CC43,
I've been reading and reflecting. It helps me to understand struggles, mindsets and actions that pwbpd have in common. My swbpd  has times of competence and has had achievements that I have had no part in. He was an electrician working for others, he got his real estate license and did well for a short time, then got his own  business license to work as an independent electrical contractor and even hired helpers. The bpd pattern I can see now as I step back and look is that disregulation under stress has caused many problems. Job changes, people issues...  Impulsive spending and Impulsive life decisions have caused more setbacks....
There's so much more as well. When bills haven't gotten paid and a utility is about to be turned off, I've jumped in. I've  made sure he's had food money for my grandson...Vehicle  breakdown I jumped in to keep him working. . The thing is none of the helps has helped him get over the Hump. I see more clearly now that the hump is bpd and all that tears down his efforts.
This disease is heartbreaking and tenacious. He feels he is fine and doesn't understand why he has so many problems and failures. Yet he is in tremendous emotional pain and pours that out to me. I have compassion for him, I've tried over and over to lighten his stress load and thereby relieving pain. I guess my goal is counterproductive to the possibility of him seeking recovery help. I feel for everyone here walking this road and appreciate you all.

Here's the thing- she's not complaining about potatoes.  She's complaining because she's mentally ill and doing everything she can to hold it together, yet she keeps seeing things that tell her you don't care.  For example, the potatoes, you know how to do what she wants you to do...at least that's the story in her mind.

So you respond to that rant with love, giving the vibe of, "It's okay, I'm here and I love you, take a breath and it's going to be okay."

That's what changes the dynamics of all this- it's not the words or the actions as much as it's the feeling of being there for them, listening when needed, and offering support.  They need to feel like, "It's me and you against the world, no matter what," type of thing...and their sick mind is fighting against that 24/7.

When I said to walk away, it HAS TO START WITH, "I love you and don't want to argue; let's take a moment and calm down."  All you're doing is cutting the tension by giving the vibes of what I said earlier (me and you against the world, I got you).  They have to hear that and feel that so often...and it makes a world of difference long-term.

Hi!

About pwbpd in conflict with others (i.e. not me) - After, in the middle, or before something is about to occur, is there a healthy way to communicate with others about the situation at hand? Avoiding to step into a rescue role on either side, but at the same help to avoid unnecessary negative impact on the rs between pwbpd and others. And avoid pressure on me as a result.

I sometimes feel that I see how easily something could be kind of resolved, but others don't realize it. But I guess I should just let things happen without getting involved?


Another question.
I've heard that BPDs are emotionally like a child, but is there any less offensive way to put this. Also, the childish part of it according to me is more that they idealize things to an extreme. Children can be great at not reacting emotionally and get over things quickly.

My BPD mother would say she was going to do things and not follow through. Many of them were unrealistic- she'd move to some tropical island, divorce my father (she never did).

I think some of these may have been "image" conversations. Some other members of her family are very accomplished and I think she wanted to appear this way too, to them or to herself. She had stopped driving for a while when my father passed away, but she kept his car. (not for sentimental reasons- she wasn't attached to his personal belongings). Me, being a practical thinker, asked why she didn't sell it. It didn't make sense to pay to keep up a car that she didn't drive. She got upset at being told this. Her response "I can drive it if I want to". She got angry when I said she didn't drive and replied- she can drive if she wants to. She didn't drive it but she still kept the car.

I think some were to gage my reaction. She'd say things and I would react, or like you ask for details. At one point her family said to me "she says things but she isn't going to actually do them" which was good advice. I think asking for details is attention- positive or negative- is the attention, or a part of the Karpman triangle. She'd threaten to do something I didn't want, then I'd react and be the persecutor. Some threats she did follow through with but either way she was going to do what she chose to do.

In some way, asking for details may feel invalidating. If someone is at a party or social event and says they are going to go volunteer, or do something impressive- IMHO, it may be to impress, to show they care, do something admirable. They'd want that response, not to be asked for details or given advice. I learned that to BPD mother- giving her advice felt invalidating to her, so I didn't- unless she specifically asked for it and event then I'd say "I think you know best how to do this". (sometimes if I gave advice she'd do something else anyway).

Or they want to know your concern. She herself probably knows that volunteering in a war zone is dangerous so perhaps she wants to hear how much you'd worry about her, or miss her so far away.

My BPD mother's family was way ahead of me in figuring this out- they just gave her the attention and affirmation she was seeking at these family events. If she was really going to pursue something she would- but I think these were saving face statements. I think the avoidance of family events involves a poor self image, feeling judged.

I posted before about a young lady I know who has BPD and we were at a party.  Suddenly she ran out of the room. I asked her mother what was going on and she said her daughter thought people were looking at a surgical scar she had. We didn't even notice it. People were looking at her because she was pretty but she was focused on the one thing she didn't think was pretty.

I wouldn't encourage or validate things my mother said that I didn't think were sound ideas or in her best interest, but I learned to not react as much to these things she said she was going to do. I also would not have assisted her to do things I didn't think were sound ideas, but if she were to take steps to do something in her best interest, we'd be all in favor of it.

If you have a normal, healthy mind you will be confused. You will be trying to work out what is going on in your ex’s head, but given a pwBPD is driven by emotions not logic, they probably don’t understand what is going on in their own head half of the time, let alone someone else, especially someone that has been romantically involved with them, can fully understand either.

I’m just over two years out, from a 27 year relationship. We have two adult children. We have three dogs that stay with me but she comes round to take them out for a walk, usually when I am at work, so we are still in contact but I keep contact to bare minimum. She jumped straight into another relationship. Now, she has tried to make comparisons with him to me. For example, I used to manage my sons soccer team. I hate the sport, but I did it for him and his friends and fellow team members because no one else would do it. She tried saying he did the same thing for his son. I know he didn’t, anyone familiar with soccer will be familiar with running the line and that is the extent of his ‘running a soccer team’ basically flagging for offside. Every parent does this at some point, and it is nothing like organising a football team, training them, marking the pitch, putting up goals and everything else that goes with it, but she tried to make out he is like me. I have berated him for going on a public Facebook page moaning about someone parking their car on the road near his house, and when people disagreed with him, he just started calling people c***s, because he has no intelligence. She said I do the same thing, because I once got in a bit of an argument with someone on a forum that had been derogatory about people with Autism. I used my intelligence to make them look stupid, without name calling, which lead to them being banned from the forum, because their level of intelligence was similar to her boyfriends. Now logic tells me she is trying to make a comparison to justify her poor life choice because those comparisons don’t stack up…. but her emotions……

For the first year, she would message me every morning, without fail. That is until she moved in with her boyfriend, but even though she would trigger me, since moving in with him, would lead to me telling her some home truths would then lead to her blocking me, she would then unblock me within days, if not within hours. Logic would tell me she’s not invested in her boyfriend if she was still messaging me first thing every morning. I was still sleeping with her for that first year behind her boyfriends back, so again logic ……….

She would tell me to move on, and hope I find the perfect woman I was looking for, and try saying I left her (because she basically made it that I had to move out) and I am now with another woman, but after a couple of arguments she has phoned our eldest son and been in tears to him about my girlfriend, and she has been rude about her in messages to me even though she has never met her, so again logic says she isn’t the one that has really moved on.

She messaged me a few weeks ago apologising for not taking the dogs out that morning, which is something she has never apologised for in the past……. Why she did that, I could come to a logical conclusion but whether it makes sense in her reality who knows!

She messaged me last week, it was the 9 year anniversary of my dads death, to say that she was thinking of me ……… bearing in mind the first year we had split up she had basically used my dads birthday to invite me over for dinner, ply me with alcohol so I couldn’t drive home and end up staying the night and sleeping with her, so again logic could tell me one thing yet her reality?

The thing is a pwBPD can not be on their own. They are not emotionally stable and grounded enough to be on their own, and any relationship they have a fear of abandonment, and personally I think they always need a backup plan. A safety net, a comfort blanket. If things go pear shaped they need to know there is someone there to catch them when they fall. They know that we have been there for them in the past, that we have been their rock, or their lighthouse leading them to safety. So while our logic tells us that their actions show that we are still living in their heads, their emotions are constantly fighting that logic.

I’ve given up trying to work out why she has done, and does the things she does. I’ve come to the conclusion that they are probably arguing with themselves just as much as they do anyone else so it’s pointless trying to figure out someone that can’t even figure themselves out.

She's definitely fishing to see if you're still out there - and by responding, you're playing her game and giving her what she wants, Once she knows you're still out there and, in her mind, 'available', she cuts off. Until the next time she wants to check on you.

She's making no direct 'can we talk?' contact and this is what you should be taking note of. She's had plenty of time to decide if she wants to get back with you but she's still playing games and posting things, knowing you're seeing them.

My ex continues to confuse me. She’s posted a fifth post with an “I miss my ex” song, this one basically saying “can I see you again?” Aside from this blip of following a couple of new “narcissism abuse” accounts, it’s been five straight months of nostalgic “I miss you” songs. Last night I started worrying that in her mind, these songs are her attempt at reconnecting and by not making a move, I am rejecting her. The last thing in the world I want is for her to feel rejected. So I sent a very light text “hi. It’s been a long time and I wanted to see how you’re doing.” And I appear to still be blocked. Why on earth would she be posting months of songs about missing me, only to still have me blocked and unable to communicate with her?

Wow, yes, you nailed it. I will be reading your reply over and  think on it. Thank you

Hi there,

What I see in your interactions with your son are some typical BPD dynamics.  On the one hand, I see your genuine concern for his welfare and his ability to earn a living while also taking care of a young child.  It's fairly typical for pwBPD to have a hard time keeping a job, because their emotional instability can get in the way of staying organized, being productive and handling work stress.  Reading between the lines, there might be some general competency issues as well.  Maybe by helping out your son so much, you have been over-functioning for him, in the name of keeping him stable and alive.  But in the process, maybe he hasn't really learned how to function effectively and maturely, independently from you.  Maybe he hasn't had to fend for himself enough, because you have always been there to do the worring, the arranging and fixing for him.  And now, he's feeling incompetent, possibly behind his peers.  Maybe he simply forgot about his son's pick-ups, assuming that you'd do everything for him, even without asking.  It's typical for pwBPD to have a strong sense of entitlement--he feels you OWE him to do what he wants you to do, when he wants it.  But the second you try to explain it's not convenient for you (How dare you?), he's extremely irritated, and he might think you're narcissistic, self-centered and trying to hurt him.  That's a typical, knee-jerk, angry reaction of a pwBPD who doesn't get his way.

Maybe I'm reading too much into your post, but I sense a couple of other things going on.  On the one hand, your son might feel ashamed that his small business didn't work out.  Shame is a huge trigger with BPD.  Even if you've told him you're proud of him, it's never enough.  PwBPD need constant reassurance, possibly because they have a weak sense of self.  They tend to take any setback as a personal failure, not a tough situation to learn from.  When reeling from a setback, any questions from you are likely to feel intrusive and judgmental, rather than mere requests for information about logistics.  He's simultaneously very sensitive and defensive.

Another possibility is that he feels intense anxiety about his new job.  If you have been over-functioning for him in life, it's possible that your son finds adult administrative matters to be confusing and overwhelming, especially when starting a new venture.  I'm saying that because I think this issue plagues my own adult stepdaughter with BPD.  For example, she's unclear about how to use public transportation, and she forgets to ask if there is free parking on the employer's premises.  She neglects to clarify her work hours, her start date, and to ask about how benefits work (healthcare? transportation subsidies? training opportunities? tuition assistance?).  Anyway, the impression I get is one of confusion, and general fear, which has the effect of paralizing pwBPD.  I think that they grapple with feeling inferior and incompetent a lot of the time, and a new job with all its uncertainties can be a huge trigger.  Instead of a positive internal dialogue (I'm competent, there's training, I'll figure it out, it's exciting to start a new job), the internal dialogue is negative (I'm anxious, what if they think I'm not good enough, nobody will like me, this is too overwhelming).  Even if your son has everything figured out, he might neglect to inform you because he's oblivious!  He doesn't realize that you have a life to organize as well; his assumption might be that you'll drop everything to do his bidding, just as you've always done, and anything less than that is "abandoning" him.  The second you mention YOUR life and YOUR needs, he feels disrespected and angry.  In typical BPD fashion, he'll overreact and cut you out (both to get away from your "neediness" and to punish you).  But as soon as he needs something--money, logistical support, administrative support--he's back in touch.  The relationship oftentimes feels transactional, all take and no give.  Does that sound about right?  If it does, it's because it's classic BPD behavior.

Let me guess, your son often blames you for all his problems.  That's also classic BPD.  I think the reason is twofold.  First, you've been over-functioning for him, and he hasn't had to face the natural consequences of his own choices and behaviors.  Second, deep down he feels intense shame, which hurts so much that he can't take it.  Rather than sit with his feelings, reflect, take responsibility for himself and find a way forward, he blames YOU for all his problems, to avoid his internal pain.

Its actually crazy how similar you sound to me. I just went through a breakup and went through a lot of emotions.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=3060772.0

Take a look at my thread. I tried to note down learnings I had too. The biggest thing was learning how to forgive truly. First forgive yourself. You're a human. You made a mistake. Don't justify your behaviour, but take accountability. What can you do differently next time? Why did you get to that point? Are you holding in feelings and letting them boil up?

To get better from this you have to internalize that they have mental health issues. Imagine it this way. You woke up today, that's good. Do you remember yesterday? The day before? How you felt? Your standing in life? I can go on. Essentially im asking you about your identity. Your ex fundementally doesn't have that identity. Think about how insane that is. They literally can change their opinion from hour to hour day to day. Feelings = reality. It's magical thinking to the max. Infact this is pretty normal in all of us because we're human. However for someone who suffers bpd, they take this to an extreme because their emotions are really extreme. They can't self soothe properly.

Remember, you didn't cause it, you cant fix it.

My heart goes out to you. For me working out intensely with blind faith that things will get better is what got me through the storm.