Ok, I tried to avoid it, but you still figured out that I'm the aforementioned unfortunate husband. 

@Notwendy,


She always gives me this consent, but I have learned that it's a bad idea. Because then she begins to think that the therapist is on my side and sees this as a dispute. And then she keeps bringing up the therapist's name and lots of fake hypothetical opinions against me to the drama, just like she does regarding her parents. The strategy that works is that I send the message to her, and she forwards the message to the therapist if she feels comfortable. So I can communicate that she is having a hard time after therapy and may need more skills. That's a one-way communication that does not include questions, but it should be enough.


I disagree with this simplistic view. Because that would make the intimate partner useless and inert. I know the partner can't assume the responsibility of solving her problems, but without any sort of support/guidance, the BPD partner can't progress either.

For instance, I have to give her the vitamins on hand and on time, just after dinner/lunch; otherwise, she just forgets. And I have to wait until she takes all of them; otherwise, again, she forgets. She is not taking them because she wants to improve but because she likes to be taken care of and doesn't want to disappoint me (if she is in a good mood). And now I'm searching for a good DBT therapist, because she is not very good with that.


I'm not an enabler because I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm too rigid. However, at times she can confuse my protectiveness with neediness. However, there is one thing I do that works as a kind of enablement: the simple fact of still living together and allowing the relationship to return to its baseline of closeness. This is what I got from AI's opinion:

> Staying because of finances and child safety is not enabling in itself, but the repeated cycle where she lashes out and later “gets you back” without lasting consequences likely blunts the impact of loss and therefore reduces learning from consequences.

> The repeated pattern where severe dysregulation is followed by your continued physical presence and eventual near-baseline restoration appears to have extinguished the fear of permanent loss.

> The enabling element is not affection, reassurance, or bending, but the absence of an irreversible consequence.

> The learning signal that is missing is not emotional but existential: she has learned that dysregulation does not change your long-term decisions, but also that it does not terminate the bond.

From our collective experience here, it can be concluded that no matter who your spouse was married to, you or someone else, she would still have focused her dysfunctional outbursts on her partner.  It's not you.  Just about any partner would trigger her.  It's part of the disorder.

Is she aware of DBT or CBT therapies?  If not, then don't tell her since a typical reaction is to reject "labels".  Some therapist don't even mention a name for their sessions so they can proceed without too much drama.  But as already remarked, this would be an uphill (mythical Sisyphus) struggle for years with no guarantee of eventual success.

My ex and I had been married for over a decade and though it was slowly becoming problematic, our marriage was manageable... until we had a child.  (She had an abusive stepfather and was greatly triggered when she saw I had become a father...)  Once I contacted the legal systems - police for a "family dispute" - my marriage had crossed a line from which it didn't survive.  We separated and soon were divorcing.   She filed numerous allegations against me during the separation, the two year divorce and even for another year or so after the final decree.  Even after they stopped she was still playing games with exchanges and disparaging me.  Now that our son is an adult, things are less conflictual... as long as I don't trigger her.

I realized our marriage was irreparable when, in addition to the ranting, raging and disparaging, she was threatening to disappear with our child.

My family court's perspective was to ignore mental health issues.  It treated us as we were and didn't try to fix us.  It set basic boundaries for behavior, court orders.  It was perfect but to some extent it limited the poor behaviors.

A troubling aspect of the abusive behavior is that the children are exposed to it, not just once or twice, but regularly.  They're not living in a reasonably normal home environment.  They won''t know what is real normalcy.  The example they're seeing in their parents' relationship can sabotage them almost unwittingly when they grow up and seek their own adult relationships.  They might choose someone like dad (forever struggling) or someone like mom (regularly causing stress and discord).

There's no simple solution here but it would be a great idea for you and the children to seek counseling in future years to deal with predictable issues that will arise.  And even young children can benefit from "play" therapy.

Hi,

maybe I was not clear enough, with “it is the way he talks to some extent (not only to me)”, I did not mean that that is all that happens/happened. The real rage and accusations are also surgically just pointed to me. Which gives him thoughts that I am the problem, since he has no problems with other people in his life. But that is how bpd works, it is the most intensively targetes at the closest person. I too live with my partner for 5 years, since we moved in together boundaries became even more important and ofcorse harder to keep in place. I agree with you that your situation is harder than mine, my bf luckily has less bpd traits, he also have never thretened me to kill me. IMHO that is a real life threat and police should deal with it - that would also put a boundary strongly in place and also show the children such behaviour is not tolerated.
I understand your question and the need to get your wife in appropriate treatment. I had the most succes when my bf was really threatened and scared I would leave for real, at that time he was ready to commit to treatment. Maybe this was also some kind of boundary - I was letting him know, I was not going to stay with him, if he is not getting into treatment and I really ment it.

Hi Bpdstinks,


I can see that you are struggling. 

Maybe it is the not knowing why your udd has requested limited contact with you and your family but as hard as this is those are her wishes. For years I wanted to know why my udd despised me so much. I asked relatives she was close to, close friends but no-one had answer. Even udd herself didnt have answer. So I blamed myself that I must have done something wrong.

Then I came across bpd and the more I read about bpd I came to realise that my udd has an 8 out of 9 of the traits for bpd and that she has a serious undiagnosed mental illness which often involves difficulties with personal relationships. That explained a lot. There were signs long before I knew anything about bpd and there is a definitely a genetic link in my family. I had to accept it and come to terms with it and let it go to improve my own mental health.

Acceptance has lead me to understand that I did the best I could at the time with the knowledge I had then. Its hard to accept that  my  udd may have just been unlucky and inherited her mental illness. I still feel sad for her that she doesnt experience the everyday joys in life that others do and would change it if I could but as far as I know she sees nothing wrong her life and is happily living her life. She isnt sad. She out there living her best life and she is happy that Iam excluded from it. It is what she wants and wanted for many years and if that makes her happy then Iam happy for her. Try not to take it personally. Hopefully in time your dd may reconnect when she gets the mental help she needs but I wouldnt hold your breath for it. That will just keep you stuck and you still have a life to live!

For now Its possible that your udd may be trying to protect her own mental health by distancing herself from you and her extended family and her wishes must be respected however difficult it is for us to accept.

I think  it is time to focus on this new life and live in the moment. A new grandbaby is  truly a blessing and will bring you so much joy

I think these are questions best answered by a therapist who has experience using EMDR and DBT.

Even with experience- how a person responds to therapy is individual. They can't predict a certain result for an individual.

From what you have posted - it looks like your wife has tried EMDR, and is still willing to try it, but it would be her therapist who could answer your questions about her response to it, if your wife has given consent to the therapist to speak to you.

Understandable that this is difficult as you want to help her but she's autonomous in therapy and is going to respond, or not respond, in her own way.

I agree with mitochondrium in that- the aspect of this that we can control is our own boundaries to being bullied when the pwBPD is dissociating- understandbly difficult in your situation- with small children, finances to consider and living in the same house.

As to motivating your wife- I don't think we can control someone else's feelings or motivation. but what you can do on your part is to consider if any of your behaviors are enabling ones. Hopefully posters will share their experiences on this topic too.

Hi Boodledog26,

My udd left home when she was 17yo.

She packed up her bedroom and her b/f at the time helped her move out while I was home with no discussion beforehand or word of a forwarding address(got that later from b/f)

Ultimately she made her return when things didnt work out, but in between time I had very limited contact with her which suited me just fine as I had already reached the stage of letting go after years of dealing with so much turmoil it was honestly a relief to have udd out of my home. As you said there has to be consequences to big girl decisions.

I think moving is a very drastic move especially if you have a good community around you and your children are happy where they are. There must be other ways out there of protecting your son without uprooting you all. Why cause so much distress to you all just to avoid one person?

Please excuse my previous grammar errors.

One more info...

She does recognize that she has serious issues and even makes jokes about being too crazy (too many disorders). However, the perception of being a victim is much stronger and overrules the self-perception, which is not taken seriously (therefore the jokes).

At times, when she wants to reconnect, she suddenly understands that the things she says and does are inadequate, and she actually feels guilty. But the guilt is short-lived. Most of the times, though, she claims that this type of situation occurs with every couple. I thought it could be a reference she got from her parents, but she does have a better reference from her grandparents. So it's more about an attempt to rationalize/normalize her own abusive behavior.

Thanks CC43 -  I think this is exactly the approach that would be best received

@Notwendy, yes EMDR certainly requires the patient to recognize the trauma and have the intent of healing from it. That's not a problem. Currently, she is treating an adult trauma that involves sexual assault, after which she developed a specific phobia that is very debilitating.

Once she overcomes that adult trauma, she would then try to touch her deeper childhood traumas. She had tried hypnotherapy as well. The problem is that she tends to stray away from therapy because of the side effects are too strong. Her EMDR therapist instructed her to use music and meditation. Yet, when the therapist when full force, using an apparatus, she said the after-hours were too painful, so she abandoned the therapy for a few months, but is now returning.

Do you think she would need to learn skills from DBT first, to then use in post-EMDR sessions? Or would she just need a stronger motivator force?

Thanks for the answers.

@mitochondrium, the situation I describe is a bit different (in a bad sense).

1) The first difference is that this is not a being-harsh-with-everyone kind of attitude. It is surgically directed to the one that replaces her father (the husband). For no one else she displays such kind of hatred. This was demonstrated a few years by Ayahuasca. This experience exposes what's beneath the ego and reveals the person's inner desires/issues. For her, it resulted in a hallucination in which she saw her father in place of her new partner (now husband). She also did many body struggle during the night like a kid and said things like "I'll kill you", many times. I think that was already a clear proof that she is projecting her traumas, but somehow she still doesn't see it that way. She says that it's not her father that is doing the things in her relationship (things usually related to money and kids), so she just stands her ground in blaming the husband.

2) I understand that holding to your boundaries can be psychologically difficult, especially when you love this person and when you where brought up "running on empty" (this is a book reference). And it can take some time to mature and heal all scars from the past before one can endure a relationship with BPD partner. And once that's done, imposing boundaries with a boyfriend/girlfriend that lives apart becomes viable. However, there are a few factors that can enter the game and make it too hard to sustain real boundaries or to change the current dynamics:

• You are living in with your BPD partner, so you'll always be an available target.
• You work from home, so you're a target 24h per day.
• You have young kids which you must protect and take care, including a breastfeeding baby and kids from previous relationship.
• You are in country that strongly favours the other sex (the woman) in courts in regards to domestic violence, kids custody and pensions.
• You are short in cash to move out anyway, and a bit too exhausted/unmotivated to work more and make more money.

Though I don't want to say it's impossible. It's just much harder than what you described. Boundaries could be an effective form of containing the behavior and preventing it from scaling up. But would good boundaries motivate the partner to seek for treatment? Probably not, right?

So maybe I have made the wrong question here. Maybe I should be asking about motivation to change and accountability instead. That shall be another post.