So I sent an e-mail to his ex...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Sort of cancelled on a party of one of his best friends today.

He replied: "Trouble wit x?"

"Yeah".

He called me to check how I was doing. That he hasn't seen bf like this ever before, that he changed a lot. I explained bf cheated a few weeks ago. And then the best friend told that he has done that a lot. That in his memory, he also cheated on the ex before me. And dBPDbf has promised me that he didn't, that he cheated when he was younger, but that he hadn't done it for a long time. He also said he broke up with her.

Well that now seems to be untrue. And at the verge of a very difficult restart, I really want to get the facts straight. So I e-mailed her, from woman-to-woman... said I hoped she was doing okay and that I understand if she won't respond. I asked her if she knows he cheated on her, that I know the decision is mine but that I'm looking for information and answers.

I was wondering: what would I do if a next bf would e-mail me in the future, after this all ended? I think, from a woman-to-woman point of view, I would tell her my story and then tell her to take her own decision. I wonder what will happen.

Don't know if the fact that friends do not recognize him anymore, is because he is going through something and really changing... or that it is getting worse. 

[ziniztar]

Sort of cancelled on a party of one of his best friends today.

He replied: "Trouble wit x?"

"Yeah".

He called me to check how I was doing. That he hasn't seen bf like this ever before, that he changed a lot. I explained bf cheated a few weeks ago. And then the best friend told that he has done that a lot. That in his memory, he also cheated on the ex before me. And dBPDbf has promised me that he didn't, that he cheated when he was younger, but that he hadn't done it for a long time. He also said he broke up with her.

Well that now seems to be untrue. And at the verge of a very difficult restart, I really want to get the facts straight. So I e-mailed her, from woman-to-woman... said I hoped she was doing okay and that I understand if she won't respond. I asked her if she knows he cheated on her, that I know the decision is mine but that I'm looking for information and answers.

I was wondering: what would I do if a next bf would e-mail me in the future, after this all ended? I think, from a woman-to-woman point of view, I would tell her my story and then tell her to take her own decision. I wonder what will happen.

Don't know if the fact that friends do not recognize him anymore, is because he is going through something and really changing... or that it is getting worse. 

[LooceyBlue]

I've thought of doing this. I know how to contact my gf's ex. If I did it, I would approach it as you did - just to get some insight and find out if there's any pattern to her behaviour. I'm wondering if anyone else on the board has done this and what was the result? Was it helpful? Was it a bad idea?

[Rise]

I'm not saying that it's going to be a bad thing in every single case. Everyone's situation is unique. Some of our exes' exes are going to be fine talking to us. Others are going to want nothing to do with us, and for some, contact from us is going to be very damaging to their own healing process. Just keep in mind how many of us here resent and dislike our replacements for no other reason than they are our replacements, and how many of would be hurt by hearing from the next guy or girl. As I said, it may be fine in your case, but before you reach out, just put some thought into it. And be prepared for the possibility that the other guy/girl may not be so open to talking about their ex.

[sweetheart]

Hello ziniztar,

Your post brought up a lot of questions for me, none of which I expect answers to... .

1. What happens if your bf has lied and cheated more extensively in his past ?

2. Are you going to tell your bf that you have done this, either way how do you think he would feel if he knew and what impact might that have for your rs?

3. How would you feel if the situation was reversed ?

4. What will you gain from this ?

My thoughts on your decision to follow through with this is that in some way your actions could be seen perceived as mirroring the deceit that your bf has brought to  bear within your rs.

When I have read your posts ziniztar your emotional process and rationale for your behaviours has come across as authentic and true. This action jarred within me when I read it.

[ziniztar]

The one thing we have left is his honesty. It's even something he said "at least I have my honesty, as nothing else seems to be left".

When his best friend of over 10 year's tells me he did not break up, but she did, that would be lie no1. The friend was also quite strong about him having cheated on her and other bf's several times, like it's a pattern. He used to tell that friend he had spent the night with another girl "but nothing happened".

I've asked him on numerous occasions whether he has cheated more, even before this all happened, and his answer is still that the last time he cheated was over 10 year's ago.

I've been with a guy before that was a pathological liar, it was very painful an cost me year's to heal from it. I can deal or want to learn to deal with dysregulations. I REFUSE to deal with repetitive lying and cheating. If this is true, I feel I had the full right to do this. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

[clljhns]

I did not contact the exes, they contacted me. The first ex-wife contacted me when she and ex were getting a divorce. I really didn't want to talk with her and get involved in their drama. She insisted that she had some paperwork to show me. I met her at a diner and she showed me documents that exNPD had cashed out almost $750,000 in stocks while they were married. He owed me over $25,000 in back child-support. She discussed the marriage, his drug abuse, gambling, violent behavior, and constant cheating. Sounded like listening to my own marriage to him. After I filed for divorce from husband number three, his ex-wife called me. Several times. I guess she felt the need to share what she went through with him for 20 years. She recounted pretty much the same experiences I had with soon to be ex-Bi-Polar. While he was threatening towards me, he did not hit me, as he had her. It was shocking, but validating.

I came to understand that we all shared similar experiences with these disturbed men. So, while, I didn't call them, it did offer more proof that they were incapable of a loving, healthy relationship. It didn't relieve me, however, of my anguish over having chosen two men of this nature. I actually felt doomed to always attracting men like this in my life.

Really didn't need them to tell me about their own experiences, as there was no way I would have ever entertained going back with either one of the men.

[ziniztar]

In some way I am happy to read this happens more. Sorry to read about your experiences cllhns. She didn't respond and I mailed after a day 'never mind, I should not have done that.' So I guess nothing will come out of it except me feeling guilty for having crossed a line.

The weird thing is, today he came clean, out of nowhere.

He said he liked seeing me happy again. And then:

"There is a pattern. Not in the way you think there is, but I do tend to superquickly get involved right after there is a break-up, or an imminent one." He explained more about what he had done to previous gf's, because they broke up and he felt confused. My T explained he is probably looking for comfort.

So, in a sense, something was right. I am happy he told me. He feels really bad for having told me. "Now you will use that against me." "I'll promise you I won't when you give me no reason to," "yeah ok, but you CAN."

There's something about his sense of trust in other people and how safe he feels that is off...

[clljhns]

ziniztar,

It is great that he recognizes the pattern. What does he plan to do about this? Has he seen a T for this? Glad he told you the truth.

All the best.

[ziniztar]

Thanks.

He is in therapy for already 1,5 years. He is currently 'stuck' and discussing other options with his T. Has a new appointment with a psycho therapist on Tuesday. I think it's normal in therapy that people get stuck, so I'm happy he doesn't quit but tries something else on top of it. He's not quitting his first T... .so... lot's of stuff happening. I think he has been very disappointed in himself too that this happened again. Maybe that disappointment and me giving him a chance to learn from his mistakes and to grow, are the things that will make him change stuff for the better now.

[clljhns]

ziniztar,

Good to hear that you both are working hard on yourselves, while supporting each other. Onward and upward!

[FoolishMan]

The one thing we have left is his honesty. It's even something he said "at least I have my honesty, as nothing else seems to be left".

When his best friend of over 10 year's tells me he did not break up, but she did, that would be lie no1. The friend was also quite strong about him having cheated on her and other bf's several times, like it's a pattern. He used to tell that friend he had spent the night with another girl "but nothing happened".

I've asked him on numerous occasions whether he has cheated more, even before this all happened, and his answer is still that the last time he cheated was over 10 year's ago.

I've been with a guy before that was a pathological liar, it was very painful an cost me year's to heal from it. I can deal or want to learn to deal with dysregulations. I REFUSE to deal with repetitive lying and cheating. If this is true, I feel I had the full right to do this. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Why involve an innocent party? Seriously you think you have the right to ask this person if they knew they had been cheated on? I'd be pretty upset by a message like that potentially opening up old wounds. Cheating requires a level of dishonesty that casts doubt on lots of other actions. Don't stoop to that level unless you are already on good terms with the person. Just my 2 cents.

[goldylamont]

if his friend for 10 years is telling you he is a serial cheater i think this is the best evidence you have. i don't think you were wrong for trying to reach out to his ex, although this is a sticky situation and if your bf finds out it can come back to haunt you.

in your current r/s, does your ex often accuse you of cheating or wanting to be with other men? if so, this very well can be projection because in actuality he often cheats and wants to be with other women. projecting was one of the most difficult things for me to understand and i think it was a full year after my r/s ended that i realized this about my ex--she was overly jealous because she assumed that i was as dishonest and hot in the pants as her. this is how i see it. i will say that i don't have any evidence of her actually cheating, yet i have too many examples (not just with me, but things other ex-friends of hers have experienced) to not at least think it was a possibility. actually, it would explain a lot.

i wouldn't take his partial admission about moving on quickly between exes as a sign that he is now becoming more honest. to me this sounds like he's giving you something small to deal with so he doesn't have to tell the full truth. if being with a serial cheater and liar is your boundary for leaving you will never, ever be able to trust anything he says especially since he broke down all your trust only a few weeks ago.

i haven't gotten a chance to read your previous posts, but how did your bf behave towards you during the cheating, before you found out? when you did find out did he devalue you more or did he show remorse? do you feel like his remorse was genuine if he showed any? << these questions are very subjective, but meant to be. with so much dishonesty in the air your most vital tool is your gut and your instinct. your brain can be used to try and piece together what sparse facts you may be able find, but you must start trusting your gut (enteric nervous system, or 'second brain' to bring awareness to things you already may know.

[ziniztar]

Goldylamont, ti's funny you bring that up. My gut feeling says he is honest now. I knew there was something but he was always vague. Things were good this weekend, he didn't need to start this conversation. And he's actually quite good at avoiding conversations like this.

He told me immediately, it only happened once. I've noticed he is drawn towards other girls' attention when he and I aren't doing well. He needs acceptance from others as he can't give it to himself, his self image is horrifyingly black.

With that previous bf that was a serial liar, my gut feeling was always right. He only acts this way when I get controlling, demanding and manipulative (a true insight thanks to my T). What I've decided to do is change my behaviour and see if I ever get into situations of periods where I fear he will be cheating. Funny enough, now that I'm trying to avoid enmeshment he actually makes more effort to be with me > less criticism from me > less reason to look for comfort and acceptance elsewhere. I know I'm not the one that made him cheat, I do know my controlling behaviour sure didn't help.

About projection... he was jealous but always encouraged me to do my own things. In all honesty I think I was projecting my thoughts and fears onto him, checking FB accounts and phones long before the cheating happened...