Beginning Stages of RTC Placement - Continuation of Daughter was Arrested.

[raytamtay3]

Nobody seemed to have answered my question though. Would you go pick up your child if they called you past the curfew time to do so or let them fend for themsleves, and get themselves home, considering they got themselves to the location they are at?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

My honest opinion: She's 14 years old.  You need to know where she is, who she's with and be responsible for taking her/picking her up or knowing how she is getting there/back home.  It isn't even about her calling you.  You need to set the rules.  I will be picking you up at 10pm.  At that age curfew is just a way of her knowing that you expect all activities to cease and that she will be in the house by that time but you still have a lot of responsibility. 

Even if she misses curfew or runs off, you need to still be responsible for getting her back home.  I would then hold her accountable for her actions by not allowing any privileges until she completes an action of my choosing (washing the car, extra chores... . whatever it is that needs doing at the moment).  Don't make it a war.  Don't tell her these things in anger or frustration.  Always show compassion and love when setting expectations.

Honey you know we love you.  You know we expect to know where you are.  We need you to agree that this is the rule and wash the car to show you understand you broke the rule.   Can you do that?  No?  Ok then we will have to turn off your phone until it's done.  Love you honey.  Bye bye.  *walk away*  She'll be angry... call you names... . scream ... . whatever.  Just ignore it (easier said than done I know... been there).  You might have to go through this scenario 100 times without yelling in order for her to understand the new household rules.  Don't engage... . ever!  Let her know that from now on this family doesn't yell at each other and then walk away.  Turn off the phone and let the ball be in her court. 

I used to turn my daughters phone off as a punishment.  Now I use it to get her to complete other punishments (cleaning etc).  That way we can all get what we want as quickly as possible and let things stabilize.  I found it to be much more effective than saying OK that's it!  You've lost your phone for 3 days!  I used to want her to know how angry I was that she did whatever it was she did.  Now I want her to know that I love her even though whatever she did was unacceptable.  Punishments are reminders not to do whatever she did.  It's not a big deal.  Just don't do it again. 

One of the things we did was every time she was out of control and physically aggressive or destructive, call the police and have them take dd to the hospital for a psych eval.  4 hours of sitting by herself in a room with nothing to do was enough to cool her down.  It was embarrassing as anything to have the police and ambulance at the house every single day! 

You'll see as time goes by that it's easier to put that validation/expectations/boundaries into play.

I know she's giving you a hard time and that's where her accountability comes into play.  If she isn't going to cooperate then there's not much you can do about it.  However, (hoping she goes to rtf to reset your relationship) I would definitely set and keep those limits when she comes home for visits. 

Sorry it's long and rambling. 

-crazed

[raytamtay3]

Anyone on here that has a child with ODD on top of BPD want to chime in? Rules and consequences do not work for my DD. Period. She doesn't care. Actually I think it's pretty safe to say she's graduated to Conduct Disorder.

www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-conduct-disorder

[Rapt Reader]

I read that article, raytamtay3 (thanks for bringing it to our attention), and it does sound like your daughter... .

My honest opinion: She's 14 years old.  You need to know where she is, who she's with and be responsible for taking her/picking her up or knowing how she is getting there/back home.  It isn't even about her calling you.  You need to set the rules.  I will be picking you up at 10pm.  At that age curfew is just a way of her knowing that you expect all activities to cease and that she will be in the house by that time but you still have a lot of responsibility. 

Even if she misses curfew or runs off, you need to still be responsible for getting her back home.  I would then hold her accountable for her actions by not allowing any privileges until she completes an action of my choosing (washing the car, extra chores... . whatever it is that needs doing at the moment).  Don't make it a war.  Don't tell her these things in anger or frustration.  Always show compassion and love when setting expectations.

I do think that crazedncrazymom's advice seems sound, though. What would happen if you put any of this into practice? If you dropped her off and picked her up at her friends' houses, would that not work? In answer to your question as to whether you should go and get her at someone's house after she is not home by curfew, I also would get her anyway; she's 14 and needs her Mom to make sure she is home safe. But, if you followed crazed's advice, you would be picking her up anyway at 10:00 PM, so that missing curfew wouldn't be an issue. Or, is she so defiant that she wouldn't be there when you got there?

For those of us whose children didn't/don't have ODD or Conduct Disorder, can you tell us what would happen if you did what was suggested? Thanks 

[raytamtay3]

She either wouldn't be there, or would not come willingly with me. I went to pick her up one morning before work from her friend's house that she stayed over night at without my permission. At first she refused to come home with me saying she'd be home later. I told her she had 5 minutes to gather her things or I would be calling the police right than and there to have them bring her home if she wasn't willing to come with me. It resulted in her coming home and cursing me out the whole way and saying it didn't make sense because she was just going to go back out anyway. She did, but later in the day.

Grounding does not work. She goes out before I get home from work. Consequences have been cell taking away, all snack food removed from the house, basic cable, etc. She could care less. She'd take it to a next level, i.e., I'd come home with her being gone and the house a mess (clothes all over the laundry room, all lights left on, cabinents open, toothpaste purposely squeezed out all over the bathroom sink, etc.).  She seeks revenge instead of trying to make things right.

She loves to argue.

That's just a little example.

[jellibeans]

Dear raytamtay

My dd16 has a pretty bad case of ODD... . it is the thing that is the hardest to deal with at times and has often caused her to meltdown pretty quickly when she doesn't get her way. Just like a two year old having a tantrum.

My dd now drives so I have the consequence of losing that priviledge. She also cares deeply for her phone so I can also take that away but I think it is important to make the consequences relate to the infraction.

She stayed out pass curfew... . then at my house she would be grounded and not have the freedom to go out where she pleases if she doesn't come home on time. If she stayed out all night I report her as a run away.

What I hvae really tried to do is to reduce the conflict by simply letting the natural consequences come into play when ever possible. Some of the main problems we had with my dd were... .

Eating with us or just her lack of eating... . meals were torture around here... unpleasant and upsetting... . I do not insist she comes to eat with us. I tell her what we are eating and when. It is up to her to come and eat. I don't have control of that and it is a waste of my energy to try.

Going to school and doing her work... . I was always running behind her reminding her of tests and work she needed to do... . the more I nagged the less she did... . now she knows if her grades are not all passing at report time she will lose the right to drive her car. She loves her car so she makes sure she is passing... . barely but she is passing... . it is her life and if she doesn't want to apply herself then she won't get into a good college etc... .

Going to sleepovers... . my dd uses these times to get into trouble by sneaking out etc... . she is grounded if anything like this happens... . not returning home on time etc...

Now your dd probably doesn't stay home while grounded... . I tell my daughter if she leave our home without premission then I will assume she is running away and I call the police. My daughter snuck out in the middle of the night to go sleep over a friends house. In the morning when I went to wake her she was not there. I was worried sick about her but I still called the police... . eventually they told her that she would go to juvie if she ran away one more time and she hasn't run again.

Until I regulary started calling the police my dd didn't even try to control herself. She was verbally and phsyically abusive to me and my husband. We had locks on our older daughter's room and our room so we could lock her out. We were living in a jail of sorts... . locking up every knife in the house... . and on and on

I think after my dd went to RTC  she really started to come around... . We were very clear with her that when she came home if she could live by the rules here then things would be good but if she returned to her old ways we would find another RTC and this time she would be gone for a long time. I know that does sound terrible but if we were unable to help her then we needed to take her to a place where they could. At that time we were very worried for her and even though she saw it as punishment we knew she was getting help.

I talked with her therapist about RTC... . she thinks that because of my dd's ODD that she would not do well at RTC. I think it would certainly take longer. In Valerie Porr's book she doesn't think that RTC is the place for these teens. I really don't know but when they are out of control and are SI then I don't know what other choice we have.

My daughter is doing better now... . she still struggles but she is less violent and abusive and able to listen and comply with requests to do things. Recently showed me great improvements when in the past her reaction would have been explosive. She has even interveiwed for a job... . I see a lot of improvements and I have hope... . don't loose that... . we all need hope for their future.

[crazedncrazymom]

Wow!  I remember those days.  One time DD got mad at me and dh and poured body wash all over our bed.  It ruined a comforter, sheets and pillow cases. 

You may need her to go to rtf in order to start setting these boundaries.  Like I said, If she isn't going to cooperate with you then there's not a lot you can do about it.

DD has been diagnosed with intermittent explosive disorder, ODD, mood disorder, major depressive disorder and BPD.

I feel for you.  I remember the frustration and helplessness of being in your situation.  It can get better!  How are you taking care of yourself these days?  Have you heard anything back from her PO yet?  I've been keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. 

[raytamtay3]

DD and her friend apparently stole $100 from another friend's brother and took a bus someplace at 2:00 Wednesday afternoon. They have been reported missing as we do not know their wherabouts... .

Talked to DD's PO this morning who is writing a report for probation violation, attaching my log I've kept since the court day and presenting it to the judge today along with a recommendation for a bench warrant.  

[Rapt Reader]

My goodness, raytamtay3! 

Please hang in there... . Hopefully they will find her soon, and then take care of getting her somewhere safe where she can wait out her time to be (hopefully, again) admitted to an RTC/DDx Program.

She needs help, and maybe now she will get it.

I'm sorry for all the stress and aggravation you are having to deal with 

[crumblingdad]

 thinking of you and praying there is nothing worse when they're missing and you don't know if she's safe or not.  Hope they find her and the bench warrant keeps her detained so that she's not free to roam until an RTC placement is made.

[raytamtay3]

Judge just signed off on the warrant. My DD officially has a warrant out for her arrest.What ever mother loves to hear! BUT, at least I'll know she's safe. That is IF they find her... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[MammaMia]

Raytam

My thoughts and prayers are with you and dd.  She just continues to make things worse and the consequences are on her ... .  not you.  Her actions only confirm how much she needs help.

Please know we support you in your struggle.  You are doing what is best for everyone, and

I hope you can find comfort and peace once dd is located and detained.

You are a very strong person and dd is lucky to have you for a mother.   God bless.

[crazedncrazymom]

Are you worried?  This does seem par for the course.  How are you holding up?

[raytamtay3]

Thank you everyone for your help, support and understanding. I really really appreciate it! You all have given me strength and hope. 

[raytamtay3]

I'm not that worried because she's done this before. But I do have the "what ifs" running around in my head. But I have to trust that things happen for reasons.

[raytamtay3]

I had to hang up on my ex, her father this morning. And I have to keep him out of the loop in an effort to prevent him from sabatoging this process... .

I thought the right thing to do was inform him that she was missing. Which I did. Now remember, he relinquished rights to her by giving my full custody two years ago because he couldn't handle her anymore. Prior to that we shared 50/50 custody (one week on one week off). He tends to forget the hell she put him threw because he hasn't even had her over every other weekend like was agreed to. And as mentioned before, when I was married to him and knew something wasn't right with DD and wanted to get her help, he faught me tooth and nail saying she was fine; we just weren't consistent.

So he text'd me this morning saying the top story on the news was that a 14 year old "unidentified" girl with red hair (DD just died her blonde hair red) was found beaten, raped and dead in PA! I grabbed my phone to see if such a story was on the news and guess what... . nope! Then he called me at work to say that he knows for a fact one of my DD's friends knows her wherabouts. I asked him how he knows that. He said trust him, he knows. I said well you need to tell me how! I can't just go to the mother of the girl who I've been talking with whose DD is home and says she doesn't know where she is, unless I know for a fact. He said the girl posted on twitter that she was hanging with my DD. Then he changed it later saying it was before they apparently left on the bus! By that time I asked the mother to ask her DD again! Then ex says how it's impossible that DD purchased a bus ticket at the bus stop like I said. I never said that! I told him it was reported that they got on a bus! He said oh it doesn't matter. I said yes it does! In situations like this you have to have facts straight. He got cocky with me so I hung up on him.  Grr. Sorry, just venting. But he will do everything in his power to prevent this from happening (her goipng away). But now that I have full legal and physically custody, he has no say.

[MammaMia]

Raytam

Rely on information from the police.  If your ex has a solid  lead on dd's whereabouts, they should know.  Otherwise, he should not assume anything.

You do not need this on top of everything else! 

[crazedncrazymom]

raytam,

UGH!  I just want to smack your ex for you.  You are stressed out enough without dealing with nonsense.  I hope the police are actively looking for her and find her.  You must be so stressed not knowing where she is and whether or not she is safe. 

  I'll be keeping you in my prayers!

-crazed

[maxen]

UGH!  I just want to smack your ex for you.

that was my thought also.

wow raytam you've lived a whole lifetime with this situation. all strength to you. you've got support here.

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi raytamtay,

How are you today?  Any word from your daughter?

[raytamtay3]

Hi. Still no word. Polkce did say they spome to nj transit and were informed the night they tool the bus from our area was to go to camden! Two beahtiful girls in camden nj!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

I'm so sorry.  You must be so worried.  Are you doing anything to keep yourself distracted?

[MammaMia]

Have you called the Camden police?

[raytamtay3]

She has been found. And she is now j. Detention pending a hearing tomorrow mornng. Lawyer said they will most likely keep her until next week pending another hearing. She claims she got kidnapped and raped and git away by jumping out of a car. Scrapes on her underarm. Sorry, not buying it.

[MammaMia]

Raytam

What a relief.

I am so glad your dd has been found and she is ok.  Now she needs to deal with what she has done.

[crumblingdad]

Phew - I'm thrilled they found her.  I'm sure you're relieved and I'm guessing very concerned and worried still that she's in juvenile detention.  I can't believe it was only 3 months ago I was in the same situation as you.

Stay strong - the next week I remember being very tough - seeing the bright orange jumpsuit and the shackles on both ankles and wrists with our DD crying and pleading for us to let her come home and then she'd go to an RTC and us flat having to refuse and not buckle to the emotion.

Very tough time it is.  Remember you're doing the right thing right now and your DD was the one who made the choices and now must face consequences or getting the appropriate and very necessary help.

Just over 90 days since I was there and I'm now sitting in the airport for red-eye home from California.  Today we visited a sober living facility for her to transfer to in Orange County.  I took her for a drive up to LA where she wanted to see Skid Row so, in her words, "she could be humbled and reminded of how lucky she is." It's not perfect she still has a long ways to go but I want to remind you she was in Detention 92 days ago (and had a heroin addiction and detoxing which at least your DD hasn't reached).  There is MUCH hope for you and your DD.  Make sure you continue to take care of yourself and use every resource you can find to help with your own coping.  Make sure you voice your concerns for the need for an RTC - juvenile system is meant for rehabilitation not to be punitive so be sure you remind all involved of that at all turns in the process to get her help.

Good Luck and Praying for you and your DD (and yeah I wanna smack your ex too)

[crazedncrazymom]

I'm so happy she's been found and is safe!  I'm sure the police will do a thorough investigation and let you know if they think she was really raped.  Please make sure there is closure on that issue otherwise it will haunt you for years.  My dd claims she was raped.  She wrote out the story of the attack a year after it supposedly happened.  DH and I didn't believe her but we keep hearing about it from professionals.  They claim she has PTSD because she mentions it during evaluations.  Now we're stuck in a situation where we don't even know what the truth is. 

Well now that she's been found and safe and most likely will be kept in detention until residential (Best case scenario... . I'm sitting here smiling for you!), how on earth will you and dh fill all your time? 

[raytamtay3]

Thanks everyone. Getting ready to call for the hearing.  A little nervous. Ill let u knkw how it goes 

[raytamtay3]

They are detaining her pending the next hearing which is scheduled for Tuesday at 11. The judge started by saying the purpose of today's hearing was for him to decide if she should b detained until next hearing or allowed to go home.  Then he asked me if i had anything to add. I said your honor, i feel my daughter should be detained, that she is a danger to herself and others at this point. She took off.for 4 days and just resurfaced yesterday so she is also a flight risk. He thanked me for my candor and ruled she remain detained pending Tuesdays hearing.

[crazedncrazymom]

hey raytay    How are you feeling now?  It must be so hard to be in this situation.  I know you know it's the right thing to do.  How are you taking care of yourself now?