The reason not to isn't about not defending yourself. It's that it's a waste of your time and energy to do it. Also, in a way it validates it. If it's not true, then there isn't anything to defend.

Defense is necessary when it crosses the line to slander, affecting your work or other important aspect of your life. In this case one needs an attorney.

But the ones where you are falsely accused of nonsense- it's a waste of your time. I compare these arguments to peeing in the wind. It all comes back at you. They project it or dissociate.

An exercise that helped me to resist JADE is to substitute something absurd for the accusation, like calling you a pink elephant. If someone thinks you are a pink elephant, it's so far out there, it's beyond the need to defend it.

Be kind to yourself Zachira - sometimes we don't see it. My BPD mother could have long term friendships with people who had no idea, but then at some point, she'd turn on them, paint them black, they'd either disappear or she'd be done with them, and when she is done, she's done.

She had a neighbor who she was long term friends with. We were very grateful for that neighbor as the neighbor was closer to her than we are and could check on her if we had a concern. Then one day, something happened, I don't know what, and they were no longer friends.

It happened to me too. We had a long friendship with a couple. Then, the wife had a conflict with someone I know casually, and then cut off everyone connected to that person. We were all blocked, unfriended, and she has refused any social events involving everyone-even if that person isn't attending. I have seen the husband a few times on his own and someone asks about his wife, he offers an excuse for her. I know to not bring it up.

This affected me a lot, more than it affected the other people she discarded. To them, they've rationalized that this isn't something they want to deal with. For me, I grieved it. It was difficult. Then it dawned on me- this is the same dynamic I saw in my parents, where my father covered for my mother. I wasn't only reacting to beind discarded by this woman, it was similar to the dynamics with my parents.

I also reacted to the horror of the level of destruction. I didn't even do anything to this woman. My presumed "guilt" was associating with someone she had issues with- real or not. The selfishness of her decision- changing entire family friendships over this.

I didn't see this about her, not for years. I assumed all was "normal". So we may not see it at all, unless something happens and we do. Maybe others see it before we do but we do eventually. Once we see it, we see it. When you know, you know.

The reason to not JADE is basically to save yourself from an impossible endless argument.

You know your BPD partner is talking nonsense and accusing you of the absurd.

You know your truth.

JADE only exhausts you.  Eventually you learn to bite your tongue until you get a chance to walk away.  Any yes, usually happens in the car.  Almost every time.  Focus on the road signs until you are someplace safe and then go for a walk. 

I disagree with this statement & way of looking at it, because this implies that the burden & issue is with the non-disordered partner, and there's something the non-disordered partner could do to resolve the issue.  But there isn't; the issue is entirely within the mind of the disordered partner... whether it's BPD, or some other personality disorder, or some combination of both.

The "Black Hole" analogy is more apt; no matter what you do, the BPD-er will demand more, because it's not about getting any demand met, it's having you chase them.  Their deep-seated insecurity always needs more; they always need to see you pursuing them, because the second you're not, their fears of abandonment kick in. 

I experienced this first hand for years; BPDxw's demands were either impossible to fulfill, vague or contradictory.  Fights were not intended to actually resolve anything, but a means to create the constant attention she needed.  Indeed, during our last abortive attempt at marriage counseling, this issue was brought out when I presented some fairly objective demands to continue the marriage: stop fighting in front of kids and stop accusing me of infidelity.  When the counselor asked her what I could do in return, she said "he needs to love me enough."  When the counselor pointed out that was a subjective standard, and impossible to comply with, BPDxw started yelling at the counselor and refused to go back. 

Thanks Me. It’s great  to hear others have experienced the same nonsense. It’s like they have to find fault with almost everything. Criticise me and judge over the smallest thing then I’m the bastard because I deny or tell her I don’t want to talk about it as it’s not true …and I know where it’s going …to an ending that is once again going to put me down or force me to agree with her , then chucks a wobbly because I’m once again shutting her down. You can’t ever win an argument with them or point out their illogical accusations. I think I have been accused of almost everything …every adjective that’s for sure. Mine even accused me of driving my beloved wife to suicide ! And then refused to apologise and offered all this rationale as to how and why I did such a thing. Shame on me. For allowing things to continue after that.

As for the financial issue, we have made it clear to our daughter that we will only give money for specific reasons. In our case, we will pay for mental health support including co-pays and for education. We learned not to give her the money directly because she would lie to us and spend the money on other things. Instead we pay the university and mental health providers directly.

I know that you didn't ask this, but I do have a suggestion about your estate planning. You may want to consider setting up a special needs trust for your grandchild so that his needs are taken care of in the long run. I don't know anything about your daughter's financial situation but if she's anything like my daughter, I would be worried about the grandson's support as an adult especially after his mom is gone. My great nephew is on the ASD spectrum and won't likely be able to be fully independent as an adult. My sister, my niece, and I worked together to set up a special needs trust so that when he inherits money from us, it will be protected. Large inheritances can disqualify people from Social Security disability payments and Medicaid. If they inheritances go to a special needs trust, then it usually doesn't affect eligibility for disability support. It cost us $3000 to set up the trust with a family lawyer. We are also in the process of setting up a special needs trust in our will for our daughter so that she can get basic needs paid without having control over all the money.

It's worth noting the projection is likely tied to Haltlose Personality Disorder (the sister-ailment as it was titled more in Europe) which diagnostically includes the inability to hold a stable sense of one's self in a place or time (perennial turning over a new leaf, constant I used to be bad until today but now I'm changed)...if the sense of self is so fractured,they just repeat the complaints they know YOU make and put themselves in YOUR shoes...not entirely on-purpose, but just like an infant mimicking the adults they see.q

This is what to expect with these people. My ex was like that too. Always had to start an argument that usually blew up on the drive home and carried on for hours.

And yes, I JADE a lot. To me, it's a common sense way of arguing...you make a crazy accusation up and I just have to accept it? No way. And somehow they never feel safe around us at some point. I never understood that when she's the one who was physically violent. I never even got in her face when arguing.

Hi there,

Welcome back from your trip.  Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but what I see here is that people like to be with you and open up to you.  That's a real asset in my opinion.

However, I agree that revealing intimate information, oversharing and/or emotionally dumping on you in the context of a casual relationship can be a red flag.  I'll give you an example.  My sibling was recently excited about a first date with someone who, on paper at least, seemed ideal.  They had met at a club, and they had some friends and interests in common.  But during the first date, she brought up the topic of prior abuse by an ex, volunteering the information, out of nowhere, using it to explain her reluctance to do certain normal activities.

When my sibling discussed the first date with me, we agreed that this was a giant red flag--oversharing, victim mindset, sympathy seeking--alongside a yellow flag (multiple food restrictions that she volunteered and discussed in detail).  Though at first he was disappointed, he felt fortunate to avoid a minefield.  Here's the kicker:  he was expecting that the date would reach out to thank him, because he had arranged a lovely evening, and he had spent most of it listening attentively, with understanding and patience, to her various "issues."  Well, she never even texted to say thanks.  That absolutely put the nail in the coffin.

I guess what I'm saying is, in a way, you might have the advantage of recognizing toxic behaviors, because you've navigated them for so long.  I think I've learned that, too, to some extent.  I don't think you should beat yourself up for encountering these types of behaviors from time to time.  Actually, I think these behaviors are almost ubiquitous.  In a group, there always seems to be that "difficult" person, who is entitled, demanding, self-centered, a drama queen, finding offense everywhere, manipulative, etc.  I think you're lucky to know it when you see it.  One place I've seen it frequently is in job interviews.  For example, the candidates who are highly critical of their prior workplaces, colleagues and former bosses.  The ones who never seem to stay anywhere for long, and can hardly come up with anything positive to say about their prior experiences.  These are also the candidates who don't extend the courtesy of sending a thank-you.  I guess I'm saying, I think it's important to be able to read the radar screen when it comes to general attitude.

All the best to you.

I had very similar experiences with my BPD ex wife.  If I said something rude, I was a terrible person.  If she said something rude, it was because I was a terrible person and she was the victim protecting herself.  And if I mentioned my feelings, she'd simply say, "That's not a thing...that's not real."

Once we broke up (after 23+ years), I had several of the same back and forth expeirences.  She'd come home, we'd go to do something, then she wanted to leave again.  Nothing happened bad betwen us, mind you, so the reasoning was all in her head and not based on our reality.  She just checked out and refused to let herself even consider that she was making a mistake.

Why?  I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd think its because she put herself through so much mental anguish over deciding whether to stay or leave, to convince herself that I was a complete monster, that she couldn't see a way back from it.  She'd say things like, "If i come home and decide to leave again, then I'm never coming back!" 

And I'd think, huh.  So you want to come home, but you know that eventually you'll want to leave and if that happens, then you'd never come back another time.  That's like grandmaster chess planning, only without using an ounce of logic.  Absolutely nothing about her thought process had anything to do with me- it was all her unregulated emotions.

Oh, and she was having an affair...that's the nugget that we learned later.  So it REALLY wasn't about me at all, even when she said terrible things about me to justify her secret hookups.  It was all projection.