My experiences are similar.  Every now and then, my ex wife will bring up the past and I can tell it's because something in the moment hurts her.  She's not coming from it the way she did pre-divorce though, it's like she's experiencing it and looking for my agreement that it was a tough time in our life.  For example, we recently talked about an ugly argument she had with my mom shortly after being married...it led to our first separation (for about 2 weeks).

Although BPDs don't show it, I believe they visit the past often trying to reconcile what the heck happened, who did what, etc.

I realize now that my ex was never my enemy, even when she was destroying our lives.  She was sick and making selfish decisions to run from her internal pain.  I don't agree with it but I can understand it anyway.  And I'm very happy we're able to be mom and dad today, even though we've both moved on.

I don't recall what context that advice was, but I think it was because you felt that to do so would possibly risk the marriage and you didn't want to do that.  I think it was out of concern for your mother, who, after travelling several hours, might face your wife not even letting her come in and it escalating the situation.

I don't think there could be a conclusion for your situation, because, from my own experience- how to peacefully have your mother come visit without your wife reacting isn't something I have ever seen in my own family with my BPD mother. I wish there was a solution like this but I don't know of one.

Unfortunately, from my own experiece, there were two choices. One was to go against my mother's wishes, if I thought her wishes were wrong, as you do with this situation. The consequences would be her reaction. The other choice is to not rock the boat and feel bad about myself for going along with something I didn't think was right.

I highlighted the idea of being at the mercy of the pwBPD. I don't think this is completely true but rather, not doing this comes with the consequences of their reaction .Does holding the boundary that the pwBPD doesn't want risk the relationship? Maybe and maybe not. It puts the "ball" back into their court to decide. My BPD mother threatened divorce but in reality, she was completely dependent on my father and I don't think she could have done it easily.



I wish I had a better solution, really, but I don't know of one.

We have an entire Tools & Skills board that has many topic discussions on improving our communication skills, better boundaries, learning which approaches to use and which not to use, etc.  That said, BPD is so intractable that no matter what we say, do or improve upon, the other's entitlement, obstruction and denials can still persist.

That leaves... what decisions are we to make for ourselves (and hopefully for your children)?  Partly, that's why I suggested you research what the laws and case law are in your area or state, since you aren't the genetic parent of the children.  Legally you both should be considered parents but if the marriage ends, then what?  Once you determine where you stand in that respect, you'll know what the worst case scenario would likely be should your marriage fail.  Not that we want it to happen, but to make informed decisions we need to know the possible good to bad range as we ponder our choices and approaches.

Well, just like probably a ton of us, I’m a long-time lurker and first-time poster here. This sub has really been my therapy over the last month, and I want to thank everyone for the insight and the sharing.

Here’s my story. I’m not sure I really have any questions, but I’m sure people will have opinions—and I welcome that.

I met my pwBPD about two years ago when she was training at work. I was stopped in my tracks: “Who is that?” I literally said out loud, “That’s the most beautiful girl I have ever seen in my life.”

She was an early-20s Desi girl who looked like she could have stepped right off the cover of a magazine. I was hooked immediately. I started showing interest, and within two months we went from talking at work to texting to late-night calls. I made my move, and soon we were attached at the hip.

I was in shock. I’m older and definitely not as attractive as this girl, but somehow I quickly became her favorite person. And as we all know, that’s one of the biggest highs in life you can ever feel.

The next three months were beyond a fairy tale. Life was good. I was happier than I can ever remember, and it was all because of this little BPD girl who made every day better than the one before. Of course, if you’re on this sub, you already know where this goes…

She was always open about her BPD—never once did she sugarcoat anything. At times she even warned me of what could come and gave me tips on what she would need to handle it. (And despite what everyone says, I absolutely should have listened.) But I was too happy to care. I had this amazing girl who seemed to love life with me as much as I loved life with her.

She had obviously been through some rough things: cuts all over her legs and wrists, a history of childhood sexual abuse. Absolutely brutal stuff no human should ever have to endure. And yet, there she was, head held high with a smile on her face. Honestly, it made me adore her even more for her strength. (I probably should have told her that.)

As the relationship grew, the honeymoon phase started to fade, and that old friend—BPD—started to show itself. At first it was small incidents, where her reaction to something would be absolutely off the charts. I started Googling BPD and figured, “I can handle this.”

News flash: I was an idiot.

What came next was a two- to three-month spiral that absolutely changed my life forever.

Once the spiral started, alcohol became the fuel for her splits. My next few months were spent in hell. She was never okay; everything was wrong. My nights were spent being cursed at, slapped, screamed at—sometimes until four or five in the morning.

I work two jobs, totaling about 55 hours a week, and there were weeks where I got only nine hours of sleep across five days. My health started to fail fast.

She made repeated attempts on her life: cutting her wrists, downing a bottle of pills in front of me (I had to force her to throw them up), drinking household cleaners. I had to involve the police, take her to the hospital—nothing seemed to break her free fall.

We even went on trips where she drank and threatened to jump out of hotel windows. I still have nightmares about those moments.

I was so lost. My friends and family could see I wasn’t okay and encouraged me to move on for my own sanity. But to me, my number one priority was getting her through this and keeping my promise to always be there for her. Her life felt more important than mine.

The strange thing was that the days after these episodes, she was super apologetic—embarrassed and devastated about what she had done. She agreed to stop drinking and begin treatment. Mentally, I was worse off than I had ever been, but seeing her at least try gave me hope for our future. She was my girl, and I decided I would carry whatever weight was needed.

The last year has been a rollercoaster of ups and downs. Work became unbearable with her—she would have meltdowns if I talked to a female friend, then want to go on trips with a bunch of guys. The hypocrisy drove me crazy: “It’s okay if I do it, because it’s different.”

She was finishing school, which she repeatedly tried to quit, but I convinced her to push through—and she did. I was beyond proud of her. She started getting job offers, and I thought the stress of not working together anymore would help our relationship.

But during this time, she told me “Just break up with me” at least ten times a day. It became her answer to everything. The verbal abuse escalated. She told me, “I wish you would die,” “Kill yourself.” She even once wished death on my dog. This became a near-daily occurrence.

I was exhausted. Tired. Weak. Sad. I developed chronic bronchitis, my health declined, and mentally I became a shell of a person.

The good days were still the best—but they became so rare. I still wanted her to thrive, to beat this, but she skipped meds, missed appointments, and seemed to refuse to help herself.

Eventually, she got a great job offer and moved back in with her parents after they bought a new house. I thought this would help her mental health. She started hanging out with new friends, and for a few weeks I felt like I had my girlfriend back. She was amazing again. I was never out of love, but now I really felt like we’d turned a corner.

Then, out of nowhere—around the same time as last year—she spiraled again. Her splits were constant, triggered by anything and everything. The rants returned: “I hope you die.”

She started sending me pictures of her blades, then photos of her bleeding wrists. I’d get constant calls: “You better fix this!” or “Now see what I do!” She threatened to sleep with coworkers. And still… my love for her never stopped. I scrambled to figure out ways to help her, but I didn’t know what I was doing. I hadn’t listened enough at the beginning. I didn’t have the tools.

About a month and a half ago, I nearly died. I choked in a Subway restaurant, started to lose consciousness, and even saw dead loved ones. My last thought as I clung to life was her face.

A stranger saved me. When I told her about it, she was horrified and told me how much she loved me and that she couldn’t be without me.

Later that night, she split and told me she wished I had died.

That broke me. I started rethinking everything, but my world still centered around her. The spiral continued, and now I wasn’t there to keep an eye on her. I was terrified she’d bleed out or overdose.

I figured that since everything about her mental health seemed to center around me, maybe I should step back. Maybe if I went away, she’d at least have some kind of mental “high” for a while. I knew she wouldn’t be alone long—guys chase her endlessly because she’s so gorgeous and charming.

I told her I needed space and started limiting contact.

It destroyed me. I was so trauma-bonded and codependent. I knew it carried a huge risk of her discarding me, but I needed her to “reset.”

After a few days, she started talking about going out with new friends. Her texts became less frequent, and I knew she was probably gone. I was dying inside.

Then one day she called. She told me how amazing her life was now, how great her new friends were, and that we should end things. (I thought it was already over, .) Still, even that gave her a sense of control, and I was happy just to hear her voice full of life again.

We cried. We told each other how much we loved one another, how we’d never be the same. (I won’t be.) We said goodbye and even texted sweet things all night. I woke up to one final message, and that was that. I didn’t reply. I wanted to—but I didn’t want to get in her way.

For the first time in a long time, I started to think clearly. I researched BPD more deeply, got coaching, and really reflected on what I could have done better. I realized that to be with someone with BPD, you have to listen and learn.

I still had so much I wanted to say, so I wrote her a long message explaining my love for her and why I had to step back. She replied kindly, starting with, “It’s too late now, obviously,” but the rest was sweet. She made sure to tell me she’s the happiest she’s ever been, how amazing her new friends are, and how great life is—just three weeks after we last spoke.

Then came a flood of old photos, “I love you” and “I miss you” texts over the next two days. I asked to meet, and she agreed instantly. We hugged, we kissed—and I was over the moon.

As I was leaving, she mentioned her new friends were going on a trip the next day. She texted me a few times while away. When she got back, we reconnected, but she said, “I know what you’re trying to do,” and “I can’t do this because of my BPD.” Then she sent more photos of us, more “I love you” messages, then said goodbye again.

That’s when I decided to stop contacting her.

I figured there was already someone else (I’m on this sub enough to know, ). Maybe she’s just happier in her new life—going to bars, riding the high. Even though I know it will eventually crash, maybe it’s what she needs right now.

Two days later, she called me crying. She said she missed me, wanted to meet (I was at work), told me she loved me. She started texting after the call: how she couldn’t stop thinking about us, how sad she was. But then: “I don’t want to feel stuck.” and “I don’t know what I want.”

Her last text said how sad she felt. I didn’t respond.

I love this woman more than life—dumb or not. Everyone thinks she’s going to come back. I don’t. But I absolutely want her to, because despite the BPD, I love her more than anything.

I know it will get better.
But I sure miss my pwBPD—and probably always will.

Not Wendy, I want this to be a value that I stand up for. When I last discussed this issue on the betterment board, no conclusion was reached as to what I could do. Your advice was against my idea of inviting Mum round against my wife’s wishes. I felt as though, really, this boundary thing is an illusion and at the end of the day, we are all at the mercy of our pwbpd’s. I have expressed my awareness that, were I to separate from my wife, I would have more rights over the children, to take them to see my Mum, during whatever custody time I was granted legally if bpdw would not agree to it. I do understand that this is the path I may have to take in these circumstances. I came to this conflicted board to ask for advice as to what to do next. I understand that I would need to seek legal advice and I’m not sure how or whether this would cost me (we have no money). Or do I try to go behind my wife’s back, which is still going to be difficult as I have little time without her and then I’m either at work or driving and she still rings me when I’m driving.

Pete Witsend, your story does sound very similar to mine and my wife has been a stay at home parent for six years. I have decided that this is important to me. I used to pussy foot around the issue, walking on egg shells, trying to gently convince bpdw to have my mother visit. I used to coax my wife like a sick injured animal give her utmost care and attention. I’m done with that. I have mentioned to her that I could seek legal advice and she has said ,”fine divorce me”, no matter what she really means. Today she started another text fight with Mum, to show me that she’s tried one last time and won’t be trying again. I told her to please leave my mother alone. My Mum knows exactly what my wife is like. I have told her about bpd, but she isn’t interested. I think she just thinks my wife should grow up, stop being selfish, and think about other people other than herself for a moment. I don’t think I’ve been condoning this to keep the peace. It’s more that I don’t see what the opposite of that choice would look like, what I should actually do. Allowing my wife this power may not be keeping the peace, but it is allowing our relationship to stay stable rather than descending into hell. I just want to do this as peacefully as possible.

Forever Dad, I am not ever “permitted” to be the deciding parent, so if I were to FaceTime behind my wife’s back then she would be very angry. In fact she doesn’t like to be talked about, and I think this is why she doesn’t like me speaking to my mother when she’s not present.

So without asking, what should I do? Please tell me if anyone has any ideas as to how I can approach and execute this plan with the least explosion.

To add to prior replies...

PeteWitsend 2) ... Remember that you don't handle a child's question or distress once and then forget it.  Follow up periodically and as needed.  Your ex is repeatedly pounding negatives into the children's heads, you need more than one response to ensure you too are reinforcing things, just with positives.

Pook075 ... My final couple years together, the separation, the two year divorce, the post marriage years, they were all heightened conflict.  Over time I realized that having a child was a huge trigger for her, in her perceptions I had morphed from a husband into a father and that resurrected the traumas her stepfather had caused throughout her childhood.  There was no option but to divorce.  Now our son is grown.  He still lives with me so she visits him and largely ignores the past conflicts.  (And I don't discuss it either or she gets triggered all over again.  After all, even though never diagnosed, she is still easily triggered by almost anything in her life.)

If your spouse is allowing online contact with the kids, then that is at least better than no contact at all.  Of course, demands may change in the future so grandparent contact may be further restricted, however when the children are with you then you're the deciding parent.  Well, not that the other's perceptions will allow that perspective.

First, understand that Custody Evaluations are court ordered, if requested or deemed appropriate, in separation or divorce cases where there are minor children.  Otherwise, unless your spouse is agreeable, no one will enforce an evaluation.  Well, Child Abuse cases and perhaps DV cases could be exceptions.

Family courts are known to have little interest in fixing a spouse's poor behavior.  The official presumption is that setting some temporary court-ordered boundaries ought to be sufficient for most 'bickering' couples, with the expectation the discord and conflict will fade once their adult relationship is past.  Courts treat litigants as they are, generally don't try to figure out the issues and don't try to fix them.  If you do at some point end up in family court, that is an approach to imitate.

Even children's services may not dig too deeply into 'why' a parent is behaving the way he or she has behaved.  They will assess whether the level of abuse or crazymaking has risen to an 'actionable' level.

If you do have children and at some point decide the adult relationship has failed, make your Priority as the reasonably normal parent to seek as much parenting as possible for your children's lasting benefit.  Having a Custody Evaluation, though it takes months and is expensive, ought assist the court to see the value of your parenting and the need to continue as an involved parent.  A caution... a lousy CE report can ruin your case so care must be taken to ensure an experienced and unbiased evaluator is selected.

In my case, my lawyer selected a CE who was a child psychologist who was excellent.  He promised nothing but watched our preschooler closely in sessions with each parent.  There were tests too, I presume the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI, quite trusted) was one of them.  Unlike other CEs, his initial report was not a book, it was about a dozen pages and was spot on.  Most of us here who realized there was no other option but to divorce found that though our cases were protracted and needed some orders and judicial decisions along the way due to our stbEx's entitlement and dysfunction, most cases did end with settlements.

Hi nhut and


How quickly your ex has moved on to another relationship does not demonstrate that you have a problem, but rather it is evidence of her disorder.  First of all, grieving over a longer relationship (7 years was it?) takes time and effort even if it was a non-disordered relationship.  7 years out of a disordered relationship, a relationship with someone with a personality disorder such as borderline personality disorder, that understandably takes more time.  

I was in my disordered relationship for about 5 years and it took me well over a decade to really feel like I had fully processed that relationship.  But for me, it was the dynamic I had with my ex, paralleled my relationship with my udBPDmother -- that was the part that I had to work through.  I didn't really ever consider that my mother was disordered until several years after that break-up. And it took another decade to really understand how my mother's behavior was disordered in the same way.  It was different, but only because I was a child with her and not a partner as with my ex-BPDgf.  I couldn't let go of my exBPDgf, until I started to understand how my uBPDmother had conditioned me to be drawn towards BPD women.



It takes two to tango.  If she is disordered, and you were willing to stay with her for 7 years, then you must have some issues to work through.  Someone with my healthy boundaries and mental health would not have been so tolerant to be with someone with her issues (if she has BPD) for as long as that.

That said, it is unlikely you are dealing with BPD yourself because you are at least willing to entertain the possibility that you have some kind of disorder; people with BPD are usually unable to emotionally tolerate seeing themselves as disordered (for very long).

If you are like me, you must have some degree of co-dependency.  I am/was codependent in that I used the chaos of my BPD relationship as an (inconvenient) excuse to avoid facing my own emotional issues.  It was only in the aftermath of the (personal) devastation of the ending of that relationship, that I was forced to focus on myself.  It as painful as it was, it was worth it.  Otherwise I could have very easily have ended up marrying another woman with similar issues.

Best wishes,

Schwing

She reacted that way because she has a behavioral disorder. 

And in your next post where you asked what you could've done differently, consider instead where you would be if you had: you'd still be in a relationship with a person who was going to force you to live in her reality, not the one you perceive; to deny your own feelings and needs in favor of hers, and cut everything out of your life that she found threatening, which might include your own family, friends, hobbies, and even physical needs. 

So why would you want that?  Are you that desperate for a relationship that you would be willing to live a lie in order to perpetuate it?