There is a difference between self esteem and sense of self. It's subtle but- low self esteem is a constant feeling of worthlessness. Sense of self is about boundaries- knowing what is "you" and what isn't "you". It's also based on several aspects of you that don't change, even if circumstances change.

Job loss can be devastating but even if it did happen- a person doesn't disappear. Someone might be an accountant- and they still are one, they still have the skills. For someone with BPD, this sense of self is shaky, a criticism, job loss, feelings of shame- might feel like self destruction.

My BPD mother had aspect of NPD. She had a strong sense of entitlement and superiority. Yet, she also needed constant proof of this to validate that, by having people act in service to her, by spending money.  Underneath it all, without this external proof, her sense of self was unstable because she relied on this external proof of it. One would see her as having high self esteem and entitlement, but that outward appearance didn't match her emotional self.

PwBPD perceive themselves as from victim perspective. In victim perspective, they are not accountable. The "benefit" to them is not that they do this on purpose- it protects them from feeling shame which is intollerable to them. When your wife complains about someone at work, she perceives this from victim perspective. When you try to help her "fix" this, it feels to her like contradicting this position, and feels like an attack. Your intentions to help are not received like this and the two of you end up in that circular argument.

Understandable that you want this situation to change for the better but you've seen that approaching this logically with your wife doesn't work because these are her feelings and feelings are not logical. To someone with BPD, feelings feel like fact.

Maybe some things she says are outlandish but being dismissive will feel hurtful to her. You also don't have to go along with what you think is lunacy but in the moment, it's not lunacy to her. The benefit to you to see what isn't valid is that you won't react emotionally to it as much. If something isn't true about you, you won't feel as much a need to defend it (JADE). Reacting just adds to the drama.

How this goes is unpredictable. Whether things get better or not, isn't possible to know. A first step is to step away from the drama dynamics, learn about BPD, learn relationship tools like how to validate and not to add fuel to the drama. It seems like your therapist has an idea about the situation. This is the person with whom you can share personal details and so they can guide you on how to proceed with specifics, while you learn about BPD dynamics.

To piggyback off that thought, it's also important to look at the opposite- does your wife ever think, "Maybe this is all in my head, maybe it's actually me?!?"

You questioning yourself is logical and honestly, helpful.  That's how we grow as humans, we self-reflect and adjust what needs to be adjusted.  Yet you're telling us that your wife sees this as an absolute- it's definitely what she thinks and there can be no other answer.  Thinking in absolutes is a prevailing BPD trait- you always do this or you never do that.

If your wife can't think in terms of self when it comes to these issues, it's a colossal red flag and a signal that yes, this could absolutely be BPD we're talking about.  But like Wendy said, we don't need a diagnosis to work with BPD traits within our lives. 

It's the same as if your partner had a fever, body chills, a sore throat, and a congested cough.  We don't need a doctor to tell us she's sick with a cold or the flu.  We know that already and we know how to treat it with home remedies.  The only reason we go to the doctor is for that antibiotic or the good prescription meds that work faster.

So we treat this the exact same way, we learn to communicate in a different way with our loved ones to avoid the crazy arguments, to validate their unstable feelings, and to bring peace back to our homes.  Does that make sense?

Yes, except for low self-esteem (it seems to me) all of that describes her perfectly, at least on the bad days.  As for what made things worse recently, I probably take the blame for that.  After several years of hearing the same complaints over and over, without her taking anyone's advice on how to improve her situation, I became a lot more strident in my suggestions to her and didn't pull back when she asked me to.  The intent to help her was lost to us both in the frustration of trying to force our viewpoints on each other.  Now we are both living through the evolving fallout of those moments.  Without belaboring all the details, I'm kind of stuck about how to improve the situation.  And having found this quasi-diagnosis, it almost makes it too convenient to dismiss her complaints as the ravings of lunacy (which honestly some of them cross that line).  Anyway, thanks for listening everyone, we are still both going to therapy, usually separately.

Hi there,

I'm really sorry about the latest turn of events, but want to welcome you to the group.  In my experience, when pwBPD lash out and try to inflict harm onto the people close to them, it's ususually because they are really struggling right now--facing a setback or disappointment; feeling alienated and not being the center of attention; feeling overwhelmed and generally insecure and/or incompetent; self-medicating with illicit substances and overdoing it.  It's very common on these boards to see pwBPD try to "weaponize" children.  Typically, that would entail threatening to keep grandparents away from their grandkids, or outright estrangement.  This can be painful for everyone, because grandparents often play a vital role in caregiving and providing a stable, loving environment for the grandkids.

I guess the silver lining I see in your situation is that the child involved isn't actually your daughter's.  I guess I'd say, you make sure your daughter is never alone with your grandson, you and/or your ex, not unless there's another adult present at all times.  That way, your daughter can't claim "abuse" as easily, given that there are other adult witnesses involved.  If your daughter is acting really unpredictably and toxic, I think it's not a bad idea to shield your grandson from her.  It sounds like you have good judgment and will do what's best for your grandson.

Alas, anyone can make accusations, even false ones.  PwBPD are known to lie outright, and they often twist facts into a distorted victim narrative that's unbelievable.  If there's an investigation, you and/or your ex will need to cooperate.  Here the general advice is to document, document, document.  My sense is you won't have much difficulty demonstrating that you're excellent parents/guardians.  And you'll have one more incident to go into your daughter's file, which is probably already thick, between interactions with police, social services, the legal system and/or medical staff.

But I suspect you're posting for more than that.  You're seeing your daughter go into a downward spiral, while you're powerless to stop it.  And you probably bear some resentment, anger, despair and grief over the impossibility of having a "normal" mother-daughter relationship.  We get that.  I think you're a saint, for adopting one daughter and letting your grandson live with you now.  Surely you've been a very positive influence in their lives.  But you can't be the only one working on the mother-daughter relationship.  Your daughter needs to work at it too.  If she's being mean or disrespectiful, I think you deserve a break from all that.  You focus on you, and on providing a nice home for your grandson, OK?  You can't "save" or "fix" your daughter, because that's not within your power, let alone your responsibility.  She has to decide to get some therapy to turn her life around, if she wants that.  It is possible to address BPD with therapy, provided that your daughter wants to make some changes.  But she's the one who has to do the work to change, and change is hard (but not impossible). 

Many newly arrived members ask this question, Is it really me?  Often we can read the posts and detect if there is something "off" in the perceptions.  But merely asking the question is an indicator it's not you.  Reasonably normal people are willing and able to ask "Is it me?"  In this scenario, people with BPD traits (pwBPD) typically have high levels of Denial, Projection, Blaming, Blame Shifting and more.

It sounds like the counselor detected indications of BPD in your spouse and pointed you to Stop Walking on Eggshells.  It may not be an official diagnosis.  Many of us never learned of a clear diagnosis and so we have had to make our own observations and conclusions as to Why we are experiencing this discord.

In my own marriage (and divorce) I have never learned of a diagnosis for my spouse.  When we first separated, the court ordered us both to get Psych Evals to get a quickie assessment.  Mine was done by a grad student and - no surprise - I had "anxiety" which was reported to the court and her lawyer.  My spouse?  We never got a report and the court moved on.  To this day, even after years in and out of family court dealing with custody and parenting concerns, I still don't know whether she even complied with that court order.

I too suspect something changed in the last couple years for you.  In my case, we had been married over a dozen years with gradually increasing conflict with her co-workers but when we had a child everything suddenly got much worse than before.

Hi and welcome to the site - you're in good company as we've all gone through the exact same things you're describing. BPD is such a scripted illness it tends to play out almost exactly the same for everyone.. read the many other threads in these forums and you'll see they're identical.

It's hard to understand - and quite a shock - when that first breakup happens; going from  happiness  into sudden detachment and seemingly out of the blue for no reason. but BPD is an illness of high emotions and often the BPD sufferer doesn't know what they want from day to day.


Absolutely! Ironically, BPD causes the sufferer to react more strongly with the person they're closest too - you. This means you get their good and happy days but also their bad ones too.  BPD people can also feel 'swamped and suffocated' by situations that wouldn't bother a non-BPD.  They can be very happy to be in a relationship one day but then suddenly feel overwhelmed at all that's going on and suddenly withdraw - which can involve being seemingly blunt and uncaring to their partner.

BPD is an illness where everything is black and white and there is little middle ground, which leaves them unable to sit down and discuss things logically - as we could - so they tend to go to an extreme and just walk away. It doesn't mean they want to do this, it's simply their emotions running them.

Its not personal so try not to take it that way - though it is very hard not to when it happens. You're treating them great and they then just walk away like you've treated them badly. We've all been through this.

You can give your partner some space when these incidents happen as there's nothing to be gained from trying to push them into getting back - all here have tried that and it never works against a strongly-set BPD mind.

Still let them know you're there for them though, without being too pushy. Again, due to their black and white thinking we have to be careful of our responses; too much response  and they'll feel overwhelmed and back off further, while too little response can make them think you're not interested in keeping them. You need to be a good balancer when with someone with BPD

Try not to be guilt-tripped too - you're doing nothing wrong, you're just with someone who, due to their illness, doesn't have any rules to play by and it can cause us to doubt ourselves and think we must be causing the problems.

Hope this helps a little, I'm sure many more will be along to comment and advise too. Feel free to keep posting - it does us all good to write it down and get it off our chest.

Good morning,
My 35yo adopted daughter’s symptoms have never been this bad.  She has been declining for months and she now has done the worst thing again! I am divorced and  my grandson (her nephew) lives with me.  My daughter with BPD  has reported her father to the children and family services.  She has said that she does not think I am keeping him safe- and that her is accusing her father of sexually abusing our grandson.  This is the second time she has done this.  I do not believe it for one second.  Last time or this time.  She is dangerous, in my opinion.  She can say anything about anyone!  My ex-husband will be devastated if he finds out it is her who made these accusations.  She also now blames me for ‘allowing this to happen’.  That is the worst event of many over the past 8-10 months…
The hard part, too, is that my grandson adores her!  He always wants to see her and call her.  I’m always making excuses that she is working etc… Christmas will be a blow when our traditions will not include his aunty….

Many people here have family members who fit the characteristics of BPD but don't have an official diagnosis. Still, the tools here help to cope with the behaviors as they are relationship tools in general.

One aspect of BPD is to project uncomfortable feelings and an unstable sense of self. Many high functioning professionals have a part of their sense of self invested in their work, and also some cultures place a lot of value in this. It is possible that when your wife isn't employed, she feels badly about herself and may be projecting her feelings at you, (the closest person to her) and possibly co-workers too.

Your statement- there are difficult people in every job situation- is often true.  Jobs require both technical and interpersonal skills. PwBPD can be competent in the job but not able to maintain one due to their interpersonal issues.

However, when your wife comes to you complaining about someone in her job, what she's seeking is validation for her feelings first. When you say something like "difficult people are everywhere" to her, it's your attempt at helping her feel better but to her, it feels invalidating, because it's a "you can fix it" statement- rather than a "I hear you" one.  While you don't want to go into a big complaint fest over it- a change in her response from "you can fix this" to "yes, I hear you" may help in these interactions.

While it may be that the spouse or family member has BPD, if they were to go to therapy, it would have to be their choice, and sometimes they don't choose it. Yet, the spouse/family member can benefit from their own therapy- to help them cope with it and for their own self growth. So the answer- how can you know if your wife has a problem or is it you- maybe both because whether or not she actually has BPD- this is something you are seeing is an issue for the two of you. Individual counseling, where you can speak freely to somone objective can be of help.

That makes sense of why he was keen to get married and feel 'secure'. I guess it's that security that someone with BPD needs due to their empty sense of self and need to belong. It's so very sad really. I now see that all his behaviours have been to compensate for how he feels inside. I just wish, when he'd come across BPD in a self help book and seen himself in it, he would have taken that as a step towards seeking help. Oh well, nothing I can do about that

For me, it steadily got easier as I realized what I could control and what I couldn't.

I could attempt to fix the broken relationships with the BPDs in my life, but only to a certain level.  I apologized for hurting their feelings and I told them that I loved them and want what's best for them.  But then, I had to back off and allow time to deal with everything else.  I couldn't fix what someone else broke within themselves.

As time passed though, I realized that what I could actually fix was right in front of me.  My daily habits, my nutrition, my routines and hobbies and inner circles.  I was 100% in control there.  If I had a tough day, I got in the car and drove...to anywhere.  I'd just get out and explore the world while letting my mind steady itself. 

In time, I started volunteering locally, which was fantastic because I was focused on other people's struggles instead of my own.  That in itself brought healing and put the world into perspective.  I also joined a local gym, I adopted a dog, and I started back with some old hobbies to pass the time. 

But before I knew it, with all the new life goals and activities, I was actually waking up happy.  My life had purpose and direction.  I was making new friends while also realizing which of my old relationships were healthy or toxic.  And my perspective changed even more because for the first time in decades, I was 100% in control of my own life and making decisions based on what was best for me.

I look back at where I was 4 years ago and I barely recognize that person anymore.  He was trapped in broken relationships, hopeless debt, and a very unhealthy lifestyle while always trying to please the wrong types of people.  I put myself last in almost every circumstance and I was lonely, depressed, and just barely getting by....even with my "family" all around me. 

I said all of that to share that you'll get there too.  How long it takes depends more on you than anything though.  How long until you accept what you can actually control and what you need to let go of?  It's certainly not easy, I completely understand.  It is lifechanging though!