About my own patterns

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I get stuck. I still feel love is what we need. I do my best. I hope/believe when evidence shows otherwise. I still choose pain over change, even when I know better. Feelings play great part in this, where the best of this exists, but it's also where we're hurt the most. The pattern to really focus on is balance. Especially when I'm changing my own patterns.

[myself]

I get stuck. I still feel love is what we need. I do my best. I hope/believe when evidence shows otherwise. I still choose pain over change, even when I know better. Feelings play great part in this, where the best of this exists, but it's also where we're hurt the most. The pattern to really focus on is balance. Especially when I'm changing my own patterns.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Myself,

I was just wondering how you were doing.  I'm not on here a lot as of late, but I understand what you are saying about choosing pain at times, or at least I think I do.  My ex has been heavy on my mind lately, but we have not had contact since the first week of January.  This is the longest period we've gone with no contact.  I requested it, again. 

I feel contact would set me way back at this point, as I am having some trouble moving forward with no contact.  The last we talked she was already seeing someone else.  I don't care, but I do.  I love her, but I also dislike her.  I don't feel I can be a friend to her.  It is too painful. 

What pain are you still choosing?  Contact?  This stuff is extremely difficult, and I don't judge you.  I understand.  It flat out sucks at times.  But I do have a lot of hope, too.  There are many positives in my life, but I also feel an empty hole at times.

I was thinking about love the past couple of days, and if it was strong enough to conquer this illness.  The answer is no.  Love is not enough, Myself.  I hate it, but it's true.  Maybe if we love ourselves enough, then we will find whatever it is we are searching for.  It's late, and I'm probably rambling a bit.  Keep on keeping on.   

[Suzn]

Wanting to feel loved is very human. Changing our behaviors is a process, only when we feel uncomfortable enough, will we make a change. I think balance is a good goal. Friendships, work, family... it seems when all these things are "going well" it helps us cope better with an unbalance elsewhere, such as conflict with a romantic partner. I have found when there is conflict in several of these areas coping is more difficult. How balanced is the life you've built up around you these days myself?

[maria1]

Hi Myself

I'm so sorry you are in pain right now BUT I'm very pleased to see you on the PI board.

I have been wondering why we choose pain and what makes us stop. I know that something made me not go back to my ex with BPD and I know it's saved me. I have been thinking about what that is. Here are my thoughts.

It is not so much the pain but the alleviation of the pain. It is the high we get when the pain goes away. It is the difference between the horrific pain and the beautiful alleviation of the pain. That is the drug- that is the substance that we are addicted to. What I remember clearly is sitting in my living room about a week after my ex had dumped me telling me that he needed to make the last steps of his recovery 'alone'. I was in absolute emotional agony. I NEEDED him like I needed oxygen. I texted him- I said ':)o you think we will end up together?' He replied 'I honestly don't know". I texted I was going to bed- he texted it was early for me. I said I needed 'not to be awake'.

He didn't come to alleviate the agony I was in when I couldn't bear to be conscious. He did nothing. I found out a few days later he was with his new girlfriend when he texted that.

The reason I'm telling you this story is that I learned the difference between my ex and I is that he can sit and laugh and joke while getting his needs met KNOWING he has just shot my life to pieces, knowing I'm crawling into bed not wanting to be awake. I can't do that to somebody I love and I will not be in a relationship with somebody who is capable of doing that to me. His love is not consistent enough because of the disorder. Whatever it takes I will heal from this and I won't do it again.

Your girlfriend's love is not consistent enough because she cannot take the intimacy; she has to push/pull and withdraw. But that is actually the attraction that we cannot see. It meets a need in us to feed the chemical addiction we probably began in childhood- possibly as babies. A relationship with a pwBPD gives us the high after the low but it is buried deep within us so we don't see that is what we need.

Without NC you will keep getting a little of the euphoric hit that contact does to alleviate the pain. I really do believe that this is chemical. It doesn't mean I don't believe we love them or that they love us but they cause us pain and fix it over and over again.

Your family probably did the same but to a lesser degree. We choose what is comfortable, even though it may feel incredibly uncomfortable at times. Overall the pattern is a comfortable one.

You are a smart, witty, incredible man Myself. YOU deserve so, so much more than you are allowing yourself. But you have to choose it and you have to break the addiction

(Oh and you too Phoenix Rising, while I'm at it!)

[myself]

What pain are you still choosing?  Contact?  

Love is not enough

How balanced is the life you've built up around you these days myself?

Thank you for adding in your thoughts. Yes, some of the pain I still choose to go through is still being in contact with her. We get along great, then break up, stay apart, get back together, get close, get ripped apart again by these disordered patterns. I add in to that by not fully changing myself, by trying too hard to prove myself to her, by accepting the bad behaviors, by going around things instead of dealing with them head-on. By giving in when I should stand tall. I do get stuck thinking 'love will be enough', then find I'm hurt when it's not. I believe the good words she says and then I also believe the bad ones. I feel I've come at this from just about every angle there is and it keeps winding up in a dead end. And I know it's heading that way but I choose to go along with it, so I'm helping add to my own pains. So hard to let go, though.

In other parts of my life, my job is going well, my kids are healthy and growing into interesting people, and I feel good about myself. The problems with this relationship are the main things keeping me down, so, why don't I choose real change instead of keeping the patterns going? I think Maria's really onto something with saying this becomes like an addiction. I do feel the highs and lows within the push/pull. I'm working on learning how to better ride those waves and not be so affected by them. To not add to them as much as possible. It gets my own abandonment issues coming to the surface, which gets me depressed, overly trying to hold this all together by calling her too much and etc. hoping our connection stays strong. But I also see it's hanging onto something that is harming me. The good times are great, but the bad times are horrible. I get down on myself about staying, but thinking of breaking it off leaves me feeling too alone and worried that I'd be throwing away the best chance I'll ever have at being with someone I so deeply love. But is it love or addiction? Can we be in love with what we're addicted to? I wish this was easier. When things are going well, I've never been better. It's when things are going badly where I need to really change my ways. She fits into my life, and that helps keep me balanced, but she also comes and goes too much, with too much painful turbulence involved, which knocks me off of my balance.

Thank you for the kind words, Maria. Some of this does go back to FOO issues, looking for what I didn't have before, trying to fill in those cracks, to find someone who will be honest real and loving. Having felt I did find that person, but then seeing she doesn't live up to all of that, is something I need to face. To really decide which way to go with this. Leaving her behind would show me that yes indeed she was 'bad' to me, and that's a hard thing to admit when she's also been so loving. If she could just find it in herself to stay and really work on things, we'd make it. Because I know I'm here to do my part of it. But it's up to me to find my own balance, not depend on someone else to do that for me. She's shown she can't really be counted on. It's up to me to change my own patterns so my own life is better.

[Phoenix.Rising]

But it's up to me to find my own balance, not depend on someone else to do that for me. She's shown she can't really be counted on. It's up to me to change my own patterns so my own life is better.

I couldn't have said it better, my brother.

You remind me very much of me.  I wish you peace.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Myself,

I'm glad to see you around again, I was wondering how you were doing.  I'm sorry to hear that things are challenging again in your r/s.  I really empathize with you, I can see myself in your post.  It sounds like you are still hoping that she will change - in a way that will keep you together.  It sounds like you think that by loving her perfectly and enough that it will work between you.  It seems that you don't think you can ever have a better r/s with anyone else.  

I really get that you want it to work.  And we both know that that means tools and boundaries and lots of work on your part.  Only you can decide if it's worth it and we all support you with that.  I just want to caution you that there are no guarantees.  Just like in any r/s, but perhaps moreso in this one due to the challenges that you both have.  So if you are going to make the effort, please do it for the right reasons - only you know what they are.  

If you are doing it to stave off pain, loneliness or inner work, you are putting your life and happiness in someone else's hands.  And as much as she would like to step up in the future, you don't have that now, do you?  In other words, if this is it, right here right now, is it okay?  It's all you have.

I hear that you want to change your behavior.  It sounds great, and I hope you are doing that for your own peace and happiness... .  and not because you want her to behave differently.  She may change, she may not, and if she does, it might not be the way you want her to.

Lots of    

P.S. If loving the pwBPD with all our hearts was the key to making the r/s work, none of us would be here.  

[myself]

Thanks Phoenix.Rising, peace to you too.

Thank you heartandwhole, your whole response had heart and gives me lots to think about. Because some of it is fitting myself in with her, and following the dream that love can be enough to hold it all together. Some of it is being scared and frustrated about possibly drifting away from this incredibly personal experience. The good of it was great, and helped me be a better person. The worst of it was very painful, and helped me be a better person. Still a work in progress, working on personal inventory. I feel I'm heading in the right direction, praticing proceeding with caution.

It's brought to light areas of patience I need to focus on. Not taking things so personally, keeping an eye on the bigger picture instead of wigging out about the details. This will help in all parts of my life (though it occurs more in this relationship). I'm needing to face what I feel, be myself, and act in my own best interests. Hoping, yes, to be with her. I do believe that two people, while struggling with their own issues, can help one another, helping heal each other. Help each other be better able to help themselves. I don't feel to give up on that because I see who I am, I feel my own feelings, and even if it doesn't work out, I can't think of anything better to be working on. It's where my heart is.

I know where I delude myself, too. I know it's taking a big leap of faith on a longshot that's already proven to be tumultuous. I know what you mean, heartandwhole, about is it what is happening right now? Because that IS all we really have. No. I'd say it's not. There's a good amount, but it's not there yet. Not just the relationship. What's going on with me. My patterns brought me here, and I'm thankful for that, but some of them need to change if I'm going to move on from where I am. The ones that are keeping me from being Myself are the first to go. Whatever works out then will be real.

[heartandwhole]

The good of it was great, and helped me be a better person. The worst of it was very painful, and helped me be a better person.

Yes, and it also hurt you a lot.  

Still a work in progress, working on personal inventory. I feel I'm heading in the right direction, praticing proceeding with caution.

I'm so glad that you are sharing your personal inventory with us - we are all learning.

I do believe that two people, while struggling with their own issues, can help one another, helping heal each other. Help each other be better able to help themselves. I don't feel to give up on that because I see who I am, I feel my own feelings, and even if it doesn't work out, I can't think of anything better to be working on. It's where my heart is.

I believe this, too.  And I believed this about my r/s with pwBPD, as well,  and when I shared that with my T and she told me she wanted more for me, a healthier r/s, I got annoyed.  :-(

My patterns brought me here, and I'm thankful for that, but some of them need to change if I'm going to move on from where I am. The ones that are keeping me from being Myself are the first to go. Whatever works out then will be real.

I agree, there is no choice but for us to change.  What happens after that, we can't predict.


In my relationships sometimes hope has been destructive.  It has kept me stuck in something that wasn't good for me.  Hope can be a kind of non-acceptance of what is, and at times that is what is has been for me.  I think we can only deal with what is right in front of us at any given moment.  

You are a really thoughtful and loving man, Myself.  I wish you a really fulfilling r/s with yourself first of all, and with your current love, or whoever else feels right to you.  These are the same things I wish for myself  

Keep us posted.  We are all supporting you  

[Phoenix.Rising]

Myself,  I suggest you reach out to the good folks on the Staying Board.  There is much to be gained from their experiences. 

Best,  Phoenix