It is important to communicate with children at an age-appropriate level.  There are several cautions for doing so.

Imagine if you share "BPD" or other specific terms.  It is almost a given that at some point that anyone - whether adult or child - might repeat it to the disordered parent.  And you can guess how that would be received.  And a child may not be able to weather the response.

Mental illness is hard for even us adults to comprehend.  That sort of non-logical behavior just doesn't make common sense.  So children will do better with examples familiar within their frame of reference.

Nearly two decades ago there was a booklet written that was written for minor children, using simple terms, examples and ways to deal with persons prone to periods of poor behavior.  It is listed on our Books board and the booklet is named An Umbrella for Alex.  It is well suited for a parent or therapist to cover and discuss the material.  The story reassures affected children that they did not cause nor are responsible for a disordered parent’s volatile behavior.

There may be other resources for children but this is one I recall.

Ebb, from your posts here, it sounds like you are quite clear in yourself that the right thing to do is to end this relationship, but feel paralysed or struggling because of the pain this entails.

How does this line up with expressing thoughts to your partner about 'not being ready' to have kids? That sounds like quite a different trajectory - that you still see a future in the relationship.

I assume that there is a family text chain I've never been invited to based on my brother letting strategic, short truth bombs out regarding texts he received from various relatives followed by his smirking. One part of me doesn't care but the other part does. I asked a cousin to let me know important news after our cousin passed away and my brother failed to tell me until after the funeral. He wanted me to look bad for not attending. There was a more distant cousin who passed about the same time. I knew about it and wanted to go to the funeral. My brother told me I wasn't invited. I didn't question it but now believe it may have been a lie to make me look bad for what might look like skipping it. True evil.

I have noticed a symptom of sociopathy/psychopathy my brother has which makes his smearing more believeable. It's called a flat effect which goes hand-in-hand with zero to low conscience. He shows zero emotion with a happy, pleasant face. It's not flat like being catatonic but it comes across as calm and in charge. I've seen him lie with this calm demeanor. It's a strange thing to see -- no nerves or fidgeting.  Maybe your sister is the same?

It's good you have some decent relatives looking out for you! If I do my brother has run ahead and smeared me.

Kids are at an age where they can tell when things are off. We fight when they're at school or over text so they don't see much. However they know their dad yells at them sometimes and have expressed how it makes them feel. He is refusing to do things he agreed on ie. appliance arriving tomorrow, now I will have to try to install it myself. How do I explain to these kids why I'm doing this and he's not helping? It's the kind of thing he always does and they will be confused. I don't want to negatively influence their opinion of him, I also don't like feeling like I'm hiding his behavior from them. Feels like I'm protecting him somewhat which feels very unfair. If I say he yelled at me I feel they will side with me because they have experienced it. It would not give me satisfaction, I would hate this for them. Seriously considering divorce at this point, it is quite bad. So they will have questions about that. I don't know how to explain any of this to them but I can't protect them forever.

Sure, zachira. You click Quotebox on the upper right side of the message you want to quote. It pops into the reply box. The code looks like this:

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I don't believe he's looking for friendship. Men often say that if they feel there's a chance to wear you down for a date. I'd be wary if he knows you own a condo. He might give you a sob story about being evicted, losing his job, etc., to move in for free rent. You'll never get rid of him.

It used to be very hard for me too. It takes practice and a few times of being taken advantage of to kick your instincts to protect yourself into permanent high gear.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to me and to offer your support! I think I will forego the online therapist option. I don’t believe I am above therapeutic support, but online is probably not the best way to go. I have taken the Family Connections course and read a lot of books. I know that maintaining good boundaries is key to dealing with her illness. It seems like when she is dysregulated, there is absolutely nothing I can say that won’t incite her. I will wait another day to respond to her and then I will tell her I love her and I can’t communicate with her when she is demonstrating disrespect and anger. If she responds with more hate, I will go quiet again. I know I need to protect myself and my mental health. I want to be there for her, but not as a punching bag. I obviously won’t express that last statement. One of the hardest things about these times with her is that she will never apologize or acknowledge the horrible things she has said. She feels entitled to say these things to me because she believes all of her pain is caused by me. I know, at this point, nothing will be enough for her. That’s the way she rolls when she is dysregulated. Thank you all again for being so kind.

What I have read is that a pairing between a pwBPD and one with NPD tends to be dramatic, and less stable and that the more long lasting pairing is with a pwBPD and a partner with enabling/co-dependent traits. That doesn't mean it isn't a difficult relationship but that it tends to last longer.

I think autism isn't addressed as much due to the more recent awareness of high functioning - Level 1 autism. Someone who is more severely on the spectrum, I think would be less likely to pair up with someone due to the social skill demands. However people with higher functioning can maintain relationships, sometimes it takes some effort. I also think they are less likely to be identified due to being able to "mask" or compensate in a social setting.

I can't be certain about any posters but I think I have seen examples of all three on the board- due to the situations they are concerned about. Most don't use a specific label. I think the most common situation is the partner who has been walking on eggshells and is looking for another solution. Many do not believe that the term "co-dependent" fits them but they do say they have been walking on eggshells and compensating for their BPD partner.

Some posters have idenfied as being on the spectrum. I think more information will come out about this pairing. I have wondered if perhaps my father had autistic traits. He eventually also was enabling but I wonder if that was an adaptation to the relationship with my BPD mother. I didn't ever consider he might be somewhat on the spectrum, before the information of high functioning ASD was available. He would not have been indenfied in this time.

He had a "brainy" edge to him and while I saw him as being sociable, but thinking about it, it was mostly with his like minded peers. He didn't share other interests like sports, or other hobbies one thinks of as "with the guys". However, I also think his free time for that was limited as my BPD mother's emotional needs were high and he also took on most of the parenting role at home.

Personally, I think people on the ASD spectrum have unique skills and these may be their focus. Not everyone needs to be very social, and so if that is not their focus, they may not pick up on some red flags, as you described?


BPD mother's skill set was her social savvy and charm, something someone on the spectrum may not be so skilled at. She could be manipulative. I think someone on the spectrum might not pick up on some of these subtle signs when first meeting her. But also not many people did at first, whether or not on the spectrum. I don't believe he had any idea of her issues when they got married, but others on this board didn't see issues at the beginning either.

Hi Horselover, thank you so much for your message and thoughts. I think why I feel this massive guilt is because I had given her hope, told her that I will get there, and my fawning continued without ever moving forward. I know that my fawning was supposed to be protective when I was young, but as an adult, I feel so much anger at myself, that I let things go on this way and created so much damage. My therapist has repeated this to me as well ("she could have left"), but she has said to me that she wanted to have a life with me, imagined having children with me, didn't want to be with anyone else. Essentially, she kept forgiving me for the many missed deadlines and ultimatums because of the fact that she wanted to be with me, and that just breaks my heart thinking about it all now.


I'm so sorry to hear you are going through these things yourself from the other side. I hadn't realized that it could also go the other way. I imagined that partners of someone dealing with BPD are the ones having doubts. I'm relieved to read that you do not see yourself as a victim, even though I can imagine how hard it has been for you. My partner definitely sees herself as a victim, that I've taken away her chances at the life she wanted to have, and has said as much, even this evening, when I tried to express some thoughts about "not being ready." She broke down and decided to go stay with family in another city.

Sitting here alone now, in the apartment, looking around at all the memories and elements from our life together, I realize that I do miss her terribly in this moment, especially when I sense that this could be nearing an end to the relationship. I don't know why I don't always feel this way in other moments. I start to think that I've been rather foolish, that I've been perhaps sabotaging things unnecessarily. But I also do realize that it's important to have a moment to regulate myself and try to think clearly.

Thank you again for message and your kindness. I wish you plenty of healing as well along your journey with your husband.

Joy, I know it hurts not to be in touch with your daughter.  When you write she had a challenging relationship with your husband, I take it that he's her stepdad, not her "real" dad, correct?  That right there explains a lot to me.  Assuming I've got that right, I'll venture another guess, which is that your daughter never accepted that you remarried, probably because she wanted 100% of your attention for herself.  She couldn't comprehend that you wanted to move on, enjoy the stability of a healthy marriage, find companionship and love with a true partner.  What's more, she doesn't embrace change, because change usually means growth, complex relationships, more responsibilities--all of which seem scary and completely overwhelming to her.  Deep down she wants to retain her "toddler" status, when she got everyone's attention and had all her needs taken care of.  Any threat of change made her anxious, resentful, fearful of the future.  Let me guess some more:  she acted out, created chaos in the household, resented you for remarrying, tried to punish you every way she could think of.  Maybe she "regressed" and became really clingy, literally trying to use herself as a physical and emotional wedge between you and your husband.  Did she have a meltdown at the wedding?  How about at Thanksgiving and Christmas, ruining it for the family?  Did she refuse to do anything with (or for) stepdad?  Did she ignore anything he said, no matter how nice he had been to her over the years?  Did she give him the silent treatment whenever she didn't get her way?  Or maybe she threw tantrums until you both relented?  Did she treat him like an ATM but nothing more?  If my guesses are on target, it's because I lived through something similar.

Yet I think it's actuallly pretty awesome if your daughter is having some success at "adulting."  If she's supporting herself somewhat and carving out an adult's life for herself, I think that shows you did a whole lot right.  Sure, she feels she has to maintain the "I had an abusive childhood" (aka victim narrative) to convince herself that her family is causing her all sorts of problems.  But, if in spite of all that negative thinking and victim attitude, she's still functioning in the real world, that is something to be joyful about.  That's a main goal of parenting:  preparing your kid to funcion independently in the real world.  That's wonderful.

Deep down, I suspect your daughter feels shameful.  She might regret acting poorly and making some bad choices.  Most of all, she might think that you are ashamed of her, and that might be why it's so hard to reconnect with you.  She might be secretly jealous that you have everything (good looks, a loving husband, a nice home, kids, maybe a good career too), whereas she thinks she has nothing, and it's just not FAIR.  She's might feel like every day is a struggle, whereas she thinks other people have it so easy.  She just can't be happy for you (or anyone else) until she's happy with herself.  My guess is that once she's feeling more established as an adult--she finds a steady boyfriend, she gets a job she likes--she'll have a better sense of who she is and where she's going, and she can start to let go of some of the ancient grievances and negativity.  She'll embrace an identity as a functioning adult, not an aggrieved/abused child.  At least that is what I would hope.

In the meantime, I guess I'd advise that you should model for your kids what a healthy adult's life looks like.  That includes taking care of yourself, as well as not fretting about things you have no control over.  It means you enjoy your life with your husband, you pursue your hobbies, and you spend times with your friends.  If your daughter doesn't want to spend time with you, that's her choice and her loss.  But try to give her the benefit of the doubt--she's just not ready to repair the relationship with you yet, because she's working on herself and doing her own thing, and that's OK.  You just be happy that she's doing what makes her happy.

I remember you and how hard you worked on dealing with the relationship your husband has with his mother.

It seems with disordered people that they often start lining up their flying monkeys long before the chosen target becomes aware. Mothers usually love their children more than anybody else in the world. I am sad you are unable to have contact with your daughter while I respect how you have been able to maintain a relationship with your other children.

We do not know what the future will bring. Things can unexpectedly either get much better or much worse.