DD14 in RTC - Continuation

[raytamtay3]

DD called me on my way home from work last night. She asked why I didn't come this past Saturday and I told her because I thought her father and I were taking turns. She said how he's coming every weekend. I said ok. She then asked why I wanted to do every other weekend and I told her, to be honest, because last time we went together she was trying to play us against each other. She said that when she found out I lied about telling him everything, she had and will continue "to call me out" even if it's in front of him. I let it go as did she as she only had 15 minutes to talk. She did however say that I didn't ever have to come. And then in the same breath told me what to bring this Saturday... .

I mentioned how she should be getting home passes soon shouldn't she? And she said no because she hasn't gotten out of level 1 yet. I asked her why. She said she wasn't going to repeat everything that had happened; that I know about. I asked if anything new has happened that would prevent her from moving up and she said yes. She said that during an A.R.T. group session, where they do skits reflecting on things that are bothering them, some girl did one on her that "pissed me off, so I left the building and went to go feed my horse in the rain for about 20 minutes before they found me. So I got written up".  I told her that she has to try harder not to let things bother but to speak with her CM there and let her know what's going on.

She then told me how she wants to get a job there to stay out of trouble. I said that was a very good idea and to speak to her CM about that as well.  She then said how she organized for the girls to play kick ball yesterday afternoon to which I replied that she's always been such a great leader and how great I thought that was that she did that.  That maybe she can try and do that more often. She perked right up. Said how she told the staff that she could run the place to which they responded they had no doubt she could because she has such leadership abilities.  As I've mentioned before, one of her favorite teachers in school use to say how she was a natural born leader who just needs to use her powers for good and not evil.  I know for a fact if my DD stayed on the right path, she could definetly make a big contribution to society.

She did mentioned again that she doesn't think this is the right place for her but that if I make her stay, which she has no problem doing, just to let me know, she will come home the same way because there is absolutely no therapy. That they sit there staring at each other during session.  She also told me not to get mad, and not to say anything to her father, but that they discussed how she could move back (50/50 split again) after she comes out. That her father said he thought she'd be in less trouble living with me but now sees that it was worse. I didn't engage. I know her game and I know his game. All I said is that's something that would be discussed much later. She said she knows.

Lastly. she told me not to tell her dad she called me. Part of her (and his) game too.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Ray you handled that well! Good for you... . give it time and keep doing what you are doing

[raytamtay3]

Does anyone have any advice as far as what to discuss at todays' treatment plan meeting?

[raytamtay3]

Ray you handled that well! Good for you... . give it time and keep doing what you are doing

Thanks! 

[jellibeans]

Ray is it hard to know what to ask until you are presented with the treatment plan. The plan should be very detailed. Were all your queston answered at the last meeting ? I know you had some concerns with the place.

[raytamtay3]

We had the treatment plan meeting and things go a little intense.

It began when DD tried to explain that she isn’t getting anywhere with the therapist. It sounds like the therapist (who is about 25) has a very strong will like DD does and there is definitely a personality conflict there. And the therapist seems very immature and not at all professional in the least! She seems to get an attitude and a professional should not. She did design a treatment plan that sounds good and they are going to work on it, but my thought is if they aren’t getting anywhere, DD needs to see someone else. They said they have 5 therapists on site and they are all taken. So what’s one to do in this situation?  I asked her if she had experience working with people with BPD and she said yes. I said then you know the approach one has to take with people who have it? She said she did. But it sure doesn’t sound like it to me.

It got heated between my ex and the therapist because ex doesn’t know how to speak to people without coming across holier than thou. At one point he told her to let him finishing talking when she interrupted and then she did the same to him when he interrupted. I’m not at all impressed with this therapist.  What should I do?

[raytamtay3]

Our district CM just called me on her own. She attended the meeting in person. She said she was "appalled" at the therapist. Said how a good therapist puts on a mask in front of their client and shows professionalism and she did none of that. That she made is blatantly obvious that she is very immature, inexperienced and has no business being a therapist. Wow. She also applauded me and my ex for speaking up. She is calling the therapist's supervisor first and if we get no where on that end, the big wig to complain about the therapist.

I shot an email to the CM at the facility whom I've developed a nice rapour with, and expressed my concerns and told her that if there isn't another therapist available that would be a better fit for DD, we may have to consider relocating.

I told my ex that I think it was really great how we showed DD that we are a united front about her concerns over the therapist. DD stretches the truth and has been known to exaggerate (sp?) but not in this instance. She is spot on. Of course we won't tell her that. I'm working behind the scenes to get it resolved.

[jellibeans]

RAy getting the right T is key for helping your DD... . I am glad you are advocating for her. How much time per week does dd have contact with T?

[Being Mindful]

What are the qualifications of the therapist? What is her experience and training? What degrees does she hold and is she licensed? These are all questions you can ask. If you end up looking at a different setting start a list of questions and include the above. There is a ton of information seeking that needs to be done to find the best placement and therapist.

Keep in mind that the typical early responses from our BPD kid is to blame others, especially the therapist isn't the right fit. Sometimes it is true, sometimes not. Sometimes our kids deflect and try to distract the adults around them from the real work they need to do. Keep in mind too, that not all people that we come in contact with are we going to have the right fit with. In some cases though, we have to learn by still working with that person, despite differences.

I hear your alarms going off and that's good too, just be aware of all possibilities, the truth might be somewhere in the middle.

I think it is realistic of your d to say that she isn't getting anywhere with the therapist... . it is very early in the treatment plan, therapy takes a long time. Also, there has been so much drama which seems like a lot has been in part with your d. She has been very distracted by the drama whether she will admit it or not. Hard to focus on therapy when all the other stuff is a distraction.

Hope that helps in same way... .

Remember to take good care of yourself.

[raytamtay3]

Being - It's not just my alarms that are going off, it's our CM and was exh's. As far as her credentials, she is a licenced therapist but is not certified in any particular kind of therapy. For my district CM to say what she said today after witnessing it first hand, I know I'm not over reacting and I know DD isn't either.

jellibeans - DD has therapy for 90 minutes a week. Twice a week (so 45 minutes each day). The therapist came right out and immaturally said, if DD doesn't talk, she isn't going to talk. Come on now.

[Being Mindful]

Yup, totally understand that is was other people's alarms too.

Is she is psychologist, an LPC, SW.?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Is she is psychologist, an LPC, SW.?

Honestly, I don't know. (where's the blush smiley). .

I finally ordered the Overcoming BPD book by Valerie Porr from my library (had to be shipped from another to mine) and have begun reading it. I'm only on page 10 and I'm already loving it.

[Being Mindful]

Good for you Ray on getting the book!

[raytamtay3]

Had visitation on Saturday and it went very well. DD was regulated and in an upbeat mood. She had me laughing telling me some of the adventures that have occurred there. She is a very good story teller. She hugged me long before I left and kept trying to delay me leaving. The only part I was extremely upset about is concenting my DS.  It was exh's week with him and so he brought him with him for the visit as well.

At first DS was great. He wanted to come home with me and was all over me. He's a very loving child. DD asked him to draw her a picture of her father, her, me and him so that she could put it in her room. Which he did. When there was about 20 minutes left of the visit, DS started getting bored and began making this annoying and distracting buzzing sound for attention. We kept asking him to please stop. But he would not listen. He didn't like it when I had told him that we were there to visit with DD when he kept asking me to arm wrestle him, etc. But exh engaged him.  :)D commented how my exh was talking alot last visit and asked why he wasn't this visit (sans me last visit). He was very standoffish and playing with his phone again. Which, by the way, is against the rules; you are not allowed to bring in any electronics. And I reminded him off this. Nice example he's setting for DD eh?  Anyway, DD was getting aggigated at DS. EXh wasn't doing anything about it. Even DD spoke up and asked exh if he wanted DS to be like her and to please do something about his behavior. All exh did was give him the 1-2-3 (which took him until really about the count of 10 to get to 3) and told DS he wasn't taking him the the B-Day party now after the visit (which he still did anyway. grr... . ).  Anyway, I ended up discipling DS but it wasn't effective because he knew he was going home with Daddy and not me. Guaranteed next visit, my week, he will not act like that. Why? Because I follow through on my threats. Case and point, I told DS he lost his television priviledges for two days now for his behaviour (one day for the school incidence and the other for his behaviour at the visit). That's all the leverage I have right now with him. Of course though electronics are also gone during that time (cell phone games and DS).

DS is pushing the envelope as is normal at this age. But this is the time to get him under control. But once again, DH is an obstacle because he doesn not discipline.

Oh and he ended up tearing up the picture he drew dor DD. She teared up and went in to the restroom to cry. I felt so bad. Little bugger. But rest assured, this ends now. He acts up on daddy's week  in school or during visits, he will be punished my week since daddy doesn't. It sucks that I have to do that, but I will not go down that road again.

[Being Mindful]

Hi Ray, Poor kid might be looking for some control in his life. While he can't act out like this, perhaps giving him things he can control might help. Or, he might be attention seeking... . all efforts are devoted to your d., his dad is not a consistent, reliable, constant role model, while he is somewhere in the picture just letting you know he is still here too. We had similar issues for our youngest. We sought out ways to give her some control which helped her a lot.

[raytamtay3]

Hi Ray, Poor kid might be looking for some control in his life. While he can't act out like this, perhaps giving him things he can control might help. Or, he might be attention seeking... . all efforts are devoted to your d., his dad is not a consistent, reliable, constant role model, while he is somewhere in the picture just letting you know he is still here too. We had similar issues for our youngest. We sought out ways to give her some control which helped her a lot.

Any suggetions? I've taken away his television for two days. What control could I give him?

[raytamtay3]

Had an IEP via conference call today.  They said my DD is doing exceptionally well academically. That she is the brightest in the class and has been getting 100s on her tests! I am so proud of her!

If nothing else comes out of this, at least she is getting a good education.

[Rapt Reader]

That sounds great, raytamtay3! A nice ray of sunshine for you today... .

Is your daughter likely to be proud of that accomplishment? And, if so, maybe it could alter her behavior, sorta give her a reason to be more of a leader in a good way (rather than acting out in a bad way)?

Maybe she'll be settling in and take her treatment there seriously, and get to a better attitude and understanding of herself and her troubles. Good luck 

[raytamtay3]

One can only hope Rapt!

Quick question. I received the summons for the incident that occurred at the RTC whereby DD alledgely cursed and spit on a staff member. Does anyone know if I'll be required to transport DD to and from court that day or if the RTC typically does that? Reason being is because it's at 9:00 am and the RTC is over and hour away.

[Being Mindful]

Hi Ray, Poor kid might be looking for some control in his life. While he can't act out like this, perhaps giving him things he can control might help. Or, he might be attention seeking... . all efforts are devoted to your d., his dad is not a consistent, reliable, constant role model, while he is somewhere in the picture just letting you know he is still here too. We had similar issues for our youngest. We sought out ways to give her some control which helped her a lot.

Any suggetions? I've taken away his television for two days. What control could I give him?

Let him make some decisions... . even simple things and make it a conversation. Let him know that you recognize how difficult things are for him and that everyone struggles in different ways and even though his behavior was not acceptable that you see that things are very tough for him. Let him know that you see him in all his good aspects and that you are not as available as you'd like during the chaos. Tell him you want him to have some choices about good things that would help him. Pick a day, let him decide what is for dinner (no matter how crazy, make it a big event), let him skip making his bed for a day. Find 3 hours completely devoted to him where he gets to decide how to spend it with you. Let him decide if he wants to visit his sister or not and then honor it.

That type of stuff. Be creative. Keep in mind, he could be acting out to get your attention... . even if it is the wrong kind of attention. Start recognizing the good stuff, no matter how small and when you can or feel comfortable ignore some of the smaller negative behaviors. You could even tell him when he is acting out that you recognize that he needs to find other ways to get your attention, not with bad behaviors.

Thoughts or questions?

[raytamtay3]

We pretty much do that now. For instance, he chose Tuesdays to be Taco Tuesdays. So every Tuesday he's with me, we make tacos. He had a good day at spring break camp yesterday, so we stopped off and picked up some assorted candies and rented a movie from Red Box. I told him if he is a good boy this week, he'll get a surprise at the end of the week (I bought a Happy Meal for myself last weekend and have the toy from it put away for him).

I did talk to him. I told him that I know he gets bored during visits (he likes to go), but that DD can only see us for a couple of hours a week and he has all of the other time from us the rest of the time.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Being Mindful]

Great job Ray! Can you expand on that and be intentional on conversation with him, giving him a few opportunities per week to control something, not based on a regular schedule and not tied to good behavior.

[raytamtay3]

Green... . nice.  DD gets her first home pass this Sunday for Easter Sunday from 9 - 6! I'm going to tell her if she wants to see her friends, they will need to come to the house. We'll see how that goes.

[raytamtay3]

I just got a call from a pediatrician at the RTC. DD is there because she's been having bad headaches. She told me she got into another fight last night. This time with one of her roomates. She said she accidently stepped on the girl's foot and the girl started with her and they started swinging on each other. She was crying saying how she wants to kill everyone in the house. That she never wanted to kill people as bad as she wants to kill them. That she's been trying so hard not to fight but they keep starting with her and swinging on her first. She said that restrained her before the other girl, so the girl got swings in on her to her head. Not good.

[MammaMia]

Raytam

Once again, your dd's behavior is not your fault, and she will need to deal with the consequences. Do you think subconsciously she was out to sabotage her Easter visit?  Holidays are very stressful for pwBPD. Perhaps she could not face her friends ?

I am sorry this has happened.  Remember, just go with the flow.  Do not take it personally.

[raytamtay3]

Raytam

Do you think subconsciously she was out to sabotage her Easter visit?  Holidays are very stressful for pwBPD. Perhaps she could not face her friends ?

No, she's been trying really hard to be able to come home. I can't say I blame her for defending herself. However I can blame her for how she reacts. She reinacted what happened and she was snippy with the girl after she stepped on her foot. Instead of saying a sincere 'I'm sorry', she was rude about it.

She's definetly not in a happy place emotionally today. I was given the option of getting her tomorrow from 9 - 6, or Sunday from 9 - 6. I'm hosting Easter and they don't transport for day passes. So we are talking 4 hours if I bring her home. I'd love to have her home for Easter, but now I don't know if that's feasible. I might have to go with tomorrow instead. Ugh - 4 hours... .

[jellibeans]

Ray

When your dd starts taking responsibility for her actions that is when she will be on the path to coming home. The fact that she is unable to get along says to me she is a long ways off from discharge.

When she comes home Ray... . don't over do it with the gifts... . do what you normally do... . I am not sure her friends coming over is a good idea but that is up to you. The fact that she still has friends is a plus. My dd can not maintain friendships at all and that is heartbreaking to see.

Take this time while your dd is in RTc to work on your skills and build your knowledge of this disorder. Take a class with NAMI and work on yourself as well. I hope you have a good Easter

[Being Mindful]

I agree with jellibeans about the friends and gifts. When my d. was in a RTC, we focused on family visits only. After a long time of good/safe visits with family, then we were allowing friends but by that time her friends had moved on and so had my d. The friends that she had when she entered the RTC were not a good influence thus we did not allow them to be part of the home visits and focused on just family goals first. We also had safety plans in place for visits too. We created them and d. knew exactly what to expect in advance of the visit. If she didn't think she could do it, then no visit. If the visit started to go wrong, then she knew exactly what we would do.

[raytamtay3]

jellibeans and Being - You both are right. I haven't mentioned anything to DD about friends, so maybe I'll just keep it as a family thing. Afterall it is Easter anyway.

[Being Mindful]

Hey Ray, I thought of something else that might be helpful. We told our d. in advance of what the plans were and the rules (like no friends). We were quite specific with we will pick you up at xx:xx, then going home to spend the day, since it is Easter, so and so are coming over, we will have dinner, and we will drive you back at xx:xx. No friends, no cell phone, no computers will be allowed on this day. It helped because she knew exactly what would happen when, giving her stability with knowing a schedule, who was involved, and when. Advance warning on the friends and technology were really important so that she didn't start asking, challenging us and ramping up which at the early visits were helpful because she did not have skills yet to help regulate herself.