Had a blowout.  I “started” it by reacting with frustration.   Partner exploded back at me and we went back and forth with me trying to talk about the reason I was upset, SO trying to show me I was wrong.

Words were exchanged, with my SO getting in some highly personalized zingers they knew would hurt and some very specific things I doubt they realized would hurt as much as they did. 

It ended with me being told not to talk to them until I apologize. 

I know how this goes, because it’s the same pattern.  I apologize and no matter what the sincerity, that’s the cue for my SO to lay into me some more and rehash the argument we just had, omitting some details that make them look bad, making sure I cannot respond with anything to explain or defend, and not really ending it, but escalating it.   

And I made one shot at trying to explain how I felt. It was immediately shut down, so I stopped.   They ranted.  I only said I was sorry in response.  Didn’t react.  Didn’t raise my voice.  Didn’t show emotion. 

It was clear that a lack of reaction was something they couldn’t handle.   

The chaos seems to make them feel safer. 

I know I should not have reacted as I did in the moment, nor used that moment ti try and express my frustrations.   I knew it would go nowhere, but the safety switch that so often keeps me from reacting didn’t hold.   

It’s exhausting to try to love someone who does not want to understand you and registers almost anything as a full throated attack on their being. 

I don’t think I’ve ever had an instance where the first apology came from them.  The law of averages and everything I’ve read about marriage would seem to make it clear occasionally the other side will have SOME responsibility.   It’s exhausting when you’re in a marriage where you are the only one seen to be at fault, and the only one who cannot air their frustrations without getting a list of reasons why you’re wrong, or a list of the many ways you are worse.   

Dealing with a teen BPD is a lot different than an adult, and in my case I didn't understand enough about BPD at the time to make any lasting impacts.  With our kid, the police were called many times.  With my BPD ex-wife, there was probably once or twice I should have called, but I never did.

I give that advice when there's new or escalating violence in the home, specifically when it's a mom with an enraged husband and scared kids.  We know things tend to escalate in these relationships so if you're already at getting hit or being threatened, it's time to create some distance.

By calling the police, it's creating a hard boundary (and a lasting memory) that it's not okay to threaten or attack.  Luckily, most relationships don't get to that point.  For example, if my ex wife slapped me, I didn't see that as a threat to my safety.  If she threw a knife at me, that's a different story entirely.

I do think the compassionate approach can be enough, especially in your situation with what you've described and your wife wanting to return home.

While it is natural to feel that the other guy is getting the better part of her, it's not sustainable. I also feel empathy for any child in this situation, and would be concerned too but but he's the parent, and it would be up to him to do something.

For you,  a decision is what you would do if she rebounds to you. If the new man is painted black you may be painted white again. From these boards, I have seen that recycling back to the former relationship is also common. However, you know more now than you did.

While you were able to provide a lot, when there's "not enough", no amount of money or material items might be "enough". My father was able to provide a lot of BPD mother's wishes but he was not infinitely wealthy. There was resulting financial stresses for him, and also financial damage from this kind of spending.

Being divorced, other than court mandated payments to your ex if they are required, you have control of your assets and how they are managed. If you remarry your ex, you may not have that kind of control or choice if you are meeting your wife's "needs" for excessive items.

An MC often works with couples in many different ways: 1) marriage therapy only  meeting with the couple for the full session. 2) marriage therapy meeting with the couple together and sometimes separately with a no secrets policy. 3) marriage therapy with the couple and individual therapy with another therapist/therapists for one or both spouses.

Hi Pook075 ,

I'm a bit confused. I got the impression that you have always been able to resolve your struggles with the BPD people in your life using this mentality. But then, in this other post, you talk a lot about calling 9-1-1 and at times having the pwBPD placed on an involuntary psych hold.

So my question is about the "making them feel loved and supported in every interaction and making them feel like they matter and they're seen" approach.

In that period of your life, did you not have BPD knowledge yet and therefore did not know a better way of dealing with them? Or is it that when living together, the compassionate approach, alone, isn't enough?

By the way, my wife has been calm, just deeply sad.

Hi Win,

My adult BPD stepdaughter had a habit of dredging up ancient slights like that.  On the one hand she was giving vent to her angry feelings, even if they were misdirected.  On the other hand, I felt it was a distraction from the underlying issue of dysfunction in the current moment.  I felt that my stepdaughter would replay those ancient slights in her mind so often that she carved a rut in her brain, and any time she felt stress, insecurity or disappointment, what would she do?  She'd automatically replay the ancient slights in her mind, as a maladaptive coping mechanism.  She'd rile herself up, and usually her anger would emerge through shouting or mean texts, seemingly out of the blue.

I have probably replied before how I take these distorted stories of "abuse" and blame-shifting as a sign that something else isn't going well in my stepdaughter's life.  Usually, over time, I learn what really happened--she got fired, she got kicked out of her rooming group, she failed out of school, she didn't get something she wanted, etc.  I guess I'm saying I take these outbursts as a distress signal, her code for SOS.  She was too ashamed to admit what was really getting her down and dredged up ancient history instead.

Generally I try to listen for the background feelings during the outbursts.  Your daughter said she felt like she didn't fit in.  Maybe she thinks she isn't cute (a common feeling given today's highly curated content in social media).  My guess is that she's angry that she doesn't make friends easily today, and perhaps she's obsessing about her looks as the reason for it.  Maybe she's upset that she doesn't have a romantic relationship, when "everyone else" does.  Does that sound about right?  Maybe what you could do (when she's not having a mood), is point out how pretty she looks, how nice it must be to visit with a friend on the weekend, etc.  I think that with BPD, her general outlook is too negative, and she might discount most of the good things that are happening.  Maybe if you point them out, it will help boost her confidence.  Now my guess is that your daughter is impatient, because she wants everything she wants NOW.  If that's an issue, maybe you can remind her how far she's come in a relatively short time (I'm proud that you finished your first year of college . . . remember how nervous you were at first?  I know it wasn't easy, but you did it).

With my BPD stepdaughter, I think she laments how she doesn't have friends.  I'm pretty sure she lost her old friends because she lashed out at them, and they won't tolerate her mean outbursts.  By the same token, it seemed to me that she didn't try very hard to make new friends.  Since she wasn't working or in school, she wasn't meeting new people.  Sure, she'd engage with social media, and she'd go to bars, but those interactions are highly transactional.  It's like I had to coach her:  The best way to make friends is see people regularly in person, and be friendly!  It can take a few repetitions to develop a rapport.  But the key is regular interaction and a positive attitude.  You can get that by going to school or work, attending a class (like yoga Tuesdays at 7pm), joining a club, learning something new, riding the train every morning at around the same time.  Another way is to support existing friends:  go to their sports games, see their art exhibit, attend their recital.  Even if you think you don't like it, you're supporting your friend, and they will appreciate that.  Alas, I think pwBPD tend to want all the focus to be on them.  They assume they don't like things and tend to miss out.  They say NO I don't like that, when they should be saying YES.  When your daughter was younger, her attitude didn't matter so much, because she was forced to have supervised peer interactions in school.  But now as an adult, she has to be more mindful about creating positive social interactions.  And she can't be a grump all the time, that's offputting.  I think my BPD stepdaughter thinks that smiling is "fake."  Well, sometimes it is, but that's OK, because who likes to hang out with a grump?

Now, if your daughter is "obsessing" about past things that ARE true (albeit distorted), and she's complaining but not screaming at you, maybe what you could do is try to redirect the conversation to the present.  Perhaps something along these lines might work--Yeah, those middle school years are awkward, but you're past that now.  I think you look beautiful, you're really good with your makeup/hair/styling, and you carry yourself with grace, you walk like a ballet dancer.  Then she might disagree with you (I'm not, I hate my nose, my legs are fat), and at least you know what you're dealing with--most likely, a distorted and overly negative self-image.

If your daughter is saying blatant lies (e.g. her dad hit and raped her in middle school), then what I've done is call her out:  That's not true and you know it.  Because validating the invalid gives her "permission" to take things up a notch and spiral completely out of control with even worse untrue allegations, and it doesn't make anything better, because she becomes more firmly ensconced in her narrative of victimhood. 

However if your daughter is screaming at you, my view is that she can't listen to you anyway.  You might try to say:  Let's calm down, this yelling is too much.  If she continues, my guess is she needs a time out to calm down.  Go ahead and give her a time out (I'm taking a break/let's revisit when we can talk without shouting).

Makes sense and something I’ve felt since the breakup, even before knowing about bpd.

She would actually single out three people in particular before the breakup. She pointed her finger at me, her sister and her business partner. We are the three people probably closest to her, and she would say that we were all the problem.

I got discarded for someone else, and her sister used to work for her full time, and left because she felt the ship was sinking, so doesn’t have anywhere near as much contact or interaction with her as she used to. That leaves her business partner, that has contacted me on several occasions distressed and upset by my ex’s treatment of her.

She has put herself in the situation now where I believe she is going to end up feeling trapped. I’m sure she will be trying to regulate her behaviour around the boyfriend because if he decides to kick her out she will be homeless, but I can not see her being able to sustain it.

To be honest I think he is too weak, vulnerable and self centred to put his children first, and to realise both of their toxic behaviour is having a detrimental effect on his children.

I'm glad you were able to deflect some of her anger and change the narrative.  It almost always comes back to their feelings of not being enough, not being appreciated, not being loved or worthy, etc. 

There's a chance that goes away once we say, "Hey, I'm just trying to help here...what can I do?"

The more we say things of that nature, the less need there is to freak out over not being loved, accepted, etc. 

If you're mad at me, and I say, "I'm so sorry you're angry, how can I help," what can you possibly attack me over?  I'm giving you exactly what you're asking for.  And no matter what you respond with, I'll say, "I'm so sorry you FEEL/FELT that way, I never meant to hurt you.  Tell me what I can do."

Can you see the pattern?  I'm giving you the power, I'm putting you in charge.  Why would anyone continue to fight when I'm giving you the win?

Over time, this has massive dividends because it shows arguing leads to arguing, while talking leads to validation.  So talk to me, tell me what you're feeling, and I'll validate what you're feeling is real.  Then we can skip all the blowout drama and just live life.

I am sorry for the loss of your father. I am glad for you that you could be there for him at that time. That's what matters the most.

Both my parents are deceased. They remained married. My father passed several years before my BPD mother. I think in summary- this kind of loss is difficult for even the most stable families. I think in families with dysfunction, it seems to bring this out.

Also, dysfunction affects every member of the family, even if some of them don't have a disorder themselves, because families behave as a system. Both you and your brother are reacting to this situation with the "relationship tools" you each have.

At the time of my father's passing, BPD mother was angry at me. She enlisted other family members to "her side". I have no idea what she may have said to them about me. I felt ostracized. I didn't initiate no contact, but they didn't contact me.

Like you, I was grateful for the support of friends and my father's side of the family. It seemed as if my family was split in two. I heard nothing from my mother's side.

This time was chaotic. PwBPD have disordered thinking and behavior. That your mother shows up as the kind, caring, grieving family member is her way of protecting her self image.

I did retreat from this for my own self care. If this is what you need to do, then do it. Take some time for yourself, keep your boundaries. This is a time of grief and loss for you. You don't need to be emotionally caretaking full grown adults (children do need your care- they depend on you and it's a loss for them too). You may want to consider therapy at this time for your own emotional support. I did it and it helped.

With your brother, I don't think you need to go full NC unless you choose to. He may not have good boundaries. On your part, you can still have them. You've asked him to not discuss your mother, or sister. Know that if he has poor boundaries with you, he also does with them and that anything you say to him is going to be reported back to them. You've been NC with your mother and sister and can keep this up.

You can control the discussion with him. If you have already stated you don't want to hear about your mother/sister and he starts- you can gently remind him "I can't listen to this at the moment, can we change the subject" and if he persists, politely get off the phone "I love you brother and care about you but I can't listen to this. I will call you later" and get off the phone. Essentially- you are teaching him this boundary while also letting him know you care about him and still want to talk to him. You also can control when you are available to speak, or text. "I can't talk right now but I will call you tomorrow" and decrease the frequency of contact to what you wish to have, for now. It may change later but you can prioritize your own self care.

Losing a father is huge, emotionally. Even the strongest person needs time to grieve and self care. Do this for yourself. Grief takes it's own course. Give yourself the time you need. Take care.

What's the MC's proposed plan now? Is it to stop MC and for each of you to have your own individual therapy? Because it seems like what she's saying is that the two of you aren't ready to work with a MC, ie, it's not going to be effective at the moment.