I really want to say thank you to everyone who has commented. I appreciate your interest and desire to make some sense of this type of behavior. It means a lot to be able to vent here, and get outside perspectives because I’m often so caught up inside the whirlwind that I really can’t see. And of course, I need to try different responses, because we keep repeating the same behaviors over and over again. No matter how much empathy and validation I produce, it’s never enough and like a drug creates a craving for even more. So I need to feel a little less threatened and hold my ground a little more. I appreciate some of the actual phrases that you have used in your own lives.

After a nightmarish Valentine’s Day, yesterday and today were pretty good. We do not have the standard devaluation / idealization cycling: I definitely get the devaluation, but the idealization is just acceptance that I’m an adequate husband and everyone else is struggling too. “Things are actually pretty good!”What helped is that we took care of our two-year-old grandson yesterday and today and that provides a distraction. She’s actually quite a wonderful grandmother. And on her good days, I see clearly why I was attracted to her and continue to love her, even though she says she doesn’t believe I love her.

The evening of Valentine’s Day, when I was in my bedroom reading shortly before bedtime, she knocked on my door (we sleep in separate bedrooms) and came in very agitated. She was terrified that I was going to come downstairs and attack her physically, and maybe even murder her! At one point, I stepped toward her to give her a hug, and she recoiled in fear! But eventually I was able to soothe her and after maybe 20 minutes she went back down and went to bed. The next morning our grandson arrived early, and there was no further discussion of the disturbance.

Today was pleasant from start to finish, but I’m always on alert because I never know how quickly she might shift into a foul, unstable emotional condition.  One day at a time.

We might even get a temporary separation soon because her very elderly mother probably doesn’t have too long to live, and she lives halfway around the world. She may go to visit her during her final weeks and stay afterwards to help her older sister who is caretaking her mother. She might be gone for a month at least and perhaps two months or more. This will give both of us some space and some time to consider what our future holds.

Thanks again, everyone.

No, I do not think my husband is one of those who are resistant to treatment. My guess is that he is pretty typical in terms of his response to treatment; in fact, he is probably more motivated than some others who never get diagnosed or pursue therapy at all.

I just don't take the words of the study so literally, as I know that what research captures artificially is often very different than how it manifests real life (and I have a background in conducting scientific research, so I am saying this from personal experience).

Have you noticed that the main one who is pursuing all these treatments is you? That's one of the issues - the "mission" really needs to be hers, not yours. If she does not "own it" and take accountability for her BPD symptoms, the treatment won't go anywhere. No one can rescue her except herself. It is very hard to accept this as the partner, but I have found this to be the truth. However, you can work on improving yourself, and how you respond to her, and what your boundaries are, and this may ultimately change the dynamic.

Hi Horselover ,

It seems like your husband could be one of those who are treatment resistant. However, 2.5 years is still not much compared to the 10-year scale. One of the things that makes them treatment resistant is the brain damage that can come from severe psychological stress or physical trauma (traumatic brain injury). But there are options for this, such as EMDR for PTSD and ketamine for resistant depression coming from hard-wired negative thoughts.

In the case of my wife, I'm now looking into medication for ADHD, because that could be one root of her problems. I'm ok with the possibility that she will never recover from BPD. Actually, I'm fine with how things are now, living apart without conflict. Yet, I need to make sure I have tried everything to help her out. I'm on a mission that will only be complete when I have exhausted all possibilities of treatments. If the next medication just makes her sleep better, that will already be a great success for me.

Hi sm1981,

Congratulations for having mastered the courage to take this decision. It's very hard to ignore the provocations or verbal aggressions by text, but to help him out, you must learn to do this until the point at which you don't have to block his messages anymore.

With my ex-BPD wife, I had to block her on WhatsApp because she kept calling me, but first I added her into a group so that she could send me messages through that group, despite being blocked.

With my current wife, who also has BPD, after we began to live apart, I did sometimes get very angry and wanted to block, but I soon figured out how to not get triggered anymore. We are doing very well, and she is sleeping with me for a night today.

Yes, over time the tendency is to toughen up and try to develop a "thick skin," and that's done by suppressing our emotions. In the long term this does not help, but in the short term we are tricked into thinking it does.

However, over time, the holding up of your emotions may make you have a hard time expressing them. Another effect is that the stress may make you feel anhedonia. This happened to me, and I recovered with bottled nutrients that help with stress and can undo the low testosterone problem that happens with men.

My husband has attended 2.5 years of individual therapy with a DBT-informed therapist and has completed 3 rounds of DBT. And this was after doing individual therapy with 2 other therapists (who were not that great), and couples counselling, and trying several different kinds of medication. His behaviours are not even nearly as severe as many other partners have described - mainly when triggered, he dissociates and yells to himself in a loud voice as if no one else is there. He also hates that he yells and says he does not want to do this anymore when calm (but still does).

Here's the thing - if the person experienced trauma, and I don't know if your wife did, but many people with BPD have very early attachment trauma, then in my experience, it is not enough to do DBT. That is a good start, but the person needs to work on processing the intense shame that is the hallmark of BPD and which is generally associated with the trauma they experienced. And that can be a very, very difficult, intense and painful process, which requires a high level of personal motivation to achieve. It cannot be "pushed upon" someone, they have to want very badly to work through their issues. I would not say my husband has "hit a wall", but I would say that it is just a long and challenging process - for some, it may require a lifetime of work to truly become healthy.

You can quote me all the studies in the world, but they are just academic words. I'm not trying to make you lose hope, and there is hope; however, BPD is not that easy to treat, contrary to what you may read. In the past, mental health professional thought it was untreatable, so I think it is great that there are actually therapies now that can work for motivated individuals. However, the authors of the study don't live with the person, and it is difficult to quantify things like what "no longer meeting criteria" actually looks like in real life. So I am not suggesting you give up, but just trying to keep it real - it's not like you do DBT, take medication and you're good to go.

Hi CrimsonBlue, and welcome. Nice to have someone from India here. I'm curious to know if your marriage was arranged. But anyways, let's go to what matters.

I fully agree with Pook075, and his advice is excellent.

However, there is another side of the story. People with BPD have conflict-seeking behavior, and over years it becomes clear that they get something out of it, even though they seem to be in such a poor state during their rants. And based on a theory proposed in detail in 2010, they do it due to an unconscious quest to stimulate their natural opioid system.

While feeling lonely and wanting more time with you is logical, accusing you of cheating with your eyes and being jealous of your sister is not logical at all. If she got angry but remained quiet, it would be just a cognitive distortion, but if she uses it to initiate a fight/argument, then this is conflict-seeking behavior. The entire point is to get you to defend and argue with her. When she first had this problem, before you married, she was unconsciously testing your reactions, because she already expected you to "process it."

My final answer is no, you won't be able to develop a thicker skin for her arguments and fights. It will make your shrink even more. Because once you completely resolve a problem, another will emerge.

My advice is that you should try a living apart together relationship so that you can take control of your well-being and let her know that you'll only move back together if she succeeds in recovering from the disorder (which can take many years). If that's not possible, then you would have to follow the advice of your family (divorce).

I went through a period like that.

After spending so much time dealing with someone else’s emotions, I realized I had turned down my own. Not that I was trying to, it just seemed like the safe thing to do. It’s like my system was in containment mode.

It wasn’t a lack of feeling. It’s like I didn’t trust that it was safe to let go.

Do you find this is something that happens mostly within the relationship, or is it something that happens elsewhere as well?

Hi Horselover,

Can you share how many years of DBT therapy your husband has done? And why is he doing it? Has he "hit a wall"?

It's true that getting them to seek treatment (such as DBT + medication) may take many years to yield results and yet is no 100% guarantee of recovery. And almost all of those recovered will still have a few of the symptoms (since recovery means less than 5). Yet, the statistics for BPD treatment indicate a very good prognosis. The image below speaks for itself.


Source: Ten-Year Course of Borderline Personality Disorder (Figure 2)

You can see that almost 100% of them had affective instability, but 10 years later just 40% of them did. And after 2 years, most of the patients have already been "undiagnosed" (don't meet the BPD criteria anymore). And approximately 85–93% achieved diagnostic remission over a 10-year span.

Ok, I know many don't even get diagnosed or get diagnosed but never actually start treatment. But there are many studies pointing out that BPD is the most treatable personality disorder.

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Mutt,

Yes, I have not explained well what "conditional presence" means. It must be predictable, in the sense that the BPD loved one doesn't get insecure about our affection. They should not view it as "intermittent withdrawal," as that could undermine their sense of self-worth.

I agree that the intention of boundaries should not be to "shape their behavior," but that is what it will effectively do. Using the skills and tools will have a big effect on their behavior with you if you compare it to how it would be if you didn't use the skills and tools.

So you don't target their change, but you put matters in their hands, and you fully accept whatever course they choose to take and results they get. You accept their failure and the end of the relationship, as well as their recovery and the maintenance of the relationship.

Makes sense?

Reading through this thread, I keep coming back to what “conditionally present” actually means in practice. For me, it’s less about leverage and more about self-regulation. If things escalate, I step away. If respect dwindles, I disengage. Not to shape the other person’s behavior, but to protect my own stability.

I do think there’s a risk that newer members might interpret “conditional” as needing to create fear or corner someone. That hasn’t been my experience. The shift for me was internal ~ not trying to win, not trying to manage, just not participating in chaos.

Boundaries without power plays. That’s the balance I’m aiming for.