Hello and welcome to the family. 

You've asked the hardest possible question that comes across this site almost daily- how do you convince someone to get help?  The short answer is that you can't.  Your relative will get help once it seems like the best possible option for thier life and not a day sooner. 

Why?  That's the crux of the illness...everything is everyone else's fault.  As long as there's someone else to blame, there's no reason to take personal accountability and deal with our issues.  BPD is especially challenging because they're emotional outbursts due to internal pain.  They don't think about hurting others.  Instead, they're hurting so much internally, they lash out to feel better in the moment.  And when it works, they think, huh, that other person is truly the problem in my life.  If only they weren't ruining things, I'd be happy.

You mentioned a few things that could lead to help in the USA.  If someone's suicidal, you dial 9-1-1 and there'd be a mandatory wellness check.  If they were suidical, then there'd be a mandatory hospital stay for a psych evaluation.  But that's in America and other countries have their own procedures.  In Europe, mental health is taken much more seriously.  In Aisa, it's taken less seriously.  So it really depends on where your relative is at and who there could try to get them help.

If the teenage child will be an adult soon, they'll have to make a choice whether to stay or leave.  There's very little you can say or do though that would make a meaningful difference for the parent/adult.  The place to start would be seeing what that country even offered in mental health services.

That is really helpful advice. I can imagine doing that.

 :help:I have an adult family member who is a single mom and caretaker of her teenage child. They live in a different country than the rest of the family. She has shown signs of BPD/complex trauma for many years, but recently her behaviour is getting worse and more troublesome. She is very verbally abusive to her child, slams doors, sometimes throws things and recently mentioned not wanting to live. She drinks every day. Her child has no other family member in the country currently, and reaches out for support from me when things get bad. At one point he moved out from the home but later moved back. He is a minor still, but not for much longer.

I am worried for her safety, and the safety of her child. We have repeatedly spoken to her about getting appropriate help, and most often she blows up and won't listen. Even if she does listen at certain points, she doesn't seem to be open to accepting help, or even acknowledge that her anger and aggression is an issue. She is very quick to get angry and abusive, and it's only getting worse.

My question is - how can you approach someone about getting appropriate therapy in a way that might actually work? Is it possible to gently speak to someone about their anger without them getting angry? Are there things that have worked for others?

it can be a little triggering listening to music. My ex and I went to quite a few festivals/music gigs so hearing some songs can bring back a memory. One needs to separate it somewhat from reality, because sometimes your version of reality while in that relationship can be skewed.

For example, I’ve read a lot about the bpd devaluation, and in the moment, while you are in that relationship, it can be easy to dismiss. The other day I was trying to use WhatsApp. My phone told me I had no available data left and needed to delete data from my phone. I went through my photos and videos to delete and make space. I came across a video recording I had made, dating back to august 2022, just over a year before my wife and I split up.

I listened to it and remembered the context. She had been accusing me of talking to her in an aggressive tone of voice, that I always sounded angry with her. The video I captured was of me asking her to repeat something she said because I had missed the first word of the sentence and didn’t want to get my answer wrong as not to trigger the usual word twisting, circular argument. My tone of voice was completely calm and relaxed. Hers was the complete opposite. She basically ranted, telling me I should always anticipate her saying something so I don’t miss anything she says so she doesn’t have to repeat it, along with some expletives, name calling, and what I know now to be devaluation.

I can remember in that moment feeling slightly disappointed that I didn’t catch her usual wrath and poisonous tongue on that video and thinking it wasn’t that bad. Listening back to it all these years later and completely out of the relationship I can see it clearly for what it was, and wonder how I ever put up with her behaviour.

I have a BPD ex-wife and a BPD daughter from that marriage.  However, I believe that both my ex-wife's brothers were BPD/NPD as well.

One brother was very aggressive and prone to anger.  If you crossed him, you'd better duck and run.  And if you said anything negative about him, he'd get extremely hurt and avoid you for months.  For example, one time he wanted to give my 16 year old daughter a car after she wrecked hers.  I said no though because the insurance would have been like $650 a month just for her.  And this devestated him- why wouldn't I accept his gift and let him do that for our kid?  Why did I hate him and my kid so much?  I didn't, LOL, but I literally couldn't afford an extra $7k a year in insurance for a $3k car.

The other brother was always second guessing himself and he cared so much about what others thought of him.  He'd open up to me but beg me not to tell anyone.  Then he'd say something that all of us deal with daily; there was no reason for it to be eating him up so badly and he should talk about it.  He just couldn't though.

My BPD daughter is EXACTLY like brother #1 with the anger management issues (traditional BPD).  My BPD ex wife is EXACTLY like brother #2 who always feels judged and isolated (quiet BPD).  All four are similar in traits, but the way they react to stress is completely different.  One group exploded while the other shut down in depression.

I hope that helped!

I did the exact same thing for the first decade of my marriage and I'd build so much resentment, I eventually stopped cleaning the house because it made me so angry.  I'd find junk and filth everywhere where my ex just didn't care.  For instance, her car often had mold in it from rotting McDonalds in the back seat floorboard...and our young kids sat in those backseats.  I'd become furious and then my ex would tell everyone I was mean and mentally abusive when I demanded that she stop endangering our children.

So please know that I'm preaching to the choir here, that I handled things as badly as anyone at times.

For the second decade of our marriage, I learned to let all of that stuff go.  A clean house didn't matter because I loved my wife.  Eating balanced meals as a family didn't matter because I loved my wife.  And in a way, it was great because the arguments stopped.  I no longer even looked inside my wife's car, for example, I didn't get in her car except maybe 2-3 times over a 10 year period.  At the same time though, inside I was dying because I was ignoring every single one of my values to remain in the marriage.  She didn't cook, didn't clean, and was almost always on the run somewhere.  I was home alone as a miserable married man that was always waiting for his wife.

It wasn't until I got to the point you're at today when I realized that I had never handled things in a healthy way.  My ex should have met me halfway; if it mattered to me, it should have mattered to her as well since that's what I always did for her.  We should have been able to work through those things without blowout arguments and acusations.

Once I suspected BPD (our family physician actually pointed it out shortly after separation), my entire mindset began to change.  I could see the patterns, I could see the chaos.  And in time, I realized that she's always been mentally ill and just can't fully function like a normal adult.

What was the answer?  Should I have demanded that she help around the home and be more present?  I don't know since we probably would have divorced much earlier if I did.  The kids would have had a broken home before their teenage years, so I'm thankful that it lasted as long as it did.  I can see now though that I never should have walked on eggshells and I never should have lost my cool...there is a middle-ground that we can take.

I shared my story to say that you must stand up for what's right (for you) while also loving your wife and showing her compassion.  Either she learns to return that or she doesn't, but you can't keep fighting over senseless things and just letting it chip away at your ego, your mental health.  I did that and it cost me more than I could afford, it led to physical and mental health problems because I was denying who I was to stay with a terrible partner while trying to make her happy.  My entire world revolved around placating her mental illness without even realizing it.

But you see it now, just as I finally saw it.  The question is, what will you do?  You have three options:

1)  Just continue to take it until you have major health problems from stress
2)  Push back and let the consequences fall where they may
3)  Learn to find balance with love, compassion, and healthy boundaries

Options 1 and 2 literally almost killed me from having a heart attack in my sleep in my early 40's.  I was an athlete so that should have been almost impossible, yet it happened because I was eaten up with stress 24/7.  We had a BPD kid too so I'm not blaming my wife or anyone in particular; it was mostly my fault for handling things so badly for so long.

I hope that helps and there's a few nuggets in there for you.

Thanks. I’m holding off for now.

Thanks for the responses!  I think you are correct in that there aren't any formal differences in BPD in males vs. females, but perhaps males can use their gender to be more forceful or whatever.

Yes, the boundaries are for myself. And I do see him fairly boundary resistant, so thank you for that comment because I've been so surprised by it. But definitely I am keeping my boundaries to keep my own sanity.

He isn't really doing therapy, especially not for BPD. He one time admitted he might have it when I went through the 9 traits (loose traits to sort of get an idea) but then later backpedaled.

So It's really me, knowing that he probably has it, and that my own boundaries are the only way to get through this. Other people's judgments are hard -- they are wondering why I just don't leave him completely. Sigh. It's hard to understand.

It is scary trying to have a relationship with someone with bpd! I know with my mom I still have to watch what I say, but if I sense she is about to have an episode my boundary is to tell her I will speak to her when she calms down.  I usually need to walk away or hang up on her.  It feels bad to do that, but this works so well.  The key is to keep telling her you will speak again soon.  You don't want to trigger their abandonment but have to protect yourself from all the harsh words and violent behavior.

What is extremely hurtful is when someone disrespects you and calls you horrible names, etc.  It is even more devastating when it's your spouse.  Most of us here experienced that.  I sometimes refer to my ex as the most aggressive purported "victim" I've ever seen.

Its impact is to a great extent dependent on how you react.  As a simple example, next time you're raked over the coals, reframe it in your mind.  My ex used to graphically disparage my manhood, saying she "wore the pants in the family".  Can you instead think of her wearing huge pink elephant pants?  Not so hurtful, is it?

My ex was never diagnosed and she flatly refused the concept of her going to therapy.  We even divorced and were in and out of divorce/parenting court for eight years.  Not once in all those years did the court seek to send either of us to counseling.  It's almost as though they studiously avoided seeking a diagnosis.  The observation here is that family courts and the associated professionals treat the litigants as they are.  We would do well to follow that example and not worry whether there is a diagnosis or not.  On the other hand, you've done well to observe her behavior patterns, see what fits and proceed from there.