[quote author=SuperDaddy link=topic=3061474.msg13232237#msg13232237 date=1766806346

The problem is that she never understands that this is entirely her issue. She truly believes that all of her partners deserved it.

What's the prognostic of this case? Is there any treatment that can change this pattern, or is it a lost case since she can't see herself as the source of her problems? Would it be the case of EMDR, DBT, or something else? In case this is curable, what would be a realistic timeline for recovery (stop being a bully)?
[/quote]

EMDR is known to be effective for past trauma. However, for any therapy to be effective, the person has to be motivated to work with the therapist and to recognize it's their own trauma. I don't know of any way to "make" someone see their own trauma- and dissociating from it is one way a person coped with this as a child and still as an adult.

EMDR also requires some preparation between therapist and client. They wouldn't want to have the client recall a trauma without already working with them to develop ways to cope. But from what I know, (and this is a lay board- so we only know our own experiences with pwBPD) it's necessary that the client is motivated to work on their own trauma for this.

Yes, sometimes I have this fear response to someone who is angry, or reminds me of my BPD mother at times.

While you are an adult now, at one time, you were a small child, afraid of a mother raging at you. We have these memories.

What helps me is to recognize the feelings and to take a moment for self care. When someone is angry and yelling, it doesn't help to try to engage them in the moment. It's better to disengage, go be by yourself for a few moments.

It also helps to put the situation in context. Because our mothers were angry at us, we assumed the issue was our fault but sometimes, possibly many times, it isn't. Chances are you aren't responsible for what your SD is angry about.

It does help to not take their words personally, however, we still may have our feelings. You don't have to stay present and listen to someone yelling at you. Excuse yourself, go where you can be alone-, listen to music, take a walk. Grey rocking helps too.

My last experience with my girlfriends emotional breakdowns was when she wanted to turn on peppa pig for her kids an I was on my youtube last and it came up and I told her to switch to her youtube to find it easier and she flipped out because she thought I was hiding something in my youtube history and went into a hateful rage that lasted 2 hours . I tried to empathise and deescalate the situation and she just got madder "because I was spineless and would not stand up for myself"  She is right in the fact that I did not want to fight. Now I have been in a bit of shock and she is trying to make up to me sweet as pie, making sexual advances (which has worked in the past) and now she is accusing me of avoidance behavior. I am not trying to avoid her and I am responding to her . I am just hurt, depressed, and trying to get over it,  I love her and her girls (2 and 4 years old) and when we get along I am very happy. But I am walking through a mine field.

Hi there. My question is about success stories, but it focuses on a specific aspect.

Imagine a that wife fills almost the full DSM checklist for BPD, except that she does not do self-harm. Instead, she opts to do husband-harm. Well, he never bends, and that's why the relationship stands, but she keeps trying. It's trauma-based. No drug use, healthy eating and aided with many good supplements such as Omega-3 and D3.

A typical case in which the paranoid thoughts can be directly linked to childhood traumas. She has a narcissist father and she was his golden daughter who couldn't really meet up with his expectations. Also, he would force her to watch him spank her mother, and even wake her up just to watch it again. As you might expect, she projects her deep anger towards men to her intimate partners, but does that in way that effectively turns her into a real bully. That's it's not only when she gets triggered. She can do provocations because of insecurity, trying to take men out of their balance, just to proove herself that they are somewhat like her father. Or, after a trigger, she may lash out for days based on a self-feeding relentless anger.

The problem is that she never understands that this is entirely her issue. She truly believes that all of her partners deserved it. Unable to recognize how toxic she is, she instead thinks "the relationships" were toxic, always blaming them and rarely herself. After beating her husband for the first time, she asked him if their relationship became toxic, even though he had not retaliated anything.

What's the prognostic of this case? Is there any treatment that can change this pattern, or is it a lost case since she can't see herself as the source of her problems? Would it be the case of EMDR, DBT, or something else? In case this is curable, what would be a realistic timeline for recovery (stop being a bully)?

I thought I'd provide an update on the Christmas holiday.  As a recap, last summer my adult BPD stepdaughter decided to move out of her apartment, before the lease expired, because of friction with her roommates, and live with her dad and me instead.  In order to move in with us again, the deal was that she had to be nice/respectful, clean up after herself and work full-time.  Since she didn't have a job at the time (she had gotten laid off), the expectation was that she had to work diligently to find a full-time job as soon as possible, so that she could obtain affordable health insurance, save up and eventually move out.

At first she made some efforts with the job search, but it seemed her heart wasn't really in it, as she prioritized enjoying summer vacation and undergoing cosmetic procedures.  In addition, since she was hunting for her first office job (rather than food service jobs), she seemed surprised that the application and interview process was more complicated than expected.  She grew frustrated with the job search and resumed her old habit of sleeping the day away.  She became increasingly passive-aggressive, such as refusing to talk with us or eat dinner with us.  Tensions in the home mounted, and her dad started pestering her about sleeping in late and taking naps in the afternoon, when she was supposed to be working and/or conducting a job search.  After all, summer was over, and she needed to be working harder to get on a path towards self-sufficiency.  One day they got into a heated argument over her late wake time--which ended with her dad saying he thought it was time she should leave, and she stormed out.  She found a couple of temporary living situations and then managed to rent an apartment.  I assume she found some sort of employment, though probably not the office job she wanted.  Though she was upset about the argument, she asked her dad for considerable help and support moving out, including moving her heavy furniture, contributing rent money and fixing/selling her car. 

Anyway, because of the tensions with her dad, she stayed away at Thanksgiving, which her dad and I were hosting.  Nevertheless, I was very pleasantly surprised that the day before, she let us know that she wouldn't be visiting--usually she doesn't communicate at all, and we're left hanging, wondering if she'll show up or not.  Even better, on Thanksgiving day she called, chatted briefly with her relatives and wished everyone a happy holiday.  I thought that was a very positive development, even if her family was disappointed that she didn't visit in person.

Sadly however, once the logistics of moving out and selling her car were completed, she blocked her dad.  Initially, he was mostly upset because he felt used, as she didn't thank him for his help.  But now, he's even more upset about being blocked, because he worries about her.  I told him that I thought she felt ashamed to ask for so much help--she doesn't like it and isn't comfortable, and so she can't be grateful, either.  When she was living with us, she couldn't stand knowing that she wasn't holding up her end of the bargain, and since we were under the same roof, she couldn't escape the constant feeling of failure.  She needs her space.  I also cautioned him not to get his hopes up for a Christmas visit, because her siblings would be around, and she isn't on equal footing with them yet.  She can't bear to see them happy or hear their cheerful updates when she feels like a failure.  I advised not to push or beg her to visit, because asking her comes with expectation and obligation, which feels too overwhelming to her right now.  Nevertheless, I did hope that we'd see a repeat of Thanksgiving--that she'd call and wish her dad and me a Merry Christmas, and maybe do the same for her siblings.  Instead, she's completely blocked everyone, and she won't respond to any texts or calls.

My husband is terribly sad, and a bit angry too.  He's tired of the family dysfunction which has ruled his life for years now.  But most of all, I think he's devastated that these days, his daughter seems angry, mean, ungrateful and unstable--not a very attractive combination.  He fears she'll never have a loving relationship with anyone if she continues to act this way.  Anger, grief, resentment and alienation are lurking in the background during a holiday that's supposed to be about joy and togetherness.  I try to find the bright side--she's asserting her independence, she has more space to solve her own problems, and we have a more peaceful household right now.  Anyway, with BPD it always feels like two steps forward, one step backward.

I bought my BPD stepdaughter a few nice presents, thinking we'd have a repeat of last year's Christmas, when she didn't visit on Christmas Day (because extended family were around), but she did stop by a couple days later for an intimate gift exchange with only her dad and me.  I suspect that this year I'll be putting those presents aside to give her when she's ready, maybe on her birthday.  And here I was thinking, I wanted to say how proud I am of her for finding her own living situation, starting to support herself and embarking on her own journey.  But it's hard to say that when at the same time, she's hating and treating her family poorly.

I feel like this issue - i.e. the pwBPD reacting this way when someone else in the family is suffering some kind of trauma - has been discussed from time-to-time here. 

I think you're right about the pwBPD always needing to be in the victim role, or always perceiving themselves as the victim.  But I do think they genuinely resent the other party for having something that garners sympathy for the moment; they view it as a threat, maybe?  Or are jealous of it?  And they react in the only way they know how, negatively.

I also wondered if because pwBPD are always playing emotional games to get attention, when someone else is genuinely in need of attention, they instinctively assume the other person is trampling on "their turf" and also faking it?

I've been lucky to be pretty healthy thus far in my life, but there were a couple times during our marriage when I got sick, and one time where I had a bit of a health emergency for a muscle/tissue inflammation and needed to be on bed rest for a couple days.  In each case, BPDxw was surprisingly concerned at first and urged me to go to the doctor.  But after about 24 hours of me not helping out around the house, her sympathy evaporated, along with any patience she had, and she'd start making sarcastic comments about my worth as a man, and asking how long I "planned" to be sick. 

And she'd also conveniently trot out the fact that she was the one who encouraged me to go to the doctor as a sign that she cared more for me than I cared for myself.  It was always a game, and she knew how to play it. 

In the long run, this concerned me because I could not see myself growing old with her.  I would NOT want my health (or life) in her hands.  Nor could I see eventually having to take care of my parents in their old age, with her.  I don't think she's a murderer, but would I want my someday infirm, elderly mother alone with her in the same house?  Absolutely not. 

I've heard about repressed memories; I don't know whether it's a common response to trauma or not.  It certainly doesn't seem to be an unusual response though.

The situation you described sounds absolutely awful though, and I'm sorry you went through that.  I hope you've gotten, or will get counseling or something to help you avoid a repetition of that for your own good. 

In my own case, I don't recall or think of anything that bad that I had forgotten. There were regular fights and screaming-fests I was subject to, but I've always had a good memory and am a person who holds grudges, so I kind of just bottled it all up and formed more and more resentment against BPDxw.  When I got divorced it was a huge sense of relief for me, and I've never regretted it for a second. 

At times during our marriage, I would sometimes remember things as "not that bad" although it wasn't due to any repressed memories, just that when I looked back, things sometimes were SO BAD that I came to view relatively uneventful periods as calm oases in a sea of otherwise turbulence.  So sometimes some of our fights weren't memorable compared to the all-time ones. 

…explode. When we get over this how the problem was told etc. he can tell me what according to him the best approach to save the problem is and if I want to debate this approach it is not possible, he gets offended that I dont like his advice. What helps here is again great validation of his oppinion and then moving on. I noticed it also helps a lot if I tell him in advance that I would like him to just listen to me that I will describe a problem I have - maybe this is putting some preassure away.
Lastly speaking of emotion, or why some situation is hard for me and what I feel can get me in totally devaluated position like: oh, it is nothing, you should not feel that way, if you feel that way you should start taking antidepressants like me. Which I find absurd, but I came to realise his understanding of emotions is practically nonexistent and he just wants it to be the same. Here again it helps if I tell him I just want him to listen to me, not solve anything.

Altogether I think that also the timing is very important, I cannot just start these conversations whenever, he MUST be totally regulated. If I misread the situation it backfires. Luckilly I got better in identifying appropriate situations and also at managing my part of communication which is adapted to bpd. However, it is not possible to get the situations right all the time and it is also not possible to always stay in this adapted kind of conversation, we are humans too.

What disrupts my filling of intimacy and emotional connection is also this neverending possibility that at any time a minimal trigger can (and sometimes will) happen that can trigger such rage followed by bad mood that can cause the whole day to be ruined. My boyfriend just cannot get out of this mood even if the argument is over, and I am talking about a MOOD, not just being a bit sour. This brings me a lot of fear and uncertainty, same things can be ok one day and a total disater the other day. I try to practice radical acceptance - bpd is a psychiatric illness and when a person is dysregulated cannot help themself (to some extent), like I would not be angry if a person with epilepsy would have a seizire. I admit it is sometimes still hard, but I got much better at knowing that the things he says when dysregualtes are not true. I try not to J.A.D.E. as it only brings more conflict. And importantily, even if his day stops, I try that mine does not. Boundaries help a lot.

If the argument allready started I find it helpfull to try to valodate what is valid, that can bring us back before totall rage takes place sometimes.

It still hurts me sometimes how I am always the one who has to listen, adapt my communication, validate and sometimes everything I get back is some semi peace. I still have to work on radical acceptance. I regained some intimacy with timing when I tell him the things important to me and comunicationg them as I stated. But hinestly it took a lot of arguing that I got this boundary that sometimes I also have to be listend to. The things that are not important to me and I know would bring an argument I try to avoid at all cost - for us this is politics.

Reading this forum and lessons on this site helped me a lot in learning. From what you have written with a lot of causon and political corectness and how you would like to help, I suspect you might be a cartaker, like a lot of us in a relationship with pwBPD - it is a force of nature. I find a book Stop caretaking Borderline or Narcissist very helpful. A basic book about bpd is Stop waliking on eggshells. Both books explain how not to loose yourself in this kind of relationship.

I found some old thread that might be helpful: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79300.0

And also this one, has a quote from Fjelstad: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?PHPSESSID=65a4c6da6a8eaa3826d2bbdff3aa4aff&topic=3059235.msg13220922

Please dont forget that you can only change yourself, but that also changes the relationship for the better.

Hi guappi and welcome!

What you write about is exactly what I struggle with the most. I am sorry, but I think that real safe emotional intimacy is not possible with a person with bpd traits, I also read it here on the forum more times, I also remember a quote from author of the book Stop caretaking of Borderline or Narcissist, Fjelstadt, I will try to find it.
My bf has bpd traits and luckliky he is on medication which helped him a lot with emotional dysregulation, so rage does not happen that often anymore. However, it is still not possible for us to have true emotional intimacy. I will list some examples, maybe they will be familiar to you and I will describe how I try to cope with it. I hope some other members will also voice their oppinions on this interesting and hard topic.

For example it is very hard for me to tell my bf about my thoughts/feelings/problems, because if we dont agree the debate can escalate in minutes, he tries to “win” the “argument” and gets very agressive, but percieves me as such (projection). I feel like I am not alowed to have my own oppinion and if I voice that, he says that it is the other way around that I am the one trying to convince him to change his mind, although my usuall approach to try to stop the conversation is in lets agree to disagree. When I manage a better approach is to validate his oppinion a lot (although he dysvalidates mine) and then cautiously tell my oppinion still and do not loose myself and he feels heard.
When I tell him about my problems it can happen that he gets nervous very fast, his usuall approach is to find something in my communication and accuse me of “not telling the problem correctly”, like that I was not clear enough. This makes my head