We are all humans and if someone is being verbally and emotionally abusive-  eventually, we feel pushed over the edge. When we react, we do it to somehow get the other person to stop, or see the impact this has on us and feel motivated to stop, or sometimes if we've resisted reacting, we just can't in the moment.

I had been living away from home for quite some time, and while I did continue to see my parents, during this time, I spent more time staying with them and so experienced more of BPD mother's behavior than before. Seeing this dynamic from an adult perspective, I learned that it didn't do any good and in fact, would mostly be hurtful to me to do it.

For BPD mother, it did feel hurtful in the moment, but her response to feeling that way was to dissociate and project it outward. So she didn't learn from her behavior, and it didn't change anything. I think our reasons to not do this may come from not wanting to hurt the other person, but at this point, I realized that doing this would be hurtful to me too.

In fact, when BPD mother was being hurtful to someone else, sometimes if they reacted to that, she'd be bewildered and think they were hurting her instead. Sometimes she was deliberately hurtful on purpose but other times, she didn't connect her behavior to how someone else reacted. She was overwhelmed with her own feelings. Other people's feelings were not in her perception.

I think another reason we express anger and hurt to someone is because we are invested in the relationship. We want them to see that what they are doing isn't helpful to the relationship. We want to find some way to reconcile. Seeing that this also didn't help achieve that, I didn't see any reason to do it.

It's not wrong to feel anger or hurt. They are legitimate feelings. However, we can choose how to respond to that, and for me, it was keeping some boundaries. They may not have been the same as some in a romantic relationship but I think the general idea- if we feel that way- we need to be able to calm down and then decide how to respond fits all relationships.

All of us here know how precarious those changes are, from "in the marriage" to "separated".  This is a time where risks are heightened, DV is more likely and especially false allegations and petitions for protection.  The disordered spouse will be prone to claim victimhood, whether true or not.  So be especially careful now that you take special care not to appear aggressive in any way (or get "framed for mischief").

I've often framed my comments as "imagine you have a judge watching over your shoulder".

I can't count the number of allegations made against me during our separation and the early years of our divorce.  Of course, child custody was at stake so therefore her allegations, though unsubstantiated, were quite vicious and nasty.  Through it all I somehow remained calm and didn't retaliate in kind.

Thank you for sharing that story Notwendy; that's intense and I can relate to that feeling of sadness that accompanies speaking  your mind.

The triangle is very helpful, I've not seen that before. Thank you for sharing that resource.

I've pissed in the wind three times in this relationship. I can count them on my hand. I regret each one, and  then it happens again when I'm emotionally cornered. Hindsight... woof.

At the later part of my father's life- he was ill and I was upset about that and not in an emotional place to handle BPD mother, I let loose on her and told her exactly what I thought.

It felt good to speak my mind in the moment but also later, regret and feeling badly about myself for that. The position of "mother" is held in high esteem- we are not supposed to speak to our parents like that. I also didn't want to hurt her. I was upset about all that was going on.

Then came the retaliation. I think a "normal" mother could have taken the perspective that if a person is about to lose their father, they are not in a stable emotional place, and would want to  keep the relationship. In another situation, I think both would have been invested in apologizing and reconciliation.

I think it will help to read about the Karpman triangle dynamics. https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle. I think pwBPD maintain "Victim" position on the triangle. Others take on the other roles- Rescuer, Persecutor, but not Victim. The pwBPD is the only "victim".

That is why, if someone else is feeling hurt, or sad- the pwBPD can not perceive this. Understandable that this situation was difficult for BPD mother but she could not also see that it was difficult for the adult children too. So, to her, I could only be in Persecutor position and she would retaliate in self defense.

(Of note- physical abuse was not present in any of the interactions. BPD mother didn't resort to that, and neither did anyone else even consider it.)

I realized that expressing feelings of hurt or anger to her did no good and made the situation worse. It wasn't worth doing. Even though there were times I did get angry, and say angry things in the moment (we are all human) I didn't get angry at her like that again. I could catch myself, stop, and tone it down sooner.  I compared this to "peeing in the wind". Due to projection of difficult feelings- it all comes back at you.

My boundaries became quiet ones. The acronym, from 12 steps is "HALT"- hungry, angry, lonely, tired, and you can add other emotions to them. If I was feeling any of them, it was a sign for me to take a time out, get a grip on myself, and wait until I felt calm enough to interact. If this meant politely, getting off the phone, stepping out of the room, saying "I need a moment" or "I need to think about that" or just going quiet and stop talking. It takes two to have these interactions, one can decide to not keep talking.

Very poignant talk, even if blunt. These are all incredibly important points. Thank you to everyone here for all of your thoughts and input. Navigating the first 24 hours of our separation has gone how you'd imagine it would... I know that even *with* every tool in the chest, I'm only one part of this equation.

This is moment for some blunt talk.  My then-spouse and I had been married for over a decade.  Life was gradually but increasingly getting worse.  Clueless me, I got the idea to have a child with her, hoping* she would reverse course and be happy watching our child discover the joys of life.  Instead, she became even more dysfunctional and discord became more extreme.  (Looking back, I have concluded one factor was that in her eyes I morphed from a husband to a father.  She came from a home with a mother who clung to her abusive stepfather.)

* Promises, wishes and hopes typically turn out to be disappointing "hopium".

As for your situation, your spouse has a child from each of at least two failed relationships.  Ponder the consequences of her getting yet another child - from your failing relationship.

Learn from our experiences here.  Having children with an unstable and disordered spouse makes everything vastly more complicated and distressing.  Even a divorce would be more complicated with the added issues of custody and parenting.

Probably best to avoid having a child - being in charge of birth control decisions - until you have decided which path your future takes.

Hello.  I don't know how you felt when you wrote these words, but if you were feeling bad about letting go of your boundary or saying something non-dbtish, I just want to say, "You're human!"  And it doesn't really make a difference past the very short-term anyway.

I just did the same -- after lots of blaming, lambasting, etc., I let loose with some (truthful) non-dbt frustration and messed up my own boundary of not responding to that stuff.  Then I felt like I should apologize -- even though it happened in the middle of me getting verbally whipped.  Thank goodness, a friend talked me out of it.

I’ve recently been reflecting on my relationships.

The realization that one of my parents was probably somewhat of a narcissistic personality with similar BPD traits.  While they were fully functional, I spent a lifetime trying to please them and smooth over their lack of concern for others and manage their relationships with other people in my life. 

The realization that my relationship with that parent may have made me look for people who need caring/help.   

Noting that I was afraid to really date or be with someone in grade school because of how that parent reacted and might react (plus observing how they acted with my sibling). 

Realizing a lack of self esteem and feeling worthy wrecked a chance at a relationship in high school. 

Realizing being free of my parents in college allowed me to pursue a relationship and fall hard for someone and feeling truly like a real person for the first time in my life. 

Going through a horrible breakup with that person and feeling like I was unworthy of love, and having the same parent not being supportive or understanding beyond stating they wanted to hurt the person and telling me I needed to get over it.   

Falling into a relationship with someone who made me feel somewhat like I did in that relationship, and then experiencing all of the bewildering mind(bleeps) that are being in a relationship with someone with BPD and not knowing why. 

Finding out fairly recently that my first true love apparently has a pattern of narcissism and mistreatment of others while hiding behind a compassionate facade. 

Looking at my current long term relationship and realizing I don’t know who I am, and that maybe part of my problem is never establishing my own self esteem or identity when I am with other people.  Maybe that’s why I am constantly feeling this way. 

Anyone else done this? 

Reading about being a caretaker and read something that resonated with me. 

To paraphrase, a BPD individual cannot handle their caretaker being separate from them in emotions, thoughts, ideas, etc.   The goal is always to make you a part of who they are. 

When I think about it, every discussion recently has felt like both a desire to soothe their feelings that are irrational, but also to make ME feel the same way.   

It explains why I often feel like I’m in a relationship with a lawyer who must prove why their feelings are important and why my own opinions, separate feelings/emotions are irrelevant.   

It’s also fascinating to see the concept that you as caretaker may be part of their problems with object permanence.   The idea that if I’m not physically present, I don’t fully exist in their mind.   

I've dealt with this often insofar as phones and apps and single-user-logins go. I haven't learned a healthy way to prevent the anger outside of controlling variables to prevent the problems, but - as I've learned - controlling too many variables removed my wife's autonomy and created new sets of problems.

I'm newer to the tool side, but in the past year I started delicately not caring when things like the sound bar pushed her into a rage. "That sucks, let me know if you need help" and then letting silence take me to another room. I used to just try and help.

There was a moment where an almost conspiracy like backlash happened with her phone, and that was difficult. She doesn't treat others with intense emotion - particularly strangers - so I found that encouraging her to call the cell provider or go to a store worked well. I don't think it cooled the anger, but it gave her the opportunity to weigh my method of troubleshooting tech versus sitting at an AT&T store for an hour to have someone google a solution.

I'm realizing that "validate and move on" might be the best solution in my home. How do you work through those moments? Particularly without absorbing the emotional impact?