Thanks CC43,
This was very helpful. It gives me the validation that I am moving forward in supporting my son without feeling I've failed unless I force the conversation now.

I would not ask someone who doesn't have the choice to leave to do so. It would not make sense to expect a Yes in such a case. Moreover, I do care for her. She does have her mother's house, where she was living before meeting me, and also has other parents living close who would accommodate her if she wanted. They are all willing to support her, except her father, who has been rejecting her.

Actually, she had already left our home before. After our first son was born, she became overly aggressive, so I began to ask her to leave for a few days. By then, I just wanted her to cool off. However, as soon as she left, she noticed that I was not showing signs of longing for her and, in fact, was being totally cold/distant (because I had been abused so much). So she began to see herself as unworthy and decided to stay there so that she would not be a burden to me anymore. I was ok with her staying there, because I thought the distance could motivate her to improve her attitude.

And yet it helps to withhold the attitude but does not improve the mental health issue. She actually got worse. Her anxiety increased tenfold. Her specific phobia got so bad that I had to use a sleep mask to enter her room and talk to her. And since she was going so fast into a downward spiral, and I knew the reason, I brought her back two months later. I had to keep using the sleep mask here for a while every time I got close to her, but gradually she recovered. There, she also developed depression with suicidal threats, which she wasn't experiencing before, and also recovered from that. Her aggressiveness was kind of contained, but only temporarily.

People tend to seek psychological reasons to explain what they feel, and she is one of those. She believes that the factor contributing to her deterioration and subsequent improvement was my presence. But I'm 100% sure that she is mistaken. It was not me. It was her gluten sensitivity. She was consuming gluten there every day. But here I only buy gluten-free food (because of her). The supplements also helped in her recovery. For instance, benfotiamine was critically important, as it quickly ended her visual/auditory hallucinations. Those hallucinations were a side effect of Ayahuasca and lasted for one year but had gotten worse during the gluten consumption period.

In regard to her autonomy, I believe that I give her as much as possible, but I have to monitor spending because of her impulsiveness and food compulsions. In the beginning of our relationship, I would transfer significant amounts of money to her account, and I wish I could still do that, but unfortunately I have the duty of monitoring it, which is another burden for me to carry.

Hi Green Jeans,

Welcome to the group.  With BPD in the mix, life can feel chaotic, and relationships are often strained.  I like how you mentioned boundaries, because boundaries are essential to protect yourself if your daughter isn't treating you right.

I know your back story is probably complicated, but I bet that here, you'll find some common themes.  I get the sense from your post that entitlement is an issue.  Indeed, the adult BPD stepdaughter in my life seems extremely entitled.  Her prevailing attitude is that her dad and I should be available to "drop everything" at a moment's notice to help her with various adulting tasks such as moving furniture, selling her car, giving her rides, giving her money or co-signing leases.  She seems to treat our home like a free hotel, and she expects to be allowed to move in whenever she wants, even though she's a disagreeable roommate and refuses to contribute.  While it's true she probably wouldn't be able to handle most of her issues (moving, housing, logistics) completely on her own, her demandingness and urgency seem over-the-top.  She seems oblivious that her dad and I might have other obligations at the moment.  Worse, she seems ungrateful, and once she's received our help, she typically reverts to being mean/dismissive/avoidant.  The relationship seems mostly transactional.  Nevertheless, she has made some progress towards carving a life out for herself.  Does that ring any bells?

By the same token, you might disapprove of your daughter's choices of boyfriends, or her decision to get married.  I bet you fear she's making a mistake, because that's what her past choices have been.  Let me guess, your daughter makes bad choices, but YOU are the one facing the consequences, right?  You have to bail her out all the time, and you resent her for that?  I guess my advice is to respect your daughter's choices, and you can tell her that:  "You're an adult, I respect your choices."  But you also allow her to face the consequences of those choices herself.  Otherwise, she'll never learn.  If that's your outlook, then maybe you could feel a little better about the upcoming nuptuals.  After all, your daughter is living her life, and you could feel happy for her.  But if you're not ready for that, I get it.  Maybe you're saying, you need to have tight boundaries and avoid too much interaction with your daughter right now, especially if she's abusive towards you.  That's OK too.

Thank you for responding!  Your words resonate, because I happen to see posts on FB (mainly her dance recitals) and my first (selfish) thought....why could I not make her happy, replaced with, as a parent, I must sacrifice being with her (well...not really my choice!) for her to be happy; I SHOULD mention, there is just salt to the wound because she associates with (I know this is a positive, because my mother keeps tabs on her & tells me how she is) my mother, sister and niece for the holidays (longer story, my sister and I do not associate due to a Covid "blow out" (I am not allowed over/vaccination issues....not the forum for that) THIS just makes the whole thing weirder, because my daughter despised going there, would nag & beg to leave the whole visit....I AM happy, 90 percent of the year....her birthday is this coming weekend, that is another hurdle....it is holidays and her birthday....I just have to "muddle" through those (well, the first Mother's Day was poop) however, I appreciate your advice and I know I am very lucky (I have 4 grandchildren and my younger daughter is very kind and supportive, though, I know she misses her sister): I have the nagging feeling I should do more (though, she blocked me, so, I don't really know what more that would be): I think it is harder this year because I don't even have an ADDRESS! I feel extremely disconnected....thank you!

Hello again,

I think I understand your worry, compounded by the fact that you can't seem to find the right time to have a complicated dialogue with your son.  I've been in that situation many, many times, perhaps most of the time these last few years.  I think that with complicated conversations, picking the right moment--when you're alone together, face to face, free of emotional distractions, in the right mindset--is extremely important.  Actually, I find that face-to-face isn't ideal for me, because it feels too intense; I prefer doing something in parallel, like walking or performing a household task, such as making a cup of tea.  You see, if he's not "ready," the conversation will likely not go very well.  I get the sense that you understand that.

In practice, I find I have to be very patient to find the right moment to broach a sensitive topic.  Sometimes I have to wait months for the right moment.  I'd say that's true for my adult BPD stepdaughter, as well as for her dad.  There's probably never a "perfect" moment, but I suspect you know what I mean.  I guess I'd counsel patience and restraint.  Wait for the moment your son mentions a relevant topic, such as stress at work, and you can find a thread to pull.  Sometimes I think I'm allowed a dozen words and as many seconds of air time, before a wall will go back up.

Maybe with the new year, you could ask your son what the highlight(s) of the year were for him.  I like this question because it's positive, open-ended, and the answers can be revealing.  Whatever he says his highlight is, you could underscore how he has a lot of positive things happening in his life, and that you're proud of him for making them happen.  That might set you up for a deeper conversation.

Hi townhouse,

Thanks for sharing.  I totally agree.  I too have grandchildren. Even though they’re far away, a breakup with their grandpa would disrupt my relationships with them as well, not to mention our adult children.

Bottomline,

 I’m handling him much better now.  I am more detached than ever before.  It’s his loss, and his fault — How could I love him, after all of the abuse?  But I have my own friends, and my own life. He can’t take that away from me.

Thanks again.
Jazz

We can't go back and edit but to add- I don't have a long term romantic situation with a person who has the range of behaviors your wife has and a history of severe trauma, but I did observe my parents in one- so I can not speak for how a motivating strategy affects a relationship over the long run. It didn't work well to do this with my BPD mother, but each person is their own individual and will respond in their own way.

I replied to your post about what is effective with this kind of trauma as it is known that EMDR is an approach but also to look at the idea of motivating someone. As much as I wish my mother would have been able to resolve her own trauma- what went on between her and the therapist was still completely up to her and also at her level of abilty to actually deal with it. I hope others in a similar situation to you can post their own experiences that may be helpful to you.

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This is true and humans are complex. It's also true that a spouse with BPD who is financially dependent and doesn't have the life skills to be self supportive may not have the actual choice to leave.

When you made the point about a person becoming useless and inert, even the most impaired humans have their own emotions and thoughts and react to their circumstances in some way. I think it is possible to have some control over another person if they aren't able to manage on their own- but they still will have their own emotions about it. I don't think humans are ever inert, nor do they want to be seen as useless. There is an innate quest for autonomy and they emotionally react to their circumstances.

You have experienced this with toddlers who, while being appropriately dependent on parents and under parental control, will still seek autonomy with what they can control- such as having a meltdown over being given a yellow cup when they wanted a blue cup at meals.

I don't have experience with a romantic relationship. I have observed this with my mother who had BPD. I suspect  from her behavior that she had some significant trauma in her younger years but I don't know what or who may have done it, but she would dissociate and act out on the people closest to her. She was both - paradoxically- dependent and had an emotional need to be cared for while also at times, controlling and verbally/emotionally abusive. In social situations, with people who were not as close to her- she could maintain a social persona, but the closer someone got to her, the more challenging it was to maintain that.

While having people do things for her met an emotional need, she still also wanted autonomy and control, even if it wasn't in her best interest to act on it.  Sometimes this didn't make sense unless seen in the context of her feelings and need for control, even when that control was limited, and also in the context of her being an autonomous human in her own right.

I believe you truly want what is best for your wife and for your family and that is for her to be motivated to work in at her own recovery in therapy. From your posts, it seems you are looking at ways to motivate your wife to get to therapy-  and change her behavior. I do think pwBPD can be externally motivated "hold it together" to some extent (more in relationships that aren't as close as family ones.) But is this indicative of real internal change? I don't know if the outcome of this approach can be predictable. Your wife is her own person.

We don't use our names here for a reason, and your story could describe at least a dozen other members here (probably hundreds).  So don't worry about being discovered on this site.  As a general rule, BPD Family is for family members of someone suffering with BPD.  We don't encourage BPDs to post and share here since we're not licensed therapists or specialists.

And so you know, overthinking comes with the territory.  For years with my BPD kid, I was so worried about what she'd do next that it heightened tensions for everyone in the house.  Once I finally learned to relax and take things day by day, things improved dramatically.