Hi Karmakat23
Thank you for posting. I am going through a very rough patch myself at the moment and your post reminded me that there are others who are in a similar situation – exhausted from years of crises and supporting, ‘being there’ when no one else was – and then being the one who is blamed and lied about while all this support is taken for granted.

Perhaps you are not gong 10 steps back. Perhaps it’s a fork in the road. Someone with BPD has a fragile sense of self – but when you are the person who supports them, you tend to lose your own self in their needs and crises. Along the journey we are given many options, and I know that I have tended to always choose to support my BPD child, and especially when the next generation child comes on the scene.

You are not in a situation of options from what I read. Your DD has cut off contact, has denied you access to your grandchild. Now your mother says you ‘have to accept’ her decision in relation to your DD.

We feel so devastated and devalued when all this happens. It is hard to carry the pain of it all. But it is also an opportunity. I may be wrong but I feel my DD has, in the past, been somewhat empowered by my pain – a pain she has caused. When I realised this I taught myself to stop myself from falling into depression etc but to see it as an opportunity to nurture and find myself that had been submerged in responding to my DD’s needs.

I am not expressing myself very well. I think what I am trying to say is that you have given now for decades – you have been selfless and loving, and without any gratitude or recognition.

I feel like I will have to grieve my mother and move on because the wreckage is just to much.

I think yes, listen to  your feelings and your insight. You have the right to grieve, but you also have the right to acknowledge to yourself all that you have done. Sometimes it is a good idea to write all these things down and read them to yourself when you are feeling low. It is a way of remembering that you have done all that is possible to do and you have loved your child in every way possible.

If you can spend a short time each day just appreciating yourself and the gift of your life I think it is helpful.

Thanks again for posting.

In our case, regarding medical decisions, the tiebreaker is the doctor. 

So if the doctor recommends a course of treatment and one parent disagrees, the doctor's recommendation is the tiebreaker. 

You could do this for mental health decisions, dental treatments, etc. 

It becomes harder to do with things where you don't have a qualified professional in the equation.  I've heard some decrees specify mediation as a tiebreaker for other things.  That could be as inexpensive as a $1,000 or so to book a few hours with a mediator, or be as expensive as a full-blown lawsuit if both parties get attorneys. 

In other matters, like school for examples, the default around where I live is the custodial parent's residence would establish it.  Even if custody is 50/50, one parent is still designated as the custodial. 

I went through a lot of this.

In my case, the advice I received (I feel like I'm sharing this a lot lately) was to validate a child's feelings and perception, but not to badmouth the other parent.  And, this is important, to help them realize they can have their own thoughts and feelings separately from mom or dad (whoever is BPD).  It can be difficult sometimes, because pwBPD just do not do themselves any favors in terms of how they behave toward those closest to them.  I think it's okay to say how someone behaved is inappropriate, but you don't have to go as far as labeling them something.  I think that might be one rule: criticize the parent's behavior, but not the parent (at least not yet).

In time, as they get older, they might ask for more information, as they see how other adults behave and realize how out-of-line the BPD parent is. 

My sister has a highly contentious divorce and parenting schedule with her uNPD, high-conflict, non-cooperative, dysfunctional ex-husband.  I see you're considering potential issues around non-cooperation and unilateral decision-making, which are exactly the sort of things you should be considering.  However, no matter how much you try to establish the legal "rules," that doesn't necessarily mean they'll stick to them in practice--because BPD/NPD often means being governed by emotions and not by fair play, and typically not in the child's best interest.  That's why you need to document everything, in case you need to go back to court.  

Anyway, in practice, I think it means that when your child is with you, you proceed with your normal parenting:  taking your child to the doctor, taking him/her to activities, monitoring screen time, doing homework, sharing meals, etc.  If your kid needs to go to the orthodontist, I'd say, just schedule an office visit during your parenting time if you want to ensure the orthodontist visit actually happens.  Ditto a visit to the pediatritian.  If your kid wants to play soccer, then you go ahead and take your kid to soccer practice during your parenting time.  Maybe mom doesn't want to deal with the hassle of soccer practice, and that would be a shame, but at least your kid plays soccer when they're with you.  You could put the activities and doctor's visits on the common calendar for record-keeping, and I doubt that any court would rule that a doctor's visit or soccer practice is detrimental to the child.  Your ex could throw a fit if she wants, but as long as you do what's right for your kid, there's little she can do.  I mean, how could she justify saying that going to the doctor is bad for the child?

One area of possible contention might be child phones, for example if one parent wants a 12-year-old to have a phone and the other one doesn't.  I'd say, the child could have the phone with the parent (e.g. mom) who allows it, but when visitation is over, she leaves the phone at mom's house.  Mom might argue she wants to be able to contact her kid while at your place, and you tell her, she can call when she wants on your phone, but she's not supposed to interrupt your parenting time.  As for contacting your child while at school, she can call the school's office as has been done for decades.

Another possible area of contention is media use.  An example is that one parent wants to abide by movie ratings (e.g. a 10-year-old wouldn't watch a movie rated PG-13 or R, or watch pornography), and the other parent lets their kids watch anything on devices with no parental controls.  I think in practice, media consumption is difficult to enforce from afar.  I think that you establish the rules for your house and hope for the best at mom's house.  But if you find evidence that your kid is consuming inappropriate media at mom's house, you might try to document it and get the court to intervene.  But the reality is it's costly.

With my disordered BIL, there have been some questionable parenting decisions, such as taking his girls (aged 10 at the time) to get their hair permed and colored in whacky colors, and also wearing age-inappropriate, suggestive clothes, such as high heels and the like.  Though that sort of thing angered their mom, at the end of the day, it was just hair, and just clothes, meaning nothing permanent.  Maybe you could stipulate in the parenting plan that there could be no body-altering procedures (e.g. tattoos, piercings, gender affirmation surgeries) without consent from both parents.  

At the end of the day, what got the court to severely restrict parenting time by the disordered parent was a detailed CPS report.  In it, the guardian ad litem detailed deficient parenting:  inability to provide meals to the kids, not keeping child-friendly food in the house, unclean living quarters, evidence of verbal abuse of the kids (e.g. calling them whores and idiots), sleeping during most of the parenting time, inability to pick up the children in a timely manner (making them miss their scheduled activities), missing a material amount of parenting time with inadequate notice, car accidents/evidence of unsafe driving, parentification issues, etc.  In other words, he was unable to fulfill basic parental duties consistently.  Sure, he had a million excuses and blamed his ex-wife for all sorts of things, but CPS saw through all that eventually.

I've often commented that I like the concept of Decision Making or Tie Breaker status but occasionally I've had responses that those terms weren't possible in their states.  For example, I've heard that Florida doesn't have separate categories for custody and parenting.  So interviewing some of your more experienced local family law attorneys (lawyers or solicitors) may inform you of approaches they've tried.  You don't have to pay a retainer or hire every lawyer you consult or interview.

When seeking Tie Breaker status, you can explain to the court that sometimes a prompt resolution to a timely issue is necessary but that the other parent would still have the option (and expense) to seek appointed professionals' decision later.  Those professionals may be mediators, parenting coordinators or even the court itself.

For example, there may be school or medical decisions that can't be put off for months and months until court gets around to a series of hearings.

Some looked at the interests of the other parent.  Perhaps the custody could be split into various groups.  You ex might feel that is a "win" if one gets religious or dental authority while the other gets medical or school authority... sort of a mix and match.

Most courts are reluctant to modify orders.  Part of this may be that they really want the parents to "work it out".  That's how a petition or motion in court can take several hearings before finally the court is forced to issue a decision.  (And judges don't like to make decisions since they can be appealed and there is risk of a reversal.)  So often they'll try to make as small a change as possible.  The lesson I (belatedly) walked away with:  Get as good and futureproof of a court order from the very start.

I recall when I was at the too-brief initial temp order hearing and my lawyer whispered to me, "Shh... we'll fix it later."  Yeah, like two years later?  Lesson learned.  Boilerplate temp orders may be somewhat temporary in most court cases but our sort of cases take much, much longer to get resolved.

Thank you ForeverDad. The book sounds helpful, does it mention BPD? We don't have any diagnosis, I'm sure it would be helpful regardless. Lately I have really seen how his behavior affects them. He can be fine for long periods, and it gets bad when he smokes marijuana. He will go months not touching it, and things are great, and months using it, where he becomes short tempered, entitled, manipulative and arrogant. Honestly I've come to realize what a low standard I've been having for "things are great", it's really not that great and there is still emotional abuse.

This site is our comfort zone where we can feel safe and free to seek practical solutions.  No need to apologize.  I somehow didn't notice your marital status.  That's why many of my posts cover a variety of scenarios.  That way even others besides yourself who browse here can benefit.  Feel free to pick our brains and determine what fits your needs.

In my own experience, like so many others, I found it hard to decide.  One way I look at it, my other choices didn't work or clearly weren't wise.  Though I didn't want my marriage/relationship to end, eventually I saw a path forward.  Better said, the path forward was made more obvious to me.  It wasn't easy nor without more pain along the way, but each step forward became progressively clearer.

Thank you again for the responses. One thing I’m also wondering about is whether anyone here has experience with custody orders that are still technically “joint,” but include some kind of tie-breaking authority or defined decision-making power when the parents cannot agree.

I’m not trying to cut the other parent out of major decisions. Ideally, I would like both parents to be involved and for decisions to be made cooperatively. The issue I’m running into is that when my ex gets upset, she can make sweeping decisions on her own, change the schedule, withhold cooperation, or frame unilateral choices as being in our child’s best interest without actually including me.

That leaves me in a position where I either have to accept the decision, risk escalating the conflict, or wait for court while the situation continues. I’m trying to think ahead about what kind of structure actually protects the child and prevents one parent from using conflict or emotion as a way to control the situation.

Has anyone had an order where legal custody stayed joint, but one parent had final decision-making authority in certain areas after a good-faith attempt to confer? Or where there were specific categories like medical, school, therapy, extracurriculars, travel, or schedule disputes that had a clear fallback mechanism?

I’m especially interested in what actually worked in real life. For example:

• tie-breaking authority after written notice and a response window
• parenting coordinator involvement
• specific decision categories assigned to each parent
• requirements that schedule changes be mutually agreed in writing
• limits on unilateral changes unless there is a true emergency
• consequences or remedies when one parent ignores the order

I’m trying to protect both myself and my son from situations where instability or retaliation can suddenly override the normal parenting structure. I still want joint parenting in principle, but I’m realizing that “joint” only works if there is a practical mechanism for what happens when one parent refuses to cooperate.

I agree with TelHill it might be best to let the lawyer handle most of the communications about the divorce. It can be counterproductive in getting the divorce settled more quickly and more amicably when you make yourself available more than necessary for private conversations with your wife. Your wife may be better behaved and more reasonable with the lawyer. Do prioritize self care during this painful difficult time.

As a decent person, it is understandable you want to end the marriage in the kindest way possible. That can only be possible, if your wife also puts her best foot forward.

Hi again, hotchip. Thank you for asking this, because I can see how it reads confusing or contradictory.

I think the children question comes into play because it is the most urgent topic right now. The marriage/proposal issue has been going on for years, and now the question of children is tied into that because of time, fertility, and the feeling that we’ve reached some kind of breaking point.

But what you’re describing, the inconsistency between “maybe this should end” and “I’m not ready for kids,” is actually at the root of the whole problem. These feelings of wanting to stay or go have been there for years. We have been close to breaking up before, but we both return to one another. Even now, when we’ve taken a bit of space, I remember what I feel when the relationship seems like it might be ending. I miss her terribly, I look around at the life we built together, and I start thinking, “Maybe I’ve been foolish. Maybe I’ve been sabotaging this. Maybe I’m the one who can’t see clearly.”

So to be honest, I don’t know what the right thing to do is. I wish I could say that underneath the fear and guilt I clearly know the answer, but I don’t. I’ve been working on this in therapy for a long time, and my own gut feelings still feel very hard to access. I don’t know what my gut is telling me anymore.

One therapist said something that stuck with me: that I may be stuck in pain avoidance. Either direction is painful, staying or leaving, so I stay in the middle. I think there is truth in that, though even that doesn’t describe the whole thing perfectly.

What makes it so confusing is that even when I get some space, I don’t suddenly think, “Aha, now I clearly see I need to leave.” Instead, I think about the good things, the love, the years together, the life we built, and I start wondering if I’m just ruining everything through fear and avoidance.

So yes, I can understand why it looks like I’m saying two different things. I think that’s because internally I’m living in two different places at once. One part of me feels exhausted and unsafe and thinks this may not be repairable. Another part misses her, loves her, and wonders if I’ve been too frozen to step into the life we were supposed to have.

I know that must be frustrating to read. It’s also frustrating to live inside my own head with this. It feels so convoluted that I can’t make heads or tails of anything.


Hi ForeverDad. Thank you for your message and for sharing your experience and knowledge.

The BPD “FOG” idea is new to me, but it seems to definitely describe what I’m going through.

What you said about this being a peer support site is exactly why I started posting here. I had felt very alone in this experience. It helps to read from people who have been there, even if no one can make the decision for me.

I hope I didn’t give the impression that I’m expecting someone here to decide for me. I know the decision is mine. I think I’m here more because I’m trying to understand the situation through people who recognize the patterns from lived experience. At some point a therapist can offer tools, but there is something different about hearing from people who have actually lived through similar things.

Just to clarify, my partner is not my wife. We are unmarried, and that is part of the pain I have caused her. Also, I definitely don’t think a child would fix the relationship. I don’t believe that, and I’m sorry if anything I wrote gave that impression. If anything, the question of children is one of the reasons this all feels so urgent and painful, because it is connected to time, fertility, regret, and the fear that I have damaged her chances at the life she wanted.

As for your story, I’m so sorry to hear about what you’ve been through. It seems so overwhelming and almost unfathomable the amount of pain you’ve had to go through. Thank you for sharing your experience.

We are both in therapy individually, and have also done couples therapy. I don’t know what the outcome will be. But I’m trying to understand and make sense of all.

Thank you again for writing. I really appreciate the directness and the care.