I am sorry for the loss of your father. I am glad for you that you could be there for him at that time. That's what matters the most.

Both my parents are deceased. They remained married. My father passed several years before my BPD mother. I think in summary- this kind of loss is difficult for even the most stable families. I think in families with dysfunction, it seems to bring this out.

Also, dysfunction affects every member of the family, even if some of them don't have a disorder themselves, because families behave as a system. Both you and your brother are reacting to this situation with the "relationship tools" you each have.

At the time of my father's passing, BPD mother was angry at me. She enlisted other family members to "her side". I have no idea what she may have said to them about me. I felt ostracized. I didn't initiate no contact, but they didn't contact me.

Like you, I was grateful for the support of friends and my father's side of the family. It seemed as if my family was split in two. I heard nothing from my mother's side.

This time was chaotic. PwBPD have disordered thinking and behavior. That your mother shows up as the kind, caring, grieving family member is her way of protecting her self image.

I did retreat from this for my own self care. If this is what you need to do, then do it. Take some time for yourself, keep your boundaries. This is a time of grief and loss for you. You don't need to be emotionally caretaking full grown adults (children do need your care- they depend on you and it's a loss for them too). You may want to consider therapy at this time for your own emotional support. I did it and it helped.

With your brother, I don't think you need to go full NC unless you choose to. He may not have good boundaries. On your part, you can still have them. You've asked him to not discuss your mother, or sister. Know that if he has poor boundaries with you, he also does with them and that anything you say to him is going to be reported back to them. You've been NC with your mother and sister and can keep this up.

You can control the discussion with him. If you have already stated you don't want to hear about your mother/sister and he starts- you can gently remind him "I can't listen to this at the moment, can we change the subject" and if he persists, politely get off the phone "I love you brother and care about you but I can't listen to this. I will call you later" and get off the phone. Essentially- you are teaching him this boundary while also letting him know you care about him and still want to talk to him. You also can control when you are available to speak, or text. "I can't talk right now but I will call you tomorrow" and decrease the frequency of contact to what you wish to have, for now. It may change later but you can prioritize your own self care.

Losing a father is huge, emotionally. Even the strongest person needs time to grieve and self care. Do this for yourself. Grief takes it's own course. Give yourself the time you need. Take care.

What's the MC's proposed plan now? Is it to stop MC and for each of you to have your own individual therapy? Because it seems like what she's saying is that the two of you aren't ready to work with a MC, ie, it's not going to be effective at the moment.

I know that I can't change anyone, but nonetheless I'm remaining hopeful that with educating myself and making some personal changes, it will have a positive impact on my 19yo  daughter. I started to work 1 on 1 with a DBT practitioner and continue to search other informed resources on BPD. In doing that I came upon a skill called "EAR" statements on a site called highconflicttraining.com It's not "DBT" but a very similar skill/technique using validation to deescalate an upset/high conflict person. It seems straight forward enough but I'm confused about when this should be attempted based on my specific circumstance. I'm definitely the "target", and my daughter can turn on a dime. When she does, it's rarely because of something I'm saying/doing in the moment, but something I did/said in the past... sometimes it's ancient history. A common theme is her bringing up my parenting during middle school, using my mistakes (real or perceived) as an excuse avoid personal accountability in current day. This has continued for years. It's like "you made me dress like a middle aged woman.... you PURPOSELY wanted me to not be like other kids!". Then it continues with "All I ever wanted was to fit in, and you made SURE I wouldn't !" You DID THIS TO ME!. It could literally be about anything. No matter what happens, what she does, it always rolls back to me being responsible in some way and the "cause" of her choices/actions.... because I screwed up during middle school.

I had gotten to the point of feeling confident with just calmly hanging up the phone or not engaging in texts etc. when she goes on one of these rants. I had already laid forth the expectation that this is what I'll do if communications become abusive. But now I'm confused. Should I listen for a while and then try to EAR before disconnecting when she goes off? I can see how EAR could be helpful when someone is upset about something, but when I'm the constant target of the angst, I just don't know.

Foreverdad - very experienced and highly rated.

A common observation by therapists is that marriage counseling can require individual therapy.  Sounds like an experienced MC.

MC yesterday suggested that we are not emotionally ready to deal with R/S issues until we individually deal with our own personal traumas first.  This isn’t the first MC to mention this.  While it is said to the both of us, it’s pretty clear that this is directed at W.  Yesterday this happened after W went on a completely irrational blame fest that lasted 20 minutes.  To me, this is textbook BPD - w is feeling confined by marriage, feels shame over her urges, projects into me as an attempt to reduce shame.

Today W is upset at MC for suggesting we focus more on individual therapy.  I am puzzled by this, because just the night before she was telling me that she did not feel emotionally stable enough for any relationship.  I think she is feeling singled out by the MC, or maybe it is okay for her to have those thoughts but not for a T to tell her that.  But she totally mossed the point here.  W thinks I am “controlling her” like some kind of slave because I won’t let her date.  It’s like she thinks I am her father or something.  MC was trying to say she’s not mentally healthy enough to work on R/S issues, and that is true, whether it be a r/s with me or with someone else she wants to have a r/s with.  W pursuing new r/s  would be re-traumatizing herself with the same old pattern.

I feel like I am dealing with complete chaos right now - and there is no way to work with that constructively

Hi lisaea1523 ,

I think you are doing the right thing. Yet, you might have to step towards the request of the NC order so that he steps towards leaving.

In the case of my wife, she only left at the last minute. I had gotten some boxes and was ready to pack my stuff and leave over that weekend, and then finally agreed to leave. She agreed because I was approaching her in a lovely way, and she understood that the alternative (that everyone left the house) was much worse. Because she would then have to leave without support and possibly be forced by police (called by the landlord). So she said by that weekend she would leave instead of me.

Then, as she truly agreed to leave, things went smoothly until the day she left. Because I switched to being as warm as possible with her, and I even cuddled with her at night (I had not been doing this for some time). I did that because I wanted her to leave feeling safe and not abandoned. I'm ok if we don't work out, but I don't want her to have a breakdown as it happened in the past.

Before she left, I had mentioned the possibility of her coming back for a weekend. She immediately reacted badly to that when she heard it, but now that we are living apart, she actually asks for that. For two weeks I refused our weekend together because she was still being aggressive with me by text, but then I managed to make her feel loved and that I care for her, so she cooled off and started treating me well, so I finally accepted her coming here for a weekend. She is sleeping right now in our bed (which is now MY bed). She will leave tomorrow, and hopefully this distancing will give her the motivation she needs to treat herself.

I have some questions about the comment below:


The question is, do you still want this relationship to work? Do you love him? If you do, then you can use that to make things work easier. This is a sentence from Pook075 that helped me:

"They just want to feel loved and supported in every interaction. They want to feel like they matter and they're seen."

If you feel capable of doing that, it will help, even though stepping towards the NC order might be indispensable (or whatever order is needed for him to move out).

My dad, divorced from my dBPD mom decades ago, and months later she married a dNPD/bipolar man—both untreated.
He died two weeks ago from dementia. I was there with him as his support and medical advocate in the hospital and days later in hospice every day until he passed. It was intense, and I have a community that has shown up for me, and I am so grateful.

Months ago, my dad was hospitalized and my dBPD adult sister (40; some treatment, but currently stopped and unmedicated) and I were each flying in to help. She flew into town but never showed up, ghosted us, said she never wanted to be involved and was manipulated into it (sigh) and then had a series of tirades aimed at my tender hearted dBipolar adult brother (42), also untreated. My mom joined in as well, attacking him for being a failure, for helping my dad too much and “making her look bad”, among other things. I’ve been no contact with my mom for years, and she’s blocked, but she periodically calls from random other numbers—more so to my brother than me. He cried to me, where I reinforced boundaries, not wanting to be involved, and focus on my dad.

Now that my dad died, my sister and mom are at it again, deciding all kinds of things that aren’t true—that I excluded her from his care, that I’m hiding his (non-existent) money, etc. I know this bc she’s called the nursing home and funeral home multiple times to yell this at people, whereupon they call me. There’s no burial, and the ashes have been split among the kids and delivered, with a little bit of drama from my sister (I want the ashes here! No there! No, I don’t want them! She’s keeping them from me! Ok, deliver them to me please—all voicemails to the funeral home over 3 days). My mom also showed up at the funeral home unnanounced to bring treats (?!?!?) to this man she’s never met, and reiterate that my father was and I am awful, but not to help with the ashes, of course. I didn’t ever engage with them throughout it all.

My brother tho has. He keeps getting attacked by them, destabilized by it all, and then reaches back out to them. Block/unblock. Argue. Call. Cry. Fall apart. Repeat. I’ve asked him to not share any of his contact with them to me. Then he does while in crisis, caused by taking to them. It’s his choice to talk to them, and his choices not get therapy, and I am trying to respect that, but he isn’t respecting my boundary to not hear it. I reinforced this yesterday, he agreed, and 4 hours later he texted to say mom texted him a long text about me, do I wanna hear it. I say no, boundary. He tells me anyway. I say I am trying grieve, stop. He says he gets it, but I know he will break the boundary again.

I know I can step away from him. I can feel myself already starting to. I am sad bc I think that’s the only thing I can do right now to protect my peace. And honestly, I may have to let him go. Anything else I can do?

BPD affects all relationships, and it affects the most intimate ones the most. Spouses and children tend to be the closest ones. Grandchildren are a step away from this closeness, and so your ex may be more attentive to them.

In this context, it would be easier for a pwBPD to maintain a more superficial relationship with people they are less close to. However, if that relationship gets closer, there may be more issues. Eventually the pwBPD may discard the relationship or the other person chooses to not continue it.

The "monkey branching" would fit this concept. You were the spouse, the other man is is a new person, she knew less about him, and so could "paint him white". Now that their relationship is progressing, the "white paint" seems to be chipping.

I would also feel empathy for the new man's children. It would be up to him to protect them.

I think one of the best things you did for your children was to become clean and sober. You've given them a much healthier father and role model by taking care of yourself.

 

Strategies and legal decisions are yours.  Sharing or revealing them to a stbEx in a futile effort to "soften the blow" would enable the other to sabotage or obstruct your goals.  It will already be hard enough for the other not to sense your changed disposition and try to gain the upper hand.