I know my father considered it although it was BPD mother who made the most threats- empty ones. While I think my father had the sense to not discuss this with kids, because of the conflicts- at home where we saw them, and BPD mother's threats, I eventually asked him. As kids, at about 9-10 like yours, we really didn't know enough to ask.

From a parents' perspective, it must have felt shocking to have a teen daughter ask pointed questions, but BPD mother was bringing up their relationship issues. That was not appropriate but we heard it.

I know there was more to it but being confronted, he did say some. I had no idea at the time how unable to manage on her own she was. It was well hidden and Dad's support covered a lot of it up. He didn't reveal it either, he must have known.

Some of his responses were probably covers for the situation. He sometimes said it was too expensive but so was BPD mother and her uncontrolled spending. At one point he mentioned doing this and letting her find someone else. She was very attractive and now I see that would have been the only way she could have managed.

But he also did love her in a way- and when she could pull herself together, she was very charming. Sometimes he appeared smitten with her. The push pull I think also gave him some hope. It's also possible that there was less stress once we kids were grown and out of the house, and he didn't have the parenting duties in addition to her. By our teens, we were very self sufficient. However she remained a challenge.

I think he did feel trapped but I think a part of that was feeling responsible for her. The stress on him was apparent, even if he didn't talk about it. He was irritable at times and snapped at us. It was different when he was alone with us, he was more relaxed and engaged.

He did feel responsible for us kids and in her era, custody went to the mother. She would have pulled it together in court. Also in their era, many women didn't work outside the home. She had no work experience, and was unable to function in a job even if she did. I think he felt responsible for her.

Where things unravelled was when he got sick in his elder years and she didn't have as much of his supervision and emotional support. That is when I saw the full extent of it. Knowing he was very ill, I did bring up concerns about how she could manage on her own. I offered to help manage their finances as I knew she'd mismanage them. She refused. Eventually she did mismanage them. I had to have boundaries with her but stay in contact with her and was the next of kin contact in her elder years.  Fortunately there was enough funds left to cover her care facility.

My own take on this is that what is best for your own mental health is the best for the kids. If staying together leaves you stressed and drained, then that affects the kids too. They are going to see their mother's behavior whether you stay or not. If you do stay for the long run, be prepared for all the stages of this. As difficult as divorce is, if it did come to that, there might be resources in place for your wife that she is on SSI which could make her eligible for Medicaid in her elder years if needed.

One thought is to seek out this kind of information- what is she eligible now and later, even if it doesn't come to that. I did seek this out for my BPD mother- what are the options for her care if there are any. While the elder years are a ways off for you two, having the information itself may help you with plans whatever direction you choose.

Projection and shame avoidance- and denial, are an aspect of BPD. Also they tend to see themselves in victim position. Telling them directly about their behavior is likely to be projected.

BPD affects all relationships and while romantic relationships may be most affected due to the closeness, it impacts others- family, friends, employment. What makes this difficult is that they can perceive an issue as being done to them. So it is possible that a classroom of 12-14 year olds will test boundaries and that can get out of hand if the teacher has poor boundaries or lacks the emotional maturity to deal with it. The pwBPD who has interpersonal issues is more likely to perceive an issue as being done to them. "The kids are bad kids" rather than to see the larger picture.

It's hard to see it when you are the one being accused and in a close relationship. You want your partner to think well of you. Where I saw this more objectively was in my mother's elder years where she'd say how terrible the aide, or nurse, or doctor is and I knew them and they weren't terrible. She had one helper who she complained about but when I met the helper, she was wonderful.

It's better to handle if you see projections as being about them, not you, and not take it as personally albeit, it is still hard to do, but it does help.

Wendy - I often think about what you have said about your dad.  I'm wondering if he felt trapped in a way.  Had he filed for divorce, what would have happened?  Do you think your mom would have been capable of at least some level of self-reliance?  From what you have said, it sounds like maybe not.  Do you think your dad considered that route, but didn't go that direction because of that fear?

Zachira- I understand and I also feel similarly- like not having many friends. I think it is connected to our upbringing. In ACA groups (which include dysfunction not only alcohol in the family) one of the issues we have as adult children is to isolate ourselves.

I think because we tend to be aware of the emotions of others, being around a lot of people a lot can be tiring. Being alone is a way to feel the most emotionally safe. Too much of it is lonely.

I know I need to work at making more friends but rather than force it- I do things that may lead to that. I joined a work out class for women and have met people there. Any activity that brings people together is a chance to meet people. It's hard to put yourself out there and work at making a friend but if you join a group where there's common interest with yours, it will put you in a place with other people. Accept yourself about what works for you. I have a friend who has a wide circle of friends and likes to socialize. I like to do some of that. I'm fine with a smaller circle. We don't have to match everything to be friends. The connection is that we have boundaries, common interests. Be yourself Zachira- you are a kind compassionate person and there are people who would be glad to know you.

My BPDw is a teacher.  Well, an on-and-off teacher because she can't keep a job more than a few months.

Her latest job was teaching kids in the 12-14 year old range.  She complained that they cursed at her and called her names.  Definitely unacceptable.  She said she did not have thick enough skin and could not handle the abuse, so she quit.

Were the kids really that abusive?  IDK.  Probably at least a few of them a little bit.  I was that age once, and I can't say students always treated their teachers kindly.  So I don't know how bad things really were.

But what I do know is that W can curse and belittle and call others' names - me, friends, family, our kids.   And she expects us all to accept that she has a mental illness and brush it off.  Does she make the connection somewhere deep inside?  IDK.  But in 14 years I can't think of too many times she has acted truly contrite.  I don't think she remembers her own behavior. 

Another example - she will talk about previous partners who cheated on her, mistreated her, or ghosted her.  But from what I know of her she has probably cheated more than she has been cheated on, and has probably ghosted way more than others have ghosted her.  And those that did ghost her probably felt they had to. 

So yes, I think what you experienced fits well with BPD.

Glad you posted an update. It seems it is working better with the two of you as room mates basically. Is this the plan, at least for now. You stated that if she moves out again, you would consider legal action but that leaves that decision up to her. You saw how that worked out and she isn't able to maintain herself on her own. Should she move out, it would likely be a similar situation as this is her capacity.

She also isn't able to hold a job, however, being on SSI disability, if the two of you weren't married, she would be eligible for Medicaid health insurance or disability Medicare so that concern may have a solution.

However, the idea of your wife- or if it were your ex wife, and the mother of your children being unable to manage on her own is understandbly a concern. I think in the case of divorce, there would be alimony and whether or not that impacts Medicaid/Medicare eligibity, I don't know, but getting SSI would be in that favor.

I think this was also something my father was concerned about, although I was not aware of the extent of my mother's difficulty with functioning until later. The kids are 9, they aren't able to fully comprehend it either. However, you are right that taking on the parenting is in their best interest. Your wife isn't capable of that. My father took that on too, and I can see why he did it. The silver lining to this is that we kids have good memories of outings with Dad- to the park, the Zoo, the movies. It doesn't have to be elaborate or costly. It's the time with you that counts.

Nothing has to be decided at the moment and so being where you are at is the situation now. If this is working well enough that you can manage then no need to change. It seems like this is the situation with the least of chaos and expenses for now.

Typical.  The pendulum can swing to the other extreme almost instantly.  And for no reason that makes sense.  Could be the noise you made while breathing.  Could be that you scratched your leg, or your voice didn't sound right. 

As wendy said - perfection is impossible, because perfection itself is a flaw in their mind. 

Well, I suspect you need to be a little less hard on yourself.  I love to spend time alone!  I enjoy reading, sewing, doing puzzles, studying languages . . . and I think that's completely OK.  But I also enjoy the outdoors, so in summer I go to the beach and car shows, in the fall I go hiking, and in winter I go skiing, even if it's just cross-country skiing in my yard and neighborhood.  If the weather isn't great, I go to the gym instead, where there are tons of other people just like me, trying to get some exercise.

Look, my mom is a widow, and while she spends a lot of time with grandchildren, she also needs a break from them.  Who are her friends?  Well, some are from church, some are from a volunteer organization, and some are from a quilting club.  The quilters make blocks together, and they also go to quilt shows, some which are weekend-long trips.  In addition, she is a regular patron of the local arts, and she goes to several shows and/or concerts every year; I'm pretty sure she gets season tickets.  Sometimes she'll have an extra ticket, which gives her the opportunity to bring along a friend.  She also belongs to a book club, but frankly she says it's too much for her right now, as she doesn't like the pressure of having to read some books she doesn't like.  I told her, that's OK, maybe take a break from the book club this year, because your schedule feels overwhelming right now.

I guess my point is, once you start doing something you enjoy (say, seeing live theater or jazz), when someone asks, How was your week? (or, Do you have any fun plans coming up?), well you go ahead and mention the theater or jazz experience.  Your enthusiasm will shine through, and maybe your acquaintance will say, Hey, I love jazz too, have you ever been to the club in town?  Would you like to check it out sometime?  And there you probably have a new friend, whose focus isn't endless trauma.

Hi there,

I'm really sorry about the escalations your daughter is exhibiting.  My read is that she's increasingly unhinged because she has exhausted all her options.  She might be close to hitting bottom, which would probably explain the "extintion burst," an amping up of behaviors that used to work in her favor, in terms of extracting favors and concessions.  Alas, she probably has to hit bottom before she admits she needs to make some changes and get some professional help.

Much of what you wrote I could have written about my own adult BPD stepdaughter, including bouncing between parental homes as a teen (to whichever parent she hated less), as well as her intelligence and other natural assets.  I wouldn't say my stepdaughter is schizo, but when she was self-medicating with pot daily, she had bouts of paranoia, delusional thinking and dissociative incidents.  In my humble opinion, that was because of the pot.  My other opinion is that heavy pot use, combined with several "lost" years, has noticeably set her back--both emotionally and intellectually.  Since she spent so many years in a dysfunctional funk, she basically missed out on practicing "adulting," when support tends to be higher and the stakes are lower (think internships, college-related activities, etc.).  So now that she's in her late 20s, she's feeling "incompetent" in some ways, and clueless in others, although I think she'll catch up eventually.  For example, recently she tried to sign a lease on her own, and she was devastated to learn that she was rejected, because she had no reliable income.  I think she thought that since she was an adult, she could sign any lease she wanted.  Unfortunately, it seems she always has to learn things "the hard way," with the associated setbacks, which, as you know, can be extremely destabilizing for someone who lacks perspective and mental toughness.

Anyway, your house rules are practically identical to mine.  There was a time when my stepdaughter's only focus in our household was to get therapy and follow doctors' orders, whatever they were at the time.  Then, once she was stabilized and older, the expectation was that she be engaged "full time" through some combination of school, work, training or therapy while living with us for free.  That, and be respectful and pick up after herself.  We didn't expect rent, help with chores or any meaningful contribution to the household.  Basically she had to be committed to working on herself.  She was free to leave if she didn't like the house rules.

Sometimes my stepdaughter would say, "I want to move to New York / Paris / London," and I'd say, "I can see why you'd like that."  Of course, she'd get upset (because her expectation was for us to find and pay for an apartment for her), but I'd stand my ground:  "If you want to go to New York / Paris / London, I'm not stopping you, I can't wait to visit."  Anyway, my point is, parental over-functioning and over-advising needs to stop at some point.  I think that age 26 is about that point.  My unspoken rule right now is to provide advice to my stepdaughter only if she asks for it.  My other unspoken rule is that if she wants something, she has to be the one to make it happen (for the most part), not me, her dad or our savings.  That includes getting therapy by the way.  And if she's committed involuntarily, then she needs to deal with it.  If you step in and "rescue" her, what she learns is that everything is both YOUR responsibility and YOUR fault.

As for false accusations, my stepdaughter has made them too.  A couple of times, she took the accusations too far, and she was challenged:  "That's a lie and you know it."  She changed tack and made allegations that were less specific, to keep us guessing.  However, even if the facts were wildly distorted by her telling of past events, we can't argue with her that she FEELS like her life is an endless series of traumas.  I've just learned to take everything she says with a grain of salt.  And yes, she has wished us dead, believing we deserve to be punished for abusing her.  However, I felt these were just fantasies in the heat of a raging outburst, but that she never really intended to hurt us physically.

As for your daughter's threats of violence, I think you take them seriously if you are frightened.  As in, if your daughter is in your home and pulls a knife on you, then you have to call 911.  If she's depressed and thinking she'd be better off dead, but not actively threatening suicide, you might ask her, "Do you want me to call 911 for you?"  That way, she decides, and if she tells you not to call 911, then you might rest a little easier that she's not actively suicidal in the moment.  And in the process, you've reminded her that help is a phone call away.

It sounds to me like you have strong boundaries in place, and that is commendable.  I also think it's the only way that your stepdaughter will eventually decide to get the help she desperately needs--the sooner the better in my opinion.  Look, we've been mostly estranged from my stepdaughter for a year now, though she'll temporarily break the estrangement to ask for financial, logistical or administrative help.  Basically we asked her to leave our home last year, because she wasn't working on herself.  I bet she feels mistreated, but the upshot is that once she left, she was forced to work on herself.  She did some house-sitting before finding a stable living situation, and then she got a couple of part-time jobs which eventually led to her very first, full-time "career" situation.  Frankly I'm proud of her for that, and I think that getting kicked out was best for everyone actually.

Anyway, my stepdaughter was able to turn her life around after she hit bottom (twice) and finally committed to therapy.  It happened when she was struggling on her own, not when she was acting like she was on "vacation" in our home while doing whatever she wanted.  It was when SHE was the one to take an Uber to the hospital, not when her dad drove her (or in her words, when he "forced" her to go to the hospital).  The good news is that though she still struggles quite a bit, her life looks much, much healthier and functional now than it once did.  And she turned her life around pretty quickly, in the span of about a year and a half.  We still worry about her, almost daily, but it's not a life-and-death kind of worry.

Hope that perspective helps a little.

It is very clear from what you have shared that your stepdaughter is not safe for either you or your husband to be around. From the threats your stepdaughter has made, its sounds like she has both suicidal and homicidal tendencies. Though very few people with severe mental illness are a danger to others, those with suicidal and homicidal  tendencies are indeed very dangerous, especially to close relatives. Do get some professional advice on how best to protect you and your husband.