Hi there,

With big and blended families, I think it's normal to be flexible when it comes to celebrating the holidays.  I think of holidays as a season more than one specific day.  With that spirit, it becomes easier to orchestrate celebrations with multiple family members given some flexibility in logistics--dinner at one place, presents and coffee cake the next morning at another place, take a kid out to dinner at a preferred restaurant the next night after picking them up at the airport, visiting grandma and taking her out to lunch the next day, etc.  Adult children might need to split visits between parents and/or spouses/significant others.  I think that's wonderful.

With the pwBPD in my life, I think she's not ready to celebrate holidays with extended family members, as she maintains her narrative that they are toxic.  I think the real issue is that she feels inferior, and she doesn't want to be triggered by other people's happiness, nor by parents' attention focused on siblings.  So what we have done in the past is to exchange presents just with her, sometime after the holiday--provided that she's still in the mood and decides to show up.  If not, I'll save the presents for another time.

Yet I think the original poster's quandry reflects three underlying issues:  first, the kids dislike the girlfriend and find her so toxic that they are unwilling to engage with her at all.  Look, I understand that reaction in certain contexts--kids generally don't like to see their "real" mom displaced, and for their dad to dote on someone new.  But given that the kids are adults now, and many years have passed, it's a pretty strong message that not a single child is willing to tolerate her presence for a few hours, even if it would make their dad happy.  That to me indicates that the girlfriend's behavior is egregious.

The second issue I see is the girlfriend's misguided reaction to the upcoming wedding.  I totally understand her desire for marriage--after dating for a long time, she might start insisting on commitment in the form of marriage, and if she doesn't hear a proposal soon, she might think she has been wasting her time.  It's impossible not to dwell on marriage when other people around her are getting married.  But she refuses to attend a family member's wedding because she can't stand it?  Look, part of commitment (and marriage) is supporting one's partner, even through things one doesn't necessarily enjoy.  To me it's a sign that your girlfriend isn't really willing to support you when you need it.  Sure, she'll justify her decision on feeling traumatized, or slighted, or embarrassed, or "triggered," but the reality is she's not there for you when it counts in my opinion.

The third issue I see is your hesitation about marriage.  Apparently you've been seeing your girlfriend (maybe on and off), for a long time now.  Maybe you have what you consider to be a casual relationship, and that's OK--many couples want to keep things casual, provided they are on the same page.  By now your girlfriend has shown you how she reacts to your family, and how she acts when things aren't necessarily about her, but you, your kids or others.  The best indicator of how she will act in the future is  how she's acted in the past.  My opinion is that she will not change one bit once she gets a ring on her finger.  If that gives you pause, then that's good information.  Maybe for you, things are least bad exactly as they are right now.

In a manner of speaking, your mother likely chose your father just for his qualities, whether they were codependence, loyalty, passivity or others.

For all you know, your mother may have had other opportunities to have other relationships but they didn't develop.  It may be that her comfort zone of behavior was familiar to her just as his comfort zone was familiar to him, and even if not, the passage of time solidified their patterns into what it is until today.

I completely agree and that's the point I was trying to convey.  There's nothing wrong with your partner wanting to marry, and her intentions may seem 100% pure.  In her mind, they probably are. 

You also mentioned that living together led to more dysfunction, and a wedding ring will not fix that.  It's very possible, probable even, that she expects that marriage will instantly fix everything (with you, with the kids, etc).  It will not.  Only working through it will make meaningful change.

With that said, the decision is completely yours and there are no wrong choices.  You love who you love and there's no shame in that.  We're just trying to give you a clearer big picture.

I wanted to point out a distinction. What a pwBPD may want can appear like a normal "want" or an excessive want. What is different is how they perceive the purpose of that want- as if it is the solution for their own emotional distress. It's projection. Something external isn't a solution for what is internal to them but they may think it is.

There's a desperate emotional "need" on their part to have what they believe is the solution but the solution, whatever it is becomes a temporary fix. Thus the pattern- they have to have the marriage, the new car, the vacation, the whatever is on their mind as a need because they perceive it as the thing that will fix everything.

It's not "wrong" to want to marry someone. The faulty thinking is seeing marriage as the solution to their own emotional distress or you going into marriage for the purpose of easing your partner's distress when you don't really want to marry them. Marriage isn't a solution to someone's problems. It's also not "wrong" to choose to not marry someone. It's not helping or being kind to someone to marry them if you don't want to do that.

Whatever you choose, do it with purpose and thought on your part- as marriage is a major decision.

I could have written your post. We all were enlisted into emotional caretaking BPD mother- and my father was her enabler. I agree with having some boundaries on your doing this as an adult, but how you go about this, and the reaction from your parents and other family members is something to think carefully about. My experience is a cautionary tale.

I had perceived my BPD mother as the one with the problem and my father as the nice good guy, victim to her behavior. This wasn't accurate. He also was a part of the dynamics between the two of them, a dynamic that was more complex than I realized. Your parents have been doing this for years. This is your father's primary relationship and focus.

Read about the Karpman triangle dynamics. https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle. This helped me to have a framework for the behavior and relationships in the family. BPD mother ( and I believe this is common for pwBPD) was in victim position, Dad as her rescuer. Any perceived threat to BPD mother- real or not- the two would bond together against. BPD mother perceived people as being
"on her side" and "not on her side" and Dad would be on her side. Any distress on her part- real or not- Dad would step in to appease- similarly to finding the college classes and complimenting her as with your mother.

It may appear otherwise but Dad wants this rescuer role as much as BPD mother sees herself as victim. Your father isn't a victim. He's a part of this, even if it is difficult- he could choose to have boundaries too, but he doesn't. I eventually understood his role better when I did work on my own co-dependent/enabling tendencies- these were behaviors that I was raised with- but wanted to change.

Next, look at family systems. I don't have a specific article to post but reading about it I saw that families operate as a unit. If there's a disordered person in the family, other members take on certain roles to keep the family in balance. The roles may be disordered too- like children being enlisted as co- emotional caretakers- but they are functional within the family unit. If one person changes their role, the other members will feel discomfort. First, they will attempt to get the "offender" family member back into their role. If that isn't effective, they may then oust or exclude that family member and form a new balanced family unit. This may help explain the behavior of other family members when you consider changing yours.

I think you are on the right track with your own therapy and how you interact in relationships. I have done this too, and also with attention to enabling behavior and boundaries. All this is good work. However, keep in mind that you have had some recovery and are interacting in new emotionally healthier ways with people, you know better, but your parents, and also possibly your siblings, have not changed.

So back to boundaries- yes to boundaries but "pick your battles". I did have boundaries with BPD mother- over the boundaries that were important to me. One was that she was beginning to enlist my own children as emotional caretakers to her. She could be verbally and emotionally abusive. Protecting my own kids, and my own emotional well being was a boundary to keep.

The other was Dad's well being. He got sick and she was in charge of his care. I intervened thinking I was doing this in Dad's best interest. What actually happened was that I unknowingly stepped into the Karpman triangle, which I didn't know about yet. I also was stressed, upset myself, and emotional over the situation. I loved my father and thought we had a good relationship but the dynamics with my mother were stronger than anything else.

BPD mother disliked boundaries. She was angry at my having them. I did have words with her, something I usually avoided doing as it resulted in her reacting even more but we don't have as much self control during stressful situations. A "normal" parent would have understood that the situation was difficult for all family members too. But BPD mother, could only see the situation from victim perspective, and she reacted. Dad took her side "against" me. She rallied other family members to her side as well.

What I didn't realize until I naively stepped into this dynamic is that- the whole family system relied on each of us maintaining our roles. If we didn't- BPD mother reacted and the result, is that this increased Dad's discomfort in the relationship and he felt the need to fix it. The very same dynamic you see if your mother has an issue, real or not, she reacts, Dad becomes uncomfortable, steps in to fix it- and also enlists others to do so.

I don't regret having boundaries with BPD mother. They were necessary. I don't regret standing up for my father's well being, but I didn't realize how much of a reaction that would elicit. If I were to do it differently- it would have been with more knowlege of the dynamics in their relationship and family dynamics, and also how my own emotional reaction to BPD mother added to the drama in ways I didn't imagine.

My mother's extended family would compliment her like your father asked her too. It seemed strange to us- they'd rave about her doing what we think of as ordinary things as if she did something amazing. But there was the same imbalance in the family as yours. BPD mother did attend college but her extended family members had careers and she didn't. I don't know how aware they were of what they were doing but somehow they knew that this helped to keep the peace with her.

My best advice to you is to have boundaries but pick your battles and know that what you are stepping into when you change your behavior in the family could be bigger than what you expect. I don't suggest you continue to have no boundaries and appease your mother- but to proceed with caution.

This also depends on how close you live to your parents and how often/long you visit. Sometimes going along with the dynamics and not rocking the boat over a short visit is the path you want to take. Sometimes holding a boundary even though there will be a reaction is necessary.

You decide but know, your parents aren't going to change their pattern. Still, you have changed your behavior for the better, and are going to change the cycle for yourself, your own relationships, and that is a good thing.

Hello and welcome to the family! 

Let's start with your question- you are not the problem.  The problem is mental illness and BPD is generally the worst for people that are the closest to the person with mental illness.  His family wouldn't see that and they might not understand it either.  There's no use arguing with them over it.

How old are you and your husband?

For the fabricated memories, he's telling "his truth" and it's not necessarily how anyone else would see it.  There's no use arguing over that either because that's the crux of the mental illness.  He always feels like a victim and arguing only makes things worse since he feels rejected.

Let me ask; what are you doing for your mental health?  Is there a friend, neighbor, or family member you regularly talk to?  Accepting his abusive behavior is not okay, and you need to take some space when things start to get out of hand.

Hi, so my husband was supposed to be diagnosed with bpd but some how the doctor didnt do it. My threapist actually alerted both of us to his diagnosis. I got him into intensive care he stopped yelling at me, he was discharged and he still treats me like im a villain. Aleays says I never listen or do what he asks, wont talk kindly to me when he us mad. Probably the worst is his memory is above my own and he fabricated things in his favor. He does more stuff but thats just what I thought of right now.
I want to stay with him but I also don't want to think im crazy, none of his family believes he has bpd because he was normal before me. Am I the problem?
 

Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm very sorry we're meeting under these circumstances but I'm glad you found us and shared a little bit of your journey.

For your specific example, I would actually take dad's side (even though the basis is 100% off).  There's no harm in telling your mom to take a few classes, that she's smart and capable enough to get back in school.

Now, I understand you don't want to because it's not about the topic at hand, it's a 24/7 cesspool of validating needs that are never quite enough.

At their core, BPDs need to feel needed.  And almost 100% of your mom's rants aren't over schooling or whatever, they're protests that she's not feeling needed, validated, etc in the moment.  He rant over schooling probably has nothing to do with anything and she's probably already forgot about it.  Now there's a new pressing need, and tomorrow there will be another.

Here's the thing though, when you "opt out" of that conversation, now you're proving your mom's delusions inside her mind that she's actually not needed or appreciated.  So for me, it's easier to just say, "You're smart and capable, go back to college if that's what you need."  Because what could she say after that?  Either she does it or she doesn't, but it's 100% her fault from that point forward.

Because that's the thing, your mom will never complain about what actually matters.  Why?  If she said that she didn't feel needed, and you say, "Nope mom, you're not," then that would break her in ways she couldn't recover from.  So it's always something else in an attempt to receive that same validation in less healthy ways. 

All I can say is God bless your dad.  I've been there and I did the same thing, having zero clue what was actually going on (because I was too close to the situation and too all-in on marriage).  She ultimately left me in the end to have an affair, so I hope and pray your dad doesn't end up in the same position.  I can see so clearly now that I enabled so much and accepted so much that I shouldn't have, but I don't regret it since I did it out of love and faith.

I hope that helps!

When your son isn't acting like your son, he's thinking in a disordered way.  You're trying to follow his thoughts and actions logically...or in an ordered way of thinking.  And you never find the answers because you're comparing apples to oranges.

When he's disordered, the logic part of his mind shuts off...or at least becomes much less dominant...and he has delusions of why the world is a cold, dark place.  The real problem is mental illness, he's thinking in a harmful way.  But he can't accept that so he looks for other things to blame.  It must be the neighbor's dog, it must be my boss at work, it must be my crappy car, etc.

Then the disordered thinking goes to another level.  If it wasn't for the neighbor's dog, I wouldn't have to drive that crappy car.  It's all the neighbor's fault, he's ruining my life and making everything so complicated.  So he begins to observe the neighbor to build "proof" of his disordered thinking.  Oh look, he left his trash cans in the road, that proves everything!  Now I know for a fact that he bought that annoying dog just to ruin my life (....and it somehow forces me to keep driving this crappy car).

Does that make sense?  If you're mentally ill, you rely more on feelings in the moment than logic.  I feel bad, so the world is bad and I don't want to be here.  Or the opposite, I'm feeling great so the world is perfect and I'm fully in control.  Neither is true or logical, even though it might FEEL THAT WAY in the moment.

I hope that helps.

My BPD ex wife (of 23 years) was always running to rescue someone.  My 26 year old BPD daughter does exactly the same thing.  As long as they're off saving the world, they feel validated.

For my ex, that could be he brother needing help with their lawn.  Her other brother needing money or food.  Her parents fixing a leaky pipe.  The neighbor trying to find a home for a stray dog.  It really didn't matter what, she was always running towards something.  "But they need me," she'd say as she cancelled our weekend plans or explained why she was getting home at 11 PM for the third night in a row.

Over time, my wife was on the run more and more, there was always something to do or someone to save.  But what she was really doing was running away from our marriage.  Not that it was bad, mind you, but because she just didn't want to face growing as a couple and dealing with what we needed to do.

For instance, we had to replace a porch railing on some stairs.  I bought the lumber, but the wood, and just needed an extra set of hands to put everything together in place.  This weekend we'll do it, I promise.  But months went by, every Saturday and Sunday there was an emergency somewhere, something else she had to do.  Six months went by, and then a year.  Still zero time to help me at our home, even though she's out there "saving the world" and "solving everyone's problems."

For your situation, you're correct in your wife's hero complex.  As I said, my wife and kid both have it as well.  You can use that to your advantage though in needing your wife in a different way.  Show her you want to cook with her, plan with her, handle finances with her, etc.  Make her feel indispensable, because that's how a marriage should feel.

But at the same time, the narcissist attacks must stop.  Make clear boundaries- you want to do life with her, but you don't want the fighting and drama.  It's so hard to find the balance but it is possible.