I agree with both Max and Horselover on this. But still, the major books on BPD all mention not enabling. Perhaps it's a mixed result. However perhaps some pwBPD are resistant to any intervention. The thing is- one doesn't know until they tried and it seems both of you have tried. It must have worked for some people or it wouldn't be suggested.

Nothing anyone did ever changed my BPD mother. I wondered if it was because there wasn't therapy for BPD available in her younger years, or if BPD wasn't a known thing yet, or due to my father's enabling.

So why is it that some people choose to stay and keep the current dynamic and others don't, or leave? I don't know that either. I don't mean this to be critical but the "stuck" seems to apply to both partners in that, nothing also changes their mind about staying the course- not the pwBPD's behavior, not advice, and not counseling.

When I left home for college, I knew there were issues with my mother but I had no real clue about all that was going on. I also didn't go home again, except for school breaks, holidays, visits. BPD mother could hold it together for shorter times. I had no idea.

But then, in his elder years, my father got ill and could not keep up his level of enabling. As one might predict, BPD mother's behavior escalated. I walked into this with intentions of helping- from a non dysfunctional perspective of what I thought things would be, and did not expect the emotional whirlwind it was.

But nothing I could do would make any difference for either of them. It was going to go the way it went. I did find the information on boundaries and not enabling to be helpful to me, personally. But again, it's a personal choice.

This is a MASSIVE insight that everyone seems to overlook.  We think, if we can just find the right strategy, then we can "solve" mental illness for our partner and everything will be perfect.  Yet none of us ever have accomplished that long-term.

A BPDs problem is mental illness...it's not their spouse, their parents, their boss, or their kids.  Likewise, it's not their hobbies, their bank account, the stuff in their home, or their car.  They might complain about that stuff, sure, but the reason they're complaining is because they're off-balance mentally and emotionally.

So please catch this- their "problem" is how their mind processes information when they're emotionally dysregulated.  That means the problem is not you, it's not what you're fighting about, and not any of the things they say or do.  The real problem is how they think when they're not okay, and they're not okay most of the time because of self-inflicted mental wounds.

Yes, take what you learned when considering a future relationship, and even in other relationships. Someone's behavior can be hurtful, no matter what their motive is. We don't have to normalize it. We can choose the qualities in someone we consider getting closer to. Nobody is perfect but we can look for communication skills, the ability to be accountable, and how they respond to conflict. Most people can be on their best behavior when first meeting someone. It's when the relationship progresses that we learn more about them.

It's not only in romantic relationships. There are disordered people in the workplace, in friend groups, and families. We can pay attention to our own feelings. Are we anxious around them? Walking on eggshells? Frequently sad? Some forms of relationships are unavoidable- like someone we have to work with, or a relative, so we have to learn to have boundaries with them and still have a cordial relationship to the extent possible. However, for someone who is single as you are, you can be discerning about who to become romantically involved with- next time there's a possibility. Your ex is in the past, so what you have learned could be valuable to you.

Maxsterling, I think you're really onto something. You've described a phenomenon that I have noticed, but couldn't really capture in words. The idea that people with BPD seem to have a different internal motivation system than non-disordered adults, and don't seem to change one way or the other regardless of what you do. This is exactly what I have been grappling with, and it is something I can't seem to wrap my head around or come to terms with, no matter how hard I try.

I've been married to my BPD husband now for almost 5 years. The first year or two were spent trying to figure out what in the world was wrong with him, and also engaging in the constant cycle of calm, losing it, apology etc. When he would have a tantrum and become completely illogical, I would respond in the only way I knew how at that time. I would argue back and try to show him the logic - I rarely raised my voice the way he did  - that's just not something in me to do. But I was very engaged in the argument and responding back.  In the past three years, I came to understand a lot more about his mental health issue and moved towards much stronger boundaries. For myself, not for him. I moved out of the house and went to live with my parents with our young children. I stopped engaging in the chaos - removed myself every single time he escalated and stopped trying to argue with his lack of logic. I also tried being encouraging and loving when he is calm and spending quality time together as a family.

In the past five months, after a big blow up, I decided to try a new strategy - an "experiment" of sorts. Leave him be and let him fix the mess he created instead of helping him to repair it. Even though I backed off for myself, not to change him, I guess a little part of me was hoping that he would rise to the challenge when he saw I really wasn't going to rescue him. For five months now, he has done nothing productive to fix it! He hasn't seen me or the kids, whom he really does love (well whatever love means, sometimes I wonder about that, but I digress). He sends letters to them and to me saying things like "I miss you" or "Here is a postcard of a boat. I hope you like the picture." But he has not taken any action to take control of the situation, it's almost like he is a completely helpless child. He is even in weekly therapy, so I have no idea what they are working on or talking about.

So what is my point in all this? Nothing I have done has made any difference! Maybe that's too strong of a statement, as he probably does have more insight and self-awareness since we got married and a little more self-control. But what you described as the flawed internal motivation system remains unchanged in him. It's like we have completely different goals in life - I keep wanting to put our family together and figuring out how to do that, while his goal is "it's not my fault." Now it sounds funny to say that is a goal, but seriously I think it is. When we would have conversations in the past about what went wrong and how to move forward so we could have a stable family unit, all he could ever focus on is that he didn't do anything wrong, or he has a right to have a voice, or he did something wrong, but I also did something wrong etc. And I just can't wrap my head around why he is so stuck.

The advice on enabling is also a theme in most books on BPD, so I don't think it was ever intended to cause self blame, and yet, it's insightful to see this impact, because, maybe that is how my father reacted too if we brought it up and it wasn't really our business to do so, but it was also puzzling to see the dynamics when we were older and naively trying to help. By participating on the relationship board, I have gotten more insight into their situation.

If the enabling stops, there will likely be a reaction- an extinction burst. It does take a lot of emotional energy to withstand that. It also takes a lot of emotional energy to continue to enable, so really, the choice becomes about your own stress level.

The rage episodes are all too familiar. Congratulations on your ability to not get upset yourself. Would be great to break down for yourself what you did that worked and be ready to continue using it when needed.

My family member has seen a doctor regarding pain. She has Dr shopped for years and I thought this could finally be the one then suddenly he said something and he's off the books too.
It's a situation where she needs medical intervention but she never follows through though. I'm living with her but I'm not giving any more suggestions unless asked . Today she had an anger rage episode so bad that if I'd heard my neighbour making that noise I'd call the police. I kept calm, affirmed and didn't get upset and I'm not upset now. Please tell me if you have had situations such as this.

Anyway, I think I should try not to hyperfocus on the details and hypocrisies and try and absorb the larger lessons. Manipulation and control can be enacted by people who are not all powerful supervillains, who may indeed be quite weak, mentally ill and unstable - in fact, seeming weak or leaning into apparent victimisation can be one way of exerting control. An important thing is to look at my own agency in normalising harmful behaviour, and in allowing agreements to be forgotten or rewritten - this 'normalised' a state of play where the only accountability was to his emotions of the moment.

NotWendy, your comments on shame are so insightful. uBPDx indeed used to sort of escalate the shamefulness of situations where he was imperfect or criticised in a self-victimising manner.

I remember when he first 'confessed' that he had cheated/ had an affair that destroyed his last relationship. In a small, almost childlike voice he asked, 'Do you think I'm a bad person?' He also described spending a long time in freefall/ fleeing to another country (where he met me) in the tumult of having lost that relationship.

But nowhere in this was there evaluation of his own actions - the aspects of his own mental state and choices that led him to cheat. The intensity of his shame, whether intentionally or not, became a kind of deflection. It made me sorry for him feeling bad about cheating, rather than asking the questions I should have (of course, he cheated again, .) Cc43, what you say about a victim narrative resonates here.

I do understand your situation, and so not here to blame anyone, not my parents either. They are both deceased now.

My father made his own choices. I don't think he knew initially what was going on, as they both were young and BPD wasn't known well at the time,  but he must have figured it out later and decided this is what he was going to do. I think he probably already knew what people might tell him, and it seems you've explored the options too.