yeah, entertaining any argument over an exaggerated or misinterpreted action shows them that you are in fact guilty of that. I told mine towards the end 'I am willing to have an open and honest conversation about this if we can agree on what actually happened'. Nope. Thant meant she wasn't heard, I was denying her reality and gaslighting her. I would legit go point by point on what happened and what as said and ask her 'yes or no'...she'd agree with every point I made, and still say I did xyz. And yes, you can apologize and they will say you are never sorry or apologize and you have no accountability. Every issue is truly your fault in their minds.

Not wishing to hijack your conversation with Zachira, but we’re in the same country. Look for a trauma specialists. They will understand BPD and NPD as there’s a growing consensus these are formed from trauma. Also your struggle sounds trauma based. I found “person centred” therapy more helpful than CBT, as this take the view we can’t change the behaviour of others, only how we react.

Don’t beat yourself up about trying to help your family, if you Google “5 ways to well-being” that’s one of the 5 ways to keep mentally sound. Just help folk that are also able to help themselves i.e. they need to be self aware, capable of taking constructive criticism. Like yourself. 

I'm not on here a lot, but Zachira's advice is sound. Also Wendy's often around.

wow! 100%. Although seemed to me that it if that admitting being wrong had the word sorry attached to it, they would forget that part and tell you that you are never sorry or apologise.

I could in fact 'get by' without her income if I cut out a couple of other non essentials but I just couldn't afford her car payment or any of her expenses. I could in theory pay all the bills but would then have very very little to put away for savings or paying down additional debt. The only other option would be seriously looking at moving. But wife wouldn't agree to this and since we're both on the mortgage and note, it's probably a step I would  have to take after divorcing. I mean if it got to the point where she pulled back on even the small contributions she's making now, that's what would happen.
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I definitely want better for my daughter. I don't want her to have my traits or my wifes! We have a good open relationship and my encouragement has gotten her into therapy for the trauma she's lived through. My hope and prayer is her getting this therapy early on will help her deal in ways I never did until now in my late 40s... She's shared with me some of what she talks about with her therapist and they're talking about boundaries. My daughter also opened to me that based on what my she shared with the therapist, her therapist told her she suspects her mom may have something called borderline personality disorder. I've never shared that name/term with my daughter but makes sense that her therapist honed in on that after just a few sessions... makes me feel encouraged that they're on a good track.

Also - I am absolutely trying to be a better role model. Through discussion and modeling show her (at least moving forward) that setting healthy boundaries are necessary and okay and if mom reacts poorly then that doesn't change the need for boundaries, it's not our job to fix her or do what she wants to appease her. My daughter is one of my key motivations for doing things differently and better.



Yeah I did try that and we saw a financial counselor a few years back. But the result was the same sort of dysregulation that occurred during every couples therapist session. So I'm not inclined to go back to a financial advisor unless she gets individual therapy. At a bare minimum I wouldn't go back to a financial counselor without full transparency of her finances so we can review spending patterns and bring everything to the table. But again - her shame/abandonment/other BPD traits won't allow her to take feedback so no real point unless she gets help IMO.


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Although I'm in another country, I and many others here have had ex-spouses claim DV or child abuse and have for a short time been limited to supervised visits until the professionals could determine what was real and what was not.

A risk I see here is that the professionals could assume that the present limited parenting is "working" simply because the status quo of supervision has gone on so long.  We have a saying here, "Get the best temp order you can from the very start because temporary orders tend to morph by default into orders."

In my case, I filed for protection based on recorded Threat of DV.  In response, my newly separated then-spouse rushed to family court to file for her own protection... and included our preschooler.  Fortunately, the Children's Protective Services (CPS) investigator stood up in court and stated they had "no concerns" about me and son was removed from her protection allegations.

What was weird was that though my stbEx was charged with Threat of DV, when in family court she was granted temp custody and I was left with alternate weekends.

I think it is important to accept that the court typically sees the adult relationship as separate from the parenting relationship.  The point I'm trying to make is that whatever claims she makes about herself needing protection - which not are being negotiated away? - doesn't necessarily apply to his parenting.

It seems a deal is being worked out where she's stepping back a bit?  If so, then the lengthy supervised status needs to be undone.*  As I wrote above, the longer it continues, the harder it will be for officialdom to acknowledge it is no longer appropriate.

* This is similar to the advice that we should never admit guilt (such as in a plea deal).  Even if we are found guilty, at least we can still claim innocence.

What is being lost in this mess is the best interests of the child.  The core question: Is the child endangered or at risk of abuse or neglect by his father?  If not, then his supervision is inappropriate.

In the future, your husband should make every attempt to equalize the court's scrutiny.  What has happened thus far it is only one parent being accused as the "perp" while the other is considered the "victim".  Try to challenge the perp/victim scenario and - for the child's bests interests - scrutinize both parents equally.  In the USA we call such investigations Custody Evaluations which include (1) both parents taking tests and interviews and (2) seeing each parent separately with the child.

From your daughter's perspective, she needs to see your example as one to follow in future years as she develops her own family relationships.  Will it be a "stuck" or appeasing example or one that was properly "in charge" in a reasonable but firm way?


As my mother enlightened me when I was in my single years and my grandfather had given me $5, just the once, and asked me not to tell his wife, my step-grandmother... "Her money is her money, his money is their money."  He was retired but mom said she had so much money that she had to pay taxes on her savings interest.


The unspoken reality, of course is that what you say has meant little if anything to her for years due to the mental dysfunction.  Sort of as Rodney Dangerfield would say, I get no respect.  This removes it from "I say..." to "The tough reality is..."

From my own family dynamics, and from reading posts about similar dynamics,  it makes sense that her issue is with your sister. You already know that your wife has issues with any females she perceives as a threat and while it doesn't make rational sense to feel this way about mothers and sisters, - feelings are not rational.

This is classic Karmpman triangle dynamics. My BPD mother perceived people as "being on her side or not her side". If she decided that someone was not on her side, the expectation was that my father would align with her against that other person.

While another concern was to preserve my mother's self image and not reveal her issues to other people, as far as my father's family was concerned- that horse was already out of the barn. Whether or not my father said anything to them, they already caught on to issues. They didn't enable her, but they did keep quiet about her around us and were cordial to her for my father's sake and for us kids too.

Your wife took offense at the post your sister made. She's in victim mode. You are expected to align with her and defend her as rescuer. If you don't do that, the issue might escalate. I think in this case, saying to your sister that your wife is sensitive about this is OK and your sister can be aware of this in the future. This doesn't mean your wife won't feel offended at something else your sister does as well.

I think if you communicate with your sister that you care about her and that this is a difficult situation for you  she might be willing to go along with this.  She will have her own limits with your wife but hopefully an Instagram post is probably not one of them.

Hi Scott, I know exactly what you mean - balancing compassion and boundaries has always been something I’ve struggled with too.

To give you an example: when my mum felt threatened by my new husband, or when my kids were little (she’d had me mostly to herself for a long time), she would often act appallingly when we visited. There would be huge scenes where she’d threaten suicide and completely lose her temper, and everything would descend into chaos. For years I would stay and try to calm her down or make peace, but it never worked and almost always made things worse. Many times, I lost my temper too and say terrible things. Eventually, because I couldn’t have my kids witness that level of instability, I would leave because it felt too dangerous. But the moment I removed myself, the guilt was overwhelming- I felt like a traitor, like I hadn’t tried hard enough, and I’d question whether her meltdown was actually my fault. The urge to go back or ring her was so strong I felt physically sick.

What I’ve learned to cope is this: I focus on my breath and practice loving-kindness meditation. These practices help me be less reactive, create space, and help me be less angry with myself, the BPD situation, and my mum. I’ve learned that you can have compassion and love for your parent without reacting to their behaviour. You can have boundaries without being cruel. I try to remind myself that no matter how bad the situation feels, and there have been terrible times, it will pass. And it always does.

For a long time, I dismissed meditation as “not for me,” but honestly, it helps on every level. We have to accept that we cannot change, save, or fix our parents -  we can only change our reactions.

I also write down what’s going on when my mum is having a bad episode: basic pros and cons of how I could react. This really works for me because I need constant reminders that my old ways of reacting and peace-keeping always made things worse. And 100% of the time, my mum eventually contacts me when she’s calmed down. If she contacts me when she’s still not calm or reasonable, I try to gently say I’ll ring her back when she’s in better form.

There are also some really good books out there with practical strategies – especially Stop Caretaking the Borderline: How to End the Drama and Get On With Your Life.

My relationship with my mum hasn’t been easy, but I do love her. For me, self-compassion and compassion for her and for others really is the only way through this. If you would like me to recommend some guided meditations, I can send them to you.
I hope some of the above helps - it sound easy when I write it down but there is no doubt it is hard. This message board is good to stay connected with , especially during crisis times.

Best of luck Scott

I want to address these aspects of your post- in the hope that it will give you some ideas of how to best prepare for your son one day but also not just your son, but for you, your wife, and, the impact of the preparation- or lack of- or the potential financial and emotional effect of these dynamics on your daughter.

That your living expenses are in a situation where you need a contribution from your wife is concerning, because it relies on an unreliable person. I learned even by my teens to not rely on my BPD mother for anything. There are emotional aspects to money. One is power and control.

That you need her money for your combined life style puts you in a precarious situation. It may seem ludicrous to suggest that you make changes to live on your income alone-but it's a way of maintaining control of your own money and future and this makes a difference. Changes like this can not be done quickly. Start with what you can do. The obvious one is the fancy dinners out. It's not sensible to do that when in debt.

With a person who has NPD, controlling you with money puts them above you. Asking BPD mother for money (Dad earned it, but she controlled it) would give her license for humiliation and control. You would be "less" in her eyes. In your situation, you are a main contributor but the emotions, power, dynamics- with a BPD/NPD person aren't logical.

You can not control if your wife contributes or not. The natural consequence of her not doing this is that the family lives on your salary alone. It may not be fair (but fair isn't a consideration here) and your wife won't like it but this is  what happens with money:  if one's expenses exceed income- the money will be gone.  It's better that your wife learns this now, because if this were to continue- the possible circumstances of two elderly parents in need, and a brother with special needs could fall on the shoulders of your daughter, who also may have her own family needs to consider at the same time.

What do you want for your daughter? Out of all of you, she is your least concern and that's good for her, but emotionally she still needs to know you care about her, even if she doesn't need your money. It also appears she has a moral core and won't let her elderly parents or brother lack basic needs but she also may have her own family to care for too. You've mentioned your concern for your son, but what about your daughter? While it's important to plan for your son's needs - it's also important to plan for yours (and your wife's should you stay together).

I was concerned that BPD mother would go through her money too quickly and then not have the savings in her own time of need. We would be willing to help an elderly parent who, through circumstances they could not control, was in need. This was different though. She did not have need. Her spending was the issue and she was keeping her own finances secret. While she didn't ask us for money as long as she had hers to spend- we were concerned about her running out. We didn't know how serious her circumstances were until we found out by accident that she had leveraged the equity in her home, and had few savings left.

She would not cooperate with any plan to be transparent, to budget. Asking her about money led to her accusing us of wanting it. I could not be involved with her finances if being accused of this. So when another reliable relative offered to help her with a budget- I was relieved. She agreed at first but then changed her mind.

The best gift my father left his children was not for us but for her, and it was one I was thankful for every day. He had put some of the money into a fund that paid a monthly sum which was sufficient to meet her needs. Eventually BPD mother allowed me to access this to cover her bills. However there was stress and drama and power struggle over what was "her money". While I had wished my parents had allowed me to help manage it earlier to avoid a financial crisis, I realized there'd be more of this, and it would not have been effective. I had no legal power over what she did with it. There was no way to control her, she was going to do what she was going to do.

Consider this idea when you plan for your savings. Such funds may come with different risks/benefits, so they probably should not be the entire of the savings but one also has to consider the circumstances and behavior of the person who has access to the funds. I am not a financial advisor but I think it's wise to work with one for planning for your circumstances.

I think it also helps to have a third person to point to as the decision maker with your finances. Rather than say "no more fancy dinners" it's "financial advise is to stop the dinners". It takes down the emotional aspect of the money decisions.

In this particular case, the person who she has a problem with is my sister. There was a birthday-party at my sister house and my wife wasn't mentioned or seen in a instagram story my sister shared afterwards. W says it's deliberate.
- W dm:d my sister and asked what's up with that.
- Sis said she hadn't noticed that she wasn't on the pictures, but thanked my wife for the party - "it was fun tonight" or something like that.
- W replied that she wasn't tagged on the picture either.
No response after that but I guess my sister thinks everything's fine. W however told me she wants me to stand up for her before I speak to my sister again. And I'm kind of stalling at this point because it's not like I am in direct contact with my sister every week anyway.
Later I think my W said something about the whole thing maybe being a bit unnecessary of her... But I don't trust that either.

The solution could be that I speak to my sister and say that my wife is sensitive to being left out and that if possible, try not to do that again, even though I believer her when she says it wasn't her intention... Is that too much? I could also add that I think W has some odd ideas sometimes but that it's better to just leave it be, deep down W wants loving relationships with everyone.

To my W I would say that I told my sister that excluding W makes her upset and that I asked Sis to be careful not to do that again.

The thing is if I do nothing, W will pull the "you are a coward"-card. And that is always a road to chaos. Doing a small gesture taking her side is almost always better than doing nothing. And if I do it thoughtfully it might not even upset anyone. I don't think I need to make it a big deal. But if I do nothing it could become a big deal.

My sister isn't a complicated individual anyway and we trust each other. I have talked to her about my wife a few times and it never seems to affect their relationship.