Another lesson we may face is how to handle seeking Closure of the failed relationship.  Sadly, people with BPD traits (pwBPD) seldom can grant us the Closure we may seek.  It's part of their dysfunctional perceptions and actions, reactions and overreactions.

So how to handle this?  You may have to Gift yourself Closure.  Most of us, once the relationship is undone and there are no remaining concerns such as shared children (long term custody and parenting complications), find that afterward there is no practical way to have a continuing post-relationship contact or friendship.

This was my situation as well.

I also got the sense that if BPD mother was speaking to me nicely - it was because she wanted something. I could also see that her social persona was her "masking". I don't think it's fair to someone with BPD to want them to be in their mask.  it's not the whole of who they are.  I didn't want to tolerate hurtful behavior either but the mask wasn't something I felt comfortable with.

I tried to maintain a middle of the road response with her. "Medium chill"- not reacting too much to whatever mood she was in- but trying to stay calm.

Think of it this way- if our mood is based on theirs, if when they are in a good mood- we are in one too, and then it changes when theirs changes- that's the phenomenon sometimes called "co-dependency" as our own mood is dependent on theirs.

However, each person is an individual with our own feelings- someone else's mood is theirs, ours is ours. So we don't have to be in a bad mood if they are- and vice versa.

Does it need to be done immediately? I found that stating a boundary - saying I will not do something in the future or anymore- directly to my mother was perceived by her as a personal attack. She would react intensely and become very mean and verbally attack. BPD mother did not like boundaries.

This didn't mean not having boundaries or not communcating them, but how it was done made a difference- not in her compliance with them but with my own ability to withstand her reaction and also- for her, if she wanted something, in the moment, she wanted it immediately, so doing this in the moment still caused a reaction but it wasn't something "in the future" that became a long argument over.

Boundaries are basically actions- and they can be spoken, but long discussions and reasons - that just adds to the drama. A "no" is a boundary.

Compare with the cookie example. How effective is it to say to your toddler at breakfast "I will no longer let you have cookies for dinner". He's not asking in the moment and it makes no sense to him at the time- he just thinks you are being mean.

Or- it's dinner time, he's hungry, he asks for a cookie and you say "no, dinner is in 5 minutes, and so no cookies right before dinner".  Child will still tantrum but it's in the moment that he learns.

With your son- if he's not asking for money in the moment- and you bring it up- it is sure to begin a circular argument and multiple calls trying to get you to change your mind. It's also not necessary to do this if he's not asking for money at the time.

It also depends on how he expects it. If he asks when he wants some, saying no in the moment is when to say no. If you are providing a regular amount- something he expects, like for rent, or food, I think it's fair to provide a plan for stopping some time in the future, to give him time to adjust if he's been relying on it.

The less you explain yourself, the better. He's not going to like what you say either way. An example of a regular payment "Son, your father and I can not afford to do this, and so, we will continue this for one more month, but after this we will no longer be paying $X a month. This way he has time to work more hours, adjust his budget, or whatever he chooses.

For in the moment requests- do this at the time. "Mom, I need some money for ......" Son, your father and I can not afford to do this, so no, we won't be able to".

These statements are best said using "I" sentences. Do not say "you need to budget better" or any "you" words. The bottom line is- you are retired, the money you have is for your own needs. He's going to react, say mean things, but he isn't entitled to his parents' money. Do not go into a long discussion over this.

Also, you will need to be able to manage your own feelings during his reaction. I once had to say a "no" to BPD mother - not over money, but another reason, and it was something I was nervous about, but it had to be said. I didn't intend or want to hurt her, it wasn't something I could agree to.

 I practiced saying this with a therapist. I wrote down what to say and how to say it. BPD mother responded as expected. She demanded an explanation and I began to do that, automatically. However, an explanation was not needed, she already knew why. It would only lead to a drama circular argument and her being angry. Still, it was automatic to comply with her request for that.

Then she began to argue the explanation and I caught myself in the dynamics- this is the circular argument, the JADE, the no win conversation and so stopped, " it's a no, I can't do that" - she continued to ask for an explanation, until she realized I wasn't going to go into a circular argument with her.

You might recall this story from 12 steps but it's also seen in other contexts.
https://people-shift.com/articles/an-autobiography-in-five-short-chapters-portia-nelsons-poem-about-change/

I don't know about the whole website- I just looked for the poem. In context of your situation, the "hole" isn't just about giving money- it's getting into the circular argument over it with your son, which is emotionally stressful. We get into this automatically- we don't see the hole we fell into- but we can work on seeing it, getting out of it, and then eventually doing something different. The hole is about ourselves and how we are part of the dynamic.

In my situation with my mother- it was "chaper III" I began to get into the discussion, saw what I was doing, got out of it. If you need to have the discussion with your son right away, then it needs to be done but if not, consider doing some planning with your therapist on how you can avoid your "holes" when you do.

Hi jsmom,

I honestly used to struggle with how my udd could speak to me in a nasty tone and then turn around and speak to someone else a few seconds/minutes later with a sweet caring tone without even drawing breath.

The few times that I can remember that  she has actually spoke to me nicely has actually made me more wary of what was to come. Usually it has been followed with some kind of ask, then it becomes a demand and then dysregulated behaviour when her demands have not been met, but its  not to say that your son is incapable of having a caring side to him as not all pwbpd are the same.

And, also very importantly my son has enough on his plate and he doesn't need to feel pressure he needs to meet my expectations to be loved or accepted by me.

When your son is in a good mood and mentally stable (IE- not in a good mood because they're acting manic), that's the time to talk about real-life stuff.  If he's receptive, dive a little deeper...but not too much at once.  If he's not receptive or his mood suddenly shifts, back off.  This is your best chance of having these types of conversations.

Here's the other side of the coin though.  Your son knows the burden he is on you and he carries deep, hidden shame because of it.  He tries to justify his behavior (through mental illness) by pointing out how you owe him, how you've ruined his life, etc.  A part of him belives that while a part knows it's wrong.  So if you straight up call him out on a decade of abusive behavior, he's going to shut down (from shame) and/or lash out (from mental illness/entitlement). 

Neither of those things are helpful so again, baby steps here.

Think of it this way- why would you tell your son some of these things?

If it's to help him change, there are better strategies to achieve the same results.  If it's to validate your own feelings, then you're better off doing it here, with us, where the response is predictable.  I've been in your shoes and nothing is fair about this, I 100% get it.  Your son obviously doesn't get it.  So I'd really question your motives behind these types of chats each time you feel like having a talk and remind you that less is always better.

Now, if he's using drugs and hanging out with criminals...have the talk.  There's a clear, obvious reason to do so.  But if he's entitled and lousy at returning phone calls, that can be handled a different way without directly calling him out completely.  Make sense?

Zachira,  Thanks for clarifying for me. I understand. That's my issue for sure. Even if I don't react in front of my son, I'm dancing on the inside. That's a sure set up for a let down.

Hi hopefulbpdmom
Welcome and thanks for posting. I agree with you that the younger daughter’s graduation could well be a factor in any escalating BPD symptoms. When the focus turns to another, the BPD child/adult can experience intense abandonment. When my DD was a teenager and I noticed this she said it felt like she ‘was going to die’.

The experience of having BPD is something so hard to understand. It sounds like you have developed some really good skills. It is like walking a tightrope though isn’t it. I used to think of lots of ways to help my DD – wrong! I learnt the hard way that (a) I was the target of blame and (b) my initiating anything would set off the anger.

The self of the BPD person is so fragile, it can be challenged by the slightest thing. You have probably read lots of posts here where parents are grappling with how to respond to accusations that are not true. I found the key to understanding this was in the name of the condition – borderline. Apparently it stems from a mental condition that is on the border between psychosis and neurosis (a very difficult place to be!). All you can do when DD holds a strong belief that you spanked her is to just say calmly that you don't recall that.

It sounds as though you deal with it very well. You have been able to have family holidays and work through the inevitable meltdowns that come with the BPD territory. I am wondering whether DD will go no contact or whether this is a way of turning the focus to herself at this time?

I can only say how I would cope in this situation. I think it will be different for everyone because you know your DD and family. I would de-escalate wherever I could – I wouldn’t suggest anything, rather just do what you have been doing ie validate, leave the door open etc until after the graduation. As you say you don’t know how she will go no contact etc.

How long is it to the graduation and does your younger child understand BPD at all? I am thinking I would try to help everyone else stay as relaxed as possible so you can enjoy this moment in life’s journey.

Please post again with any update – this is certainly a place where the journey with a BPD child is well understood!

A person with BPD is known for their extreme mood swings. Yes, I am sure there are some happy moments. All I am saying is do not be happier for your son than he is for himself, as this can come across as being more motivated that he is to feel better.

So, I'm gearing myself for my conversation with my son on Sunday regarding my not giving him money. Hopefully he will be available. My therapist said it's best to have this conversation in person. That can be challenging with him especially if he senses I want to "talk" with him. I've been keeping it casual.
Notwendy- I'm definitely holding onto the image of a toddler tantrum when Mom says no more cookies.
CC43- I will slow walk and be mindful of my feelings and needs.
Zachira- are you saying that a pwbpd can't express happy feelings or call and say, "just calling to say hi and see how you're doing. And when asked how they are they say they're doing great. I agree this is rare at least the great part but is it all manipulation? Do they not have the capacity to care at times  w/o strings?
 I'm truly not trying to be challenging. I really want to understand this illness.   Thank you guys