MC was challenging today.  Normally, I do not bring up things from the past and try to focus on recent events and challenges because bringing up the big picture is a guarantee the session goes nowhere and that immediate concerns are not addressed.  Last week, my T encouraged me to talk more about past incidents and how they relate to current incidents. I was much more forthcoming today than I usually am when it comes to the relationship as a whole.  

W did not bring up details of the fallout from the relationship with the other woman.  I brought up that this was a difficult week and why, and W became somewhat belligerent towards me and towards MC to the point MC had to tell her to stop putting words in her mouth and remind her that my point of view is also valid.  Of course, W accused MC of taking "my side", and for awhile got pretty ugly between W and MC.  I give credit to MC for getting W to calm down somewhat by being very honest and fair.  The one thing MC reiterated is that hearing someone make statements about not wanting to live can be scary and traumatic and that I cannot be expected to handle things calmly or rationally because I am not a trained therapist.  W's claim is that I have been with her over 10 years, and that I should know who she is by now and know how to remain calm, and me taking her suicide talk seriously means I don't listen or understand her.  

The main thing to come out of this session was that MC can clearly see the difficulty and complexity of the R/S.  I get the sense MC has personally been in a similar r/s, but I am not sure.  When W aired her grievances, MC was quick to illustrate that all of those grievances had nothing to do with me.  

In other words (paraphrasing):

W:  "I'm trapped because H owns the house and won't move and won't let me date women and if the R/S ends I have nowhere to go and if I leave the state H won't let me take the kids."
MC:  "Have you considered looking for a job, a safe house, or a friend to stay with?"
W:  "I have few friends and the ones I have I don't want to stay with and I am not going to go to a shelter because I have H to take care of me and that's what I want - for H to do a better job of listening to me and taking care of me."

I get the feeling MC was saying what she did to illustrate a point that if W really thinks I am so evil she has options of taking care of herself.  In the end, W calmed down somewhat and the session felt more productive than most.  

I think that calling the crisis counselor was a good response. Your wife may not have liked it - but that also means it didn’t reinforce the behavior - even if she escalated.

You saw that your trying to console her at first didn’t keep her from escalating either. Calling the crisis counselor brought in a third party -was probably more effective in the long run. Also your response to her - that it’s her issue - not yours was good too- you didn’t take ownership of her feelings.

What struck me is that you acknowledged it in the moment – you even labeled it as an area where you might get stuck – and still felt drawn to it. That doesn’t sound like weakness. That sounds like something very deep-seated.

The part about “buying your right to exist” by being indispensable really resonated with me. The idea of proving you are important by being the reliable, competent one for everyone else… there’s a lot there.

When you ask who you are when you’re not reflected in someone else’s eyes, that sounds like the heart of it. Not about this relationship or the last one, but about what’s left when you stop trying to earn your spot by being useful.

That's exactly where I am right now.  I wouldn't say I am completely checked out, but I have little motivation for things long term.  If no kids, things would be different.  I don't think there is much to happen now for me to say "I'm staying", for the long term at least because I see that it is dysfunctional now, and for that to change for the positive is well beyond my control.  I am always going to feel somewhat on edge unless I detach (or check out).  As for what would have to happen for me to leave?  Honestly, if that were easy it would have happened already.  We are beyond that point except for logistics.  We talked about that some in MC today, when W complained that she is trapped, MC challenged her on that saying what W wants is well within her control.  In other words, if she wants a different living arrangement, she can get a job.  Or she can make friends.  In other words, not my fault that she has no place to go if the r/s ends. 

I'm so sorry that things have continued to spiral.  But if we're being honest here, I don't think anyone expected this to work out like your wife had planned in her fantasies.

The title of this thread is "It might be over".  Let's talk about that for a moment. 

What would have to happen for you to stay?  What would have to happen for you to leave?  And if you were to leave, or ask her to leave, how would that play out?

The reason I'm bringing this up is not to give advice either way on staying or leaving.  It's more to show that you're choosing "option 3", which is staying while feeling completely checked out of the relationship.  And that's a really tough place to be in long-term.

I thank you, for the advice!  My best friend calls it a "vampire" and says don't let "anyone" suck the joy out of you; I guess I just wait for ANY loop hole where pwBPD would reach out and than, I am, again, disappointed!  So....seeing as I thought, THIS would be it, I think I am mentally prepared that ANYthing will be unlikely....I shall continue to send a bday card, etc. however, am ceasing with the texts, IF pwBPD wants to come around, I shall have an open arm

Maybe, just remember that "natural" for you doesn't mean "natural" for someone with BPD.  Your daughter carries her own mental scars and what she feels is best for her will be exactly what she does.

I think the big picture here is not to take it personally.  We can't predict what mental health will lead someone to do and for that reason, we shouldn't try to carry it as our burden either.  When your kid is ready, she will reach out and there will be a chance to heal the relationship. 

It has to be on her timelines though because, once again, she's mentally ill and not seeing everything objectively.

You did what you could.  No one should fault you for that.

Closure may have to be something you Gift to yourself since you know you the mental gymnastics game a person with BPD traits (pwBPD) can too often twist or guilt about.

Thank you....I know that is true....I just feel the natural "reaction" would be to respond; my husband gave her plenty of time (in self-analyzing...(I, admittedly minus BPD) would welcome the chance to (my other daughter Face Timed and said GOOD bye) try to say goodbye....something/anything

Well, I had a long update, somehow got lost after I hit send.

Basically, things have gotten worse.  As predicted, W got into an argument with the other woman.  It went like this:

W was hurt about other woman spending time with her new GF.  In W's mind:  other woman got new GF because W did not have a sexual relationship with her.  Reality:  other woman went silent because of W's abusive and possessive behavior.  W then went back on the woman's social (dating) app to try and find someone new to talk to.  She got messaged by other woman's new GF, got her head messed with, and eventually W snapped.  Exactly what I thought would happen.

Open relationships only work if all involved are emotionally mature.  W is definitely not.  The two women she was dealing with are definitely not.

Anyway, W wound up extremely depressed, in bed all day, and non-functional.  That night after the kids went to bed, W was lying in bed and stared punching herself in the face and calling herself names.  I ran in to console her, and W told me she hopes she falls asleep and doesn't wake up and that she doesn't want to live.  I did my very best for the next half hour to re-direct her to the present, but it eventually devolved into name calling and blaming me.  I told her I would not sit there if she continued to call me names or blame me.  I left the room and went to the living room.  After a few minutes of cursing and banging, she came out to scream in my face.  At that point I stated that this was a crisis, and that I was going to call a crisis counselor and encouraged her to talk to the counselor with me.  W got more belligerent, so I eventually had to go outside to talk to the counselor.  I did have the counselor on speaker phone, and she could clearly hear W screaming in the background.  W then went to go wake the kids up, and I followed her fearing that it would be terrifying for the kids to be woken by an angry mom and to let them know that I was still in the house.  The kids have on more than one occasion told me they were scared. 

W claims I escalated things by calling a crisis line, and that it was not a "crisis" before I called.  I have told her since that it clearly was a crisis already, and if she is triggered by me calling a counselor or social worker, then that is her own trauma to deal with. 

From my end, calling a crisis counselor also makes a record of things in case something happens later.   I've been mostly avoiding W since then because talking about this seems very dangerous until she returns to some kind of baseline.  Calling a crisis line was the responsible thing to do.

W has since returned to that Women's social app and is talking to two new women.  She seems to have gotten some validation from the other women regarding the previous situation.  The same is likely to happen again as W is probably incapable of learning from the previous one.  I don't think W can see this as self-destructive behavior that is a continuation of a lifelong pattern.  This is the same "self destructive" behavior that W described on about our 3rd date when she was nervous about me seeing cutting scars on her arm.  At the time she said she had a troubled and unsettled youth, but this happened a long time ago, and she reassured me that she was then 11 years sober and has grown...  In other words, what she described to me as "self-destructive behavior" from her past is exactly what she is doing now. 

Today is MC.  I don't know how that will go.   I'm hoping she takes Xanax before the session.  Originally my plan was to not work from home as I usually do on Fridays and suggest we drive separately to MC.  But this morning my office sent an email requesting we not work from the office because of a planned political protest in the area.  I'll keep in mind that I can always take a rideshare home if I need to.