Hey there and

So many of us here can relate to that sense of questioning reality when there's a pwBPD in our lives. What you're saying makes sense -- the facts might not be in dispute, yet we're left holding on to ... nothing, somehow, or a lot of doubts boomeranged back on to ourselves. Not easy stuff... And exhausting, too.

Sorry if I missed this -- are you two officially "broken up" right now? If so, do you want that to be permanent, or are you wanting to reconnect, or...? No right or wrong answer, just getting a sense of where the relationship is at.

Was your relationship pretty intense and did your lives kind of revolve around each other? Again, trying to get a sense of where you've been emotionally.

What kind of outside support and perspective do you have at the moment? Friends, family, therapist, clergy, coworkers, hobby...

I found that even though I'm not the one with BPD, I needed a significant amount of support to navigate having a pwBPD in my life.

You found a good group ... Looking forward to hearing more of your story.

Hi and welcome to the group -- you found people who will really understand the confusion of a BPD relationship. "The words sound so good, so why am I so confused and feeling like I did something wrong?" You're definitely not alone in that.

Am I tracking with you that you initiated the breakup, after a big crisis? What was the crisis?

Is she attempting to reconnect with you at all? Would you even want to reconnect if she tried?

Has she tried to contact your gym, or people from your gym, yet?

The paranoia and exhaustion make sense. While the pwBPD in my life isn't a partner or ex, it is my husband's kids' mom, and she married someone with uNPD, so I really understand the "paranoid" sense of "what are they up to now".

I'm also curious what the rest of your support system (besides us!) looks like right now. Loyal friends? Family? Therapist/counselor?

Feel free to keep sharing ... We'll be here.

What exact technique is bad, and what is the alternative?

Do you mean the strategy of preemptively controlling your words, tone, and body language to avoid triggering a dysregulated reaction, essentially trying to “manage” the other person’s abandonment/rejection sensitivity by acting extra careful?

Is the alternative to control our feelings and not feel anything negative towards the pwBPD and focus on helping them out, making them feel heard, and so on?

I doubt my ex would try to come back anyway, it’s just something my youngest son said the other day. She was supposed to go away with her boyfriend but apparently he couldn’t go so she asked our son to go. He said the reason given was the puppies they have got, and said she didn’t want his son looking after them. My son pointed out that before we split up and for  a while after, she would get his son to come round and look after them while we were at work, and that excuse didn’t make sense, and believes his mum and her boyfriend are not getting on too well.

I spoke with my eldest earlier today, and he said the reason she gave for leaving me for the boyfriend was apparently because he could look after her financially better than I could. He also said she would make a mess up and say it doesn’t matter he will pay for that. So pretty toxic relationship.

Hi there,

Well it sounds to me like you know what's going on with your man.  Like you wrote, you've been taking care of yourself more lately, which seems to have provoked increasingly toxic behavior.  Indeed he's having "adult tantrums," shouting and saying mean things with an adult's vocabulary (calling you a c*** instead of a poo-poo face).  If you substituted c*** with poo-poo face, maybe you'd see how childish he's being, and you wouldn't take his insults to heart.  It sounds to me like he's projecting--saying you're the one creating a scene, when it's really him (and he knows it).  Look, if all your man can come up with is to call you a c***, then he's not very creative, or you're so nice to him he can't come up with any insults that really sting!  It's almost confirmation that it's 100% his problem.  Granted, I bet he wants 100% of your attention, 100% of the time, and the fact that you're showing a little independence and taking care of yourself is "triggering" him.  But let's face it, being a full-time indentured servant is not healthy for anyone.  I think he should be more supportive of your self-care efforts.

Earlier today I posted a reply on the son/daughter section about how pwBPD seem especially triggered at holidays.  It's as if they can't stand seeing other people be joyful and provide cheerful updates, because they themselves feel so miserable.  It's like a little kid who screams at his friend's birthday party, it's my birthday next month.  He just can't bear not being the center of attention at all times, and instead of enjoying the celebration in honor of somebody else, he makes a scene to spoil it.  I call that "spoiling" behavior, and unfortunately I've had to endure it countless times with the pwBPD in my life.

I've had so many holidays and vacations ruined by the pwBPD in my life that I've vowed not to allow that to happen anymore.  In practice, what that means is (i) not relying on her participation for the event to happen and (ii) if she throws a fit, I let her have one, but I don't cancel plans because of her.  Maybe what you could do is to travel to events separately, so that you're not reliant on your husband for transportation or for arriving on time.  He can arrive late (or not at all), or leave early, it's his choice.  And you can go at your leisure, without worrying that he'll make YOU late.

I'd say, if your husband sends you mean texts, delete them like spam, because they are spam.  If you reply, you're dignifying his text with a response, and "rewarding" it with your attention.  I'd say, not responding is generally better.

I understand he can be mean, a real bully.  My guess is he is extremely insecure, maybe even jealous of you.  One way to counteract this is to try to be reassuring when he's not in a bad mood.  One phrase I use is, "I choose to be with you every day."  And then I throw on the praise when my man is being nice--bringing me coffee, taking out the trash, giving me a hug.  It's not hard for me to do that because I do appreciate the nice things he does for me.  Similarly, when he engages in self-care, I lay on the praise:  I'm glad you're seeing the doctor for a check up, I'm glad you're going to the gym, I'm glad you're taking good care of yourself.  Then when I perform acts of self-care and he starts to complain or push back, I say (firmly and just one time), I support you when you take care of yourself, and I expect the same from you (end of discussion).

Hi sm1981 ,

No, the BPD assessment does not take weeks. It is done in a single session. The therapist should already know the patient well before doing this, but the actual assessment is done based on a series of questions that the patient and therapist answer together, and it doesn't take too long. Are you sure he is going to where he says he is going?

The pwBPD will only get diagnosed if they ever find a therapist with whom they feel safe and not criticized, and that's what DBT is designed to do.

Do you know for certain why you are still in this relationship? Is it because the good moments were very good and you wished they would happen more often? Is it an emotional necessity of yours to have those good moments?

Do you want to divorce but find obstacles? Or do you want to fix the relationship? Have you considered LAT (living apart together)?

Hi used2baShyFilly ,

Are you able to set boundaries? While living with my wife, I wasn't. Because the house is small, we don't have an extra bed, and I work from home. So she could keep harassing me all day if she wasn't happy with something. Because boundaries must be enforceable, but I could not enforce anything while living together.

The fact that you have succeeded with some types of counseling is quite surprising. Usually, couples therapy does not work when one of the partners has BPD, so they have to go through individual therapy, but it must be specialized.

My wife has been to different therapists, but it didn't last much. Recently I asked her if it was because she felt criticized. In response, she remained silent and just shook her head, but I noticed she was angry and felt like crying but tried to conceal it. It seems like she was holding deep shame. This is why pwBPD need specialized therapy, such as DBT, which doesn't make them feel like "an all-wrong person." You can understand this better from the words of Marsha Linehan, who created it: https://youtu.be/bULL3sSc_-I

Yes, talking to our partner won't be enough to make them change at all, because this has roots in their biology, but change is possible with specific treatments. So I still have hopes for the future.

Hi mom,

You've come to the right place.  Many parents here are desperate and exhausted from years of tension, high conflict and familial dysfunction.  You've had it rough, with a child with serious illness, another with BPD and now your husband's medical crisis.  It's logical that you're operating in crisis mode.

The way I see things though, your daughters seem to be doing OK, relatively speaking.  They're out of the house and making some sort of adult life for themselves, right?  Maybe if they're not on top of each other all the time in your home, you can enjoy some relative peace.

Though your husband is ill right now, I can see that your daughter has taken issue by being asked to help out.  She has herself and own husband to take care of.  If she has BPD, then I imagine that her own problems seem overwhelming enough as it is, and adding your issues on top makes her have a meltdown.  Now, she shouldn't have lashed out at you, but I imagine that the request seemed over-the-top to her, maybe that you were trying to "guilt" her into helping, and that you seemed too needy.  In her mind, you're the mom, you're supposed to help her, not the other way around.  She only thinks about her needs, not yours.  Then stating that you're not hosting Christmas (which seems completely fair given illness, your other daughter's hostile behavior and your fragile mental state), your daughter probably thinks that you're "abandoning" her on yet another level.  However I think she should take that news in stride--she's 29, she could be hosting her own Christmas with her husband and creating her own holiday traditions.  Alas, on top of distress intolerance, she's intolerant of changes, while she maintains extremely high expectations of others.  I think she needs lots and lots of patience to adjust to changes.  Does that sound about right?

I know you are hurt because your daughter told your husband she was pregnant and not you.  I can see how that might sting.  But the reality is, you know the news, and you should be joyful, not sour because you weren't told "first" or in the way you would have liked.  I'd say, just be happy about the news, and not worry about the way you found out about it.  There is absolutely nothing stopping you from celebrating your daughter's news.  Even if she won't talk to you right now, you could still send her a congratulatory message (just please don't make it sound needy or angry).  Look, sometimes with adult children with BPD, patience is the key.  Your daughter might not want to celebrate with you right now.  I'd say, just be patient and wait until she's ready.  Then you can "shower" her with joy.  I think it shouldn't matter WHEN that happens.  Just try to be patient and wait.  I wouldn't hold it over her head, or do anything that seems needy or like a bribe ("I have some baby gifts for you if you'll come get them.").  What I do is "park" the joy/festivity/gifts and wait, patiently, for the moment when she's ready.

Look, I think you've been hit by a double whammy.  On the one hand, you have the holidays, and on the other, you have a major illness in the family.  I've found that both the holidays and illness are gigantic triggers for pwBPD.  I've written about that theory elsewhere on these boards.  I think holidays are triggering because pwBPD can't stand to see others be happy and getting attention/gifts, when they themselves feel so morose and unlikeable.  Being amidst joy basically reminds them that they're miserable, and they feel extraordinarily jealous of others.  Similarly, any illness or death in the family can be a major trigger, because attention is temporarily diverted away from them.  Any threat that your attention is elsewhere, and they have meltdown, in an attempt to reclaim the center of attention.  They can't stand (or understand) that you have some extra needs right now, and if you take time or resources to tend to your own needs, they feel "abandoned."  Does that make sense?

I guess I'd have some advice for you to consider.  First, I'd prioritize self-care.  You're not thinking straight if you're having heart  palpitations.  I think you should relieve yourself of some of that emotional burden and focus on getting your husband stabilized.  If you need some time for yourself, take it.  If you need more sleep, put yourself to bed early.  If you need to hire some help and can afford it, I'd say, do it.  Maybe that looks like hiring some home nurse care or house cleaners.  Maybe it looks like cutting some corners, like buying semi-prepared meals or using paper plates.  Maybe it means you cut back on hosting events at holidays--or maybe you still "host" but outsource meal preparation by ordering from/going to a restaurant?  I do NOT recommend that you make any announcements here:  "I'm not hosting guests anymore because I'm overwhelmed by stress;" and don't make your changing plans sound like a "punishment."  I think you just decline to do some things, and only if people ask, just say, "We're simplifying things for the time being because my husband is ill."  I think everyone should understand, and if they don't, then that's on them.

Finally I'll wrap up with the observation that your BPD daughter is still in touch because she's talking with her dad.  I think that's great.  You can keep tabs on her that way.  My guess is that she alternates between disliking you and her dad (who you say was tough on her as a kid).  That's classic BPD, painting people all white or all black, back and forth, back and forth, push pull, push pull.  I know it hurts not to be talking with her right now, but my guess is that it's only temporary.  She still needs you desperately, and my bet is she'll be back talking with you when she's ready.  Just try to be patient and not take things so personally, OK?

Hi SuperDaddy,

I've been a stay at  home mom since our first child was born 38 years ago.  My husband retired 5 years ago but works part time with various hours.  I like being home alone better than with him, so I understand the part about not being able to live together.  It seems most things we try to do together end up in a fight due to his temper flaring. 

We/he/me ;) have/has done counseling, secular and bible based.  Some has helped, some hasn't.  He won't go to long term counseling just for himself and do any digging to understand his thinking or responses but occasionally acknowledges things he does and says are not right.  We spend every morning watching a sermon which seems to be slowly helping. 

Christian counseling has helped me let go of bitterness and accept that people won't change no matter how hard I try to make them understand something.

I haven't given up and I'm in a good place emotionally right now as I've gotten a better understanding of what is going on.  My biggest challenge is balancing everything, being true to me, setting boundaries, detaching as needed for my health. 

Think about it this way.  You have a rough conversation with someone and you know they're due home in an hour.  So you're stressed, waiting for the fallout, and when they enter the door, your body language is already saying everything that your mind feels.

The BPD person walking in the door is looking for clues towards rejection or abandonment, and your body language tells them you'd rather be anywhere but there.  So no matter what you say, it's a losing battle from the very start.

I was guilty of this so many times with my BPD daughter since every interaction was potentially explosive.  This is literally walking on eggshells and it's why that's such a bad technique for dealing with mental illness.