Hi Mom,

I really feel for you.  Sadly, estrangement is very common with BPD.  But my guess is that your daughter will reach out again soon enough, typically when she wants some help.

Look, if your daughter didn't want to associate with you, she wouldn't have messaged you at all.  I think she wants to punish you right now, in a misguided attempt to make her feel better.  In my experience, this sort of behavior has nothing to do with you; rather, it's typically a sign that your daughter is stressed out right now.  Because she can't handle the stress very well, she's lashing out at you.  It looks like she's trying to control you, too, perhaps in a vain attempt to reclaim some control in her own life.

My advice is not to take down the pictures from Facebook.  What you do on Facebook is your business.  If she doesn't want to see you on Facebook, she can stop looking at you on Facebook.  If you do her bidding, especially in the context of a manipulative, angry request (i.e. not a rational one about safety or privacy), my guess is that it won't solve her problem one bit, because the problem isn't about you sharing family pictures.  By agreeing to her irrational requests, you'd be incentivizing her mean-spirited behavior.  I'd advise not to increase her incentives for lashing out with meanness.

I think your mom said exactly the right thing--she doesn't want to be in the middle.  She didn't say, OK, I'll agree to an irrational request to alienate a granddaughter from grandma.  Kudos to your mom!  She refused to be triangulated and manipulated, even if it hurt her a lot.

Now I know that probably doesn't make you feel much better.  Please know that you are not to blame for BPD.  A mantra here is the three Cs--you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.  That might help alleviate some of the guilt.

My daughter has not spoke to me for almost 4 weeks now, and I just received a message from her asking me to remove all pictures of her and my grandchild from facebook because she doesn't want to be associated with me. It just hurt so bad reading that, I used to facetime with my granddaughter at least once a week and now she does not want me to be around her. She has told my mother she does not want my granddaughter around me either because if I really wanted them in my life I would have tried harder, and my mother just says she doesn't want to be in the middle because it hurts to much.
Here I am sitting at work trying not to ball my eyes out and my heart breaking.
I don't know what to do anymore, I am crying daily blaming myself for all of this and no matter what I do it feels like I am disappointing someone.

Hi again,

I agree with the general sentiment that the Bank of Mom and Dad needs to close before the Bank of Mom and Dad goes under.

I've lived with an adult BPD stepchild, on and off, for several years.  I've noticed that in her Bizarro world, the natural monetary incentives are all mixed up.  It seemed that the worse she acted--the more tantrums, meltdowns, storming off and impulsive quitting (jobs, college, living situations), etc.--the more money and concessions she got.  In Bizarro world, it literally paid her to be dysfunctional.  Why on earth would she ever change?  She could sleep all day, rely on others to provide housing, insurance and transportation, raid the parental fridge (or order DoorDash and charge the Bank of Dad), refuse to help around the house, and meanwhile have oodles of free time to scroll social media and use marijuana.  She didn't even have to pay for her own phone, because it was supposedly cheaper to keep her on the family plan.  All she has to do to get more money is scream and hurl insults at her parents.  Maybe each successive year she has to take it up a notch and threaten to kill herself if she doesn't get the money she asks for, but she knows her parents will relent, out of Fear, Obligation and Guilt.  She could be cunning too.  For example, she could convince her parent to enroll her in college and pay for an apartment near campus.  If she withdrew early enough (within the first two weeks), she could have nearly all the tuition refunded, directly to her, and she could live on that for a few months, including going on Spring Break.  Parents might not even find out she dropped out of school until months later.  Why would she tell the truth about what she was doing?  In Bizarro world, it's easier to lie and pretend she's going to college.  With BPD thinking, her twisted logic might be that her parent OWES her for abusing her, and thus she has a right to the tuition money, to spend however she wants, and then to ask for even more money as reparations.

Now I imagine there's an element of shame with the pwBPD.  I doubt she's in complete denial about money, where it comes from and how much things cost, even if she does appear to be delusional and clueless at times, about things such as overdraft fees, credit scores and unpaid bills.  I suspect that the financial mistakes generate a lot of anxiety and shame in the pwBPD . . . which probably contribute to her inability to have a conversation about budgeting.  Since the topic makes her both anxious and shameful, she probably reacts to it in her usual ways:  with either the "flight" response--to retreat in avoidance by stonewalling or cutting off communication; or the "fight" response--denying the problem spending, accusing you of lying, accusing you of manipulating, deflecting, etc.

If you can't stand to close the Bank of Mom and Dad, then there could be a middle ground of reducing the credit exposure.  Another approach would be to provide financial assistance in kind, so that you know your money is being spent exactly how you intended.  You might impose some stipulations with continued financial support.  An example might be, you only dole out small amounts in cash in person, for example when your daughter comes to your home for dinner with the grandchildren; that way you can provide a healthy meal, encourage socialization and keep tabs on the grandkids.  I'm sure there are abundant options, and as it's your money, you get to decide how you want to spend it.  In addition, know you could decide not to give her any more money, because you have to handle your own budget.  That's OK too.

Letting go also means allowing natural consequences. Would any of us budget or go to work every day if we found an ATM machine that gives us money whenever we want it? Ideally, we would like our jobs but a main reason we go to work is to earn money for our needs. We also know that if we spend all our money before the next paycheck, there won't be any.

Your D has no incentive to change her behavior as long as money is provided for her. Nor will she be motivated to budget until she experiences the money running out too soon.

This was the situation for my BPD mother, and when my father was working, he was able to continue to supply the money to some extent. BPD mother didn't learn about money management or budgeting and she had no incentive to do so. Only after she seriously compromised her own financial resources did she begin to perceive the limits of spending.

Would it be better for your D to experience this now, when she's younger and can seek employment, or when she's elderly? I think you know the answer to this.

You matter too and you are much more to those grandchildren than money. They'd rather have a grandpa who is relaxed, not stressed and in good physical and mental health. Realistically, you are closer to retirement than your D is. It's important that you don't compromise your own needs.

Can you picture a court ordering you not to send money to your daughter?  Of course, that's hypothetical.  But how would this change your life?  Wouldn't it remove the feelings of obligation and perhaps guilt from your life?

One of the problems in relationships with persons who have Borderline PD traits are factors we call BPD F.O.G. (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).  Think about that.  Haven't you been living for years with a varying degree of FOG overwhelming your life?

Can you ponder that different perspective and what that opens to you?  Some have used the phrase "Let Go and Let God".  What that means - whether you are religiously inclined, legally inclined, or not - is that we each can handle only so much in our lives before we start to suffer.  So it is okay to tell ourselves, "I have tried but this matter is currently beyond my ability to fix.  I did what I could.  It's time to shift my worries and stresses from off my shoulders onto a higher power."  Does that perspective help?

I have a cautionary tale, and I agree with the others who have suggested it's time for the Bank of Dad to close.

For my now deceased BPD mother, this kind of spending was something she did for as long as I can remember. My father was the wage earner in the family. We could see he was stressed over finances as you are. Still, somehow he was able to save and plan for retirement.

After he passed away, assets went to my mother. She kept her finances secret from us kids but we knew they'd be sufficient for usual situations. However, she was spending them quickly and to the point of causing her financial damage.

We hoped to be able to reason with her, after all, the person this affected the most was herself. When we kids were not successful in getting her to understand budgeting, another relative tried but she didn't let him help her with management either.

The "not enough" seemed to be driven by emotional needs. Emotions are not rational. There's no difference between wants and needs when the need is emotional. While you may wish for your D to realize you give enough, this may not be possible. You will need to be the one to decide what "enough" is.

I understand the concern about the effect on the twins if you stop. However, as long as others supply money to your D- she won't experience the consequences of uncontrolled spending and she won't have an incentive to change her behavior if it is possible. The emotional needs may be unlimited but money in a bank account is. As long as someone is adding to it, your D won't see that limit.

Your son will also have to go along with this plan too. Understandably you wouldn't want to see them go to nothing all at once. If he's able to continue the housing and insurance for now, those are essential. The funds from you can be decreased and go to a regular payment instead of on request, with plans to decrease them over a period of time.

Consider that it may be better for your D to experience the consequences of her spending and possibly learn from that. It may take experiencing bankruptcy, being on social services like food stamps, Medicaid (in the US), and even having the children removed temporarily- to have that lesson.

You love your D, but you can also extend that love for yourself and put that money in savings for your needs.

Your inheritance is NOT a marital asset - as long it is kept in a separate account in your name only and not commingled with joint or marital accounts.

Before moving a dime of it, wait until you have a lawyer to represent your interests and your interests only.  Follow your lawyer's advice.  Don't feel guilted.  It is your money after all.

If there is the least possibility that your marriage might fail or is failing, then you have to guard your options and resources carefully.  Beware of times you may feel fearful, overly obligated or guilty when pressured or manipulated to make choices with which you're not comfortable.

When dealing with relationships mired in BPD traits, we try to prepare our newer ones to be aware of BPD F.O.G. ... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.


Don't fret about that.  It is generally best to get your legal "ducks in a row" first.  If you share your decision with your spouse too soon, it will only give him more opportunities to sabotage your decision.  Many here, knowing how tense it would be and even potentially trigger an "incident", decided to coordinate with the lawyer when to give notice or even have a process server handle the legal paperwork delivery.  Obviously, this means you also don't confess that you're seeking or have obtained a lawyer.  Sorry, but that's almost always for the best.  This is one of the times you need your personal rights to privacy and confidentiality.

Hi there CG4ME,

Sounds like you have a skilled and insightful therapist. That's really good to hear for your complex situation.

Is there a specific timeline or deadline that needs to happen for your separation process? I.e. do any parts need to happen at a certain time? If not, I wonder if there has to be any rush to tell your children.

Each situation is different, so I wonder if you could even tell your independent children after the fact.

In terms of your dependent daughter -- that is difficult. For her do you think it would work better to "ease into it" -- for example, you two take a little vacation together, then move into the new place immediately upon return? Or would she do better with a more direct move (current house directly to new place)?

With very young children you sometimes have to get creative, like "sending them to Grandma's for the week" while you move everything out. You know your D's capabilities best so you would know if something like that could help. Can she stay with a friend during the transition?

Finally, have you had a chance to read the book "Splitting" yet? Link here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=47078.0

It's about best practices when divorcing a person with a PD. Could be worth reading and also showing to your support team.

So sorry it has come to this... just take one step at a time.

Hello, ThemApples,
My former therapist said looking back at the fork in the road is hard to do, and you had valid reasons at the time to hope that life would have been easier.

You have time now to choose something different if you'd like to do that. My dbpdh elderly husband is a menace, and my therapist even cautioned me that I might want to avoid these years while I had the chance now that our son was out of college. Some new horror is just around the corner, without the breaks in-between as in past years. If he didn't leave for a couple hours to go to the gym or run errands, I would have lost it. He'll be 78 soon, but can still drive o.k.

I think whether your son would have had the same problems is hard to know. I've known too many people who had stable homes, but children that faced many difficulties of all sorts. I knew these families well, some are close relatives, and one just doesn't know.

I hope you're able to focus on yourself and your future, as you've been through a lot. Wishing you much better days ahead.

Probably one of the hardest lessons to learn for most people "other people's emotions are not my responsibility."

I do like seeing a success story in the vein of looking back on the relationship as an educational tool instead of casting it in such a negative light. Thank you for sharing and providing some insightful positivity back to our forum.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-