I’m curious if anyone has the experience of a person who is endlessly frustrated when things (physical objects, electronics, software, etc.) don’t work exactly as they expect.  They get incredibly angry, and then get mad at any suggestion of workarounds or fixes because they are not the way they wanted to do things.   

Interesting as I didn't have a name for "ACT" but did work with a T and also in 12 steps to be aware of my feelings and not judge them. Feelings have a purpose- they keep us safe. However, we aren't biologically much different than our early ancestors when we feel emotions.  Fear kept them safe from hungry bears or preditors. Now, we might have fear of a disordered relative - but they are not a bear and the danger is not the same. So we can still feel that fear but cognitively decide on how to respond.

12 steps (ACA, CODA) has an acronym for FEAR- False Evidence Appearing Real. I still felt fear around my BPD mother. This fear, and the trying to predict what she might do- was an adaptive response to her behavior. However, even if the fear felt the same as our ancient ancestors, the possible danger may not be the same, so I would do what I could to manage this- it's my own feelings. I could choose how much contact I could manage, have boundaries. For some people, no contact is the better choice.

If a fear is a constant anxiety- so much that it takes over too much- that becomes something to work on more, but accepting that we feel what we feel is a first step.

I can understand the concern for your sister being alone as a factor. When my father passed away, my BPD mother was an elderly widow and it didn't feel OK to me to go NC, but I had to have some boundaries with this.

You can also decide how to navigate your relationship with your sister according to what seems to be the most workable for you.

Thinking about Pook's, CC43's, and NotWendy's comments on the issue of advance strategizing in anticipation of how pwubpd might react

.... I see both sides of this. 

Most of my time since I was told about bpd has been working with a therapist to understand, react less, and hone my dbt skills.  That helped in terms of level of conflict and gave me some ability to pull out of conflict, but it also got me into the rut of spending a lot of time thinking about what the pwubpd might do and assessing myself for how good a job I was doing in handling them -- in other words, caretaking.  It's only the last couple of years that I've moved away from that approach, focused on my trauma response to this situation, and -- only recently -- started recognizing my caretaking behavior and having some mental shifts.  So that's the downside of strategizing.

On the other hand, it has helped me feel safer and, as CC43 and NotWendy guessed, I was reared for fear in my FOO.   Knowing I have some skills helps and I also can't judge my own nervous system.  So that's the upside.

The dialectic synthesis (I think, for me, at this moment): I've just taught myself about ACT through youtube videos of trained therapists and am trying to implement it -- accepting my fear, staying in the moment, defusing, understanding it in my context, etc. (Hoping to find a therapist who employs it.)

Thanks, all, for getting me to this point.

Zachira: No flying monkeys here.  Pwubpd is pretty alone.  That's a trap of a different sort -- pulls on the heart strings, especially since I know their childhood trauma. 

Have you yet had time with your children, or at least phone contact, assuming the temp order doesn't prohibit that?  Of course, you can't contact your ex directly or indirectly for now, but there needs to be some method to do this.  As previously mentioned, there is a distinction between spousal contact versus parental contact.

One seeming obstacle is that police and other professionals will not go beyond written orders.  The legal presumption during marriage is that, barring a court order to the contrary, both parents have equal but undefined parenting rights.  Among newly separated parents, that often allows one parent in possession to make it a "no man's land" for the other.  If you are denied parenting access by the other parent, yet there is no court order in place, then it is up to you to obtain a court order, at first a temporary one, to set guidelines on the details to enable such parenting time.

Most of us who were faced with a BPD spouse initially faced obstruction of our parenting.  That's where the court system stepped in to be the referee, though an astoundingly grudging slow one.

   Thanks!

I agree that worrying and thinking about the possible reactions isn't the most functional behavior- and it would be better to not do it, but, if we grew up with this- it had the purpose of helping us to feel safer. It also gave us a sense of control- which was probably an illusion but when we had no control over BPD mother's reactions, we could at least try to anticipate them.

It takes some time to "undo" some of this learned behavior and also it may not be possible to completely unlearn it, but we can recognize it and rationalize it which helps us to manage the feelings.

If this happens in adulthood in a marriage, the behaviors can still be learned and adaptive but also these experiences might elicit a childhood response if we also had a disordered parent growing up.

It's not a normal thing to feel we have to strategize with a family member but the backlash can be significant. It also can be unavoidable. We can learn to be less reactive to the person's reaction. When we told BPD mother about the trip to my father's family she was angry, upset, then refused to speak to us. By that time I had learned to not react or JADE when she was upset. A few weeks later she was speaking to us as usual as if nothing happened.

But sometimes the reactions could be worse- she could destroy property, "paint us black" to others. If she told my father we upset her, he might get angry too. So we did learn to avoid them if possible and even if it wasn't possible, it was how we tried to deal with that.

My advice is to learn as much as you can about "flying monkeys", the ones who enable disordered people. Some flying monkeys are similar to the disordered people and others can be innocent well meaning individuals. There are many articles and videos on the internet about flying monkeys.


Every summer, I spend time in the area I grew up where the deck is loaded with flying monkeys. What has helped the most, is to improve my boundaries, especially around limiting unnecessary personal disclosures that can be somehow used to give the disordered people easier ways to continue the smear campaign.

Have a great time!!

Absolutely makes sense.....

Hi again,

I can really relate to Wantmorepeace's concern about backlash from the pwBPD upon learning of the upcoming trip and visit.  My guess is that the concern exists because Wantmorepeace is on the receiving end of major backlash whenever this sort of thing happens.  I agree with Pook that you can't prevent these reactions in other people.  But I think it's normal to worry about them, because, well, it really hurts us, and it's natural to want to protect ourselves from harm.  My strategy is to "gird my loins" while staying true to my mission (values).

I can relate because my husband, who I wouldn't say has BPD but shows BPD traits from time to time, invariably becomes upset with me when I do certain things outside the home with other people.  A short visit to help a family member would typically be triggering for him, especially if I were absent around dinner time.  I've found that, no matter what I do, I can't prevent the backlash.  I've tried sharing my schedule with him in advance and reminding him in the preceding days, so as not to "spring" it on him.  I've tried minimizing my absence, for example by limiting the duration of a trip to a few hours.  I've tried catering to his needs, such as leaving him with snacks and a prepared meal.  I've tried inviting him to come along (but he never wants to).  I've tried explaining ("It's important to help family, it doesn't happen often, I'm only gone for an afternoon").   I've tried bribery:  "If you let me go, I'll cook you your favorite meal when I get back."  I've resorted to notions of fairness:  "You visited with your brother last week for two days, and I didn't complain; in fact I encouraged you.  You can let me help my sibling for one afternoon."

I think the reality is, there is absolutely nothing I can do to prevent a backlash.  He's going to have a tantrum and express his displeasure, no matter what I do.  Deep down, I think that he knows he's being unreasonable and unfair.  But the backlash always follows the same script:  I'm away for "too long."  I'm being a *hitty wife.  I didn't inform him of my plans early enough/with enough specificity; or I didn't remind him enough times, and I didn't ask for his express permission.  I left him "all alone" to "fend for himself."  I don't do anything nice for HIM.  I'm having a "social life" without him.  I'm not taking care of him.  I'm sneaking out.  I'm having an affair.  I left him with no food.  It's unacceptable that I'm AWOL 5 pm, what will he have for dinner?  Etc., etc.

OK, I'll admit that before I understood this behavior, I tried really hard to appease him, mostly by severely limiting my own social life.  But I started resenting that.  I wasn't willing to sacrifice all my friends and family relationships to prevent spousal tantrums.  And here's the other thing:  appeasement ultimately backfired.  I think it made his tantrums WORSE, because it gave him license to seek to control my every move, to micromanage a grown woman, including commentary on where I sit, when I sit and my sitting posture!  He started having tantrums when I had to travel for my job (which was infrequent, maybe three overnights per year, compared to my husband's travel rate of around three times a month).  He had tantrums if I attended evening board meetings (which are a requirement for a C-Suite executive).  It was EXHAUSTING dealing with him.  And I was frazzled, becoming somebody I could barely recognize.  For what?  To prevent tantrums?  I decided, he was going to have his tantrums no matter what I did.  So I might as well live my life.

And then I came here, not because of him, but because his daughter was diagnosed with BPD, after a few years of severe dysfunction.  Here, I learned about JADE.  Immediately a lightbulb lit--I could see that every time I defended myself ("I'm just helping my family, I told you last week, I'll be out for only three hours, I'll be back by dinnertime, what's the big deal, you see your family all the time, whenever you want, and I don't criticize you, I support you!  If you get hungry, make yourself a snack, I bought you your favorite snack yesterday . . .") it just made things worse.  If I used logic, it was adding fuel to the fire, and probably made him even madder, because he knew I was right, and he HATES me to be right, even more than he hates to be wrong, if that makes any sense.  Indeed he was a big bully, trying to get me to stay home, stay "small" and cater to his needs 100% of the time.  But I wasn't willing to do that, not anymore, not at the cost of total alienation from the world and my true self, and certainly not when it just backfires by making things worse.

What works for me?  I stay true to my "mission."  I don't intentionally try to do anything that would hurt my husband, and I think I treat him in a respectful and considerate manner.  By the same token, I'm helping my family when they need my help and I'm able to give it.  I'm having a social life, too--nothing crazy, but I deserve to see friends from time to time, because that's what healthy adults do.  I know my husband will throw a tantrum sometimes, because my having any sort of "social life without him" is upsetting to him.  My reaction?  I let him have a tantrum.  He'll typically yell and make all sorts of unreasonable accusations, but I try to stay calm.  Sometimes I point out the facts, as calmly as I can:  "It's 6 pm, I'm making you dinner now."  Or, "I choose to be with you every day."  Or, "I told you exactly where I would be, and I'm home exactly when I said I would be."  If he picks apart some tiny detail--what I'm wearing, when I informed and reminded him of my plans, how many times I texted or called him during my absence, how quickly I responded to his calls, if I walked in the door two minutes after my original ETA--I try to remind myself, it's not about the clothes, the communication rituals, the surveillance--he's mad because he felt abandoned.  And he knows it's irrational for a grown man to feel "abandoned" for a few hours.  If he doesn't calm down quickly, then I'll typically leave the scene, and retreat to another room in the house, in effect giving him an "adult time out."  He'll act huffy and give me the silent treatment, typically until the next morning.  Then, more often than not, it feels like he pretends the whole episode didn't happen.  Yes, he tries to "ruin" any outing I dare to take without him, and that is sad.  But what would be sadder is sacrificing all the other relationships in my life.  That's not healthy.  So I "gird my loins" and rely on my BPD tantrum management skills.  When he won't calm down, I give him a time out.  And in the process, I escape the torrent of yelling, false accusations and baloney.  Does that make sense?