I do understand your situation, and so not here to blame anyone, not my parents either. They are both deceased now.

My father made his own choices. I don't think he knew initially what was going on, as they both were young and BPD wasn't known well at the time,  but he must have figured it out later and decided this is what he was going to do. I think he probably already knew what people might tell him, and it seems you've explored the options too.

Pook - Wendy -

I understand what you are saying.  That's the way it works for emotionally stable non-disordered adults.  We learn from hardships or mistakes and make changes. Doing things for other adults that they can do themselves does not prevent them from having the possibility of learning how to take care of themselves.  For us non-disordered people, we have internal motivations to learn and do things we want to do.

My kids are that way.  Sometimes they tell me, "daddy, I want to do that myself now."  I might have internal motivations to start a new hobby, to cook something challenging, or fill out a 1040 form with paper, pencil, and slide rule - because I want to.  We often do these things on their own without worrying about consequences for not doing them.  

I'm not sure about all pwBPD, but that seems to be the component my W lacks - the "I want to."  She has plenty of motivation to take action - on her own - no matter what I do or don't do for her.  She complains of a lack of money, yet that is not a motivation for her to keep a job.  She complains about a lack of friends, yet that is not a motivation for her to treat others better.  She complains about the kids' behavior - yet that is not a motivator for her to be more present for them.  If she is faced with a real threat (such as getting arrested or a partner breaking up with her), she either temporarily changes or contemplates suicide, but the root cause and pattern remains.  

Yes, if I am not around W will find her own food eventually.  Hunger is a motivator.  But it doesn't change the underlying problem of a lack of internal motivation to enact change - to not let herself get hungry in the first place.  Her internal motivation is to find other people from whom she can borrow an identity.  In other words, she is now motivated to do things for her new girlfriend (such as laundry) but not motivated to do the same things for her own kids.  Why?  Because she fears losing her and doesn't fear losing me or the kids. Her motivation is out of a fear of consequences - the consequence of abandonment.  But if the consequence did happen (and it has many times) her solution is to double-down.  It's a life philosophy that is backwards from the way most of us operate.  She has the same possibilities and options to enact change just like the rest of us, independent of her relationship with me.  She just has no motivation to take them.

I've spent a lot of time on the "am I enabling her" road and it leads to self blame.  My T encourages me to look at the long term pattern for her life and recognize her behavior has never changed one way or the other in response to my actions, and this is the same behavior she has in every relationship she has ever been in.  The "enabling" or "codependency" is about me and only me in the sense that it is a waste of my energy.  I just have a problem with those words because I am not dependent on her, and I can't figure out how I am enabling her if the behaviors existed prior to me and continue with or without me.  I *am*, however, enabling my own stress through the choice of staying married.  

I believe you. I think my BPD mother was as impaired. I don’t think it was as apparent at the time she was married. She married young and was living at her home when she met my father. Women in her era were not expected to work outside the home.

However- to not enable isn’t about the other person or to assure their growth. It may or may not happen. It’s about if  it is taking a toll on you.

So perhaps your better option is to prepare for the long run. As your wife gets older - the dating pool is smaller so finding another partner may not be an option. The chances of getting a job with no work experience is less, even if it was possible. It seems that this is the dynamic you feel is the better option for your situation.

Ok, so definitely don't count me as legal advice, but I am in a somewhat similar situation to you.

My BPD husband and I live apart (no legal separation) and I have the kids with me. I talked to a lawyer, and she said that if we are married and there is no custody agreement, and I am currently their primary caregiver, I don't need to worry about "keeping the kids from him." The way I have handled it in the past is that if I feel my husband is doing well, we visit together as a family, and if not, I keep the kids away. I just base their contact with him on whatever I feel is best for them given his mental state. My kids are toddlers, so they don't really express wanting or not wanting to see him, but if they would say they didn't want to see him and I felt their reasoning made sense, I would definitely not push them to go.

The lawyer gave me a cute example to illustrate this point - she said that she wants her girls to attend dance and her husband doesn't, so she just doesn't listen to him and puts them in dance. And there is no legal reason why she can't go against him. She said if I kidnapped the kids and moved to another country, that would be different, but clearly I am not doing that. So that really helped me in mitigating my fear (my husband used to constantly say I "stole the kids"), and then I was able to make decisions not out of fear, but what I feel is best.

You can of course consult with a lawyer wherever you live to find out the laws there, but I just thought I would share my personal experience. Definitely, unless it is the law that your kids need to go to your husband, I would prioritize their mental health first in this situation and not give in to your husband's temper tantrums.

I agree with the gist of what Pook and Notwendy are saying.  If you enable your spouse by doing things for her that she could and should do for herself, you could be getting in the way of her learning about the real world and getting some therapy.  In the short term, you might feel that you're not harming yourself that much, but what about the long term?  Is bending over backwards and over-functioning for your spouse sustainable?  What sort of example are you setting for your kids, in a world where you shoulder all the responsibilities and your spouse doesn't contribute anything of substance, and she's having an affair on the side as well?  What are the kids learing about consequences, about adult relationships?  Will they take after you, or maybe after their disordered mother?

Apologies if this sounds blunt, but it sounds to me like your wife is less functional than a five-year-old.  Anyway, that's exactly what I thought about the pwBPD in my life when she wasn't getting therapy.  Many five-year-olds are able to get up in the morning, get dressed, attend school, wash their hands, eat meals at the table with family, pick up their toys, say please and thank you, and go to bed at bedtime.  My guess is that your pwBPD was able to do that at one point.  To me it's not acceptable that she has regressed so much.

Look, if mom sleeps the day away and doesn't deal with any adverse consequences, the kids will start to wonder why they can't sleep the day away too and get out of things they don't want to do, such as go to school.  I've seen exactly this sort of dysfunctional behavior impact children, in a scenario not dissimilar to what you describe.  What happened?  Ultimately, the courts intervened with an actual consequence.  Since the disordered parent was napping during most of visitation and was unable to provide his kids with meals, the courts reduced visitation time and also mandated that visitation be supervised by a competent adult (i.e. Grandma).

I understand how challenging enablement and enmeshment can be.  I sat by and watched a full-grown adult abdicate adult responsibilities, living rent- and obligation-free in my own home, sleeping the day away, all the while acting out, treating others like crap and refusing to get therapy, because in her mind, everyone else was the problem.  Apparently she was too "ill" to work, do chores, be courteous, eat meals with the family, etc., and yet she was always well enough to drive on her own, travel and buy herself things she wanted with her dad's money.  Her dad delayed retirement and kept working so that she didn't have to work herself.  You might think, that's OK, because by letting her do whatever she wanted, she was at least safe and alive.  But that wasn't sustainable, fair or healthy for the other members of the family, and it certainly wasn't good for her, either.  The "real world" wouldn't let her get away with that sort of behavior.

You are correct, we are married, but due to an incident where I had to call 911, he currently lives at one of our rental properties and stays at our house when he wants!  I work early mornings on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so he has taken the kids to school on these days for a long time.  But...when in his mood, he has recently started saying that he wont sleep at the house on Monday nights that the kids have to go to his place for him to take them to school, even though our 8 year old has point blank told him that he does not want to sleep there or sleep without me.  So I have figured out another way to get them to school, then he figures out how to derail something else, so I finally give in.  When in this mood, he will not stop until he "gets what he wants"...which is me pissed off!  He will usually respect it on Wednesdays when I tell him that the kids want to stay at home and he shows up at 10pm when we are all asleep, which is fine, but this last go around he has been over the top...I thought about just taking the kids and going to a hotel last night, but he told me that he would count that as keeping the kids from him.  I'm not sure that that is even a legal thing unless we are in court, but he is probably just saying that to once again...piss me off! 

Sorry if I missed part of your story, but can you explain why they have to go to him if they don't want to? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're married and there's no separation or custody agreement, right?

Normalization is a description to consider.  We here are reasonably normal people.  We generally have a good perspective of life.  But due to our inclinations - perhaps due to influence in our childhood or prior relationships - we began accommodating others, even the poor behaviors.  The poor behavior became normalized to the extent we didn't see it as abnormal behavior.

My experience with bringing home flowers... My ex liked red roses.  One anniversary I brought beautiful color-speckled carnations because the roses on display were virtually wilted.  Contrary to your way of receiving a gift, she raged at me for not getting roses, cut the flowers off the stems and threw them all in the kitchen garbage.  Then she had *nothing*.  Ranting and raging is quite different from a subdued response!  I was getting "normalized" to unreasonable behavior.

No two people have identical responses.  We're not like robots on an assembly line expected to be identical.  Our differences can and should be invigorating and refreshing in most cases.  But when things get to extremes of behavior, that's when a person's traits can morph into a level of mental illness.  That too can vary from one person to the next.  It's not like they carry an ID card in their shirt pocket that states "I'm mentally ill".  That's where we need overall awareness, perspective and objectivity.  Yes, and we're here to get that education and insight.

Cross posted with Pook and I think we said the same thing. However, when it came to our basic needs as kids, I don't know if my BPD mother was capable of doing them. There's no way to know that as thankfully we were taken care of.

That's the main message. Not doing something may open up a possibility but it's not a guarantee. Enabling prevents change. But kids need to be fed regardless. The enabling I observed went beyond care for the kids.

I think you are correct in that we can not change another person. Where I think there's a  misunderstand is thinking that not doing something for someone will change them. That is not true. If someone told you that, it's not correct.

We can't change another person, we can only change ourselves. However, we do know that by doing something for another person that they can do themselves will prevent them from the possibility of learning. Not doing it won't ensure they learn but it doesn't prevent that possibility.

It's like an only chance action. It might work, it might not but to continue to enable, they are more likely not going to learn.

Truly though, the only reason to work on co-dependent behavior is that we improve ourselves through doing so, not about anyone else. I feel I got the benefit of doing that. This is because these behaviors don't really benefit us in the long run.

But like I said, I hit an emotional bottom. I just didn't want to continue enabling as I could see it was affecting me to take on people pleasing, walking on eggshells, and enabling.

 I didn't do it for anyone else. Interesting as I never heard about the idea of it fixing another person, as it was emphasized to not assume that or make it a reason for working on the behaviors. If I did mention anything like that, the sponsor turned it right back on me- we are working on you.

The kids' needs may complicate the situation, but again, it's about our own motives. If the kids need to be picked up, you are doing it for their needs. Maybe it's also enabling your wife too, but the kids welfare is the main priority here. That is not being co-dependent. Same with food, and other needs.

Your wife seems similar to my BPD mother. She really didn't do much and my father compensated for that when it came to our needs when we were younger. I don't think that was the main issue with the dynamics between them. It was more of an over focus on BPD mother, her feelings, her needs, and the walking on eggshells and compromising himself, his finances, and well being. While he also said he stayed for the kids- which I believe was true when we were younger, he stayed past that, and then the dynamic was between the two of them.

I don't believe divorce will change your wife either but that isn't the reason for choosing that, if you did choose that. It would be because it was the best situation for you, and then also for the kids. Why do I say that? Because you are the most emotionally stable parent and your own well being also impacts them too.

While I think custody is a concern, more for my father's era than now, I also saw how affected my BPD mother was. There was no way she could have functioned on her own, or as a parent. Any custody would have been not for long. I think there was real concern on his part for her.

I think my father established a situation similar to what you are doing and also this can persist for as long as you choose it to. That's really your choice and I understand it very well, and have a lot of empathy for your situation.