This is what it appeared to happen with my father.

I think anyone in his situation would have felt like that. When BPD mother wanted something, she would escalate until it was impossible to resist. Rather than to go through that, it seemed better in the short run to just give in, and he did.

If appeasement improved the relationship, I would be all for it, but it didn't improve the relationship or my mother's BPD, and it took an emotional toll on my father, even if it did sometimes bring a brief momentary reprieve in her emotional distress. From what I have seen, I don't think appeasement is a solution, although it's a personal choice for each person to make.

To either stay in such a relationship or divorce is a complicated and difficult decision. I don't think anyone on this board considers divorce lightly. It's heavy and seriously thought about.  I also think we differ culturally, and religiously over that decision, and it's a very personal choice. Personally, I don't think someone is required to stay in an emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive relationship, or where their own sense of who they are can not co-exist with their partner. I think the posters here who have gone in that direction have done so after considerable effort has been made to avoid it, and did so because they believe it was their only better choice between two difficult ones. I don't blame anyone for choosing that, or for staying.

While you say you would have appreciated family saying something sooner about it and being supportive in that decision, my experience was different. BPD mother threatened divorce frequently. It scared me as a child. By the time we were teens, having seen the dynamics, the issues, and heard her say this- we thought "then just do it already". Truly, if that would have been the issue and she would be happier, then just do it. We all know now that this wasn't the problem, it was her own internal distress being projected, but we didn't then.

By contrast, Dad rarely vented, but when we were older, he'd reach a point where he had had enough and would say something. However, if I said something in agreement, shortly after this, he'd turn on me, angry for suggesting it, and bond with my mother. BPD mother also would flip from raging to that "good" persona. They'd be acting affectionate with each other. It fit Karpman triangle dynamics.

I saw that emotional bottomless pit of hers. It was pitifult. None of us wanted to see her emotionally suffer and we did what we could to help, but the pit was bigger than anyone could fill.

This is kind of what I’m dealing with at the moment. I’ve written about the current situation in my own thread.

As for the foo dynamics it’s a little easier in my case. My ex and I grew up in the same village, and her family go back many generations from that village. But our families generations are easier to look at because my wife had our first child at 19. Her mother had her at 19 and her mother had her at 18 so we had a 56 year old great grandmother in the family. That great grandmother had mental issues and was sectioned a few times, although she was from the side of my wife’s family that were not from the village. Her uncaring nature passed down to my ex’s mother, less in an uncaring way but it made her very strict with my ex when she was growing up, and she never hugged or kissed her children and never ever told them she loves them.

The problems at the moment are with my ex’s paternal side of the family, the side that has been in the village for generations. Ex’s cousin is not a very good character. I grew up with him and he was always lying, stealing, cheating on all his girlfriends. Then drug abuse, stealing from his family, then heroin addiction, then drug running and now currently keeping a low profile because he has drug dealers after him for a seriously large debt.
But his family have always given him a free pass. Brush it under the carpet and it’s not happening.

Now the same thing is happening with my ex. Drug addiction, lying cheating and now involving our kids asking them to go and get drugs for people. The family know I am angry. Not just the fact she asked our son to go and get drugs, the fact that when both I and her sister confronted her about it she lied, tried to make out my son was drink driving, taking drugs and saying it wasn’t her that asked him to get drugs, so throwing her own child under the bus to try and get out of it. She has rang him crying on the phone when he told her it was wrong of her to ask him to do that. She knows he is not mentally strong at the moment as he tried driving into a tree a little while ago because of his mental state. And her side of the family, well they just say stop being angry and forget about it, because that is the dynamic of that family. Their excuse, well they are adults. They won’t say anything because they are scared they will push her away and she will avoid them, because that is what she does, she can’t own her actions she either avoids them or blames someone else and denies it.

So they walk on eggshells around her, just as I did when I was in the relationship with her. Just like they have done with her cousin, but it hasn’t worked with him, and it won’t work with her.

...

From your descriptions of the situation, it sounds like he was thoroughly beaten down by her emotionally and verbally.  I think as men we're told that women are the "fairer sex" and we need to protect them, cherish them, etc. and in return they're there for us.  It can be quite jarring to discover you've got one that's not what was "advertised," and is instead intensely manipulative and focused entirely on her own needs at your (and everyone else in the family's) detriment.  and perhaps the more troubling part, how willing she is to escalate the behavior - up to and including public scenes, false allegations, etc. I could see a lot of guys just shut down at that point, and think "I'm out of ideas here."  If divorce is not an option for them, for whatever reason, there's really no other choice, unless one is  also willing to drop your own standards and fight fire with fire (and that's hard to do if you've been "raised right" and have a sense of shame!).

I at least had marital, and personal counseling to reach out to for support, and the internet for help.  I like to think I would have divorced eventually, maybe even around the same time I did, even without the internet, but certainly understanding the nature of BPD (or at least behavioral disorders, regardless of what BPDxw's issue was, since she was undiagnosed as far as I know) that it wasn't anything I was doing or had done that was causing the problem made it easier to walk away.  I had stopped thinking the situation was manageable if I could just do something to fix it by that point.  At the time of our last, abortive marital counseling sessions, which were a few months before the final break, I remember telling myself that if she did have a behavioral disorder as I was convinced, the counseling would be pointless, and I was only doing it for myself, so I could say I truly did all I could to anyone who asked.  Seems kinda absurd now, but I was still thinking like that. 

Some family members later confided in me (after I divorced) that they felt like divorce was the only option for me, after seeing BPDxw's behavior, and wanted me to get out, but didn't say anything because they didn't want to live with the idea that they caused me to get divorced.  I would not have blamed them though, I would've appreciated them giving me an extra nudge.  And probably what I needed more than anything else was a show of some financial support that they'd be there for me if I needed a couple months of living expenses to get over the hump.  Earlier in my career, it would've been difficult for me to maintain a home & pay child support and alimony, on top of the legal fees from a divorce.

right.  throwing something in a bottomless pit doesn't fill the bottomless pit. 

too many people get stuck in that endless loop, as by nature they trust that someone making a request genuinely wants what they're asking for.

I have an example of this kind of thinking that may help make some sense of this. I know a young woman with BPD. We were all at a pool party. She had surgery as a child and has a scar that is barely noticeable. Usually nobody sees it but it's visible when she wears a bathing suit. She was in the pool with several people, when suddenly she jumps out, grabs a towel, and runs off.

I asked her mother if she was OK and she said that her daughter thought everyone was looking at her scar. So she left.

Nobody was looking at it. She's self conscious about it and so she thinks people are looking at it, and because she thinks it, it must be true. No amount of talking to her about how nobody is looking at it can change how she thinks because- it's not true and yet, she thinks it anyway.

My BPD mother avoided my father's family. No amount of talking could change that. She also frequently would agree to any kind of social get together- not just with his family, and then change her mind at the last minute due to some reason she'd state. She was critical of my father's family. Obviously her behavior was noticeable to them.

I assumed they'd not have anything to do with each other after my father passed away. Some time later, they had a get together and didn't invite BPD mother. She was furious! I said "but you say you don't like them and you wouldn't go to them anyway so why are you angry?" Her reply "they should have invited me anyway!!"

If none of this makes any sense, it's because it's due to their own thinking about their own feelings.

The odd thing to me is what her own family thought. I thought they were her biggest fans. They would compliment her, invite her over and she often went. We lived very close to them for a  while when I was a child and I recall going to their house but they didn't come to ours. People rarely came over. BPD mother didn't want anyone in the house. She could hold it together in public for social occasions. At home, she was dysregulated a lot. I knew that was the reason but it was kept secret.

Her family told me later, they thought my parents were snobs and too good for them and that is why they never invited them over.

Both sides of the family kept their mouths shut about this, still invited my mother. I didn't know what they actually thought until much later.

My best and only advice is to not have these long discussions with with your H about this. He's going to think what he thinks, and there's no changing that. Your famiy will also come to their own conclusions, based on the behavior they see and their own thoughts about it. Any relationship between your H, his family, and your family- is up to them.

You take care of your own relationship with your family. If they invite the two of you, tell him he's invited, and you'd love for him to attend, then leave it to him to decide. But you go anyway. BPD mother wouldn't go to my Dad's family- but we kids did. Now, we are the adults, and still get together with our own kids. Because of this, we are still connected.

Not so with my mother's FOO. There were years of estrangement. We are trying to reconnect but people are busy and live at a distance. We are not as connected.

Let your H decide about his own family. Tell him you are willing to visit his mother and when he wants to do that, let you know and you can make plans. He may not follow through. He may be blaming you for his own reluctance to go- but that's his projection.

The long conversations won't fix how your H thinks. Just like my friend's daughter who thinks people are looking at her scar, when they didn't even notice it- that's her thinking. Let your H be responsible for his relationships with other people.

You now have a great opportunity to see your side of the family- so go see them, whenever you want to. If your H doesn't want to come, it's fine- let him make his choice. You can still enjoy your relationship with them and stay close.

BPDs tend to tell these stories often and it's a very common theme here.  Every ex was abusive, mean, angry, condescending, etc.  And we swoop in like rescurers thinking that now they're with a good person who loves them and takes care of them, everything will be perfect.

Why?  Because BPDs always feel like they're the victim and the world is so unfair to them.  Since they can't accept their own mental illness, they blame everyone closest to them and it destroys relationships.  That's what happened to you and that's what happened to me as well.  It's such an ugly, painful cycle.

I spent some time looking back as well and realized that many of the stories I heard about exs were not likely true.  But they were true to my ex wife and that's the crux of this mental illness.

After months trying to locate her ex, I finally managed to find his surname, through which I found his Pinterest account, which has one folder called MANIPULATION, and dozens of references about Narcissistic abuse. I had a slight doubt if I found the right person, but when I show all those references I knew it was him and that he went through the same I am going now. I feel a huge RELIEF now and also ANGER when I have confirmed that she apparently did the same in the past and I have invested my love and energy on her. Of course, when she mentioned him, it was his fault that they broke up because he was very jealous... OMG one month apart and now I see so clear everything I did not want to admit. I had it clear she was rather pwNPD and not so much pwBPD, but now the confirmation is total and I think she was totally aware of all her wrongdoing. I have already written to her ex to try to meet him and have a long talk with him. OMG what a RELIEF, I sometimes thought I was flawed and that the conflicts were all my fault, although I knew objectively that the issues were on her side (and codependency and not standing for myself on my side).

Thanks for all your support.

I think my husband has bpd but not sure. We go through a continuous pattern of him getting angry or triggered by things-it could be simple like the way I phrase something, how I said it, etc. it is so difficult to have normal conversations if we disagree or have conflict because once he snaps-there is no reasoning with him. He says terrible mean things but when it’s over he is back to his normal kind and loving self. Asking him to help me with the bills is even difficult because for some reason he gets offended. I am so drained because I feel like I am walking on egg shells. After every single conflict or argument, it feels like I am the one at fault no matter what.I have read a lot on bpd because my therapist said it sounds like my husband could be dealing with this. I don’t know how to cope

That's true. Divorce was looked down on and there was shame involved. Divorced women  were not considered as desirable partners either. Until relatively recently, many women didn't work outside the home. If there was divorce, custody went to the mother, and the father would be paying alimony.

Family patterns are also intergenerational. We've seen examples on this board where FOO dynamics have influenced behavior in marriages.

I also left home at an early age- went off to college early. I wanted to do that. I didn't break contact with my parents.

The appeasing behavior doesn't puzzle me. It's when the assumed more "normal" partner  appeases to the point of self harm or harm to others or relationships that does. We understand that the pwBPD has a mental illness, but we assume the partner is more relatively stable. So when the parent who provides the support and protection some of the time, somehow turns a blind eye to the BPD spouse's abuse, it's confusing, because that isn't the kind of behavior we attribute to them.

That my father was both my main supporter, the one I looked up to, and yet also be an accomplice to her hurtful behavior at time was difficult to process. In some ways more difficult to understand than my mother's behavior. She had a diagnosis which explains that.

It's when someone who is usually reasonable and caring does things they think are unreasonable due to their BPD partner that puzzles me. Appeasing by doing more around the house, or spending money that they can't afford can have hurtful consequences but it's not at the level hurt that cutting contact with family members or tolerating abusive behavior- which seem to be some dilemmas on this board. If appeasing to this degree was a solution and the person who is appeasing was happy- great, then everyone is happy. But from posts on this board, appeasing didn't achieve that for them.









 

Americans face similar challenges in the Philippines, where we can't own land or a home and it's very complicated to own a business.  I'm curious though, you said your husband is a foreigner there as well.  Is your business technically in his name or someone else's name (like a local)?  When you mentioned your event business in the past, were you talking about the one he's registered as the owner of or something else?

I just want to make sure I have the facts straight.

If you're talking about the event/retreat business, in my opinion it doesn't really matter who owns it.  If people associate your name with the brand, then just make a new brand and take the clients with you.  In the US he could sue, but it's very different in this region of the world.

Also, a lot of people look at what a divorce would cost them, instead of what they're actually gaining.  Peace of mind, independence, no more arguing and ranting...that in itself is worth a lot.  Would it be worth giving him the business to gain that freedom?  Again, you can rebuild the business on your own since it was yours to begin with.  You did it once, so do it again with the contacts you've already made.

For the financials in-country, you're right in saying that you're at his mercy.  Step one should be to open a bank account of your own today.  Start saving and building your own nest egg while you're there.  Also figure out what's in your name (the power bill, etc) and what's not.  Make a concrete plan that you can kick into action whether he cooperates or not, and then begin moving forward.

Divorcing him in the USA is appealing because he won't be able to easily defend his side.  I'm thinking you said he was from Europe- France maybe?  My memory is terrible for stuff like that so I probably have that wrong.  Giving yourself home court advantage sounds like a smart move (especially if he's not American).

It's okay to voice reality.  You needed that expression.  Will she respond positively, long term?  Might she see the need to start therapy to point her into a better direction?  (BPD is a disorder most impacting of close relationships.  You wish she would listen, but the baggage of the dysfunctional relationship gets in the way.  That's why there is slightly more chance of her listening to a trained expert who doesn't have a close relationship with her.)

Next time... Ponder over how to separate the person from abusive behavior.  Perhaps, "I love you but I don't like you when you act like that."  However, even that may get pushback and not get positive results.

It can come to a point where your own health and mental composure brings you to a realization that the discord and dysfunction is simply too much for you to bear.  Don't feel guilty if you reach that point, after all, you're only human.