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 91 
 on: December 22, 2025, 02:23:45 PM  
Started by learning2breathe - Last post by CC43
I think my dad thinks these requests are benign. I think the rest of my family finds them annoying but also benign & they just don't want any drama. I, on the other hand, responded to my sister's message by saying that, while Dad has the prerogative to decide what his relationship with Mom looks like, we are all adults now and I think it's best we navigate our own individual relationships with her on our own terms.

My sister got a bit defensive (I wasn't debating with her, just saying how I planned to handle it) and basically said she was just relaying Dad's message. My brothers were both radio silent, which is typical.

OK, I totally get where you're coming from.  I have a fairly typical mom, but she has a habit of meddling and trying to get one of her children to do things to help prop up someone else in the family, typically the favored child at the time.  I find that habit very annoying.  IRL, a request from my mom will go something like this:  I'm worried about your brother's leaky roof while he's on vacation.  There's a storm coming up.  You need to take tomorrow off from work, drive to his house and make sure there's no leaking!  His house is going to be ruined!  I can't stop worrying until you go."  Now look, if my brother were really worried about leaking, he would have taken care of it himself, or if he needed a favor from me, he would call me.  My mother would continue her pestering:  "He can't afford to fix the roof, he's too embarrassed to call you.  Just go!"  And that's where I draw a boundary:  Mom, I love you, and I love my brother, but if he needs something, he can call me himself, OK?  (In other words, I won't be triangulated/manipulated like that.)  Sure enough he didn't call.

I highlighted above your brothers' reaction of radio silence.  Maybe, like you, they didn't want to be cajoled into managing your mom's moods or praising your mom when they felt it wasn't warranted.  They elected to stay out of it, hoping that silence is appears non-committal and non-offensive.  I think that's a very reasonable strategy.  When BPD is in the mix, sometimes I think that over-explaining is counter-productive, akin to JADE (justify, argue, defend and explain).  PwBPD have a tendency not to think about things rationally, and not to consider someone else's perspective.  Their moods are volatile no matter what you say or do.  I think you should feel confident enough to do what you think is best, and just do it, without over-explaining.  Staying out of triangulation is an example of this strategy.

Having said all that, I'm a big believer in learning as a life-long pursuit.  I think it's fantastic when people decide to go back to school or learn something new, just for the fun of it.  There are so many free and inexpensive options these days, with plenty of online classes to choose from.  Edx.org is just one example.  I happen to be learning French for free with Duolingo at the moment, for the mental stimulation and enrichment.  But I don't need praise or external motivators, because my primary motivation is learning for learning's sake.  I think if your mom were really interested in learning or taking a class, she'd figure out how to do that herself.  She could start at the local library, community center, community college, Google, podcasts or learning apps.  There are all sorts of instructional For Dummies books available; I myself have borrowed more than one from the library.  The quality is middling in my opinion, but that's an easy place to start as well.  

In reality, pwBPD tend to need constant reassurances from others.  I think they have a weak sense of self and look externally for validation.  While it might be nice to receive encouragement from her kids, I can't help but wonder if your mom has any serious intention of trying to get a degree.  She might announce her intentions just to get attention.  The pwBPD in my life does this all the time.  She'll make "announcements" about changes she wants to make, seemingly to feel a sense of purpose/identity, obtain praise and receive money and logistical support.  For her, it's the intention that matters, for example, "I'm going to volunteer in Gaza" or "I'm moving to New York."  Does she take any concrete steps to turn her intention into action?  Not that I can see.  Rather, her intention is a thinly veiled request for help.  And that's problematic, because she feels so ENTITLED.  I think she expects the universe to jump in and do all the work for her.  Thus she's bound to be constantly frustrated and disappointed when other people don't facilitate her intention, as she's not prepared to do the real work herself.  Sadly, she's all talk and no action, all wish and no work.  Does that sound familiar?

My general approach with "announcements" has been to be cautiously optimistic, along these lines:  "I can see why you want to move to New York, that sounds super."  And then silence.  No need to gush, offer help or go overboard with praise (especially for something she hasn't even done yet!).  No need for cautionary tales ("Gaza is a no-travel zone / Finding an affordable apartment in New York is extremely difficult these days.")  Why?  I think the chances are high that she doesn't do anything about it, and she'll inevitably feel like she's letting herself and you down.  If you offer advice, what she hears is pressure or condescention.  If you are cheerful, you sound insincere.  If you ask questions, you corner her, because she hasn't worked out any details yet, and she'll feel embarrassed/exposed.  In other words, if you say too much, you run the risk of "ruining" it for her.  If she offers up more information, then great, she might actually be serious.  Let her take the lead.  In other words, try to be cautious and upbeat but reserved at the same time.  You don't have to ask, "What sort of classes interest you?" because the reality is, your mom probably has no clue.  I know, it's a tightrope.  I think the more uncomfortable you are, the less you should say.  I'd advise, try to keep to topics that are superficial, like the nice weather or seasonal decorations.  Does that make sense?

 92 
 on: December 22, 2025, 01:57:40 PM  
Started by learning2breathe - Last post by zachira
It's such a long lonely road when we have an extremely disordered family member whom most of the rest of the family enables. It is especially hurtful when this family member is a parent enabling the other parent and does not put his/her children first whether they are still children or adults. I think it is natural to long for a healthy relationship with our parents, to have parents who have empathy and respect for our feelings. It is a lifelong sorrow to miss getting warm caring validation from our parents whether we are children or adults.
Both of my parents are deceased. My father enabled my mother with BPD. I often ask myself how different my life and the lives of my siblings would have been if we had been able to be validated and recognized as separate worthy people by both our parents.
It takes time and practice to set the boundaries we need with disordered family members with whom we have ongoing relationships. With my large disordered narcissistic family, I do choose at times to correct hurtful untrue statements and behaviors when I feel it necessary to protect my well being. Other times I just let things go. It is not wrong for you want to say what you feel to your family members. The hard part is they won't likely hear what you have to say as they are so enmeshed in the disordered family system. Yet, sometimes it does help to say what we feel. I find one short sentence helps and then I walk away without engaging in any kind of discussion, as I realize the family members I am saying this to will likely not hear my point of view, though sometimes I am pleasantly surprised by the few who did get at least a part of what I am saying and just do not want to be a part of any thing that would destabilize the dysfunctional family dynamics.

 93 
 on: December 22, 2025, 12:39:27 PM  
Started by campbembpd - Last post by PeteWitsend
...
NW - you’re absolute right and I fear our finances would continue to be ruined by my uBPDw. I’ve been complicit for years, she’s had no problem with not having savings, continuing to raise debt. I feel a little sick how far I allowed things to go. And you know what she said to me recently about the debt, the tens of thousands of dollars we have in debt. It’s a lot. She said we’ll just wait for mortgage interest rates to drop and then refinance the house to pull money out to pay off the debt! ...


Not only is that a bad plan generally (i.e. just endlessly accruing debt), but note that the Fed has lowered interest rates a couple times over the last year, and mortgage rates have RISEN, not fallen! 

Don't look at this as a personal failing; it's not your fault, but our financial sector is increasingly predatory, and pwBPD with their profligate spending habits and poor impulse control are just fresh meat for them.

I know how it is to have to fight not only a pwBPD, but like societal expectations as to what's "normal."  And couple that with social media, and pwBPD seeing their friends or acquaintances getting new shiny things, and this is not a battle any one person should have to fight alone.  It's like fighting a junkie looking for a quick fix. 

 94 
 on: December 22, 2025, 12:31:53 PM  
Started by BPDstinks - Last post by BPDstinks
Well....despite keeping EXTRA busy & being VERY blessed (we have another grandbaby!) I am starting to get that annual Christmas sadness; my BPD daughter never even responded to my (3rd year on (per her request) minimal contact) Thanksgiving text; I, AGAIN, wrote a Xmas card (my BPD therapist suggested a "light" message (nothing TOO mushy!) and I put one "fun" gift card (Amazon) and 1 practical gift card (grocery store); this year, I am leaving if for her, at my mother's because (so embarassing) she moved & I don't even have an address: I think it is harder this year, because I found a Christmas gift (she loves the Nutcracker) it is a Nutcracker puzzle, I bought for her, right before the "estrangement"; I keep it out EVERY year, thinking THIS will be THE year....in any case, might I ask, does anyone have a similar situation?  I will admit, it is a little easier this year, but, still makes me so sad.....I think it is just a big, fat waste of time, "we" could have together"; I am a "fixer" by nature & I, also, admit, it frustrates me, that I cannot conjure a solution

 95 
 on: December 22, 2025, 12:21:41 PM  
Started by Uddermudder123 - Last post by Uddermudder123
Update:  My stepson, whose wife has BPD, and had cut off all contact with my husband and I for just over a year (see previous posts for the whole story), responded to my husband's latest message to him (husband would reach out to him every few months to just say he hoped all was ok and that he loved him). 

He asked my husband if he wanted to meet with him the following weekend.  My husband of course yes but with caution (this had occurred another time and my stepson never followed through with the meet up). 

They finally met at a restaurant but from what husband told me, the conversation was very surface level.  My husband was very cautious in his approach, basically let his son lead the conversation for fear of his son becoming defensive if asked a few questions.  My husband did ask how this separation occurred (what was said, what was triggered, etc.) and all his son told him was that he "overheard" that my husband said some things about not being able to give his grandson the toy car gift.  My husband explained what he actually said. 

My stepson did not apologize for he and his wife cutting us off for over a year over something that was overheard.  My stepson then said that his wife things everyone hates her.  Like, huh?  what? Excuse me?  Are we supposed to feel bad for her after what happened this past year?  Deflection is what that felt like is what my husband told me.  My stepson then changed the subject and showed my husband pictures of our grandson - which was nice to see my husband said but also made him feel very sad because it showed how much we've missed out on over the past year and a bit.  My stepson also dropped on my husband that he and his are expecting their second child but for some reason it's a secret (???).  Not sure why.  She's past the cautious mark, all is ok and they know they are having another boy. He also mentioned that his wife no longer speaks to her father (again), nor her mother (whose home they are living in - she moved into an apartment) and that they only see his mother and step father occasionally.

My husband came away with mixed feelings. He was happy to finally see his son, whom he missed very much.  But he also felt like there was too much left unsaid and there was no apology or accountability for what occurred. 

My husband asked if his older daughter could reach out to him since he cut her off as well (for no reason at all).  He said yes, so they are at least communicating a little bit.

Me, I've stayed away - for now.  I may have too high of expectations - I feel like we are owed at least an apology from him.  I don't expect it from his wife.  Just a "I'm sorry for putting you guys through crap..."   

My husband's family, from aunts and uncles to his own mother and father to his ex wife, there has been so much toxicity, unhealthy relationships, abuse (especially emotional and verbal), that when I joined this family I was overwhelmed with it all.  Whereas from my husband's perspective, it was his normal.  The drama and chaos was normal to him.  It has taken him a long time to learn that all of that was and is not ok.  But unfortunately, some of that chaos and drama obviously rubbed off on his kids - how could it not?

But at least my husband can own and be accountable if he even thinks he has hurt someone in any way.  And he's Mr. No Conflict.  Doesn't want to start anything for fear of someone getting mad at him.  With me, he can vent and let out his feelings.  But with his kids especially...he's a push over.  And they know it. 

I just feel like this was such a big hurt.  That it shouldn't be swept under the rug like it never happened.  Maybe I'm expecting too much?  Because I can for sure tell you that my husband, although happy to see his son, is still very hurt and no longer trusts his son.  And that makes me sad and angry for my husband (and for me too).

 96 
 on: December 22, 2025, 11:38:48 AM  
Started by learning2breathe - Last post by Notwendy

How do I explain why it's important to me to say I'm not going to tell my mom how much I appreciate her just to prop up her self worth, when it will just be this same cycle all over again next time?

Part of my own therapy was to work at being more authentic and less of an enabler so it is a struggle when asked to do/say things that aren't true, for the purpose of emotionally caretaking someone. We feel resentment when we do that.

When my BPD mother's family would get together, they'd publically praise each other and this would include accomplishments. While most women didn't pursue work outside the home in my mother's era, as times changed some women in her family did have careers. Although BPD mother graduated from college, I think she may have felt similarly to your mother in comparison.

At a family gathering, she wanted me to stand up and give a speech about how wonderful a mother she was. I wasn't refusing to give her a compliment to help her feel good. The problem was, it wasn't true. BPD mother didn't have much interest in doing the usual motherly things. We were afraid of her behavior. I knew I couldn't say what she wanted me to say without it sounding incincere, and I didn't want to be dishonest. I didn't want to refuse her request. I was willing to say something nice in my own words. That wasn't OK with her so she didn't have me say anything. Instead, her FOO got up and praised her, which also left me looking like the mean daughter who didn't.

If I were in your situation, knowing what I know now, and also how my other family members react, I would not say anything to them. Saying anything to them about how you feel won't change the dynamics, and it makes you a Karpman triangle target. That your sister forwarded the email to you all is classic triangulation too.

Boundaries are about our actions. In some cases, stating them is a part of it but- not all. Saying what your father wants you to say may not be authentic to you- but can you find something that is?

Understandable that it may take some searching to come up with something but I think if you do, there are examples of your mother's intelligence that aren't connected to schooling. For example, my mother was an avid reader. You could combine the compliment with the class suggestion "Mom you are a great reader, I bet you'd like a literature class". Your mother may not pursue the class suggestion (and even argue it)  but she wants to know you think she's capable.

You won't fix her feelings or change the dynamics but you would get through Christmas without being the family Grinch and stay true to yourself.






 97 
 on: December 22, 2025, 10:40:52 AM  
Started by cats4justice - Last post by PeteWitsend
For BPDs, there's almost always a belief that if they just had this one thing, their life would be perfect and they wouldn't be mentally ill anymore.  But time after time, they get what they want and there's soon a new thing that they must have for life to make sense.  A new job, a new partner, a new epic vacation, a new car, the list can be endless and none of them fix the actual problem in their minds.

It's just a stopgap- everyone's happy when they get shiny new things.  But that happiness always wears off.

For your BPD partner, marriage won't fix things.  Next it will be a baby, a new home, etc.  It will make things tougher on you though because the dynamic with your kids will change, and your partner's stance will change too since you should always stand by your wife. 

My advice is not to be forced into marriage over a false promise.  Therapy, medication, and a willingness to change is what makes a difference.  Everything else is just a temporary fix.



It also seems like Non-disordered people manage the issue of marriage in a healthier way: they either accept it's not happening and live with it, or they break up and go their own way to try to find someone who wants marriage, since it's so important to them. 

However, a person with BPD would stay in the relationship, but in the sort of endless "always unhappy about something" dynamic, with a lack of marriage being just the flavor du jour.

The pwBPD's complaints about their romantic partners always beg the same question: "Why are you still here then?"  They never have a good answer.  Their relationships are so bad that they are the cause of ALL the pwBPD's problems and unhappiness, but they just can't seem to end them and move on...

 98 
 on: December 22, 2025, 10:03:19 AM  
Started by cats4justice - Last post by ForeverDad
You also mentioned that living together led to more dysfunction, and a wedding ring will not fix that.  It's very possible, probable even, that she expects that marriage will instantly fix everything (with you, with the kids, etc).  It will not.  Only working through it will make meaningful change.

An acronym commonly mentioned her is BPD "FOG" ... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.  Notice that one thing that marriage increases is the sense of commitment, or in BPD worldview, Obligation.

In a more normal relationship marriage does signify greater commitment, and as a consequence, obligation.  But the BPD traits impact the potential positive impacts.  Poor mental health - perceptions in particular - can emphasize the negatives and make matters worse.  Potentially, at least.

 99 
 on: December 22, 2025, 09:44:50 AM  
Started by learning2breathe - Last post by Notwendy
In a manner of speaking, your mother likely chose your father just for his qualities, whether they were codependence, loyalty, passivity or others.

For all you know, your mother may have had other opportunities to have other relationships but they didn't develop.  It may be that her comfort zone of behavior was familiar to her just as his comfort zone was familiar to him, and even if not, the passage of time solidified their patterns into what it is until today.

As part of learning about my family of origin dynamics, I also wanted to know more about my parents' FOOs. It's unusual that BPD would show up completely out of the blue when I began to notice it. However, her FOO would defend her so it was hard to answers. I also wondered if there was any history of abuse to her as her behavior led me to suspect it, but have no evidence of that or who might have done it.

BPD mother's dating era was more formal than it is now. The guys would pick up the girl at her home, meet the parents and then take her out on a nice date. If they were lucky, they might get a goodnight kiss but no more. BPD mother was one of the good girls.

My mother was very attractive and popular, and had her choice of who to go out with on a date. She was intelligent and had a charming social persona. So she had many opportunities.

What about my father may have predisposed him to this kind of relationship? I could find nothing about his background that could have done this. He was a genuinely nice guy, and loyal, as FD described a possible match might be. He was successful in his career. He was a good prospective suitor.

I don't know when issues showed up in their marriage. Their early years seemed fun, they went out to fun places, BPD mother could have nice things. It's possible that there was no hint of anything at the dating stage. People got married fairly quickly in their era.  As we all know though, marriage isn't all about doing fun things, kids come along, stressors like moving happens.

BPD mother was in mental health care off and on but BPD wasn't a well known disorder at the time. So when her behaviors emerged, I don't think Dad knew what was going on. I think his co-dependent and enabling behaviors evolved over time. At the heart of co-dependent behaviors is fear, and BPD mother's behaviors when she was distressed were significant enough to cause fear. He did what he thought he had to do to maintain some sense of stability.

I think at first, he did have boundaries but her reactions were extreme. It became a reinforcing pattern for both of them. He appeased her and her behaviors were less, but the appeasement reinforced her behaviors as they worked for her to have control and get her needs met. It was a difficult situation for my father- I could see that but it would also be difficult to challenge them.

One thing to keep in mind is that this pattern between your parents has been going on for decades, it's solid.

 100 
 on: December 22, 2025, 09:17:55 AM  
Started by Jack-a-Roe - Last post by Me88
Hi Jack -

I’m very sorry for what you’re going through and I’m also sorry to say, but the reality is that often we have to leave relationships with disordered partners while we still hold deep love for them.  You cannot love someone to wellness.

From what I know (which isn’t that much), the only online support group related to helping partners/former partners of people with BPD/NPD is this one.  The thing I also did that helped in my recovery was viewing a ton of You Tube videos by Dr Ramani.  She focuses largely on narcissistic behaviors, which applied to many of my ex’s traits, so her information was very helpful for me.  Each of the videos are pretty short, so I found them emotionally manageable during a very difficult period.

Journaling and “Progressive Muscle Relaxation” were also very helpful; and anything else to reduce anxiety.  I think it’s also important to remind yourself of the harm you are trying to keep yourself away from… I have a lifetime tendency to forgive and forget over and over and over… and I kept repeating to myself “I have to remember I feel like this.”  I’d say it out loud constantly every time he’d reach out or I felt a draw to respond.

I read your post about your wife’s physical abuse from August 2025.  And that is exactly what it was.  The circumstances do not matter.  Had you simply put up a hand to try and stop her and she called 911, it likely would have been you (the man) who was arrested.  And I am a very “liberal” woman saying this to you.  You have to protect yourself.

Please take care of your heart.  And speak here as often as you want or need someone to listen.

Warmly,
Gems



Dr. Ramani is very helpful, but so is David Demars (Demars Coaching) endless videos on BPD that really hit home, so specific to what we encounter with these people. I too have a problem with soft boundaries and forgiving people. Very hard habit to break.

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