Congrats on the birth of your grandson. He sounds perfect and adorable.

I'm really sorry your ex tripped out in public embarrassing herself and your family. I'm very sorry your sons had to witness her meltdown at the worst possible time. I have had a few pwBPD in my life and they have never thought twice about throwing me under the bus. I have never gotten used to their lack of conscience and self centeredness either.

I'm glad your ex SIL has seen your ex as she really is. It may be temporary. She has surely seen her sister's disordered behavior in the past. She didn't acknowledge it then. She may have acknowledged it now to not add to your distress or prevent more embarassment to her and her dad.

Once this blows over, she may return to being an enabler since that was her role in her FOO.  My late dBPD mother would spend days on end verbally attacking me and screaming when I was an minor living at home. One time she went off the deep end and started pushing me out of the blue. I think it was a psychotic episode.  My enabler  dad told her to stop and actually comforted me and protected me. I thought things would now change for the better for me.  I don't know if he was just de-escalating her behavior at the moment never intending to stand up to her permanently or if he wanted true change and was afraid to go forward with it, but he went back to enabling her and ignoring me.  I was bitterly disappointed.

What do you plan to do now that your grandson is here. Can you protect yourself from her outbursts and drug problems? What about your sons?

I often think my late dBPD mother was on the spectrum, due to her discomfort and awkwardness in social settings.  She did not do charming. 



I'm guessing body language or demeanor indicates a person can be extremely exciting, challenging or dramatic and that can be incredibly attractive on a subconscious level.

As I said above my mother was neither charming nor sociable. She was dramatic and an expert at intense temper tantrums for no discernible reason.   She was very pretty and people paid attention to her even in her late 80s. The weird thing is I look like her and when with her, she was the one who got all the attention. And I was the younger version of her!

A former college roommate of mine was gorgeous. She had the same experience.

Her mother visited once and my roommate told me her mom would get all the attention when they went out. At the time, I thought her mom was old and not that attractive. (Sorry, I was 21 then.) I could not understand it.

She told me her mom was a bit strong-willed and difficult. I don't know if she had a personality disorder or not. My roommate was low key and introverted. She was normal.

The even weirder thing is my college roommate became an actress after graduation and was cast as one of the hot and pretty girls in a popular Hollywood movie in the 80s.  She's had medium to small roles in TV and film during her career and is not famous.   She’s  not anyone you would know.

She was a Hollywood-approved hot girl and men still chose her 50-year-old mom over her.  There’s something else going on besides physical hotness,

I think those with FOO issues may miss early red flags or explain them away.   I know people with  personality disorders may hide their worst traits until after marriage, an extended lovebombing so to speak. They learned which traits caused friends and partners to dump them in the past and adjusted their behavior to get what they wanted.

My late ex-h did that. There were a few red flags which I dismissed (big mistake) when we were engaged because he was such a sweetie. He was the perfect fiance. We were engaged for three years. He did a 180 and was abusive and scary during the marriage. I felt duped.

Welcome back, though of course we wish your return was signaling a more joyful note.  But you do have a hint that you've taken reality in hand and are overall in a better place than before.


I doubt your ex is truly happy, well, not in a healthy way.  As for her feeling no guilt, that's probably due to her warped (disordered) thinking and perspective.  Members here often speak of the Karpman Drama Triangle.  Your ex probably embraces the Victim label, you as the Persecutor and her new guy as one of her Rescuers.

Can you share how your court ordered parenting schedule is split, percentwise?  We encourage our members, as the more reasonably normal parent, to seek as much parenting authority and time as possible.  Here is one of my past posts...


Likely your children would benefit from counseling, just as you benefited.  (Your ex might oppose that, but court would likely side with you.  As my lawyer told me years ago, "Courts love counseling.")  Your example - and the input of counselors too - will help the children to be balanced in their selection of mentally healthy relationships in their own lives as adults.

I have posted here a few times over the years. I've left and went back to the relationship multiple times so this seems familiar. I understand logically that leaving was best for my kids and for myself but its hard to get over the sudden change. I am used to constantly de-escalating her mood swings or trying to keep her from lashing out at the kids so now with all of this free time I dont even know what to do with myself. I have been trying to oversaturate myself at work to stay busy but I am getting burnt out.

The last 2 years with my ex have been terrible. She choked me 3 or 4 times over the last 2 years, beat herself up and threatened to call police to say I did it, threatens to kill herself over relatively small inconveniences, and yells and says awful things to the kids.

I tried to leave before and she hid my keys, wallet, and physically held onto me to prevent me from leaving. I was able to get my dads help to get myself and the kids out without her going too far overboard.

Once I left, she tried to get me to come back by saying that she will get a job (money was never the deciding factor in my leaving) and she said she got terribly sick and wanted me to take care of her. She never acknowledged anything that she did wrong and frames it as if I am just abandoning her "for no reason". 

From a distance she can make herself look perfect, and most people around her fall for that, I certainly did a few times. I have not been perfect but would never put her and the kids through the things she has put us through.

I know things are better without her and it will take time for this attachment to fade, when I left initially I was excited for her to find a new boyfriend and move on but I am starting to feel weird about it. Why does she get to easily just be happy and feel no guilt about what she has done? I feel tremendous guilt for leaving, but my kids reassure me a lot that I did the right thing. They do not want to talk to her at all and they avoid her phone calls and my older daughter even blocked her. When we went back my daughter told me that her mom "did not change" and she was right. After the kids saw me get strangled she jokingly said "I told you so".

Typing these things out does help sometimes, reviewing notes I have taken and even recordings of her outbursts. Its just been a difficult day for me with these thoughts so I am venting on this forum.

Thanks to anyone reading, this forum has helped me a lot in the past.

Links to previous posts below for more context
First post https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357510
Second post https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357620.0
Third post https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357862.msg13210462#msg13210462
Fourth post https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=358853.msg13217681#msg13217681
Fifth post https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=358853.msg13217681#msg13217681

We kids saw that some men seemed to be spellbound by BPD mother. Even some men who weren't romantically involved with her. My father seemed to be, but also some family friends and even relatives.  BPD mother had an emotional need to have people "do things for her" - run errands, household tasks, and if someone did something for her she'd be so appreciative and attentive to them, they'd feel special.

I think in a way, all romantic relationships have an initial "intensity" to it and everyone likes to feel special and loved. I think it's possible for someone to be attracted to a pwBPD and not be aware of issues, and then when the BPD behaviors are seen, be confused by them. Some may end the relationship at this point and some may not.  It may be that there are other factors that keep the relationship going with some people.

CC43, this sounds right to me. I think BPD people can be attractive to those who struggle to tell the difference between intensity and genuine intimacy, perhaps due to FOO issues. And to people who have an unmet need to feel special, unique, or chosen - maybe because they feel deprioritised or unvalued in other parts of their lives and intimate relationships.



Pook and NotWendy, you've described the situation with my father exactly. There was a passivity and defeatism that crept in. 'Well, she's just like that.' So being accommodating, gentle or conflict averse can also preserve the BPD relationship.

That fits my BPD mother. She had a sort of magnetism, and she was very pretty, not in the "hot sexy" way, but the sophisticated beauty way. She didn't dress provocatively but elegantly.

I know a young woman, a friend's daughter, who also has BPD and this element to her. I also know of another young woman with BPD who doesn't have that. So I don't think it's all pwBPD but I have seen these two combined.

It's part looks but it's also something else.

I noticed a similar situation with my parents. I didn't understand all that was going on as I was a child but when I was about 9 years old, they had big arguments.  Dad was already doing a lot of parenting.

By my teens, these episodes seemed to be lesser, but my father also seemed to be resigned to just doing whatever BPD mother wanted him to do. He also seemed less engaged- in general.

I don't think he had any idea BPD mother was mentally ill in their early years of being together. I think he must have known later but he didn't mention BPD.

Not knowing why one would give up their values, as Pook said- I don't know either but I think maybe the constant stress, walking on eggshells, to give in also results in momentary- even if temporary, relief and that may be all one can manage in the moment.

 

I’ve written on here about the behaviour of my ex, the drug use and the situation where she ran off with the guy selling her drugs.

I am, or was at the point now where I don’t care what she does, it’s her life she is entitled to mess it up however she wants. I’ve also written recently on a thread about the consequences of her actions that are coming back to bite her.

However, this weekend she has crossed the line.
We all live in the same village. I live one side with our youngest son, he is 22. She lives at the north end of the village with her bf and two of his kids. My eldest son (27) lives on the eastern side of the village with his girlfriend, and my ex’s sister lives 3 doors up from my son.

On Friday my eldest and his girlfriend went into hospital to be induced and give birth to their first child, my ex and I’s first grandchild. He has a dog so asked his brother if he would stay at his place while they were at the hospital. On Saturday night/Sunday morning at 2:30am I was in bed and the phone rang. Expecting it to be about the baby, it was in fact my youngest son ringing me in tears and quite distressed.

He told me his mum had asked him to go and get some drugs for a friend and had a go at him about drinking and driving. While on the phone he said she had just turned up round there so I got in the car and went to have it out with her about asking our son to go get class A drugs as that is crossing the line. She wasn’t there. I sent her some angry texts. The next morning she responded denying any of it and putting all sorts of blame on my son. I went round to speak to him, he was at his aunties house 3 doors up. I could see he was still tearful and upset.

My sister in law explained the situation. Her sister and boyfriend had turned up at 2am absolutely off their heads on whatever it was they had been taking, asking for a key to let our sons dog out. My son arrived as he said he was going to at 2am and his mum started screaming and shouting at him, accusing him of drink driving although my sister in law said he was sober. They had also been talking to my sister in law like trash as well.

I’d messaged my father in law that morning as I was livid, explaining what his daughter had asked our son to do. This was met with a what do you want me to do about it she is an adult response. I explained that he is the only person she actually respects, the only person she has never devalued and that it was him that told her it doesn’t matter who she is with as long as she is happy, while not knowing the guy she is with has been a coke addict for over 30 years and was in fact selling it to my wife every week for over 3 years, and that involving our son crossed the line and the shame from her father might put a stop to it.

That afternoon when I left my sister in laws and went home, my son rang me again saying his mum had rang him screaming and shouting at him for telling people what she had done. I messaged her saying don’t you dare shout at our son for your mess of a life. She then rang him back apologising, but the apology was sorry but I thought we had a different relationship, to which he replied he wants her to be his mum and was shocked and disappointed she had asked him to go and get drugs, so no real remorse or belief that what she had done was wrong.

So there we are. The weekend that was supposed to be filled with joy and happiness, welcoming our grandson into the world, and she makes it toxic and puts a dark cloud over it all. The one thing to come out of this is that she has now shown her true colours and I no longer feel like a voice that no one can hear. I’ve explained over and over to her sister how toxic she is and now she has shown it, she has proved the drug use, she has shown that she doesn’t care and is capable of throwing her own son under a bus, and both her and her boyfriend have displayed the behaviour that is as toxic as I’ve said it is all along.

Hi Heartbrokengma,

I suspect my daughter has bpd and have been I estranged from my eldest gc for for 5years. The youngest  has been born during this estrangement and we have never met. I cant even be sure if my eldest grandchildren will have any memory of me since the estrangement began as they were still pretty young at the time.

As maternal gm my udd has always made it very difficult to maintain a relationship with my gc and I was cut off many times before this final time. Since becoming a gm  I experienced control and entitlement issues( turning up on my doorstep, or  wanting to drop them off and pick them up when she wanted to), jealousy,( her own abandonment issues) manipulation(faking illness's) and paranoia(Grilling gc after each visit)from udd.

I think that your son is really in a difficult position and any communication with you will be seen as a betrayal by his wife and even worse still if he even tries to facilitate anything between the two of you. I used to feel so sad for my Gc during the estrangements because they were so young and it would upset them so much but it never seemed to bother my udd at all. Family and friends would try to convince her to let me see my gc again but it just made her dig her heels in more than ever.

I think what you can do for now is to have some boundaries with your DIL and only accept what is comfortable for you to do.. Being expected to jump through hoops  in the hope of seeing your gc is not acceptable or sustainable behaviour and you do not have to do it and you should make this known to her.

One of my biggest boundaries with my udd was around timekeeping because she would purposely bring them late or pick them up late without a call to say she would be running late. I know she knew that this stressed me out because I like to be punctual and expect the same from others so I told her that it she was more than x minutes late without a phone call I would not be having them and she knew that I meant it and it work because afterall I was doing her a favour by giving her some time to herself and not the other way round.