You all are the only people I can think of to help me think through this. It’s been a long time since I’ve written on the boards, I don’t even remember my old username. Update: Current status, divorced, ex-husband uBPD/NPD, our only child, a son recently turned 13. Son and I lived with protection orders against husband from 2018, long custody battle, legal to include criminal case he didn’t go to prison for, and I had sole custody, until the judge decided to “make up for lost parenting time”, and sent son to live with his father, at age 10. Father has done A LOT to retaliate, along the lines of limiting son’s conversations with me, via coercive control. It’s been rough, but I’m ok, son seems ok enough.

Here’s where I am: son comes to me for summer vacations and every other Christmas /Thanksgiving, and we share custody a long distance, it requires unaccompanied minor plane tickets.

My son is here for the summer! He turned 13 this past spring. I have always provided him with a Verizon Gizmo watch, and a TracFone, so that he can call for help if he’s in trouble. Dad can’t turn off the Gizmo and has no access to parental controls to turn it off. He can take it from him, and son would have to choose to tell if bad things are happening. So far, he has not disclosed anything, he’s probably protecting his father, but, I want to hope for the best and not assume the worst.

I promised my son an iPhone for his birthday, and with that comes, Apple Family Sharing. I’m the account manager. But son is 13 and *could* remove himself from the family in Apple, Apple allows that at age 13.

Here’s where I need wisdom for anyone who has lived this controlling, manipulative coparenting meanness.
While I have my son and the new iPhone I just bought him here for the summer,  what settings, apps, etc. does anyone know of to front load me with discernment and wisdom? I sense there could be trouble on the horizon, and I can feel that I don’t know what I don’t know. I don’t want to find out the hard way.

Can anyone give me a heads up, from experience? What could go wrong, and how could I possibly prevent whatever that is?

Thanks!!

Thank you.  What has kept us together has been faith and family values but I fear it is no longer enough. I don't think I have the strength anymore for the ups and downs. Before my chronic condition progressed, I grounded him. I weathered his tirades and did what I could to keep it away from the kids.

I am compassionate to his problems but I'm worn down.  I don't have the energy for it anymore because I need a low stress environment..  I have to feel physically well to deal with it and now it just feels plan cruel when he's acting out when he knows it could cause me harm.

I'd say that the reality with untreated BPD is that the relationship is mainly one-sided:  all take and no give.  Relationships even with treated, stabilized BPD can still feel lopsided.  I confess, I have felt much less hurt and disappointment when I maintain extremely low relationship expectations of my BPD stepdaughter.  I don't expect any thank yous or sorrys.  I don't expect courtesy calls or texts (e.g. if she decides to stand me up for dinner).  I don't expect her to show any interest in my life such as asking, How are you?  I don't expect her to wish her dad Happy Birthday or Happy Father's Day.  My policy is to invite her to Christmas and buy her presents, but if she doesn't show up, I will put the gifts aside, to give her on another occasion or maybe give them to someone else.  The reason I do this is because, when she's a no-show, she's tacitly communicating her need for space, and I will respect that.  Sometimes she'll be nice and act in a civil manner, and my attitude is, that's a nice change.  But history has taught me that with her, things tend to be temporary, and to expect a permanent change is bound to disappoint.  The kind way to say this is that it's all she can handle to get through the day, and expecting her to be nice to me or her dad, let alone do something for us, is just beyond her capabilities right now.  I'd rather see her focus her finite emotional resources and energy on her own life than "spending" it on doing something nice for her dad or me.  It's better for her that way, as there's less emotional baggage getting in her way.

As for something like a living will, the pwBPD in my life wouldn't be an appropriate representative or power of attorney, no way, because she simply cannot think in terms of other people's best interests and their wishes over hers.  Moreover, she is overwhelmed by mundane day-to-day affairs; I think she couldn't handle a high-stress, emotionaly-charged, administratively complex situation like end-of-life decision-making on someone else's behalf.  I recently went through that situation with my now-deceased father, who succumbed to cancer.  The entire ordeal was extremely stressful for me, combining the loss of a parent with the duties of being a living will representative / PoA / executor.  For context, I feel I'm generally emotionally tough and very capable when it comes to legal/financial/medical administration/logistical matters, which is probably why my parents chose me for this responsibility over other siblings, though they are very competent as well.  There was a point when I made medical and other decisions for my dad (together with my mom), when his periods of lucidity had faded in the last few months of life, and he wasn't deemed competent anymore.  In some ways I regret not becoming his proxy (i.e. taking over) earlier, but I didn't have the heart to take away control from him, when he was still "there," at least part of the day--because feeling in control was so important to him.  There was a dynamic near the end when my mom couldn't convince him to do what was best for him (e.g. take his medicine, bathe, clean his sores), and I was "the only person he'd listen to"--hence the need for a proxy.  Anyway, the whole ordeal wasn't easy, and two years later, I'm still dealing with estate affairs.  I think a pwBPD couldn't handle something like that (i.e. act in someone else's best interests and be relied upon to execute the complicated administrative affairs), no way.  For context, I'm usually a very healthy person, and after the ordeal I had some health issues (insomnia, rashes, inflammation), which I think was a manifestation of the high stress of the situation, of course combined with issues with my BPD stepdaughter.

Hello everyone,

I’m posting here again because I am seeing progress in my life around me. I’ve been doing things that I would never have been able to do while in the relationship like scheduling a dentist appointment to fix a broken tooth I’ve had for a few years, spending more time with my kids and they seem to be very happy without her, and taking care of legal issues she was always stopping me from working on. There is actual progress in my life, probably more than I ever made while we were together, but things still don’t seem quite right.

I think I’m adjusting to living outside of the fantasy space we had together. She was very focused on the way things looked, taking good pictures, making sure the house looked clean, and she was very pretty so it was all flashy from the outside looking in. But it is easy to forget or block out how bad things were when she was not putting on a performance.

I do see progress so I’m not completely down and hopeless or anything. I’m just not used to the ability to get bored anymore. Things have settled and I’m not used to things ever settling. I guess it will just take more time and I just need to keep up what I’m doing and the little changes over time will start to have an impact, right now it’s still just all work without the payoff but it will be worth it someday.

Just venting again, this community has helped me a lot over the years.

Why didn't your years of positive presence make enough of a difference in her life?  BPD is a disorder most impacting to close emotional relationships.  And what is closer than being a couple?  Someone on the periphery of her life or an occasional contact may notice something "off" but once apart the encounter mostly fades. 

This is why you may think your separation has resolved your issues as a couple since the conflict is now mostly gone.  Don't be fooled.  The difference is the distance apart.  If you get back together without therapy having had a positive impact on her life and perceptions, then the prior up/down cycles will resume.

Why can a therapist be helpful when your years together failed?  She's been sensitized to you due to the extended close emotional relationship.  That's a lot of history - emotional baggage of the close relationship - that a person with BPD traits (pwBPD) has an immensely hard time getting past.  The difference a therapist makes is that therapist or counselor does not have an emotional relationship with a client.  The therapist maintains a professional relationship and does not become a friend.

The length of therapy is not the sole criteria.  Many here with spouses in therapy for years report no significant improvement.  That's why we speak of meaningful therapy that is diligently applied over extended time.  Showing up at sessions, even showing up for a few sessions, is not enough.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and I think everyone here can relate to this experience. I would recommend the book Stop Walking on Eggshells (the version for parents) as a great resource in understanding what's happening with your daughter, managing her splitting, and taking care of yourself while learning better communication and boundaries. Her illness is not your fault and it's not your responsibility to fix her. I think perhaps the hardest realization for me has been that all the enabling and caretaking I've done over the years - jumping into action when my daughter has a crisis - have prolonged and intensified her challenges rather than encouraged her to develop those skills directly. I've also given her a very shoddy frame of reference for how she can/should treat me. There's hope and this group will be here for you!

I'm so sorry.  My ex wife also had BPD and that's likely why my oldest daughter developed it.  It is so very difficult but I never once thought about leaving because of our kids.  I don't know if that was the right move or not, to be honest.  I stood by her though until she left me for another man after 23 years of marriage.

I can't tell you what to do here because every relationship is different.  I fought so hard to restore my marriage for about a year, even though I knew she was unfaithful, she refused to return home, and she treated me like garbage.  Over time though, once I got over the codependence bond, I realized that so much of what I considered "regular life" was abusive and toxic. 

In your other post I just wrote that I had a heart attack in my early 50's due to the stress...I meant to type early 40's.

Once I decided that I was moving on and no longer looking backwards, I literally felt 20 years younger.  The stress and chaos was almost completely gone, although I did still have bad dreams from time to time.  I'm guessing that could be PTSD as well, but I never sought a diagnosis.  Today it doesn't exist though and I am very mentally healthy.

As a Christian, I'd say to try to save your marriage by learning to communicate in a different way.  The tips and tools sections at the top of this page are an excellent place to start.  That's the reason I never considered divorce though, because of my faith.  That's probably the only reason and I don't regret letting the kids grow up at home with mom and dad.  But man, I overlooked so much that was horrible in my life to make the marriage work.  I am very thankful that I'm in a different chapter of life now.

Hi ammabear,

Most of what you have written I could have written about my udd at the same age. I know how it feels when we try and try and nothing seems to stick., while to outsiders we are often criticised about our parenting.

For years my udd expressed how much she hated living at home. There were too many rules, it was like a prison, she wanted to leave and she wanted her freedom....all her words. She would stay out all night, rebelled against everything, had no interest in school even though she was top of her academic class and in the gifted programme, bullied other students and chased boys endlessly.
 
Just before her 18 birthday she chose to leave home and cleaned out her bedroom telling us that she would NEVER be back. Again this r/s didnt work out because she decided that she hated being alone all day (while b/f went to university) she hated doing any kind of housework and hated the Eresponsibilities of maintaining a home. B/f complained how messy udd was that she wouldnt even washup the dishes!. That one made me laugh because I knew it was true because udd  would usually make a scene and then storm out of my home when it came to her turn to washup,


Well she returned home several times since leaving but only for short periods but they were long enough to remind me of how much of a strain it had been when she lived here.

Today she is 32yo and has 3 children. We are currently estranged so I dont know too  much about her daily life now other than that she has lived at the same address for over 10years and has successfully maintained a home, paid her bills, has a car and has been in  relationship that has lasted 5+ years so I see this as a success.

So what Iam trying to say is that you need to let your child find his way in life. If he wont comply with basic rules, cant be civil or help around your home and he feels that you are holding him back then it is time to let him see for himself how hard life is outside of your home. You also need to find some peace in your life and be able to enjoy the little things again. One of the things I really appreciate and enjoy in life after having so much choas in my life now is silence. I now know that I tried my best and nothing would have changed udd being the child/ adult that she is.

That's just the thing- CC or I didn't do anything but stand by our boundaries.  We couldn't fix the kids, we couldn't change anything.  Only the kids could do that by their own actions.  And until they're in a place where therapy and getting better is easier than everyday life, they won't take that step.

Every time your son screams at you, he becomes a little more entitled, a little more arrogant.  Why?  If he screamed at a friend like that, they'd probably hit him and never speak to him again.  He knows that.  Yet with you, you're taking the abuse and feeling shameful...that tells his sick mind that he's justified in the abuse, that you actually deserve it. 

He's the victim in his mind, not you.  He deserves so much more and you never do enough for him.

I've said this so many times, that's the mental illness talking.  You can't have reasonable conversations with him when he's in that mindset.  You have to walk away or make him leave because his emotions have taken over in that moment.  Then you can follow up and try to have a conversation when he's more level-headed.

I'll repeat one other thing- my daughter said she hated me consistently, called me the worst things you can call someone.  Yet every time she was in trouble, she called me.  Why?  Because her words meant nothing when she was disordered, she was just venting and having a temper tantrum.  And she never apologized because she was too ashamed.  Again, that's the mental illness aspect of this. 

It's all emotional explosions like a volcano...they erupt and then they balance out for a bit.

I'll say one more thing; currently you and your husband suffer from mental illness.  Not like your son, mind you, because his is permanent.  Yours is due to extreme stress and anxiety, it leads to depression and many other illnesses both physical and mental.  It also takes a severe toll on your body.  For example, my hair was mostly grey in my 30's.  I had a heart attack in my early 50's.  All from stress and worry over my kid.

You can continue to struggle, you can continue to fight a battle that you can't win, or you can set clear boundaries.  I'm telling you, it was the best decision of my life and once I was out of that situation for a few weeks, everything about me began to change.  I slept better, I regained my focus, and I found inner peace for the first time in a decade.  I was horribly depressed and had no idea because that was life, that was my normal.

What I'm saying here is that you are no longer responsible and you need to heal.  Nothing about this is a "you-thing".  It's a mental illness thing and only your son can decide to take active steps to get better.  Even forcing him into therapy doesn't make a lot of sense because he has to want to change.  Until then, the best physicians in the world can't help him.  He has to want to help himself and you have to help yourself as well.

I have been married for over 30 years. We didn't have words like BPD when we got together.  My husband knew he had issues and sought treatment throughout the years with limited success.  I used to say even to him it was like living with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Then I read here that it's what people describe it!

I have read that some posts that women have attended domestic support groups and their partners with BPD tell them it's not abuse.  I have been down the round and finally hit the wall and called a crisis center one day after leaving the house after one of outbursts.  I sat in a park talking to a man from the domestic abuse hotline explaining "my role" and what my husband says I'm doing.  the man said to calmly you know your not safe.  What makes it even more difficult is that I developed a chronic condition that affects my heart so it's turning into a life and death situation. My husband at the time uses physical and as well as verbal intimidation as well as verbal abuse.  I reached out to a therapist and we worked together.  What I thought was depression turned out to be PTSD.  I didn't realize that years of living this way and also having a father with similar issues could lead to that.  There is not an antidepressant for that. 

I told my husband two years ago I was going to leave him that what was going on is abuse and I'm done. He said he'd get help.asked me to give him a chance. He joined a domestic violence offenders group.  Although he did not beat me it was clear to the psychologists leading the group that physical and verbal intimidation abuse.  period.

What the domestic abuse counselors told me, because I wanted hope, was that change takes a very long time but it possible.  My husband at this point thought it was just anger management and he had some depression.

Fast forward two years, my son is diagnosed with BPd he is an adult and doing well in his life but struggles with interpersonal relationships.  My husband finally came to terms with his own BPD. Actually he just likes to call it a personality disorder. He is less physically intimidating which is progress.

He still has outbursts but I guess for him you say he is trying.  After a period of self righteous statements why his behavior was just or what he said was justified, it follows with gas lighting, "I never said that" to apologies, shame and I'm trying.

I have tried "grey rocking" and encouraging words during the good times.  But I just do think I can do this anymore.  I just don't the person who treats me poorly.  I can accept a mental health condition and told him so.  What I can take anymore is how he talks to me when he is going through his episodes.  Yes I'm going through therapy.  But I find while I can not take personally what he says to me (name calling or labeling me) I just don't think I can love him knowing that he could harm me given my chronic illness and it is taking so much out of me to self protect.  t

I think we're in a good place and then all of a sudden he I allegedly say or do things that trigger him.  It's like walking on a field with land mines never knowing if I am going to set one off.

I don't this I'm in the place to manage this any more. I love the kind person he is but it's like only loving half a person and that's not fair to him either.  I can love my child unconditionally with BPD setting healthy boundaries but I can't do the same with my husband. I can certainly set boundaries with him of course and I do but in the end I am finding I cannot be myself and I am just following a BPd script.  He says he loves me so much but year but mental health or not it is difficult to unhear his tone, his name calling and demeaning words. After he apologizes which is doing better to repair quickly he just expects me to bounce back and be my happy self.  It's a vicious cycle.

I guess I just need some support at this point.  I understand how I got here. I've done my own work but the work I'm doing requires me to not blame myself, it's all the same work a person who goes through domestic violence recovery goes through. I feel like the only thing I can do to save myself is leave the marriage.