Hi again,

I have another off-beat idea to help deal with reading toxic messages from your ex without being triggered as much.  I found that when I worked abroad in a foreign language, the emotional content of any communications was dampened for me.  I was usually more clinical in my understanding of conversations.  There was something about thinking in a foreign language that activated my analytical brain more than the emotional part.

So my idea for you would be to try having your ex's messages read aloud to you, ideally with a foreign-sounding accent, and perhaps in a voice of the opposite gender of your ex.  My email system can read messages aloud to me, albeit in a computer-sounding voice.  Maybe if the message's voice sounded completely different, the emotional content would feel more blunted.  With some luck, you could just focus on the factual/logistical content and feel less triggered.

Another idea for you would be to "schedule" when you deal with stuff from your ex.  An example might be, you check for and listen to messages while driving home from work, making dinner or taking your evening stroll.  Moreover, if you are semi-engaged with a small task, your reaction might feel more blunted.  I did this regularly in my work life, by screening calls from certain family members during the work day.  I found that talking to them during work would be too disruptive to me.  To deal with that, I'd let their calls go to voicemail, and then I'd get back to them during my commute home.  Dealing with them during the commute felt less disruptive and more manageable.  It also helped that it was close to dinnertime, which tended to keep the conversations shorter.

Good luck.

I like reading stories in the forum from people who have BPD partners and who "feel like they made it" because it gives me hope, when I started learning about BPD it seemed like everything was telling me "there is no hope, run away, you will be unhappy forever"

Instead I also need to know that it is not like that sometimes

Yes, I understand it and I understand the importance of addressing it that way. I think that ultimately, it's important to have that type of communication with anyone, even those who aren't pwBPD, but with those who have the disorder (whatever its spectrum) it becomes even more important.

But is it possible to live like this? A life in which, out of love, we force ourselves to be with a person we can't confide in 100%? Or risk our children observing certain behaviors and assimilating them, perhaps developing a dysfunction of their own?

If someone with BPD decides to undertake an individual therapy aimed at emotional dysregulation, how much more regulated can they become? From 100 to... 80? 50? 20? I guess there's no single answer...

I think there are many people like me in this forum who choose to be with a BPD person, but how many can say that their life is satisfying? How many feel they are better people themselves when the pwBPD entered their life? 

Thank you again for your replies

Hi, your question is very clear and I struggled with that as well.  I can remember my ex wife demanding for me to leave, yet when I tried to leave she started hitting me and saying that I wasn't going anywhere.  I handled those situations badly because I had no idea what was happening or what to do.  The problem on my part was applying logic to an illogical argument...I couldn't stay and leave at the same time.  Whatever I did was going to be wrong in my ex's eyes because she was overly emotional and melting down inside.

Over time I've learned to keep it about me and my feelings.  BPDs run on feelings, so they understand them well. 

My go-to opening is something like, "I love you and I don't want to argue.  Let's take a few minutes to cool off."  Notice it's all about me and what I need. 

If I said it differently, it would get the exact opposite reaction that I'm looking for.  For example, "I love you BUT I'm tired of arguing.  You need a few minutes to calm down."  This is blaming her while she's in a state where she can't accept blame because she's already self-destructing and conflicted over so many emotions at once.

Also, there's something about the word "but".  BPDs hate it.  I love you but... I wanted to see you tonight but...  I thought about calling but...  All they hear is what comes after the "but", it's like the first part doesn't even matter even though that's where you're giving affirmation.

That's why my statements have to be about me only while she's dysregulated.  "I love you.  I hate when we argue because it hurts us both.  I'm going to walk away for a few minutes to clear my head."  These are much safer statements because it's focused on what I need to have a productive conversation.

Also, your temperament when you say these things is just as powerful as the words themselves.  If you're angry and say that stuff with anger and judgement in your tone, it will miss 100% of the time.  BPDs will focus in on the negative because they're stuck temporarily thinking that way, they're waiting for doom and gloom so they're searching for it.  You need to speak calmly, patiently and in a soft tone if at all possible.

And hey, you'll mess this up a lot.  I still do.  But at least you have the standard to aim for now.  The most important message to repeat in your daily life is that I love you, I have your back no matter what, I'm not going anywhere and we can work through this together.  That helps the fear and unstable emotions subside, and when things do get bad it's easier to reinforce "I need a break" or "I don't want to argue, I'm here to help".

Sometimes you'll be "perfect" in your delivery and it's still not enough.  That's when you simply walk away, with the promise that you'll follow up soon.  And I agree with what you said, you should always follow up shortly afterwards.  If you don't, then their worst thoughts can continue manifesting.  If you say you're stepping away for 15 minutes or two hours, then try to abide by that.

In college, a counselor suggested I go NC with BPD mother. I tried to do it but it was not possible- because, other people who I wanted to have contact with were connected to her. She and my father were a pair and contact with him would include her. So I didn't actually do it or consider it.

From my own experience, going NC doesn't change the other person. I think the main reason to go NC is for our own emotional well being. If contact with the other person is affecting ones own emotional well being- it's a protective decision. It can be the best decision in some circumstances but not possible or the best decision in others.

For a relationship to improve, we have to do some personal work, but still, if the other person has BPD and is not doing their own therapy, the only thing we can do is our own work. Going NC can give us some emotional space, but it doesn't change the other person.

Also, families exist in a system- and a balance of behaviors with each other. Going NC with one family member might also result in issues with other family members as well. While the concept is to give emotional space, it may increase the drama in other ways.

My own choice (unless the situation is very damaging) with someone with whom we have connections in common is to go LC- manage contact and the emotional content of the communications. Keep in mind that boundaries are about us, not the other person. The goal isn't to change them, it's to manage our part in the dynamics as best we can. One idea is to not be available all the time but have a plan for when to speak- like a schedule. If the person calls during other times, don't pick up or say "we will speak this weekend". These could be smaller "times out", rather than all or none contact.

Sorry to hear you're still going through this. You're now realising that without treatment, this is 'the norm' in your relationship. It's a self-repeating cycle of chaos which continues no matter how many chances you give it or how many times you hope that it will end and things will improve.

Speaking for myself, I could endure a lot but when my own XBPD partner seemed about to turn violent it really was the breaking point for me; nobody should have to suffer physical injury or live with the threat of it, illness or no illness.


It helps to realise that this 'good version' was just as much a facade as her 'bad version'. I think we tend to think of the 'good version' as being the real person, as they would be if they had no mental illness but I don't think that's the case.  This 'good version' is just the costume they take on to attract you, mirroring themselves so closely to you that it feels like the best thing ever - but it's still part of their illness and we know they'll do it to the next person after they discard you.

I don't think I ever knew - or even saw - the 'real' pre-BPD person I went out with for 4 years.. if that person ever existed in the first place.

Thank you for your advice! I clearly remember some short-lived discussions, like a very recent one.
We were snowing in the mountains and we walked through a spot where the snow was fresher and deeper, knee-deep, and she (who had never been on snow before) started yelling at me, saying, "Why did you bring me here? I paid a lot of money for these boots, now you're buying them back, you always have these stupid ideas."
I didn't point out how silly the situation was, I waited for her a little further ahead where the snow was normal. She came out on her own and came towards me. I said, "Were you a little scared? Did you think you'd stay trapped?"  ...after a few hundred meters walking almost silent she stopped me, hugged me, and said, "Sorry for raising my voice, I got scared and didn't control myself."
That same evening, before going to bed, I thanked her for noticing her behavior, for apologizing, and I complimented her for having the courage to try a new activity (walking in the snow). This episode lasted for maybe 10 minutes, do you think it was well handled?

There's one thing you told me, though, that I'm not good at and still struggle with: when in an argument she goes overboard, accusing me of things that didn't happen or raising her voice, I want to walk away or put into practice what you suggested, but she accuses me of "putting up a wall, or running away from the discussion," and I think everyone in the public imagination would tell me that's true. Even my therapist says that every discussion should be dealt in the next 24 hours, but sometimes she is still upset for 48 hours if this makes sense.

How can I balance the fact that for a person with BPD traits, conflict management sometimes requires walking away from the discussion? I hope my question is clear

Hello, wanted to check if anyone can recommend virtual or in person IOP or in patient option, preferably in S. California for dual diagnosis treatment (substance use and BPD or DBT centric). Thanks.

Hello, I am new here and this is my first post. I am trying to figure out what to do next.

To start a little about me. I am an Adult Child of an Alcoholic (ACOA) and I have plenty of Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs). I have been in therapy here and there though my life. At age 56 I started some deeper therapy, Trauma/EMDR, and it was wonderful and very helpful. I was able to reframe many old experiences and I no longer felt like the trauma was driving the bus.

But maybe because of my own past I am a little slow figuring things out. Like what is really going on in my marriage. Looking back I see so many red flags that I missed, some before we were married.

The toughest part of the marriage was when my wife was in peri-menopause. She would have what I now call an Anger Flash. She would suddenly get very angry, what I now call raging, and would say hurtful or unkind things, and then would suddenly be back to normal. And when asked about it she would say that she had not been angry. It started occasionally but over time grew to happen probably once a day on average. 2 of the 4 kids were still at home, and I tried to protect them from it. I cannot say that I did that good a job.

Over the course of (about) 4 years it almost ruined me. It destroyed all of the bond I have with her. I have stayed out of duty and commitment and responsibility. But then some magic happened. One day when at the doctor she decided to start on an antidepressant. She changed almost immediately. The rages went away.

The damage stopped but under the surface I was still scared but did not realize it. And there were still controlling behaviors.

She still was not easy to live with. It was still a one-way relationship, with me giving her the things she needed to feel loved, and never giving me what I needed. Those things she gave me had gradually faded over the course of the marriage. I recently realized that I have been enabling, and changing my life to work around keeping her from getting angry. I kept waiting for her to figure it out and come back to me.

Two events happened recently that have changed things. First, she had an anger flash when we were having a difficult conversation (getting our Wills made). I responded in anger. While this may not sound like a great thing, it was different for me, instead of staying quiet in shock and hurt. We got though the conversation, with her saying that she had not been angry. It took me about a day to figure out that it had been an anger flash.

We did have a very emotional talk about it a few days later, with me trying to tell her again about the anger flash thing. She totally twisted that one conversation and said that she DID remember getting angry. She never even addressed the idea of the anger flashes that she had in the past (and has banned me from bringing it up again). Now, at some point I had realized that part of the problem with the anger flashes was that she did not remember them. She did not remember that she was angry or the angry things she had said. So it was not really a surprise that she did not acknowledge that these things had happened many times before.

The second event was that my youngest child moved out. She said that she could not be herself around my wife. And truth be told, every one of the 4 children moved out related to difficulties with my wife. But the point was that it helped me to realize that part of why I am staying married is to mitigate the damage to my youngest child. Having her gone released me.

To add some more data, my wife loves to diagnose others. She insists that her mother (my mother-in-law) and our third child have Borderline Personality Disorder. That is what brought it to my attention. And mentioning this in my Men's circle cause one of the men to suggest the Walking on Eggshells book. So I have been listening to that in my car when driving to work at my part-time job.

I went through the questions, and scored my wife, with a 5.5 on BPD and a 6.5 on NPD. Total score of 12, which means that book would suggest that she has both. And she has the "unconventional" type which means that she may never be able to understand that she has it.

But no diagnosis. And the book says not to talk with her about it. Granted, I have tried to talk with her about her behaviors many times, and there is never any change. And most of the time she does not even remember that we had the discussion.

I was also annoyed that a chapter of the book described ways to set up better boundaries and improve communication. That would have helped a LOT years ago. But I did not want to hear it, as I was too busy thinking about getting out and finding a way to be happy. Now I am confused.

My wife has had her own share of trauma. She also had an alcoholic father. She had a mother that was quite difficult to deal with during her teen years (maybe BPD, maybe NPD, maybe also peri-menopause amplified) and she has had secondary trauma from some of the work she did. And there may be some other well-hidden abuse in her past. One of the things she told me years ago was that her emotions where very strong, and that she does not like to hear my feelings because that puts her into overload. I think she is a very strong emotional person. Much of her life is structured around keeping the lid on her feelings.

So on to where I am now. I want to be happy. I do not think that I will ever be happy with my wife. But I also do not want to break the marriage vow (better or worse, till death do us part...). My wife seems to have BPD, but medications to not help that, but when she started taking the anti-depressants it DID help. So does she have it or not? Also, I have been laid off 3 times in the past 4 years (massive layoffs in the tech sector). So we are in debt and and are barely paying the bills, let alone paying off the debts. And there is no retirement account any more. We spent all that during times of unemployment. So I cannot afford to just get an apartment and leave. We could sell the house and pay off the debts, but I do not know where she would go. I would prefer to leave her the house. But it is a big old house that she could never care of herself, so it would need to be sold anyway. Part of me wants to see if I can use better communication and boundaries to improve things. I want to see if she will get help. But I have no confidence that will work. I am scared to tell her that I want to leave. And I am SO SO tired of trying and dealing with this behavior for over 25 years. I am tired of giving and not receiving. So yeah, confused.

I am seeing a therapist (every week) and I also have my men's circle to support me. But open to thoughts or suggestions.

Thank you for reading and I hope it all makes sense.

It  may help to keep in mind the reason for going NC- for a person's own emotional recovery, not to act on the other person. However, it is one choice and in some situations, like yours, when there are children involved, it's not a choice. If someone chooses NC, they can block the person, delete emails, but you can not do this.

Another option is LC- not only in contact frequency but in emotional content of the contact. You can't control how your wife interacts but you can decrease your emotional input and reactions. Another term is "grey rock"- go neutral.

Feeling emotionally triggered isn't comfortable but looking at it another way- if you feel triggered, the trigger spot is actually yours, and if it's yours, you can do something about it. When you feel emotional, it's a signal to use your self regulating tools- do some self care, take a walk. It's OK to feel the feelings. Chances are, you've been putting your own aside for a while now. Use this time to reconnect with yourself.

If you find the emails have too much of an emotional affect- CC43's suggestion- get someone trusted to screen and edit the fact parts out, or use AI if that is possible.

While it seems logical to repeat the rules of contact with your ex, also consider if this is going to work if your ex can even control how she relates to you. It may be that the only part of this contact that you can control is yours.