Well, he left me. He was home getting ready to leave for work, which is heavy equipment/construction, but has to drive up to Northern CA for work, while his family is down south. he asked his daughter for a hug because I was getting ready to leave to take her to school. After I dropped her off, I returned home to his truck, and his belongings were gone, as well as his wall plaques. I called him, and he didn't answer, and then 20 minutes later, I got a knock at the door with divorce papers served. My life fell apart, right then and there. No one is in the home but me. just by myself with this packet of white court papers. Just 26 years gone. I know his friends from AA encouraged him to divorce me because I saw the texts, and I didn't like the looks they would give me whenever they came to our house, or when I was riding in his truck, or at a family function for anonymous attenders. I brought it up to him several times over the course of a few years. We have a 10-year-old, a home, 3 dogs, and a cat. im left picking up the pieces, taking care of the home, our child, our pets to include the dog he adopted for emotional support. while he took all the things he could fit in his truck, as well as his adventure bike. And to add insult to injury, I don't have access to any funds that we shared as a joint account. I am so angry and hurt, especially since I know that his friends think I deserve to be treated like this. They knew he was going to serve me because he filed 37 days before I was served. None of them let me know what would happen. I really feel like, because they had struggles in their own relationships, that for some reason I was seen as a way for them to get back at their female ex through me. (It's just my guess, I don't know for sure.) But, I knew when I first met, that I didn't like them, but I went against my better judgement and chose to be more supportive, even when it made my stomach ache. I  went with the belief that if I was supportive enough, he would get better. I was judged, because in the beginning, I didn't want to go to Al-Anon. Then I went to Al-Anon for a full month and every now and then afterwards. Fast forward almost 5 years, and he left me because I got tired of his behavior. I backed off from helping him because I learned I was enabling him, and implemented boundaries- And this is what I get. I'm taking care of a home and family with no money, and I'm going to school at the same time. None of this is fair, and I want to fight him and his friends. He is gone, I get crickets from his side of the family and new friends. In my head, I tried for more than 6 years toge, but I save our marria let other people intervene, other people with no professional counseling experience. I have so much to say to those individuals that I could scream. He broke up his family for nothing. His friends encouraged him to break up his family under false presumptions. My kids have come to the decision that AA did not help him; it only made it worse. There are other recovery programs out there that are better, IMHO. Every day since, I feel anger, hurt, and humiliation. I know he ran away from his family, while his so-called friends only validated him. I really don't want to give depression, BPD, and ptsd anymore credit or as excuses for what he did. All it does is make me think of all our good times. Our kids admitted that their childhood was good. I did everything I could for them, but it only started to take a turn after they became much older (senior year of high school/ adult), and shortly after he retired from the military.
After almost a week of crying and being stuck in my room watching movies, my family bugged me enough to force me up off my butt to seek legal counsel.

So, I hired an attorney who is retired military and also serves as a pro tem judge.
I'm tired of being treated like dirt!! I guess I'll suck it up and cry later after all is said and done.

Hey Mutt,

In my original post, I had in mind minor stuff related to living together. However, the concept also applies to behavior containment, like you said. Though when it's about behavior, the conversation is more subtle and usually unspoken.

In fact, we can view every interaction we have with others as a negotiation. That's what I learned from the negotiation course by Chris Voss, in which he deals with kidnappers. While a BPD relationship may not directly align with such an extreme situation, some of the concepts are applicable. After all, when angry, the person with BPD may act like a terrorist. One thing I noticed was that Chris's chances of success with the kidnappers existed only because the criminals were trapped by police and were therefore running out of options. So the criminals could do damage, but they wouldn't escape the consequences.

With my wife, I notice that while living with her, consequences were often ineffective because she would get angry and escalate the damage. But now that she lives apart and wants to restore the relationship, she finds herself running out of options. And gradually, she has been decreasing the intensity of the outbursts. That's an implicit negotiation we're doing.

By the way, when I negotiated her medication adherence, it went smoothly. As I explained the importance and gave her hope that our relationship would work, she immediately agreed.

You can't change anyone but yourself.  I tried for 31 years.  I stayed in the marriage for the kids and in my case it resulted in adult children who struggle with self regulation and relationships.  Now they are not speaking to me and my husband (covert narcissist) physically abused me.  This all within the last three months.  You have to take care of yourself first in order to have the clarity you need to be there for your children.  I carried the belief that you stay together and work things out no matter what but over the years my self worth has plummeted and I have been living with little to no joy because my partner does not have the capacity to understand how his behaviour affects others.  There is no accountability or willingness to take responsibility for his own personal growth.  The decision is ultimately yours to make.  It took me 31 years to realize that I deserve to be happy and now I may have to accept that the very reason for staying in the marriage - the kids - has earned me the loss of my daughters.  I think it's also important that your children see you thriving because they are learning what relationships are by observing their parents.  If you have your kids to yourself part of the time without your partner they will come to see that they are happier around you and you can model behaviour that teaches them healthier dynamics.  I understand how hard it is to be going through this.  You just want to protect those children so much it is breaking your heart to see them hurting. But they will be okay especially if they have one fully functioning healthy parent they will have a fighting chance .  Therapy definitely helps and get comfortable learning how to set boundaries but also be prepared for more thunder when you do.  Don't let that stop you either.  You have the knowledge and understanding now of what can happen.  Learn everything you can about personality disorders and remember to take care of your health.  Your children will need you.  You are not responsible for your wifes well being.  She is an adult with a painful and difficult disorder but she has to want to see it and heal it.  God bless and take care. 

I might be off here, so take this as just my perspective.

When I read through this, I can really relate to the exhaustion behind it. Trying to figure out how to bring things up without setting off a chain reaction is draining. Most of us here have tried some version of timing it right, softening it, waiting a day or two, picking the “least explosive” wording. That part makes sense to me.

Where I get a little cautious for myself is when things start turning into strategy and leverage. Recording agreements, negotiating meds, tying behavior to conditions - I understand why that happens. When things feel chaotic, structure feels safer. I’ve been there. But for me, once I’m at that point, it doesn’t feel like partnership anymore. It feels like containment.

I’m not saying don’t have boundaries. Boundaries matter. And stepping away when someone is dysregulated is healthy. But I’ve had to ask myself at times: am I trying to negotiate a solution, or am I trying to manage the volatility?

There’s a difference.

Sometimes the deeper question isn’t “How do I bring this up without triggering them?” but “What kind of dynamic am I actually in, and what does that mean for what’s realistically possible?”

Just my two cents. I respect the thought you’ve put into it.

Well, in my experience I can record agreements, but reneging is all too common.  Even if I show written "proof" of the agreement, they'll refuse to look at it ("I don't want to look at that" is the normal response), and if they do deign to look at it, they will rip it up.  My presentation of any proof gets weaponized, and I'm attacked for being a *itch, for daring to show papers/text/emails as evidence.

So I guess my experience with "negotiation" is to assume that reneging will happen.  In practice that means that if I make any grand gestures or investments, I have to view them as a sunk cost.  Alternatively, I might proceed in small steps, and ensure they hold up their end of the agreement before proceeding an additional step.  At this very moment I have a grumpy partner complaining that there's no food in the house, as it's his turn to go to the grocery, and he has put it off.  He doesn't want to go, and he thinks if he complains loudly enough and blames me, I'll relent and go myself.  It happens practically every time it's his turn to go to the grocery.  I'll remind him that I went last week, and he'll deny it.  Then I'll "prove" it to him, pointing out that everything we ate at dinner last night I bought at the market last week.  But proving it to him just makes him madder, because he doesn't want to do the shopping.  Same old, same old.

Hi CC43,

Thanks for your input. I see your strategy saves you from a lot of trouble, but your approach is still tiptoeing around the problem and not actually negotiating it.

I have been recalling the times in which I had successfully negotiated. Usually they happened when she really wanted something from me, and I had been making myself distant for a certain period, so she wanted closeness. Yet, I had to use lots of positive strategies to make the conversation work. But yes, I did negotiate many things over those years. My mistake was that I didn't record the agreements, so some time later she denied having agreed. Now I always record it on video. Otherwise she just says she agrees without actually planning to stick to the agreement.

Today I will negotiate her adherence to the meds. That's not the typical type of negotiation in which I get something out of it, but she does. If the meds are effective in reducing her aggressiveness for one full month, then I would negotiate about accepting her back home. And if she gets into a good mental state and fulfills my conditions, in the very end I also benefit.

Any further suggestions, someone?

Hi there,

You've come to the right place.  If you read some threads I bet you will see some familiar themes, including feeling bombarded by texts, having to provide seemingly unending financial support, and feeling exhausted and stressed out with worry, primed for the next crisis.

Would you mind sharing a few more details about your daughter?  My guess is that she's a young adult, when BPD behaviors typically start to look like dysfunction, often in the early years of college.  Many parents here say that their BPD child was difficult at a younger age, whereas others wonder, what happened to their previously sweet, sensitive and intelligent daughter?  Is your daughter living with you right now?  It sounds to me from your post that she's not.

Let me guess, she's having trouble completing studies.  She can't seem to find a job or hold one down.  And she's lost all her friends.  Her living situations look chaotic.  That would be typical for BPD.  But on the other hand, if she were able to finish a course or two, work a few days here and there at a job, and had just one friend, that would be something.  If she could live independently for a few months, that would be a great sign.  With BPD, thinking in terms of baby steps can be helpful.

Does your daughter have a diagnosis?  That would be something too.  At least you know what you're dealing with.  And if your daughter is a young adult, I think that's good news too, because she's young enough to turn her life around with therapy.

But first, you need to take care of YOU.  You're no good to your daughter if you're completely stressed out and in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  Alas, you can't "fix" your daughter.  You're not to blame for her problems, either, no matter how much she tries to convince you otherwise.  When you understand that, it's easier not to take her barrage of meanness personally.  Since your daughter's thinking is overly negative and blaming, she really needs you to be a calm and rational mom, not a stressed-out, reactive and despairing mom.  How does that sound?

Hi Gray Jay,

I can see how that sort of interaction would be really distressing.  My guess is that most of the accusations are projections.  But at the same time, I can't help but see how it looks like your wife is trying to stir up a fight.  My guess is that something else went on during the trip--maybe you "outshined" her in front of others, or you said something she took as an insult, for example.

You did what I would ordinarily do--try to reassure her of your love and commitment.  My go-to phrase is, I choose to be with you every day.  But sometimes, it looks like the imagination runs absolutely wild.  Sometimes, by "engaging" and giving attention, I think it might "validate" that the pwBPD actually has a point--rather than calming them down, engaging with the topic riles them up.  It's as if the attention is tacit confirmation of offense, that you "dignify" the argument with counter-argument!  I think if my spouse were giving me that sort of crap, ignoring my reassurance, I'd just leave the room.

Here's an example:  my spouse will do that sort of thing, try to "ruin" a nice day or evening, by accusing me of "abandoning" him or being "too nice" to other people.  He'll say it's unfair that I have a social life, that I have friends, that I give his relatives attention, etc., and it's all BALONEY.  He'll become apoplectic if I'm out "late," say until 8:30 or 9 pm one evening every other month, when he's out "late" two or three times a week.

Since it's all nonsense, I usually just let him rage by himself.  I think he knows perfectly well he's being unreasonable, going off the deep end over the equivalent of a sad old pair of underwear.  And yes, it's completely unreasonable to demand proof of purchase from years ago.  I've learned that when arguments get to "ridiculous" levels, there's no point in arguing, so I gray rock instead and slip out of the room.  If he follows me looking for a fight, I'll try it again--stay silent and slip out of the room.  If he's so enraged that he's looking for a fight, the third time, I'll say something like, "I'm not going to fight with you over old underwear," and try to leave again.  I know I'm a little cheeky when I call out the nonsense, but I think it's important, lest he thinks I'm OK with tolerating nonsense.

Then usually what I do is try to repair things the next day, when he has calmed down--usually he has by then.  I'll say, My darling, it's upsetting to me to think that you think I'm cheating on you, that I'm not paying enough attention to you.  But I love you and choose to be with you every day.  Just because I (have an old pair of underwear / get coffee with a girlfriend / come home at 8:30 pm / put on mascara) doesn't mean that I love you any less.  I support you in your life and your family so that you have a happy life, and I expect the same support from you.  If he's belligerent, then I'll say, in my most agreeable voice possible, OK then, if you want to make some changes, then I will do it, to show you my commitment to you.  But if there are changes, we BOTH make them, because we are partners.  I'm an adult, just like you, and I'm not a slave in this relationship.  If you want proof of purchase of all my clothes, then I expect the exact same from you.  If you insist I have a 6 pm curfew, then I expect the exact same for you.  If you want to take anything of mine without asking first, then I can take anything of yours without asking either.  If you insist that I make all meals at a specific time, then I insist that you're home to eat every single meal at the prescribed time.  If you insist on dictating what I wear, then I dictate what you wear too.  If I'm not allowed to look at text messages, then you aren't either.  OK then?  Will that make things better?  And that usually ends the argument, at least for the moment.

I don't know, maybe the way to convey this is I try to be firm but fair (or maybe, equally unfair).  The fair part is really important to me.  Otherwise, I'd just end up resenting my partner, constantly being restricted / controlled / surveilled and put in a position of "proving" my devotion, when it's impossible.

I am really struggling to support my daughter who bombards me with messages, discussing many situations which I try to assist with. I help her financially a lot, I try to do my best. I get accused of not understanding not validating. It’s wearing me down. I struggle with my own issues. I also have many things going on in my life. I work in a stressful environment… I don’t know where to turn anymore. I’m exhausted by it all

Hey GrayJay,

She just wants you to use the gray jay boxer shorts, not the blue. Otherwise she would think you're become the dancing blue guy of "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" by
Eiffel 65 in 1998. Just kidding...

Firstly, congratulations on more than a week of enjoyable companionship.

I don't think you made any serious mistakes, but you counter-argued and tried to defend yourself. Maybe you got upset with her because of her overreaction to the forgotten boxer shorts. That's normal. But as you defended, you invalidated her, and therefore she attacked you back, trying to instill fear of abandonment in you.

It would have been better if you had asked questions to better understand what was going through her mind. After making sure you understood her, you could have let her know you comprehended her thoughts. Next, as an attempt to help her feel better, you could have said those blue boxer shorts didn't mean anything to you, so you wouldn't mind throwing them away if that would make her feel better. Then, you could ask for a minute and grab some scissors to destroy it if she agrees (actions count more than words). If you did that with the right emotion and intention, I'm guessing she would feel touched when seeing you do that for her.