Hi there,

I think that to someone with BPD, many things in life feel like trauma.  And when faced with "trauma," their reactions seem generally extreme, over-the-top and impulsive--they seem not to consider the longer-term consequences.  An example might be that a conversation about shared living expenses feels to them like exploitation, a break-up, betrayal, not caring, totally unfair.  Another example might be that perceived slowness in responding to a text might be considered rude, inattention, unloving--even if there's a plausible justification (you were very busy, driving or asleep at the time).  A pwBPD tends to go overboard with reactions; his response is not a proprotionate one.  He might get raging mad and threaten to break up with you, to try to get you to do his bidding.  He might stonewall you.  He might just yell at you until you relent and give him what he demands.  I think that deep down, he knows he's behaving poorly, which induces a deep shame.  So what does he do?  In his mind he distorts fact patterns, and creates a new version of events where YOU are blamed for whatever happened, so that he can feel better about himself and his behavior.

I guess I'm trying to say that his version of events can be highly distorted and self-serving, usually to blame-shift and avoid feelings of shame.  I think that lying isn't uncommon with BPD.  But with BPD, they can feel "justified" in twisting the truth, because their pain is too intense for them to handle.  It's almost like they look to the world to explain their pain, and they narrow in on perceived grievances while ignoring everything else that happened if it doesn't fit the traumatic victim narrative.  I think this is the black-and-white lens through which they interpret the world--they just don't see the whole picture, and they don't relate the entire story reliably, either.  I think that since they believe the narrative (typically a victim or blame-shifting narrative), they think they are justified, and it's not lying.  And here's the other thing--I think when deep down they know they're lying, they retreat in avoidance.  Avoidance is easier than taking responsibilility.  Over time, he may try to re-connect with you and pretend like nothing happened, hoping that you'll forget about the lie(s).  Sound familiar?  That's typical BPD in my experience.  I could ask the forum the question if the pwBPD in their life ever apologizes.  I think I know what the answer will be in most cases.

I generally agree that after having lived with someone diagnosed with BPD, and knowing someone with undiagnosed NPD, that I've probably grown to recognize some dysfunctional behaviors and patterns.  The thing is though, many BPD behaviors are normal human ones--fear of abandonment, blaming others, anger, feeling needy and self-centered, acting out when under stress, being impatient and impulsive, negative thinking, saying mean things that are regretable, thinking about suicide, questioning one's true identity.  By the same token, what I see with BPD is near-constant volatility in relationships and general dysfunction, not just in one aspect of life, but across multiple dimensions:  home life, work life (if any), romantic and platonic relationships, spending/economics, daily habits, etc.  I also see extremes--for example what usually wouldn't bother a healthy person very much or for very long, seems blown out of proportion to a person with BPD.  The frequency, intensity and duration of emotional reactions generally seem extreme in BPD.  Many aspects of their personality seem intense--the intensity of their emotions, the intensity of their responses, the intensity of their relationships, even the intensity of their thinking and language (perceiving things in all black or all white, but overwhelmingly in a negative light).  Many things seem exaggerated with them, including and especially their stories and explanations of their past.  For me, pwBPD seem to be constantly traumatized by life.  Relating with someone with BPD or NPD feels like emotional whiplash--not steady, reliable, predictable, dependable or safe.  For whatever reason, Katy Perry's lyrics for Hot n Cold just popped into my head when writing this.

Now I will say that I've encountered all sorts of high-conflict people, and some of the skills learned here have been really helpful in relating with them.

Hi hotchip,

There’s something in what you wrote that really stood out to me, especially the part where you wondered if the integrity you saw might have been a reflection of your own values.

That’s actually a really important shift.

One thing I’ve come to see is that it’s not necessarily about reducing someone to a label or a disorder. People are more complex than that. Someone can have real qualities, moments of integrity, even genuine care.

At the same time, when the patterns around truth, accountability, and consistency keep shifting, it becomes very hard to build something stable, no matter what qualities are there underneath.

I think that’s where a lot of the confusion comes from. In a healthy relationship, when something doesn’t make sense, you can usually talk it through and land somewhere consistent. In situations like this, the “rules” keep changing - what was true yesterday isn’t true today, and words and actions don’t line up long enough to hold onto.

So it makes sense that your mind keeps trying to reconcile it.

Over time, what helped me wasn’t trying to figure out who they “really” were underneath it all, but noticing what stayed consistent on my side:
- what I believed a relationship meant 
- how I showed up 
- what I was willing to tolerate, and eventually what I wasn’t 

The part you said about the good qualities possibly being yours… I think there’s a lot of truth in that. The capacity for integrity, care, and reflection didn’t disappear - it’s still with you.

And that can become a much more stable reference point than trying to make sense of someone else’s shifting reality.

It makes sense that you’re grieving. That realization about “the person you thought you knew” is a hard one, and a lot of people here recognize it.

You’re starting to separate what was yours from what wasn’t, and that’s not easy - but it’s a really important step forward.

If it's any help, my BPD ex-wife remarried (after an affair with said person and ending the marriage suddenly) and I almost don't recognize anything about her anymore.  It's like our life together just stopped existing and now she's into completely different music, different hobbies, different everything. 

It sounds like you've gone above and beyond to be the voice of reason in very unfair circumstances.  Good for you!  But at the same time, his true character has been revealed after he's cheated multiple times during multiple relationships...then blames the faithful partner. 

That's my story as well so I can relate, and several years later the one thing that still sticks with me is that I chose to take the high road.  I could have been just as ugly back then, but that's not who I was and I did not allow her betrayals to change who I am to today.  Like you, I tried to help and my efforts simply weren't enough. 

That's not a knock on me (or you) though and I've grown considerably because of the experience.  It's unfortunate we had to go through that, but there will be a time when you're thankful for it and you can see the relationship for what it was- caring for a mentally ill person the best you could.

PeteWitsend, thank you. This was important for me to hear:

"you continue to take his claims at face value, rather than assume that he may be lying, or stretching the truth in each case."

In fact, it now turns out he almost certainly cheated on me with the mutual friend, and lied to my face about it. A possibility I had previously excluded because surely he wouldn't do that.

I would love some tips on how to re-frame my perceptions so I simply do not expect truth or internal coherence in this issue.

Mutt, thank you again for your presence. The hardest thing is the shocking, horrible realisation the person I thought I knew simply didn't exist, or not in the way I thought they did. It was a flimsily assembled mirror of me in the relationship, which has fallen apart now the relationship is over.

Another thing I have realised is... I saw X act with integrity at various points during the relationship - during the relationship. And this is really important to me - doing what you say and saying what you do.

But before the relationship, and now after, he acted with quite a bit of non-integrity and inconsistency.

What if much of the integrity itself was... mirroring my values?

It's a frightening thought, but also maybe a comforting one. If the positive qualities were a reflection of my own actions and desires, then they remain with me now - I have not lost anything.

One thing I’ve noticed is that crises don’t create these dynamics, they expose them.

Things can look normal when everything’s quiet, but stress tends to bring the real patterns out pretty quickly.

Reading your post, it strikes me that you're making a fundamental mistake up front: you assume you know your X's motives and thoughts too well, and you continue to take his claims at face value, rather than assume that he may be lying, or stretching the truth in each case.

pwBPD are so notoriously unreliable, and have such a self-serving and temporary perspective of the world that you'll drive yourself insane trying to make sense of it all.  The same action you do can leave them happy, and then five minutes later castigating you for being selfish.  You have to realize you're trying to make sense of a disordered mind; once you accept that, you can understand that it was nothing you did, and nothing you could have done to change the end result, make them happy, or preserve the relationship.   

Methuen- I have some thoughts about why the work of settling your mother's affairs is so emotionally heavy. It's a continuation of the relationship. I think in "normal" situations, there are still the tasks to be done, but the relationship itself- there was more to it, and the person is grieving the loss of that.

Doing tasks for your mother didn't stop when she passed and if that was a main aspect of the relationship, then the relationship is still continuing. Maybe this is also a part of why the grief is complicated.

This is similar to my BPD mother who also felt entitled- from everyone. She did find her Prince Charming, who provided for her, quite well. She was very attractive and paid attention to her appearance. While this may be in part due to some NPD it also was a means of achievement her era- a husband/provider was the goal of women in that time.

Still, if women didn't work outside the home, they still did the work in the home of managing the home and raising children. I consider that to be work too as I have done at times, done both, stay at home mother, and the work force. For BPD mother though, she did neither.

This is what astounded me. That someone would just be OK with not reciprocating, not contributing. I couldn't do that. If my H was the main wage earner, it was important to me to contribute to the family too. Yet, it didn't seem to bother BPD mother that she didn't. Dad provided her with the Carrie Bradshaw life and she seemed to feel entitled to it.

BPD, with some NPD could be the explanation for her but it didn't explain my father, how or why he tolerated this, but he did. We know now that this is a  pairing between two people. I think it may be a bit more difficult these days to find this kind of arrangement, but it can happen.

I think it's a normal wish for a young adult to want to find a partner and settle down, have a family. It's reasonable that someone with BPD wants that too. Perhaps the difference is how they go about it and behave in their relationships. CC43, It makes sense that your SD wants what she wants, but the expectations and how she relates to people are different.

For you, CC43, the decision is how will you respond to this? I can't say for all pwBPD, but for my mother, this was who she is. Whatever anyone did to try to get her to "see" their side of things, it didn't work. She also remained in victim perspective, feeling that others wronged her, even if they didn't do anything of the sort. She didn't seem to make the connection between her behavior and the reaction or consequences of it.

One decision is how much will you give to this relationship? For those of us who do reciprocate in a relationship, I think we see it though our own perspective. It's difficult to imagine someone who doesn't think like we do. For me, the decision was about how to balance my own values and boundaries and it isn't done to perfection. Although I think we may still have some wish, even if it is magical thinking, that we'd have a way to make the relationship "normal", that is different from expectations.

Yes, that's exactly what the pwBPD in my life will say:  "I don't care."  It's probably the most common phrase she utters in my presence.  Coming in second are words about feeling rejected or mistreated somehow.

I'm pretty sure her diagnosis was "BPD with narcissistic avoidant traits," or something along those lines.  Perhaps the touch of narcissism explains the seeming lack of concern for other people's feelings.  But with the pwBPD in my life, I see the narcissistic side manifest primarily in her obsession with looks, as well as in generalized entitlement.  The sense of entitlement isn't limited to immediate family, but extends more broadly.  It seems she expects for the world to cater to her needs too much, such as for a landlord to rent her an apartment when she doesn't have a job, employers to respond to her online profile with high-paying/low-stress job offers, Prince Charmings to sweep her off her feet, and the world to "discover" her as a supermodel/famous artist/actress/Youtube influencer, without having to do any work first, let alone be realistic about her talents and chances of success.  Since her expectations of a Carrie Bradshaw lifestyle clash with reality, she's constantly disappointed, which causes her significant distress.  I guess the way to describe it is she expects the world to come to her.  It's like the world is responsible for satisfying her needs and making her happy, and yet she seems oblivious to the notion that SHE is responsible for herself, SHE's the one who has to make things happen in her life.  Since she's passive and entitled, she's constantly disappointed, feeling angry and alienated and like a victim, blaming the world (primarily her family and any roommates) for her problems.  I guess I always come back to the notion that the victim attitude is the worst part of BPD, because it makes her feel powerless and not responsible for herself.  If she's not responsible, she can't "care" about how she makes other people feel, let alone apologize, let alone make things right.  She's too angry, frustrated, disappointed, negative--feeling REJECTED by the world--and she lashes out because of it.