Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm very sorry we're meeting under these circumstances but I'm glad you found us and shared a little bit of your journey.

For your specific example, I would actually take dad's side (even though the basis is 100% off).  There's no harm in telling your mom to take a few classes, that she's smart and capable enough to get back in school.

Now, I understand you don't want to because it's not about the topic at hand, it's a 24/7 cesspool of validating needs that are never quite enough.

At their core, BPDs need to feel needed.  And almost 100% of your mom's rants aren't over schooling or whatever, they're protests that she's not feeling needed, validated, etc in the moment.  He rant over schooling probably has nothing to do with anything and she's probably already forgot about it.  Now there's a new pressing need, and tomorrow there will be another.

Here's the thing though, when you "opt out" of that conversation, now you're proving your mom's delusions inside her mind that she's actually not needed or appreciated.  So for me, it's easier to just say, "You're smart and capable, go back to college if that's what you need."  Because what could she say after that?  Either she does it or she doesn't, but it's 100% her fault from that point forward.

Because that's the thing, your mom will never complain about what actually matters.  Why?  If she said that she didn't feel needed, and you say, "Nope mom, you're not," then that would break her in ways she couldn't recover from.  So it's always something else in an attempt to receive that same validation in less healthy ways. 

All I can say is God bless your dad.  I've been there and I did the same thing, having zero clue what was actually going on (because I was too close to the situation and too all-in on marriage).  She ultimately left me in the end to have an affair, so I hope and pray your dad doesn't end up in the same position.  I can see so clearly now that I enabled so much and accepted so much that I shouldn't have, but I don't regret it since I did it out of love and faith.

I hope that helps!

When your son isn't acting like your son, he's thinking in a disordered way.  You're trying to follow his thoughts and actions logically...or in an ordered way of thinking.  And you never find the answers because you're comparing apples to oranges.

When he's disordered, the logic part of his mind shuts off...or at least becomes much less dominant...and he has delusions of why the world is a cold, dark place.  The real problem is mental illness, he's thinking in a harmful way.  But he can't accept that so he looks for other things to blame.  It must be the neighbor's dog, it must be my boss at work, it must be my crappy car, etc.

Then the disordered thinking goes to another level.  If it wasn't for the neighbor's dog, I wouldn't have to drive that crappy car.  It's all the neighbor's fault, he's ruining my life and making everything so complicated.  So he begins to observe the neighbor to build "proof" of his disordered thinking.  Oh look, he left his trash cans in the road, that proves everything!  Now I know for a fact that he bought that annoying dog just to ruin my life (....and it somehow forces me to keep driving this crappy car).

Does that make sense?  If you're mentally ill, you rely more on feelings in the moment than logic.  I feel bad, so the world is bad and I don't want to be here.  Or the opposite, I'm feeling great so the world is perfect and I'm fully in control.  Neither is true or logical, even though it might FEEL THAT WAY in the moment.

I hope that helps.

My BPD ex wife (of 23 years) was always running to rescue someone.  My 26 year old BPD daughter does exactly the same thing.  As long as they're off saving the world, they feel validated.

For my ex, that could be he brother needing help with their lawn.  Her other brother needing money or food.  Her parents fixing a leaky pipe.  The neighbor trying to find a home for a stray dog.  It really didn't matter what, she was always running towards something.  "But they need me," she'd say as she cancelled our weekend plans or explained why she was getting home at 11 PM for the third night in a row.

Over time, my wife was on the run more and more, there was always something to do or someone to save.  But what she was really doing was running away from our marriage.  Not that it was bad, mind you, but because she just didn't want to face growing as a couple and dealing with what we needed to do.

For instance, we had to replace a porch railing on some stairs.  I bought the lumber, but the wood, and just needed an extra set of hands to put everything together in place.  This weekend we'll do it, I promise.  But months went by, every Saturday and Sunday there was an emergency somewhere, something else she had to do.  Six months went by, and then a year.  Still zero time to help me at our home, even though she's out there "saving the world" and "solving everyone's problems."

For your situation, you're correct in your wife's hero complex.  As I said, my wife and kid both have it as well.  You can use that to your advantage though in needing your wife in a different way.  Show her you want to cook with her, plan with her, handle finances with her, etc.  Make her feel indispensable, because that's how a marriage should feel.

But at the same time, the narcissist attacks must stop.  Make clear boundaries- you want to do life with her, but you don't want the fighting and drama.  It's so hard to find the balance but it is possible.

Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm so sorry you're struggling and unfortunately, it will continue until you stand your ground.

My BPD daughter is 26, about to be 27 in a few months, and I've been through the same battles.  I had to cut her off and let her experience the world on her own so she could break past the entitlement and we could have a different relationship.  It was painful to watch but it was all her decision- I simply said, "If you live here, you'll be respectful and help out.  If you don't want to do that, then you're going to leave."

So she left and she hated me...but she also hated me when I was paying for everything and doing everything for her.  Over time though, she realized that living with dad wasn't a bad option.  Our relationship changed because she changed, she stopped feeling entitled.

You are responsible for you only.  Your daughter is responsible for her life.  Don't confuse the two.  Take back your home and stop accepting abuse.

For BPDs, there's almost always a belief that if they just had this one thing, their life would be perfect and they wouldn't be mentally ill anymore.  But time after time, they get what they want and there's soon a new thing that they must have for life to make sense.  A new job, a new partner, a new epic vacation, a new car, the list can be endless and none of them fix the actual problem in their minds.

It's just a stopgap- everyone's happy when they get shiny new things.  But that happiness always wears off.

For your BPD partner, marriage won't fix things.  Next it will be a baby, a new home, etc.  It will make things tougher on you though because the dynamic with your kids will change, and your partner's stance will change too since you should always stand by your wife. 

My advice is not to be forced into marriage over a false promise.  Therapy, medication, and a willingness to change is what makes a difference.  Everything else is just a temporary fix.

I've spent the last two years in therapy processing the impact of BPD in three significant personal relationships--my mother, my ex-husband and my former stepson. I no longer have contact with the ex-husband or stepson, but I do still have a sometimes good, sometimes less good relationship with my mom.

I've learned how to navigate things with my mom much better for the most part, although there are still moments where I am triggered by her behaviors. The issue I have more difficulty navigating, and one that's been a regular discussion point in therapy, is my relationship with my dad when it comes to his enabling/appeasement of my mom, specifically because his enabling often involves asking me and my other siblings to participate in that enabling. We find ourselves essentially serving as his proxy in a relationship dynamic we didn't choose or agree to.

Of course he wouldn't identify it this way--I don't know if he even recognizes her BPD for what it. He sees her as "high maintenance" and "difficult to handle." My family is very religious and for him I think leaving her was never an option and the path of least resistance (appeasement) always seemed like his best path. Recognizing my resentment toward him for this in therapy this year was a big aha moment. My dad is one of the kindest, most empathetic people you will ever meet, so it's difficult for me to hold my deep love and also very real resentment toward him in the same space.

Now that I have named this dynamic for what it is, I am no longer willing to participate. But I need to figure out how to set these boundaries clearly and gently with him and my siblings. The challenge there is that my whole family knows how my mom is, and they will roll their eyes and complain about her, but for the most part, if the appeasement doesn't seem overly burdensome, they will just go along to get along. Or they'll do like I have often done in the past and try to find a way to avoid whatever the issue/conversation is altogether.

Here's an example of what this looks IRL, which just came up yesterday. My sister sent a long message to all the siblings about a message Dad had sent her. Mom is in victim mode again, throwing herself a pity party because she's the only one of our family without a college degree and that somehow excludes her from social opportunities, so she is "stuck" at home all the time. (Don't ask me to do the mental gymnastics on that one). And no one appreciates her. So Dad wants us to see if we can think of free or cheap classes that she could take to advance her education (they're low income). Also to give her a lot of compliments while everyone is home from Christmas.

I think my dad thinks these requests are benign. I think the rest of my family finds them annoying but also benign & they just don't want any drama. I, on the other hand, responded to my sister's message by saying that, while Dad has the prerogative to decide what his relationship with Mom looks like, we are all adults now and I think it's best we navigate our own individual relationships with her on our own terms.

I said it this way because honestly, deep down, I felt like if I simply said I was opting out, it would sound selfish because, I mean, how hard is it to give someone a few extra compliments? But we all know it goes deeper than that, because now I'm in the position of satisfying her emotional deficits for her.

My sister got a bit defensive (I wasn't debating with her, just saying how I planned to handle it) and basically said she was just relaying Dad's message. My brothers were both radio silent, which is typical. We all ignore the elephant in the room, despite the deep and lasting wounds we all carry from our tumultuous childhood (basically all of us are or have been in extremely dysfunctionial/unhealthy marriages).

I would love some ideas on how to communicate these boundaries with my dad and siblings both, without sounding like I just don't care. My sister has done some therapy but she's the only other one in my family who has. In some ways I feel like therapy gave me a whole new language to describe my personal experience, and now there's a translation issue when I try to talk about these issues with my family.

How do I explain why it's important to me to say I'm not going to tell my mom how much I appreciate her just to prop up her self worth, when it will just be this same cycle all over again next time?

SoVeryConfused,  Thank you for sharing your heart. I relate totally to what you wrote. It feels so unnatural to relate to my son in ways that actually help my son have a chance to recover and live my life too. I like you am learning and trying new behaviors. Baby steps. There is a lot to grieve and I believe that is a part of this walk. I'm learning acceptance. I feel for your struggle as well
This is definitely not easy, I glad for people like you that understand.

Well, when hearing unfounded accusations and blaming, I've tried the gray rock method, avoiding JADE, and trying to be loving with a hug.  Sometimes it works, sometimes not so much.  I guess if they sound like a broken record, it's because they ARE a broken record.  Nothing I do or say will make any difference when they're in a funk/rage.  Sometimes I've found that the best response is none at all.  The broken record will keep running until they get tired out, bored or distracted by something else.  Sometimes I suspect they enjoy the drama, as if they have an insatiable desire to say mean things and release their discontent.  I do NOT enjoy drama so usually try to make a quiet escape. 

I guess I've resigned myself to just let them have a meltdown, and then to give them an "adult time out."  I do my best not to interrupt the time out.

If the pwBPD isn't treated, she will cling to her victim attitude like her life depends on it.  You see, she blames everyone else, especially the people closest to her, for all her problems and negative feelings.  The sad thing is, this renders her powerless and makes her feel alienated, when what she desperately wants is closeness.  She expects others to fix her problems and make her feel better, and she's constantly disappointed when that doesn't happen.  Her frustrations need an outlet, namely the accusations and blaming.  If you understand that, perhaps it won't hurt you quite as much.  Just try not to reinforce her bad behavior with attention, and lay on the praise and encouragement when she's regulated, maybe even nice from time to time. 

Does angry staring At you until you apologize count?

I appreciate your response and insight thank you Rowdy