When I was divorcing years ago, our Custody Evaluator wrote his conclusions about us and one of the items he mentioned about my ex was Object Constancy.  This is where "out of sight" can be "out of mind" for some people.  So your smells on her clothing reminded her of you.

https://psychcentral.com/disorders/borderline-personality-disorder/object-constancy-understanding-the-fear-of-abandonment-and-borderline-personality-disorder


Your therapist likely was well aware of Borderline PD, they can be are some of the most difficult patients.  Likely he was being pragmatic, knowing that continuing this relationship would keep bringing you back to his office, or another therapist's office, for many years to come.  Not necessarily because of your issues, but because of the troubled (dysfunctional) relationship.

This reminds of my own failed marriage.  When we separated, my stbEx brought our preschooler to a children's counseling office.  She was seeking negative advocates who she hoped would side with her on how evil I was.   Our son was attending sessions throughout our divorce and continued for the next few years.  That was years ago and, if I recall the timeline correctly, when I went back to court after the final decree and gained full custody, his counselor was so happy and prepared to end counseling.  Clearly, they thought the conflict and discord was over.  But our child's counseling had to continue for another couple years until I also gained majority parenting time at which time mother's antics finally reduced.  Only then did son and I have a graduation ceremony of sorts with his counselor.

My point is that your therapist probably has an objective perspective through training and experience, that you with your subjective perspective would likely continue to have relationship issues if you sought to reverse the breakup.

There's a phrase often said here... You can't save them, you're too close to them to fix them, it is up to them to decide to seek their own recovery.

Thanks for the answer.
I just wanna help her because i can see she’s trying i just don’t know how to go to her. Yesterday was lime oop it just happened and we talkted. I wanna show her that im there for her but im scared that she closed off again because of something i said or did yesterday. I asked her that yesterday but she said that no it was fine. I don’t know how to get her to just look at me and stop with the push/pull I realize its not that simple im just lost how we can be fine one second and she’s ignoring me the next.
This is a snippet from my letter and idk if i wrote something I shouldn’t have.

Even when it comes to your health, I think I made a mistake. I’ve read a lot about BPD—not because I wanted to analyze you or put you into some kind of box just because you have this diagnosis. I read about it because I don’t want to leave you alone in this. I wanted to understand your world and know how I can be there for you when things get hard.
But I also know that the internet doesn’t know what’s going on inside your head—you’re the only one who does. So I don’t want to make assumptions on your behalf. I just want to give you the space to tell me when you’re struggling, when you need space, or when you need someone by your side.
I know that maybe what worries you most is that I won’t be able to handle it. That your BPD will exhaust me, that it will become too much for me, and that one day you’ll watch me fall apart and feel guilty for it. And maybe that’s why it feels easier for you to leave now, before any of that can even happen.
But please, don’t decide for me what I can or cannot handle.
Thanks again sorry im just lost and spiraling.

Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm so sorry you're going through this, but literally everyone here who has dated or married a BPD partner has experienced this exact thing.

First, you're not doing anything wrong.  She's completely in her own head and second guessing everything throughout the day.  That's where the push/pull dynamic comes from.  She wants to be with you, but she's scared you'll dump her so she dumps you before you get the chance.  Then she feels terrible so she wants to reconcile, but then she feels guilty for being all over the place, and decides that you're just going to break her heart anyway so she dumps you again. 

And then the entire process starts all over again- this can all happen in days, hours, or even minutes when their thinking is disordered.

How do you save this?  There's no straightforward answer.  If you push too much, she'll run.  If you don't push at all, she'll run.  Mainly, she needs time to process all of this and the time may or may not be on your side.  I'm sorry, I know that's not the answer you're looking for, but it's such a familiar pattern.  She's in crisis and handling it poorly.

Okay so i have an update.
Me and my friend were going to the beach and stopped near her house to go to the store so I called her and asked if she maybe wanted to come so she wouldn’t be in her house all day. She picked up and I heard she wasn’t fine so my friend dropped me off at her house and we went on a walk. It was awkward at first i gave her my letter to read and we talked she opened up to me but she said we won’t get back together but we are “friends” now.I told her later that if hypothetically something does happen in the future i would want her to come talk to me and to not be scared. We laughed we hugged everything was fine. I got home she texted me that her shirt smells like me and i like asked her if she’ll sleep better and she didn’t text me back. I had a therapist appointment today because i wanna work on myself to better understand me and he told me that she gave me a lifeline when she broke up with me and to run. And im like my man what? He didn’t give me the best feeling. She hasn’t texted me since and im afraid i pushed too much or something but everything was fine when i left. Help me please im just trying to understand her and where this is going if it’s going anywhere.

The fact that you calmed down enough overnight to look for a constructive path says a lot. Timing and framing make all the difference with this conversation.

Lead with you, not her. "I don't want to keep fighting like this, and I don't want to keep hurting you either, I want us to get help" lands differently than anything that starts with what she should do. It is hard for anyone to refuse a request that is about your own struggle.

Pick a calm window, not the aftermath of a fight. Even a day or two of quiet makes the suggestion feel less like an accusation.

Offer to go together rather than sending her. Couples counseling feels like a shared project instead of a verdict that she is the problem. If she refuses that too, you can still go alone, and that is not a failure, it gives you tools for whatever happens next.

If she reacts badly anyway, don't argue the point that night. Plant the seed once, gently, and let it sit. These ideas often get processed in private long after the conversation ends.

Hello and welcome to the family.  The dynamic you're sharing does sound like BPD since there are many familiar patterns.  I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

For the neice, I would advise not to send another letter/email.  Why?  Becuase if mom and dad read it, they could wonder why she talked to you in the first place and she could suddenly find herself in your position.  With mental illness, there's always some forms of abuse (mental, verbal, physical) and the neice would know that mom or dad would react very badly to any form of contact with you.  

You're the enemy in their minds.  Their kid goes off to college and suddenly she just happens to run into the enemy and talk long enough to where you'd send her an email?  They're going to think, what did she really say to you, why is she doing this to their family, etc.  For the ugly stuff you've seen on the outside looking in, the nuclear family in that home has seen far worse, far more often.  The neice will be smart enough not to engage with you...not because she hates you, but out of fear of what's waiting at home once mom and dad find out.

For your daughter, the simple answer is the most honest.  You grew apart from your brother, their family keeps to themselves.  There's no need to get into anything else because it doesn't matter.  Lots of us have cousins that we've never actually met or only talked to a handful of times.  I've never even thought about why, and maybe your daughter won't either.

Hi Ros,

That all sounds tragic and really hard to deal with.  I'm sorry about the loss of your dear sister, as well as the loss of a normal relationship with your brother.  That's a heavy burden to carry, even if you're not responsible.

It seems to me like you have a pretty good read into your brother's situation, even if you are currently estranged.  I suspect that your brother's BPD spouse is behind everything.  You see, it's a fairly typical for a pwBPD to try to isolate a spouse from other people, including family.  Why do they do this?  It's impossible to know for sure, but I think it's oftentimes rooted in deep insecurity about the relationship and extreme jealousy.  The pwBPD considers any outside friends or family as "stealing" attention, time, resources, etc. away from the pwBPD.  Basically, unless family members are providing tons of money, praise and/or free babysitting, they are considered rivals, potentially evil.  And the pwBPD will punish a spouse any time he talks about, contacts or fraternizes with other family members.

Your poor brother probably feels trapped--he has to isolate himself, in order to prevent backlash from his BPD wife and keep his home life together.  Over time, he might feel so isolated that he starts to loose his sense of self.  And his BPD wife is relentless, weaving narratives of how the family is abusive and won't give her the money and resources she thinks she's entitled to.  You see, entitlement and unrealistic expectations are typical of BPD.  When her needs aren't being met, she lashes out in intense anger.  A common BPD tactic is to punish others with estrangement, as well as by withholding access to children.  Meanwhile, she surveils your brother and controls his every move.  Eventually, he might actually start to believe her skewed narrative.  He's so beaten down by stress and strife that he can't even think straight.  On top of that, his BPD wife might have hijacked his computer or phone.  She might force him to send messages he doesn't really want to.  She might forbid him from seeing family.  It's possible your brother is subject to "house arrest," not allowed to leave the home unless it's to do his job.  He loses friends, hobbies, time for exercise, etc.  He doesn't have any healthy outlets, and his life becomes overwhelming.  He's probably not his usual self at all.

As for your niece, my guess is that's she's been hearing her mom's stories about how horrible you are for years now.  She's grown up thinking that her relatives are psycho, selfish, disrespectful and unloving.  She might be a little paranoid, wondering why on earth you are contacting her now.  I agree with the other poster, that if you do reach out, do not include any "ask" at first (not even confirmation of receipt), and do not be surprised if she doesn't respond.  I think if I were in your shoes, I'd start by reaching out with short, upbeat messages on key dates, such as a birthday or major holiday--nothing too frequent that might be considered harrassment.  One thing I do sometimes for younger relatives is send a little video clip by text which I think they could relate to (e.g. a happy birthday video clip featuring a dog or preferred hobby like skiing).  I've discovered that I tend to get a heart or thumbs up when I send a video clip, vs. nil response if I send plain text.  I guess I'm saying, I try to adapt to the preferred communication style of the person I'm trying to reach.

Over time, your niece might have a change of heart, seeing that you care enough to remember her and send her well wishes.  It's possible that the more distance she gets from her chaotic childhood home life, the more she'll consider reconnecting with other relatives.  I guess I'm impressed that your niece acted polite when she met you.  That indicates that she's not fully "committed" to estrangement from you.

As for your own daughter, I'd say it will be a long time before you have to worry about what to tell her about family.  While it might be sad not to know her uncle and cousins, think of the alternative:  that she has to spend a lot of time with them when they are so disordered.  A lot can happen between now and the time when she'll be old enough to hear about extended family.  I think you don't worry about that yet.

Welcome, and I am sorry about everything this family has carried, especially losing your sister, who clearly tried to hold this together with a lot of wisdom.

On the niece, one more low pressure email sounds right. Keep it short, warm, and ask nothing, no reply needed, just a door left open. Something like a memory you shared with her, a simple wish for her studies, and your contact details. If her parents do screen her mail, a message that carries no accusations and no asks is the safest kind for her to receive. Then the timing and the choice stay hers, which is really all you can give an adult child in that environment.

On your own daughter, age appropriate honesty usually beats a big reveal later. At a young age it can be as simple as some grown ups in families stop talking for a while, and it is never a child's job to fix it. As she grows you can add layers, including that you kept the door open and protected the family peace at the same time.

The part where you accepted what you cannot change while still caring about them, that is the hard won part. Six years of no contact plus this much compassion for their children says you have not closed your heart, you have just stopped standing in the fire.

Wishing you steadiness.

Hi Pluie.  I'm glad you've made plans, even if they're only temporary at this point.  When I was in your position several years ago with my BPD ex wife, I was just trying to get through each day. 

Going home for a week removes these burdens and that's exactly whay you need right now.  Maybe you decide to stay, or maybe you come back.  Either option is fine and your body will tell you what to do.  Please let us know if there's anything else we can do for you or questions we can answer.  We're here for you!

The big questions are... Is she currently in meaningful therapy?  If so, is she applying what the therapist recommends in her life, perceptions and behavior?  Is she willing to do so for however long it take to see improvement, even if it takes years?

In short, something has to change since you're at your limit.  So... if she doesn't or won't change then it's up to you to change the scenario.

Just a guess, but it sounds like she has told you she is/has BPD and, more or less, take her as she is?


Many here have faced your dilemma... a life-changing choice with children part of the equation.

Choice A:  Continue the marriage or relationship so the child had both parents in the same home.  Problem: Child does not have a reasonably normal home environment.

Choice B:  Try therapy to have the marriage or relationship improve and if not then end the adult relationship.  Court system assigns details of custody, Parenting schedule, vacations, exchanges, etc.  Problem:  Child goes between two homes where (as a benefit) one home is reasonably normal.

Neither choice is automatically good or bad.  Many factors are to be considered.