Yes, take what you learned when considering a future relationship, and even in other relationships. Someone's behavior can be hurtful, no matter what their motive is. We don't have to normalize it. We can choose the qualities in someone we consider getting closer to. Nobody is perfect but we can look for communication skills, the ability to be accountable, and how they respond to conflict. Most people can be on their best behavior when first meeting someone. It's when the relationship progresses that we learn more about them.

It's not only in romantic relationships. There are disordered people in the workplace, in friend groups, and families. We can pay attention to our own feelings. Are we anxious around them? Walking on eggshells? Frequently sad? Some forms of relationships are unavoidable- like someone we have to work with, or a relative, so we have to learn to have boundaries with them and still have a cordial relationship to the extent possible. However, for someone who is single as you are, you can be discerning about who to become romantically involved with- next time there's a possibility. Your ex is in the past, so what you have learned could be valuable to you.

Maxsterling, I think you're really onto something. You've described a phenomenon that I have noticed, but couldn't really capture in words. The idea that people with BPD seem to have a different internal motivation system than non-disordered adults, and don't seem to change one way or the other regardless of what you do. This is exactly what I have been grappling with, and it is something I can't seem to wrap my head around or come to terms with, no matter how hard I try.

I've been married to my BPD husband now for almost 5 years. The first year or two were spent trying to figure out what in the world was wrong with him, and also engaging in the constant cycle of calm, losing it, apology etc. When he would have a tantrum and become completely illogical, I would respond in the only way I knew how at that time. I would argue back and try to show him the logic - I rarely raised my voice the way he did  - that's just not something in me to do. But I was very engaged in the argument and responding back.  In the past three years, I came to understand a lot more about his mental health issue and moved towards much stronger boundaries. For myself, not for him. I moved out of the house and went to live with my parents with our young children. I stopped engaging in the chaos - removed myself every single time he escalated and stopped trying to argue with his lack of logic. I also tried being encouraging and loving when he is calm and spending quality time together as a family.

In the past five months, after a big blow up, I decided to try a new strategy - an "experiment" of sorts. Leave him be and let him fix the mess he created instead of helping him to repair it. Even though I backed off for myself, not to change him, I guess a little part of me was hoping that he would rise to the challenge when he saw I really wasn't going to rescue him. For five months now, he has done nothing productive to fix it! He hasn't seen me or the kids, whom he really does love (well whatever love means, sometimes I wonder about that, but I digress). He sends letters to them and to me saying things like "I miss you" or "Here is a postcard of a boat. I hope you like the picture." But he has not taken any action to take control of the situation, it's almost like he is a completely helpless child. He is even in weekly therapy, so I have no idea what they are working on or talking about.

So what is my point in all this? Nothing I have done has made any difference! Maybe that's too strong of a statement, as he probably does have more insight and self-awareness since we got married and a little more self-control. But what you described as the flawed internal motivation system remains unchanged in him. It's like we have completely different goals in life - I keep wanting to put our family together and figuring out how to do that, while his goal is "it's not my fault." Now it sounds funny to say that is a goal, but seriously I think it is. When we would have conversations in the past about what went wrong and how to move forward so we could have a stable family unit, all he could ever focus on is that he didn't do anything wrong, or he has a right to have a voice, or he did something wrong, but I also did something wrong etc. And I just can't wrap my head around why he is so stuck.

The advice on enabling is also a theme in most books on BPD, so I don't think it was ever intended to cause self blame, and yet, it's insightful to see this impact, because, maybe that is how my father reacted too if we brought it up and it wasn't really our business to do so, but it was also puzzling to see the dynamics when we were older and naively trying to help. By participating on the relationship board, I have gotten more insight into their situation.

If the enabling stops, there will likely be a reaction- an extinction burst. It does take a lot of emotional energy to withstand that. It also takes a lot of emotional energy to continue to enable, so really, the choice becomes about your own stress level.

The rage episodes are all too familiar. Congratulations on your ability to not get upset yourself. Would be great to break down for yourself what you did that worked and be ready to continue using it when needed.

My family member has seen a doctor regarding pain. She has Dr shopped for years and I thought this could finally be the one then suddenly he said something and he's off the books too.
It's a situation where she needs medical intervention but she never follows through though. I'm living with her but I'm not giving any more suggestions unless asked . Today she had an anger rage episode so bad that if I'd heard my neighbour making that noise I'd call the police. I kept calm, affirmed and didn't get upset and I'm not upset now. Please tell me if you have had situations such as this.

Anyway, I think I should try not to hyperfocus on the details and hypocrisies and try and absorb the larger lessons. Manipulation and control can be enacted by people who are not all powerful supervillains, who may indeed be quite weak, mentally ill and unstable - in fact, seeming weak or leaning into apparent victimisation can be one way of exerting control. An important thing is to look at my own agency in normalising harmful behaviour, and in allowing agreements to be forgotten or rewritten - this 'normalised' a state of play where the only accountability was to his emotions of the moment.

NotWendy, your comments on shame are so insightful. uBPDx indeed used to sort of escalate the shamefulness of situations where he was imperfect or criticised in a self-victimising manner.

I remember when he first 'confessed' that he had cheated/ had an affair that destroyed his last relationship. In a small, almost childlike voice he asked, 'Do you think I'm a bad person?' He also described spending a long time in freefall/ fleeing to another country (where he met me) in the tumult of having lost that relationship.

But nowhere in this was there evaluation of his own actions - the aspects of his own mental state and choices that led him to cheat. The intensity of his shame, whether intentionally or not, became a kind of deflection. It made me sorry for him feeling bad about cheating, rather than asking the questions I should have (of course, he cheated again, .) Cc43, what you say about a victim narrative resonates here.

I do understand your situation, and so not here to blame anyone, not my parents either. They are both deceased now.

My father made his own choices. I don't think he knew initially what was going on, as they both were young and BPD wasn't known well at the time,  but he must have figured it out later and decided this is what he was going to do. I think he probably already knew what people might tell him, and it seems you've explored the options too.

Pook - Wendy -

I understand what you are saying.  That's the way it works for emotionally stable non-disordered adults.  We learn from hardships or mistakes and make changes. Doing things for other adults that they can do themselves does not prevent them from having the possibility of learning how to take care of themselves.  For us non-disordered people, we have internal motivations to learn and do things we want to do.

My kids are that way.  Sometimes they tell me, "daddy, I want to do that myself now."  I might have internal motivations to start a new hobby, to cook something challenging, or fill out a 1040 form with paper, pencil, and slide rule - because I want to.  We often do these things on their own without worrying about consequences for not doing them.  

I'm not sure about all pwBPD, but that seems to be the component my W lacks - the "I want to."  She has plenty of motivation to take action - on her own - no matter what I do or don't do for her.  She complains of a lack of money, yet that is not a motivation for her to keep a job.  She complains about a lack of friends, yet that is not a motivation for her to treat others better.  She complains about the kids' behavior - yet that is not a motivator for her to be more present for them.  If she is faced with a real threat (such as getting arrested or a partner breaking up with her), she either temporarily changes or contemplates suicide, but the root cause and pattern remains.  

Yes, if I am not around W will find her own food eventually.  Hunger is a motivator.  But it doesn't change the underlying problem of a lack of internal motivation to enact change - to not let herself get hungry in the first place.  Her internal motivation is to find other people from whom she can borrow an identity.  In other words, she is now motivated to do things for her new girlfriend (such as laundry) but not motivated to do the same things for her own kids.  Why?  Because she fears losing her and doesn't fear losing me or the kids. Her motivation is out of a fear of consequences - the consequence of abandonment.  But if the consequence did happen (and it has many times) her solution is to double-down.  It's a life philosophy that is backwards from the way most of us operate.  She has the same possibilities and options to enact change just like the rest of us, independent of her relationship with me.  She just has no motivation to take them.

I've spent a lot of time on the "am I enabling her" road and it leads to self blame.  My T encourages me to look at the long term pattern for her life and recognize her behavior has never changed one way or the other in response to my actions, and this is the same behavior she has in every relationship she has ever been in.  The "enabling" or "codependency" is about me and only me in the sense that it is a waste of my energy.  I just have a problem with those words because I am not dependent on her, and I can't figure out how I am enabling her if the behaviors existed prior to me and continue with or without me.  I *am*, however, enabling my own stress through the choice of staying married.  

I believe you. I think my BPD mother was as impaired. I don’t think it was as apparent at the time she was married. She married young and was living at her home when she met my father. Women in her era were not expected to work outside the home.

However- to not enable isn’t about the other person or to assure their growth. It may or may not happen. It’s about if  it is taking a toll on you.

So perhaps your better option is to prepare for the long run. As your wife gets older - the dating pool is smaller so finding another partner may not be an option. The chances of getting a job with no work experience is less, even if it was possible. It seems that this is the dynamic you feel is the better option for your situation.