First off, congrats on the upcoming wedding!

Second, your wedding day should 100% be about the bride.  It's your dream day, it's every young woman's dream day.  It's meant to feel special and because of that, pre-wedding jitters are completely normal.  You have 100 things that could go wrong and you're probably thinking about all of them.  Again, 100% normal bride-to-be behavior.

Third, look at the bold statement I quoted from you.  Would THEY be happier?  Where did I mention anyone but you in the first two points?  Truthfully, weddings are about family and a lot of your time will be absorbed greeting guests, posing for pictures, telling the same stories many times...and everyone wants to hear it from you as they congratulate you.

What you don't want to do is worry about how someone else feels with a track record of causing chaos at family events.  All the 'who said what' stuff, all the drama, none of that is about you and your wedding.  It's about your sister and mental illness instead.

Whether you're right or wrong is not the question to ask here.  It doesn't matter at all because this one day is all about you (and family, and pictures, and traditions...but stick with me, it's still all about you).  You absolutely must let this go and allow your sister to say whatever she's going to say.  If she causes problems, so be it; that's outside your control. 

And if you can't control it, then don't worry about it.  What happens will happen...no worry required.

Your only job is to be a beautiful, happy bride.  Focus on your job and let the rest fall into place.  I hope that helps!

My BPD ex and my BPD daughter did the same thing- they needed to feel it.  Yet they couldn't sometimes because they went into the situation with an agenda already made in their minds.  That's the crux of the mental illness, the disordered thinking that makes blue look like yellow with pink polka-dots.

They feel what they feel- that's real to them.  Just remember that feelings aren't facts.  If they say, "I don't want to go because nobody likes me."  Okay, that's valid because they feel rejected.  You shouldn't argue about feelings.  But at the same time, you should understand that it's the mental illness talking and the situation they perceive isn't necessarily true.  It just "feels" that way to them.

How does this help?

Don't argue about feelings.  If your partner complains that people don't like him, say that 'you hate feeling that way and it would bother you too.'  That flips things- now you're an ally instead of an enemy.  Your feelings are aligned on what he's experiencing and that makes a huge difference.

What does an ally do?  I'll talk to them and find out what's going on.  But again, now you're doing it as an ally to help him instead of an enemy that's making him even more uncomfortable.  This is how the narrative shifts over time and gets back to "us" instead of "your feelings" and "his feelings".

Make sense?

You hit the nail on the head, PeteWitsend, with him finding things to get upset about. Most of the time, I am present for the things he complains about. And, yes, my sister spoke to him. Yes, BIL said hello. Yes, my dad talked directly to him and asked questions. When he’s regulated, he’s reasonable. When he’s not, the disconnect with reality is maddening.

He’ll draw SS15 into it as well — that no one cares about him or includes him. That’s gotten a little better now that he’s older. He and the oldest three kids now have friends and acquaintances in common. When H is calm, he’s reasonable. When he’s not, nothing short of my family worshipping at SS’s altar will satisfy him.

Hi again,

I myself have an aunt who is a high-conflict person.  Since she's high functioning, I wouldn't say she has "full blown" BPD, but I suspect she has some BPD traits.  When I was young, she seemed to complain too much in my presence, for example about various physical ailments.  When I was just eight or nine, I had the sense that she was mean, hyper-critical, whiny, attention-seeking and inappropriate--let's just say she wasn't my favorite relative.  And since she's still living seventy years later, I can't help but think she was exaggerating about her (poor) health, A LOT.

Anyway, one time my aunt had a meltdown when my brother visited with her over a long weekend.  He had just gotten accepted into a college, and he decided to wear a sweatshirt from his chosen college during the visit to his aunt's home.  I think that most "normal" people would have congratulated my brother for getting into his chosen college, especially his aunt, who happened to be a teacher!  But when it comes to someone with BPD traits, I think you guys can imagine what happened.  Auntie accused her young nephew of being insulting, condescending and pretentious.  She threw a hissy fit because he dared to wear such a sweatshirt in her home.  After the visit, she sent some mean correspondence to my mother.  We were shocked that she wasn't able to be happy for someone else, not even her nephew--and that she couldn't keep the negative thoughts to herself, but rather lashed out with wild, incoherent accusations.  After the incident, she became estranged from our family, for years.  All because a highschooler wore a sweatshirt with a college insignia on it.  Geesh.  Jealous much?  I think only a BPD-twisted mind would consider such a thing as insulting and deserving of long-term estrangement.  At the time, I didn't know about BPD, but now I think it was a classic BPD response:  misplaced envy, projection of attention-seeking behavior, convoluted "victim" logic, and lashing out to ruin someone else's happy moment.

And here's the rub:  once my dad passed away, my aunt tried to reconnect with my mom.  My mom was torn up about it, because her sister had been so mean (e.g. the sweatshirt incident) and unsupportive over the years.  As an example, she was invited to my dad's Celebration of Life but made a lame excuse not to attend.  My mom and I talked it over, and I basically advised her, it's OK not to let her "back in."  Auntie had never apologized or even been nice, really.  Why rekindle old grudges?  Why invite more drama?  I think my mom appreciated that I said it was OK to prioritize her own happiness.  And so Auntie remains estranged.

A lot of you have helped me in so many ways through all this madness with my sister and her most recent blow up. I keep getting that ball of anxiety in the pit of my stomach and think about ways she will reach out, what she will say when I see her again, how she will act if i go to a family function and she is there. Will she over react? Will she yell at me? Will she get physical with me? I am unable to control these thoughts sometimes. I have been trying to keep myself very busy but mi mind is still racing at all the things. She is taking up too much head space. Then I think "what if I did something wrong, is she really that bad?" and I have to go through and think of all the things that have happened and have to sit and realize that no, it's not normal, and I didn't deserve that treatment.

But with this past experience, I thought we were good... then when it had came out that I had spoken to my niece about taking them out of the bridal party prior to talking to my sister, because we weren't sure how she would take it. I have now don't the worst thing to my sister, and that was lie by not talking to her about it prior to her daughter.

When I spoke to my niece about how I was uncomfortable with my sister being a bridesmaid she told me "aunite, all she does is talk _____ about you and your relationship and how she thinks you're not happy, so you should take us both out so she wont get hurt over leaving me in it."

So that is exactly what I did, the next day I had the conversation with both of them and how I would like my wedding to be a peaceful experience and that I was requesting they step down as my bridesmaids, i mentioned that I had 2 other girls in mind. (this apparently was not said to anyone but my mother when I am hearing this story back). My sister was unhappy that I had a talk with my niece and that I had already had 2 other girls to fill their place. What I gather from this is yes... should I have trusted my young adult niece with this, probably not, I probably should have grown a pair and just had the talk with both of them generally, I understand that probably was not my best decision. But with me having backups, and them being upset about it, saying i never said that (no you didn't hear it) and that makes me think they would be happier if I was alone up there?

Please give me some guidance and let me know if what I did was wrong or if this is an over reaction

You have a pretty established track record of him lying and being dishonest so I think your default response to anything he says should be to assume it's a lie, unless you happen to know yourself it's true, or had verified as true.  That applies double if the thing he's saying or claiming benefits him directly; you should just presume he's lying. 

It will make dealing with him easier.  I would even tell him regarding therapy that if he's not willing to share this information with you directly, by that I mean objective evidence of him attending therapy, the diagnosis and progress, then you're not going to even listen to him talk about it. 

He may claim it's private and his therapy is none of your business, but like @ForeverDad said above, he's made it your business by abusing you and claiming he's getting help for himself to justify you staying with him.  If he was honest with you and claimed he wasn't actually going, or just went for show and had no interest in working on himself, what would you do? 


The conduct you described is pretty awful, not just mental and verbal abuse, but physical abuse as well.  and the fact that you tolerated it for so long should be concerning.  That's something for you to work on for yourself, and it's good that you have others around willing to help you on this.  But you don't want to end up in another relationship like this someday, or have this one re-kindle itself... you need to understand why this went on as long as it did. 

I wish there was still an edit button.  I meant in my case, my exW did these things. 

It seems like this relates to me so much and more so futuristic of what I might have to go through. I am at the start of the no contact with my untreated bpd sister and it has been taxing. The thought of going to family functions terrifies me because I am unsure how she is going to react or if she will explode on me. She is a violent sort and it always makes me uneasy. No, she has never hurt me but she does yell and will get explosive. I understand about the parent aspect of it, my mother was in the middle as well but she knows how to stay neutral to an extent, but my sister's claws are so far into her that she is going to believe everything she says sadly. I have distanced from my mother as well. If they were to try to come after my kids I would cut them off too. The kids don't need that at all and I think you were right to be open and honest with them. Let them see and make the decision for themselves and they can stay out of the spiral before they get close to it. If you have any advice for family functions I am all ears because I have yet to cross that path...

So to take it back to the original question in the thread, I think that's the use of calling it abuse. 

That defines it as intentional: it has a purpose, and that purpose is to terrorize another person or persons.  It can be physical abuse, emotional abuse, or verbal abuse, but it's all the same in the end, and has the same end goal of wearing the person down enough that over time they submit to the abuser's demands and put their needs first.  From the standpoint of the abuser, it's even more ideal if they can submit without needing to be told; they instinctively begin to understand what's expected of them. 

the label of BPD - whether diagnosed or not - may be misleading to focus on, since the traits of BPD, can be hapless or neutral.  If you read the diagnostic criteria of it on this site (link: https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder) there's nothing there about abusing others (the word itself only appears in the context of substance abuse by the pwBPD).  A person can have irrational and/or extreme emotional reactions to events, mood swings, etc. but whether they are also be manipulative and cruel is another issue.  Whether this is a result of comorbidity with another personality disorder like NPD or ASPD, or just normal human ego and id out-of-control because of BPD, I don't know.  But I think when you're in the unenviable position of having to live with someone like this, to focus on whether they're unwell, or what's wrong with them is ultimately just an academic question, when your first priority should be responding to their behavior, addressing it, not letting it overwhelm you (and your other family and kids if you have them). 

It seems to me that as disordered as their thinking gets - and I agree they're not entirely all there when they perceive things in a way that makes them the victim somehow, and therefore justifies their rage about them - they're still overall aware of the fact that they're treating you this way and it's wrong, or unfair, or an aberration.  And the distinction I'd make is that they would not treat a stranger the same way (especially a stranger they wanted something from). 

That's why I'd make the distinction between the behavior of a schizophrenic and a BPD; I think we can excuse the former: they truly have no ability to control what they say and do.  a pwBPD does.  It's why I noticed when talking to other people she'd adopt this really fake tone and repeat platitudes she'd hear, as though like "oh, all us girls can understand how it is to have to deal with their husband and his annoying family"... but her behavior toward me and my family was absolutely uncalled for.  I would sometimes be surprised when I'd find old letters or cards they sent to her and see how unhinged her claims were that "everyone always hated her" as justifying her ongoing hostility toward them (and me when I'd defend them).

Whenever she got called out for this stuff, she'd react the same way, lies, anger, rage, etc. Or if she couldn't bully the other person, like the MC we saw for example - complete avoidance. 

She knew what she was doing; it might have been irrational, thinking she could completely control and dominate another person or persons like that, but she was still trying it.  I wouldn't say "she was unwell" because of this.  To me that excuses her behavior.