Radical acceptance: Son turned up last night high as a kite.

[Lollypop]

Hi

Son turned up last night high as a kite. Looking like a homeless person. His hair is quite unbelievable. We welcomed him in and shared some time together, a few laughs. He was relaxed and told us a story about some incident that he’d experienced at his dealers house at some point in the past. We politely took part as he shared some of himself.

His story was particularly telling, it was about a pregnant pet dog who hadn’t been let out of the house for a day or so, it was shocking to us. Firstly, that our son has this entirely separate life that we find repulsive. Yes, a strong word - his life is just so dirty and seedy and also because the dog was neglected. Sadly, his only long term relationships are with the three of us as his family and the drug dealer. We are his constants.

It’s so sad. He will never change. There’s no motivation to is there. Overcomforting himself, overconsumed in drugs. It’s no life at all.

I seriously ask myself if I’ve done the right thing by nurturing a deeper and healthier relationship with us. I now reason, that left to himself he’d eventually be driven to change. He reaches a point where he misses us. I’m considering moving away.

I’m not setting a limit on him to pay us back regularly that we lent him for a car. I need to address this. I’ve avoided it. I hoped he’d do the right thing. I’m stupid because he’s selfish and we are the bottom of his priorities. So this is one frustration among the other problems we have. I’ve changed as I can see that whilst it’s important it doesn’t have to be solved today. Pick your time for battles.

I can feel a massive shift occurring in my life. Younger son will most probably go to Uni in Sept. I leave Uni in June. I want to move far away from son28. I’m tired. I guess that’s it. Understanding it will never end while son28 remains stuck.

I’m sorry this post is a bit bleak. Reality is a challenge isn’t it.

Meanwhile I continue to try to take better care of myself.

LP

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

I feel for you LP. There is a lot about my son's world that I don't like either. But this is the life he has chosen. At least for now. It sounds like you really need some space for yourself. Is there any way of creating it short of moving away?
 

[Huat]

Hello Lollypop

You certainly need a ((HUG)...and here is mine.

How difficult for a mother to look upon her son and see what you are seeing.  You have worked so hard to save your son from himself and I am sure you feel now like you (and your husband) are doing all the work...no cooperation from him.  He is languishing in his own little world.

All of us suffer from self-doubt at one point or another and this is what is happening with/to you now.  Have you been (or are you now) "stupid."  No!   Stay confident in knowing that you are the best loving Mom your son could have ever had.  You've point out the way to him, HE has decided to turn in other directions.

So now going forward...what?   Whatever you do will be well-thought-out.  There will be no "mistakes."

I am so glad you continue on here.  Your posts can get pretty raw as you document what is happening at the time.  For sure parts of your story resonates with others and that helps them in knowing they are not alone...gives them courage to carry on...the same way you do. 

You are not defeated, Lollypop, you are pausing as you gather more strength.  Hope you feel the support of this community.

Huat 

[Only Human]

I love the last line of your post, Lollypop: "Meanwhile I continue to try to take better care of myself."

I hear your struggle and, like Huat, I am glad you keep coming here to share. We are with you, with each other, through the ups and downs.

~ OH

[Lollypop]

Thanks everybody

We use the word rollercoaster a lot don’t we. It certainly is. We don’t get what we want that’s for sure.

I’ve had a good day for myself. I’m grateful for it.

I’m glad I’m here. There’s always work to do. For now, I’m having an early night - good day for myself planned tomorrow.

Thanks again for the hug.

LP 

[Lollypop]

Hi Huat

He is languishing in his own little world.

He sees this very differently of course - depending if he has a moment of truth of his reality.

He’d spout off about how brilliant his freedom is, how he isn’t chained to a desk, how he doesn’t have to conform, how he is not answerable to a partner. He rides this view for many weeks at a time, sometimes months.

His latest goal is that he’s going travelling again. I gently reminded him that he earns enough to feed a family of 4. Yes, he could save. Where does his money go, I ask? It’s the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. He tells me it’s spent on food.

He’ll do as he will. Not as he pleases. I know truly deep down he wants to kick his habit. Hes got grit now, he works incredibly hard until physically he’s spent. He loves his job.

His problem is leisure. The things is that the drugs have to be replaced by something else, something positive. Given his fear of “new”, he has no interests or hobbies. He doesn’t drink and rarely socialises in the normal way.

I’m putting this in capitals so it stands out to anybody reading this. Because it’s so so important.

We have to teach our kids how to take care of themselves.

WE DO THIS BY TAKING CARE OF OURSELVES. They watch and learn how it’s done.

Focussing on them all the time, putting their problems above ours, doing for them what they should do themselves is not healthy - for both us and them. Stop doing it. 

Today, I’m going on a portrait knife painting glass. My own life is good. I just need some physical distance from son - he’s way too close for my liking. He can’t change, so I must.

Thank you for the hugs and support.

LP

[Music Ace]

Hi LP - a quick chime in with a thanks for saying what you are truly feeling. Here, we get it ... I can't imagine expressing those same thoughts with co-workers or even friends and having them just sigh, drop their shoulders and say "you're right, this is crap and you need a break" ... and truly and deeply understand and mean it.

We sure get it here!

I wanted to put in an extra thought that has sort of been rumbling around in my brain recently; it ties into your reference of self care and that our children are watching us.

My udBPD28 drug addicted daughter enjoys one specific stream of venom when we aren't behaving how she wants, and I'm positive she's hurled it at me alone, at least 10-15 times in the last 12 months ... she will criticize me by saying "your perfect little world/life" and when she's particularly angry at her dad "your perfect husband".  She used to be able to hurt me with that ... I'd JADE .

But, LP, I'm thinking that she is observing the calmness and steadiness, the safety and consistency, ... and just perhaps she for all her blustering about how our house and community are 'jail' ... she'd like a little less drama, scary, intensity, insanity ... and a little more stable, predictable. But, she doesn't know how to get it, without giving up everything else. She can't find a balance. 

That damn black and white thinking, then toss in a drug addiction or alcohol problem, shake it up with a few mental health issues (diagnosed or otherwise) ... how the heck could they admit that they might want what we still have, let alone find their way back to it.

Like you, LP, I will keep working on me (and my relationship with my husband and other daughter - thank  goodness they exist or I would question my own sanity far more than I do) ... I will enjoy the peace that my 'boring, perfect life' offers me. This place is right for me.

As for moving away ... totally feeling that. But I implore you to dig deep and listen to your heart AND head.  Is the desire to move rooted in a wish to run away; or is the desire to move coming from  an excitement for new opportunities? Both are legitimate reasons that every single person here would understand  ... but ... in 4 months, 2 years, 10 years ... where will your headspace be?

And that is my thought process at 8:00 am on the 1st Saturday of spring break ... woohoo.

Ace

[Mirsa]

Hi Lollypop,

I too dream of running away, and I plan to do so at the first possible opportunity.  I've applied for a job that is about four hours from here.  I can still get back to the area frequently to see friends and the BPD DD if she and I both want to.  However, it's time for me to have some space and distance as well.  And I love the area I want to move to.  It's cosmopolitan and there is so much to see and explore.  There is a lot of diversity, which I love, and closer to the beach, which will be such a treat for me. 

I'm not sure my ex will allow my younger DD16 to move away with me, so I may have to wait two years until she goes to college.  But, whether it is this summer or in two years, my time in this area is limited, and I have my sights set on a fresh scene.  When I go visit the area, I just feel lighter, because of the distance between BPD DD and myself.  It's oddly freeing in some way. 

I know that I am not running away from, I am running towards.  I stood still and stayed here to support my BPD DD for three long, hard years.  Now, she's living with her father, he can support her, and I am freed to pursue my own happiness.  I'm so excited!  I can't wait and hope this happens for me in six months, not two more years.  What is your time frame?  Such an exciting time of life...

[Lollypop]

Hi Ace

Is the desire to move rooted in a wish to run away; or is the desire to move coming from  an excitement for new opportunities?

I think the desire is rooted in total radical acceptance that my son will never change. There’s been so much progress in him as he’s learnt to live semi-independently. Now he’s stuck. I’d say it’s been about 3 months now. He’s only just managing his life to be honest.

He refuses to take the step to get his own place because it’s a waste of money. The house he lives in is up for sale - he will have to move on at some point.

Our younger son is a golden child and will, I’m sure, move away. I think I’m scared of it just being the three of us left. Son28 is reliant on us to be around.

I’m ready for a new living experience. I fancy being in a town with more going on. I have to be patient because I need to get the next 6 months  over before we can start thinking about it.

Meanwhile, son28 drudgery will continue.

I’m sick of it. He smells. He looks a complete mess. He manages to hold down his job so that’s a blessing.


Mirsa, your life sounds like it is indeed turning towards something. I’m “in between” and I don’t like it!

LP

[Music Ace]

 LP - you sound like you've simply had enough and you see his progress stagnating ... and you're done being a part of it or even just watching it.

I’m ready for a new living experience. I fancy being in a town with more going on. I have to be patient because I need to get the next 6 months  over before we can start thinking about it.

You definitely sound like you are thinking of taking care of you and ALL of your family. I'm so glad to hear your answer. You have 6 months to get through, and you'll do it ... ONE DAY AT A TIME. And if you change your mind or modify your plans, you have those 6 months to pick a good spot to land or maybe just 'try'.

We, too, have a golden child. As retirement approaches, we know we have different opportunities.  We may move closer to where she settles as there will be a possibility of grandchildren!

Our udBPDd28 lives on her own (is an obese militant vegan who avoids leaving her place unless there is a rave) but we do not know where she lives anymore. My husband's heart broke and his anxiety went through the roof every time we went to visit when we have been invited in the past (because of disgusting conditions she chose to live in). Right now, I believe he is probably beyond grateful for no contact from her with him.

We planned to move after retirement. Then chaos hit our world when our 28d's husband died. We decided to put any move on hold to be available for our daughter widowed at 27. But with his death, we were no longer buffered by him (although he no longer had to suffer her tirades) ; we began to experience what I believe he may well have been living with for 7 years (he, too was an addict ... and equally brilliant as she). After the viciousness, my husband wanted to get even further away quicker. But we came to believe this was now a reactive (aka knee-jerk reaction) decision.

We have since decided to stay put. We will move on our terms for our reasons when we are ready. Should she come to our home with vengeance or destruction in mind, I will have very little difficulty calling the police (welllllll - I say that fairly confidently today at this moment in time LOL)

So ... that may explain LP, why I asked you to reflect on your reasons ... which you clearly already have!  I suspect you may feel much like my husband who says, "I'll go where I'm wanted and welcomed" ... and for us, that is golden child daughter #2.

I hope you have fun with golden child son #2 as you all experience his excitement of planning his next academic adventure! Simple pleasures eh? Take 'em when we get 'em.

Wishing you well, LP ... from the bottom of my heart.

Ace

[Lollypop]

Hi Ace

I can’t tell you how your post has moved me this morning. You totally get it, you get me.

Yes, I’m sick and tired of watching. I can feel us accepting that our future lot is sticking around with son28 (for him, not us). I can see son18 moving away - and yes, there will be grandchildren eventually with him.

I never thought I’d ever get that chance. I accepted quite early on that grandmotherhood will not be my path. This is why I chose to go back to education so I have something in my life to focus on in retirement. Funnily, opportunities are opening up for me right now and I’m seizing them.

Son28 has decided to have no children, he knows he’s not capable of being a good parent. I’m thankful but aware that can easily change - highly unlikely given that no decent girl would be seen dead with him. Funny, I remember writing those exact same words when I arrived here 4 years ago.

Son28 doesn’t seek treatment. He’s an addict. There’s no hope then (for now).

I smiled at your description of your daughter. They’d be a pair together wouldn’t they!

You’re absolurely right. One day at a time over the next 6 months.

Your daughter’s had it tough. I think it’s marvellous you’ve stepped in to try and help. She’s lucky to have you both.

How long before you retire?

LP

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

LP  oh man Radical Acceptance indeed!

I seriously ask myself if I’ve done the right thing by nurturing a deeper and healthier relationship with us. I now reason, that left to himself he’d eventually be driven to change. He reaches a point where he misses us. I’m considering moving away.

Your nurturing a deeper and healthier relationship got DS out his black mood, a job, financial skills, out of your house. It got you unstuck at the time, though I hear your fear and frustration he'll be increasingly dependant on you fills you with dread... here is a story for you.

I recently had a conversation with someone whose brother while not on drugs, not working either has spent the last 40 years doing nothing, absolutely nothing LP. Lives alone, has no friends, does not socialise outside the family. Early days the parents had expectations for him to seek help, gain employment, look after his personal hygiene, wellbeing etc. Never happened. His life is the same today as it was then, it took decades for the family to accept that's his choice, he's totally resistant to any change. The parents allowed their son to visit them everyday to their passing days. Here is the lesson, he's doing just fine without them.

I'm glad to hear you are thinking about your future and your needs, moving to where there is more happening, a larger community sounds super exciting   

WDx

[Lollypop]

Oh WD

Here is the lesson, he's doing just fine without them.

such wise, wise words.

We’ve had a family Sunday dinner today. Everybody laughed and enjoy our time together. It seems son28 is now on Tinder and eagerly looking for a partner and a family. He’s very concerned about his sugar addiction. Seriously? !

That young man is completely potty. He jumped to contradictory views in one sentence. It really is no surprise he struggles. We genuinely warmly laughed together.!

Oh yes, he pays us tomorrow. Perfectly sanely he said, I know I’ve been rubbish for a few months but I’m back on it now. So don’t worry.”

Rollercoaster springs to mind.

How are you WD? Do you have longer plans for yourself?

LP

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

He jumped to contradictory views in one sentence. It really is no surprise he struggles.

Does DS show any awareness of this?   

And no wonder it's a challenge for you to keep up with where he is in his thinking, feelings about things...

My long term plans... are a long way away for now. I plan to do some travelling LP and meet up, stayover with friends I've worked with over the last 30 years, call it a long holiday 

WDx

[yoyobutterfly]

Lollypop, I’m glad you’re here too. And glad you’re taking care of yourself, that you’re creating opportunities for yourself, and you’re taking advantage of those opportunities.

I don’t have much to add beyond that, other than your recent thoughts has helped me tremendously through this forum. You're appreciated by me. I’m not alone. You’re not alone.

And, as others have stated, you’re not stupid. You’ve done the best you can in a very difficult situation. Where I am, I certainly don’t know what the right decisions are from day-to-day (and sometimes I wonder if there even is a “right” decision….)

I so understand the desire to get away. I fantasize about a studio apartment in a city I’ve never been to, a brand new place. I imagine the layout of my apartment. Where the kitchen is, the bathroom, the balcony where I’ll sit and have a glass of wine. The café down the street I’ll frequent. The welcomed boredom, peace, lack of drama. The control over my day-to-day life. The respite from constantly questioning whether what I'm doing is right, whether I'm a good mom, the constant feeling that I'm in a no-win situation. I feel guilty about these elaborate child-free fantasies, as I do love my kids, but it’s so HARD. And my kids are of an age where these are just fantasies. But maybe someday…..

[Lollypop]

Hi yo-yo and BPD famalam

I think we’re supposed to raise our kids so they can fly out of the nest. We let them go, after a little nudge here and there. Somehow we get kids that agitate, kick up a storm and resist at every step and they don’t want to leave.  

Whatever their lives turn out like, whether they can work or not, have a relationship or not, whether they bounce around from drama to drama or strive hard through therapy - they have to live their own life. They have to fund themselves - through salary or benefits. That’s my reality because we cannot fund our adult children’s lives, nor should we.

We have to be grown up enough to understand that life isn’t easy, it’s certainly not fair and we have to plough on regardless. We have a choice (as wise Huat reminds of us) - stay in your pitty party or choose a more positive life.

Today: I’m thinking of my radical acceptance of my son’s choices.

The three of us watch with love, although I’ve noticed son18 is excellent at setting boundaries without SET and son28  calmly accepts them. That’s interesting isn’t it?

It’s really got me thinking about my overhelping role I’ve played - it’s like son28 was programmed to take advantage and have a sense of entitlement, sadly, by me!

I met with my friends yesterday. They look aghast when they asked me perfectly reasonable questions about my younger son. How’s his driving lessons going?  How’s it going with his gf?  Uhm...I’m not sure...OK I think.  I’m just not that involved any more in his life. Don’t get me wrong, we connect, we have a laugh, we share - this is where my focus is.

Son28 has been on two dates. The three of us are interested to know how it’s sll gone.

Son18 had to deal with a conversation at work yesterday. We live in a small town. Son18 had already had to complain to his manager who had gossiped about son28 to another member of staff claiming son28 was a drug dealer. Son18 dealt with it on his own and told us afterwards. Yesterday, a colleague said he’d seen son28 in a local town meeting up with a woman and said “he looked a complete mess, his hair everywhere and he had a dirty top on.”.  This was a horrible thing to say. Son18 obviously prickled because he told me after his shift. I didn’t validate as I should. I’ll do a re-do later tonight.

Others make judgements and comments about our non-conforming kids. It’s part of the territory.

I should leave it. But I’m promising myself that the next time this guy gives me a cheery hello and asks about my son28’s Welfare to at least consider saying something. I know he really likes son28 - has it not occurred to him that when people dress like a homeless person (despite them working) that this is a clue that they may have some mental health issues?

Just having a little vent here.

Looking forward to a walk with the dogs in the sunshine. Yes, it’s here for the first time in weeks. Sunday dinner later. Prepare for my week.

Let’s make today a good day if we can for ourselves if we can. We get to hear all about the dates, emotionally support him because he’ll be feeling a mixture of emotions - mostly worry if he likes one of them. Bless.

LP

Ps. Yo-yo. I like the sound of your alternative life! But you know your kids would find you! 

[yoyobutterfly]

Lollypop, you’re so good at reminding me to think about myself – thanks for that! And yes, if I escaped my kids would find me, and honestly, I’d want them to. But I can still fantasize… I’m coming to terms with everything you say about our kids having to live their own lives. With mine just getting towards adulthood, it’s so hard as I’m used to being able to fix/make decisions for them, but as they become teenagers, this is less and less effective or appropriate.

Sounds like your Son18 has to deal with some difficult stuff, but also that, even at 18, he’s connected with you, and he’s got some tools to deal with things going on with Son28. It also sounds like you’ve helped him develop some of those tools. We’re not perfect (I recently went on a “what about me? rant on poor non-BP Daughter16, and had to undo that damage with a later conversation….). It sounds to me that your kids, both of them, are lucky to have you.

[Lollypop]

what about me?

Oh me too!

If we give ourselves the time we need we cope better and are less likely to rant!

It not easy though. I totally get that.

LP.

[incadove]

Oh, Lollypop - so much pain that you want to cut the cord, I have felt that.

I think you can cut the one you have, but you needn't cut all of them, or move away.

Can you set a boundary with him, to only speak about constructive things that do not give you pain?  Maybe there are parts of his life you do not want to share, that you are not open to sharing.  That is ok. 

What if you only engaged him in ways that you genuinely and fully want to?  Perhaps only talking about his gains in perspective, if any; or perhaps any tiny positive thing he is doing, if he likes your food, or only about positive things you are doing?  You could invite him to something just a tiny bit mind-opening, even a good movie, and talk about that - and just express your sadness when he starts to talk about the other things.  Not total rejection or repulsion, but just if you immediately express your genuine sadness he may be sensitive enough to stop there.  It is probably good for him to hear as much of your genuine reaction as he can take.

Remember, it is to his benefit to have you actually want to be part of his life.  So setting enough of a boundary that the contact you do have is positive, is actually completely beneficial to him as well as to you.

And do self-care, and be proud of how hard you have worked for him!  So much learning and growth to learn to deal with it, and you really have gotten over some major hurdles that looked awfully high at the time.   

[Lollypop]

Hi Inca

express your sadness when he starts to talk about the other things

Yes, I can do this I think. Such wise words.

Son28 is growing and has started dating again. I’m glad he’s worked out a change is needed. For him, it’s seeking a relationship rather than focusing on his living situation.

We’ve all relaxed around one another and I think I’ve slipped a little in protecting myself. So I’ll try what you’ve said. Also, I noticed H on Sunday was sharp with son28 for no reason. He was irritated when son28 was excited and telling us about his date and he couldn’t get his words out. H was sharp with me and son18 yesterday - I know H is feeling frustrated too as this stage we’re in. This is tiny stuff but I know from experience how it can build and impact on the atmosphere at home.

We’ve all worked hard and I’m learning that life needs constant nurture.

Thank you

LP

[smallbluething]

I’m putting this in capitals so it stands out to anybody reading this. Because it’s so so important.

We have to teach our kids how to take care of themselves.

WE DO THIS BY TAKING CARE OF OURSELVES. They watch and learn how it’s done.

Focussing on them all the time, putting their problems above ours, doing for them what they should do themselves is not healthy - for both us and them. Stop doing it. 

Today, I’m going on a portrait knife painting glass. My own life is good. I just need some physical distance from son - he’s way too close for my liking. He can’t change, so I must.

I so needed to read this today - thank you for these wise words.

This evening I'm going to dinner with some old friends and forgetting about DD21 for a while.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

  smallbluething

I’m glad to hear you took some time out for yourself and I hope it was fun.  Lesson 2 - repeat Lesson 1!

I was so unhappy. It felt it was selfish to put myself first. I thought my role was that I had to fix everybody’s problems. All I had to do was work harder at it then I’d be happy.   All of these are false.

The truth is that I matter. I have my own life and I can live it well alongside my Adult BPD son, despite the problems. It’s all about balance and open hearted emotional support. We love them but we have to live for ourselves so they learn how that’s done.

The world does not revolve around them.

What you going to do next ? Ha!

LP