I want to start out by admitting I am not perfect and have made mistakes in the relationship. We have been broken up since December, and she has been living with my parents since then. She is diagnosed and is somewhat aware she needs help.

I have been stuck in this push-pull for a while where we might hook up, and then she gets mad at me afterward, or she is very flirty with me and then pulls it back. The whole time she will just say, "I don't want it," or, "I just don't feel the same way," when I ask why we can't try again.

The one time she did leave, she called me and said she loved me, and then walked it right back when she came back. There is a lot more that I won't have time to write today.

Pretty much, what can I do? I understand the "easier" path would be to have her leave and go no contact, but I would like to give it one more try because if she leaves, she is going to end up in another terrible situation. I know most of you guys are probably going to say to run and get out of it, but I am open to all positive and negative suggestions. I really want to try to make it work.

Well done.  You see, leaving the phone off when you're busy is a combination of "slow walking" plus prioritizing living your best life.  You're still available, but not on demand.  You'll talk, but when it's convenient for you.  You'll provide emotional support, but not during a ragefest.  In the meantime, you remain more present in your own life.  Plus, you give him more time and space to calm down and figure things out on his own.

I used to hate the crisis calls, seemingly always either in the middle of the night (because my pwBPD tended to sleep the days away), or when I'm on vacation or doing something fun, and a "rescue" ends up ruining the whole thing.  No more!  (That's easier said than done . . . I haven't really had a summer holiday for the last decade, because my pwBPD needed so much "babysitting.")

Also, I relate to phone calls at all hours. He'd need my undivided attention no matter what I was out doing if he was in a major melt down otherwise he'd wait for a call back. I carried my cell phone with me everywhere.  At the worst times I slept with it on vibrate.  I am leaving my phone now when I go outside.  Turn off ringer when I'm driving or eating out. That's a huge step for me.

CC - actually your rambling was helpful. There are times to speak and times to remain silent. I think each situation and each pwbpd is a bit different and we learn as we go. I know #1,

 Zachira - I understand I really do need to protect my peace of mind and not join in with his panic. I used to describe myself as a tuning fork with him.

NotWendy- sharing your experience with your Mom really is helpful.  I see more clearly the cycle of emotions instead of random circumstance driven. Though circumstances do trigger. I like examples of giving responsibility back to my son to manage his life. Thanks

Thank you so very much to everyone who replied to my post with compassion and guidance! I am very grateful to all of you and to this forum. :-)

This is key- it's a cycle of emotions. They build up, there's a crisis, you calm him and then there's another one.

With BPD mother, the crises were like waves in the ocean. One would be resolved- then there's another one. What was confusing is that these crises were often around real situations, making it seem like a true crisis, and in the moment, urgent for her. She had to have "it" (whatever it was) immediately and if not, she'd escalate. So the mix of both an actual crisis sometimes and an emotional one made these confusing.

Because of her age and situation, I did stay on the phone for these emotional crises with her. However, the phone calls were disruptive- they'd come at night, at work, during events, when I was with friends, family, even on trips. Eventually, I had to turn the phone off at night, so to be sure to sleep. BPD mother was in assisted living. There were nurses and staff available for immediate needs.

BPD mother had difficulty regulating her emotions. When these crises were solved for her, she didn't learn self regulation skills. This is why I think it's important to let your son learn now, if he's capable of that.

How to have boundaries on this for your son? What I did was to direct the crisis to the appropriate professional. I'd direct her to the nurse if it was a medical question. Financially, she did financial damage to herself, and eventually saw that if the money wasn't there, she couldn't spend it. As much as you fear for your son becoming homeless, he has to also feel his own fear,  and if you step back and don't bail him out, perhaps he will then feel his own fear of it and not get himself into that situation.

I stopped giving advice unless specifically needed but I still would direct her to someone who could avise her better. Actually, for BPD mother, advice could feel invalidating, like assuming she couldn't figure things out on her own. Sometimes she'd get angry if advice was offered. Instead I'd say affirming statements like "I trust you will figure this out" . Sometimes she mostly just wanted to talk, not listen to anything else.

Here's where I think you can lean on the Kaiser resources. If your son is in crisis, they have counseling services, medical services. Saying "son, I see you are upset- and Kaiser has counseling for that" and then let him solve the issue for himself. If it's an emergency situation, if you feel he's in danger- call 911.

It is key that you make your son responsible for his overwhelming emotions and that you don't allow him to get you upset. An example of this is the cycle of anger. You are feeling fine. Your son dumps his anger on you. Then he feels better as he sees you get upset. He only feels better temporarily. The cycle of anger starts again with nothing resolved.

Hi,

Those are really good questions, and I wish I had a simple answer for you.  I agree that when he's in a state, he's not in the frame of mind to listen to any advice.  If he's pushing the victim narrative and blaming you, that's a tough situation.  When I'm being attacked/blamed, especially for nonsense, and they're clearly irate and bullying, I try to either gray rock or exit the conversation, because it's toxic.  Basically I try to wait until things calm down before re-engaging.  Sometimes they might take down the tone a notch or two, at which time I might state the truth:  "I hear you're upset, let's please calm down so we can talk."  Or, "I can't talk/think with all this yelling, it's making me nervous, let's take a breath and please calm down."

Sometimes I think I've helped my pwBPD most by putting things into perspective.  Her thinking tends to be black-and-white (but honestly, overwhelmingly black).  When she's not having a meltdown, I might try to point out some things that are white, or maybe light gray.  For example, her life might feel uncomfortable ("overwhelming" in her words), but that the situation is just temporary and is to be expected.  She's overcome tough things in the past, and she'll overcome the current situation too if she doesn't give up.  Sometimes I'll ask what she thinks she should do, but to be honest, most of the time she seems clueless about what to do.  Sometimes I think she's DYING for someone to tell her what to do, just because she's tremendously confused, seemingly unsure about herself and how the "real world" works.  So if she's open to it, I might offer some suggestions that I think would work for her.  But it's a fine line, because she also wants to be perceived as an adult and in control.  It's weird (to me), because sometimes it seems that she places more importance on how others might perceive her, than on what she's actually doing, as if her life is a "performance."  I confess I just don't "get" that, because I personally don't consider very much what other people think about me, it barely enters my mind.

There are some conversations which feel like "venting," and I think venting is OK, as long as it doesn't veer into meanness or excessive negativity.  Many conversations sound like, "It's hopeless," which really means, "I'm overwhelmed and don't know how to fix this." That's when I might try to reframe the perspective and make a suggestion or two.  Like, what realistic baby step can you take today to make things better?  Let's focus on that one baby step.  Let's focus on right now.  We're not talking about childhood, about me, about siblings, about how unfair the world is, about how much your life sucks, about what the rest of your life will look like; let's focus on one baby step for today.  Do you have any ideas where to start?  Let's brainstorm.  Let's make a list of possible things to do.  We can sort them by easy, medium and hard.  Then let's pick just one of them to focus on today.  Maybe we start with an easy baby step, or if you're up for it, you can go for a harder one. 

Yeah, I know, I'm a "doer" much more than a "feeler;" I prefer hard reality over dreamy fantasy; I prefer moving over stasis.  I've tried validating feelings with my pwBPD, but my sense is that it mostly perpetuates a negative thinking spiral.  The pwBPD in my life appears to "activate" her negative thinking as a distraction from dealing with daily issues and stresses.  So if I focus on validation, I think she basically curls up with her negative thoughts like a blanket, in a vain attempt to escape the pressures of the world.  In essence, she doesn't want to feel better, because that would mean having to deal with her issues.  I think she often prefers to indulge her anger and victim narrative, because it's an escape and an excuse for not functioning well.  I'm not sure if this is the feminine version of BPD--curling up as if under a blanket to ruminate, rather than punching a refrigerator.

I'm rambling today, maybe because this is so hard!

My 45 yr old swbpd was a very sensitive child and clingy to me even as an infant. For the most part he wanted to stay by my side playing or reading. His brother 4yrs younger was the opposite and would easily entertain himself. Swbpd never bonded with his Dad who has mental health issues. His Dad was jealous of him and of him taking my time. We divorced when my sons were in their teens. What I did not find this out until swbpd was 20 was that he was repeatedly molested by friends who I traded babysitting with. Both husband and wife were involved and threatened our lives if he ever told. Evil people. 
My son didn't display any issues I noticed until about 12rs old. He would at times lay on his bed and cry that he was going to die. I tried to talk with him and comfort him at those moments. He was a sweet kid.  At 15 he began to bully his younger brother, push back with his Dad.  He ran away, he started hanging out with a rough group of guys. He shared many years  later he was involved in beating another kid with this group. The bullying of his brother got so bad - I tried family counseling, SAY counseling... I attend parenting meetings for kid acting out... We had him move in with his grandparents to protect our younger son. He loved his grandfather and bonded with him but they let him run as he pleased.. He dropped out of high school, worked with the  Conservation Corp. Younger son and I visited him and he seemed to be doing well. I got a call at midnight- he left the Corp (got kicked out?) and was in a bus station hours away and was in a panic that he wasn't safe and wanted me to drive and get him. I did not, he was 18. I told him to wait until the morning to take a bus home. At 19 he married a woman 14yrs his senior. She had a 17yr old and a 6yr old.  Lots of drama and violence. Turns out she was on probation.  She took swbpd and her young daughter to the mall and taught them how to steal small items. She pushed him to join the Navy. He did but was quickly sent to what he called Nuts and Bolts and discharged. He divorced 1st wife after she was sent to prison. He married a high school sweetheart at 21. Lots of drama, some good times and two beautiful children who lived through it. I paid for couples, individual and family therapy. I was in the middle of their struggles. My granddaughter asked to live with us as a little girl.
My daughter inlaw carried the brunt of the bpd fallout for many years. Inspite of the trauma and triangulation  - she and I love each other dearly. It must be like the bond soldiers in war have with each other. She eventually divorced him. We had him stay with us. He was suicidal and I drove him to the hospital ranting where he was placed in a facility for 2 weeks. He came back and lived with us for 2yrs until we nudged him out. He shares rent with his younger brother and uncle in his ex wife's house she moved out of. .They've shared custody and he has worked off and on until December where his ex helped him find a full-time job after he talked suicide again because of feeling like a failure in supporting himself and kids. He was an independent electrical contractor.  He tried real estate for a couple years and before that. It isn't that he is not intelligent it is that he is impaired and suffers from bpd. I don't use the word suffer lightly. He can ooze pain.
I wish I understood what was going on for him when he was younger maybe he'd be in a better place now. I do know I did try to get help for him, myself and our family as I knew how.
I don't if reading this might help someone who is scared for their child but in denial as how serious what they was dealing with is.
With proper understanding maybe another kid can get help that works much sooner.

ForeverDad - I can see that more clearly now. As I've been learning about bpd I see that my actions trying to prove I'm a good loving Mom by my enabling a mental illness has been for nothing. Nothing that has truly benefited him except in the immediate crisis by relieving pressure. 

I don't know if this is wise or not. I'm thinking ahead about when he will call in a crisis. I've been searching through the Forum library tools. I've read about DEARMAN, extinction, SET... I need to review more about them. Anyway,  I can picture him calling in a crisis, in a panic, possibly crying....
Does It help to be empathetic and calm him?  Do I listen long? Do I offer suggestions? I don't think so on this last one because he isn't in a logical state of mind when he is in this state. I used to stay on the phone for an hour, even more, call back, text and solve the dilemma by paying rent, registration,  getting water turned on....  Maybe there's no hard and fast way to respond.  If not are there things that aren't productive? I understand holding onto the boundary I set.