Daughter was arrested (part 2)

[crazedncrazymom]

I really appreciate all of you and your advice and suggestions. I need to be told like it is on occassion to make me realize that I might be handling something wrong, etc. When you're in it, it's sometimes hard to see what's really going on. And I guess I'm a creature of habit from being with my exh from the time I was 15 until I was 38, who has similiar "traits" as DD.

You are in an impossible situation!  You feel like you are doing everything possible to get this child under control and nothing is working.  You must be feeling pretty out of control yourself and exhausted and everything else!  When did you say the court date will be?  I hope the judge will help you get her into a treatment center.  I think that may  be your only hope.  Honestly, it does take 2 to make a healthy relationship.  She has to want to make it work too and she just doesn't care.  Also, I think it would do you a world of good to have some time apart without the craziness so that you can have some peace for awhile.  I remember Matt saying earlier in the other thread that you can work with the DA to make sure the alternative is so harsh that she will gladly sign herself into a treatment center.  

Keep taking care of yourself and ask your dh for help.  

-crazed  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Hi. Sorry I've been MIA for a while. Lots going on with my mom. I'm taking things day by day. That's all I can do. No court date set yet. I'll be on when I can. Thanks.  

[pessim-optimist]

Take good care of yourself, and let us know when things settle down a bit, ok?

[raytamtay3]

Hi all. I needed to take a break from everything related to my DD's disorder. But now I'm back because I received the summons yesterday for the second arrest (aggrevated assault). Turns out we make too much for a public defender AND HAVE TO get an attorney on our dime. Lovely. We haven't received the summons for the first arrest (possession) yet. This kid is literally putting us in the poor house! Merry Christmas to me!

[pessim-optimist]

Yikes! I am so sorry to hear that... . 

I am not saying that you should do this, but do you have an option to NOT get an attorney at all? Are there any other options? Would the juvenial hall have someone you can talk to about your options as a parent in these situations?

[raytamtay3]

Yikes! I am so sorry to hear that... . 

I am not saying that you should do this, but do you have an option to NOT get an attorney at all? Are there any other options? Would the juvenial hall have someone you can talk to about your options as a parent in these situations?

No, we don't have the option to not get her one. I asked. But because she is a minor and it's a 4th degree offense, by law, we must.

[peaceplease]

raytamtay3,

I am sorry for what you are going through.  That is awful that you are required to get her an attorney!  That does not seem fair to you! 

Your ex husband should be responsible for half of the fee, right?

[raytamtay3]

Nope because I have full legal and physical custody. I'm responsible. Plus he cries poor all the time.

IDC, I'm still excited about X-mas and want to use this icon thingy. .  

[raytamtay3]

I was given a listing of court appointed attorneys who don't require a retainer upfront, and will do a payment plan.  There goes my tax refund. But on the bright side, at least I'll have it to use. Postive thinking Tam, positive thinking... .

[mggt]

      thinking of you and praying all goes well for you   

[peaceplease]

I was given a listing of court appointed attorneys who don't require a retainer upfront, and will do a payment plan.  There goes my tax refund. But on the bright side, at least I'll have it to use. Postive thinking Tam, positive thinking... .

 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

So the agenda today is to contact the listing of attorneys I was given. To explain the challenges of my DD and to ask that they push for a court order for her to attend a dual RTC for long term care. Our caseworker we've been with for the inhome treatment is coming to court with us in January to push same.

I'm going to explain everything that's been going on for the past few years including the 3 stints at BHC, her many diagnoses over the course of a few years, her behavorial problems at home, in  school and in the community, her lack of responsibility, her refusal to obey any and all rules, her disregard for all authority figures, her two prior disordly conducts for fire setting in PA (her and a friend lit some leaves on fire at a park and the other time was for cursing out a police officer) for which she served community service, her verbal and aggressive abuse, her drug taking, lying, stealing, etc.

Any other suggestions?

[crazedncrazymom]

Sounds like you have it all under control.  It's wonderful that you have a plan and sound very clear about the direction.

-crazed

[co.jo]

Do you think it would be a good idea to mention the person she is behind the illness- some positives about who she could be, so they see it is worth looking for healing over punishment or incarceration?

[raytamtay3]

Update: We are due to meet with an attorney on Dec. 27. I laid everything out for him and then asked what he though our chances were of getting it court ordered to have her placed in a RTC. He said well it will depend on the judge, the recources we've taken, my daughter's willingness to participate and the fact that she was prescribed, but doesn't take medication. What I heard was: The judge will probably give her probation. Which she will fail for either testing postive for drugs or some other requirement she won't follow, and then she'll either go to Juvi or maybe THEN they'll decide a RTC. Sorry. I just don't feel good about this.

[MammaMia]

Ray

Miracles do happen.  I hope you get a judge who will see the value in helping your dd with RTC.

Stay strong.

[raytamtay3]

Do you think it would be a good idea to mention the person she is behind the illness- some positives about who she could be, so they see it is worth looking for healing over punishment or incarceration?

Yes, and I always do. I said she is a smart, talented, beautiful girl who needs help to find her way.

[crumblingdad]

This was how we got our DD17 into RTC.  She was refusing and it was only the threat of juvenile detention or RTC that convinced her to get started.  It took the very difficult task of standing up in court and telling the judge that if she comes home she will continue to sneak out, continue to put herself and others at risk with her drug use and that she's safer in detention if she doesn't accept RTC as an option.

The judge was very willing and the prosecutors were also more then willing to all agree on this arrangement.  Typically in the juvenile courts the focus is far more on finding rehab and proper help then once you hit the adult criminal system.

[raytamtay3]

It just never ends! Yesterday my mother had a Dr.'s appointment for which my SIL took her. So that meant DD was alone in the house. She knows we have cameras. She knows we have one facing my mother's room and she knows she is not allowed in my mother's room. I told my mom to shut her door when she left. I can't trust mother with key because she is not of sound mind... .

My DH called me yesterday to inform me that in reviewing the recording, he saw DD enter my mother's room, shut the door and stay in there for over a half hour. I questioned her later asking if she wanted to explain to me what she was doing in her grandmother's room for over a 1/2 hour. Her excuse was she was charging her phone on my mother's charger because she couldn't find her own and that my mother told her she can't take it from her room, so she was texting her friends while it was charging... .We locked up all of my mother's controlled substance medication. However, it is in a safe in my mother's room. There is a lock box also in my mother's room with a code on it. In the lock box was a key to the safe that the hospice people had code to in order to lock up any medications they brought in or needed to take out for my mother. The key is gone... .the code was hidden in a drawer of my mother's room for the hospice people.  I went through the contents of the safe, which includes about 8 bottles of Xanax and pain killers. I could not account for anything being missing because I never counted the contents.

DD was not home when DH and I got home and we combed her room looking for meds., the key or anything else that she could have maybe gotten from my mother's room. We found a small white pill on her floor... .so we took out my mother's pills and tried to compare. It did not match the xanax or the pain pills. It matched a water pill... .We watched the video further. DD took out my mothers charger out of her room and was charging it in the living room. Not my mother's room as she claimed... .

Lastnight DD came home beyond messed up. She could barely open her eyes. Clearly under the influence which she pretty much always is every night now. After she passed out on the sofa, I took her purse to go through it. Low and behold, she had a gold ring and gold necklace that she stole from my mother's jewlery box. I took them and plan on confronting her today.

So this morning I get in to my car to come to work. What do I see laying on the floor of the passenger side? Her cell. So I read her messages... .there is a conversation between her and a boy. It talks about my daughter supplying xanax to this boy and him paying her for it. Then the boy states how it didn't work. Daughter said give it time. The boy replied it still didn't work but I'll still pay you.

Burnt out. :'(

[raytamtay3]

Oh and to add insult to injury. When my DD came out of the BHC a few weeks ago, she showed me this ring she liked in a magazine. It has a cross on it with a couple tiny diamonds and inscribed with "You'll Never Walk Alone" on it. So I bought it for her for Xmas. It cost $100. Now I'm wondering if I should return it. Because she will probably just hock it anyway.  :'(

[crazedncrazymom]

Oh raytamtay,   

You sound so exhausted.  I am so sorry you're going through this after everything else.  You must be feeling so many emotions right now.  Do you have a plan for confronting her with these items?  Think about how she normally reacts when you confront her and how you can react in a way to help the situation progress and come to a resolution. 

What do you want out of the situation?

What can you realistically get out of the situation?

How will you react if she escalates, leaves the house or says she doesn't care?

How can you prevent her from going into your mother's room in the future?

The best way I've found to have these type of confrontations is to have a plan.  I wish you all the best and hope this all works out for you.  Keep us updated when you have time.

-crazed

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[swampped]

Dear raytamtay:  No bright ideas from this corner, but I did want you to know that you and your family are  in my thoughts and prayers at this very difficult time.  I am not sure why things always get worse over the holidays, or if maybe it just seems so, as you have been on this merry-go-round for such a long time.  I wish you some peace and some peace for your dd, who surely is hurting in all of this.  Please accept a few      from a friend on this board.      Swampped

[MammaMia]

Ray

I am so sorry for all of your troubles.  You must be overwhelmed by being a caregiver for your dd and your mother. Anyone would be.  All of this turmoil at Christmas just intensifies negative emotions.

Those of us dealing with a BPD loved one often believe absolutely EVERYONE else will have a storybook, picture perfect Christmas.  Filled with love and happiness.  I used to think that, which was very hurtful, but now I know better.  I have come to understand the dysfunction within my family and do not push for things they are not capable of.  

Believe it or not, this works wonders to help relieve the stress and drama of expectations that never happen, because they can't.  

The Christmas ring could be the one reminder she has that she is still loved, despite the mental and legal issues that loom ahead.  While it is very hard to predict what she might do, you know her best and will have to decide.

I know the money issues and how frustrating they are.  Been there, done that.  When the resources are gone, she needs to know.  Our BPD kids seem to think we are an endless source of funds, and sadly, we often help them at the expense of everyone else in the family.  This cannot go on forever.

You have not failed your dd.  You have done everything you can, and it is time for her to acknowledge your efforts by cooperating with those who want to help her.  I hope she is able to do that.  

Amongst all the craziness and despair, there is still much to be thankful for.  

I wish you hope and peace... .the best Christmas gift of all.

[raytamtay3]

Hi everyone. Lots going on. Not sure if I posted it before, but my dad was recently diagnosed with prostate cancer - stage IV. I'm his only child so on top of everything else going on, I'm preparing a POA to handle his finances. He will be 80 next month (14 years older than my mom). He is currently in a rehabilitation center. Trying to figure out what's next with him as far as care. I simply cannot bring him to my house between having my mom and DD's issues.

Things with DD have been horrible. Christmas day she learned that her 16 year old friend got engaged and after opening gifts, said she was just going to run over to her house for an hour and would be back. I told her no, but she left anyway. I had family over. She had the audacity to stroll in in the middle of our dinner, take food and leave again not to return until the next day. I tried to block her from leaving and she pushed passed me. I was so embarassed.

NYE she told me she was going to stay out and I told her she did not have my consent to do so, but she did anyway. And nope. I didn't call the police.  Since than she stayed out one more and that's when I said that's it. I'm tired of letting her constantly get away with things. Tired of my inconsistency. Tired of being gun shy to call the police. And what happened? The officer who brought her home got on my case for calling them! Asking if I tried calling around to her friends before calling the cops. No I didn't because 1. I don't have their numbers and 2. I didn't know where she was. I asked the police officer for his badge number and name. . I know, bad. But I was pissed as he was saying this infront of my daughter! THIS is why I haven't called them! But she showed herself to him anyway. Truth be told this was the first encounter with this particular officer and so to be fair, I guess he didn't know the whole situation. Anyway she ended up screaming at him saying if he would have been at her friends house 5 minutes earlier he would have never found her. That she had "just gotten there" and how next time he will never find her. He ended up saying "call us any time you need us". But I was livid. I've sinced calmed down but honestly this is why I've stopped calling.

Anyway she called me every name in the book when they left. Told me I need to die. To please get in a car accident and die. That she hoped I'd get shot and bleed out. I just looked at her thinking to myself, wow, what a troubled child she is... . and how I could never imagine saying that to my mom.

Court date is the 15th. I received the petition for the assault, which happened after the possession, and have yet to get the summons for the possession.

[MammaMia]

raytamtay2

I think if your dd is offered bail, you should consider not paying it. If she is in jail, at least you will know where she is and that she is ok.  Do not worry about calling the cops... . their job is to help people in need.  You did nothing wrong.

Sounds like your Christmas and New Year's Eve was the same as many others who have a child wBPD.  I am so sorry this is all happening at a time when your father is very ill.  It would probably be best for him to be elsewhere, and it will give you an opportunity to get away to visit him.  You certainly have your hands full. 

When it rains, it pours, and I hope you can find some quiet time to decompress from all of this. 

Please keep us posted and take good care of yourself.

[raytamtay3]

Thanks MammaMia. She is only 14, so it would be a juvinile detention center. But the lawyer makes it seem that for a 4th degree offense, and this being her first, she won't even get that. But if they suggest it, in no way shape or form will I object to it!

I'm a paralegal and I told the lawyer that anything he needs me to do legwork wise to keep the fees to a minimal, I'll do. He seemed receptive to the idea.

[MammaMia]

raytamtay

Yes, as a juvenile, she will be treated differently than an adult.  Hopefully, the judge will be made aware of her BPD.  It would be an opportunity for treatment.

[crumblingdad]

Raytam - I am so sorry for what you are dealing with and it is so familiar to me.  I really hope you will consider working with the juvenile officer and the courts to get her forced into a dual dx RTC as part of her sentencing.  Juvenile detention will only expose her to worse things and is seldom a haven for any sort of mental health treatment or positive rehabilitiation for the substance abuse.  In my experience with our DD17 where yours is 14 this is going to spiral without treatment and when you think it can't get worse it will if she's not put into some sort of placement and fast.  I only wish at 14 we had gotten the RTC we've had her in now - it's not working great but in my heart I do know had we jumped on it 3 years ago we probably could've helped her much more effectively.

[Rapt Reader]

raytamtay3, I would like to second crumblingdad's suggestion about seeing if you can negotiate your daughter being admitted to a Dual Diagnosis Program as part of the court's decision. I, also, agree with him that it would be better than a Detention Center. You may be aware of my son's story (click the link in blue in my signature line, or the globe icon under my avatar), but he never got the true help he needed until he went to the Dual Dx Program that saved his life and his mental health. And he is 36 years old; had we had such a thing available for him when he was your daughter's age, imagine all the wasted years of his life that could have been happier, healthier and more productive for him. Please advocate for this outcome with her lawyer and the judge. You won't be sorry if you do... .

[raytamtay3]

I agree that having her sent to a dual RTC is what she needs, but even if I push for it, I simply do not have the money to send her there. Benefits only cover a portion.

[Rapt Reader]

I agree that having her sent to a dual RTC is what she needs, but even if I push for it, I simply do not have the money to send her there. Benefits only cover a portion.

I'm sorry to hear that... . I know that other parents with minor children were able to have their school systems kick some money in for such a thing, if they found a place that also had the child continue with their schooling within the program. Is there anything like that available to her? If you check out the IEP threads over on Lesson 5 to the right of the margin, you'll see what other parents did to make that work. Just an idea... . Maybe your school system can help with that? The Court? Attorney? I would definitely look into it, anyway... .

[crumblingdad]

sorry to hear that as well - our mental health system is a sad state of affairs that having the finances is the only way to get our children help they need. I was in same boat financially but luckily have a 401K retirement and ended up draining much of it to pay for our DD17's RTC in advance.  The RTC was very helpful with working with and getting my insurance to cover as an in-network provider and after 60 days in RTC it looks like they're well en route to getting all but about $3K of that back for me.  It took some work.

If I can offer any help with details on how I pulled it off feel free to PM me and I'll help however I can as I spent many months prior to doing it feeling as if there was no way I could afford the help she needed and wish I had all those months I felt hopeless back to have gotten her in there earlier.

[Being Mindful]

I was in the same boat trying to figure out how to pay for it... . between working with the RTC, our insurance, our school district and county services, we got it figured out and our out of pocket became manageable.

[raytamtay3]

Can you give me a general idea of the cost associated with a dual dx RTC?

[Being Mindful]

Hi ray, That is a tough question because they vary greatly. I also don't want to scare you about the fees. I encourage you to work to find funding to help with the cost. It is out there, but it does take persistence and work to tap into it. I would also encourage you to start researching facilities first. Find the best one for your daughter's circumstances, then attack finding ways to pay for it. You might only have one chance at an RTC so it is important to find the right one. My best advice is don't take no for an answer. Also, once you find the RTC, a good one will help you to find funding. At one point, I was in daily contact with our County Commissioner and another time with the head of our state Dept. of Human Services. I also became very close with our school district superintendent.

[raytamtay3]

The closest ones are in NY. Anyone know of any good ones there?

[crumblingdad]

Don't know any in NY off top of my head but... .

McLean in Boston (but she must be willing to go as they will only take her if she wants to for their Acute Residential Treatment program which is one of the best)

Newport Academy just opened a second location in Bethlehem, CT (not far from Danbury, CT on NY border)

Silver Hill has a treatment program - they are down near New Haven, CT outside NYC

those are the only 3 I know of that I'd make a recommendation to look into in the Northeast.  (I'm sure there are more but only 3 reputable ones I came across researching for our DD - you may want to look at facilities farther away)

Also a note - McLean - if you can get her accepted by your medical insurance does not require prepay for their 28 day ART program which is unusual for most of the RTC's.  We got ours accepted twice she just refused to go - once she was approved while she was in psych hospital and the second time she agreed we went to emerg room for psych eval and be sure she didn't need detox and she changed mind while stuck for 4 hours in ER

[raytamtay3]

We had court today and other than her being ordered today to go to an RTC, it couldn’t have gone better! For one, they reduced the charge of aggravated assault down to insubordination to an officer, which reduced the fine from $500 to $30 and she is being put on one year probation. Now this is the even better party.  The judge gave a listing of probation. She is to be home by 7:00 PM – 7:00 am Monday through Friday and by 9:00 PM – 7:00 am on the weekends.  In addition she is to participate in counseling services and homebound instruction or IEP recommendations, anger management, drug treatment and testing and lastly, to comply with house rules. And if she violates probation, the judge said she is going to be court ordered to a RTC through our case management services!    

Of course DD is livid. Says how she will not be home by 7:00 and that I’m in control of allowing her out past than because it would be me who would tip off her probation officer if she isn’t home by than. She said that her other friend’s parents (it’s always the other friend’s parents with her) let them still stay out and do things even when they were on probation. I said look I’m sorry. But I was sworn in and the judge looked me in the eyes and told me that I must follow through. That it’s a court order and I will not go to jail for anyone.

She cursed me out in the car. Pulled my hair (accidently) and shoulder bumped me (accidently).

Our lawyer took us aside and said how he didn’t even mention about RTC that the judge came up with that one on her own! I literally wanted to kiss the woman’s feet!  I hate to say it, but there is noo way DD will be able to follow this probation. I give it a week. I told her she is the one who is in control. If she chooses to break probation that is her choice and she is the one who made it and will have to face the consequence.

Before I left for work after dropping her and DH off at home, DD said she left her cell in my car. I knew she had brought it in because I saw it. She swore up and down she didn’t and screamed at me to let her in the car. I did. And she grabbed the pot bowl she hid in there before going into the court house.

Between the attorney fees and the court fees I only had to pay $300! Thank you God! And if she is court ordered to go to an RTC, the case management service we work with will pay for it. Of course I’m going to start researching them now in preparation.

One last thing. DD kept mentioning as we were waiting to be brought in would what happen if she got pregnant! Whenever my DD mentions things there is always a reason. I’m willing to bet money she is pg already. And if that’s the case, she will be going to a shelter because I’ve given her plenty opportunities to go on birth control, which she said she didn’t need because she wasn’t active, and I will not be raising her child.

Our caseworker was even surprised the judge is recommending out of home. The judge said to my daughter that she she is clearly out of control and if I cannot control her, by her following the rules, than she will go away to someplace that will.

[MammaMia]

raytay

HOORAY!  Someone finally is listening.  I pray your dd is NOT pregnant.  Can you get her to take a pregnancy test?  That would be the ultimate complication.

You are probably right that she is not capable of following her probation rules and will end up in RTC.

This is a positive.  The Court is putting her there not you.  The decision to comply or pay the consequences belongs to your dd.

I am so happy you are getting the help your family needs. 

[Kate4queen]

I think this is good news for both of you. (apart from the pregnancy thing)

Well done.

[raytamtay3]

 And just a 1/2 hour ago my mother was asking my DD to help her find her pain and anxiety meds because she couldn't, and they found them in my mom's room. (Not too happy with mother asking DD to help her find them when she knows the situation we are in, and we will have a talk tonight)! So now, knowing where my mom hid them, DD snuck in her room, grabbed them and tried to take them AGAIN! It is literally 3 hours since we left court.  She just now said she found them in the basement! My mom cannot even walk down to the basement. So looks like DD took some out of the bottle again.

[pessim-optimist]

I am sorry about the pills ray, but other than that: YAY and HOORAY!

Researching the RTCs is a great idea - your dd might be off to one before you know it... . Under different circumstances it would be odd - rejoicing about sending a child away to RTC - but in this case it might be a life-saver. 

It's wonderful that you don't have to worry about paying for it.

[raytamtay3]

I may have to pay for some of it. And if I'm willing to pay even more if it's a good place.

DD already broke the 7:00 curfew; came in at 10:49 PM just as I was calling the police. We have a meeting scheduled for a probation officer next week. I'm not sure if right now she is technically on probation until she sees one. Anyone know the answer to that? I had it documented by the dispacher that DD broke a probation curfew though.

When DD fell asleep last night I went through her purse. Found 16 Xanax at the bottom of it... .  The strange thing is she knows I go through her purse. I think I've even mentioned this before. Yet she's been leaving it out as opposed to putting it right in her room when she comes home like she use to. Now it COULD be because she's so wasted now she forgets, but I'm thinking it a clear sign that she is begging for help.

My anology with kids like ours is that they are possessed. That we see the demon come out in them but that they little girl inside is screaming for help.  :'(

This morning I feel like a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders (after the judge's ruling).  And I'm counting down the days when my little girl will finally get into a RTC and I can breath again... .

[raytamtay3]

PS: While going through DD's purse, I found tampons! Hooray!

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, raytamtay3

Well, it sounds like she is probably not pregnant; congratulations! 

Also, it sounds like she will be admitted to a RTC in the near future, and that is really great! You mentioned that you will be researching her options with that, and I think you are doing the right thing. I'm truly hoping that all of this stress and trauma will finally lead to her being in a RTC and finally getting the specialized help that she needs. Hang in there, raytamtay3... . Better days are ahead 

[raytamtay3]

Got my answer re: probation. She is formally on probation. Officer said she needs to violate more than on curfew rule but I am to document them. Don't need to call police unless she is out all night. Also was told to press charges for the xanax. Oh boy. All hell is gonna break lose. But she caused this. Time to get this girl some help!

[MammaMia]

raytay

This child is screaming defiance and challenging the Court and you in every way.  Her actions are so blatant, I wonder if she is not actually seeking help.  Twisted?  Yes, but if it works, who cares?

Stay strong.  You are doing exactly what you need to do to help your dBPDd and your family.

We will be here for you.  Keep us posted, and take care.

[raytamtay3]

MammaMia - My DD is beyond defiant.  She has conduct disorder diagnoses on top of the BPD "traits".

[MammaMia]

Raytay

Your dd's additional diagnoses really complicate her behavior.  I am sorry to hear this.

[raytamtay3]

There was almost another violation just now. Tutor came out, DD forgot she was coming and was trying to tell me to reschedule because she didn't do her homework. I said tell it to the judge. She eventually let her in after cursing me out.  It's nice to FINALLY have some control.

[raytamtay3]

Mom and I went to the police station last night to make a complaint against DD for the theft of her meds. As of right now I haven't told my DD that we know she stole them nor have I told her about pressing charges. Reason being is because I get my DS6 tonight while my ex attends a viewing (this is his custodial week), and I don't want DS exposed to what's sure to be a HUGE crises situation when she finds out we pressed charges. So I plan on telling her tomorrow. Wish me luck!

Oh and my SIL and niece came over yesterday to visit mom while I was at work. SIL left purse at our house and we have video footage of DD going though it, taking out her wallet, going to her room and then secretly putting it back... .  SIL said nothing was missing. But I wonder... .

Lastly, day two of curfew violation. She came home at 11:46 PM last night.  Well on our way to RTC for sure. I hope to God we get the same judge for the recent incident.

[crumblingdad]

I think your DD is asking for RTC in her own way. 

She knows she's out of control and often our kids with BPD just aren't capable of asking for help so they seek it through means we without BPD find irrational and absolutely crazy. 

I've learned in the last few years that it's important to remember their reality is one of nothing but pain and misery where they are in a constant state of self-loathing for their actions, accompanied with guilt, shame, and anger. 

The idea she's doing all this due to her inability to communicate her true needs and is saying "help control me" through a message of "you can't control me - watch this defiance to prove it!" seems ridiculous - but my experience with our DD is it's often very much the truth behind the dance. 

Agree with you on doing your research on RTC's I know you said you're close to NY but I'd look hard at RTC's in area and even see if they'd consider sending her outside area -  finding ones you feel comfortable are a better fit for your daughter vs. leaving it to the courts or others will be a valuable tool.  My experience again with courts has been it's amazing how much they will listen to parents who are showing they are responsible and trying to help their children. 

[raytamtay3]

Shaking like a leaf. I just called lawyer and he is calling judge as I type!  So I might not have a chance to research RTCs. Something might go down today. This sucks. Reiterate it's what's best for DD.  Tell me I'm doing the right thing.  

Lawyer thinks there is a possibility she may go to detention today.  :'(

[Rapt Reader]

Do you know if it will be the same judge, the one you want?

Does "detention" mean an RTC? Hopefully a Dual Diagnosis Program?

Maybe they want to get this show on the road before she majorly self-destructs, or runs away? Or before she does something more dangerous, drug-related?

I do know that right before my son was admitted to his DDx Program, and after he was released from the hospital for suicidal ideation, they required him to be homebound under our strict supervision until the bed was available at the DDx Center. It was a way to make sure he was totally detoxed and around to be admitted to the Center. Maybe they are just being careful, knowing you cannot keep her in your sight at all times?

As far as researching--and I would want to do that, too!--maybe see if you can find out just where they have in mind for her to be admitted, and then see what you can find out about it right away... . Things are progressing like this for a reason that the Universe is guiding; hang in there, raytamtay3... . your little girl is going to get the help she needs  

[raytamtay3]

Do you know if it will be the same judge, the one you want?

Does "detention" mean an RTC? Hopefully a Dual Diagnosis Program?

Maybe they want to get this show on the road before she majorly self-destructs, or runs away? Or before she does something more dangerous, drug-related?

I do know that right before my son was admitted to his DDx Program, and after he was released from the hospital for suicidal ideation, they required him to be homebound under our strict supervision until the bed was available at the DDx Center. It was a way to make sure he was totally detoxed and around to be admitted to the Center. Maybe they are just being careful, knowing you cannot keep her in your sight at all times?

As far as researching--and I would want to do that, too!--maybe see if you can find out just where they have in mind for her to be admitted, and then see what you can find out about it right away... . Things are progressing like this for a reason that the Universe is guiding; hang in there, raytamtay3... . your little girl is going to get the help she needs  

Yes, lawyer is contact the judge we had this past Wednesday.

Sounds to me like they are going to put her in detention until the next court date because she cannot be supervised at home. We work. And then I'm hoping while she detained I can find a suitable RTC. DD said at court, not to the judge mind you, that she'd rather go to JUVI than an RTC. She thinks RTCs are mental wards. I tried to explain the difference. But she didn't believe me.

[Rapt Reader]

For you and your daughter's sake, I do hope it is the same Judge, the one you like and who knows your daughter's situation the best.

I suppose the Lawyer or someone will be contacting you and letting you know what is going on; is your daughter even at home and available for apprehending? When is the next court date, the one she'd be held until?

This has got to be very stressful for you... . Let us know what happens; I'll be praying for you, raytamtay3 

[crumblingdad]

They will likely put her in Juvenile Detention until a RTC is secured.  This is what happened to my DD when she took off and blew her court date off. 

I will warn you in advance - this probably will mean shackles and orange suits and it will shake you to the core.

They will have a hearing pretty quickly  is my guess and will want RTC determined quickly as detaining a juvenile still involves her rights etc.

BUT YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING!

Some quick and easy suggestions since you mentioned  NY not being far from you or where you live - not sure if court orders will require a facility that only takes state referrals my guess is that might be the case.

Some places not that far from NY for you in a pinch:

-Newport Academy (expensive as hell but if you need a phone number PM me and I'll get you a name and number to call and you might be able to get them to negotiate a small discount - it'll still be expensive though) in Bethlehem, CT  - be surprised if any court order would cover funding for this program or a payment quick enough without Newport needing money out of pocket up front from you.

SilverHill outside of New Haven I've heard some good things about and perhaps could work something out there. 

Another possibility not TOO FAR from NY is Burncoat in Worcester, MA - my DD was there very briefly and they were pretty good, not tremendous but it was early on for us and I didn't even know what BPD was back then to say or ask for the proper things for her treatment and its a secure facility and dual Dx and takes most insurance.  www.communityhealthlink.org/htlmpages/yfs-bfc.html

Just throwing things out ther for you since time is moving FAST right now and I remember these anxious days in my not so distant past.

You are doing a tremendous job - stick to your guns and don't waiver on your commitment to RTC - everything you've said tells me this is an absolute need for your DD and your family right now and will help her get on the road to what she needs.  (don't expect anything positive out of her mouth or anything that's going to make you feel good from her about this as she will likely be feeling like a caged animal and will act accordingly.)

Thoughts and prayers are with you and your family for all of this as it's a difficult and tremendously emoional experience.

[raytamtay3]

As usual, more hoops to jump through. Because the theft charge is a 4th degree offense, they don't detain. However, lawyer told me to change the complaint to possession of a controlled substance with the intent to distribute to bring it to a 3rd degree offense which could. So I'm going to do that tomorrow after my ex comes to get our son because the first complaint has already been mailed out anyway.

[raytamtay3]

Thanks CD. Yes, unfortuently, I think RTC will be through our CMS in our county But I'm hoping that while she is there, I can look around for someplace better and request to have her transferred.

[raytamtay3]

We live in Gloucester County NJ

[Being Mindful]

Ray, If possible, research RTC's now and try to find the best one for your d. and not accept what is recommended if it doesn't meet her needs. You can lose valuable time and if your daughter is in a place that doesn't fit her needs, more harm than good can occur. Work it as hard and best as you can. Advocate for your d. and for the best fit for an RTC otherwise, everyone suffers and more losses, especially for her.

[raytamtay3]

Every day since she went to court gets more and more interesting.  Mother and I filed the complaint as a theft. I haven't even spoken to DD about it yet.  She has been late coming home ever single night. On the 17th, we have her on tape taking my mother's pocketbook out of her room. On the 18th, she came home with her tongue pierced.  And yesterday, she stayed over night at her friend's house without my consent. She text'd me at 11:30 PM when I was already asleep saying she was staying the night.

Tomorrow we meet with her probation officer. I have documented every event that has occurred since court and will be presenting to the officer.  I expect the ride home to be hell and just hope she doesn't grab the wheel of my car again.

[raytamtay3]

Yesterday was DD’s first scheduled meeting with her probation officer. Despite the snow, come hell or high water, I was determined to get her there. I received two calls from the probation officer saying the office was first closing at 3:00 so we needed to get there before than or reschedule. Said we’d be there before then. Than got a call at 12:00 saying they were closing between 1:00 and 1:15, I said we’ll be there before then.

After staying out all night Sunday night (texting my while I was asleep informing me of this), DD didn’t come home until 2:44 am Tuesday morning (police were called before than). Yesterday, the morning of her probation meeting! She was beyond hangover. Almost vomiting in the car. She looked bad. But I dragged her butt in there anyway. She said she wanted to get it all out of her system before being put on probation despite me telling her that her probation began on the 15th, which was her court date. She refused to believe this.

The probation officer asked if there have been any more incidents since her arrest and I proceeded to tell her about DD taking Xanax again and how my mother and I filed a complaint. This was the first DD learned of this. I wanted to tell her in front of the officer so that she could see what I deal with. DD began crying. Of course it broke my heart in to pieces. Since she couldn’t produce urine sample they swabbed her. What a horrible experience it was.

On the way to the car DD began cursing at me telling me she hopes I fall and die.  When we got home she fell asleep on the couch for most of the night and I thought I was in the clear as far as enduring her wrath. But nope.

Around 10:30 PM last night she sat up and asked how I could file charges on my own daughter. Said I’ve been trying to send her away for years. Asking what kind of mother does this to their child. I told her it wasn’t I who made her take Xanax from her grandmother AGAIN and the day we had court about the first incident. That her actions since court are a clear sign to me that she needs help. That’s she crying out for help and that I will do everything in my power to get her that help. I told her over and over that I love her while crying my eyes out.  Then I removed myself after she spit in my face and went to my room and locked the door. DH was in there shaving.  :)D kicked in the door. So I called the police.

They came out and calmed her down. I was hyper ventilating by this point hysterically crying. She also kicked in my mother’s door trying to get to the house phone. My DH wants me to file charges for that today as well.

I’m beside myself today. I came to work in bad weather just so I could get away from her. I didn’t want to be trapped in the house with her badgering me about dropping the charges.

She asked me to come to her room last night so she could talk to me. Told me I’m the cause for everything she does. That she cuts because of me. That everything is my fault. That I know her worst fear is being sent away to “one of those places” and how could I do that to my own daughter. I tried hard not to cry again but lost it. Telling her again that I’m doing what I need to do to protect her. That she needs help. She ended up telling me to get out of her room.

It had to be one of the most heartbreaking moments of my life. My nerves are shot. I’m shaking like a leaf even as I type this.

DD keeps saying she has a chance to prove that she can be good. That now that she is on probation she has no choice. I told her again she’s been on probation and has broken every single thing on the list the judge ordered. Told her she’s had chance after chance after chance and she continues to do what she wants to do.

I can’t take this anymore.

DH began to lunge for her last night when she kicked in our bedroom door. She broke the frame and all. But he caught himself. He is calling the probation officer himself today to say something needs to be done now because he doesn’t know how much longer he can restrain himself.

My heart is shattered.

PS: probation officer is giving me the address for a support group in my area that is primarily for parents of kids like mine. It's not an Al anon on Nar-Anon type of place.

Oh and on top pf all this, last night my 27 year old niece who has been liviung at my parent's house since she was 12 and now with her 8 year old son, text'd me nion stop telling me I should have never dropped my mom off at the house because she has ebnough to worry about with my dad. I about lost it. She even went so far as to say I deserve what I'm getting from DD. My niece is bipolar... .

[swampped]

Dear Raytamtay:  Just wanted to let you know that you and your dd and your dh are in my thoughts and prayers.  Nobody should have to live with this terrible illness, and your courage in the face of so much pain is an inspiration.  I pray that you will get some relief soon, and that your dd's head will clear enough that she can start on the long road to healing.  Sounds like the mother of all extinction bursts right now.  Be strong.      Swampped

[raytamtay3]

Thank you swamped. I just want peace.

[MammaMia]

raytay

I am so very sorry.  You must be at the end of your rope... . with good reason.  I pray you are able to get your dd removed from your home.  That is the only way you will find peace.

As for your niece... . tell her to suck it up.  Stop the pity party.  Tell her you fear for your Mother's safety while dd is in the home.  The recent violent outburst will validate that.  I cannot believe the police did not take dd into custody when they had the chance.  In a show of solidarity, your dh could file charges as well.

I am very worried about you and your dh.  If her PO does not do something to help, I would go over her head to a supervisor and maybe even to the judge. 

You cannot do everything for everyone.  Stop feeling guilty about it and do what you have to do to protect yourself and your family. 

Please keep us posted.  Our prayers are with you.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, raytamtay3... . I'm agreeing with MammaMia that it's surprising that the Probation Officer just let your daughter go home and didn't intervene in some way (with custody or fast-tracking to that RTC). So, she is getting no punishment from the system for already violating probation? If that is the case, no wonder she doesn't realize that probation already started and she thinks that she still has time to "be good" and get out of some sort of RTC program or whatever.

You may even have to go over P.O.'s head, to a Supervisor or the Judge in the case, to find some sort of relief. With the violence and belligerence she is exhibiting, you and your husband need help now, not at a later date (when is that court date, anyway?). If the court date is just right around the corner, that could be why she didn't act yesterday; if it's many days away, then I don't understand. The police have records of all of your calls and their interventions, so the proof is available.

You guys need help; you need to talk to someone higher up if you have to, to get it... . I'll keep you in my prayers still, raytamtay3 

[raytamtay3]

We haven't received the papers for the new court date yet. But we had our first interaction with a female police officer last night and she said even she was going to call the courthouse (of course it's closed today due to inclement weather though - grrr) to push things along. She really took pity on me last night. I have a good feeling about her being around now. The other officers just have not been helpful to us at all.

I feel like there are always obsticles in our way. Like yesterday. I had my exh keep DS6 for an extra day so I could take DD to the probation meeting and avoid potential crises (which happened), only to have a blizzard and getting to the PO literally with 3 minutes to spare before they closed fish-tailing the ride there! Then we have a crises situation last night where police had to be called, again in the snow (12 inches)! Luckily one officer was right around the corner and got to us fast. DH wanted to personally talk to the PO today only to have their office closed due to the snow today as well! Is some higher power preventing this from happening? Geesh.

DH went into work today distraght. His boss told him to go home... . my poor DH.

[raytamtay3]

Without a shadow of a doubt, my DD14 needs help. It’s evident to you all just by reading what I’ve written lately. I know in my heart that I’m doing the right thing trying to get her court ordered placed at a RTC. But why is it still so difficult to do? :'(

Of course last night she came home on time and looked sober. She even talked to both my DH and me and was very pleasant to be around. She acted like nothing even happened the night before. 

Tonight she wants to go to the library to get some books since she has to be in by 7 during the week now.  I know this is an act. I’ve fallen for it a hundred times before. Every time I would let my guard down she’d do something horrendous. But it’s still hard. I want to believe that she is turning things around when she gets like this. And of course I want to believe that now that she feels she is on probation, even though it started on the 15th and not the 22 like she thinks, that this was her rock bottom and she truly wants to try now. But like I’ve mentioned, she has had chance after chance after chance for success and as of late, tops herself on inappropriate actions.

I heard back from her PO just now about this recent incident where she kicked in the doors. The PO said we have to file charges for it if we want to expedite things. Said that the sooner we get in front of a judge the better.  Said that she may have to go to a shelter before a RTC is found and that if she runs away from it, she will go directly to detention.

From this moment on I’m going to need tremendous support from you all to remind me that I am doing the right thing. I am so emotionally and physically drained. I love my DD so much. My goal is to get her help now before she is on her own so that she can learn the skills now to be a productive member of society.

Please help me through this. I haven’t prayed in so long and I’ve found myself praying lately for God to help me cope with this. I may even go to church. I need help. I need help to stop falling for these moments when she is being who I’ve always dreamed she could be. Compliant and nice.

This is truly killing me. Pressing charges against your child has to be one of the hardest things for a parent to do.  It's literly killing me. I've felt sick for a few days now.

[Rapt Reader]

This is really stressful for you, raytamtay3, and that is so understandable. What happens if you don't press charges regarding the door jam damage? She just stays home (when she's there), and waits for a court date that hasn't been set yet? Then gets admitted to a RTC when the court date is done, and a bed opens up for her? Do you trust that she will stay nice and friendly and compliant during this time? What were her consequences about the recent violence and damage she caused? Do you think she "learned her lesson" at this point?

If you are fearing that she is faking her new, compliant self, and that another episode of violence and damage is imminent, you do have the option of pressing those charges and taking care of her consequences now, not after another blow-up. Can you even handle another blow-up? Which would be harder, doing what the P.O. is recommending:

I heard back from her PO just now about this recent incident where she kicked in the doors. The PO said we have to file charges for it if we want to expedite things. Said that the sooner we get in front of a judge the better.  Said that she may have to go to a shelter before a RTC is found and that if she runs away from it, she will go directly to detention.

Or dealing with her ups and downs for now, anticipating and then having to deal with the next act of violence and defiance? Emotionally, this is becoming intolerable for you; she did what she recently did and you can legitimately have her face those consequences. That would be "real life" and doesn't make you a "bad Mom" or "bad person." If the professional advice is ripping the band-aid off quickly and getting the wound doctored up and healed ASAP, that is a very viable option.

Only you know what you are able to emotionally handle; each of your options are painful. Only one gets the healing done, sooner rather than later. How does your husband feel about all of this? Is he ready to follow the P.O.'s advice and support you if you do that? Having his support and backing will be integral to this, and having the P.O.'s support is also something you can use to help you be strong. And, yeah... . prayer and spiritual armor is also a plus. Invaluable, actually... . We do support you, raytamtay3, and will be here to listen and comfort you when you do what you end up believing you need to do 

[crazedncrazymom]

Awww I've been there.  I know how awful it is.  I remember sitting down with my dd's counselors and my dh.  They were all telling me it was time to make that decision.  I was adamant.  NO I said... I won't put my little girl there.  By the time we all left we had reached an agreement that the next time she went to an ER for any reason (other than something medical of course) that I would pursue rtf.  I went home and told my dd the outcome of the meeting.  I told her how much I loved her and knew she loved me and that she belonged home. 

Well... . that night she asked to go to the er.  After all that arguing and being proud of myself for standing up for my daughter.  She didn't even last a day. 

Only you can say what she really needs.  It's hard to do and it's hard to stick by it.  It broke my heart every day.  However, it gave me much needed respite from the constant every day fighting.  I took time to work on myself and learn the skills here at BPD Family.  I got to breathe and know that my dd wasn't going to fight with me all the time.  She's been home 5 months now.  It's so much better.

[Being Mindful]

Hi Ray, Sending you hugs. We hear your despair. You are a strong and excellent mom and are doing what you need to do. Being Mindful

[DreamGirl]

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