Hi CPH,

I think your post will resonate with many parents on this site.  First off, I do think it's best that you not share your hunch with your son about BPD, because all he will hear is that you think he's defective, and you're not supportive.  Nobody wants to hear you think they have a problem, let alone a personality disorder.  Unfortunately, there still is a lot of stigma around mental illness.  I believe everyone has their health issues--physical and/or mental--and that therapy and/or medications are proven treatments.  If getting therapy helps us learn to cope with life better, then therapy is a godsend.  But many people, I dare say men especially, think therapy is for wackos.

Based on your post, my sense is that your son isn't doing that poorly.  After all, it seems he's managing on his own for the most part, and he's able to keep a dear pet alive.  That shows he has some sort of routine and responsibility.  I guess my question for you is, how much are you supporting him?  Are you paying for everything, or maybe only supplementing his rent so he can keep a roof over his head?  Are you prepared to continue that financial support indefinitely?  The thing is, at 38, he might have come to expect lifetime financial support.  He might not even comprehend what he's really costing you, if he's not paying bills himself.  He'll rationalize whatever support you are providing, thinking you OWE him.  If that makes him feel too guilty, then he'll rationalize it another way, thinking the world is a horrible place, he's refusing to play the game.  Why would he get himself out of bed and work a job every day, if he has the option of doing whatever he wants, financed by you?  If you're not prepared to support him indefinitely, then I think you need to start asking yourself, what happens when you retire, or when you pass?

Another suspicion I have is that your son might be an alcoholic.  If he's drinking heavily enough until he passes out with you, my hunch is that he's doing that when he's alone, too.  Self-medicating with alcohol, marijuana or other substances is a common co-existing condition with BPD.  Since he's on the other side of the country, it could be easy for him to hide his addiction from you. 

The thing is, if your son has no job, no friends, no companionship other than a dog, and his support network is on the other side of the country, he probably feels useless.  He might lack an identity other than "freeloading son."  I bet he thinks you're ashamed of him.  He probably withholds details about his life from you, because he thinks you will be disappointed in him!  He's so ashamed, he stays away for the most part.  He probably needs a lot of reassurance that you love him.

I know you're really concerned for your son.  But I think, you also need to be concerned about YOU.  Please know that you didn't cause BPD, and you can't cure it.  You are not responsible for your son's emotions, he is.  You don't have to enable him indefinitely, either.  But if you do start to make some changes, such as weaning him off of financial support, my suggestion would be to try one baby step at a time.  One example might be:  Look, I'm retiring next year, and my budget is changing.  I can't afford to continue to pay most of your expenses.  Starting next month, you need to pay your phone/electric/gas bill.  Let him figure out what to do about that.  Maybe he downsizes, maybe he gets a job, maybe he spends less on booze, or maybe its a combination of all those things.  I actually think it would be a huge confidence-builder if he started to take charge of his own life.  He might surprise you.  But even if he doesn't share details, you can feel the victory, because you set him on a path towards self-sufficiency, one baby step at a time.  By enabling long-term unemployment, you're basically enabling him to feel lousy, while resenting you.

Reading through these posts sometimes this hit so close to home. I think this is where the tragedy lies. The hurt part of me wants to think there was no love. However I do feel like even with my ex there was a lot of it. That's why I got the brunt of the BPD. It's really sad. Such a counter intuitive type of disorder.

My ex also said random things looking back as "reasons". It was most likely because she wanted to just push me away in any way possible. It's really sad. Unfortunate.

Wish there was a magical cure for something like this haha.

There is only so much I can do. I can't 'force' her to do anything financially. I can't make her contribute more.

My next steps are to:

1. Have the conversation stating what I need. i.e. mutual transparency, determining a more fair and balanced approach to supporting the household, saving and paying down debt. (either contribute proportionally based on income or determine an amount for us each to keep for personal no questions asked spending and have the rest go towards bills, savings or debts). We have mutual accountability to do that, visibility and access to each others income and spending and ensuring money is going where we agree to. Part of this is for her to put 20% of her LLC income towards taxes. She hasn't saved in the past and she's paying of a $5k tax bill from last year because of it.

2. Based on her response there will be a couple of avenues. The most unlikely scenario (but most ideal for us) I think is that she goes along with what I propose.

A - Her response is exactly what it's been before. She refuses both transparency or to contributing more and will keep the status quo.

B - She might say yes to transparency and show me everything. But ultimately she is unwilling to make any changes, contribute more, etc despite what we find in the patterns of spending, her contributions.

As far as next steps and separating finances the following I do have power over and would need to take steps to

Transparency but no change:
I stop paying for any personal items for her and reduce or eliminate paying for dining out (currently spend $600-$800 a month). I no longer pay for her gas, her tolls, separate our iphone apple accounts (currently I pay for apps, subscriptions on our iphones and we share an appleid). I no longer cover optional items but the biggest thing I can do is stopping to pay for dining out. Not as a punishment but because it's one of the only areas I can realistically cut back. there are a couple smaller bills of hers I pay that I would stop if she won't take them on. I would have to decide if I would keep paying items out of a joint account or setup a new personal account for monthly bills. I would cover the shared bills I currently do (can't force her to) but she would be responsible for her own expenses. I would prioritize emergency savings and paying down debt. It would be very distressing for her as she emotionally requires me taking her out weekly. That would stop or we would have to do cheap/free things unless she wants to pay. There also wouldn't be any money I would direct to a savings for travel or goals until some financial stability is established which could be a couple of years.

If she refuses transparency and won't change contributions:
If she won't share her financial information I would need to separate our finances for tax purposes because we are both on an LLC that she receives payment for. If I can't see her accounts to ensure accurate income information to file taxes then I would have no choice but to file jointly this year but would remove myself off the LLC in 2026 and future years we would have to file individually. Unfortunately this would mean more of a tax burden overall but she has outright said she doesn't want to claim all her income so I cannot trust that she is not committing tax evasion (which essentially puts me at risk because I'm the one giving the information to our accountant and we file jointly). this would happen as well if she won't change or I can't get verification that she's actually putting 20% into an account for business so that's covered.

There is a 3rd and probably some other options I'm not thinking of but she could refuse transparency and offer some token more contribution. I would have some grey area to deal with. I feel like I'm still dealing with a situation where there's financial infidelity - hiding income and spending.  Plus regardless unless I know what she's earning and can verify 20% of consulting income is in fact getting set aside I have to separate as much as I can.

Yes, I am considering divorce as an option. For me I want to express what I need, follow through with the consequences of that and make next step decisions based on that. I still hope she might come around if I'm consistent with my boundaries. If she doesn't come around things will likely get worse. I will continue to get more resentful of her, and she will get more resentful of me because I'm not treating her like the princess she thinks she is. Things will move towards a natural conclusion and I'm realistic that may mean divorce.

Hi Cph73,

I know that it is tempting to tell your son that you suspect he has Bpd because you want him to get the mental help that he needs but It should really be left to the professionals when he himself identifies that he has re-occuring problems that effect his r/s with others.

For me my udd's secrecy was also big issue too and it has been that way since her early teens.  She is now 32yo. A lot of what I learned about the things she did in her teens was often only after the fact and some of the things she did then I would have been jailed for as an adult but luckily for her because of her age at the time they didnt press charges but it has left her with some lasting repercussions that she doesnt know that I know about.No details of her life have ever been shared. Even all her pregnancies (3) I have learned about through other people and when I have asked her she has denied.

Im sorry that you are already feeling anxious about your sons visit. What helped me when I felt that about spending time with my udd was to break the day up. Sometimes 10mins was long enough to feel the tension begin to rise so I would often take a break and go off into another room to do something else or be around others. For you this could be perhaps offering to take turns walking his dog if he brings his pet with him.

I think also having other guests there could also take the pressure off you. My udd has always been close to a particular family member and has really done well in family gatherings if this family member is there as I think she has felt more relaxed. Another time the family member was not there and she ended up starting a physical fight with another family member and attacking me when I tried to break it up.

I also think that other guests can also more effectively steer the conversation away from the topics that get your son fired up, and as your son is a heavy drinker I would make sure to only have a few alcoholic drinks in my home and the rest low alcohol or 0 %. Fingers crossed he wont even notice  it is low or 0% if he has already consumed a lot already.

Hi again Trying,

In re-reading your post, which had a lot to unpack, I see many similarities with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  I agree with Sancho, it's likely your dear daughter isn't sleeping well.  I bet she's scrolling on her phone at night (just like my stepdaughter did), simultaneously feeling left out and less than her peers.  Meanwhile, she's freaking out about her studies.  She might view screen time as a distraction, to get her mind off her troubles, but what's really happening is she's procrastinating and losing sleep too.  Even if she's in bed for twelve hours straight, that doesn't mean she's getting rest.  And then in the morning, she's freaking out, tired and cranky.  She feels crappy, and her mood reflects that.  She doens't "get" that she feels temporarily fatigued, that she'll have to power through the day, and that the best course of action is to put herself to bed at a reasonable hour the next night, to get some restorative sleep and feel better tomorrow.  Rather, she catastrophises and feels awful, concluding that her life is terrible.  At the same time, she's beating herself up over and over again, wondering why she can't seem to get her school work done, and she's afraid she's going to get bad grades, if she's not failing already.  So she lashes out at you, calling you stupid.

Look, both of my stepdaughters fell apart at the beginning of sophomore year in college.  The support offered to first-years (orientation, get-to-know-you activities, etc.) was withdrawn.  The friendship circles were already solidified.  The newness faded.  The dynamics of living on campus became challenging, especially between roommates in cramped quarters.  My stepdaughters had short tempers, and their general demeanor was petulant and demanding, which meant they lost former friends and were kicked out of rooming situations, making them feel abandoned.  In parallel, the classes weren't the easy, introductory classes anymore--coursework got harder.  Students had to pick a major.  In the case of my BPD stepdaughter, she had a childhood dream about a certain career, which had a challenging acedemic track.  When she started taking the required classes, she realized she just couldn't handle them.  Maybe she could handle them intellectually, but emotionally, she couldn't muster the sustained focus or discipline she needed to study, as she was ruminating about negative thoughts all the time.  She started skipping some classes in avoidance, and she quickly got too far behind.  Her "dream" came crashing down.  She felt lost, disappointed, incompetent.  She didn't understand that she could find a tutor, change majors, or transfer to another college that was more suited to her academic level.  You see, she catastrophized everything, and her volatile emotions hijacked her brain, which had no bandwidth left to find a more logical solution to her problems.  I'm sure she felt she was letting her parents down.  She hid her troubles until she couldn't take it anymore and attempted suicide (both stepdaughters did this, but only one was diagnosed with BPD).  But college isn't for everybody, and college isn't the only pathway to a happy adulthood.  These days, with online learning options, it's perfectly possible to delay college courses, take a lighter courseload or learn at a more maneagable pace.  It doesn't mean she's dumb.  She just needs a pace that is better suited to her current emotional level.

As for the boundaries in the home, the reality is that your daughter is an adult.  I'm sure she uses that status to her advantage.  I think that the standard, child-based punishments don't work anymore (withdrawal of dessert/car privileges/phone time, etc.).  She'll say, you can't take MY phone, I'm an adult.  And she's right.  But what you can say is, You're right.  You're an adult, and adults can choose to pay for their own phones or go without.  Adults can choose to eat with the family, but if they don't, then they are responsible to prepare or buy their own food.  They can use the kitchen as long as they clean up after themselves.  Fair enough?

I know, it's not easy, because the most likely scenario is that the status quo will reign in your household:  your daughter will continue to hide in her room, lash out and feel miserable full-time.  It may be that you have to let her live that way until she's so miserable that she hits bottom and moves out, or decides to take therapy seriously.  If she moves out, her problems will stay exactly the same, but she might have to learn that the hard way--yet she won't have you around to blame anymore.  And maybe that's when she prioritizes therapy, i.e. following her doctor's instructions and learning healthy habits.  That's what my stepdaughter did.  It's weird, because her dad and I have always emphasized healthy habits (eating right, sleeping at nighttime on a regular schedule, getting regular exercise) as the backbone of general health and well-being.  But she had to hear it from doctors to believe it.  I think that therapy emphasizes all those healthy habits, one way or another.  And once she focussed on building a healthy routine, in addition to taking medications as prescribed (and avoiding illicit substances), she turned things around pretty quickly.  You see, a healthy routine is predictable, and it also reduces stress!  An added benefit is that a healthy routine can help solidify her identity:  "I'm a pescatarian/athlete/enjoy yoga/drink ginger tea after dinner/sleep well/create art when I'm stressed." 

My BPD stepdaughter also says she was a victim of sexual assualt.  I'm truly sorry for anyone who suffers that misfortune.  But I can't help but have some doubts about her story, because (i) the fact patterns and timelines don't align and (ii) her other stories of purported "assuault" are completely twisted beyond all recognition.  Her entire vocabulary of trauma, assualt and abuse has involved a re-definition of the conventional words.  Now, I have no doubt that she has felt pain and victimization.  But I think she makes up a lot of scenarios in her head and blows a lot of things completely out of proportion.  One example is when she accused her aunt of abusing her, when what really happened is her aunt offered her some water.  Her emotional reaction was so over-the-top that she threatened her dear aunt with violence.  What a nightmare indeed.  Come to think of it, the BPD brain might resemble a nightmare sometimes--thinking disturbing, twisted, bizzare stories that at the same time feel very real.

Just my two cents.

I’m not a lawyer but I think how credit card debt is managed depends on if one is in a community property state or not. Separating finances in a marriage may be worth consulting an attorney about.

My BPD mother’s spending was an issue in her marriage and later in her elder years.  Speaking to her rationally didn’t work - other family members tried too. It was difficult to understand but I think it must have been emotionally driven. While it makes sense for you to try to speak to her first-it may be that the separate finances are the way to protect some savings but it may depend on the laws in your state.

This seems to be quite a common theme.
I too used to be accused of not wanting to do things because apparently my facial expressions told her I didn’t. She used to believe she could tell exactly what mood I was in by looking at my face. I even said to her once that I feel like I need a badge to wear each day with a happy face or a sad/pissedoff face to tell her what mood I was in.

That and if I ever breathed heavily I would be accused of huffing at her (I had a collapsed lung over a decade ago and had a section of lung removed so sometimes I exhale quite loudly) and she would then think I was pissed off with her when I wasn’t at all.

That’s not to say she was always wrong. It was a near 3 decade relationship, so at times she would do things that would make me huff, there were times I didn’t want to do something and my facial expression probably gave that away, but it gets draining when it is every bloody time they think they can read you like a physic and you have to argue with them about your own actual feelings.

Hi and welcome to the site - you're among friends who have experienced the same things you're going through. BPD always runs to the same script and we can all relate totally.

35 years is a long time but you're still together - that's commendable. How have you been coping with your wife's illness? Many people have different ways to reduce the conflict, how are you managing at the moment?

We're all still learning so feel free to tell us more or just plain rant and get things off your chest, it always helps.

Regards.

We've been together for a few years now and most of the time she makes me happier than anything else ever could. I don't really know why things got bad this time. Things were fine Wednesday morning, but since that night everything has just sucked. We were just talking about our days and now everything is wrong again. She's convinced I hate her, there's no place in my life for her, and that I want to leave her and am only staying to prove some point. I don't feel that way at all though. I really love her and I know she only gets this way when something makes her feel abandoned or rejected. I must have done something wrong, but I don't know what I could have done.

I'm trying to reassure her that I love her, but no matter what I say or do she just responds "okay." I'm trying not to get frustrated, but it's hard because I have so much else going on right now too. I have papers I need to write and exams to study for, and I have a job too. It's getting to the point where everything is just making me mad, but I don't even get the luxury of being able to be mad because if I don't pretend I'm fine then everything falls apart even faster.

I just don't understand it sometimes. When things are good you tell me you love me and don't see a future without me, then somethings happens--usually just a little misunderstanding--and then for days or weeks all you want to do is push me as far away as you can. I don't know. I understand that you can't help the way your mind works and how you perceive things, but I can only pretend that things are fine so much.

I feel terrible. I'm tired, I'm stressed, I'm pissed off. I have to pretend I'm perfectly okay though because that's the only way she'll feel better. Things will only get worse if she knows how I feel, so I'm just fine.

Hi Trying,

I know it's really tough.  I have an adult stepdaughter with BPD, and at 20, she was basically an emotional terrorist in the home.  She went "nuclear" with suicide threats.  She wouldn't eat with the family or help out one bit.  Her room and person were a mess, a reflection of her mental state.  She'd stay up all night and sleep until after noon.  She'd blame her family for all her problems.  Though she could pull herself together to do things she wanted, like go on spring break, at home she was passive-aggressive and extremely moody.  The irony was, it's wasn't spring break because she wasn't even enrolled in school.  She was NEETT--not in education, employment, training or therapy.  I think she was NEETT for far too long, to her own detriment and to that of her entire family.  If person isn't studying, working, volunteering or doing anything but watching screens all night, what are they?  They're doing nothing, which very quickly feels like becoming nothing. 

If your daughter manages to pull herself together enough to attend school and keep some friendships intact, then I'd say, that's a sign she's high functioning.  But the stress of it all is probably wearing her down, and when she's with you, she shows it.  My concern is that she's being violent.  Look, just because she has BPD doesn't give her a free pass to be violent.  That includes violence against you, your family and herself.  No violence should be a firm boundary in my opinion.  If your daughter is violent, I think you call the police, every time.  Now, pwBPD do NOT like boundaries.  It's likely that your daughter would up the ante with her behaviors, becoming meaner and more violent.  Because she has a victim attitude and uses projection, she would probably claim that YOU were violent, and that YOU started it.  (My stepdaughter did that, saying that family members "assaulted" her when she was violent.)  This is called an "extintion burst."  But if you are firm and call the cops every single time she's violent, she should learn that violence isn't tolerated in your home.

I think you are spot on in your analysis of your daughter's maturity.  It helped me to think of my adult BPD stepdaughter in terms of intellectual/chronological vs. emotional age.  At 20, she was bumping up against a complex adult's world with the emotional skills of a young teen.  She simply wasn't equipped to handle the academic pressure, social dynamics and expectations of autonomy of young adulthood.  Her emotional brain was still at the level of a young teenager, ruled by self-centeredness, impulsivity, desire for instant gratification, intolerance of discomfort, difficulties handling setbacks, a quick temper, lack of empathy.  She also lacked perspective and had a very naive, childish understanding of how the world works.  Worst of all, she didn't really know who she was or where she fit in.  I think she was terrified about the future and completely shut down in avoidance.  Yet thinking in terms of emotional immaturity gave me some hope.  My stepdaughter needed some extra time to mature, as well as therapeutic support to learn some better coping skills.  I think that's why DBT therapy can help people with BPD, provided that they commit to the process.

If your daughter is calling you useless, mean and stupid, when you are clearly not any of those things, that is code for what she thinks about herself.  She is so ashamed and preoccupied with feeling inferior that it colors everything she sees.  She interprets the world through that distorted lens.  Based on what you wrote, I'd say she's projecting her insecurities onto you, which is a common BPD behavior.  I'd say she's extremely insecure, and she needs tons of reassurances from you.  My guess is that she's finding college extremely challenging with a full course load and much less support than what she was used to as a younger school girl.  One thing she might try is a reduced course load, until she gets a better handle of it.

I'll wrap up by saying that it sounds to me like you are over-functioning for your daughter.  I know, you want to reduce the stress in her life, in the name of keeping her stable.  But if you protect her too much, she'll never feel the natural consequences of her behavior, and she won't learn.  I'd say, she's the one responsible for her mittens, and all her clothes in fact.  If she can't find her mittens, then she'll have cold hands for the day, which is the natural consequence.  If she's late to class, she bears the consequence, not you.  If she doesn't face any consequences, she'll never learn.  And if you treat her like an 8-year-old girl, she's going to act like one, and slowly she starts to feel like one, too.  If she wants food, she needs to come to the kitchen like everyone else.  It's not your job to provide her room service.  You don't have to tell her your plans, just stop acting like her personal maid/short-order cook/butler/chauffeur and start treating her like an adult.  Adults have responsibilities, too.  In my opinion, she needs to help out in the home, and when she starts helping out, she'll start to feel more competent and part of the family.  Just because she has BPD doesn't give her the right to be a demanding freeloader, correct?  But if you start to make these changes, my advice would be to proceed in baby steps, with one change at a time.