Hi Lauters ,

Thanks, I think this is helpful, but this is not enough to deal with partners that have BPD.

The need to be a rescuer or persecutor is something that will drag us deep into the drama and may keep us stuck in the dysfunctional relationship. But I think most of us don't have this intrinsic need, and yet there the person with BPD will find other ways of pulling us into the drama.

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For many of us, like me, it's more about seeing a big problem in our partner and trying to fix it. That's why autistic people are drawn to BPD partners. Because autistic people like puzzles and like to solve problems, and BPD partners are real puzzles and look like problems to be solved. I'm not autistic, but that applies to me. At least I gave up on solving it by myself, as I now rely on professionals and hopefully an effective prescription drug to "fix" her.

For instance, with my first wife, things were calm most of the time, so I was happy in not having anything to fix. Then, as she developed postpartum psychosis, I tried to fix it for some time, but soon I gave up because I couldn't help and I wasn't attracted to her anymore.

In my current relationship, however, it's different because I like her more, so she is worth fixing. It's not because I want to be a rescuer. It's because I still see hope in her. And after she is fixed, she will be able to function and work, which will already be great. And then I might even bring her back home, but I don't need to.

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But I don't think that the desire to fix them, on its own, will pull us into the drama. I think we get the drama when either:

1) We have expectations of them that aren't met, from our perspective
2) They have expectations of us that aren't met, from their perspective
3) We live together and are always available as a drama target

So even we who don't have the need to be a rescuer or prosecutor may get pulled into the drama simply because we have expectations about our partner. The conflict may be inevitable just for the fact that we expect something from them. When you expect intimacy, closeness, attention, consideration, faithfulness, etc., then those expectations of yours may be used by them to create drama. Especially after you build a family and have kids, because then you'll develop many more expectations about your partner. Your expectations will always be your vulnerability to their need to create drama.

So since someone with BPD will never be able to reliably fulfill your expectations, I think it's only feasible to have a drama-less relationship with a person with BPD when:

a) You aren't expecting anything from them (perhaps they aren't your intimate partner anymore)
b) You are fulfilling all of their expectations of you
c) You don't live together

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For instance, in the beginning of my relationship with my current wife, she made huge efforts to drive me jealous. She wanted to have the upper hand in our relationship, but not just that, she wanted drama. Since I didn't know her well, I avoided all drama and tried to just observe, but she kept feeding into it with lies and created a very unpleasant feeling in me that I couldn't trust her because she lied so much, so I kept questioning her about it and even used a lie detector. So I inevitably fed into her drama because I had the need to know the truth. Currently I know her well and don't fall for it, but we are now a family, so she still has other sources to create drama if she wants, as I still have some expectations of her in regard to the kids at least.

So I'm trying to eliminate all of my remaining expectations of her. I got to a point at which I feel better with her around. And every time she tries to create drama, I step back. And since she wants to restore our relationship, she is making an effort to avoid drama. At the same time, I try to provide her with love, which will reinforce positive interactions. That can work because love is a positive form of stimulating their endogenous opioid system.

But eventually I get frustrated with something, and I show some negative emotion, and then it doesn't work.

Does all of what I said make sense for everyone?

As a Christian, I believe that marriage is two striving together to become one in everything.  I'm not trying to turn this into a religious topic or insert my religious beliefs here, other than to point out that adding someone else to the relationship generally goes against what most would perceive as a marriage (religious or secular).

Even in marriages at a courthouse, I've frequently heard something like, "To have and to hold, in sickness and in health, until death do us part."  The state views the conditions you describe as adultery, so I don't see how it's acceptable in any way. 

Of course, you have the final say in that but since you're here, it doesn't sound like you're too happy with it either.  That alone should tell you something in regards to figuring out where you stand.

Although it goes against my beliefs, I would ask my wife if she was okay if I started dating others as well.  Her reaction would tell me where the marriage stood and if I should continue to try.  If she said, "Sure, go sleep around," then that would be the end for me.  If she said, "Why on Earth would you think it's okay to ask me that, heck no you can't!" then maybe the marriage was worth fighting for.

I wish you luck!

Take a step back from the subject content and look at the behavior pattern. IMHO, every one of these statements are based on your wife's feelings and a solution isn't reached by discussions. These are leads into circular arguments. This is the kind of thing BPD mother would do when she's focused on something as the "solution" for her. Often she'd persist and persist until my father (or us kids) would just say "yes" to get her to stop. This led to agreeing to things we would not ordinarily agree to, just to end it.

Everyone wants what they want- that's not unusual, but we don't go about it this way. People usually weight the pros and cons of these wants. Your wife wants what she wants, and this is how she gets it. Chances are, you give in too, just to get the situation to resolve, and so this works for her.

Rather than focus on the content of what she's saying- look at these statements as potential circular arguments. Discussing these has no resolution. It would all be JADE to do so. What will stop them is a "yes" to her request. But it seems you don't want to agree to this, so now what?

Just stop talking about it and stop focusing on it. This is adding attention to it and that is a reinforcer. One can be "addicted" to drama. No good will come out of a discussion on this topic. She wants what she wants, and you have your own feelings about it.

It's possible the other woman doesn't want to break up your marriage. If she's not monogamous herself, she may have looked on the dating site for someone else who is in a relationship. To her defense- it's your wife who put herself out there on the dating site. This woman may have assumed your wife was in an open relationship if she's married and on a dating site.

That concept is not new. A book about open marriage came out in the 1970's, along with books on all kinds of new ideas about sex and relationships. If open marriage is a choice, so is monogamy. Choosing what you can manage is not being brainwashed. Where your wife's boundaries are not clear- she wants you to feel like she does. But two people don't always feel the same way about things.

My own take on this is that she's going to do what she wants to do. IMHO, I'd stop the discussion, saying- "I don't agree with this but we are both adults who make their own choices here" and "I don't wish to discuss this further" and then don't engage in these discussions. I think this is one more "crisis" driven by her feelings and it will probably fizzle if you don't add fuel to it. If she really wants to explore with this woman, she's going to do it anyway.

The trick is trying not to enter into the Karpman triangle drama game. There exists a lot of literature about this, it's very easy to find. Personnaly, I read 'The Karpman triangle explained' from Chris West, and 'How to break free of the drama triangle and victim consciousness' written by Weinhold & Weinhold. We all do drama, we learned it from our education. We see it on TV (e.g. sit-coms are based on this priciple). But BPD-persons are experts in this game. They start blaming you, i.e. the 'game invitation' (BPD =  persecutor, and you the 'victim'), and if you react the wrong way, a switch will happen, turning you into the persecutor and the BPD becoming the victim. According to Weinhold & Weinhold, we all tend towards the 'victim' corner of the triangle (but not all experts agree on this view): we get things done without having to ask for it. And BPD-persons love to be the victim: that leaves you being the persecutor or the rescuer (the third angle of the triangle).
Since I read these books, I became more aware of the dynamics that play a role in communication. I try not to respond to these 'game invitations' anymore. And that helps a lot. I still have to figure out how to proceed in a more effective way, but not saying anything and listening seems to work most of the times. As is stated in literature, if the R&B (raging & blaming) stays underneath a 5/10 (on a scale with 10 being the worse situation possible), there is a fair chance to get the BPD-person to calm down again. One of the replies you can use is 'what do you expect from me'? By not responding to their game invitations, you might stay under the violance limit of 5, and get back to normal more often than was the case.
I hope this is of any help. 

CC, you nailed it in the head as well!  I have worked very hard over the years on accepting that this is who he is. I do my best to not take it personally and try really hard to realize this has nothing to do with me. What gets me, is the forever wanting to “get me” when deregulated and the knowledge that whatever is set up for this week will not work next week!  Having 5 kids, 2 of which need someone at home with them, this is my biggest issue right now. I have to work to pay for everything since he won’t pay for anything. But last week he wanted to be around the kids 24/7, when I text him to confirm the plan for the week this week, he responded “when will the kids be at my place” which is his standard line recently as I have already told him I am not comfortable with that. So I am attempting to set up full coverage for the week, but…knowing him if I just set up full coverage for the rest of the school year, in the past he has just shown up early to pick up our daughter leaving our babysitter wondering what is going on, or he has worked from home with the babysitter at the house our daughter was in a clingy mood and wouldn’t leave him alone while he was working, I don’t know what happened but after that day he got fired and the babysitter quit…he told me he forgot to put his phone on mute and his coworkers heard him “trying to calm” our daughter….so this is where I get stuck. I can set up plans, but he ruins them every time! Part of why he ruins them is because I think deep down he doesn’t want me to work and have a way to pay for things, but if it wasn’t for me, we would be living out on the streets! Seriously!

Thank you both, as you have both hit the nail on the head with your comments. SuperDaddy, it is for reasons 1 and 2. He is strangely over protective of “his” kids. He doesn’t want them going out with my family even if my other kids are going and “his” kids are begging him to go, he doesn’t acknowledge that they have friends and my kids only see their friends when I set things up without him being aware of it, and if “his” kids are hanging out with my other kids friends at our house he will tell the friends that “his” kids are fine playing with “his” other kids, even though that’s not what they want. His perfect day in a deregulated state is him having his 3 kids alone at “his” place, but only after he gets back from the gym, him sitting on the couch watching tv, while my stepdaughter takes care of our 2 kids. And he wants that because he knows that that makes me upset!  Which brings me to the second reasoning you mentioned. He doesn’t this to make me mad. There have been several instances where he has chosen the move that makes me mad over choosing the move that would allow him to be a part of the kids more which is what he states he wants. I am a very independent woman and I know that bugs him, but when I try to lean on him, 75% of the time, he dysregulates  and then I am left to figure it out on my own in a big pinch. So I try to show that I am relying on him, but always have a back up plan in place. Which doesn’t teach him anything because he never feels the repercussions of his backing out.

Do you believe any of this?

Hi Riderthestorm,

What you describe sounds familiar to me from my partner. He has an official BPD-NPD diagnosis (which he does not accept, however). He also has regular phases in which he believes he is an unrecognised genius and compares himself to great writers.
Sometimes he also sees ‘ghosts’ who want to tell him something.
He definitely has grandiose ideas and feels entitled.
He also repeatedly stops taking his medication and lies to his doctors and therapists or downplays his symptoms.
What you describe could apply to NPD.
His therapist at the time said that people with NPD can temporarily develop psychotic symptoms under severe stress, narcissistic injury or a collapse of self-image:
visual hallucinations
paranoid ideas
magical or delusional thinking.

From what you describe about his situation at work, he seems to be stressed. Perhaps he is going through a narcissistic crisis?
Can you tell us a little more about him?

bless you for this thread- just discovered this now - i in my twenties and struggling out of home where i suffered under a bpd mom and a narc mostly absent dad was absolute hell - leaves you with your sense of self feeling like a black hole - searing pain - anyone in similar situation with tips of what therapy etc has helped you - also how you managed dating etc -   i cant take this its so overwhelming -

The next day, I got another text stating that she is aborting for good, that it's my fault because the father of the child doesn't love her. She went through the abortion this time.

 I told her the absolutely worst things you can think of. Told her she is a PLEASE READing demon that doesn't deserve children among other things. is unfit to be a mother. She came back a couple days later, and we met up. I'm heartbroken, and she's just there. How could you do such a thing?

 We spent time together but it's just not the same. I don't see her as a woman anymore. Inside, I feel asexual, with no sexual attraction towards her. No sex, I don't want it. Every day, she blames the abortion on me, on my anger, on my rants, on my little explosions, on my supposed love for my exes, but I'm feeling like she's right, I shouldn't have done any of those things.

 We argue, accuses me of not loving her, that she wants someone to look at her with sparkle in their eyes, to have someone swoon after her, and for the first time, I leave. She ends up texting and calling, begging for me back. I tell her the only way I'd get back with her is if she does therapy and takes medication. She goes once, takes medication a couple times, and then stops. I was going to end it there, but something happened and I just didn't.

 Every other day, this happens. She flips out of nowhere (especially when we get back home or when I leave to go back home), and the tornado is formed. I begged her to stop, ask her to be better, and to get help for the sake of herself and Himari. She starts bawling, "Himari, oh Himari!" Blames me for the abortion for the 1000000th time. Tells me she regrets aborting, that it has completely shattered her soul.

 Whenever I would leave to go back home for the night, and i'd leave some of my belongings, she would flip out, and sort of keep my items hostage. Would start with offering to drop off my belongings, (i wouldn't answer) then would request me to go pick it up, (i wouldn't answer) then say that she's actually throwing it away,(i wouldn't answer) "oh nvm all your stuff is actually in the garbage now get PLEASE READed" (she never actually threw any of my stuff away). This happened dozens of times... And I stayed. I always came back.

 We'd be having a blast, and out of nowhere she would just get quiet. And I knew what was coming. She'd ask, "Do you love me?" And no matter what I responded with, the tornado would appear, and I would get sucked into it.

 Another argument, another crash out of hers which would end with me leaving. Then I'd block her, and she would use different numbers and emails, attempting to reach me, begging for me back, saying "Don't go, please come back, I always want it to work, don't leave me alone." I'd wait a couple days, respond, and go back. Another night she flips out, annoyed and hurt by the grey zone i have her in, friendship/relationship/situationship, and that she wants to go see other people. I don't stop her. She begs me back.

 She adopted the dog but then returned it because of peeing issues. We rescued another dog together; and I viewed it almost like our aborted daughter's guardian. I loved that dog. She doted it for a while, but then stopped taking the dog outside for walks, and due to her financial issues, would buy dog food, feed the dog for a few days, then return the bag. Oh, and the teddy bear with the heartbeat sound of our daughter's heartbeat? She had it out on the counter for a couple months, but it's now in the closet in some box. Breaks my heart.

 One day she picks up a random cat. Cute thing, Siamese blue eyed. One night, we're sleeping together, and I get a massive allergic reaction. My eyes and throat are swelling up. She doesn't have Benadryl or anything I could use, so I must go out and get it ASAP. So, i tell her to stay behind while I find help. On the way to the pharmacy, I get a message from her accusing me of lying just to leave to go have sex with some other girl at 2AM. I couldn't breathe, and she's accusing me of lying to go see a woman. I'm so tired, I don't argue back, so I just tell her that it sounds like she's projecting, cause she's the one probably talking to someone behind my back, but that I didn't care, so I blocked her. She begs me back, I'm bored so I come back eventually.

 Now she is the one storming off. Leaves for a few hours, sometimes come back 5 hours later, or the next morning. Same PLEASE READ happens almost every time I come over. I had suspicions, but I never got hard proof. I was certain of what was going on though.

 One day, I felt so tired, so defeated, so bored, that I left, and block her everywhere. She EMAILS me, begging for me back "don't go. i never want you to go, i love you and really want it to work" I forward it to her workplace (government, big shots). She is radio silent. Eventually comes to my house, crying, bawling, asking me how I could do such a thing to her, that im this horrible person! I told her, "I told you to stop, and you didn't."

 I block her everywhere. It's now May 2025. Months go by, no contact from her end. I tried sending a few messages but had no answer.

 I was free. I didn't think about her, only insignificant passing thoughts. I didn't miss her nor was I pining for her.

 On 4th of July, my buddy's little brother, Bigger (little troll that kid) got ahold of my phone and started texting people, one of them being my ex's friend, Diana. Nothing happened though (my ex could even ask Diana to see the message, it's absolutely nothing)

 It's now December 2025. I send her a message on WhatsApp, she reads it, doesn't respond. Now, New Year, 2026, I send a message, she reads it, doesn't respond. I feel sort of sad. All the time we spent together, everything we told each other and disclosed, and now, the door is shut.

 January 12, I text her asking how she's doing, how the dog is, that I didn't want to get between her work and possible relationship(s), but it's been about a year since our daughter. And said P.S. sorry about the thing about your friend Diana, it was a mistake.

 She replies. She's cordial, shares that aborting our daughter is and will always be her biggest regret. Says she found God, that she has fallen so low, that the cost was great but she has found some peace and religion. She appreciates everything I've done for her. Asks how I am, starts rapid-firing questions, tells me I don't have to respond to her if I didn't want to.

 I ask about the dog. She says she had to surrender the dog, her heart hurts, but she doesn't have money for dental work. PLEASE READ, my heart sinks (I told her I would take care of it in case something happens).

 When she added me on WhatsApp, she didn't have a profile picture. But in a span of 12 hours, she changed her picture about 7 times. Trying too hard? Idk.

 I ask her if she can take me to the shelter, if she is uncomfortable, to just point me where and who to talk to. That night, we had a 2-hour-long phone call. Talk about what we've been up to, mentions she's surprised I haven't moved to the city 3 hours away (where my ex Maddy, the one she demonized, lives, coincidentally) how my parents are, etc. She asks about Diana, and I tell her it was an honest mistake. I ask her if she wants to go get sushi, nothing serious, she doesn't say yes or no, just asks where I would like to go. Doesn't mention a partner or anything.

 Next day, she texts asking about when I'm picking up the dog, that she could take the dog back if I can't. I drive 2.5 hours to pick the dog up. Lady that works at the non-profit shelter meets me at the vet, tells me the dog is underweight, has been eating her own poop,obvious that she hasn't been walked properly, is spewing bile, and seems depressed. The dog seems to be abused.

 I am fuming. The lady shares that she saw the dog on facebook marketplace!! for free! Says when they surrendered the dog, the guy explained it was because of family issues. Guy? Some guy with my ex was the one that abandoned the dog I love so much? I am blood red. Who the PLEASE READ is this guy that gave my damn dog away?

 I drive 2.5 hours back with pure adrenaline fueling me and my car. Go to her house, knock knock knock knock, when I hear a dog barking inside. They gave up SJ, the dog that reminds me of my aborted child, for some other dog? Whatever control I had was lost.

 She opens, looks like she is going to cry (shame? guilt?), and I storm in. Look for the guy, he is hiding in the bathroom with the lights off. Fat guy, with a belly. Tell them that I'm going to have a conversation with them both about the abused dog.

 She takes me outside to talk, and he just stands there, almost deferring to her. (Why wouldn't your man answer the door? Why are you hiding?) Then the guy starts yapping when I tell him to STFU, she tells me not to disrespect him. Ex tells me I haven't changed, that I'm the same person.

 I just broke down. I ask a million questions: How long did you wait to start talking to this guy? When did he move in? How could you do this to our dog? Why didn't you tell me about him? Where were you? I tried to reach you in September when my mom was almost dying and I needed someone by my side, you didn't answer me when I texted you. I haven't been able to spend time with the mother of our dead child; I have nothing to tie me to her. I told her all this.

 She doesn't really answer me, but blames me for the abortion, tells me to atone and apologize internally a thousand times. Says he moved in 2 months ago, that they just started dating. Blames me for being the one to leave, blames me for potentially ruining her new relationship, that she was forced to move on because I was the one that left. I was the one that left her. Tells me, "What, it didn't work out with Diana?" Sigh...

 I tell her that I've missed her, that I've been seeking help, that I still loved her. I asked if she still loved me. She says, "I can't answer that in respect to my friend. And now you ruined that too."

 She starts walking away; I beg her for a moment more, and I hug her. We stay there for a few seconds. She's worried now because the guy might have called the cops. She walks away; I follow, meet up with the guy. I calm down; we talk about the dog. Say they are strapped for cash (apartment full of electronics and games). Hand them a quote for 15% of the price. There was no excuse.

 Tell the guy, look, I'm not trying to get with Charm; I'm just here because of the dog. Guy is fat and keeps deferring/swiveling head to Charm for answers but doesn't seem like a bad guy.

 My ex called me a couple hours later. Her: "Get out of my PLEASE READing life. My new relationship is done because of you." Me: "I'm sure he'll come back. Goodbye. Her: "No dude, the damage is irreversible. And in my embarrassment, I deleted all my messages so I can't show my close friend/person I'm dating anything. I never said I wanted anything platonic or romantic with you. It was all about the dog. Thanks for ruining it." If it was all about the dog, why did you call me and speak with me for almost 2 hours? Why didn't you bring him up? Why didn't you tell him about me Blocks me.

 Frustrated and sad again. I open and share what i've been holding on to to the girl I've been talking to but not really dating yet. It's the past ex that Charm would constantly PLEASE READ on and use against me, Maddy.

Maddy listens without judging. Doesn't offer much to say, but is adamant about getting the dog back, because my ex Charm cannot raise anything according to her.

Charm has blocked me everywhere. Deleted WhatsApp. Use my iPad to message her, saying Maddy will pick up the dog. Her: "Sad. I am keeping the dog and will take care of it." (Blocks me.)

 Me: (Make a phony number) "Need I remind you that the dog is under my name. I will call the authorities if I don't get that dog back. LMK when Maddy can pick her up." Her: "Who is Maddy?" Me: "My girlfriend. The one you demonized for years." Her: "Can Maddy pick her up at XYZ at time XYZ?"

 Maddy said it wouldn't change anything, but if i want to just spill it all to let it all go. So, I vented all my frustrations against my ex. Told her that I was a MAN to her, that I was a provider, that I got PLEASE READ done, and always made sure she was gratified sexually, intellectually, and emotionally, brought up everything she did against me. No answer from her part. So, I brought up the fact that she kept changing her profile pictures on WhatsApp to get my attention, and that got her to respond.

 She said, "Chris there's no need to do this. There are many things I could say, but it would be irrelevant due to the peace I've made. You need to understand that you were the one that left. I moved on. Besides, it was heart wrenching the entire time. We were both in bad places." Me: "I was forced to move on. And I had pure intentions. I wanted to heal, and I wanted you to heal so someday maybe we could give Himari a little brother/sister, but you just moved on." Her: "Pure intentions? Like trying to get with Diana? BullPLEASE READ. Enough. You have moved on, and so have I. "

So, I unloaded a bit more, but she didn't respond. I calm down, take a Lexapro, and start thinking realistically. I already have two dogs, and this third dog would end up being taken care of my mom, I also know that Maddy loves pets, but I can't really force her into this mess either. It's selfish. So, I decided to let my ex keep the dog.

 Her: "OK I will keep the dog. I/my mom will make sure to take good care of her."

 I write a bit more, but she doesn't respond. I make another number and ask if I could help her mend her situation with her ex.

 Her: "Everything is fine. Go find your peace, and I will find mine. Goodbye, Chris."

 The end.

 A little more context on dates. We met in April 2024. She moved in 1.5 months after, approximately. She got pregnant around early June 2024. She aborted around the end of October 2024. She moved into her new apartment around November/December 2024. My soft break up with her was around December 2024/January 2025. I broke up with her and blocked the end of May 2025. I tried reaching out to her around July, then again August, September, and December 2025. I know for a fact she got some of these messages. She says she tried to contact me somewhere around 1-2 months after May 2025 (though I did not receive anything). The last altercation happened in January 2026.