I doubt my ex would try to come back anyway, it’s just something my youngest son said the other day. She was supposed to go away with her boyfriend but apparently he couldn’t go so she asked our son to go. He said the reason given was the puppies they have got, and said she didn’t want his son looking after them. My son pointed out that before we split up and for  a while after, she would get his son to come round and look after them while we were at work, and that excuse didn’t make sense, and believes his mum and her boyfriend are not getting on too well.

I spoke with my eldest earlier today, and he said the reason she gave for leaving me for the boyfriend was apparently because he could look after her financially better than I could. He also said she would make a mess up and say it doesn’t matter he will pay for that. So pretty toxic relationship.

Hi there,

Well it sounds to me like you know what's going on with your man.  Like you wrote, you've been taking care of yourself more lately, which seems to have provoked increasingly toxic behavior.  Indeed he's having "adult tantrums," shouting and saying mean things with an adult's vocabulary (calling you a c*** instead of a poo-poo face).  If you substituted c*** with poo-poo face, maybe you'd see how childish he's being, and you wouldn't take his insults to heart.  It sounds to me like he's projecting--saying you're the one creating a scene, when it's really him (and he knows it).  Look, if all your man can come up with is to call you a c***, then he's not very creative, or you're so nice to him he can't come up with any insults that really sting!  It's almost confirmation that it's 100% his problem.  Granted, I bet he wants 100% of your attention, 100% of the time, and the fact that you're showing a little independence and taking care of yourself is "triggering" him.  But let's face it, being a full-time indentured servant is not healthy for anyone.  I think he should be more supportive of your self-care efforts.

Earlier today I posted a reply on the son/daughter section about how pwBPD seem especially triggered at holidays.  It's as if they can't stand seeing other people be joyful and provide cheerful updates, because they themselves feel so miserable.  It's like a little kid who screams at his friend's birthday party, it's my birthday next month.  He just can't bear not being the center of attention at all times, and instead of enjoying the celebration in honor of somebody else, he makes a scene to spoil it.  I call that "spoiling" behavior, and unfortunately I've had to endure it countless times with the pwBPD in my life.

I've had so many holidays and vacations ruined by the pwBPD in my life that I've vowed not to allow that to happen anymore.  In practice, what that means is (i) not relying on her participation for the event to happen and (ii) if she throws a fit, I let her have one, but I don't cancel plans because of her.  Maybe what you could do is to travel to events separately, so that you're not reliant on your husband for transportation or for arriving on time.  He can arrive late (or not at all), or leave early, it's his choice.  And you can go at your leisure, without worrying that he'll make YOU late.

I'd say, if your husband sends you mean texts, delete them like spam, because they are spam.  If you reply, you're dignifying his text with a response, and "rewarding" it with your attention.  I'd say, not responding is generally better.

I understand he can be mean, a real bully.  My guess is he is extremely insecure, maybe even jealous of you.  One way to counteract this is to try to be reassuring when he's not in a bad mood.  One phrase I use is, "I choose to be with you every day."  And then I throw on the praise when my man is being nice--bringing me coffee, taking out the trash, giving me a hug.  It's not hard for me to do that because I do appreciate the nice things he does for me.  Similarly, when he engages in self-care, I lay on the praise:  I'm glad you're seeing the doctor for a check up, I'm glad you're going to the gym, I'm glad you're taking good care of yourself.  Then when I perform acts of self-care and he starts to complain or push back, I say (firmly and just one time), I support you when you take care of yourself, and I expect the same from you (end of discussion).

Hi sm1981 ,

No, the BPD assessment does not take weeks. It is done in a single session. The therapist should already know the patient well before doing this, but the actual assessment is done based on a series of questions that the patient and therapist answer together, and it doesn't take too long. Are you sure he is going to where he says he is going?

The pwBPD will only get diagnosed if they ever find a therapist with whom they feel safe and not criticized, and that's what DBT is designed to do.

Do you know for certain why you are still in this relationship? Is it because the good moments were very good and you wished they would happen more often? Is it an emotional necessity of yours to have those good moments?

Do you want to divorce but find obstacles? Or do you want to fix the relationship? Have you considered LAT (living apart together)?

Hi used2baShyFilly ,

Are you able to set boundaries? While living with my wife, I wasn't. Because the house is small, we don't have an extra bed, and I work from home. So she could keep harassing me all day if she wasn't happy with something. Because boundaries must be enforceable, but I could not enforce anything while living together.

The fact that you have succeeded with some types of counseling is quite surprising. Usually, couples therapy does not work when one of the partners has BPD, so they have to go through individual therapy, but it must be specialized.

My wife has been to different therapists, but it didn't last much. Recently I asked her if it was because she felt criticized. In response, she remained silent and just shook her head, but I noticed she was angry and felt like crying but tried to conceal it. It seems like she was holding deep shame. This is why pwBPD need specialized therapy, such as DBT, which doesn't make them feel like "an all-wrong person." You can understand this better from the words of Marsha Linehan, who created it: https://youtu.be/bULL3sSc_-I

Yes, talking to our partner won't be enough to make them change at all, because this has roots in their biology, but change is possible with specific treatments. So I still have hopes for the future.

Hi mom,

You've come to the right place.  Many parents here are desperate and exhausted from years of tension, high conflict and familial dysfunction.  You've had it rough, with a child with serious illness, another with BPD and now your husband's medical crisis.  It's logical that you're operating in crisis mode.

The way I see things though, your daughters seem to be doing OK, relatively speaking.  They're out of the house and making some sort of adult life for themselves, right?  Maybe if they're not on top of each other all the time in your home, you can enjoy some relative peace.

Though your husband is ill right now, I can see that your daughter has taken issue by being asked to help out.  She has herself and own husband to take care of.  If she has BPD, then I imagine that her own problems seem overwhelming enough as it is, and adding your issues on top makes her have a meltdown.  Now, she shouldn't have lashed out at you, but I imagine that the request seemed over-the-top to her, maybe that you were trying to "guilt" her into helping, and that you seemed too needy.  In her mind, you're the mom, you're supposed to help her, not the other way around.  She only thinks about her needs, not yours.  Then stating that you're not hosting Christmas (which seems completely fair given illness, your other daughter's hostile behavior and your fragile mental state), your daughter probably thinks that you're "abandoning" her on yet another level.  However I think she should take that news in stride--she's 29, she could be hosting her own Christmas with her husband and creating her own holiday traditions.  Alas, on top of distress intolerance, she's intolerant of changes, while she maintains extremely high expectations of others.  I think she needs lots and lots of patience to adjust to changes.  Does that sound about right?

I know you are hurt because your daughter told your husband she was pregnant and not you.  I can see how that might sting.  But the reality is, you know the news, and you should be joyful, not sour because you weren't told "first" or in the way you would have liked.  I'd say, just be happy about the news, and not worry about the way you found out about it.  There is absolutely nothing stopping you from celebrating your daughter's news.  Even if she won't talk to you right now, you could still send her a congratulatory message (just please don't make it sound needy or angry).  Look, sometimes with adult children with BPD, patience is the key.  Your daughter might not want to celebrate with you right now.  I'd say, just be patient and wait until she's ready.  Then you can "shower" her with joy.  I think it shouldn't matter WHEN that happens.  Just try to be patient and wait.  I wouldn't hold it over her head, or do anything that seems needy or like a bribe ("I have some baby gifts for you if you'll come get them.").  What I do is "park" the joy/festivity/gifts and wait, patiently, for the moment when she's ready.

Look, I think you've been hit by a double whammy.  On the one hand, you have the holidays, and on the other, you have a major illness in the family.  I've found that both the holidays and illness are gigantic triggers for pwBPD.  I've written about that theory elsewhere on these boards.  I think holidays are triggering because pwBPD can't stand to see others be happy and getting attention/gifts, when they themselves feel so morose and unlikeable.  Being amidst joy basically reminds them that they're miserable, and they feel extraordinarily jealous of others.  Similarly, any illness or death in the family can be a major trigger, because attention is temporarily diverted away from them.  Any threat that your attention is elsewhere, and they have meltdown, in an attempt to reclaim the center of attention.  They can't stand (or understand) that you have some extra needs right now, and if you take time or resources to tend to your own needs, they feel "abandoned."  Does that make sense?

I guess I'd have some advice for you to consider.  First, I'd prioritize self-care.  You're not thinking straight if you're having heart  palpitations.  I think you should relieve yourself of some of that emotional burden and focus on getting your husband stabilized.  If you need some time for yourself, take it.  If you need more sleep, put yourself to bed early.  If you need to hire some help and can afford it, I'd say, do it.  Maybe that looks like hiring some home nurse care or house cleaners.  Maybe it looks like cutting some corners, like buying semi-prepared meals or using paper plates.  Maybe it means you cut back on hosting events at holidays--or maybe you still "host" but outsource meal preparation by ordering from/going to a restaurant?  I do NOT recommend that you make any announcements here:  "I'm not hosting guests anymore because I'm overwhelmed by stress;" and don't make your changing plans sound like a "punishment."  I think you just decline to do some things, and only if people ask, just say, "We're simplifying things for the time being because my husband is ill."  I think everyone should understand, and if they don't, then that's on them.

Finally I'll wrap up with the observation that your BPD daughter is still in touch because she's talking with her dad.  I think that's great.  You can keep tabs on her that way.  My guess is that she alternates between disliking you and her dad (who you say was tough on her as a kid).  That's classic BPD, painting people all white or all black, back and forth, back and forth, push pull, push pull.  I know it hurts not to be talking with her right now, but my guess is that it's only temporary.  She still needs you desperately, and my bet is she'll be back talking with you when she's ready.  Just try to be patient and not take things so personally, OK?

Hi SuperDaddy,

I've been a stay at  home mom since our first child was born 38 years ago.  My husband retired 5 years ago but works part time with various hours.  I like being home alone better than with him, so I understand the part about not being able to live together.  It seems most things we try to do together end up in a fight due to his temper flaring. 

We/he/me ;) have/has done counseling, secular and bible based.  Some has helped, some hasn't.  He won't go to long term counseling just for himself and do any digging to understand his thinking or responses but occasionally acknowledges things he does and says are not right.  We spend every morning watching a sermon which seems to be slowly helping. 

Christian counseling has helped me let go of bitterness and accept that people won't change no matter how hard I try to make them understand something.

I haven't given up and I'm in a good place emotionally right now as I've gotten a better understanding of what is going on.  My biggest challenge is balancing everything, being true to me, setting boundaries, detaching as needed for my health. 

Think about it this way.  You have a rough conversation with someone and you know they're due home in an hour.  So you're stressed, waiting for the fallout, and when they enter the door, your body language is already saying everything that your mind feels.

The BPD person walking in the door is looking for clues towards rejection or abandonment, and your body language tells them you'd rather be anywhere but there.  So no matter what you say, it's a losing battle from the very start.

I was guilty of this so many times with my BPD daughter since every interaction was potentially explosive.  This is literally walking on eggshells and it's why that's such a bad technique for dealing with mental illness.

I read an interesting comment that seems relevant to the subject.

It is said that when we communicate it is only 7% verbal, with the rest made up of body language and tone of voice.
It kind of makes sense really, we have all at some point asked a loved one if they are ok, for them to respond that they are, yet we can pick up by their tone or body language that they are not.

With that in mind, as I said earlier and Me88 also experience, when we try to apologise to a pwBPD it is like banging our heads on a brick wall, because of their heightened sense of abandonment and being wronged. It will then, or in my case at least, lead to the point where our apologies are made with a frustrated tone of voice, because we are repeatedly apologising and getting more and more frustrated that our words are not getting through.

This is when the pwBPD picks up on that tone of voice, and because it is becoming more and more fractious, believe your words don’t match your tone of voice or body language, so your words are less likely to be how you truly feel.

I don’t think it’s that uncommon for a pwBPD to believe they are an empath, and have a heightened perception of peoples feelings which, personally, I feel only adds to their confusion and the black and white thinking when it comes to you trying to rationalise with them.

You often hear people say text messaging can be difficult because things can easily be taken out of context because there is no tone or body language in a text message, and that is kind of what it feels like when trying to have a conversation when they are dysregulated. On the other hand I’d often think I wished I could only communicate with her in text as that would give me opportunity to try and make sure I didn’t put one word out of place and she couldn’t use her perception of my body language or tone of voice against me.

2 months ago, my then-live in partner X (undiagnosed, both they and I have recognised they strongly fit BPD criteria) cheated on me by having sex with someone else while I had a reasonable expectation of a monogamous relationship. X has since denied that their actions constituted cheating.

We had been live in monogamous partners for a year. Two weeks before, X had told me they did not want to have any kind of romantic relationship, friendship or connection with me going forward. However, shortly after that (within hours/ days) we returned to living as a couple - cuddling and sleeping together, cooking and eating, having sex at his initiation. X had previously verbally ended our relationship at least 4x, then went back to living together as if nothing had happened within minutes/ hours. We considered ourselves partners for the duration, and X later had no recollection of these 'breakups'.

For me, fidelity means being accountable to the mutually understood commitments within a relationship. If your partner has a reasonable expectation that you are monogamous, then it's up to you to communicate clearly that this has changed before you violate that expectation. Given that X's actions looked like a continuation of our established partnership, and that the words used to 'undo' that had been revoked or undermined by his actions, I believe X's behaviour did not meet the requirements of fidelity or integrity.

X has oscillated on this. At first, he claimed he had done nothing wrong and that we were broken up. However, he also expressed extreme guilt for having kept me up worrying about him, to the extent that he spent an entire day aimlessly wandering without eating (while continuing to assert that he had not cheated).

Later, when I said to him I thought his actions were in fact a sexual violation that could reasonably be called cheating, he nodded and said 'sorry'. He seemed so ashamed he could not even raise his head.

X's previous live-in relationship ended due to his having an affair. X has expressed extreme guilt about this, saying it took a long time to realise he was not a 'bad person'.

A couple of weeks after, X suddenly decided that we were not in a relationship - not by breaking up, but by claiming we were already broken up. This wasn't true - after the fiasco, I'd made sure to define verbally and explicitly that we were in a relationship, and X had promised that he wasn't going to do it (the cheating) again. While claiming this (that we were broken up), X made statements that were internally inconsistent/ incoherent.

He also expressed anger with me for ruining his day by 'talking endlessly' and 'making him have a PLEASE READ time' and 'feel bad' (the day after I learned about the cheating... during which I also took him out for pancakes, ). I found it extremely painful and by certain definitions, abusive, to first have my trust violated, then be denigrated for having a normal emotional reaction to that.

X has also claimed that I/ our relationship makes him feel 'guilty for existing'. I pointed out that during a previous suicidal episode, he had claimed someone else made him feel 'guilty for existing'. I said while my actions have been PLEASE READed and unkind at times, his mental health spirals are not totally attributable to others. I also offered financial/ logistical support in getting mental health support if he needed it and have repeatedly done this during the relationship.

X told me that I need to invent a story about his mental health because I can't deal with the guilt of being cruel to him. Explaining the context is difficult. a typical example would be brushing him off/ expressing frustration/ annoyance when he asks for computer help late at night, and doing this often over a 2-3 month period. i know dismissiveness and frustration can be very painful and destructive to someone who cares for you, and I believe my actions meet that threshhold. I am deeply sorry for this and have expressed that to X.

But on reflection, I don't believe my actions rise to the threshhold of cruelty. These are normal, albeit challenging, experiences that arise over the course of a relationship. 

I wonder if what may be happening is that X is deeply shamed by having violated his own values. Rather than dealing with this, he is projecting onto me.

At other times, X has shown great courage and integrity but shown little self compassion and strong self hatred, including suicidal ideation expressed to me on >100 occasions. It feels like that is now being projected outwards.

Intellectually, I understand that X is not being accountable to reality and there is nothing I can do to make this happen. But emotionally, I have relied on X's perspective for a long time, and they have shown a lot of wisdom that has helped me. It's really hard to bridge the cognitive dissonance between the person I have known and the person who exists now. The facts tell me one thing, and my feelings tell me another.

As a result, I have been experiencing severe anxiety including involuntary muscle spasms.

There is a sense of strong fear about an unstable reality. It's not that I doubt any particular elements of what has happened - in fact, the more I think about the facts and set them out in an attempted objective way, the clearer it becomes that there isn't much doubt. It's more a generalised sense of everything is wrong or nothing is stable or even that I (the person) am wrong in some existential, unspecified sense. 

Does anyone have tips on how to deal with this? I already meditate though not regularly enough.

I've been with my partner 8 years he's undiagnosed but is undergoing assessments (so he tells me - not sure what to believe as he's promised before to seek help and didn't follow it up)  for a variety of things (he's been having weekly/2 weekly appointments with mental health team since before Xmas.

I feel like the last 8 years have consisted of constant cycles of huge blow ups (adult toddler tantrums) then a period of calm ground zero where things are okay again and then round and round we go.  It used to be when it was good it was really good - but now even then its not great.

Birthdays, Christmas , holidays are all spoiled.  He's regularly verbally abusive to me (I've asked him not to call me a c**t til I'm blue in the face but its his favourite word for me - his answer "if you don't want to be called one don't be one)

I've recently attended a domestic violence support group which was met with complete contempt - he calls it my "club" and that we all sit around smugly about how we're "survivors" - he says I'm not abused (I can categorically say he is an abuser mostly verbal sometimes physical)

Every argument is me causing a scene , me orchestrating it, me wasting hours arguing - when it's the opposite- its him!

He escalates everything shouting and intimidating.  I'm at the end of my tether . 

We've just come back from a group holiday which he nearly didnt go on , threatening to cut his passport up and chucking the contents of his bag all over the floor minutes before we needed to leave.  He felt the holiday went well- he was moody snappy, sometimes okay , sometimes not - lying in bed til nearly 11am every day- making everyone wait for him (this is common for him he's made an art form of being 5 minutes late for everything.  Sunday night he just went on and on (drunk - he's a big drinker) so I asked him to go which he finally has.  I need a break.

I'm getting text after text blaming me or that I'm blaming him, total victim complex.  He loves emojis - I'm a clown, a rat, all my friends sit around smugly talking about him (I try not to bring him up to be honest)

Recently I've lost a lot of weight and have started putting myself first more- this has been a massive trigger for him.

I don't know what I'm looking for - other than venting , but I do have a question for anyone who knows the process in the UK , is what he describes (weekly assessments over a few weeks ) typical ?  I think they are also assessing for bipolar and other things .

Help !