Hi Sweetly,

I'd hate to see your SIL ruin Thanksgiving for everyone else in your family.  I think I'd risk it, attend the event and keep a close eye on the two-year-old, not allowing your SIL to get near.  At 8/9, I think your other kids are old enough to heed your instructions not to be alone with SIL.  Plus, they'll probably want to hang out with any other kids anyway.  If the kids peel off to entertain themselves, maybe you or your husband decide to "chaperone."  Alternatively, maybe you insist the kids stay within earshot: "You can watch a movie/play a game any day, but today is a special family day and I want you to stay with me and socialize with your cousins."  Maybe you give them kitchen tasks so you can keep a closer eye on them at all times.
 
If your SIL is that angry, chances are she might not even show up on Thanksgiving.  If she does show up, maybe she'll behave because there are many witnesses.  If she does have a meltdown, maybe she'll storm off, and the rest of the family can shake it off and continue with the festivities.  If she becomes hostile to you or the kids, and if nobody intervenes to try to calm things down, you're free to make an excuse and leave, hoping to avert a scene.  Maybe you "set the stage" for a possible quick exit by stating beforehand you have another house to visit that day, or that your toddler will need to go home early for a nap.

I know this is not ideal.  I guess I've come to the point of being sick and tired bending over backwards, walking on eggshells and accommodating inappropriate behavior on holidays because of BPD.  I guess my boundary is that when it comes to family, especially holidays which are about togetherness, I'm not allowing the pwBPD to isolate me.  If she has a meltdown, she has a meltdown, and I let her go ahead and have one.  I know it's hard on the kids, but so is isolating them from the rest of the family.

Just my two cents.  Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

Hi White Rose,

I think your screen name stands for a fresh start and eternal love, which is fitting.  Welcome to the boards.  I'd invite you to take a look at some posts, and I imagine you'll read many themes which resonate.  There are countless stories here of years of tumultuous relationships, feeling shell-shocked, worrying, trying to get help, depression, resentment, alienation and grief.  Though each kid is different, there can be some predictable patterns of behavior with BPD.  Let me guess:  your daughter is excessively needy and struggling to make her way as an adult, even though she's smart and seemingly capable in many ways.  Her negative outlook, victim attitude and wild emotions sabotage her, as she destroys every important relationship in her life.  Sometimes I think the worst part of BPD is the victim attitude, because it renders her powerless over her life!  She's so busy feeling aggrieved and traumatized, while blaming everyone else for her all problems, that she can't find a way to move herself forward.  She just can't get past the past.  She feels so angry and resentful that she can't even think straight, and her wild accusations seem increasingly inappropriate, even delusional.  Sometimes she'll completely shut down and shut out everyone, and though that provides a little respite from the chaos she creates, you're scared because you don't have contact.  Does that sound about right?

I guess one of the key tips here is to take care of yourself first.  You're no good to your daughter if you are a mess, a complete basket case, seeing everything through a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  You didn't cause your daughter's BPD (no matter how much she accuses you), and you can't cure it.  Only your daughter can decide to get help (and take it seriously).  It is possible to turn things around, but your daughter has to be the one to decide to do that for herself.  In the meantime, I think you should take exquisite care of YOU.  If you need therapy, then go get it.  If you need a break, then take it, and in a few days or weeks you can re-assess.  In fact, I think you should model for your daughter what a healthy adult's life looks like, and that means taking care of you first, as well as having some fun, including pursuit of hobbies and having a social life.  How does that sound?

Thanksgiving can be a day long affair with relatives dropping in at different times, sometimes going to more than one celebration. Could you arrange to be at your MIL's when your SIL is not there, possibly receive a phone call after she has left?

There are so many reasons why we work so hard to fix relationships that can't be fixed even when we barely know the person. Some examples: 1) Growing up in a family in which the parents' needs were the priority instead of the children's. How we are treated by our family of origin (FOO) is the core of who we are. When we are abused, this is a life long sorrow. It is natural to hope our family will genuinely make amends at some time, whereas with less important relationships we can more easily move on. 2) Wanting to never treat anyone as badly as we were treated. 3) Wanting to give back and not judge others too harshly. Most of my life, I was indeed not a very nice person most of the time, because my role models for how to treat others were so flawed. I am very appreciative of people who took the time to help me. I am always pleasantly surprised at who I can help and saddened by those people who there seems to be no hope for. I am sure that for many years, there were people who though I had a personality disorder.

Gosh....I say "welcome" but....also, sorry you have to be in this club!  My pwBPD (daughter) was diagnosed about 3 years ago (I will save you the saga, as my story is not nearly as painful as some....she has ghosted our family & I hear from hear when she needs something (I probably sound "non-chalant"....I have talked about it SO much, I am just at the "Jesus Take The Wheel" point!) what has helped me....I joined NAMI (National Associational Mental (can't remember the I), (strongly recommend reading (ironically, pwBPD suggested these:) Stop Walking On Eggshells and I Hate You Don't Leave Me; I found a therapist who deals with parents of children with BPD; my main suggestion, try to hold onto your JOY (it has taken my 3 years of crying every holiday, birthday, etc.) and never blame yourself (I poured over pictures, cards, (how did I not SEE this?) I hope that helps a little? please feel free to reach out, if you like!  Good luck!

I didn't think my BPD mother would be a deliberate physical danger to my kids- but I also didn't trust she had the capacity to actually be an adult with them. It's similar to why I wouldn't leave my kids with a 6 year old to watch them. The 6 year old wouldn't hurt them on purpose but isn't emotionally mature or responsible enough to be left alone with kids. In this situation, it was not safe to have them alone with my mother.

The potential danger was emotional. I knew she wouldn't act out in front of them but she would enlist them as her emotional caretakers and also triangulate with them against me or other family members. It's not a child's job to make an adult feel better about themselves. I didn't want to put the kids in that situation.

It was easy to not leave them alone with her when they were little and needed supervision. She didn't have an interest in dealing with small children- arguing, diapers, getting into things. Other adults were always there. It was when they were older and not needing this kind of supervision that she would try to get them to be alone with her. Again, I didn't fear overtly abusive behavior- but was concerned she'd confide in them, put them in an emotional caretaker position.

We had a secret buddy rule with the older kids. Don't go off with BPD mother alone. This was easy to do because they didn't want to be alone with her. It's not that she did anything to them to make them feel this way but they sensed her poor boundaries, her emotional needs and felt uncomfortable. So they stayed together as a group and mostly I was with them too.

Same with phone calls. If we called her from home, I put her on speaker phone. She would get angry at this. She wanted one on one with them. I never mentioned the boundaries but she could perceive this.

They are adults now. When they got cell phones, I didn't give the numbers to BPD mother but she got them anyway from other people and would call them, also somehow seemingly pleased when she got around the boundary. At this point, they had their own boundaries and I left it up to them. One didn't mind communicating with her, another child didn't want to.

Having a hard- NC - boundary with BPD mother would have been a huge issue making it hard to get together as a family at all. I wanted to avoid a big dramatic issue like that. I never mentioned the soft boundaries to her. We just did it. I discussed mental illness and BPD with the kids at the age of young teens - of course they knew to not mention this to her. I wanted them to understand this about her and also about why it was a challenging relationship for me. It's not "normal" to have these boundaries with a mother. I didn't want them to think I was being mean or neglectful to her.

I think you are correct to trust your gut and have some boundaries in place- that you can be comfortable with whatever they are. Your children are your #1 priority here. You can also gage your SIL's effect on them by their emotional reactions. If they don't want to be around her much- that tells you something. Also frequency makes a difference. If it's just once in a while, the effect is less. We didn't live near my mother and so visits were not as frequent as if we did.

However, the boundaries I had with my kids took into consideration that my BPD mother would not be physically abusive to them. If that was a possibility, I'd have avoided all contact with her. I knew this because, she could be verbally and emotionally abusive but she wasn't physically abusive. If you have any concerns of physical harm, then do what you need to do to keep your kids safe.

You also have the added concern of the cousins. I'd be mindful of behavioral issues on their part. Not that it's inevitable. We were good kids in general and hung out with our cousins who didn't have a BPD mother. None of us did anything "bad" but I think it was about equal for us when it came to being silly and mischevious sometimes (kid stuff) . But watch out for any possible behavior issues.












 

Not sure what to write just yet. I'll just say that my other daughter and I just had a 3-hour long conversation about her sister, they're both adults by the way. Bottom line, BPD fits. I'm a bit in shock, have been in denial, and now I am ready to move forward.

Lots of tears, lots of anger and frustration over the years... for everyone involved. The future is scary; will she ever be able to live without those extreme emotions? How can I help her, support her? You know, all the usual feelings and questions.

Anyway, I just found this site, registered and then was asked for my 1st post.

See you all around, I will start looking around here and read now...

This- exactly. Even from a young age, I recall thinking "I won't treat other people like this" and so I do overcompensate without expecting reciprocity but then, I do have expectations and can be disappointed. I think I over value some relationships and hope the other person will reciprocate that value but now, I realize that may be one sided on my part. Yet, I tend to not see it, probably because, I don't want to, until it becomes too obvious not to.

And to loop back to the relationships here- this may be why some of us are so tenacious with these difficult relationships. Other people may have let go of them early on in the dating stage.

Is it dangerous for my kids to be around my SIL with BPD, after about a year of no contact? My SIL came into the family a few years ago, I was welcoming and we built a connection until she decided I was "pure evil," etc., all from things that were innocent or even from things that had nothing to do with me. I finally realized we were not in the land of logic or reason, and quit trying to JADE. She always yelled at me via text, and I finally said we have to "work it out" (haha) via phone or not at all... more angry texts until I told her I will respect that she is choosing not to work things out.

We have a 2, 8, and 9-year-old, whom she was always syrupy sweet to, but also always removed from me to be private with them as much as possible. She loved pushing that boundary even when we were on good terms. Our yearlong no contact was purely for the sake of avoiding something the kids cannot unhear about their mom or otherwise. We have coached them up that she is sick and confused about reality, but the whole family is scared of her so we have no idea what others or her poor 12 year-old son would say to my kids.

My MIL has huge family get togethers where all of my husbands' side attend. We miss them dearly as we religiously were present for these. Supposedly she hasn't had one until this coming Thanksgiving. SIL was typically enraged anytime anyone said anything kind to me or my kids- as things stand everyone misses us, where everyone is also trying to avoid her as much as possible. So I predict this will be a very enraging event for her.

Is it safe to "grey rock" and attend, or are my kids in physical danger? What about emotional damage? Last time she scooped up my then 1-year-old the first moment I looked away and immediately left the house and took her outside, where no one was. And things have turned much more sour since then! We can prep them for her (or uncle or cousin) trying to take them aside, etc., but can we really prevent that? MIL is desperately afraid of her, as she has taken the kids from her and even my BIL before, and so my MIL will literally do anything she wants to appease her, even if it is not in my kids' best interest (this has been the most painful blow of the whole experience actually!)

We want to let her steal as little as possible from us, but not at the risk of safety for my kids (or physical safety for me). SO grateful for this community of experienced people, I greatly appreciate your time.

Notwendy,
You are genuinely interested in other people, really seem to hit the nail on the head most of the time when understanding another person's feelings and how to help him or her. I never want to treat another human being as badly as I was treated, so I tend to overcompensate by listening too much to other people without requiring some kind of healthy reciprocity. I also will not participate in the abuse of another people. So let's say our intense radar from growing up in a family with a mother with BPD who is enabled by most of the people she is surrounded by does determine our wanting to treat others with kindness and respect in addition to not ever being a flying monkey. I do get triggered when I suddenly get mistreated by a complete stranger. I was in the grocery store check out line the other day, and there was a basket on the check out counter unattended. I waited until  the clerk was close to finished ringing up the person in front of me, before I moved ahead. Then the owner of the basket came with several items and demanded to move ahead of me. I refused and she was livid. I later decided that I was not in the wrong as the check out line is for people who have finished shopping. If she had had one defective item, the clerk, could have taken her basket and decided to wait until she came back. I thought most people would have not done what I did. I just am not an enabler of bad behavior most of the time. Both you and I know how harmful and hurtful the flying monkeys can be, especially to children who do not have the same choices that an adult has.