Hi everyone,

my husband and I are looking for some thoughts and advice on our current situation with our 20 year old daughter with diagnosed BPD.
4 weeks ago she left our home from one night to another to live with her 30 year old boyfriend whom we don't know. She has had a very rough year with her mental health (eating disorder, cutting and suicidal ideations amongst other things) and we don't agree with her dating when she is in this state. Having said that she has made her choice and we agreed with her that she should properly move out. We packed her belongings, she picked them up. We have since kept contact to a minimum as we understand that she wants both our attention, approval and do what she wants. We tried very hard all year (and over the past 7 years) to help her as much as possible, but mostly to no avail. We would have liked for her to focus on her mental and physical health first before entering a relationship (the first for her). We are concerned that he is controlling her (we had one encounter with him the night she decided to leave as we were making her life hell at home, which didn't go down well at all).
My questions:
Are we doing the "right" thing by keeping the contact to a minimum (text only)?
We also have a 19 year old son and a 10 year old daughter who both have been on the receiving end of our BPD daughter's behaviors for years and feel the need to protect them from her dysregulated behavior. Both do not want to have any contact with their sister at this stage.
We are considering to move away from the area as our daughter with BPD has made several attempts to connect with her brother in ways he felt very uncomfortable about. Are we doing the right thing by removing ourselves from the area?
My husband and I feel like we desperately need a break from all of the drama and toxicity.
She is currently living with him and his parents on the other side of town and we frequently see them together which we would like to avoid as we don't want anything to do with him.
We are worried that things will escalate over the coming weeks and months as she is not getting from us what she wants. (our acceptance of their relationship amongst other things)
Our Psychologists have both said that the only way she will possibly learn anything is by making her own mistakes now and having to live with the consequences of them. Big girl decisions come with big girl consequences.
How have others dealt with these situations?
On a site note, I have BPD as well and my husband suffers from depression. Our family is full of ADHD, autism and mental health issues, but we have tried very hard to help our daughter to no avail.
We don't want to condone her behavior which was disgraceful the night she decided to leave with just the clothes on her back, because "she didn't feel safe coming home". (we have never hit our children or been physically abusive in any way with any of them.) Have we made mistakes? Yes heaps of them. We don't want her to suffer or be unhappy, but we also don't want to condone her behavior or support it.
We feel the need to protect the rest of us now and create some physical space between us and them.
What are your thoughts on that?

Apologies for the long post. There is so much more to this, so please feel free to ask me any questions and I'll do my best to answer them for a clearer picture.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
We feel very alone and overwhelmed.

Sandra

Yeah, it’s it’s going pretty rough right now, but maybe it can be. Maybe it’s the only way that she’s gonna  get sober and come to the realization of what’s really going on and what she’s really losing and what she’s really going gonna lose, but all I know is that I am where I am and I’m staying where I am and I am going to be one of those good statistics with her without her right now. I’m just doing the whole no contact thing and letting her fend for herself and see where that gets her so I’m in the process of kinda letting go at least for now if it’s meant to be, it’ll be

Hello fellow BPD Stepmom,

I'm a stepmom of an adult BPD stepdaughter, and I know how disspiriting that can be sometimes.  To answer your question, no, I haven't been truly afraid of my pwBPD, but I've been afraid FOR her.  Her tendencies have been more self-destructive than violent towards others.  Having said that, when under extreme stress, she has experienced a few episodes of disassociation, which were scary.   I've also been afraid of leaving her unsupervised in my home, mainly because I was on suicide watch, but also because I thought she might start a fire or do some other damage to the household out of carelessness or cluelessness.  She didn't care one bit about her environment and neglected to take care of things when she was untreated.

I happen to agree with Pook on his points, especially about not taking anything your daughter says personally, and having to take a "tough love" stance if she's being abusive in your home.  While I think it's important to be compassionate, BPD comes with some pernicious and destructive behaviors.  As a parent, if you tolerate abuse, the pwBPD will think it's OK to be abusive.  The long-term consequence is that she makes your life miserable--perhaps leading you to be afraid of your own kid in your own home, which is supposed to be a sanctuary.  Perhaps worse, your stepdaughter will think it's OK to treat everyone around her badly.  Before long, she'll destroy all the relationships she has with family and friends, and she'll become even more miserable, alienated from everyone, when what she craves is love, companionship and understanding.

Sadly, for as long as your stepdaughter lives with you, isn't getting therapy and has her meltdowns, she's going to blame her family for all her problems.  I bet she's saying that you're horrible and ruined her life, correct?  She blames you for all her bad choices, right?  She's all take and no give, right?  She's miserable, and yet the status quo is working for her.  As Pook wrote, she probably feels more and more entitled to demand free housing, money and and retribution for all the horrible things you've supposedly done to her.  Does that sound about right?

Look, my BPD stepdaughter was allowed to be NEETT--not in eduation, employment, training or therapy--for an extended time by her dad.  My stepdaughter thought she liked this, because she was basically on vacation and had no responsibilities.  She thought this was "working" for her, and in a perverse way, it was.  But the reality is, that if an adult is NEETT, she's doing nothing, contributing nothing.  And doing nothing eventually feels like BEING nothing.  Life seems sad and pointless.  She doesn't know who she is, let alone how to move forward.  As a result, she's always looking backwards, ruminating endlessly on negative childhood experiences, and spewing hatred towards her family for causing all her distress and ruining her life.  Does that sound about right?

My stepdaughter has lived with her dad and me, on and off, for most of her adult life.  In recent months, the deal with her was that to stay with us (for free), she had to be nice, clean up after herself and work full-time (or work full-time on finding full-time work).  Well, she did that for a few weeks, but then she got frustrated and started with her old habits of sleeping most of the day, acting passive-aggressive and avoiding us, especially at mealtimes.  She and her dad fought a few times because she wasn't holding up her side of the bargain, and her dad said, he thought it was time she should leave.  He didn't say that very nicely--they were arguing after all--but I think she wanted to leave because she couldn't stand feeling judged when she wasn't holding up her side of the bargain!  She found other living situations and has been doing her own thing for a while.  She blocked her dad, which is sad, but I think it's temporary and not a bad thing that she left.  Our home is peaceful now, and she's doing her own thing.  Baby steps.  Anyway, I think that "real life" is often a better teacher than parents when it comes to BPD, because parents come with so much negative emotional baggage.  In the "real world," she gets to experience the natural consequences of her decisions.

I'm certain H's meeting with his son was awkward and I'm glad it was successful, even if only baby steps thus far.

I agree that stepson may not even have told his wife about the meet up.  I suspect he didn't even want to make promises for a next visit since he feared confessing it to his wife.  Believe us, many here have "been there, suffered that" in those late night rants and raging, being interrogated mercilessly.

Perhaps father and son can share some non-verbal expressions next time - thinking positive - maybe some firm handshakes or, better yet, heartfelt hugs?

That Karpman Drama Triangle (Prosecutor, Victim, Rescuer) is an important concept for many of us to keep in mind and even to remind ourselves periodically.  See that word "Drama".  People with Borderline and other acting-out PD traits are especially proficient in Drama.  Practiced.  Persistent.  Experts.

After a while you can see it almost everywhere in daily life.  But what is so impacting and distressing is when it occurs repeatedly with those closest to us.

Caution- triangles ahead

This made me think of another angle to this. BPD mother may not want to take classes. She may have put this out as an excuse during some argument with your father over his being able to drive again. While she may have complained about having to drive him- this gave her some element of control- kept him close to her, she knew where he was. Once he's driving- he can go by himself. He can "leave" her in a sense (he's not leaving the marriage but he can do things on his own). This gives her less control and more anxiety.

Often the "reasons" stated for their emotional distress aren't actual reasons and may be in the moment statements.

Now, Dad's in Rescuer mode with her in Victim mode. His first thought is to "fix her distress", distress he thinks is over her education. So- more triangles. He doesn't do this directly- he gets your sister to do enlist you all to "find classes for Mother". Why doesn't he do this himself? He can research class options for her if he wants to. He's passed the "fixer" rescuer role to the kids. "Help Mother".

Dad isn't doing this consciously or with any bad intentions. He is truly trying to help here. This triangle pattern is not conscious (until one becomes aware of it). It's a dynamic common to families with a disordered person- of many kinds- not only BPD. These patterns are sometimes repeated for generations- it's the "normal" in some families. It's possible this pattern was in his family growing up or an adaptation to being with your mother for decades. Dad isn't being "wrong" here- he's doing what he knows to do.

One aspect of co-dependent behavior that I learned in counseling and 12 step groups (it was the "normal" in my family growing up so I had to work on these behaviors myself) is that while this behavior appears to be helping behavior, it is also self serving. Once I could see that part of it- it didn't feel so helpful.

What is confusing is that helpful behavior and co-dependent behavior can look exactly the same. The key to telling the difference is our own feelings. If I am genuinely helping- I don't feel that "ick" feeling, or the resentment. Co-dependent behaviors focus on the other person's feelings and so we may not be aware of our own. Your father is focused on your mother's feelings.

This is why, if you were helping a potential college student who needed this assistance navigate a class schedule, you'd not feel icky or resentful. You would be genuinely helping, but you'd feel icky and resentful doing that in this situation because, you sense the disfunction in it. Same task, different circumstances.

What is in it for Dad if mother takes classes? She has something to occupy herself and an interest. Dad then, can drive by himself and not be worried she's upset and home alone. But if Dad directly proposes classes to her, she may then feel he's judging her- he's passed that one on to you kids.

Now, here's where potential drama comes in. Your mother may have said this in the moment and forgotten about it. It wasn't the reason anyway. But she still has insecurities about her education. You kids come in with this idea- "hey Mom, we found some classes for you" and this triggers her insecurity. Instead of being happy- she gets mad and upset- at you kids (Perscutor). She's in Victim perspective. Dad - consoles her as Rescuer.

Boundaries are not something we impose on someone else because we can't control another person. They can be spoken or not. We can talk about it but the other person may or may not comply. When these behaviors are so fixed in a family- they aren't likely to change. This dynamic has been working for your parents for decades.

Boundaries determine our actions, how we respond to these requests. You can talk to your father if you choose but a boundary can also be an action. One is to not respond to these requests unless it's brought up. It may be long forgotten by your mother by now. Another is to deflect- if it's brought up say "College is different now but there are admissions personel at the community college who know all about the different classes and can help you better than I can". The better than I can phrase is one I have used.

One example is that BPD mother would ask us to make a phone call for her while she's sitting right there. She can pick up the phone herself. My response- "they need to talk to you Mom, you can do this better than I can" possibly followed by "I want you to do it" then repeat the statement. If she had asked me to carry something too heavy for her- I'd agree to do that because it wasn't caretaking- it's helping with something. Use your feelings to guide you on this- the "ick" will tell you what's what.

As to talking to Dad-.  He's the one who is with your mother 24/7. Your being at a distance is a boundary on your part- and I didn't live close to my parents either, and also had this boundary. His circumstances are different than yours. So how he responds, it's hard to know. I did discover that- whatever I said to my father was potentially shared with BPD mother. If I called, she'd be listening. She read his emails. So keep this in mind if you talk to your Dad. It's also possible the issue of classes may not come up at all. It may be that BPD mother didn't mean it and her focus now is on something else.

Wishing you good luck this visit with all this. Hopefully there's going to be some fun time with the family. Merry Christmas!

34 years after breaking up with my exBPD I suddenly started thinking of her and it was so intense I actually wrote to her, as I'd always known she lived not too far from me.

It actually felt like we'd only broken up fairly recently and I felt the same way as I did back in the day, when I always chased her. Very strange how this urge to reconnect just happened, it was like a timewarp .

Maybe an age thing? I'm 68 and maybe it's mind looking back on old times and wondering what would have happened if things had worked out. Who knows.

She never responded though, which is probably the best thing as I spoke to her sister in law ages ago and she said she hadn't changed  one bit.  Still can't explain why I suddenly started to think so strongly of her though after so long.

They probably never leave our minds totally, the best we can hope for is that they stay buried away.

I think you have kind of answered your own question. In the moment we block it out to prevent us from harm, yet decades later we can recollect those memories when they aren’t as harmful to us. Yes I’m some cases it might still hurt, but it can be useful to look back on those memories so they can show us the situation we were in from a different perspective and help us realise we are safer and better off out of it.

Merry Christmas all.

Take a look at a post I made earlier this week.  The gist of my perspective is there are times we can't let other people make their problems (or demands, persistent requests, etc) our problems.  Perhaps other times we can.  It depends on many factors impacting each situation.  Weigh the various factors and decide accordingly.  As already mentioned, everyone involved are age-wise adults after all.

Well, that's a great start anyway and if she understands your situation, it could be a good building block for the future.  Maybe she can see a relationship without drugs, but you know the statistics better than I do probably.  For one person to get sober, it's rare.  For both, it's super rare.  It can certainly happen though and I'm rooting for both of you.

In a way, this is easier for you because you can tell her that if you don't do x, y, and z, you're going to jail.  So you have no choice right now and hopefully she can see that.  This can all turn out to be a blessing in disguise for you!