What happened to my friends?

[BowlOfPetunias]

I have recently been wondering if my wife's BPD traits had something to do with two of my female friends cutting me off without any explanation.

I knew L since college.  My wife seemed to like her, and she even served as the usher in our wedding.  A little while after the wedding, L came to visit us.  My wife complained about how it looked like we were flirting when I talked to L.  Let's begin with I NEVER FLIRT--I am very introverted.  I assured her there was nothing going on.

I maintained the friendship with L for a few years.  She drove me to my parent's house the night before my mother died.  One day, our elderly dog finally died.  L was also a dog person, so I called to tell her about it.  She said she could not talk.  She never responded to any phone calls or e-mails asking what had happened.  (My wife did include her in holiday card lists after this and expressed confusion about why she did not respond.)

I met H while carrying out dissertation research in a foreign country.  H was heading up an NGO related to my work and engaged to a local man.  My wife became extremely jealous because I was having lunch with H--a colleague working on the same issues as me--and we got into a big long distance phone fight.  During this time, my wife thought nothing of going out dancing without me and she told me she even kissed another guy, although she said he was gay.  We were friends with H after she came back to the U.S. and settled in my area.  She got married to her boyfriend from the other country.  Shortly after we found out that she was getting a divorce, however, she cut me off.  Again, no responses or explanations of what happened.  I did run into her once at an event, but I have not had any other contact with H.

I am wondering if my wife either implicitly or explicitly gave these friends messages that she was jealous/hostile and that they should stay away.

I don't have a lot of friends, and I was particularly hurt when L cut me off because she was one of the few college I friends I still had.  In fact, she was the only college friend that went to our wedding.  (Granted, it was a destination wedding.)

My wife insists on calling her friends "our friends," even though one of them arranged a private meeting with me to explain that he did not like me and wanted me to change my behavior (my introverted nature = rudeness) if our wives were going to keep having the two families hang out together.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

Ouch  It hurts to lose friends.

Would you be comfortable asking L and H if you did something to affect the friendship? Maybe direct is best? Otherwise, it seems easy to speculate and draw conclusions, even if they are well-founded conclusions.

What are your thoughts?

LnL

[Notwendy]

As someone who has grown up with guy buddies, I found it difficult to maintain such kinds of friendships after marriage regardless of if the spouse has BPD or not.

One of my guy buddies in college got married while we were in school. There was nothing between us nor was this to be- on both our parts. But we would study together, go for coffee breaks. But after the wedding, this had to change- and not just because of the wife but because of my values too.

I can't call up a married man to go get coffee or study with me. It just isn't right. Now that I am married, I wouldn't do that or like that. It isn't jealousy, but the fact that priorities change, what is socially acceptable as single people is just different.

There is also the concept of boundaries. If we want to protect something, we need to have a boundary about that. Affairs don't usually start with meeting a stranger. They start with two people being emotionally closer and confiding in each other. So where do we cross the line? That can be fuzzy.

My childhood guy buddies live a distance from me, so I have only seen them on occasion, in family groups. They are happily married to wonderful spouses. They know I am always their friend- but I respect their marriages.

Perhaps one difference is that, their wives do not have BPD and we have become friends over time. Because we are friends, it makes it easier to stay in touch with the family as a unit. If I got any vibes from them that they were uncomfortable, I would keep my distance, out of concern for my friend. I wouldn't want to cause any strife for them.

So to answer your question- I think marriage changes these kinds of friendships regardless.  Female friends who care for you would respect your marriage and if your wife was welcoming- willing to be friends with them, they would stay closer. But she doesn't need to do much to give out the vibe "stay away" and I surely would if I got that "vibe".

[sad but wiser]

I agree with Notwendy.  It is a woman thing that we don't get too close to our friends' husbands or stay too close to guy friends after they are married.  We work differently from men.  With most women, emotional bonding = safety = turn on.  In other words, talking about life with a man and sharing projects and such can lead quickly to sexual feelings.  That just isn't acceptable in women culture, so we get stand-offish.

[Notwendy]

I would say it is a "woman thing" for women who respect boundaries.


Which brings me back to the female friends. Do you think you were leaning on them emotionally when that was lacking in your marriage? Because someone with boundaries would sense that, and want to not get into that.

And female friends who ignore such boundaries might lead to a complicated situation.

[BowlOfPetunias]

1. These friends cut me off after I had already been married for at least 10 years, so marriage did not change it.  In fact, I was married before I ever met H.

2. I did not randomly call either of them up for just-us events.  My wife was involved in all of the times I saw them.

3. No, I was not dealing with the problems in my marriage with them.  I was in denial at that point.  I never discussed any problems with them.

4. The things that I did lean on them for emotional support were the death of my mother, the impending death of my father (L cut off contact just before he died), and the death of our dog.  L was also a dog person, so it made sense to reach out to her.

[BowlOfPetunias]

Oh, and I did discuss my job search with them--I had a period of un/underemployment after moving back to my home state after a visiting professor position ended. 

[Notwendy]

I think since this concerns you, instead of wondering about it, it makes sense to ask.

There could be all kinds of things going on. I have a buddy from childhood who didn't seem responsive. Eventually I learned that he struggled with depression. He wasn't up to being friends with anyone at the time.

Your friend could have many reasons, some not having anything to do with you. Or it could be you or your wife.

Or she may sense something even if you were in denial and not know what it was.

So, send an e mail. Something light- hearted but to the point- so she knows the intent of the email.

Hi Friend,
I hope all is going well with you. I have not heard from you in a while. I just wanted to let you know that I value our friendship and hope I have not done or said anything to damage that. If I have, I would welcome the chance to make amends. I hope to hear back from you and send you my best wishes.

Petunias.

She may or may not respond, but at least you tried.

[Grey Kitty]

It is disturbing for a close friend to disappear without any explanation. It hurts.

That said, if a person "dumps" you, whether a friend, or a spouse, they don't actually owe you any reason or explanation. Yes, you want it, but they don't have to give it to you.

An email (like notwendy's example) asking is an excellent idea. Who knows if you will get an answer, but asking seems good.

Try not to drive yourself nuts guessing what could be happening... .I was thinking about the possibilities, many of which are VERY unlikely... .but you can't really know:

• Dozens of things having nothing to do with anybody's spouse or you, ranging from depression to being really busy at work... .
• You said or did something that upset her. (Which didn't involve anything flirtatious)
• Your friend decided that the risk of appearing inappropriate having an intimate friendship with a guy didn't fit with her values (Like NW or SBW's examples).
• Your friend does feel some attraction to you, and needs to back away from you, so she does what she knows is the right thing for her marriage. Or to protect your marriage.
• Your friend does feel some attraction to you. She and her husband actually have an open marriage (unknown to you!), but she's unwilling to risk telling you for some reason. (Perhaps she could guess how bad an idea that would be regarding your wife!)
• Your friend misinterpreted something you did as flirting with her, and backed away for safety and her marriage and yours.
• Your friend's spouse is jealous, and asked your friend to cut you off.
• Your friend's spouse is jealous, and she decided to cut you off (without her spouse knowing) for peace in her marriage.
• Your spouse could have indicated that she was jealous and to steer clear of you, either directly, or in subtle/indirect ways to your friend.

If you think about that list, you can see a few possibilities where an honest answer on her part would be the wrong thing. And others where an honest answer would be a good thing.