right.  like there is a horror movie type script there: a normal marriage ends at death ("til death do you part") but these wackjobs want some sort of eternal control over you?  Why?  What the heck are they thinking?

When she would bring it up, I would demur and say "If I die before you, I'd WANT you to find someone else and be happy" and try to change the subject. 

I suppose all these things were mentally going in my "reasons to divorce sooner than later" file. 

Thank you Notwendy and Forever Dad for responding. Your input is always thoughtful and helpful.  I am finally getting what was so upsetting for me so I can move on. The way the flying monkey talked to me like I was the problem felt terrible: the contempt in her voice, the lies, putting me down while pretending to be nice at times to manipulate me into disclosing if I would be in town, likely to reassure my sister with NPD that I would not be there.

Then I started thinking about how absurd all of this is. The flying monkey and her sister are planning a complete celebration of life for their mother with church service, burial service, big dinner, numerous close family members attending who live far away who will stay in a large rented house for several days. What is so absurd is the mother has been dead for over five years. The flying monkey did not like her mother. I talked to a friend about this and felt so much better. I am not crazy; the flying monkey and her sister are.

I also realized that the flying monkey is likely a narcissist. She has always wanted to be recognized as one of the golden brilliant children in the family even though she is not gifted intellectually. I can remember how upset she was when her younger sister was chosen for the gifted program and she convinced her to drop out. The younger sister never did well in school and nearly flunked out of college. The flying monkey is recently divorced again. I made some comment about how she always seemed to be doing things alone when she was married.  She immediately got defensive saying some pretty superficial things about all that she and her ex husbands did together like in one long marriage taking three trips together.

My challenge is to limit the interactions. I only answered the phone call because it came from an area of the country where I have many relatives. I need to screen unknown calls, though I do not regret picking this one up. It really helped me to see where I stand with the family And to be more firm about setting healthier boundaries with the family and all their flying monkeys.

I have recently realized that at some level I knew that I was a scapegoat of the family at an early age. I never have really been interested in many of my relatives. My sister with NPD was one of the golden children and always has loved the narcissistic supply she receives from most of the family. 

I'd watch that movie but horror is my favorite genre. Sadly it was my exes too, I miss going with her to revery new movie and both being excited about it. Oh well, at least I took that part of my life back for me.

My ex actually asked every single thing about me. And I told her as much as I could or remembered. Her on the other hand, I really didn't know much about her other than she had a bad childhood. She would just be vague and switch it up on me and ask more about me. I thought it was interest and 'love'. Probably just a way to control me.

I liked what you said here and I didnt think of it that way.. i guess I just feel weird because he keeps swearing hes obsessed with me not that I want that either but he keeps  saying alot of things that say im the only one ansd actions are much different.  If I try and just talk that out just to be honest and tell him my feels im suddenly the worst girlfriend and a bad person and he even devalues me by brining up how many more men i slept with then Him, he some how twists my feelings into somthing that they arnt and tells me they arnt right or its unfair of me to have them. I think that may be a trauma with me . I dont like being told one thing and seeing another. I will take his feelings for her in consideration maybe set him free even though he says thats not what he wants , but i think you may be right there, that im not what he needs because im asking too much then hes willing to provide ATM. I never wanted to hurt him ever or make him feel like he is trapped ...but maybe thats what im doing . Im turning a alittle numb to the situation to be honest.


Does that happen with anyone else? Does anyone else just feel numb after fights with your bpd person ? 

I can understand a non-BPD saying that, meant as an expression of their love and obviously not said with serious intent.. but when a BPD says it, it takes on a truly darker aspect because they really mean it.

Pretty scary that even after they had died, they still want the control over their partner. Imagine being haunted by a vengeful BPD spirit who could appear whenever they liked.  Another possible movie script there..

My exBPD never discussed anything like this but then she actually never discussed much of anything. She is still the one g/f I knew the least about and who asked the least about me.. maybe that was part of the attraction for me; the simplicity of seeing her.

In my relationship, I noticed a bizarre focus on death.  I haven't seen anyone else mention anything like that here, although I've read about threats of suicide, and violence (the latter, more from male BPDers).  I'm curious if anyone else had conversations about death with their BPD partners? 

It really creeped me out, even though I wasn't afraid of BPDxw physically, or intimidated by her in that regard. 

She would occasionally bring up - seemingly out of nowhere each time - her concern that she would die before me, and make me promise I wouldn't see anyone else after she died.  I remember thinking "Where TF did THAT come from?"  Besides, I'm almost a half-dozen years older than her, and men don't live as long as women to begin with, right? 

She once shared a "joke" video with me, where a wife tells a husband she wants a divorce, and he smiles and immediately signs over all his property to her.  Then as he's walking away, she says she's still upset to think that another woman will get him, because he's such a wonderful man, and he says something like "oh, of course," pulls out a gun, and shoots himself in the head.  She thought this was hilarious, but I was thinking "I get the humor, but man, is that bleak," and the fact that she thought it was so funny was unnerving. 

It was just a joke, true, but seemed revealing to me.  I suppose it hammered home that I was just a means to an end for her.

Thinking long term, the words "Do NOT grow old with her" repeated in my head.  and I also couldn't imagine taking care of my elderly parents someday, with her disapproving glare, and "just let them die" kinda attitude. 

Thanks @Notwendy, I really appreciate your answers. I read them multiple times, because I had to think a bit about them.

Actually, I don't know either if it's connected to BPD, you made me see that maybe it's just normal thoughts for her and other women, when their husbands pass.

Like in your examples, I recognise that she changes her mind all the time, so like when you offered to rent a truck to clean all the stuff your mother wanted help to remove, and then didn't wan't it, I guess my only lesson can be that she's in doubt, and - maybe  - I really have to wait for her to say that she wan't it done a certain date, bc then I will do it. But I can also hear, that I shouldn't begin the process every time she expresses her frustration about the carpet, the garden, the ...

When we had snow in january, my mother complained again, because her local and late maintenance guy didn't offer snowblowing any more. I contacted a guy I know on mom's street and asked if his kids would like to remove the snow for a fair amount of money. His 14yo daugther would, and soon I connected his daughter with my mom, and the daughter removed snow almost every second day, and I chose to pay her myself, because I could imagine that my mother could make a problem out of it, because the job took half an hour one day and an hour the next day.

Even though I kept the contact with tha daughter and she did the job fine, and I paid her, and my mom could actually forget everything about snowblowing, because I had solved the problem, so mom was covered just as fine as when she had her maintenance guy doing it.

But even though, my mother kept looking for the daughter every day, and kept control with her work, by looking out the window. And not in a pleasent way, by kind of to see if the daughter didn't do the job well enough.

To me it was kind of a reminder from my childhood where me and my sister always was controlled in the same way, like we were going to cheat and not do the job, and we always finished our jobs.  My mom and dad said they never were perfectionists, but at the same time they always controlled our jobs down to the smallest detail, like I now saw with the 14 girl removing moms snow.

And that made me understand, why I actually have become a perfectionist. It's not because I want everything perfect and that nothing is good enough, it's a method to avoid the critisism from my mom or dad after a job. If I did it really well, I thought I could avoid the critisism. And now as an adult, I'm spending hours on little details in every job I do, because it still lives inside me: that I will get critisism if the job hasn't been done better that perfect. And that's sad actually. Because I was a lot of hours fixing small details that noone would ever see or miss.

But actually your examples and reply has now helped me see that. That it's just one of my mothers 'it can never be good enough' cases and I can shrug it off, and I can defend the poor 14 yo daughter, who's now mowing my moms lawn and mom still give me comments about how the lawn was mown.

I guess I'll never get why dad (who has past) and mom always made such a big problem out of nothing, because if me and my sister didn't a job well enough, my parents could just have told us in a nice way and showed us. Instead it was always a game of "catching us" if the job wasn't done up to my parents standard.

I can shrug it off my shoulders now, so thank you @notwendy   All best Snoopy

I just looked up the plot online.  In a way, showing the way "complete love" or whatever he wishes for, actually manifests itself in extreme social dysfunction and brutal violence like that is brilliant.  But yeah, I don't need to watch it.  Sounds terrifying!

I experienced something kinda similar, in that when I would lose my temper I noticed BPDxw would calm down. 

I would immediately regret the loss of self-control, and think to myself that I had "sunk to her level."  Perhaps that's why she would calm down?  She felt a measure of control in that she had provoked an expected response from me?  Paradoxically, when I'd stay calm, she'd get more unhinged. 

I expected her to use my anger against me, like "How dare you talk to me like that!" kinda stuff, but no, she would just calm down.

It seemed like she grew up around that sort of behavior; her parents were always attacking eachother, cutting eachother down, and her mom would get very hysterical.  There was apparently physical abuse as well, although she claimed it was only one occasion.  I doubt it given that her dad had a drinking problem for a long time, and there was by her own account mutual infidelity throughout their marriage.  Maybe that's the only sort of communication she understood? 

A guy who knew both of us told me after we were divorced that she expected me to hit her.  That was a line I never crossed, and would not cross, but as sick as it is to say, I think there was something to that as well.  Some people who grew up with violence and extreme emotional conditions might get accustomed to them and find comfort in them.

Anyways, don't let fear of what could happen deter you from what you feel you need to do.  Prepare for it, but don't let it control you. 

It's your life, you only get one of them, and if you don't want to spend the rest of it with a disordered spouse, it's your right to say so, and do so.  You don't need another reason, and you don't need to justify it to anyone.

All of us here who endured these miserable relationships have earned that right, and in my opinion are beyond judgment of anyone else, whether they're deciding to divorce a BPD-spouse, or go no-contact with a BPD family member. 

I see a risk here that you feel you "can't pass by indifferently".  We can see that you're not an indifferent person, you have empathy and do try to help.  But there is a risk mixing an emotional relationship with a professional one.

Of course, members here are posting as peer support and not in any professional capacity.  I myself am not trained either as a mental health expert nor a family law attorney, so I'm an outsider, so to speak, looking in.  This is an observation of which I've become aware and have repeated here.


Here's a related observation I made recently after reading one of the books listed on our Book Club board.