Here is a partial quote from one of the best articles by clinical psychologist Dr Joe Carver:

Dr Joe Carver has long since retired and his website is gone but this link has an entire article to download:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305771.0
If you wish to view his other handouts, read my notes I posted to that thread on using "web.archive.org" to find his archived website.

Dr Joe Carver was a clinical psychologist who practiced in south central Ohio but retired many years ago.  His website is gone now and was last archived at web.archive.org on 21 November 2023.  Search there for "https://drjoecarver.com/3/miscellaneous2.htm" and select from archival dates before 2024.

Here is a partial quote from one of his best articles:

Hi hiiumaa ,

Your second message clarified the interaction well. It seems like you are doing a good job in communicating your boundaries clearly. You also took the right steps that day when you called the police. And I understand how that day has broken something inside you. Because then you realized he was willing to go that far.

When he said, "Thank you for challenging me.", what challenge was he referring to? I was wondering if he was referring to the day in which you called the police, since that was the moment when he understood his limits. Or he could be talking about the challenger being sober?

When communicating a new boundary or when enforcing an already communicated boundary, we have a tendency to do it in a very negative way since we are feeling bad at that moment. I think this is part of what makes it so hard to have a positive effect from it. But if it is communicated in a positive way, there is a much greater chance of things working out later. I know it's not possible to communicate effectively when they are dysregulated, and therefore it's difficult to do validation at the moment, but our mood always has an impact on them anyway.

Therefore, it is important to talk about your decisions when both are calm. This is how I got my wife to agree with our split. I waited until she was in her best mood (and I was too). It almost didn't feel right to talk about the split at that moment, but I was decided, so I pushed forward with the conversation until she positioned herself about it in a reasonable way. A few times I tried to talk about it, and she became hostile or irrational, so I gave up talking but then pushed the topic again on the next good opportunity.

Ideally, your partner should agree with all of your boundaries, or at least accept them (without overeacting to it every time you talk about it). Do you have decisions of which he does not agree with?

Apart from this, what kind of therapy is he doing? In the case of BPD, it should really be a specialist, preferably with DBT. Have you also considered bipolar? It's quite common to have both diagnostics comorbid. But bipolar is not a personality disorder, so it must be treated through the mouth (capsules, a special food diet perhaps, etc.).

That's great to hear! 

I went a similar path; the divorce to my BPD ex took almost two years (mainly due to COVID backlogs with the courts) and I have moved on to find love again. 

I've been married for about 18 months and it's been so night and day different; there are a million little things that my wife does for me that never would have even crossed my BPD ex's mind.  I still catch myself at times thinking, "I can't believe she remembered that..."  For instance, she travelled for work today and searched to find a pizza franchise there that we had on a vacation when we were first dating.  So she hauled a pizza home from three hours away just to surprise me.

That's what happens in a loving relationship when you give everything to someone else and they give it right back.

One more thing I'll add- the skills I learned here over time absolutely, positively play a daily role in my current marriage.  While my wife isn't disordered or anything, I've learned to lean with empathy and consider her feelings before jumping into an argument over something dumb.  If she gets mad over something, I'll let her be mad...but still show her I care in little ways.  Then she comes to me a bit later laughing, apologizing, and all is well in the world.

I can't say when to move on after a BPD breakup, but I can say that you'll be pleasantly surprised when you find someone that loves you for you and it just works.  Sometimes it feels so easy I wonder if I'm missing something, but I think that's learning to let go of those past fears of anxiety.

Hi UndertheBridge and ForeverDad,

Thank you both very much for your feedback!

@UndertheBridge
It's very interesting to read that your relationship seems to have followed a very similar pattern in these cycles of time. It's almost unbelievable how similar it is. May I ask if your partner at the time was in therapy?

@ForeverDad
Yes, I have doubts.
My nervous system keeps telling me very clearly that I am not safe with this man.
BUT I keep getting stuck in my thoughts and feelings during the good phases and tend to repress the bad times. And there is a voice inside me that says, "He is now consistently going to therapy. It just takes time for real change to happen. He already has certain insights – he just can't put them into practice when he's triggered..." I can't bring myself to leave. There are so many emotions that try to convince me that we love each other... That means – I don't even know if he'll come back this time. I'm just assuming he will because he always has. In the last month he sometimes said: "Thank you for challenging me. You are the first woman who does that. It is helpful for me." And then the hope come`s in play...

I've tried the skills over the years. At first, I tried a lot with validation, but to be honest, I gave up again. When he tips over, he tips over so massively that nothing reaches him anymore and it doesn't matter what I do or say. He freaks out. All I can do then is leave ( what makes him feels that I`m cold and not loving... )

I doubt this is what you want from a relationship, since obviously you're here seeking insight, tools and skills.  So, considering you now see his pattern as well as his refusal thus far to change, how much are you willing to tolerate a relationship dynamic like this?  Are you undecided?  Finding it hard to decide which path to take?

It’s good to hear these stories of people on the other side of it. I probably will do an update post myself, but I’m just getting started with this whole process. Finally got my burner phone set up on boost Mobile last week so I’m gonna start contacting attorneys to interview.

I’m all over the place, but mostly super high anxiety of how this is going to go… My biggest concern is she’s going to make false accusations against me to friends, my employer, possibly police and/or just drag this out and make it very expensive for both of us. There’s been a lot of financial damage caused by my wife’s impulsive, spending and refusal to cut expenses so we ultimately have no savings, we have a significant amount of debt already in any legal fees are gonna either be more debt, taken out of IRA or borrowed from retirement accounts, family may be able to help a little bit, but it’s gonna be pretty nominal I think. And unfortunately, my wife’s mother is an enabler and will probably be willing to give my wife a lot of money.

Anyway, yeah I’m in the state you were before you started this process. I’m just afraid of what my wife might do. I mean I’ve seen what she can do.I have some hope that we can split this pretty much down the middle. We don’t have a ton of assets, mostly a couple of retirement accounts, and the house. We’ve been together for over 25 years so my expectation is we would just split everything pretty much down the middle and come up with a reasonable alimony payment and duration. We have an adult disabled child which we both have a joint guardianship over but no minor children.


If you don’t mind me asking, how did you find your attorney and were they knowledgeable of borderline/cluster B? How long did the process take for you from the time you started meeting with the lawyer and filed to now? When do you think everything will be finalized?

 I have read splitting by Bill Eddie, I’m just curious for some real life examples. 

My experiences varied since I ultimately called several times over a ten year span from two different residences (in different cities).  Sometimes the police came out, the BPD played the victim, and they left without doing anything.

Guess what though, the abusive behavior stopped and that was the goal.  Other times it escalated after law enforcement left, and my BPD decided to leave as well (after screaming at me).  One time I decided to leave instead.  But again, mission accomplished.

Several other times, my BPD became enraged that the police or ambulance arrived and they got to see quite a show.  Those times, she was placed on an involuntary psych hold.  A few of those times there was admittance to a psych facility afterwards as well.

Did it "fix everything"?  No.  But this also built a paper trail while enforcing that abusing others in my home is not okay.  It became very clear that if you hit me, I'm dialing 9-1-1.  If you're screaming and breaking things, I'm calling 9-1-1.  If you threaten me, I'm calling 9-1-1.  And guess what....that stuff stopped completely.

There were still some fierce arguments at times, but I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking about the stuff that goes beyond the typical argument.

I will share my own experience the first time I called the police.  Yes, involving the police and the legal system did raise the level of conflict to a new level, but we were already heading that direction anyway, my goal was to change the dynamic enough that I had some say in how the future progressed.

It was a Sunday morning and my then-spouse was freaking out quite angry with me.  She hated the perception of being late, even if we weren't late.  I was almost ready to leave, putting on our preschooler's shoes, when she stormed out and drove away.  I'm sure she expected us to follow and join her at the congregation but I didn't.

By then - this was 20 years ago - I had had obtained a digital voice recorder, quite primitive from today's perspective.  Even in the discombobulated state I was in due to her increasing rants and rages, in the previous months I had managed to get a few rants and rages recorded.

I now describe it as "I recorded myself so I could prove I wasn't the one behaving poorly.  If my partner happened to be aggressive and raging, well, that would be her worry, not mine."  (I add this since we here are so worried that recording the other person might get us arrested for violating privacy laws.  That can't happen if we're recording illegal or abusive behavior.  I've been here 20 years and the only time our members got into trouble and ordered not to record - not even a handful of cases - was when the conflict didn't stop and finally the court said not to record the children.  The court wanted to protect the children, it wasn't the privacy issue of whether to record.)

Back to my Sunday afternoon... When she returned she was in a foul mood.  When it got particularly bad, I turned on my recorder.  I even recorded my own emergency phone call.  She grabbed the phone and ended the call, threatening IWKY.  (That alone, blocking someone from calling for help, is against the law in many jurisdictions.  My court ignored it.)

Well, two officers arrived, one was in a canine unit.  I was holding our son in my arms in the front yard and I distracted him with the dog barking in the vehicle.  I assume the dispatcher didn't tell them who made the initial call since they spoke with my spouse first and even gave her a DV pamphlet.  (That's a consequence of assuming women are always the victim, thank you "Violence Against Women Act".  The fact is that aggression is not always owned by one gender.)

So one officer spoke to me and instructed me to hand our preschooler over to her and "step away".  He shrieked and clung tighter to me instead.  He saved me that day.  (My divorce lawyer, a former policeman, later told me it was policy that the parties were always separated on domestic dispute calls and he was surprised I wasn't carted off.)  The officer looked at me for a long moment, said "work it out" and they left.

Although she was still angry and red-faced, I'm sure she had calmed down enough to tell them how horrible I was.  Why didn't I use my recording right then?  Well, the speaker didn't work and I needed a computer to download the voice file.  Later in the week another officer did return and I played the audio.  I filed a report and she was arrested for Threat of DV.  Her case was eventually dismissed since she did not have a weapon in her hands but by then, though I was initially unprepared, I had filed for divorce.

In summary, I quote the two sentences above because (1) I did document the abuse, the recording being my 'witness', and (2) by the time the officers arrived my spouse was posing as an angry victim and able to deny that she was the perp and I didn't have immediate proof otherwise.

Thank you for the kind and supportive words.

It is January 20th, 2026. Since September of 2022 there have been some happenings that fall in line with what would be expected given the scenario.

Reunification occurred and then was disrupted by the Oedipal Dyad as a means to escape responsibility. Avoid, deny, blame, the old circuits fire without regard for consequences that set upon us after the panic subsides. It was the same as before, but in a new area of sensitivity: sexual behavior. He is a teenager now. The drugs have prompted puberty earlier than it would have otherwise.

By setting the bar low, Mom "won". He was complicit in the downward investments. Neither can see the difference. No more sports. No hobbies. No activities outside. No social groups. It's just safer that way.

In addition to the PSB, there is more violence at school. The social worker suspects violence at home toward Mom. The violence has escalated from student to student, to staff member. There are mitigating circumstances, such as the staff worker was untrained and laid hands first (it was a no-holds school system), but they were elderly and female, so it is pretty bad. The current school is the last stop before delinquency and yet still the ability to avoid is honed and executed because the stakes have never been higher. They train him to not get caught. I asked about virtue, doing good when no one is looking, and they laughed. That is not our job, they say. I point out that it might be their only job, but that's just Plato. Don't bother with the cornerstones of Democracy or Western Civilization. We can do it better, they think.

The school has decided to enter him into their own residential program. We ask why and they move their lips and wave there hands saying meaningless things like we will meet "all of his needs", protecting Mom from losing what she has already lost. As far as I can tell, it is because they have a bed available. The half-dozen students inhabiting their 8th grade program while normally they have over 2 dozen and a waitlist a sign of mismanagement or obsolescence with the extensive IEPs available everywhere else. Never mind the fact that institutionalization is a serious risk factor for PSB. Never mind that the PSB intervention with the Child Advocacy Center (CAC) is at risk, not being complied with, and no real ownership of the issue. Just take advantage of the situation because nobody will ever question it. Things relating to children are secret. Shhh... for their protection. If only secret anything made good people.

I am so happy that we have courts of justice to protect parents from showing their children the model the courts expect of the children. If not for the court, my ex would have to deal with her relational baggage and grow up. Thank god she never has to do that. But now how do we show the child that this is not the way... ultimate power, according to the court, is found by being the victim of others. So why then are we surprised by what we find?

I find consolation mostly in the old stories. In Christianity, the greatest sacrifice is that of one's own son. I offer him, as Abraham before me with his own Isaac, his most precious and desired son and legacy. Sometimes the thing we want most is the thing we must be able to let go. I love you; I do not need you. The modern stories pervert love and it is easy to be swept into feelings-based thoughts on the matter. Love does not make you weak. Love does not make your family weak. This frees me from the trying to change what I cannot and focus on what I can. Be ready. Have space for him. Connect and relate. Tell him stories of virtue and sacrifice. Of aiming upward. Help him to find his values and start to see what it looks like. Of living with intention. And missing.

I have had to take work across the country. I have a new family. Besides this aspect, things are well and better each day. The move frees me from my ex's sphere of pathologic distortion. It is like a cloud lifted. Each day I see a little more clearly just how warped I had let things become internally.

No more. We are done with that. Her games do not lead to victory for anyone but the short-sighted Munchausen clan. That is no way to live.

I will never give up on the son we made together. He is family. We do not give up on family. He is my son and he will be okay. I will ask for things to change with dignity, properly, and let the outcome be what it will be.

JL