Title should read "Back again with more drama "

I was on here a few years ago and you were all so helpful and kind. It's tough on this bpd island.

We have had a relatively quiet year or so but in the past week and a half everything has imploded. My daughter and I moved in with my boyfriend a year ago and she has not been happy. She doesn't like him, is rude, doesn't go to school, mostly won't take medication or eat regularly. My son recently moved in with us and she is not reacting well. She tells me she considers him an "opp" and doesn't want him to be here (he is 18, she is 16). I think she wants me for herself.

Everything came to a head the weekend before last when she and my partner had an argument. She accused him of giving her a black eye and the police were called. I was not home but I have cameras in the house and I have known this man for 8 years. That did not happen. The police never came, but she is continuing her accusations and now DHS is involved. They came out and interviewed her, her brother (who was home) and me. We haven't heard back from them (approx one week fin interviews).

Today, she is angry at me because I did not rent an apartment for her, a thing she has wanted since she accused my boyfriend of hurting her. She began yelling at me and then started punching herself in the face over and over again, asking me if this was what I wanted. She is bigger/stronger than me and she was physically preventing me from leaving the room. I ended up calling 911, I want them to come and take her to the hospital. I'm so tired of the constant drama, the accusations, the manipulation. Idk if the police will actually come but I truly believe she is a danger to herself or the rest of us.

I love her so much and this breaks my heart but she needs help. She caused so much chaos here, but I always feel so conflicted. 

I was raised by a mother with BPD, and I am now a doctoral doing a study about adults who were raised by a mother with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

The survey asks about what life was like for you growing up and your current stress and well-being. It takes about 15–20 minutes. Your answers will be kept private, and you can stop at any time.

You can take part if:
• You are 18 or older
• Your mother has diagnosed BPD or you suspect your mother has BPD
• You lived with your mother for most of your childhood

If you meet these requirements and want to join the study, please click the link:

https://spalding.questionpro.com/adultchildrenofmotherswithBPD

Thank you for thinking about taking part. Your answers may help researchers understand this group better.

Hello,

I am new to this. This post is just to help me acclimate to how this works.

Remember boundaries are about you. Yes, say it so there's no assumptions on her part where you stand. It has to be a firm boundary. Fuzzy ones don't work. You can't say "no adultery unless ....". You have to be firm about your boundary for yourself. It has to be a firm no for you. 

Also don't make statements about consequences you can't keep. Something like "if you do this, the marriage is over". I don't think you are at this point yet.

I stated this in earlier posts.  State the boundary in "I" terms, and make it concise and direct. "Monogamy is a firm value for me in a marriage. I do not agree with having an open marriage. I also know I can not control your actions" Then you stop the discussion. There's nothing else to say at this point.

So, Max, assuming she is only looking for a fling, not a long term partner, and she may do this no matter what you say- how will you handle this?

Remember - this is about you, not her.

I don't get the sense you'd leave her, considering her condition and the impact it would have on your family right now.

Sounds like in her own thinking, monogamy means long term comitment. That's with you. Somehow she is thinking that does not exclude flings.

I think she also means monogamy for you. After all, you are the one who can make platonic friends, but she "just can't". Note- her "explanation" is from victim perspective. It's her trauma, it's that she can't make friends, she's lonely, she's getting older--- it's not her fault. It also sounds like you buy into this too- it isn't her fault she's like this. In her mind she needs this to feel better.

I have heard a lot of justifications from BPD mother for her behavior. "It's because of the (emotional) pain" "it's because of something in the past and when she's obsessed with something she believes she needs, she's determined to do it. She could come up with justifications for wanting to do something self destructive or hurtful that somehow made this not her fault.

Natural consequences may be the only lesson here. Your wife has difficulty with all relationships, and so even the "flings" would be complicated. This other woman sounds like she has her own issues. I don't condone adultery, but if your wife is going to do it, I think it would become another disappointing attempt to fill her emotional needs.

You keep to your own standards for yourself, so your integrity is intact.

Exactly.  Right now it seems her desire is to be able to fool around and explore as she pleases but still maintain the stability of marriage.  There is absolutely no way that could ever work for me.  The only situation where I would ever consider an open marriage is if the third person had something I could not provide (a woman, in this case) AND was a stable relationship.  Given that my W's most stable relationship in her whole life has been me (by a very long shot) and our relationship is not very stable, there is ZERO chance she could have a stable relationship with another unless she had breakthrough success with therapy.  But such breakthrough success would mean she is in control of her emotions, and thus her desire to be with others would be controllable.  So really, there is ZERO chance any kind of an open relationship within this marriage can work for me.   As much as I try to keep an open mind about things, this is a boundary I cannot cross. 

I guarantee to almost certainty that if she were to enter a physical relationship with this woman, drama would ensue almost immediately, that drama would then be projected to me and the kids, and somehow I would be blamed for her extra marital affair falling apart. 

My current question for myself is do I state that boundary directly now, or trust that she understands my boundary already and simply take action when/if it is crossed?  In a healthy relationship, I think an extra marital affair is a boundary that does not have to be stated.

Truthfully, her answer doesn't necessarily matter because it will either be dishonest (it's just a one-time thing) or a delusion (this is what I need to make me happy).  For BPDs, their happiness comes from their emotions at any given moment, so it can shift as frequently as the wind.

If you give in here and she pursues her desires, what happens when that relationship is not enough?  Where's the limit?  Three partners?  Five?  Ten?

It will never be enough because the problem is mental illness.  This is like having a broken arm and taking a Tylenol...while expecting the arm to be all better in the morning.  It just doesn't work that way.

It's 100% your decision on how to proceed and I'm not trying to steer you either way.  I just had to point out the obvious here, that the mentally ill acting on sexual impulsions outside the home does not lead to a long-term happy marriage.

Pete -  we did discuss this a little last night - that an extramarital relationship not only involves her, but also me and the kids.  The desire to have another long term partner is completely different than the desire for sexual curiosity and pleasure.  The latter creates unstable situations for me and the kids and is purely selfish.  That’s why I asked her point blank if she viewed this other woman as another potential long term partner or as someone to satisfy a curiosity or craving.  She knows the types of relationships she had before me would be destructive to me and to the kids. Her struggle is to contain an obsession.

In response to all the discussion about whether wife with BPD will be able to work, I have some questions. Many years ago, the US federal government placed a five year lifetime limit on receiving welfare benefits. The state of California started mandatory Dialectal Behavior Therapy (DBT) for long time recipients many of whom supposedly had BPD. I am wondering if anybody knows anything about the results, if a significant number of the recipients unable to work actually ended up working and what percent of those likely had BPD. I once knew a therapist who worked in this program and she was completely burned out from all the suicide threats/attempts. It seems that the discussion here is leaning towards saying that in some cases if the person with BPD has to work, that he/she might eventually be able to work. Members on this site have often asked if they should try to get DBT for the person in their life with BPD. I have heard that DBT is mostly successful with the most severely impaired people with BPD, those who have made multiple suicide threats/attempts. Of course, getting a person with BPD to do DBT when it is not mandated is likely one of the biggest challenges including the availability and costs.