that's the kicker, when you're in it and things go south, it's a shock initially. Did that really just happen? It's new, hopefully it's a one-off. Then things start snowballing and it becomes the normal. You don't share initially, but at some point you start asking trusted sources if these things are common. And everyone's reaction is the same 'what the hell are you talking about? that's crazy, how do you deal with that?'. You don't see how bad it is due to the push/pull. Wonderful memories like you mentioned above but then complete and total illogical chaos. Riding a rollercoaster with no harness.

That your H went home sounds familiar to me. It's good that you were able to see the grandbaby.

It's also good that your son is realizing his situation but tread lightly with him on this. My father would flip back and forth on this. Coexisting with my BPD mother, he had to compartmentalize this, and use his denial.

So he at times appeared to "wake up" and acknowlege the issue. If I affirmed it- and agreed with him, he'd later turn on me and align with her again.

Karpman triangle dynamics are strong. There are bonds in relationships like your son and DIL that are hard to understand from the outside. I didn't fully understand why my father tolerated it either but he was as much a part of the dynamics as she was.

If someone was perceived as a threat to their relationship, they'd bond together against that perceived threat- BPD mother in victim position, Dad as rescuer. It was a strong bond.

Close family members to the partner are potential threats to the pwBPD because there are emotional ties between the parner and their family. If the family members are "on to her" the person with BPD- that feels like a threat to the pwBPD's self image and also the relationship. It seems inconceivable that a partner would cut off or turn against their parents, siblings, and even children but these are the people more likely to be perceived as threats.

BPD mother saw people as being "on her side" or "not her side" and to stay in her favor, one had to align with her.

There were times when my father either didn't go somewhere, or went home early, according to my mother's feelings.

I recall several times in high school, I would be at a friend's house and my mother would call, out of the blue, apparently angry- for no reason I knew about and demand I come home right away. Once I got home, she had no reason for me to be there. It wasn't even about the friend. She just wanted to make me come home. I think it was about control, although as a teen, I had no idea why she did that.

Later though, in her elder years, I realized that due to her anxiety- she could not handle being alone at all. She didn't necessarily want someone to be right there with her, but she wanted them to be available to her right away whenever she wanted them to be, if she wanted them. BPD mother had an emotional need for people to do things for her, even if they were things she could do for herself, like run errands, bring her a glass of water. So- while a reason was control- the reason for the control was to have someone available to meet her needs immediately- as it served to alleviate her anxiety. If my father had to be at work, a teen child could also serve in that role if he wasn't available.

What your son told you was partially true but I don't think it was the whole of it. I don't think he was avoiding the truth- I think he didn't fully understand all that was going on. Often the "reason" presented by the pwBPD isn't the whole reason because they perceive their internal feelings as something external to them. Sounds like DIL didn't want him to be with his family because that felt like a threat to her but also, she may not have been able to emotionally manage being alone and wanted your son to be right there if she felt she needed him.

IMHO, when it comes to your son, if he wants to talk, listen supportively,  but be careful what you say. Don't enable but don't step into becoming seen as a threat to the relationship or pwBPD.

Oh yeah. Facial expressions. Deep breaths. Simply having an off day where you're not talkative. They will notice immediately. And call you out. They will push and push TELLING you that you're mad. You can calmly and kindly explain you're just fine or tired or just feeling 'off'. This will go on until you finally do get mad and pop off somehow. Then suddenly the entire conversation becomes about how you raised your voice and are verbally abusive and never cared about them. And also how you don't know how to communicate. LOSE-LOSE

same here. My ex had bpd/depression/adhd/anxiety. Psychologist/Psychiatrist. In 3 days it will be an entire year since the end. While I am in a much better head space, I cannot even imagine going on a date with anyone, or even trust them sadly. I have a lot of self improvement to do in regards to how I choose my partners. I also don't trust myself yet. And yes the rush of feel good chemicals is unmatched by anything I've experienced. The bad times are soul crushing. I need to make myself realize that that isn't normal. We all have our own timeline.

I am stunned to learn how many ppl are out there haveing arguments on whether or not the other made a sound or had a facial expresion the other didn't like. I have had so many incidents like this I strive to keep my face neutral and not make any odd sounds...yet if they are dys-regulated they will often accuse me of 'acting off' even if they cannot explain exactly how. Then its off to the races again. If you insist there is nothing wrong you will be shouted at. If you try and come up with some issues that may be troubling you you may be instantly dismised because they're the one with the real troubles, you don't have anything worth worrying about.

I’m in a similar boat, although my son is out of state and we haven’t actually seen him in almost two years (we were going to visit in the summer but had to cancel due to a severe split and he didn’t want us to come).  This past weekend was pretty bad, some first-time accusations that I’m not sure we can get past without some type of acknowledgement and apology (usually he moves on as if nothing happened/he didn’t say cruel things).  I strongly feel that there is a correlation with him binge-smoking weed along with some separate problem that occurs (that most people can move on from) and his raging splits that usually involve threats of self-harm.   He of course does not see this.    I, like you, feel like no one else can understand what we go through, at least in my circle.  So I silently suffer.  I actually dread when someone asks how I am.  “Do you really want to know?” .  I’m sorry you are going through this, I truly know how tough and painful this is to live with.

It is good you are in therapy. Our family of origin does influence who we are with as a partner. I have had to work on my own freeze and fawn, co-dependent tendencies.

Attempting to change BPD mother's spending was impossible. I tried, her family members tried. It did feel like dealing with an addict who couldn't manage being cut of from her supply. But she also didn't seem to have a real concept of money- because her needs, and many wants, had been provided for, regardless of what she spent. When my father was working, if she spent money, there was more.

Eventually though- after retirement, the inflow of money changes and people need to learn how to manage that. The reality is that- if your wife continues her spending after retirement, the result could be dire. BPD mother had a monthly sum of money and in addition, she spent all her savings, and then, the house- without us knowing it. I don't know if she ever intended to tell us. But speaking to her, she seemed to not understand the consequences of what she did.

Her funds were so low, that she was in danger of the house being repossessed by the bank. And she was elderly, and needed assisted living help. What I had assumed was that- by the time she needed this, we could sell the house and use that money to pay for help for her. But now, unknown to us, she'd leveraged the house too.

Seeing my concern over this, she cornered me, insinuating I was after the house as an inheritance. My reply to her was "I don't care if the bank takes the house then, I care if the bank takes the house now, while you are in it". She acted shocked, she had no idea the bank could do that.

The only thing that stopped her spending was low funds in her account. I even consulted an attorney to see if I could intervene, but as long as she was legally competent, we could not. We'd not have let her go without essentials,  but we had to have a boundary, and BPD mother would challenge boundaries.

She'd call me with requests for things she didn't need. Items it would be draconian to refuse her. She'd call and say she was cold and needed a blanket or a sweater. But she had several blankets and sweaters. Truly, I'd have loved to give her a blanket, or a sweater, if I thought she'd actually like it, but I had seen this dynamic enough to know that this wasn't about a blanket. She didn't want a blanket. This was a manipulation.

With money though- there is a boundary. If all the money is spent, there's none left. If you leverage the house, the bank can take it. While your concern for your wife is how she could manage, at some point, there is a limit. Consider is it better for her to learn it now, while the two of you are working and independent?

Sorry for the long delay. We did go down the appeasement route and in September we were allowed to visit. We did not stay in their house but rented an AirBnB nearby for a few days, but we got to meet our new granddaughter as well was our grandson for the first time in 9 months. Our son looked terrible - he has been diagnosed with burn-out due to working long hours as well as most of the parenting responsibilities. This week was our other son's birthday so his brother drove across from Switzerland to go to the birthday party in England. He hadn't told his wife he was going to a party, so when she found out she had a massive meltdown and demanded he drive home immediately. We tried to persuade him to stay, even just an extra day, but he said he can't. If he ever stands up to her she makes his life hell, and he does not think it is worth it if the time he gets to spend with his children is ruined by her being angry. He says he wants us to visit again in a couple of months. They will be at her parents' house for Christmas so we won't get to see any of them then.

The only positive we take from this latest episode is that our son is starting to see that she is the problem, and is even talking about her behaviour as an illness. He said she did not actually want him to go home, she just did not want him to be with us and his brother.

In the USA family courts appear to have a policy that they disregard unsubstantiated allegations older than 6 months.  Essentially the undocumented "he said... she said..." is viewed as hearsay and then set aside.  Yes, they'll take a quick look but I recall when I was testifying about my ex's behavior the magistrate stopped me at the 6 month mark.  Of course, officials will pay closer attention when there is documentation or evidence of child abuse or child neglect.  But most courts get so many emotion-based allegations that they may quickly react just in case but then have a more skeptical stance when there isn't any substance behind the claims, as in smoke versus fire.

I explain it this way... picture a person calling emergency services saying, "My ex almost burned down my house last week!"  Imagine the responder replying, "It's not an emergency now, call back when you have an ongoing emergency."

Check your local state or country's laws, procedures and policies in case it is similar where you live.

For the benefit of others here, I previously mentioned some other ideas on your prior post.

After I ended it with my GF, who had BPD/C-PTSD/anxiety, depending on which therapist was consulted, I had to take a break. I generally think it's a bad idea to leap into another relationship anyway, but especially so after her.

Something someone with BPD, etc., seems to know on an instinctive level is how addicting their behavior is. That's part of the love bombing and incredible sex. Whether intended or not, it can hook us in, as we're flooded with feel good chemicals, not to mention the general boost to feelings and self esteem. I can't honestly say my relationship with her was more intense than some others in the past, but the intensity was different. When things were good, the constant attention and physicality were unmatched, at least in terms of their duration. Once that tap was cut off, the opposite was true.

Expecting that from someone healthy and balanced is too much. Yes, any romantic relationship can have those moments, but the frequency is different. And there's usually some kind of catalyst. With someone with BPD, etc., it's a part of the cycling. You don't really have to do anything but be in the right place at the right time. If you think a romantic partner is simply going to throw herself at you all the time in the same way, that's not realistic. If it happens, you're lucky, and I don't mean that in a demeaning way. I just mean enough beneficial things occur to make it happen. That usually requires some contribution to it.

So, to me, you have to wait until the chemicals are out of your body and mentally, you're in a space where you're not expecting to replicate them.
It's no different than if someone who is recovering drug or alcohol addict thinks a few days or weeks after recovery they can just rush off to the next big party. They need to wait to make sure they're grounded.