very good advice and observations in this thread from Wendy and Pete.

Adding my own experience with my uBPDw. When I heard her suggest "open relationship" for the first time I was in shock, and left wondering what went so wrong in our two decade plus marriage. The reason she gave for this suggestion was that she did not feel fulfilled and wanted freedom to explore. Little did I know that she had already crossed the monogamy boundary and was secretly having an affair when she said this.

So the "suggestion" was not really an "ask", rather it was her way of "hinting" to me that she is already acting in a manner of treating our relationship as open.

It took me several months to put this in context, as the affair was hidden for a long time. Anything important in our relationship has always been conveyed in "hints" never in direct talk.

Pete -

Yes, that is a very big point of caution.  I guess she has an RV as her “home, but the RV is broken and has no a/c. I don’t understand why a person with a regular well paying job would choose to not rent an apartment.  Where does her money go? W didn’t pry, but did mention something about her being married to a woman and getting divorced, and that divorce is expensive.  Again, a red flag here.  The striking thing is that if I had those qualities it would be a turn off for my W.  Considering the number of times she has shamed me for being a slob (I’m no worse than the average person, and definitely no worse than W), the number of times she complained about the size of our house, the number of times she complained about me not making enough money, I find this a little suspect.

Honestly, my gut is telling me no matter what the progression is here, it will end very badly and my goal is to protect me and the kids from damaging drama.

The reality is that - unless she gets into serious therapy and diligently seeks a measure of recovery, a very difficult task for her - then any reunion would just be restarting the same discord again.  Sadly, the past is a strong predictor of the future.

We all crave closure when a relationship has ended.  The typical pattern when dealing with BPD is that you can't get closure from the other.  Therefore, it is wise to Gift yourself Closure... and Move On.

As much as she requires therapy but likely will never seek it, we too can benefit from taking a close look at ourselves and determine how we can learn from and avoid similar failures.  Counseling is a valid way to get an objective perspective, sort of, looking inside from an outsider's unbiased view.

There's still part of me that wants to be with her, romanticizing the highs and fun times I had with her. Especially since her recent claims of peace, finding god, and being "better." But part of me knows with what she has done, probably will continue to do, there is no hope.

maxsterling ,

If your wife has no moral compass like PeteWitsend described, then that's big trouble. But hopefully she does have some?

If she were putting me in an uncomfortable position, I would perhaps play around with her by flipping the situation. First, I would pretend to be assuming to be gay and immediately "confess" that I had an online affair with another man. A few days later, I would ask her if it would be ok to meet this person. Just to see her reaction. I'm guessing she would say no and then would propose ending her own affair. But for this to work, you would need to do it very well. Perhaps really go into a gay dating site and really talk to another gay man, but of course tell them the truth. I believe they are likely to keep talking to you even knowing the truth. With that you would be able to show some part of that conversation to her. If my wife said yes, then I would actually go out and pretend to be doing stuff with someone else. That would give her some perspective on what she is doing with you.

I have used the same logic in the past, and I can say that it just works. It looks like revenge, but it's not. The goal is just to make them step into your shoes for a while.

For instance, in 2024, while I was asking my wife to leave, she entered a dating site and started to talk to other men. I think she was just doing it to provoke me and make me want her back, but it was unacceptable because she was still under my roof. We ended up reconciling, but I didn't leave that in the past because every time we talk about it, she becomes hostile and defensive. That tells me that her attitude will be the same next time it suits her. She defends herself, stating that she was not flirting but just trying to get the opinion of other men about my behavior. And until recently she still sustained a lie that one of the guys she was talking to was not from the internet and that he was gay.

So recently she asked to check my phone. She was leaving our house the next day, so I allowed it. Suddenly she struck upon the messages of a woman, and at a given point I noticed it was looking like an affair to her, because this woman was telling me where she was for me to meet her. So I quickly removed my phone from her hands and ended her checking, as if I was really having an affair. Her facial semblance immediately changed. She became desperate and confessed to her past lies. I only explained the situation to her the next day. That woman was an old woman from whom I bought popsicles for the kids (the cheap homemade ones). For a moment, she felt how bad it is when your partner has "secret conversations."

Yes, my BPD mother would say this too. "All families fight", as if what we saw going on at home was normal.

This behavior wasn't typical or normal.

Hi hiiumaa ,

The AI chatbots are very agreeable. So if they sense that you feel trapped, they will tend to validate that by stating that there is nothing you can do to make it work.

What I suggested is to copy-paste a long interaction. Just make sure that the AI can understand who's writing each sentence. Then ask the AI to evaluate your part of the interaction and if you did contribute to the conflict or not, and if you could have done better. Don't give it a background of the relationship because this will likely introduce bias in the AI's response, but you can briefly clarify the context in which the conversation happened.

Partners with BPD are experts in getting on our nerves. And when they succeed, even slightly, it becomes hard for us to notice our negativity slipping into our words. But according to the AI, I don't have to fake emotions. I can be cold and yet do a good job. Well, that's what the bot said... but can a human really do that? 

Hi SuperDaddy and Pook075,

I'm going to include both of you in this. I find this exchange very fascinating right now.

Even though you, Pook075, didn't quite answer SuperDaddy's question, the strategy you describe is a good one. I remember reading about it elsewhere.
However, I keep running into the problem with my partner that he sees ‘backing away’ as a total disaster and then freaks out even more. He can't recognise or accept (or both) that I'm doing this to protect myself, but sees it as not being loved/being abandoned. But he also doesn't see that communication is no longer possible in the current situation because of his outbursts.

How do your BPD family members react when you withdraw? Do they see it as abandonment? Can you describe this situation in detail when you withdraw?

For example, I announce it: ‘XY, I can see that you are very angry. Please calm down, otherwise I will withdraw until tomorrow morning for self-protection.’ But that leads to a total outburst of anger and, in most cases, a break in contact for a long time.

SuperDaddy, do you have any examples of this wording that Chat GPT didn't like? And did the AI give you any alternative suggestions?

I have already used Chat GPT to get suggestions on how to respond to certain text messages that I knew in advance would be VERY sensitive and lead to conflict if I wasn't extremely careful. But even with Chat GPT's help, it escalated every time. And I asked the AI to phrase it in a particularly validating, empathetic and clear way. I even told the AI the whole history of the relationship beforehand so that it was clear what a powder keg this relationship is. Nevertheless, it was not possible to avert the conflict.

However, the AI also repeatedly emphasises that, according to the description, my partner is particularly dependent on mirroring and control, especially when he feels hurt, ashamed or criticised, and that he simply cannot recognise withdrawal as self-protection on my part, but rather as a withdrawal of love or an attack. And that, unfortunately, he also cannot tolerate radical acceptance because he is practically incapable of integrating responsibility for his behaviour and ALWAYS has to shift it onto others (in this case, onto me). The AI always describes my partner's dysregulation as a ‘system error’ that I cannot fix.

Substance use disorder, stealing and TRO all relate to impulse control. Depression and suicide threats point to issues with emotional regulation.
Given your brother is keen on acting, improvisation workshops practice techniques to control impulse control and help with emotional regulation. Also research from the NHS suggests that group therapy has worked better (than CBT) with their BPD patients, so being around acting peers may help ?

Pete Davidson (USA/SNL) and Tommy Tiernan (Irish) both excelled at comedy improvisation and shared their BPD diagnosis. They both have humour routines explaining their mental health struggles e.g. here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYSolW3beKk

As a staff member you clearly must be doing your best, so be kind to yourself - you deserve it. 

That was very upsetting reading and you have our sympathies.  Certainly a lot of things which could fall under the criteria list for BPD there, if not also other mental illnesses.

Her dysfunctional upbringing is often a major contributing factor to developing BPD and from your writing we also see impulsivity, projection of her actions onto you, the 'want you / don't want you' phases, her huge insecurity and manipulation / guilt tripping using the threat of abortions. She doesn't seem to know who she is or what she wants. All recognisable criteria for BPD.

You've obviously gone through a very harrowing and confusing time whatever her illness is. One thing you don't say is whether you're now accepting it's over for good.. or do you still have some wanting to resume the relationship?

Best wishes