Just to update. I ended this last night - I’m gutted and feeling very very emotional. However, a line was crossed and whilst I respect and understand BPD - there are limits to what you can tolerate. That sounds vile but it’s true

I suspect that this former friend might have some aspects of NPD. While we two were not especially close ourselves, I looked at this as a friendship between families as a whole. (it didn't involve BPD mother or her family- no relation to that side)

While it hurts to lose a friend- this one affected me more than to lose a friend I was not especially close to, and possibly a disordered one. I realize now that it is similar to my BPD mother's behavior- where-she may have had an issue with one person, and rather than attempting to work things out- just promptly dumped/ghosted, and then, her family is pulled to her side.

It occured to me that one reason this situation affected me like it did is that it is similar to the situation I grew up with, where BPD mother's behavior had a level of control over the other members of the family, and where non disordered people are "discarded" based on the words of a disordered person.

Logically- this isn't a loss. I wouldn't wish to continue a friendship with someone who does this, but I think it's the dynamics that made this more upsetting to me than it probably was. It's also possible that the dynamics felt familiar enough that I didn't notice them as much, and felt a friendship where possibly there really wasn't one on her part.

The whole thing is confusing. I left my
Own yesterday. I know she doesn’t want this, but I have no choose this time I’m debated. But a line a was crossed

Notwendy,
We interact differently with people because of our experiences with our disordered families. I too take my time to get to know people before I feel I can trust them. I know people who grew up in loving families who get who is who very easily and surround themselves with healthy people while easily turning away the disordered ones early on most of the time. Yet we all get fooled sometimes by people who are charming and do not show a part of their true selves that is disturbing until much later, often many years down the road like your friend did. I recently read that disordered people often manipulate others by finding out what that person needs. Once the person is getting a need meet by this disordered person, they often make the mistake of blocking out any negative information.Taking time to get to know a person before sharing personal information is a safe boundary to have. I know I tend to overshare due to being abused and neglected by my family though I continue to improve on setting this boundary. Polarized views of any person are never healthy. We are all human beings with positive and negative traits. Sometimes a trait can be positive or negative depending on the situation  I am wary of people who have polarized views about anybody or anything. I value friendships with people I can learn from and they are willing to learn from me, as we continue to grow in positive ways.

Hi all,

I hope your well.

So last night I ended the relationship with my BPD partner. Was this coming? I don’t I can never tell. It’s hard, it’s exhausting and it’s really really difficult to navigate. Since finding out she had BDP I did my research, prepared myself and tried to educate myself. Unpredictably was how I saw it, triggers from no where and this constant feeling of been on edge. I navigate many episodes been patient but this one I just essentially couldn’t do it anymore. She crossed a line. Friday we are talking about houses and a trip o have planned with Disney making all the payments around that. Hours later - she just changes her mind. Saying I’m useless, and a barrage of verbal abuse. I think as it Involved the children it crossed a line and I probably didn’t do myself proud In my reaction, to which I’m sorry and have told her. I can’t do that anymore though. Every word, every step, every decision I make - each one I have to carefully think over and I supose did it just take it out of me?


She’s amazing and her life has been nothing but issue, and issue and issue. She doesn’t deserve it. But I’m tired. I’m angry. I’m upset. I dunno whilst I want this. I’ve lost my best friend and whilst I’m sure I never want a relationship with her I can’t help but feel sorry for her. It breaks my heart

For me, the damage to the relationships in the family and friends that were influenced by my BPD mother are already done- and so not ongoing. However- this was significant-and hurtful. Some of who were at one time her flying monkeys did reconcile with me, and while I have welcomed that, it's with some guardedness.

For me, I think the result of this is being guarded with other relationships and potential new ones. After all, if even some of my closest family members can "turn" on me, then so could friends and other people as well.

Still, I don't want to be closed off to friendships but I will take my time with becoming familiar and attached. Sometimes we just don't know. I keep in mind the Maya Angelou statement- "when someone shows you who they are, believe them".

I recently had an old friend drop and ghost me and did the same to some other people I know. I have learned she's friends with a woman that people I know suspect has BPD. We have no idea what this possible BPD woman is saying to her about her other friends but it seems this former friend is now possibly another flying monkey.

I have reached out to her, given her many opportunities to reconnect, left the door open, but she continues with her stance. I didnt know this before but now that this "former friend" has "shown me who she is", I have to accept this new reality.

Its hurtful when this happens and we grieve. It's even harder when it's a family member. For your older sister- she herself is dealing with the disordered family dynamics. While she did badmouth the younger one- its also her own fears and insecurities in the family system that led her to believe she needs to go along with the family narrative or be exiled or targeted herself. She may have a weak sense of self from the dynamics.

Zachira- often the most emotionally healthy, strongest, and truthful family member becomes the scapegoat.  Often the truthteller, the one who sees most clearly becomes the target. Your seeing through the disordered dynamics can be a threat to the others who depend on them for their own sense of self.

You have moved past the family dysfunction. They haven't. This isn't something wrong on your part, nor is it a failure on your part. You're the one changing the cycle for you. However, it's also hard to be in this solo, without your family as support, but it's because they are too disordered to be able to do that for you.

You are strong though. You've got this!

Lately I have been struggling with trying to see people for who they are beneath the image they try to sell to others, particularly people outside their close inner circles. The people I feel I can let my hair down with are open, honest, comfortable in their own skin most of the time, and don't worry too much about impressing others unnecessarily.

I am estranged from my older narcissistic sister. There are two sisters I have known for many many years. The younger sister is estranged from her older sister. I had been wondering about the anger and distress the older sister shows towards her younger sister over the estrangement. A few days ago, the older sister was with a group of close family members and the nasty comments she made about her younger sister made me see the light. I had never seen this side of the older sister whom I have always liked more than the younger sister. (Superficial charm can be so hard to see through sometimes.) As the only non family member in the group, I was witnessing the older sister's smear campaign of her younger sister. I know that this is what my older sister has done to me and partly why many members of my large extended family want nothing to do with me.

Please share similar experiences you have had, how you have become wiser and more aware of the kind of people you are dealing with. I have tried for years not to judge the situation between the sisters and wondering what the real story was. Now I feel that I cannot trust the older sister. Smear campaigns are so hurtful to so many people.

On the topic of therapy- if you and your H are not in therapy, I very much recommend it. Although it's your daughter who has BPD and you and your H do not, this kind of situation involves a whole family. For you and your H, it involves deciding on the line between support and enabling and dealing with your feelings in this this situation, especially when your D is making accusations and taking victim perspective.

I know that therapy helped me to manage the "reverse" situation with an elderly mother. There were similarities - as she was a legal adult and yet, was not completely independent either. Although I had ideas of what I wanted for her, she had her own and made her own decisions,  which your daughter will too. How to have boundaries, not enable, while still helping when appropriate, was not always clear and also having the support through the angry accusing times and how to handle them was helpful. I highly recommend this for you and your H, and if he's not keen on it for him, even for you it can help.

As difficult as this is, confidentiality laws prevent the therapist from speaking to you, without your D signing a release of information. Since it appears she has not signed, the therapist can not respond to you, even if the therapist wanted to.

While some therapists may be willing to hear/read your concerns, others may feel this is an overstep. It is also likely the therapist will tell your D you contacted them, and this may backfire with your D feeling that you have influenced the T against her.

Therapy can be effective but only as much as the person is willing to be open about their issues and to work with the T. Not all pwBPD are able to do this. In addition, they may experience shame over their issues and be invested in hiding them, and combined with a victim perspective, they may share  their feelings with the therapist from this, while presenting what they want the therapist to see. If you speak to the therapist, this may be seen as a threat to your D and she may not want to continue with the therapist.

I know you want the best for your daughter and want her to be well, and yet, none of this has any impact on the confidentiality laws. I experienced a similar situation with my BPD mother. She controlled the narrative in her world and how she wanted people to perceive her and this included therapists and what was discussed was strictly confidential. We could not and did not communicate with them.

Children don't have this kind of situation with a parent but at some point when the parent is elderly, adult children are asked or expected to begin to step in and help. My parents had the same doctor- and while my father allowed me to speak to the doctor to help him keep up with his medicines and if I had concerns. My BPD mother did not consent, so I could speak to the doctor about my father but not my mother.

At some point after my father passed away and my BPD mother was elderly, a friend advised her to make me POA. Even then, she refused to allow me to have any financial or medical information, and eventually allowed me some of it, but also had, at times, told the nurses to not speak to me.

Why? Because for her, she needed to be the one to decide what others saw and knew. She knew I knew more than that, and that I was concerned about her,  and so my speaking to them would be threatening to that. I also don't know what she told her family and friends about me, and so that was part of her narrative. They mainly knew me through whatever she told them.

This was even with her friends. I went to visit her once and her friends invited us out with them. She told me she wanted to go alone. She didn't even want her friends to get to know me. I realized that she needed her circle for her own support, and so, it was best to leave them to be her circle. Same for the therapist- she needed to have control over that entirely.

We assumed the therapy wasn't working because, it didn't change her BPD or her relationships with us. However, what we can't know is if it helped her at all from the position of being emotionally supportive to her. Maybe it did. We did know that for any chance for her to be motivated to go- we had to stay completely out of it.

There's a double edge to paying for the therapy. One is that you want her to have it and so you provide it. However, since you are paying for it, your D has no "skin in the game". She has nothing to lose by wasting the time, because, it's not her money invested. If she isn't motivated, then it's not going to make a difference.

There is a genuine fear if you and your H hold to boundaries due to how much your D can escalate. My mother could too. I didn't want any harm to her. I had to reconcile that if she escalated to the point of endangering herself, I'd have to call 911.

You are in a no win situation here in terms of your D seeing this not from victim perspective. If you want some accountability and if you pull back. Your choice now is to continue paying and keep out of what is her confidential situation- or decide this is not an expense you and your H are willing to pay. She is an adult and so if she wanted to have therapy, she'd find some way to attain it. Some places have sliding scale fees, if she's on your health insurance or is eligible for a low cost one herself, there may be some that accept it. One idea is to make this decision based only on you and your H's situation, and what the two of you perceive as progress or not.

Speaking simply to the silence from daughter's therapist after your emailed concerns... Unless your daughter signed disclosures to allow her therapist to communicate with you, likely professional and legal obligations may prevent her therapist from replying to you.  In the USA those are known as HIPAA privacy laws.

That said, I am not aware of any laws preventing you from informing her therapist about your concerns, what comments she has made about her therapy sessions, etc.  One way to look at it is that one-way communication could be better than none.

I know a lack of response is disconcerting at the least.  You're between a rock and a hard place.  For all you know she seems to be backsliding.  One lesson many have learned here is that the least honest person - about the state of their recovery - is the one with BPD traits.  You can tell your daughter that you'd like some input from her therapist as to the progress and recommendations before you will pay more.  Or you can continue paying without any outside confirmation whether the sessions are benefiting her.