Closure and repair are wonderful but the relationship could only be as functional as BPD mother's capability. Also, the role of scapegoat fits into Karpman triangle dynamics https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

BPD mother perceived herself as in victim position. Other members of her family could align with her as rescuer or be put in persecutor position.

I didn't go NC with BPD mother and I tried to help with my parents but disordered dynamics seemed to prevailed. With BPD mother, I could visit, spend the whole time doing things for her and she'd get upset at something I didn't do or did that bothered her. At times, she might act pleased and say something nice but it was difficult to believe in that, as I didn't know if she'd be angry at me for something else.

Your emotional well being and your own family comes first. I don't have the additional issue of disordered siblings. That is a lot to deal with.

It's hard because others have our cultural expectations of us and so do we. People who haven't experienced this don't understand that, even if it's different from their experience, we are still doing the best we can with our own circumstances and there's no one right way to do this, or perfect way.

Somehow, we need to arrive at a way to give ourselves some grace in this process.

Lots of good insights in the last exchanges.

I agree 100% that marijuana makes the situation worse.  For my BPD stepdaughter, I think it made things an order of magnitude worse.  My opinion is that it fed her delusional thinking, as well as led to bouts of intense paranoia.  In addition, I think it knocked off 8 to 10 IQ points.  Her vocabulary stalled at a tween's level, and she had trouble following adult conversation.  Most of all, it rendered her skatterbrained . . . unable to plan or execute things very well, such as pack for a weekend trip.  She had to hear from doctors that marijuana was hurting her, not helping.  Of course, when she was at the hospital, she couldn't use.  Fortunately, she stopped.

I agree with everything Pook wrote--not to "play their game."  Don't reward their lashing out with attention, "begging" for communication when they treat you badly, or apologizing for things you didn't do.  In my opinion, attention to acting out only serves to "feed the fire."

I think you're on the right track when it comes to being a "cheerleader."  Your son probably needs lots of reassurance, and it's OK to give it when he's not dysregulated.  Inside, he's often confused about who he is and what he should do.  Sometimes I think he needs to hear confirmation from external sources:  You're smart, you'll figure it out, you've got this.  You're employed, you have a girlfriend, you're getting professional support to work through issues, you're being responsible, you're doing great.  I love you and I'm proud of you.  Sure, you migh mess up sometimes, but that's how people learn best.  It would be a shame if you beat youself too much over something that's in the past.  You focus on you, today . . .

One approach that my stepdaughter eventually warmed to was getting help from professionals, partly because it validated her victim narrative.  Importantly, her doctors told her to stop using marijuana.  Then the encouragement she got from her dad and me went something like this:  "You're getting the professional support you need, and that's great.  You're really acting like a responsible adult.  The doctors are experts, they know what works--they treat people like you all the time.  Your job right now is to do whatever they say."

(I added the "you're acting like a responsible adult" because that was my stepdaughter's chief gripe--that everyone treated her like a little girl, and that she was "stuck" living like one.  Since being seen as an adult was critical to her, I think that saying this made her buy into the therapy process even more.)

With BPD, everything is tied to emotion.  If you're happy, all is well because you made yourself happy.  But if you're sad/angry, it must be someone else's fault.  And the people who get blamed are the people closest to the BPD.

BPDs go through phases from idolization (where someone can do no wrong) to discarding that same person completely (they are the source of all problems).  Both viewpoints are absolutes, and there's no such thing in this world.  None of us are 100% good or 100% bad...and we all make mistakes.  Due to the mental illness, BPDs are constantly shifting the people they're closest to in one of the two categories though.

Combine the two things, and you get BPDs who face the same problems that we do, yet they become so emotional that they can't handle the stress.  So they blame, they manipulate, they lash out to punish those who have caused all their pain and heartbreak.  Only, you're not the problem...mental health and unstable emotions...that's the real problem.

So how do you stop being a part of the problem and actually a part of the solution?  You stop playing the game BPDs play.  If they lash out, you cut them off, even if it's for hours or days.  It's okay to tell them you love them, but it's not okay to accept abuse out of compassion and expect things to get better.  They don't...they can't...because your kindness is being taken by a mentally ill mind to mean that you're admitting fault and deserve even worse punishment.

Healthy boundaries are your best friend.  It's basically saying, I want to be involved in your life because I love you.  But at the same time, I'm not going to be your punching bag or your sounding board whenever you're disordered.  We don't treat people we love tha way and if you can't respect me, I have to step away for a bit.

I hope that helps!

Yes, it totally makes sense. In my son's case, he does have a girlfriend but he has lot of fear that things will end because of his behavior. He was in a serious relationship before and he blew it up. Then he was devastated about it. It's complicated because he has tremendous fear of abandonment That seems to get heightened by stress and pot or alcohol use.

I'm glad to hear that in the case of your daughter she found something that was meaningful to her. I think my son, the most important thing is going to first get off marijuana and not drink too much. He says he's not doing these things but to be honest it's not something we can trust. And we know we can't come out and say it but he's been more open about using and needing to stop. He says he's not but we can't be sure. I do think he is realizing the drugs are causing his BPD to become unmanageable. Hopefully he will follow through. I think his loneliness not because he doesn't know people. I think it's because of how he's struggling on the inside

My son has plenty of friends but he needs to do things that involve less drinking and things like volunteer work or anything else. We've chatted about it, but like you said you can't tell them. It's one of these things that if he comes up with an idea, the best thing I can do is be his cheerleader.

Thank you for your beautiful response. It was so meaningful to read that having a mother with BPD and disordered siblings is a lifelong sorrow. This is exactly what I feel and am still accepting this. Thank you for validating this deep pain for me.
 At times when it gets too intense, I revert back to believing that the problems are mine to fix and if I only reach out and take care of them, I won't feel this pain. But the truth is, the pain won't go away because they aren't capable of repairing our ruptured relationships and I will never get any closure from them. This truth is an aching wound that I have not fully grieved but I am on the path. I really appreciate your support.

Hello,

I found this message board while searching for "Welcome to Oz", I'm about 100 pages into Stop Walking on Eggshells and my mind has been blown wide open with how much my relationship mirrors that of someone living with a person with BPD.  I have my own issue with porn addiction and have been in recovery for 10+ years (ups and downs) and my spouse has always been able to use my addiction against me.  I have low self-esteem so I unknowingly fell further and further into her beratement over my problem.  The past 5 years I've sensed something was wrong.  There should be grace, foregiviness, and a desire to work on things.  Instead it's been in-house-separation for 2 years with her emotionally and verbally abusing me with my past mistakes.  I had a mental breakdown, fell into depression, and started floating suicidal thoughts.  Thankfully I've gotten help.  I'm on anti-depressants for 1.5 years, seeing a pyschiatrist, and working with a counselor.  Life for me individually has gotten much better.  Life with her is still bitter, distant, and painful. 

SWOE has helped me see that it's not just me, there's more to this story.  As I have prepped for a possible divorce and written out a relatinoship timeline I've seen that there's much more to this than I originally realized.  It's aligning so much with BPD and so many things are clicking into place.  My spouse has, since the start of our relationship, constantly asked me "do you love me?" and accused me of trying to cheat on her, talk to others, or even sleep with others, all without any evidence other than my porn addiction (I promise the extent of my addiction is nothing illegal and is only about medicating through anonymity via pixels on the screen).  I've felt so dumbfounded and confused, as if I'm trying to fight for who I am against my partner, rather than with her.

Muddying the waters is we've got 2 kids now, 7 and 5, and my spouse doesn't work.  We don't have enough money for a divorce, I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.  I don't know whether to stay or go, but staying has felt hopeless for a long time now.  She's told me numerous times that if I want to divorce, go ahead.  But that she's staying b/c she doesn't want to lose time w/our kids, doesn't want to get a full time job, and doesn't want to lose the house.  I feel no hope for her wanting to "work on us"

I don't know what to do, but I know I need to find community and speak up for myself.  Looking forward to dialogue here to help me figure things out.

Hello,

I found this message board while searching for "Welcome to Oz", I'm about 100 pages into Stop Walking on Eggshells and my mind has been blown wide open with how much my relationship mirrors that of someone living with a person with BPD.  I have my own issue with porn addiction and have been in recovery for 10+ years (ups and downs) and my spouse has always been able to use my addiction against me.  I have low self-esteem so I unknowingly fell further and further into her beratement over my problem.  The past 5 years I've sensed something was wrong.  There should be grace, foregiviness, and a desire to work on things.  Instead it's been in-house-separation for 2 years with her emotionally and verbally abusing me with my past mistakes.  I had a mental breakdown, fell into depression, and started floating suicidal thoughts.  Thankfully I've gotten help.  I'm on anti-depressants for 1.5 years, seeing a pyschiatrist, and working with a counselor.  Life for me individually has gotten much better.  Life with her is still bitter, distant, and painful. 

SWOE has helped me see that it's not just me, there's more to this story.  As I have prepped for a possible divorce and written out a relatinoship timeline I've seen that there's much more to this than I originally realized.  It's aligning so much with BPD and so many things are clicking into place.  My spouse has, since the start of our relationship, constantly asked me "do you love me?" and accused me of trying to cheat on her, talk to others, or even sleep with others, all without any evidence other than my porn addiction (I promise the extent of my addiction is nothing illegal and is only about medicating through anonymity via pixels on the screen).  I've felt so dumbfounded and confused, as if I'm trying to fight for who I am against my partner, rather than with her.

Muddying the waters is we've got 2 kids now, 7 and 5, and my spouse doesn't work.  We don't have enough money for a divorce, I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.

I don't know what to do, but I know I need to find community and speak up for myself.  Looking forward to dialogue here to help me figure things out.

You are not alone. So many of the feelings and concerns you have are ones which many of us on this site can identify with.

My mother with BPD is deceased and I am one of many scapegoats from several generations in my family of origin and large extended family. I wanted to help my mother in her later years and could not because of how my siblings were abusing both her and me. I do not feel guilty just sad. I am currently no contact with my sister with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and shunned by most of the family for refusing to continue in the scapegoat role.

It is so hard with your mother still alive. You want to help her yet self care as you are doing has to be the first priority. Know that your feelings are normal and it just feels overwhelming at times to realize how awful the family dynamics are and how little power you have to change the way your disordered family members behave while sabotaging the well being of themselves and the people around them. How do you handle the periods of distress? We can lessen how badly these times affect us in their intensity and duration however having a mother with BPD and disordered siblings are life long sorrows. Do allot times to grieve these losses so you feel less overwhelmed in unexpected moments.

Thank you very much for your reply and kind supportive words. It is helpful to know that I am not alone. I appreciate your ideas and article.  I will take a look. Have a great day.

Are they diagnosed BPD?

What are you hoping for?  You're posting on the detaching and learning board, but it sounds like you're really not over them...

It's up to you what you want to do, but it sounds like she moved on - perhaps to someone else - without looking back.  If you want to reach out, I don't see any harm in that; the worst she can say is "No" or "do not contact me" right?  Just don't have any expectations, and realize if this person ditched you so easily over "feelings" once, they can do it again, even if they seem receptive to rekindling the relationship.  It sounds like you fall hard for people, or at least you did for this person, so harden your heart a bit if she (I think you referred to "her") does open the door. 

This part though:


How much of what she said are you sure about?  If someone I was in a relationship said that to me, I'd probably just move on.  Even assuming she's being completely honest and forthcoming with you, indicting an entire gender over the actions of one (1) person shows a lot of emotional immaturity on her part, and a need to grow up. 

And that's the best case scenario.  if - on the other hand - she's NOT being completely honest, and some or all of that is made up, well she just revealed that she would play games with your feelings & could discard someone she supposedly loves for no reason at all.