I think she’s going to try to contest my accusation in my statement that I fear she’s using again. She also started to accuse me of tampering with her internet.

Thankfully the judge had already indicated that we are to start the process for the supervised visits. It seems that this may be a slow process. 

[formflier]

I made a log of 31 separate violations of the TPO in the first week. My L advised me on this process, so I’m not flying blind. 

Sounds like you are in professional hands and I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. 

So transcripts go in and also you send in the recording or is the recording just available if for some reason the transcripts are challenged.

Also, can you/have you had a follow up conversation about the trespassing issue/no trespassing letter from your Mom to your pwBPD? 

From where I sit it is certainly more minor that the TPO/PO, yet I think it should be explicitly discussed with your L (or perhaps he may not be able to advise your Mom).  Because if she is the property owner, technically the trespass issue is her thing and not yours.

Hopefully your L is able to understand that these issues...while separate...are "interdependent" and need to be considered together to provide a unified front to the court.

In a related but longer term issue...the status of your wife staying in your Mom's trailer on your Mom's property.

When is the hearing again?   

How is your self care?  What are you doing to stay strong?

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

We are submitting the recordings and transcripts as part of the evidence, 31 individual pieces. We’re only going to have 30 minutes for the hearing, unless something changes. Our respective attorneys are trying to work out some visitations with a neutral 3rd party. This may delay the hearing yet again. It also appears RWw is attempting to file a counter PO claiming she was abused by me. This now creates a possibility that the judge will throw out both orders, but that remains to be seen.

Tomorrow morning we are to have an expedited priority consultation. From what I understand (but I am very uncertain about this) this is to determine some level of psychological fitness as parents. But I’m really not sure. I’ll learn more this evening. My attorney pushed for this and feels it will benefit me. She basically told me to prepare for whatever RWw my try to accuse me of. We’re planning on discussing it later.

Regarding the trespassing, as of now she is permitted to be in our home. This will remain unchanged for now. However it will be a topic for the divorce settlement.

As for my mental health and self care, I’m doing my best to stay positive and not dwell on the negative unknowns related to all of this. Work started back up again yesterday and I’ve been taking care of some errands. This helps me to keep distracted during parts of the day. But the time I’ve been free from the constant barrage of negativity and fearing more emotional attacks is so freeing in itself. That is probably the single biggest factor in feeling good over the last few weeks.

[formflier]

Is it your home or your Mom's home?

I'm really less concern about her being in there, than being in your Mom's home where you and your child are and knocking your Mom over (somehow pushing past) to get inside, when the owner of the home explicitly said she was unwelcome.

That is a legal issue between the homeowner and the  trespasser.

That being said courts often look at these things as one issue.

Plus, with the possibility that both POs get thrown out, a no trespassing letter and perhaps a charge filed with the magistrate by your Mom..could potentially matter.

All this being said, my goal is to get you to discuss this with your attorney.

I will say that she seems very proactive on the issues directly relating to you.   I'm a fan of what I have seen so far.

Best,

FF

[defogging]

In my jurisdiction a TPO has to be supported by evidence, hopefully it's the same in yours.  My ex tried to get one (we think) but for some weird reason just sent a fake one to my family instead of filing for one.  My lawyer guessed that she tried to get her lawyer to file one but had nothing to back it up so her lawyer wouldn't.  I read what was in it, it was full of some really crazy stuff that painted me as a stalker and abuser.  Of course none of it was true.

My point being that I think you're still on solid ground with the PO.  If you have evidence the courts will hopefully still take yours seriously, even if another TPO is attempted that is backed up by nothing.

[ForeverDad]

Courts are not surprised when there is conflict and heightened tensions.  That's why people can file for protection orders.  Most such protection orders are temporary.

I had two against my then-spouse in two different courts.  She had one against me.  After a few continuances - hearings - they were dismissed.  No, actually she filed another too.  It was settled that we would stay apart for several months except for child exchanges.  I concluded court figured it was not serious enough to merit longer action.

Your case may be more actionable than mine.  Time will tell what the court decides.  But make your case well.  You are in a strong position now, stronger than most fathers start, to get the best parenting order possible.  If you let it slip though your fingers now, it will be hard to regain it later.

How your son was impacted and how his future looks may have more impact on the court than how she hurt or behaved toward you.  You're an adult, court will be inclined to show more concern for a defenseless child.

Remember that you're not there to be mean.  On the other hand, don't think that if you're overly-fair that it will gain points with the court, there is a truism here...

The person who is behaving poorly seldom gets consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets credit.

[I Am Redeemed]

Instead of a no trespassing notice,  you might consider asking your mother to consider filing her own RO. Forcible entry into an elderly women's home should be grounds for that.

[formflier]

And...make sure you read your state statute about no trespassing. 

I have lived in some states where there was a dramatic difference in level of misdemeanor offense if a formal notice was given and then blown off.

Then another level of offense is property was also marked.

The an another level if formal notice was given AND property marked.

I'm aware that there are states where those details don't matter.

Please read yours and come to a plain English interpretation.  Then have your lawyer confirm your interpretation.

Oh...and there was yet another level of trespass for entering a building such as an open garage, then another for entering a building with a door.

Then I think if the door was locked, perhaps that is when it became "breaking and entering".

So...lots of nuance that may or may not matter.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Is it your home or your Mom's home?

I'm really less concern about her being in there, than being in your Mom's home where you and your child are and knocking your Mom over (somehow pushing past) to get inside, when the owner of the home explicitly said she was unwelcome.

That is a legal issue between the homeowner and the  trespasser.

That being said courts often look at these things as one issue.

Plus, with the possibility that both POs get thrown out, a no trespassing letter and perhaps a charge filed with the magistrate by your Mom..could potentially matter.

All this being said, my goal is to get you to discuss this with your attorney.

I will say that she seems very proactive on the issues directly relating to you.   I'm a fan of what I have seen so far.

Best,

FF

FF I think I see what you’re getting at. Since it was my moms home where RWw pushed her way in, and my S and I were in the house at the time (and still are) I see the importance of the trespassing issue. As long as we’re here, the PO provides that protection. As far as pressing charges, that probably won’t happen considering the police were called when that happened and did nothing.

[formflier]

As far as pressing charges, that probably won’t happen considering the police were called when that happened and did nothing.

I'm 99% positive that if you had insisted the police do something they would have refused, insisting instead you file with the magistrate, then the police would act on what the magistrate says.  

In my county the only time I'm aware of police acting is when a police (or deputy) had personally given a no trespassing order and a person was blowing that off in the presence of an officer.  Other than that, people are told to take it to the magistrate.

As to you "getting it".  

You are starting to see it.

Trespass and a PO are different legal matters.

You have no standing on the trespass issue. (since you don't own or control the property)

Your Mom has no standing on the PO issue.

Your thread has been on my mind for a while and especially something that I Am Redeemed said...and also something ForeverDad said.

1.  FD first:  You are in a good position, don't be nice...don't gift away your power.

2.  IAR:  Your wife physically pushed her way over, past, through a smaller elderly person that clearly said she was not welcome in her home.  (yes I have always realized this, yet there was something about the way she said it..or I read it)

It's one thing to enter those details into the court record as "evidence" that may or may not influence another matter.

It's an entirely different thing to enter and get a result (say guilty verdict on trespassing).

So it's two years from now and the court is evaluating the behavior of two parties.

1.  He testifies she was mean to his Mom..Mom testifies to this as well.

compared to

2.  A court of law found her guilty of a class xx misdemeanor.

Note..there is no guarantee of a guilty result, but if the matter is not pursued at all...you are guaranteed to NOT get a guilty result.

Your L may have other opinions on this matter, I'm sure he can advise and explain.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Thanks FF. I will talk to my L about this for sure.

This morning I was interviewed by a representative of the courts in what ISS called a priority consultation. This rep acts as the eyes and ears of the judge. He spoke to me then my wife, then with me again. The main takeaways were the addiction needs to be addressed, be it through proving that there is none through testing, or through a treatment program. Next was addressing the violence and anger. If the former persists then the latter will as well, regardless of what may be underlying. He is likely to recommend supervised visitations. His role was strictly in regards to the safety and security of our son. He surmised that my motives were in this context as well, and not an effort to spite my wife or deny her the right to continue as a mother to our son.

[worriedStepmom]

That sounds like good news!

My own experience with SD's uBPDmom trespassing at our house.  I wrote mom a letter, signed by H and I (the homeowners) that she was not welcome on our property and we would call the police and have her arrested for trespassing if she came back.  She brought a cop with her at the next child exchange.  Cop said they would not arrest her for being on the same property as her kid (with no restraining orders) BUT they would escort her from the property if I called and she refused to leave.

The police assumption was that mom would be there for a well check of her kid, that mom could ask the police to check on the kid, and that if mom did this multiple times with nothing actually wrong with the kid, "well, then, we'll know where the problem really is".

Cop did not write up this conversation - I called the precinct and tried to get notes for court  

[formflier]

Cop said they would not arrest her for being on the same property as her kid (with no restraining orders) BUT they would escort her from the property if I called and she refused to leave.

This is exactly what I would expect.

This also gives me an idea about how RW might go about deciding (and his L deciding) if the trespass charge is worth pushing.

Go get copies of the police report from all the incidents so far.

If it is clear in those reports that RWwife pushed her way over a small elderly lady to get into the house, then I'm much less interested in pursuing the trespass issue.

However, if there are no details there.  Then I would be much MORE interested in RW elderly Mom pushing for the magistrate to file a charge, even if it kinda goes sidways or nowhere.

Many times a magistrate will "put in on hold" and say something like, "If I don't see you back here for a year...I'll put this charge in the round file."

Best,

FF