What i am experiencing is going through therapy and taking regular anxiety meds helps with reacting. I no longer fuel the emotional arguments and since then I receive alot more blame and her emotions flip flopped like crazy. She started nit picking little screw ups to try and get under my skin is how I perceive it.

I have heard about many cases in which security cameras have saved men from dangerous women during the process of divorce. This is a well-documented example in which his wife clearly shows classic BPD symptoms:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WMvumzmdxAA

But what's the recommended approach to using cameras inside our home when you have a BPD wife?

Should we ask for an agreement and install the cameras gradually, one by one, making sure she is comfortable with them?

My wife has agreed, and I bought one camera some time ago, but I haven't installed it yet. I told her that it would be for her to see herself. That's true; I want her to get some self-insight from video feedback. But I am not sure if that will make her feel any regret.

I have already shown her some footage from my cell phone, and she didn't have anything to comment on about it. But she was specifically interested in one thing: her own facial expressions. I'm not sure what she was thinking, but I'm afraid that she was proud of being so angry? Because that would make sense since in her childhood she could not get angry at her narcissistic dad; she had to repress it.

Most of us here, even us divorced ones, never learned of a BPD diagnosis.  And frankly, if/when you divorce, the lawyers and court will mostly "studiously ignore" the obvious mental health issues.  Both parties are adults and so court deals with the litigants as adults, in a perfunctory and businesslike way.  Hence, you would be wise to do the same... deal with the facts and documentation.

My lawyer never responded to my belief that my ex might be exhibiting Borderline patterns of behavior.  On the other hand, when he was frustrated with my ex's antics - to phrase them nicely - her called her crazy and worse.  To a certain extent, he was right, it's not productive to pigeonhole someone with a label.  Let the lawyers to what you hired them to do, leave the mental health concerns with your counselor.

That you question, "Was I really doing what she claims?" shows that you're a reasonably normal person.  Most people with BPD traits (pwBPD) can't be consistently introspective and honest with themselves or others.

If the marriage really has failed, accept that when dealing with such mental health issues, you can't expect her to give you closure.  It is often remarked here that Closure is something you'll have to Gift Yourself.

When facing the daunting prospect of what to do, these analogies might be helpful to illustrate the objective realities we face.

The Bridge
The Backyard Black Hole
There's a Hole in My Sidewalk

So yes I’m currently in therapy. The best advice they have given me so far is that she had BPD and NPD traits. They have told me that I have tried through 2 marriages. I am currently separated and we are not living together. We had gone through marriage counseling which she did set up while together but it didn’t go that well because she didn’t follow the instructions given for example of us writing down our feelings instead of arguing. She’d threaten to cancel our sessions if I shared too much or mock me after for being a tattle tell or a little boy with no one to talk to.

Her therapist scared me that she has deep ingrained thought processes and that I should give myself a future.

I struggle because I am a person of faith and waited so long for her to come back in my life and her be so amazing for the past to return the 2nd day after our wedding day. I know I can’t continue the way things are. The abuse hot lines said she had physically, sexually, emotionally, verbally abused me through the years and I just couldn’t take any more. If there was a magic pill to make it work then I’d still take it.

Hello to all the brave souls here.

It's been a while since I have posted on this forum and I'd like to do a few things.  1st to all the non's - there is light at the end of the tunnel.  In my case the legal crap was completed in 2023, late 2023.  Had been hard NC since June of 2022 when she got arrested for DV.  Started with a protective order ( which she pushed on hard ) then because of that I went forward with filing for dissolution.  At the time of filing I had been with her for 25 years. No shared children thank goodness. Remained NC throughout. 
 
As I reconnected with family, friends, hobbies, the pieces started coming back together.  Figured out what inside drew me to her to begin with and have taken steps to correct those.  Not dating yet still have some self work to get completed first.  But that is ok.  I don't need external input any more for my own contentment.  No lie, the quiet is nice.  No drama, no word salads to decipher, the peace is kind of addictive.  I'm not always "happy" but I'm content and at peace. 

Then a couple of days ago got a phone call.  a 3rd party called to inform me that the former spouse had passed.  Which was .. mixed reaction on my part.  I say mixed because the situation that they described was tragic.  In hospital for some sort of infection, night shift nurse found the body on the floor during rounds.  Something about some heart issue.  Unknown if any other human had visited her that day outside hospital staff.  She was exceptional at pushing people away when she split.  Family, friends, didn't matter.  At the same time though, I was feeling freedom at the same time.  Part of the legal crap was spousal support towards her.  Something that at any time she could have gone back to the courts to demand more.  No lie knowing that the spousal support is going to stop is great!  Knowing that the option she had to go back to the courts ( which in my opinion was a kangaroo court anyway ) to demand more $$ from me is gone?  I hadn't realized that was something I had been carrying as a undifined threat vector since mid 2023.   

Now the blood pressure should start going the right way. 

I don't know about others who have had similar situations.  What I do know is that I already grieved all the what ifs, the should have / could have beens and my side of the relationship.  My side was 100% real.  Her side?  Have no clue.  Am I indifferent?  yes.  she was someone that i used to think i used to know

Hi there,

I'm sorry you had a traumatic childhood, but you seem to have healed for the most part, whereas your sister, probably not so much.  I actually think it was a good thing you missed her email, because by now you have seen that by not responding to the email at all, your sister eventually came around and pretended she never sent the email in the first place!  In my opinion, that's probably the best possible outcome for someone with untreated BPD.  You can go ahead and pretend that she never sent it either.

Now, you're still reeling from your sister's words, which were probably meant to hurt you in the moment.  It's very possible your sister was projecting her general discontent your way because other things in your sister's life weren't going the way she wanted.    The pwBPD in my life will do this often--send mean, accusatory texts to loved ones, bemoaning "abusive" and unsupportive behavior, often dredging up incidents from a vast repository of perceived wrongs.  The accusations do indeed seem "ridiculous," because her reasoning is highly distorted, and fact patterns don't align.  Notwendy calls this a pink elephant accusation, which is easier not to take to heart; another wise poster on these boards sees these accusations as cricket balls whizzing by.  My approach has been to treat these tirades as spam, because they are spam!  I try not to dignify them with a response; rather, I take them as a sign that the pwBPD is under a lot of stress.  With the passage of time, she'll pretend like she never sent those mean messages in the first place.

Eventually, weeks or months later, I typically find out what was really going on in the life of my pwBPD which sent her over the edge into a raging hate-fest.  Nine times out of ten, it was a bad decision or action on her part, like quitting something or getting fired, or getting kicked out of her rooming/friend group.  The other times, something didn't go as she wanted.  In other words, her pain and shame were so intense that she felt compelled to cast it outwards towards the people closest to her, even if they had nothing to do with the situation.  Ironically, the people closest to her are precicely the people who care for her most.  It's almost like she's trying to punish herself, to push away absolutely everyone in her life, a misguided, self-punishing coping mechanism disguised as a message-grenade.  I bet your sister feels so ashamed that she doesn't dare mention the email again, at least not to your face.

I guess it's no surprise to me either that your sister studied psychology.  The pwBPD in my life did the same thing.  Maybe it's a way to try to make sense of all their negative thinking patterns?  Maybe they are attracted to listenening to other people's problems, which fuels their unstable emotional life and self-image?  Maybe the study of neuroses makes them feel less alone?

Anyway, it's up to you to decide what level of contact with your sister works best for you.  Maybe avoiding holidays and vacations with her might be the way to go.  I find that pwBPD seem to fare worst during holidays, because their unrealistic expectations (for attention and fun) are never met.  Besides, seeing other joyful people can seem unbearable to a pwBPD, because it's a stark contrast to their general misery, and they seethe with jealousy.  The general stress of a vacation or holiday could simply be too much for them, because pwBPD need a LOT of downtime to manage their negative moods in my opinion.  I might suggest limited contact along the lines that you've already talked about--calling her when it's convenient for you, say once a week or twice a month.  That way, you have an implicit "schedule," and you can deal with her in small doses, when it's least disruptive to you.  If you would like more in-person contact, maybe you try to arrange for one-on-one time, such as a coffee or lunch out.  I find that the pwBPD in my life does better when we arrange for 100% of the attention to be focussed on her in small doses, if she decides to show up.  If she doesn't show up, then that's a sign that she's under stress, and she's giving herself a self-enforced "time out."  My approach is (i) not to take her absence personally and (ii) not to interrupt her time out.  Does that make sense?  That also means not making big plans which require her collaboration.  If she's a "spoiler," then try not to set up higher-stakes situations that she can spoil for YOU.

If you want to know what's bugging your sister, I think you try to read between the lines of her message(s).  One thing stands out to me--she feels "invisible."   That could mean she feels outshined by others, and that she feels inferior.  PwBPD tend to have a weak concept of self-identity and feel extremely insecure.  That could be why they she feels "abandoned" all the time, even when she is surrounded by family.  She may need constant reassurance, which starts to feel impossible to give.  Like you wrote, "How old are we?!?"  Anyway, if you understand what's bugging your sister, you might not take her accusations so personally.  After all, you can't control how she feels on a daily basis.  Only she can do that.

Anyway, I hope you don't feel horrible or guilty.  I know it's really hard to see a loved one struggle with BPD--you could be mourning the loss of a "normal" relationship.  But it's not your fault.  I'd say, you owe it to yourself and your family to enjoy this life you've created.  Please don't let your disordered sister ruin it by making you feel guilty.

Yes, take care of you. I think we forget and are hopeful that our pwBPD is doing better- because we want to. Then, when there's an incident that reminds us they still have BPD, it's disappointing.

I don't believe it's possible to have any control over their perception and feelings. We may not ever be "enough" for them but we can know we are enough.

Take care of yourself, self care helps.

Hi Friends1 and a warm

I hear the effort and strain and exhaustion in your post... It makes sense that you want to do the right and wise thing, yet that can be difficult to figure out. You've had some really positive times with your wife and some really negative times, and you're hearing a lot of advice and suggestions and trying to make sense of a path forward. Anyone would be feeling like this is hard and wondering "is there something wrong with me?" under your circumstances.

Here on the "Bettering A Relationship" board, we do remind members that it is a given that their partners are difficult, and suggestions like "just get away" or leave and don't look back" aren't constructive here. Many of us know, in our own ways, how un-simple BPD relationships can be. It takes patience, grounded ness, and being centered, to see our options clearly.

We also know that people stay in BPD relationships for any number of reasons, which could be financial, familial (kids), nostalgic, religious/spiritual, or deeply personal. We're here to walk with you, whatever you choose.

...

Your safety is important, too. Can you remind me, are you still seeing a counselor/therapist of your own?

I may have missed it -- are you and your W living separately at this time? If so, do you have any in person interaction (weekly meetups etc)? Is a professional refereeing your separation or are you two navigating it on your own?

I ask because you and your W didn't get here overnight. You've built patterns over many years that will take time to change. Getting a neutral third party professional can help bring an outside perspective to getting out of those ruts.

This won't be easy, and your safety is important in this process, and, it makes sense that you want to try to repair things.

Fill us in on more of your story, whenever you get the chance -- we'll be here.

Thanks for your support Not Wendy.  I am pretty sure she's over it, as we've had many positive interactions, visits, etc.,  since then and she hasn't mentioned anything.  I guess I was just reacting to the realization that she is still not well, even though she has reduced a lot of her bpd behaviours and has seemed much more settled in the past few years. I am tired of trying to make it up to her for what she perceives as me being the golden child. I can't fix it or change it now and I'm getting too old for this.

It's not that I feel bad for missing her email...it happens. And her accusations about not ever contacting her since the pandemic are ridiculous and untrue. It just still feels shocking to be on the receiving end of someone else's emotional reasoning...she believed it to be true because that was how she was feeling that day.  I guess I need to be aware of my own emotional reasoning...It felt like a crisis when I read the email, but actually it was not.  Maybe my reaction is a sign I need to focus on my own mental health...I've been neglecting all the self-care I've learned in therapy since December between work, Christmas and various family crises.

I went through a lot.  I eventually did see a counselor for help understanding if I was part of the problem and what way was up.  I didn't want to walk away from a marriage - as unhappy as I was, and as isolating and dysfunctional as it was - without someone validating that for me.  This was my own problem though; I was not confident in my judgment, and didn't stand up for myself at critical times.  I viewed standing up & being assertive as aggressive, and felt it was not proper or acceptable to do that, but I now see that you can and must stand up for yourself, without worrying about how people perceive it.  And you don't have to do it aggressively, and angrily.  You can point things out and remain calm.  If the other person escalates, well, then you evaluate you options and choose how to respond.

Of course manipulative people will portray all your actions in a bad light, (and their actions as impeccable and justified), which is why you have to be prepared to walk away. 

I recently saw some comments from a mathematician who was debating someone else, and pointed out how unprofessional and flawed their reasoning was, and then said "If I had a person in real life try to discuss something with me like this, I would just stop talking to them."

Unfortunately, it's that way with BPDers... there's no basic trust, and therefore no real communication with them.  Everything is seen and felt through their distorted world view, and warped by their own selfish interests.  There are really only two possible outcomes with them: 1) you accept their worldview as true and give in to all their demands, regardless of how you feel and think, or 2) you leave. 

With better boundaries and understanding, you can avoid these relationships in the first place, but alas, a lot of people don't have that, and don't gain it until they go through hell like this and have the sense to try to understand it and stand up for themselves.

This is good.  I hope to see more of this, along with a better understanding of these situations among religiously-based counselors. 

Like I said, I've read too many accounts here of people remaining in dysfunctional relationships because they view marriage as a sacred vow.  And in a sense it is, and should be.  But we enter into marriage with certain assumptions in place, namely that our spouse will treat us fairly and equally, and there will be mutual respect and trust.  When someone has a behavioral disorder though, this is not possible.

It's like buying a car because the seller tells you it's driveable.  Then you buy it and discover it doesn't have an engine.  They say "we have a contract, and you have to honor it.  and it is driveable, you just need to put an engine in first" and you say "Well... he's right.  I guess this is my obligation."  So it is in marriage to a BPDer.  You enter into it, and maybe you've seen some red flags, or maybe not, but they tell you all the problems that you encounter together are happening because of you, and if you just learn to treat them better, love them enough, or give them exactly what they want, things will improve.  And of course they don't.  Then they need more.  You're in a relationship with a bottomless pit, and nothing will ever be enough, because the problem is entirely in their head, and there's nothing you can do to fix it; it's up to them.