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 1 
 on: November 04, 2026, 10:32:09 AM  
Started by maxsterling - Last post by Notwendy
I think parenting the children is an important aspect here but it's more than that. BPD is on a spectrum and some pwBPD are more functional than others, but Max's wife, like my mother, is very impacted by it.

The kids need parenting now, but eventually will grow up and be independent adults. For Max's wife- her current functioning ability and her emotional age at age 50 is how she is going to be. People can learn skills at any age but her level of mental health also impacts this. I think it's fair to say her ability to manage on her own is very limited. That her mental health issues were significant enough to be qualified for SSI also suggests this.

Max's dilemma is probably similar to my father's- which is balancing ones own well being with the limit of what one can manage ethically- letting a person who can not function on their own fend for themselves. Another complication is that, even with this level of disorder, they retain the status of legally competent and so we have little control over their actions.

To me there are two choices, divorce or damage control. At the moment, divorce is not a consideration, so the default is damage control, what is possible. While we don't know what options Max has, some sugggestions have been to consult an attorney for information about the divorce and custody questions, so the information is known if it ever comes to that. Keep some funds in a separate bank account. It would still be counted as marital property but it would protect them from your wife's spending, and ways to keep your own peace and protect the children.

I think seeing the wife's wanting to have a GF was a form of gaining peace as if she was focused on someone else, it would be a reprieve in the drama. However, it also showed you what doesn't work. She was unable to maintain an apartment or a relationship. An apartment is an extra expense. Also you know that the latest "focus" on what she wants isn't a solution to her issues, even if she thinks it is at the moment. While you can't stop her from these wantings- you also don't have to assist by signing a lease, moving her, or funding something unreasonable.

As to the 12 step groups, which I have been in as well for family issues- they can help family members of pwBPD deal with the dysfunction but they are not a treatment for BPD itself. When alcohol and substances are a factor with BPD, they are often a form of self medication. For someone to actually "work the steps" they need to be open to a sponsor and the group turning the mirror on them, for the person to be accountable for their behavior. Your wife can certainly attend, the groups are open to anyone- and she may get something out of the group experience- so don't discourage her if she wants to go- and as you said it's an outlet,  but I would be (keep that to yourself) skeptical about chances of improvement. In actuality, a 12 step CODA group may be more helpful to you than to her.

 2 
 on: November 04, 2026, 10:07:35 AM  
Started by AlleyOop23 - Last post by Notwendy
Maybe it's grief and processing- which goes on its own timeline. Also the seeing the situation from another perspective- how disordered she is. I also think, even if one is more detached, seeing critical emails still is disturbing.

Also the relationship is different but not ended- as the two of you are still co-parents so the frustration in that context it still there.

I don't have the same experience as you but for me, the end of a relationship isn't the end of the grief and processing. Maybe that is somewhat similar to the end of a marriage. Time helps but it's a process. My parents- BPD mother- are deceased but I still have moments of emotion and re-examining it at times.

I think there's also empathy for your ex wife- not for what she has done that was hurtful but for the mental condition she deals with. It's not your responsibility and it was not ever in your power to fix this for her but you can feel empathy that she struggles with it. There is also anger- for what she put you through, regardless of why that was and sadness for what you went through.

Maybe it would help to know that you are going to feel what you feel and probably a mix of feelings. The important part is that you don't let this hinder your progress and recovery. I don't think there's a time line on this, but the times you feel this way may get further and further apart in time.

 3 
 on: November 04, 2026, 08:07:31 AM  
Started by zachira - Last post by Pook075
"No more one-way relationships and no more wasting time just to try avoiding hurting someone's feelings."

Pook075, I seem to have mastered the first part more than the second. I have been vigilant for quite awhile about one-way relationships, though I stumble when there is some reciprocity, like with this woman, even though most of the conversations were about meeting her needs. I have another thread in which I talk about wanting to be a good neighbor to my highly narcissistic neighbor, like telling her she left her garage door open. Notwendy hit the nail on the head, when she told me I could not do that (because of how it would reopen the door to again being abused by that neighbor), yet I am the kind of person who would call an ambulance if the neighbor needed one.

I would so like to be able to be nice while setting the firm boundaries with disordered people before they become so attached to me that they want my undivided attention. Healthier people than myself would have likely seen the red flags sooner and would have distanced themselves before the disordered person became attached to them.

Pook075,
Thank you for sharing about your journey.  

I don't think you're doing anything wrong by talking to tough neighbors, and the hardest part for me was learning to not walk on eggshells while also not being dismissive. 

If I let things go too far where I was becoming frustrated, then I might snap at someone who thought we were having a regular conversation.  But if I just dismissed them without saying hi or right as they started talking, then I felt like a jerk.  So I had to figure out a balance, to listen and smile for a few minutes, then tell them that I have a turkey in the oven and have to get going (or whatever excuse worked).  I'd always smile and wave though and wish them a great day.

Do I still get it wrong?  ALL THE TIME.  But that's the dance we do sometimes figuring out how to be kind without being taken advantage of.

 4 
 on: November 04, 2026, 07:41:57 AM  
Started by Prouncer - Last post by Rowdy
We all miss the good times. Let’s face it, if we didn’t have them we wouldn’t have been stuck in the relationship.
However, it is unlikely you will see any change, especially if there is no diagnosis and no therapy taking place.
While I get that you would like to remain friends, you need to weigh up whether this would actually be healthy for you.

I’ve read some of your posts and you have said many times she believes she is always right, unfortunately if she thinks it’s all your fault you will unlikely be able to change that narrative.
As an example, I messaged my sister in law over a decade ago. I said I was worried about her sister. I was worried about her erratic driving in a fast car and I was worried she would end up dead in a ditch somewhere. My ex took that and turned it into I wanted her dead. She even reiterated that two weeks ago. I told her that isn’t what I had said and it wasn’t what I meant but she told me that I was wrong. That my own thoughts in my own head were wrong.

It isn’t silly, or tragic. It shows that you are a decent, healthy human being that has empathy. In time you will care less if you are blocked or not.

 5 
 on: November 04, 2026, 06:08:29 AM  
Started by Prouncer - Last post by Prouncer
Thanks for  the responses.i guess the reason I thought of reaching out is I miss the good times, and some part of me hopes she might eventually change.  Which is silly I know. Plus I wanted to remain friends as I miss our friendship level interactions like phone chats etc. additionally I don’t like the idea that she thinks it’s all my fault and want to try to change that narrative. I guess I wanted to leave it as friends not the way it was left. I still care for her and worry for her as she doesn’t have a lot. She Had a shocking childhood and the rescuer side of me wants to see her ok too.. all a bit tragic eh%%?

 6 
 on: November 04, 2026, 12:22:28 AM  
Started by Prouncer - Last post by ForeverDad
My ex could easily catastrophize anything.  This is the opposite of normalcy bias* experts describe for normal people, and especially us.  One illustration is that if you drop a frog into near boiling water it will jump out.  But put it tepid water, you can turn up the heat and it will stay and get cooked.

*The normalcy bias describes our tendency to underestimate the possibility of disaster and believe that life will continue as normal, even in the face of significant threats or crises.

 7 
 on: November 04, 2026, 12:15:12 AM  
Started by Prouncer - Last post by ForeverDad
I often noticed that my ex would get upset or get upset worse when in the car.  I've come to compare it to home's privacy.  At home you're behind closed doors and out of the public view.  In the car you're confined with the other and out of the public view.

One difference is that at home you can leave, well, or at least try.  In vehicles you can stop but then the other can freak out even more.  One time I did pull over and stop, she then threatened to jump out and run across the interstate at night in the dark!

 8 
 on: November 03, 2026, 08:56:10 PM  
Started by maxsterling - Last post by ForeverDad
Max, I will mention here how our situations are similar in some ways but not in others, and how the legal aspects of divorce may impact how family court processes and "unwritten" policies seem to arrive at outcomes.  Even if you make no decisions now, it would be wise to seek some interviews or consultations of experienced family law attorneys.  Their legal advice will aid you in your interim decisions.  No need to go so far as to retain a lawyer until a need arises.

By the end of my contentious divorce I had been married 18 years and I paid 3 years alimony, two months for every year married.  Yours is only 12 years - sort of middling length thus far - so there also might be some alimony but not too long.  These days alimony is somewhat limited with the goal to help the disadvantaged ex to get settled in post-marriage life.

The major difference between us was that I had a very entitled spouse who at the end was extremely disparaging and possessive of "her" child.  So both BPD and NPD traits, though never diagnosed.  Apparently courts stay away from seeking diagnoses unless murder is involved, or it seems so with the high profile cases.  To summarize, they deal with (1) people as they are and (2) documentation and evidence while (3) moving the case along so slowly they're hoping the litigants will settle before they have to make decisions.

Though I separated when my child was 3yo, I will relate what happened then our child was 9yo, same as yours.

Divorce had ended 3 years before but she was still viewing me as a second-rate parent.  By then we had Shared Parenting, equal custody and equal time.  With the continuing conflict, I filed for custody and majority time.  Her alimony calc was about to end and her income was generously imputed at minimum wage.  Our GAL and the judge supported a deal where I did win custody but ex won with equal time unchanged... so she kept child support.  It was all about the art of the deal... masked as a settlement and not a court decision.

Our son was 9yo and didn't really know enough to not be influenced.  That's why minors don't attend court with the parents.  We eventually had a Guardian ad Litem (GAL - the children's lawyer).  Therapists, doctors and other professionals could share their input with the GAL without going into court and risking lawsuits or licensing complaints.

Conflict and entitled disparagement continued so I file again for the failed majority time.  This time the GAL was fed up with my ex.  ("Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.")  My ex's lawyer filed for court to have an "in camera" interview with our child, by then age 11.  Court allowed it.  (Usually kids are middle-school age or older.)  Magistrate and GAL spoke privately with him, no direct questions.  I'm told he spoke normally when discussing daddy, but lost eye contact when discussing mommy.  School also testified about problems with the mother.  The decision was majority time for me but only during the school year.  It felt to me that school got more credibility than I did, even though my experiences were throughout the year.  That finally deflated her entitlement a bit, we didn't go back to court again.

It would be wise to document the patterns you experience now since specific incidents (date, time, witnesses, details, etc) are important.  Time also is a factor, courts typically ignore most incidents older than 6 months before filing.  They call older incidents "legally stale" since if it was important enough you would have filed sooner, I guess.  Perhaps older incidents might be a basis to claim a pattern of behavior.

Beware of trying to be "too fair" or "too nice".  Court will be sure to more than protect your spouse.  Your task is to protect yourself and your parenting.  So don't Gift Away too much parenting.  My been there, done that advice is:  Get the best (least bad) court order, even the initial temporary one, because it will be an immense uphill struggle (think Sisyphus rolling that boulder up that mountain every day) to get it back.

 9 
 on: November 03, 2026, 07:08:54 PM  
Started by united for now - Last post by ForeverDad
It is wise to avoid the "YOU" word since that is so often triggering and pwBPD typically overreact.  It is better to make your boundary about yourself.  It still may not go well but at least we try our best.

One of my strategies is to say, "This topic is stressing me out; let's talk about something else, OK?"  That's pretty easy to say, because it's true!  If she says, "Yes, but . . . " and ignores my request, I'll say something stronger, like, "I'm not comfortable discussing this anymore; if we continue, I'll have to call it a day."  And if she continues, I extricate myself as politely as possible:  "See you later, bye," which is easiest on a phone call.  I call this the "three strikes rule," whereby she CHOOSES whether or not she strikes out.  If she wants to keep the conversation going, eventually she learns to change tack after the first or second warning.  I just try to make the warning about my own discomfort, rather than blaming her.

 10 
 on: November 03, 2026, 06:55:14 PM  
Started by zachira - Last post by ForeverDad
yet I am the kind of person who would call an ambulance if the neighbor needed one.

I hadn't spoken with a sibling and neighbor for the past several years yet when I noticed he could save a few hundred dollars a year I felt impelled to cautiously inform him.  As expected, it didn't go well, he was snotty and critical.  Yet it was who I am.  I can't regret that.

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