Hi there,

I have triplet nieces and a nephew who just turned 13, and their divorced dad is a highly dysfunctional, long-term unemployed, undiagnosed NPD.  He is highly combative, toxic, narcissistic and totally unreliable.

I don't have experience with parental controls on devices, so I'm sorry I can't really help you there.  However, I caution against giving any child unfettered access to phones.  I've seen what it has done to my stepchildren, especially in the teen years.  Basically they were addicted to their phones, and they were up most nights attached to their screens.  They were anxious and lost sleep, and they didn't function as well as they might have in the daytime.  I think that two of the kids lost some IQ points, because the consumption of pointless TikTok videos and video games crowded out other activities, such as reading, spending time with friends in person, getting summer jobs, etc.  Basically, they were busy watching other people do stuff on screens instead of doing stuff themselves.  I think the phones robbed them of all sorts of growing-up experiences.  So by college age, they were NOT ready for college.  They all struggled.  I think two of the stepkids fell maybe 2-3 years behind, emotionally, intellectually and socially, and yet they caught up by age 25 or so.  My BPD stepkid fell around 8-10 years behind in my opinion.  Part of the reason was, because the phones are so entertaining, that she spent around five years in her bedroom consuming social media, while not going to school, working a job, volunteering, spending time with peers, let alone helping around the house or even engaging in daily conversation.  Having said that, her BPD behavior and substance use disorder also set her back significantly.  I think if she hadn't had access to a phone, she wouldn't have languished for so long in her bedroom, and she would have gotten help earlier.  And at the end of the period of self-imposed prison, she wouldn't have had such a nasty hit to her self-esteem when she finally came out of her bedroom.  Alas, by the time she did that, all her peers had long moved on . . . graduating, getting jobs, some even getting married.  Since I'm not her mom (just a stepmom), I wasn't allowed to intervene per her dad.  But if she were my kid, I would have insisted that she pay for her own phone--because she'd learn she would have to work to earn privileges, and she'd get out of the house sometimes and have a more normal routine.  When her addictions were so bad that she dropped out or got kicked out of school, then I would have turned off wifi at nighttime, and/or confiscated the phone until her grades came up.

Anyway, onto the 13-year-old triplets in my family.  Their NPD dad wants them to have Iphones so he can reach them.  But in practice, all he wants is to play phone video games with his son.  He doesn't really care about his daughters and barely talks to them anyway.  A huge problem is that NPD dad stays up all night playing video games and sleeps most of the day.  That means he wants to be texting his son and playing online games with him at night, when he should be sleeping, especially during the school year.  NPD dad does NOT abide by any rules, and he does NOT consider his son's welfare at all, nor the impact of not paying attention to his daughters.  So my sister has not allowed her kids to have their own phones, and she also hasn't allowed them to open their own email accounts, either, save for the school email system.  The triplets have access to the internet through their school computers, which had been problematic as well, until the schools "locked down" websites that were distracting the students.  You see, some lessons were done via YouTube, which is highly addictive for the kids.  Anyway, whenever the triplets have screen time, they'll disappear in their rooms to consume YouTube and ignore everything else.  To deal with that, my sister uses parental controls and allows narrow windows of screen time for her kids, after homework has been done.  She feels she has to do this to protect their childhood.  There is a lot of emotional energy expended (begging, debating, arguing, tantrums) around screen time in their home, but I think the kids have gotten used to the routine for the most part, basically a half hour per day.  (When they were 11 and 12, to deal with constant nagging and tantrums about screens in their prior home, my sister decided to discontinue internet and TV service.  Any online homework was completed at school or on the public library's internet.)  Her house rule for personal phones is this:  If dad buys them a phone, that's his perogative as a parent, but the phones stay at his house.  Mom is not buying her kids phones.  If the kids want phones at Mom's house when they are older, then they have to work to earn them, and they have to pay for their own plan.  She says they have talked about this, and the kids agree, because even they know that the phones are too addictive!  Anyway, when they go to dad's house (which is rare, as he's so dysfunctional), they basically spend their time binging with screens.  Dad likes it that way, because the kids are quiet, and he can sleep during the day.  Even the kids admit that though they liked having the phone time, they end up feeling a bit sick and out of sorts afterwards, and they notice that Dad didn't really interact with them at all.  Unfortunately, Dad is not very protective of the kids, and they have seen things like porn on screens at his home.  I'm not sure what can be done about that, short of restricting parenting time.

Anyway, when screen time is limited, then life for kids really opens up.  They have time for hobbies, boy scouts, tinkering, riding bikes, play dates, sports, etc.  They are tired at bedtime and sleep all night, without a screen to disrupt their rest.  They actually speak to adults and are present during mealtimes.

You might wonder, well what if my kid needs to make a call?  What about emergencies?  At home, they have a landline.  Mom has an Iphone to consult onine scheduling and other information related to activities on the go.  If the kids are outside the home, there's always a parent, teacher or bus driver nearby to make a call if necessary.  Just the other day, my 13-year-old niece needed to take an Uber from home to her ballet class, because mom was at work.  Mom used the woman-only driver Uber app on her phone to schedule a pick-up for her daughter at the specified time outside her house.  In other words, the teen didn't need a Iphone to get her ride.  (In the old days, when I was her age, I would have called a taxi service from the home phone, but the Uber app is cooler because Mom can moniter the trip from work).  Now I'm sure Mom and her teen were nervous about this, but my niece really, really wanted to participate in the summer ballet program, and it just wasn't possible for her mom to drive her there while she was at work.  The Uber solution has worked well, and it has been the same lady driver every day.  My niece is responsible and motivated, and she's waiting by the door to catch her ride on time every day.  No phone is even necessary for that.

I don't know if my sister will be able to enforce her rules with the triplets regarding screens as they get older.  My guess is that she will, because she has their best interests at heart.  I wonder if parents are coming around to this view, as phone time is increasingly restricted at schools.  I just can't even imagine making a kid responsible for carrying around a multi-hundred dollar miniature computer everywhere.  It's bound to be lost, broken or stolen in my opinion.  I'd advise, wait as long as you can before giving your kid his own phone.  I'd say make them work for it, too.  And if grades suffer or he quits his activities, take that phone away.  Take the phone away at nighttime too; if your teen needs an alarm, use an old-fashioned one.  Your kid is still a kid, and I'd say, don't let a personal phone rob him of childhood, through constant distraction, or worse, online bullying and/or predators.

I know that's probably a drastic view, but I really think that the convenience and pseudo-"safety" of a phone don't outweigh the very real drawbacks.

What type of relationship are you in?
I am a mom to 8, and our udBPD son is 18 years old. 
 
Who else (if anyone), in child's family, has BPD?
I don’t know, I have wondered.
 
What is your child's strongest quality?
 My  son has a knack for mechanics, he can be kind, and mannerly. He can also be athletic. He loves his extended family a lot.
 
What are the top challenges your child is facing?
 Aside from the BPD, he is depressive, oppositional and defiant. He is also addicted to video games and very immature. He did not graduate high school because he was too busy playing games.
 
What do you find most difficult in dealing with your child?
 His splits, and rage, especially since it is towards me. Immaturity, lack of motivation, and negativity.
 
How would you categorize your child? Diagnosed? Undiagnosed?
 Undiagnosed
 
What do you struggle with yourself?
 Currently I struggle with deflecting his hate and rage against me. Setting hard boundaries and following through. I have also really struggled in trying to keep this all in believing it was not as bad as it was and I felt embarrassed.
 
Is anyone in therapy? Child? Parents?
 If so, what types?
 No, we have done therapy off and on. We need to get that going again with my myself and the siblings that are still with us.
 
What are your goals at bpdfamily.com?
 To of course get support and help. We need resources and guidance, insurance permitting. I don’t want to feel alone anymore in this.
 
TAKE THE PLEDGE HERE 

Let me ask- would your husband consider active therapy if given an ultimatum?  Would he consider marriage counseling?  For your health, something has to change and he will likely be resistant to it.  You'll have to initiate that change though to drive the conversations.

You all are the only people I can think of to help me think through this. It’s been a long time since I’ve written on the boards, I don’t even remember my old username. Update: Current status, divorced, ex-husband uBPD/NPD, our only child, a son recently turned 13. Son and I lived with protection orders against husband from 2018, long custody battle, legal to include criminal case he didn’t go to prison for, and I had sole custody, until the judge decided to “make up for lost parenting time”, and sent son to live with his father, at age 10. Father has done A LOT to retaliate, along the lines of limiting son’s conversations with me, via coercive control. It’s been rough, but I’m ok, son seems ok enough.

Here’s where I am: son comes to me for summer vacations and every other Christmas /Thanksgiving, and we share custody a long distance, it requires unaccompanied minor plane tickets.

My son is here for the summer! He turned 13 this past spring. I have always provided him with a Verizon Gizmo watch, and a TracFone, so that he can call for help if he’s in trouble. Dad can’t turn off the Gizmo and has no access to parental controls to turn it off. He can take it from him, and son would have to choose to tell if bad things are happening. So far, he has not disclosed anything, he’s probably protecting his father, but, I want to hope for the best and not assume the worst.

I promised my son an iPhone for his birthday, and with that comes, Apple Family Sharing. I’m the account manager. But son is 13 and *could* remove himself from the family in Apple, Apple allows that at age 13.

Here’s where I need wisdom for anyone who has lived this controlling, manipulative coparenting meanness.
While I have my son and the new iPhone I just bought him here for the summer,  what settings, apps, etc. does anyone know of to front load me with discernment and wisdom? I sense there could be trouble on the horizon, and I can feel that I don’t know what I don’t know. I don’t want to find out the hard way.

Can anyone give me a heads up, from experience? What could go wrong, and how could I possibly prevent whatever that is?

Thanks!!

Thank you.  What has kept us together has been faith and family values but I fear it is no longer enough. I don't think I have the strength anymore for the ups and downs. Before my chronic condition progressed, I grounded him. I weathered his tirades and did what I could to keep it away from the kids.

I am compassionate to his problems but I'm worn down.  I don't have the energy for it anymore because I need a low stress environment..  I have to feel physically well to deal with it and now it just feels plan cruel when he's acting out when he knows it could cause me harm.

I'd say that the reality with untreated BPD is that the relationship is mainly one-sided:  all take and no give.  Relationships even with treated, stabilized BPD can still feel lopsided.  I confess, I have felt much less hurt and disappointment when I maintain extremely low relationship expectations of my BPD stepdaughter.  I don't expect any thank yous or sorrys.  I don't expect courtesy calls or texts (e.g. if she decides to stand me up for dinner).  I don't expect her to show any interest in my life such as asking, How are you?  I don't expect her to wish her dad Happy Birthday or Happy Father's Day.  My policy is to invite her to Christmas and buy her presents, but if she doesn't show up, I will put the gifts aside, to give her on another occasion or maybe give them to someone else.  The reason I do this is because, when she's a no-show, she's tacitly communicating her need for space, and I will respect that.  Sometimes she'll be nice and act in a civil manner, and my attitude is, that's a nice change.  But history has taught me that with her, things tend to be temporary, and to expect a permanent change is bound to disappoint.  The kind way to say this is that it's all she can handle to get through the day, and expecting her to be nice to me or her dad, let alone do something for us, is just beyond her capabilities right now.  I'd rather see her focus her finite emotional resources and energy on her own life than "spending" it on doing something nice for her dad or me.  It's better for her that way, as there's less emotional baggage getting in her way.

As for something like a living will, the pwBPD in my life wouldn't be an appropriate representative or power of attorney, no way, because she simply cannot think in terms of other people's best interests and their wishes over hers.  Moreover, she is overwhelmed by mundane day-to-day affairs; I think she couldn't handle a high-stress, emotionaly-charged, administratively complex situation like end-of-life decision-making on someone else's behalf.  I recently went through that situation with my now-deceased father, who succumbed to cancer.  The entire ordeal was extremely stressful for me, combining the loss of a parent with the duties of being a living will representative / PoA / executor.  For context, I feel I'm generally emotionally tough and very capable when it comes to legal/financial/medical administration/logistical matters, which is probably why my parents chose me for this responsibility over other siblings, though they are very competent as well.  There was a point when I made medical and other decisions for my dad (together with my mom), when his periods of lucidity had faded in the last few months of life, and he wasn't deemed competent anymore.  In some ways I regret not becoming his proxy (i.e. taking over) earlier, but I didn't have the heart to take away control from him, when he was still "there," at least part of the day--because feeling in control was so important to him.  There was a dynamic near the end when my mom couldn't convince him to do what was best for him (e.g. take his medicine, bathe, clean his sores), and I was "the only person he'd listen to"--hence the need for a proxy.  Anyway, the whole ordeal wasn't easy, and two years later, I'm still dealing with estate affairs.  I think a pwBPD couldn't handle something like that (i.e. act in someone else's best interests and be relied upon to execute the complicated administrative affairs), no way.  For context, I'm usually a very healthy person, and after the ordeal I had some health issues (insomnia, rashes, inflammation), which I think was a manifestation of the high stress of the situation, of course combined with issues with my BPD stepdaughter.

Hello everyone,

I’m posting here again because I am seeing progress in my life around me. I’ve been doing things that I would never have been able to do while in the relationship like scheduling a dentist appointment to fix a broken tooth I’ve had for a few years, spending more time with my kids and they seem to be very happy without her, and taking care of legal issues she was always stopping me from working on. There is actual progress in my life, probably more than I ever made while we were together, but things still don’t seem quite right.

I think I’m adjusting to living outside of the fantasy space we had together. She was very focused on the way things looked, taking good pictures, making sure the house looked clean, and she was very pretty so it was all flashy from the outside looking in. But it is easy to forget or block out how bad things were when she was not putting on a performance.

I do see progress so I’m not completely down and hopeless or anything. I’m just not used to the ability to get bored anymore. Things have settled and I’m not used to things ever settling. I guess it will just take more time and I just need to keep up what I’m doing and the little changes over time will start to have an impact, right now it’s still just all work without the payoff but it will be worth it someday.

Just venting again, this community has helped me a lot over the years.

Why didn't your years of positive presence make enough of a difference in her life?  BPD is a disorder most impacting to close emotional relationships.  And what is closer than being a couple?  Someone on the periphery of her life or an occasional contact may notice something "off" but once apart the encounter mostly fades. 

This is why you may think your separation has resolved your issues as a couple since the conflict is now mostly gone.  Don't be fooled.  The difference is the distance apart.  If you get back together without therapy having had a positive impact on her life and perceptions, then the prior up/down cycles will resume.

Why can a therapist be helpful when your years together failed?  She's been sensitized to you due to the extended close emotional relationship.  That's a lot of history - emotional baggage of the close relationship - that a person with BPD traits (pwBPD) has an immensely hard time getting past.  The difference a therapist makes is that therapist or counselor does not have an emotional relationship with a client.  The therapist maintains a professional relationship and does not become a friend.

The length of therapy is not the sole criteria.  Many here with spouses in therapy for years report no significant improvement.  That's why we speak of meaningful therapy that is diligently applied over extended time.  Showing up at sessions, even showing up for a few sessions, is not enough.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and I think everyone here can relate to this experience. I would recommend the book Stop Walking on Eggshells (the version for parents) as a great resource in understanding what's happening with your daughter, managing her splitting, and taking care of yourself while learning better communication and boundaries. Her illness is not your fault and it's not your responsibility to fix her. I think perhaps the hardest realization for me has been that all the enabling and caretaking I've done over the years - jumping into action when my daughter has a crisis - have prolonged and intensified her challenges rather than encouraged her to develop those skills directly. I've also given her a very shoddy frame of reference for how she can/should treat me. There's hope and this group will be here for you!

I'm so sorry.  My ex wife also had BPD and that's likely why my oldest daughter developed it.  It is so very difficult but I never once thought about leaving because of our kids.  I don't know if that was the right move or not, to be honest.  I stood by her though until she left me for another man after 23 years of marriage.

I can't tell you what to do here because every relationship is different.  I fought so hard to restore my marriage for about a year, even though I knew she was unfaithful, she refused to return home, and she treated me like garbage.  Over time though, once I got over the codependence bond, I realized that so much of what I considered "regular life" was abusive and toxic. 

In your other post I just wrote that I had a heart attack in my early 50's due to the stress...I meant to type early 40's.

Once I decided that I was moving on and no longer looking backwards, I literally felt 20 years younger.  The stress and chaos was almost completely gone, although I did still have bad dreams from time to time.  I'm guessing that could be PTSD as well, but I never sought a diagnosis.  Today it doesn't exist though and I am very mentally healthy.

As a Christian, I'd say to try to save your marriage by learning to communicate in a different way.  The tips and tools sections at the top of this page are an excellent place to start.  That's the reason I never considered divorce though, because of my faith.  That's probably the only reason and I don't regret letting the kids grow up at home with mom and dad.  But man, I overlooked so much that was horrible in my life to make the marriage work.  I am very thankful that I'm in a different chapter of life now.