Hi everyone!

I was recommended this site by my thrapist. My girlfriend of 6 months has BPD and is not recieving treatment (by choice), and I'm hoping to find some support or confort here when I need it. This is my first relationship with someone who has BPD, and I'm really wanting it to last, so I hope to learn some communication and coping skills as well. I look forward to chatting with people ^^

DBT therapy is primarily for your spouse's mental health benefit, but of course the lessons and concepts taught are beneficial for us all.  If you do your work but she merely gives it token effort, then it's not enough to repair the relationship.

Sadly, your experience is one we're familiar with.  Without meaningful therapy and diligent application of the therapy in her perceptions, behavior and her overall life... well, as you've seen, everything gets progressively worse over time.

Can you deal with the situation as it is, not as you wish or hope it to be?  It's a sad reality that that when the conflict and discord has reached levels such as this, it is very difficult for the disordered partner to decide to truly want to work toward mental health recovery.  Not impossible, but quite a difficult task.  The typical Denial, Obstruction, Blaming and Blame Shifting is that strong.

Would it surprise you if I said it's complicated, and I'm Jell-O? Hah.

This first happened in 2022-ish, prior to her diagnosis. Years might be off. She had a large emotional movement, bigger than I'd seen before, brought on my an abrupt stop on taking anti-depressives she had been diagnosed. They weren't working but cold turkey didn't help. I was told to leave, and so I went to a hotel and stayed for a week.

It happened a little bit around a year ago, and also before then. But this year has been the worst. Coinciding with some agreeably inconsiderate actions on my side (legitimate moments that didn't make her feel like she mattered) it just blew up. I spent a week at a friend's in March before returning home. A few nights at my office. And then again in June for a day or two. And now, now.

Along the way, I'm wanting us to stay in therapy (this coming week would have been our move to a DBT-based couples therapist) and waiting for my DBT coursework to begin. She's actively in DBT since January in addition to doing an emergency 12 week course last year as FMLA. It's... been a rough year.

I think we need to be apart right now. She is not in her right mind. And the anger comes both ways, making it damned either way. But I'm not seeking Divorce. I've told her if she wants it, "get an attorney." I have one, but (no joke) I've also filled out divorce paperwork for us (3) times in this marriage. Each time, prior to going to the notary, she backs off.

The delusion I have today is that "if I do DBT, I can fix this." I hear everyone... I cannot change her. But I keep thinking... maybe another 4-5 months of DBT and we'll get there?

This round has been hard. The last 10 or so days (I was at home during them) happened after an argument about why I hadn't moved my last books into our new home (we had a 30 day overlap). I tried to explain that I wanted a few at my office, a few didn't matter and then I'd bring the rest over and was met with "you make excuses." When I tried to establish a boundary and ask we not talk about this until our couples session, I was met with an increasingly loud attack against me, my character, my loyalty, and my ability to "leave whenever I want to." A week after moving in to our home, a few weeks after signing our loan... . Sigh.

In these moments it is and isn't her. So I waffle. If she takes it to an attorney and wants to get ugly, I'm not worried. But it's not what I want. And in the middle of a heated text beratement (because I won't block her yet and she won't talk on the phone) she'll often say "why couldn't you be the soft pillow I need, or why haven't you stopped  to say 'Baby, baby, I love you' even once during the last ten minutes?"

Makes me feel delusional.

Don't call me. Why didn't you call?
I hate you. I love you.
Leave. Don't leave.

She's not right in her mind. The pebble at the top of the cliff became a landslide on the town (me) below. Problem is, the way I see it... I probably had something to do with that pebble during a hike. So I'm like... okay, let's find new places to put our pebbles!

My support group condones me leaving. And understands that I'm wrestling with it.

But I look at how close we got to everything we've been working for and it just feels  like... damn, this is just an attempt to self-sabotage.

So I'm firm in not going home right now. Not for two weeks. I'm firm  on not wanting a divorce but not being afraid of what's next. I'm just really, really exhausted.

I need this time. Just to rebuild and refill my cup.

How firm are you in this being a separation? Maybe I'm wrong but I get the sense from your posts that this is a reactive situation, coming from a recent escalation, rather than a situation that you have come to a decision to do this. It seems that prior to this, you were working in therapy, bought a house, not planning a separation. Then an escalation happened.

Either way- firm in the decision, or not so sure and reacting, I think it helps to know where you are at in all of this. Your wife's feelings can change. In one moment she can be yelling at you to leave and then when you do, be yelling at you for leaving.

There's a push-pull to these kinds of relationships. An escalation, then there's the reconciliation. Looking at your wife's feelings as the decision maker- you will be going back and forth with this.

If you aren't at the point that you choose to leave the marriage, then this may be a temporary situation. It's not a bad thing to have some time to yourself to think about things. Your wife may be escalating now, and out of control. Your task is to manage your feelings, try to stay calm in the storm, for now.

We are all humans and if someone is being verbally and emotionally abusive-  eventually, we feel pushed over the edge. When we react, we do it to somehow get the other person to stop, or see the impact this has on us and feel motivated to stop, or sometimes if we've resisted reacting, we just can't in the moment.

I had been living away from home for quite some time, and while I did continue to see my parents, during this time, I spent more time staying with them and so experienced more of BPD mother's behavior than before. Seeing this dynamic from an adult perspective, I learned that it didn't do any good and in fact, would mostly be hurtful to me to do it.

For BPD mother, it did feel hurtful in the moment, but her response to feeling that way was to dissociate and project it outward. So she didn't learn from her behavior, and it didn't change anything. I think our reasons to not do this may come from not wanting to hurt the other person, but at this point, I realized that doing this would be hurtful to me too.

In fact, when BPD mother was being hurtful to someone else, sometimes if they reacted to that, she'd be bewildered and think they were hurting her instead. Sometimes she was deliberately hurtful on purpose but other times, she didn't connect her behavior to how someone else reacted. She was overwhelmed with her own feelings. Other people's feelings were not in her perception.

I think another reason we express anger and hurt to someone is because we are invested in the relationship. We want them to see that what they are doing isn't helpful to the relationship. We want to find some way to reconcile. Seeing that this also didn't help achieve that, I didn't see any reason to do it.

It's not wrong to feel anger or hurt. They are legitimate feelings. However, we can choose how to respond to that, and for me, it was keeping some boundaries. They may not have been the same as some in a romantic relationship but I think the general idea- if we feel that way- we need to be able to calm down and then decide how to respond fits all relationships.

All of us here know how precarious those changes are, from "in the marriage" to "separated".  This is a time where risks are heightened, DV is more likely and especially false allegations and petitions for protection.  The disordered spouse will be prone to claim victimhood, whether true or not.  So be especially careful now that you take special care not to appear aggressive in any way (or get "framed for mischief").

I've often framed my comments as "imagine you have a judge watching over your shoulder".

I can't count the number of allegations made against me during our separation and the early years of our divorce.  Of course, child custody was at stake so therefore her allegations, though unsubstantiated, were quite vicious and nasty.  Through it all I somehow remained calm and didn't retaliate in kind.

Thank you for sharing that story Notwendy; that's intense and I can relate to that feeling of sadness that accompanies speaking  your mind.

The triangle is very helpful, I've not seen that before. Thank you for sharing that resource.

I've pissed in the wind three times in this relationship. I can count them on my hand. I regret each one, and  then it happens again when I'm emotionally cornered. Hindsight... woof.

At the later part of my father's life- he was ill and I was upset about that and not in an emotional place to handle BPD mother, I let loose on her and told her exactly what I thought.

It felt good to speak my mind in the moment but also later, regret and feeling badly about myself for that. The position of "mother" is held in high esteem- we are not supposed to speak to our parents like that. I also didn't want to hurt her. I was upset about all that was going on.

Then came the retaliation. I think a "normal" mother could have taken the perspective that if a person is about to lose their father, they are not in a stable emotional place, and would want to  keep the relationship. In another situation, I think both would have been invested in apologizing and reconciliation.

I think it will help to read about the Karpman triangle dynamics. https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle. I think pwBPD maintain "Victim" position on the triangle. Others take on the other roles- Rescuer, Persecutor, but not Victim. The pwBPD is the only "victim".

That is why, if someone else is feeling hurt, or sad- the pwBPD can not perceive this. Understandable that this situation was difficult for BPD mother but she could not also see that it was difficult for the adult children too. So, to her, I could only be in Persecutor position and she would retaliate in self defense.

(Of note- physical abuse was not present in any of the interactions. BPD mother didn't resort to that, and neither did anyone else even consider it.)

I realized that expressing feelings of hurt or anger to her did no good and made the situation worse. It wasn't worth doing. Even though there were times I did get angry, and say angry things in the moment (we are all human) I didn't get angry at her like that again. I could catch myself, stop, and tone it down sooner.  I compared this to "peeing in the wind". Due to projection of difficult feelings- it all comes back at you.

My boundaries became quiet ones. The acronym, from 12 steps is "HALT"- hungry, angry, lonely, tired, and you can add other emotions to them. If I was feeling any of them, it was a sign for me to take a time out, get a grip on myself, and wait until I felt calm enough to interact. If this meant politely, getting off the phone, stepping out of the room, saying "I need a moment" or "I need to think about that" or just going quiet and stop talking. It takes two to have these interactions, one can decide to not keep talking.

Very poignant talk, even if blunt. These are all incredibly important points. Thank you to everyone here for all of your thoughts and input. Navigating the first 24 hours of our separation has gone how you'd imagine it would... I know that even *with* every tool in the chest, I'm only one part of this equation.