I'm so sorry to hear about your dad and I'll say a prayer for your family.  That sort of news is so hard to process.

Have you reached out to your dad at all yet?  Family drama aside, if you want to do that then you should absolutely do it.  Times like this have a way of showing family what really matters in life, and it's rarely keeping decade-old disputes alive.  No matter who said what or who's mad at who, this is a time to forgive, let go, and come together for dad's sake.

I'm so sorry that you're going through this and it sounds like an incredibly scary night. 

I had a similar incident in my marriage after being hit and attacked too many times to count.  I'd say, "If you keep hitting me, eventually I'm going to hit you back."  It was never my intention but when it happens over and over again in fits of hysteria, eventually something's going to give.  One evening she attacked me and was punching and clawing at my face in a frenzy.  Without even thinking, I slapped her back and it knocked her down.  It ate at me for a very long time.  She never hit me again though and I was thankful that the violence was over.  Not too many years after that, she'd start getting into fights with our teenage BPD daughter...they'd explode and attack each other.

With my BPD ex and I, the police were never called.  This was almost 20 years ago and I'm still ashamed of slapping her to this day.  It never should have happened and I hate that I had that moment of weakness, but through time I also see it in a different lens today.  What was supposed to happen?  That she attacked me every time we disagreed, my face gets scratched up, the house gets wrecked from her tantrums and we just did that for the rest of our lives? 

I couldn't see then what I see now; I was in an abusive, unhealthy relationship.  Nobody is meant to take abuse like that and there's a decent chance that it would have continued to escalate.  Just earlier that week, she had thrown a coffee cup and a fork at my head in rapid succession...she just barely missed as I dodged them.  Why?  Because I was washing the dishes and it angered her because she said earlier that she'd wash the dishes.

I hate talking about any of this.  I hate violence and I hate even having these memories.  I hate that I finally slapped her back.  But at the same time, if it helps someone else see that this sort of things is real and it's completely toxic, then I'd rather talk it out. 

Looking back, what I did wrong wasn't slapping someone that was attacking me for the 20th time (or however many times, it happened multiple times weekly).  It was being in that relationship in the first place and allowing the violence to be a daily possibility.  I deserved better than that, our kids deserved better than that, and you can't just keep abusing someone indefinitely without something else happening.  Eventually, it is going to escalate past the point of no return.

I also wonder with my BPD daughter, did she learn to attack others whenever she became upset because she saw mom do it at an early age?  I don't know.  That stuff just doesn't belong in a home in any way, shape, or form though.  It's a cancer and it spreads everywhere.  Violence of any kind is not okay and it is a clear sign that everyone involved needs to take time away from the relationship to recenter and reset.

My ex didn't apologize either.  Why should she, after all, it's all my fault, in her perceptions.  (Although she would demand repeated apologies from me.)  To my knowledge she's never sought therapy.  Now that our child is grown and custody issues are past, the conflict and triggers are greatly reduced.  But I still have to be careful or else I trigger overreactions.


Not much, not without therapeutic guidance.

I've read comments here expounding on the benefit of avoiding "you" or "I".  A passive, non-specific approach is best, sometimes "we" can work.  I don't know whether "we could try a few sessions with a counselor" might work, but if the opportunity arises...

Indeed, I think that "chasing" after him basically serves to validate the notion that you feel guilty, that you "deserve" to be "punished" by his estrangement.  I my opinion it only encourages a continuation of the behavior.  "Begging" him for contact and apologizing for things you didn't do only serves to perpetuate the status quo.

However, I think you ought to reach out on key dates, such as birthdays and major holidays, with a short message like, Happy holiday, hope you are well.  That way, you acknowledge the holiday with respect, and he's "included," but you don't burden the message with emotional content or expectation.  If you wrote something like, "I'd like to see you, it's been ages," I think that's tinged with a guilt trip as well as setting him up to fail (because he doesn't want to see you).  But if you send a short message every few weeks or months, then he can't accuse you of not ever reaching out, while you open the door a crack.  How does that sound?

Hi BpdUDS,

Iam 5 years estranged from my udd and in the early days it was very difficult especially as I have 3 grandchildren.

Im here to tell you that things will get easier. Please look after your self during this time and allow your healing to begin.

Hi,

Thank you for your response. Right now I do feel I am finally in a good place after many years of therapy. He has cut contact completely and I finally just let it happen. I am not fighting it or chasing him anymore. I accepted it. But I did not say -- well, when you are ready we can talk, or the door is always open, which is normally how I respond. I said, fine, that's your choice & goodbye. I'm not sure now if I should be more actively keeping that door open. He is very avoidant and I think if we don't reach out, he will likely never take the first step, at least not anytime soon. He has a history where he doesn't apologize or take any accountability even with damaging behaviours. He just disappears and comes back like nothing happened, behaviour I enabled for many years because I felt so desperate for any contact.

I feel messaging him now to keep the door open is part of the past ways, I'm fixing things. But man it is hard to walk into a potentially long estrangement.     

Hi there,

What you write sounds very much like BPD--the unstable relationships, cutting people out, holding onto resentments, impulsive behaviors, lack of a stable identity, blaming others all the time, emotional immaturity, victim attitude, chaotic lifestyle.

It sounds like you have a good handle on things, despite what must have been years of strife and chaos.  Most parents arrive here operating in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt, with clouded judgment as well.  You seem remarkably clear-headed.  You seem to have erected healthy boundaries to protect yourself as well.  Readers here will understand just how necessary and yet heart-breaking that can be.  I can relate to the ongoing requests for a "fresh start" (aka money from parents while lashing out and treating them badly), and I commend you for drawing a line, because your son is an adult now.  My opinion is that at 26, if he wants a fresh start, he has to be the one to make it happen.

It was at around that age when I made a subtle mind-shift with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  Previously, I'd try to help, fix her problems, provide her guidance, provide free housing, cook her meals, ease her burdens, give her pep talks, etc.  She had a habit of voicing discontent with her current situation and wanting a "fresh start" elsewhere, expecting her dad and me to "set her up" anew.  We did that a number of times, and yet she was still stuck.  But by 26, I realized, she had to make her life happen of her own accord.  Now when she says she wants something, I'll say something like, "I can see why you'd want that, it sounds cool."  And that's it.  Because it's NOT my responsibility to fix her life, provide advice, or facilitate everything for her--if I do, I'm probably just getting in her way.

I agree with Pook, that almost any attempt to discuss mental health issues will backfire, no matter how loving you are and how good, noble and "helpful" your intentions are.  Your son has to be the one to decide he needs professional help, much like he has to decide to stay drug-free.  Others can't force it upon him, and suggesting that he has a problem only feels to him like you're antagonizing, criticizing and rejecting him.  He has to want it for himself.  He needs to be "ready" for a change, typically by hitting bottom and seeing no alternative.  Besides, if he doesn't ask for your advice, he doesn't want it.

As a side note, my adult BPD stepdaughter didn't take therapy seriously until SHE was the one to take an Uber to a hospital and check herself in.  You see, on prior hospital visits, she was driven by her dad, taken in an ambulance or "forced" to go by her mom; she was basically an unwilling passenger.  Only when she was "ready" and she decided herself to get psychiatric help, did the therapy actually start to work.

Your son is only 26, there's still a chance that he could get professional help and turn things around.  My guess is that with a BPD partner, things won't go smoothly for very long, unless they are enabled by someone else.  I could be wrong, but untreated BPD is typically associated with a chaotic life and relationships.

As Tel- Hill mentioned, it did happen that BPD mother exaggerated illness. I did try to speak to a medical provider to get actual information, when possible, sometimes the nurses were more accessible. If possible- can you speak to your father directly? Also ask him to give consent for you to speak to his providers if he's willing to do that.

Keep in mind that anything you say to your father could be shared with BPD mother. This includes her listening to phone calls, seeing emails. Hopefully your father is able to share information.

As Zachira advised- BPD mother did hold it together when others were around, but being alone with her was unpredictable. When I visited, I had someone visit with me, and also I stayed in a hotel. I don't know what your plans are when you visit in the summer. It could be an added expense to stay in a hotel or Airbnb but worth the cost to have a space to yourself.

Hi there,

I'm sorry about the news, surely this is really stressful for you.  I'd caution you that it's possible your mother's BPD behaviors will amp up when there's sickiness in the family.  This could be because of the emotional intensity and uncertainty of the situation, the general stress involved, the rupture of routines as well as attention being diverted away from her.  Cue the feelings of abandonment--potential, real or imagined--and the situation will likely be triggering for your mom.  It's possible your mom will expect everyone to shower her with attention, and when she doesn't get it, she could lash out.

I also like the advice of TelHill to consider pursuing confirmation of whatever your mom says about your dad.  With BPD, there's a tendency to create drama and to stretch the truth to portray the pwBPD as the victim.  I'm not saying your mom is intentionally lying, but if I were in your shoes I'd want to hear another person's version too, ideally from your dad.

I am sorry to hear about your dad. One strategy that works for me when I can arrange it is to avoid being alone with disordered people who are abusive like my mother with BPD was when she was alive and to have other people around that the disordered person wants to look good in front of. Does your mother seem like a nice decent person when around people she wants to look good in front of and with whom she chooses to hide her BPD like behaviors from?