When you are treated as a 2nd class citizen

[Ironmanrises]

In the devaluation phase in both rounds with my exUBPDgf... . I noticed that as time progressed in that stage, she would treat everyone else around her in her life significantly better then me. Almost like a direct correlation.

In round 2 of relationship... . She expressed hatred towards her mother(possible UBPD) while in idealization phase with me. Kept complaining to me how badly her mother would treat her and what not. Was afraid her mother would "cut her out of her life." I tried to console her.

That soon ended when she was triggered in the devaluation phase.

That hatred towards her mother quickly lessened. Almost like she began to idealize her. Even started buying her presents, for example.

While that hatred was now targeted at me.

At the same time in idealization phase, she expressed anger that her bff was "abandoning her". Complained about it to me constantly. I tried to console her.

As soon as she was triggered in the devaluation phase, all of a sudden her bff was "no longer abandoning her". They were the best of friends again.

Her attention now started shifting to her best friend again.

All the while, her hatred towards me increased.

Time spent speaking with me lessened while it increased towards bff and others in her life.

Even mere friends of hers, who contributed nothing worthwhile were showered with attention.

All the attention i used to get, was reduced and reduced.

If i said anything to her about that, her response "you are too needy."

All of these people were getting attention that was once reserved for me.

She was getting the same amount of attention from me throughout.

Made no difference.

Whether there was another guy in the picture that was getting this attention too... . I do not know. But i do know her mother and bff replaced me in a sense.

I did far more for her then both combined.

I would travel after work 5 hours by bus to see her. Dead tired. She in outskirts of Boston, me in Long Island, NY.

Made no difference.

She thought those 2 people were going to abandon her.

She abandoned me in return.

The one who never left her side. It hurts.

Outcome at the end. She left.

[snappafcw]

Ironman I couldn't have written this any different myself... . I'm curious for feedback on the exact same thing. During my second recycle I guess you would call it My uBPDexgf was complaining about how her mum would treat her ect and not let her be a grown woman ect... . She would also constantly mention her best friend would let her down or lie to her. I would always listen to her venting and be supportive. When it came to being devalued and ready for the breakup she did what seemed like idalize her mother and best friend again. Id even ask her after all you say your best friend has done to you why do you show no knowlegement to me yet you post pics all over social media ect about how amazing your best friend is... . She would say her best friend is the only thing thats been consistent in her life and when it came to her mum she would get angry and defensive saying "what are you talking about she has always been there for me" I couldn't rationalize with her and then she left. Part of me thinks she really did love me but she started hating me because of both her illness and the fact that I couldn't live up to her mum (who i never got to meets) expectations on who she should be involved with. just sad.

[snappafcw]

Oh and just so you know my ex left her boyfriend to start dating me (she said he was abusive and i fell for it) and then when we first started dating her best friend started seeing a new guy... . She was afraid to be along guess thats where i filled the need.

[Ironmanrises]

Snap,

Wow. How scarily similar. She would post the same kinds of things about her bff all over her facebook and instagram too. Literally. About how an amazing friend she is, and what not.

Her mother whom i never got to meet, hated me. I never had any interaction with her but that woman hated me. Called me "gay" by a picture she saw of me on facebook(i cant make this stuff up) and had it "confirmed" by a "gay" friend of hers. I have to laugh as i remember this but that is what was said.

Mind you, i would travel 5 hours after work by bus to see her. I must be "gay"  

When the devaluation phase started in round 2, i started to not want to have sex with my exUBPDgf. The projectiles she would fire at me would literally kill any desire i had for her.

Dont get me wrong, my exUBPDgf is incredibly beautiful and sexy. I just cant have intimacy with someone who cut me down from all angles. Killed my sex drive.

How did she interpret this sexual withdrawal from me?

Her response, " my mother was right, she doesnt even know you, you myst be gay."

I wanted to scream.

I know your sadness.

I tumble still.

[musicfan42]

Id even ask her after all you say your best friend has done to you why do you show no knowlegement to me yet you post pics all over social media ect about how amazing your best friend is... . She would say her best friend is the only thing thats been consistent in her life and when it came to her mum she would get angry and defensive saying "what are you talking about she has always been there for me"

I think this is just something women do to be honest. I don't mean it in a bad way however men and women are different in a number of ways really. I've complained about my family to my new boyfriend and he made the mistake of giving his opinion on it.   He probably thought that he was taking my side but I felt that he was judging my family.   I got very defensive about it because even though I might fall out with them at times, they're still my family. My loyalty is still to them. I'm not saying it makes sense but that's just how it is! I can complain about them but other people can't! If someone else makes a rude comment about my family, I will stand up for them. A lot of it is about pride and that whole thing of "blood being thicker than water". There is some truth in that saying.

If someone is your best friend, then they might feel like family to you so that's possibly why your borderline ex defended her friend too.

If someone is complaining about their best friend/mother, they want you to listen and be non-judgmental. If a woman is having trouble with friends/family etc, stay out of it... it's none of your business... she will resolve it yourself.

Men tend to be more solution-focused... wanting an answer/solution to everything whereas a lot of the time, women want to be heard and understood... they want to feel soothed as opposed to feeling like the man is solving their problem for them. This is a generalization, I know, however there is a lot of truth in it. So this type of thing is one time when validation would come in handy. If you say something like "oh that sounds tough-how are you feeling?" then any woman will think you're so sensitive/caring etc because that's all they want anyways.

[snappafcw]

The only difference is my ex was mainly the passive aggressive type... . Would just leave out a lot of information and would ignore me for hours or days and if I caught her out on something she would just go silent and if i pushed it burst into tears to try and make me stop... . There was no communicating with her.

[snappafcw]

For the record musicfan i actually agree with you... . to a point. Sometimes i admit i would look for a solution... . Most of the times i would just listen with a non judgemental ear but some of the things she would tell me were horrid (like her bff was caught trying to steal money from her mums wallet) I would never bury her best friend or her mum im not like that. But I would let her know I thought it was pretty slack of them to mistreat her... .

[Ironmanrises]

Snap,

There was no communicating with her.

I know exactly how that is.

She no longer registered your words. You were saying x, y,z, and what not... .

On her radar... . however... . What was being registered... . was , j, 2,etc.

In other words... . scrambled information.

And that is what they go by.

And that is what they make their decisions by.

Absolutely saddening.

[musicfan42]

The only difference is my ex was mainly the passive aggressive type... . Would just leave out a lot of information and would ignore me for hours or days and if I caught her out on something she would just go silent and if i pushed it burst into tears to try and make me stop... . There was no communicating with her.

Hmm... it sounds like your ex was lying to you. "Leaving out a lot of information" and "if I caught her out on something" sound like lying. People who lie a lot don't like communicating because they don't want to be caught out on something... they tend to give very vague, weak reasons. Sort of like a politician-never being able to give a straight answer.

I don't want to rub salt in your wound here but that's just not normal behavior-it's definitely not a sign of an honest person. And it does make me wonder whether her accusations of the bff trying to steal her mum's money actually happened. I don't know you or your ex-I'm just going on what you've said here... I'm just giving my gut instinct reaction here really.

I think that boundaries also comes into this. I mentioned "if a woman is having trouble with friends/family etc, stay out of it... it's none of your business". That is a boundary in itself-not trying to rescue/caretake the woman and understanding that she is responsible for solving her own problems. I mentioned validation but the thing is, that's all you're obliged to give. You can give someone moral support but you can't make their problems go away. Your ex had relationship issues with a few different people and it was her job to solve it.

[snappafcw]

And another thing... . it was always about her... . her problems... . her needing to vent... . her needing support. I would always lend an ear and disregard my needs. I think I was a very strong, very kind and very good man but looking back on it now also very stupid.

[Ironmanrises]

Snap,

You arent stupid.

You cared for and loved a woman with a disorder.

I know how you feel. It was very similar for me too. The conversations were one way monologues by my exUBPgf on far too many occasions. Sometimes i would try and get a word in. Didnt matter. She would continue talking.

Towards the end, even complained that i wouldnt add to our conversations.

Right. How was i supposed to when i wasnt allowed to speak.

So damaging.

So many things she couldnt or wouldnt see. Yet i had to pay for the consequences of that too.

[Hazelrah]

Men tend to be more solution-focused... wanting an answer/solution to everything whereas a lot of the time, women want to be heard and understood... they want to feel soothed as opposed to feeling like the man is solving their problem for them. This is a generalization, I know, however there is a lot of truth in it. So this type of thing is one time when validation would come in handy. If you say something like "oh that sounds tough-how are you feeling?" then any woman will think you're so sensitive/caring etc because that's all they want anyways.

Good point, Musicfan.  This is actually something I learned a long time ago, and really worked hard to follow as best I could, despite my propensity for problem-solving.  As my W was always involved in some sort of emotional turmoil or other sort of drama, she was always very appreciative of the fact I could listen and commiserate, without trying to out-and-out fix everything.  It was one of the things she most valued about me, and when I was painted white, it made me her 'Superman'. 

Still an important thing to remember, though... . that women sometimes simply just want to be listened to.

[snappafcw]

Well there you go... . Another thing i screwed up

[Moonie75]

My ex had a very hot/cold relationship with her bipolar sister. problem was her sister moved to a new house just a couple of streets away & my ex spending more time with a bipolar sibling seemed to make my ex's BPD condition more previlant. When sis was good I was treated not so good, when sis was bad I had it a bit easier.

But the serious devaluing stuff only came when she was idealizing a new man. AND, that always happened soon after we'd been away together or if something had brought us closer. When I look back, the last 4 years played out almost the same each year with similar problems at same times as year before, but got worse each year round.

God it's frustrating to look back & see what I tolerated!

[Ironmanrises]

How can you validate someone whose position is constantly flip flopping?

If i am trying to listen to you and be there for you because person A is doing this to you and then all of a sudden Person A is getting preferential treatment from you while now you are on the receiving end of what Person A was getting before. Get my drift?

[Ironmanrises]

Moonie,

I can feel your frustration. We all know that pain.

[snappafcw]

Thats a fair call. Hazelrah and Musicfan have a very rational point. However BPD is not rational the rules seem to always be changing.

[Ironmanrises]

Rules seem to always be changing... . Yes.

And we pay the consequences regardless.

[musicfan42]

Thats a fair call. Hazelrah and Musicfan have a very rational point. However BPD is not rational the rules seem to always be changing.

Yup-I was really thinking of myself or the average woman out there as opposed to a woman with BPD.

I had to think of my BPD ex there and yup, he didn't have a firm grip on reality-on what was actually happening. There was one time when he was raging at me, accusing me of being abusive. That was the point when I thought "no, this is just an abusive relationship... he's abusing me emotionally here" and I ended the relationship so I wasn't really with my BPD ex for very long. I recognized that I'd been codependent in other relationships though and knew that I needed to work on myself more and that's why I'm really here.

[Hazelrah]

Well there you go... . Another thing i screwed up

Don't look it at like that, snap.  (1) It was a long time before I actually learned that lesson... . (2) as Musicfan pointed out, fixing things is a trait inherent in many men... . (3) I still find myself in the same position as you, despite having this piece of sage wisdom.

[Hazelrah]

Rules seem to always be changing... . Yes.

And we pay the consequences regardless.

Very true.  I remember saying these words to my W a number of times during one of our 'disharmonies'... . "I never know the right thing to do.  The rules are always changing."

[KHC_33]

Rules seem to always be changing... . Yes.

And we pay the consequences regardless.

Very true.  I remember saying these words to my W a number of times during one of our 'disharmonies'... . "I never know the right thing to do.  The rules are always changing."

Yes and it even changes for kids too. Brutal. No stability at all. My children and I could be so in sync with one another and he would just snap like a tightly wound cord (he created chaos) and I think some of it he enjoyed (the rush).

[Ironmanrises]

Reg,

I know that feeling too. So uncomfortable.

KHC,

My exUBPDgf has 2 sons from a much earlier experience. During my second round in a relationship with her, that was when i finally met her kids. 2 beautiful sons.

I saw firsthand how she would lash out at them. For even minor offenses.

The instability... . Was awful.

I am really sorry you went through that.

[KHC_33]

Reg,

I know that feeling too. So uncomfortable.

KHC,

My exUBPDgf has 2 sons from a much earlier experience. During my second round in a relationship with her, that was when i finally met her kids. 2 beautiful sons.

I saw firsthand how she would lash out at them. For even minor offenses.

The instability... . Was awful.

I am really sorry you went through that.

Yea I'm sorry I didn't leave sooner... my oldest will be going for counseling very soon... I'm the one that was suppose to protext  I just thought I could shield them. Boy how wrong was I? I always. Took my daughters side... I never ever backed down when it came to them. Hence the broken furnitures in our house... he felt I was strictly loyal to them & hated it. Just too bad! I told him always will be... deal with it. My kids will triumph him any day.

[Clearmind]

Round 2? Surely by Round 2 we know what to expect - yet we went back for Round 2!

Ironman... . what part of over extending yourself is her fault?

[Ironmanrises]

KHC,

I can imagine how that must eat away at you.


Clearmind,

Yes. I actually watched her disorder play out in round 2.

I was present in her house when she was first triggered into the devaluation phase.

I saw how her "nice" side vacated/disappeared from her eyes as the morph occurred. It hurt me really badly to witness that.

I knew what was going to follow in x period of time.

I was powerless to stop it.

I knew i had compromised myself by letting her back in. That look in her eyes on that day... . her treatment of me for the next 3 months of devaluation was a reminder of my foolish decision.

My self esteem decreased with each shot she launched at me.

I overextended myself, yes. Overcompensated, yes.

She was aware of her behavior.

She knew the risk i took in letting her back in... . well on some level she knew.

None of that made any difference.

She knows how to get to me... . as you can see i let her back in.

She will try again.

I have taken protective measures to prevent that.