Hi lisaea1523 !

I have reviewed your first, second, and third posts.

From what I read, I see signs of codependency. Do you agree? Please self-evaluate yourself and read more about it as needed.

The fact that he is withdrawn and depressed rather than outbursting is good. But this will certainly not stand. The outbursts will come back. So you'll have to learn how to enforce boundaries, and if he does not allow you to do so, you'll have to force both of you to proceed into a living-apart-together relationship.

But it seems like you won't be able to do that until you have solved your issue with being enmeshed with him. The enmeshment actually makes his disorder worse, and it prevents you from stepping firm. Let me make an analogy here: how can a mom teach a child to control their emotions when her own emotions are affected by the child's? She can't. That's exactly what happens with my wife. She can't deal with your 2-year-old, but with me everything goes well. So before he learns to stop taking it out on you and the kids, you'll have to learn how to be well on your own, regardless of his mood.


Please seek your own treatment. In my case, audible self-help books worked, but usually a human therapist is needed to heal your wounds that lead to your adult attachment issues, childhood emotional neglect, etc.

I tried to get him to move out due to emotional outbursts no longer tolerable he kept saying he would and putting it off but he never left. He had a positive "break through" conversation with my kids in an attempt to calm and reassure them- this was the main issue for the separation. Ever since I told him I wanted him to move out he has been extremely withdrawn and depressed. We are barely talking at all. He only leaves for a few hours and then comes back and we sit together in silence and misery. He is very involved with our 10 week old and seems to find joy and purpose caring for the baby. He will talk to me about her needs but nothing else. We're sleeping in the same bed again. Sex is completely off the table- he refuses. He will let me hug him and kiss him on the cheek, pet his hair or rub his back but he doesn't touch me at all. Sometimes he asks me to do a small simple favor for him like food, ect I think it's a test to see if I still care. I do these things of course. We are EXTREMELY emeshed with one another- I don't do anything for myself. I just went back to work. Both of us are a mental wreck- depressed, no energy or motivation. I went to a dr and got on medication a few weeks ago. I'm on a waitlist for a therapist who can hopefully help us both. I feel completely stuck and incapable of change. He switched from the outward angry outbursts and dramatic emotions to complete shut down. I have no idea what is going to happen- I wonder how long can things continue this way??? How long will he stay in the relationship as it currently is until he's had enough. Will he eventually leave? Idk. If he is happy- I'm happy. I definitely feel all of his emotions and am significantly impacted by his moods. They have a direct impact on mine so we are both just stuck like this and nothing is changing not even for a moment. Maybe he only stays to help with the baby because he's afraid I can't do it on my own. But again how long can things continue this way or what will happen next?? The uncertainty is driving me insane.

Rowdy, this video has helped me to understand your situation: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dYguLokVq4I?feature=share

For me, this is clearly caused by the abnormalities in the EOS, which have already been detected in scientific studies. The reason why this matters is because there is effective pharmacological treatment for the low opioid tone, which can be used through life.

And my wife began such treatment yesterday. In a couple of weeks, I should have good news.

Hi Mitt.

I think that writing letters but not sending them is a good idea whenever you feel the need.

I have written a few to my gc over the 5 yrs of estrangement which has helped me as a form of  emotional release.  I also sent birthday cards up until last year but always had a gut feeling deep down that they would never receive them which has been recently confirmed, but at the time I made sure to take pictures of each one before sending them as proof down the line if the gc were ever curious in the future that they were never forgotten.

It would be nice to have your gc in your life to get to know him as young children are so healing in many ways but it doesnt sound like your udd is open to this line of thinking and is using your gc as a pawn to punish you as my udd also does.

Your dd is thinking about her own immediate needs and she doesnt have the ability to provide the empathy and moral support and it will always be all about her especially if she sticks with a therapist who never challenges her thinking.

Your dd will carry too much resentment if you try to include her even if it is only on an emotional level. She will probably resent the way you look after your wife, the  amount of attention you give her, the amount of appointments you attend with her, the amount of times you speak about her...etc. I may actually be irritating to her so I think that it is better to  just focus on your wife right now as i think building bridges with your dd at this moment in time is just likely to cause you all further stress.

Absolutely.

My wife cheated, her reason being she didn’t think I loved her.

She then monkey branched, because she wanted to feel more loved. Despite constantly telling her I loved her and doing everything I could for her, seeking external validation from someone that called her amazing and brought some flowers round, completely ignoring many, many red flags.

I’m sure at some point that version of enough will become not enough.

I think that's one way to look at it: that pwBPD have poorly-developed and immature ways of looking at the world.  I've also seen this analogized with colors: to them they're only capable of seeing and processing things in black or white, and they therefore can't cope with the reality that the world is many shades of gray. 

Their view of love is also very self-serving and shallow; it's not altruistic, and doesn't translate into any sort of acceptance, patience, or tolerance for their significant other's own needs and wants.  As soon as there's any sort of conflict, or failure to deliver on a demand, you'll wonder where that love went, as you're shamed, called names, berated, subjected to fake sob sessions and, some even get physically assaulted.  But they love you, of course, so you have to ignore this and forgive them.

Don't internalize or accept her criticisms of you.  No one is perfect, and no one's imperfections justify being emotionally, verbally, or even physically abused, and treated as your wife treats you, or mine did to me, or how any pwBPD treats their spouse, or significant other. 

Being frugal is prudent, and rest assured that had you given into her demands, it wouldn't have satisfied her, she'd just want more.  That's pretty much the nature of BPD. 

funnily enough I was thinking that exact analogy NotWendy mentioned this morning. Slightly out of context.

It was elsewhere on the internet and a pwBPD suggesting that they love more deeply and quickly than a nuerotypical person and I’d responded with how that is measured, whether a borderline has a love-o-meter to measure that. That a borderlines love is only more due to the fact they want to be loved more in an unhealthy way towards the relationship.

A physiologist answered basically saying the pwBPD doesn’t understand love in the same way a normal person does and they have been emotionally stunted in infancy, usually through some form of trauma.

The analogy that came into my head was like a child in a sweet shop that saw some candy they really wanted but had not put in the work, or saved up enough to buy the candy, but they grab it anyway and run out of the shop. They then consume that candy as quickly as possible and become sick. They then return to the sweet shop and blame the owner of the store for making them sick.

Great observations here, and the analogy of emotional vomit is apt . . . especially since it ends up all over you, you're upset by it and you have to stop what you're doing to clean up the mess, and yet the ick seems to linger for the rest of the day.

Indeed the pwBPD in my life has had years of therapy, and she's adept at brandishing psychological terminology.  At first I was surprised she knew the word narcissist, because she's generally not very articulate, EXCEPT when she's describing the abuses and traumas she feels others are inflicting upon her.  She's "bullied."   She's "traumatized."  Her family is "toxic."  Her mom is a "narcissist," "psychotic" and "delusional."  Her dad is "abusive," "controlling" and "invalidating."  Her relative is "condescending."  Another relative is "over medicated."  And yet the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that these terms describe her own behavior much better than that of the people she's accusing.  It's mostly projection. 

Hi CC43,

Thank for your information and recommendations!

I especially like the idea of writing letters to my grandson and waiting to give them to him when he reaches adulthood. I thought about doing that with birthday and seasonal cards but letters sound more personal.