The ballet is good for her and so, I wouldn't interrupt it. I don't blame her for not wanting online. I feel the same way about online after so many meetings on Zoom during Covid.

Your choosing divorce is not the reason for her mother's distress, and you know that. There's no way to know what her mother is saying to her. You are the emotionally stable parent to her and that is a good thing.

One example of the sadly innacurate thinking at this age is that, my BPD mother would blame me for issues at home. I actually believed that when I went to college, my parents would be "normal" and happy. That wasn't true of course.

Kids are magical thinkers. By the teen years they begin to gain more abstract thinking but still, and especially with a BPD parent who blames external things for their own issues, we don't know what is true or not when a parent says things.

At age 14, I was also asking my father for "reasons" why BPD mother was the way she was and if there were solutions.

My world outside the house was essential. Peers, school, extra curriculars all were sources of self esteem, validation, and an example of "normality" for me. The ballet provides this for her.

Home life for me at the time- was not stable, or peaceful. It was the outside world of school, friends, and activities that provided a sense of consistency and validation to counteract this.

BPD mother would threaten divorce at times, and at times it seemed possible. Our initial reaction when we were younger was to be scared and sad. As a teen, I wished it would happen, thinking it would stop the conflict- and I could go live with my father. Still, I had no real understanding of BPD, or marriage and divorce then, or what that would involve.

My own understanding of relationships, mental illness, BPD, marriage- all this evolved as I matured myself. What your child thinks at 14 will be different than what she thinks later.

I think birth position and personality may be factors too. My younger sibling seemed to have a different relationship with my BPD mother. They were more attached than I was to mine. I was the more parentified one and it's possible your older D is too. Still, an age gap of 2 years in maturity and abstract thinking make a difference in how each of your children are processing this.

Your being the stable parent makes this role even more essential to your children, and so the more you can protect your own mental health and resources, the better you can be for them. I still believe that the best thing you can do for your kids is to maintain your emotional well being. You are choosing the best way to do this for yourself.

Although my parents stayed together, my mother's emotional needs and her moods took most of my father's resources and attention. I know he also made the best choice he knew to do at the time with his situation- but it didn't solve my mother's BPD or create "normality" at home.

Your being more at peace and stable will ensure you are emotionally available to your D and can be a mitigating factor. Counseling will be there for her when she is ready and able to do it. Her task now is to be 14, and to think and feel as a 14 year old. Your role is to be the stable and caring Dad she needs now, and it's OK to say you don't have all the answers, but you know for sure that your love for her won't change no matter what.

I agree- first and foremost, your kids need to know that you love them and you're not going anywhere.  That's by far the biggest thing and honestly, too few parents that are together reinforce that enough.  It's so easy to take that for granted...they know, right?  Yeah, they do, but it's also nice to have that affirmed on a regular basis.

You can also tell them that everyone being safe and protected is always the #1 goal.

A kid will see this as "mom vs dad".  An adult will see this as, "Well, life is complicated and this isn't black and white."  We all wish that your relationship would work out and hey, maybe it does.  But you have to push back on that "mom vs dad" narrative since it's not true. 

You're on "team mom" just as much as anyone else.  You want great things for her whether it works out or not.  That's the mother of your kids, of course you're rooting for her regardless.  Let the kids see that and make it known that you'd love to be a family if things can get there.  But even if they don't, you're still going to hope for good things for mom and you're still going to be there for them.

Maybe that cuts some of the tension.

Thank you!  16 yo is in counseling. 14 yo does extensive ballet making her schedule very hard. She would do therapy but isn’t enthusiastic and refuses to anything by video call (her own post Covid aversion).

She needs it. I believe she worries about her mom and intuitively believes that if I were around it would help her mother or at the very least I’d return to being the worrier and she’d let herself off the hook as the worrier. Counseling definitely needed but a lot of hurdles exist.

Are the kids in counseling? (highly recommended).

The old movie "Parent Trap" illustrates this kind of imagination kids have. I think in some ways this makes you feel bad to see her feel this way but know that this is her being a kid. She is going to have her own age appropriate ideas about this and feelings about it. Hopefully she has a neutral counselor to work with on these.

My parents did not divorce, but their issues were apparent to me at age 14. Still, I had no real idea about adult relationships. I recall saying to my BPD mother something like "the boy I "liked" at summer camp and I didn't fight so why can't she and Dad get along?". That's about the level of understanding a 14 year old has.

Yet, I was also parentified and BPD mother confided TMI to me. Somehow, even by that age, I felt responsible for her feelings and so, it's possible your D may feel she needs to "fix" the situation.

Because of hearing TMI, I did ask my father some questions that he probably was uncomfortable hearing but I was only asking them because of what I had heard myself. I still didn't fully understand what I was asking.

Your D may "see through" your inauthentic answers and yet, she still has no real idea about the complexity in your relationship, but at her age, it's not for her to know. (probably TMI to know personal details about one's parents' relationship at any age).

From my own experience, this is what I needed to know from my father- that he loved me, and that no matter what happened between him and my mother- it wouldn't change anything between us.

Valiate her feelings "I understand this is scary and you want us to reconcile" "but it is up to us as your parents to manage this situation". That it is OK for her to ask questions and she can talk to you if she's worried, but you hope she can let the adults be the ones to manage this, and that your wish for her is to enjoy being 14, with her friends and school.

However, what you do say to her needs to be authentic. Saying things like "hopefully some day" doesn't ring true and she knows that. It's probably not going to be like that (even if my parents stayed married- there were still issues). Although you are saying these things to help her to feel better, they aren't true and so they backfire and also can feel invalidating in a way, as if she needs to not feel sad or upset. Her feelings are normal. I think it might be better to say  you "understand how she feels" and  just hug her and reassure her that it's normal to feel that way.

As a child of a mother with BPD (and other's from the that board have stated too) we have our wishes. We wish things could be normal. They aren't normal. But it's normal for us to wish for that and also normal for us to feel sad that things aren't. Your divorce from her mother is not the reason things aren't normal and reconciling won't make them normal and you know that.

I don't know the road not taken but I can tell you that staying together involved issues too. However, your ex wife may be blaming her situation on that. You know that isn't true. Either way- had my father stayed or left, I would have to accept that he decided with the adult level information he had at the time.  You have made the best decision only you can make, not one a teen can fully comprehend at the time.

What I found to be helpful was getting away from the dynamics. Going away to summer camp for me was that kind of experience. If camp is doable for your D, that is something to consider.

What did I want most from my father? Him being the stable parent for me- and to know that he loved me unconditionally. You are protecting your own mental health and being available for your D. It's scary, it's unknown to her and she will feel what she feels. Be the emotionally safe parent for her to turn to.

I have gone no contact with my kids’ mom pursuant to a
Domestic violence protective order. The mom
Can only email me. Sorry I can’t remember the acronyms. 53 yo undiagnosed female. My older 16 yo daughter takes the brunt of her mother’s pressure and manipulation. She gets the low contact. Both kids are aware of the DVPO.

The 14 yo really wants us to be on better terms. Asks if we’re going to go to counseling. Cries over the state of things. Almost certainly harbors a reunion fantasy. I give her these trite ‘these things take time’ and ‘I hope we can be like that someday.’ But it’s bs and she lnows it. I don’t really know what to tell her that is real.

He needs to be reported to the DMV. How do you feel about that?

Though I lived 100 miles away, i heard stories. I couldn't bring myself to do so as it felt like betrayal. Ultimately, several people in the small, rural community did and her license was pulled. Same reason: dementia though it was before a formal Dx.

Hi there,

I think that everyone gets frustrated from time to time when under stress, or when expectations aren't met.  It's just that with BPD, I've noticed that generally, their frustration tolerance is very low.  In addition, when feeling frustrated, they tend to have a super-sized response.  Whereas a "normal" person might take a deep breath or mutter something, the pwBPD might become irate, over a seemingly minor, ordinary inconvenience.  Further, when someone is trying to help, the pwBPD typically lashes out at them.  There might be a bit of shame and overwhelming feelings of incompetence, too, which will make the pwBPD even meaner.  Another typical response (at least with the pwBPD in my life) will be to give up completely, regardless of the consequences.  The reason for giving up will typically be someone else's fault.

I'd add that confounding factor is sometimes the pwBPD's unrealistic expectations.  An example might be calculating journey times in unfamiliar situations.  My pwBPD seems to assume she has Star Trek-like teleportation abilities when travelling to an interview, new job or airport.  She has a track record of misunderstanding how travel is impacted by rush hour, public transportation snarls, wrong turns or trouble finding parking.  Yet when she's late, it's someone else's fault, not her poor planning.  The same sort of thing happens when attempting more complex, adult-level tasks, such as searching for a job.  It's as if she can't conceive of planning out the different stages of the process--completing a resume, searching for job listings, filling out applications, preparing for interviews, attending interviews and following up.  I think she thought that if she used the "Open to Work" option on her LinkedIn page, that recruiters would reach out to her with jobs.  Thus she misunderstands the process from the outset, but when she learns of the complexity, she's compeletly overwhelmed before she even gets started.  She takes any "rejection," not as part of the natural process of a job search, but as an indictment of her character and feels like a total failure.  Maybe she mistakenly thought that someone would GET her a job, but when that didn't happen, she was upset and felt rejected?

In this moment, you are the worst because that's what she's FEELING.  I keep going back to that word because it's where all the chaos stems from.  She's had those same feelings with anyone she's ever become close to, and eventually they said or did something that changed her feelings.

I only brought that up to help you see the bigger picture.  This isn't a fight you versus her.  This is a fight against mental illness and you're both fighting it at the same time.  She just happens to be choosing the wrong side to fight for.

I wish you luck and patience brother.  This is still a winnable fight if you want it to be.  But first, you need a little R&R to clear your mind and actually be able to think.  Take some time and we'll talk about if the marriage is worth saving another day.

Truly- we can not "fix" another person. Working on ourselves is the better path- to whatever decision that leads to.

The course sounds very informative and useful. Learning about BPD can help us to understand the other person but turning the focus inward is where we can be effective.

One exercise a T taught me is when being accused of something, first consider if it is true or not. If not- then substitute something absurd like "pink elephant" for the accusation. You wouldn't react if someone called you that as you are certain you aren't one. Also, your wife calling you that doesn't make it true.

It's good you are able to have the chance to look at your own feelings.

Is your girlfriend also seeing a therapist?  Is she truly diligently applying the therapy's insights in her perceptions, thinking and behavior?

If yes, then there may be hope for a long term relationship with her.  (There is no cure, but the discord can be reduced.)  If not...

A common pattern with relationships involving people with BPD traits is that, over time, the discord, poor behavior and ragefests tend to increase, not decrease.  Ponder that.  Despite your understandable hopes, the reality is that unless both of you are seriously responsive to meaningful therapy, then your future with her will likely be very troubled and dysfunctional.  And not just for you, for any children you may have with her too.