Honestly, I don't know.  I've taken several short trips with my BPD daughter and we got along well the entire time.  But that's also sort of deceptive because my kid was always happy on vacations and getting away (my ex was as well).  It's like traveling lets them get out of their own reality for a little bit and just exist.

I will say, however, that our relationships have fundamentally changed because I'm not the enemy.  I never was, of course, but they used to perceive me that way when they were disordered.  So by not fighting back, by learning to be patient and supportive, what used to ruin the week now might ruin a minute or two. 

Even when my kid completely loses it and has a full-blown meltdown towards me, she's messaging later that day or maybe the next day, acting like it didn't even happen.  Of course, I know it happened and I also know that I'm probably not going to get an apology.  She knows it too but can't admit it, so she'll usually try to do something nice for me instead.  Again, it's a fundamental change in the relationship and that changes everything else involved.  I almost never see my kid at her worst anymore and if I do, it's because she's so far gone that she needs immediate medical/psychiatric intervention.

I've thought about this so much when I first found this site and really researching BPD because when our relatives, spouses, whatever are treating us badly, we often notice that they're still kind to the neighbors, their co-workers, other family members, etc.  We know that they can become toxic to the people they're closest to because they feel like those people have turned on them.  So I figured, okay, we need to change the narrative...how do I actually show that I'm not the enemy here?

Boundaries are important on our end to protect our own mental/physical health when things are too much.  That's sort of like putting on football gear to protect you from hard hits in a football game.  It definitely helps, sure, but the real goal is not to get hit in the first place.  I think we can get so focused on boundaries that we forget the other side of the equation- how do we just stop fighting and get back to a place of laughing and having fun.

I've done that two or three times now successfully (my ex wife's brother was the third) and it certainly wasn't easy.  It is worth the fight though to just say (and keep saying) "I love you and I'm here for you.  What can I do?"

At first, you heard disordered answers because that's where all the whirlwinds come from.  You could stop doing this, you could always do that, you need this and this and this.  But that's not what this is about, those aren't the actual problems. 

The real enemy is disordered thinking and you have to get past the surface level stuff to really talk about the actual problems.  In most cases, it's not feeling loved, seen, or respected.  That's why my standard response, "I love you, I'm here for you no matter what..." sort of tackles all the BPD objections at once.  I just kept saying it, especially when things were ugly, especially when I wanted to fight back or tell them off for the ridiculous things that were being said.

I hope that helps!

As of this minute she is your ex. This was her choice so in my opinion you have every right to contact your cousin and explain the situation.

I’ve been there. My ex has lied to her friends and her boyfriend about me and a family member to justify her behaviour. As said it doesn’t end there and continues with whom ever the disordered person feels justified in singling out again.

Looking back at my relationship it both angers me and makes me ashamed how I was manipulated in this way. My dad died 10 years ago. My mum used to come round most Sundays to see us, because she was alone and needed support from loved ones. My ex would make me lock the door and pretend we were out because she didn’t want my mum disturbing her from watching crap on the tv and her drug abuse. When in the relationship you don’t see the situation with the clarity that it deserves.

Hi Pook 075,

That is so amazing that you figured out a way of talking that is really effective in keeping most conversations calm between you and your ex-wife and daughter. Kudos to you!! I am curious though - how do you think this would play out if you were still living with both of them and the pressure/expectation was naturally much higher? I guess it's impossible to really know since this isn't the current reality, but what is your guess?

Right now your spouse is convinced she is in full control of the children and parenting.  She may also be capable and willing to do anything (scary concept!) to sabotage your parenting, even file DV or child endangerment/neglect allegations against you.  However...

Though she  believes she is the sole decision maker and final authority and you have the authority of a brick... which is partially true since you both currently have equal but undefined authority as parents without any current family court orders... if you should separate and/or divorce, then the family court will become The Real Authority.

But... probably best not to share that news with her.  Why?  It's hard to say in advance what information may enable her to sabotage your future parenting options.

That said, you would be benefit greatly by confidentially and privately seeking consultations with a few experienced local family law attorneys or solicitors.  At least some of the advice you hear will help you to determine what steps you need to take to protect yourself and your parenting in future years.

Thanks from the heart for such wise words and for this addional point of view.

It's hard to get out of established, unhealthy patterns of behavior with a pwBPD, and that's what struck me, reading this.  You keep getting drawn down the path with her.

You need to realize you're alone here and behave accordingly; she's not going to consider what's best for the kids, or for you, or for all of you as a family.  She's only going to look out for herself, and even then, not consider the long term, just whatever her immediate wants of her disordered BPD mind are.

As someone who moved - partially after discussing w/BPDxw who was 100% in favor of the move - and then got divorced and stuck where I am until my kids are 18, do not move anywhere you don't want to be long term, or at least for the foreseeable future.  If she keeps persisting in this demand, you need to put a stop to that, or have the mental fortitude to avoid giving in.  Sounds like you know this, but I just wanted to reinforce it!

The last time I remember going along with something BPDxw insisted on as a couple I got burned, and I realized then I was no longer going to treat her as a co-parent, or respect her wishes or demands, and I would parent on my own, for the sake of our daughter.  It was literally my last week living with her before moving out and filing for divorce.  Ironically, BPDxw laid down that gauntlet, telling me one night that we were going to get divorced, after I drew my own line in the sand and refused to apologize for her awful behavior during a very public blow up a week before that.  We agreed we would tell our daughter in the morning about our decision.  Well, after I went to bed, she woke our daughter up in the middle of the night and told her I was "leaving her" i.e. my daughter, and said something along the lines of me not wanting to be her father anymore. 

Nice, right? 

That helped me see that I needed to cut her out of my own decision-making process, which was very clarifying and helpful.  Although I could not avoid having to co-parent with her, I would not have to include her in my decision making or my parenting time, and give her further and ongoing leverage over me, and allow her to unduly influence my daughter or her view of me.  It wasn't always easy, but it's definitely been better than it could have been, had I gone along with BPDxw.

Like you're seeing now, with the newfound affection she seems to have for you, I saw BPDxw try different "tricks" to get to me after it became clear divorce was happening: first she'd go with angry demands, then insults, then cajoling, then promises of quid-pro-quo deals that I knew better than to trust, etc. She kept trying to get me to admit I was having an affair (I was not, though she might have been), and I remember her saying something like it was better to admit to her I was having an affair for our daughter's sake, and she wouldn't use it in court.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth.  Don't even allow her to "frame" the situation or decisions you need to make.  Do what's best for you and the kids.  Trying to please a pwBPD in any way just leads you down a slippery slope.

Well, now, I agree that distancing yourself from him is the right thing to do, but is he "unwell"?  He's openly lying to your face, and has a history of lying compulsively to get his way, to avoid responsibility, and to manipulate others.  He knows what he's doing; he even ran away from one place when he wore out his welcome there.  Honestly he sounds more akin to NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) than BPD, although comorbidity of those is more likely in men, as I understand it. 

I know someone who is mentally ill; he likely has full blown paranoid schizophrenia, and this developed later in life (in his 40's).  I saw he had some professional issues, and looked him up, and was floored when I found a twitter feed where he was apparently hospitalized on a psych hold, and claiming someone was burning his hair out and skin with chemicals, and his family was barred from seeing him.  He had a couple arrests for stalking his ex-wife. 

He was clearly unwell.  He could perhaps be put on anti-psychotic drugs to curb the behavior and get him functional again.  The stalking charges were forgivable in the context; he likely didn't fully grasp what he was doing, as his mind was incapable of perceiving reality like you or I would. 

Now compare this with your ex... what's going to make him stop lying to people compulsively like that?  How would you ever know whether it was true or not? 

Looking for the good in people is widely considered a positive personal trait.  We celebrate it in others.  "I'm a glass half full person."  But when you're dealing with a pwBPD, it's toxic; it draws you right into a web of deceit and keeps you there, as they are adept at getting you to chase their "good side" by showing you their "bad side"; they draw you in deeper and deeper by holding that wonderful love and affection they showed you at first out as a "carrot" ... if you can only do or say the right thing, they'll be better and you'll live happily ever after, right?  But reality isn't like that, and you chase and chase and chase that dream, until you wise up. 


Absolutely.  Like I said, distancing yourself from people with behavioral disorders is the right thing to do, and I'm not saying otherwise.  It might be the only thing you can do, in order to avoid getting dragged down into the mud with them. 

Though a doctor can diagnose and cure most cruise ship illnesses... psychiatrists and psychologists have a much worse track record with BPD and other behavioral disorders.  They're not the same thing. 

Actually, she filled them out this time around, too. Apparently some kind of panic reaction when I told her I'd rather divorce than move with her, perhaps to feel somewhat in control. She actually sent the papers out this time and I was served later.

Good advice on seeking custody. It should be fine - locally the default is equally shared custody, barring seriously unfit parents.


If you mean the how, in our case it was actually IVF. Our children are not from my wife's eggs. Might turn out to be relevant for the children since there's a genetic component to BPD.

Oh yes, for me at the very least, and hopefully through me also for the children. I've been afraid for so long and been kept captive by it. Lots of my fears are justified and we'll see how bad things will get... But being ruled by fear is no way to live.

Thanks. I really hope this will work out for me and the children. And for my wife, too, but that's not up to me and not my reponsibility.


She finally understood today she won't turn my head. Still in the morning it was "she loves me" and caressing me, but now "she's never hated another person like she hates me".

I try not to jump to conclusions or be provoked, but so far the things she's said are pointing to a bad divorce.
 - She's told me she'll fight me to the day she'll die to prevent me from sharing custody.
 - She has been trying to bait me in front of the children with veiled barbs - talking about how horrible and mentally unwell are people who have

• as hobby (like I do), telling my child "oh, your father probably did that quite badly, he's not good at practical things". She did get a reaction from me telling me how she's going to tell the children all the details of how I'm at fault for the divorce, and also write a post humous letters for them explaining my wrong deeds "because she won't lie and the children deserve the truth".

- She told our older son about separation while I was out with the younger. I have no idea how she worded it and what damage she might have done - when I tried to remind her there are better and worse ways for the children to talk about such things, she told me she's done it in a way that's good for "her and the children".
 - At the dinner table she told the children that now with the divorce, they are eventually going to get a new dad. He's going to be quite different from the "current dad" in that he won't hurt people and he would never leave his family.

So this is the stuff from today. I try to a) keep in mind that this is the very initial reaction and things might change as long as I don't respond poorly and b) she has had the tendency to stick to her initial reaction, so thing probably are going to be quite nasty.

When any relationship falls apart, it's normal to look back and try to figure out what happened, what could have happened differently, and how we grow from the experience.  So it's good that you're doing that.

But at the same time, being in a BPD relationship is not like regular dating.  At first, it's magical and everything is perfect...because the BPD will like whatever you like, go wherever you want to go, eat whatever you want to eat, etc.  It's a tactic called mirroring so they seem like the perfect match- because on paper they are.  They don't even realize they're doing it.

As the relationship progresses though, red flags become apparent. Nothing too drastic, nothing too alarming, but little by little there are minor annoyances that seem to build over time.  It's easy to miss them or think the other person is just having a bad day, because we're already invested and committed.

Yet as time rolls along, we think everything is good while the BPD is derailing internally.

So as you're examining this relationship, you're looking for signs and signals that you never before knew existed.  It's like being asked to teach a calculus class even though you've never studied calculus.  There was so much going on that you couldn't possibly understand or predict, so now you're "self reflecting" and wondering how things went the way they went, or why you allowed it to go on for so long.

The answer is mental illness...and that's the only answer that completely fits everything.  He was mentally ill and did a pretty good job of hiding it for quite some time.

Give yourself some grace.  The sooner you stop trying to solve the "why" of all this, the sooner you can actually begin healing and releasing all those tough memories.  We all obsessed at first, and ultimately we all regretted it when we finally started to figure out the final answer.  They were sick and made bad choices because of it.  That's all there is.

You could say that you should have known, should have reacted differently...we all thought the exact same thing.  Yet here we are on the other side of it, still talking about it all this time later.  The truth is that it just wasn't our fault, we did the best we could and we believed that love can conquer all.  And there's nothing wrong with thinking that or feeling that way.  In many cases, it's true.  It just can't conquer mental illness.

This really wasn't your fault and I'm sure that you did your best.  Don't beat yourself up over that.

I think for future relationships, this will be something I am much more careful about. If I ask for X, and you promise X, and X is not fulfilled - I don't want to allow this to be papered over by a partner saying, 'but actually, I did Y!' 'Fidelity' often has a sexual connotation, but it also means sticking to one's word - being accountable to one's word - in future, this must not be something I let slide.

I have signed up for a first free appointment with a counsellor, so we'll see.

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I agree. I think fidelity is connected to integrity. A consequence of infidelity is broken trust, but it's not the only thing that can damage trust.

I also understand the empty feeling when someone agrees to do X and doesn't do it, and you ask about it and they reply "but I did Y". It's invalidating. Y doesn't  replace X or the loss of reliability if someone doesn't follow through with what they say.

People aren't perfect. It's possible that if someone asks another person to do X, and something comes up, or they forget (innocently) but they will still be accountable and be able to say something about it. Also frequency. If it's not a frequent event, that can be understandable. If it is so often that they are unreliable, it can be hard to trust them.

It doesn't mean that every unreliable person has a disorder, but being reliable can be on your choice list for what you want in a future partner.

Fidelity- in the broader sense- integrity, is an important value for me in any relationship- family, work, friendship. Being able to take accountability is a part of that.

I think counseling will help you to work out FOO dynamics. It has helped me.