Notwendy and CC43,
Your feedback is very helpful and heartwarming. Thank you. We have had similar experiences in recognizing we are dealing with a disordered person and distanced ourselves if necessary and/or accepted that we have been cut off. What bothers me the most is we are more likely to be targeted by disordered people because of other previous disordered close relationships. With time, we have gotten better at seeing the red flags sooner.

I know that I listen to a person's problems way past what is healthy for either me or that person. Very few people except for her personal therapist if she had one would have listened to this woman for such a long time. There are several people I no longer interact with because of the one sided nature of our relationships: I listened to their monologues while there was little or no reciprocity, which is what I used to do with my mother with BPD. Perhaps you can give me some advice on how to end the one sided relationships sooner.

On my recent birthday, I got a text wishing me Happy Birthday from my disordered neighbor, the one I no longer speak to whom I described in a previous thread. The other neighbors cut her off a long time ago. I think this neighbor is trying to reconnect because I gave her the undivided attention that she craves. It really turned my stomach when I received her birthday card. She will never accept that I am a separate person from her, worthy of the kind of respect and kindness I showed her.

For years, I was uncomfortable making friends with people who did not share their problems with me. That has changed. I now have a few close good friends. I am now comfortable with safe people with healthy boundaries. For several years, I have been ending more quickly relationships that are one sided conversations in which I give my undivided attention to a disordered person. Still a work in progress.

I recently bought a book on how to make friends. I am lonely and need to learn more about how to make and keep friends.I do believe that it is the loneliness that makes me more likely to spend my time listening to the monologues of disordered people.  Most of my friends have their own families, and their priorities are to spend more time with their children and grandchildren. I do not have children.

My 26 year old step-daughter has BPD and possible schizoaffective disorder. We've been limited contact for several years and no contact for the past 2 years. She burned her family and friend bridges years ago. During her teen years, she bounced between her mother's and our house, depending on with whom she was least angry. The last time we spoke, she was desperate for a place to live because no one else would let her live with them. We told her that she could only live with us if we had a peaceful house, she agreed to not abuse drugs and alcohol while living with us, and she comply with her mental health treatment plan. After living with us for 3 months, we would expect her to add moving forward with engaging in adult responsibilities by doing 40 hours a week of self-supporting activities such as working on her college degree, working, volunteer work, and/or helping around the house. She told us that she wasn't going to "kiss your @sses for a place to live." We told her that was her choice.

We found her a living shelter for people with mental health challenges. They asked her to leave after 2 weeks because she was causing problems with the other residents. She lived in her car for a few weeks and then we were able to get her into another shelter. We don't really know what happened there but she was there for about a year. Then she ended up at her mother's parents' house, even though in the past she didn't like them. Living with them, she's been in and out of inpatient treatment. They have gotten to the point where they won't allow her to live with them either. We're not sure of what happened but she has a history of toxic behavior including hours daily of exploding at people if they will listen, and serious false accusations.

She's really intelligent, so in the past, when she went into treatment, when she started to improve a bit, she became really good at masking her challenges. The past few times have been different and the hospital took her to court and got her a 1 year commitment to a state psychiatric facility. Again, we don't know much about what's happening other than she doesn't want to go, she's been refusing meds, and she's on a behavior plan. She has gotten into contact with my husband through texts and calls. She desperately wants us to hire a lawyer for her so that she doesn't get committed. My husband told her no and that he believes that she needs the help. The third time she called about this and he said no again, she threatened to kill him and stomp all over his dead body. When he didn't respond in rage, she started to accuse him of r@ping her all of her life as a threat. She has made these types of accusations towards him, her brothers, me, and several boyfriends in the past, telling anyone who will listen. She has also told her aunt that everyone in her life has abused her.

I know that she's feeling ashamed, scared, desperate, and feeling deeply out of control. I know that her mental illness is deeply painful for her. I love her but I don't like her right now and I'm afraid of her. I hate that she's going to have to spend time in a state hospital. I'm pretty sure that she's lashing out because she feels trapped by the involuntary commitment, especially considering that no one will help her in challenging it.

My husband and I have both been documenting conversations with her. While she doesn't call me, I listen in on the calls as a witness. After the last accusation and threat, my husband hung up and won't return calls or texts. What else can we do to protect ourselves? How can (should) we know if she's safe to be around? The false accusations were one thing, but threats of harming us are different.

The reason not to isn't about not defending yourself. It's that it's a waste of your time and energy to do it. Also, in a way it validates it. If it's not true, then there isn't anything to defend.

Defense is necessary when it crosses the line to slander, affecting your work or other important aspect of your life. In this case one needs an attorney.

But the ones where you are falsely accused of nonsense- it's a waste of your time. I compare these arguments to peeing in the wind. It all comes back at you. They project it or dissociate.

An exercise that helped me to resist JADE is to substitute something absurd for the accusation, like calling you a pink elephant. If someone thinks you are a pink elephant, it's so far out there, it's beyond the need to defend it.

Be kind to yourself Zachira - sometimes we don't see it. My BPD mother could have long term friendships with people who had no idea, but then at some point, she'd turn on them, paint them black, they'd either disappear or she'd be done with them, and when she is done, she's done.

She had a neighbor who she was long term friends with. We were very grateful for that neighbor as the neighbor was closer to her than we are and could check on her if we had a concern. Then one day, something happened, I don't know what, and they were no longer friends.

It happened to me too. We had a long friendship with a couple. Then, the wife had a conflict with someone I know casually, and then cut off everyone connected to that person. We were all blocked, unfriended, and she has refused any social events involving everyone-even if that person isn't attending. I have seen the husband a few times on his own and someone asks about his wife, he offers an excuse for her. I know to not bring it up.

This affected me a lot, more than it affected the other people she discarded. To them, they've rationalized that this isn't something they want to deal with. For me, I grieved it. It was difficult. Then it dawned on me- this is the same dynamic I saw in my parents, where my father covered for my mother. I wasn't only reacting to beind discarded by this woman, it was similar to the dynamics with my parents.

I also reacted to the horror of the level of destruction. I didn't even do anything to this woman. My presumed "guilt" was associating with someone she had issues with- real or not. The selfishness of her decision- changing entire family friendships over this.

I didn't see this about her, not for years. I assumed all was "normal". So we may not see it at all, unless something happens and we do. Maybe others see it before we do but we do eventually. Once we see it, we see it. When you know, you know.

The reason to not JADE is basically to save yourself from an impossible endless argument.

You know your BPD partner is talking nonsense and accusing you of the absurd.

You know your truth.

JADE only exhausts you.  Eventually you learn to bite your tongue until you get a chance to walk away.  Any yes, usually happens in the car.  Almost every time.  Focus on the road signs until you are someplace safe and then go for a walk. 

I disagree with this statement & way of looking at it, because this implies that the burden & issue is with the non-disordered partner, and there's something the non-disordered partner could do to resolve the issue.  But there isn't; the issue is entirely within the mind of the disordered partner... whether it's BPD, or some other personality disorder, or some combination of both.

The "Black Hole" analogy is more apt; no matter what you do, the BPD-er will demand more, because it's not about getting any demand met, it's having you chase them.  Their deep-seated insecurity always needs more; they always need to see you pursuing them, because the second you're not, their fears of abandonment kick in. 

I experienced this first hand for years; BPDxw's demands were either impossible to fulfill, vague or contradictory.  Fights were not intended to actually resolve anything, but a means to create the constant attention she needed.  Indeed, during our last abortive attempt at marriage counseling, this issue was brought out when I presented some fairly objective demands to continue the marriage: stop fighting in front of kids and stop accusing me of infidelity.  When the counselor asked her what I could do in return, she said "he needs to love me enough."  When the counselor pointed out that was a subjective standard, and impossible to comply with, BPDxw started yelling at the counselor and refused to go back. 

Thanks Me. It’s great  to hear others have experienced the same nonsense. It’s like they have to find fault with almost everything. Criticise me and judge over the smallest thing then I’m the bastard because I deny or tell her I don’t want to talk about it as it’s not true …and I know where it’s going …to an ending that is once again going to put me down or force me to agree with her , then chucks a wobbly because I’m once again shutting her down. You can’t ever win an argument with them or point out their illogical accusations. I think I have been accused of almost everything …every adjective that’s for sure. Mine even accused me of driving my beloved wife to suicide ! And then refused to apologise and offered all this rationale as to how and why I did such a thing. Shame on me. For allowing things to continue after that.

As for the financial issue, we have made it clear to our daughter that we will only give money for specific reasons. In our case, we will pay for mental health support including co-pays and for education. We learned not to give her the money directly because she would lie to us and spend the money on other things. Instead we pay the university and mental health providers directly.

I know that you didn't ask this, but I do have a suggestion about your estate planning. You may want to consider setting up a special needs trust for your grandchild so that his needs are taken care of in the long run. I don't know anything about your daughter's financial situation but if she's anything like my daughter, I would be worried about the grandson's support as an adult especially after his mom is gone. My great nephew is on the ASD spectrum and won't likely be able to be fully independent as an adult. My sister, my niece, and I worked together to set up a special needs trust so that when he inherits money from us, it will be protected. Large inheritances can disqualify people from Social Security disability payments and Medicaid. If they inheritances go to a special needs trust, then it usually doesn't affect eligibility for disability support. It cost us $3000 to set up the trust with a family lawyer. We are also in the process of setting up a special needs trust in our will for our daughter so that she can get basic needs paid without having control over all the money.

It's worth noting the projection is likely tied to Haltlose Personality Disorder (the sister-ailment as it was titled more in Europe) which diagnostically includes the inability to hold a stable sense of one's self in a place or time (perennial turning over a new leaf, constant I used to be bad until today but now I'm changed)...if the sense of self is so fractured,they just repeat the complaints they know YOU make and put themselves in YOUR shoes...not entirely on-purpose, but just like an infant mimicking the adults they see.q

This is what to expect with these people. My ex was like that too. Always had to start an argument that usually blew up on the drive home and carried on for hours.

And yes, I JADE a lot. To me, it's a common sense way of arguing...you make a crazy accusation up and I just have to accept it? No way. And somehow they never feel safe around us at some point. I never understood that when she's the one who was physically violent. I never even got in her face when arguing.