Hi there,

Inventing a dramatic life story sounds like typical BPD to me.  It could be a bid for attention--YOUR attention--typically of the sympathic-pity sort.  In addition, your mom might crave drama, as she finds it stimulating, and she gets a reaction out of others.  She might be trying to develop a victim narrative--My real parent abandoned me, it's so unfair, poor me, no wonder I'm such a mess, it's THEIR FAULT!  But my guess is that saying her parent isn't her "real" parent is code for, "I never really bonded with my parent and I'm upset about that."  Is she talking about her mom?  Not bonding with the same-sex parent can feel especially traumatic.

I think my natural inclination in this situation would be to ignore the whole narrative.  But sometimes validation is recommended.  You might say something like, It would be disconcerting to feel your parent wasn't there for you, and then see where it goes.  If you're feeling charitable you might say, Well I'm glad you're my mom and I love you.

On another note, I have an elderly relative in my life who is a "dreamer" sort.  Since I lie on the opposite end of the spectrum (I'm a doer and more logical/less emotional thinker), I found myself being bothered by her "fantasies."  An example is when she'd talk about getting married again--in her mid-80s after being single for the last 50 years.  She talked about a wedding, honeymoon, etc. when she barely leaves her house, let alone date anyone.  It just sounds completely DELUSIONAL.  I found it was best for me not to engage in this sort of talk, because it would make me upset, talking about fantasies like that.  But she's going to do it anyway, because I think she likes living in a dream world.  Since I don't, I try to refrain from egging her on when I'm with her.

Maybe you're sending too much money. You could stop sending money altogether or cut 90% of it, then justify yourself by stating that sending money seems to be a problem for the relationship since it seems to be bringing problems to her (her sister and neighbor may be provoking her). And it brings a problem to the relationship as well since her accusations are making the relationship unfulfilling for you.

My personal view is that I would be extremely uncomfortable with a situation in which I send money. Unless I was really buying some service (which doesn't seem to be your case).

In a legitimate romantic relationship, I would only do it in specific situations, such as buying her a new cell phone after her phone broke and she began to talk to me from someone else's phone. Or perhaps if her place is too hot, I could buy her an air conditioner, which I would also make use of when being there with her. But she would have to pay the energy cost when she uses it without me.

I had a histrionic ex who was spectacular at sex and was willing to make any sacrifice for me, but one of the reasons why I gave up on her was that she was too materialistic, always interested in luxury. I felt like she lived an artificial life.

Horselover,

Thanks for your insights!

My nervous system can get back to normal very quickly. I think that helps because as soon as she stops yelling, she can notice my better mood and absorb it.

When I said all other drawers were in the same state, I was using logic indeed, but in my view she was not dysregulated yet. Though I realize she was being defensive already, using illogical arguments to defend her ego. So I get your point. I'll extract the parts that I agree with you on and add my own suggestion on how to approach the topics:

• Do not counter nonsense with logic, as it will make things worse. As soon as your BS detector is triggered, step back and let them know that you'll leave that for another moment.
• Do not question a behavior in real time, but instead wait for some time (perhaps even a couple of days) and then approach it in a positive way.
• Do not question a behavior directly, and instead talk about facts. Instead of saying that they burn and scratch the pans, describe how you love when your pans are preserved as new, because it helps both of you with the cooking. Instead of saying they shout at you on the phone and hang up, focus on the fact that you really liked when your phone conversations were pleasurable and ended up with kisses.
• When bringing up a delicate topic, first clarify your goal. If possible, describe it as a shared benefit, such as improving the relationship. Then describe the desired (ideal) situation and why it is important for you. Next, describe the undesired reality that you see and how you feel about it, while still avoiding pointing out their behavior. Finally, as an invitation to bring them into the conversation, ask them how they can help you with that. If it works, then they should get motivated to find out by themselves which behavior of theirs can be changed.
• Accept the fact that the relationship has limitations.

It was a challenge with my BPD mother too. She was resistant to therapy or even the consideration that she had BPD. She had also been treated with prescription medicines and was dependent on them-not only physically.  At one point, her doctor took her off them. Her anxiety and emotional distress were extreme. She got back on them.

I understand being powerless. It's natural to be concerned for your widowed elderly mother, and yet, not be able to do anything to help the situation. We kids were concerned about my BPD mother after my father passed away. She had been so dependent on him. Suicide threats were a concern too. However, we didn't live with her, we had our own families and jobs. We could not watch her all the time. So we decided if we had any concerns, if she made a threat, we'd call 911 emergency. That's the best anyone can do.

BPD mother also didn't allow us to have any imput or information about her finances or medical records. After Dad passed away, she redid her legal papers, wrote someone else in as POA. We had no idea how she was managing.

What we realized is that- we could not be proactive with her. She was doing well physically. As far as we knew, she had sufficient funds for her needs, but we didn't know any information about that. As long as she was legally competent, we could not do anything, even if we were concerned.

What I noticed with the delusional thinking was that, if there was something going on with her medically- the quality of it would change, but also stress could do that too. It was not possible to tell what was actually going on. There were the usual wild statements- her baseline- like saying a relative was on drugs (she wasn't) and saying someone was being abusive to her when they weren't. These were not without consequences as it did push people away but there's no controlling this. But sometimes she'd act as if she was confused, didn't know where she was, thinking she was somewhere else- and these times were when it was medicine or an infection, or dehydration.

Still, there was no way to control this, or intervene proactively. It could only be done in a crisis situation. It's also difficult for you due to expectations. People wonder why an elderly person is "left" to fend for themselves - where are the adult children. Also for the adult children who are concerned but have no ability to intervene, as well as who also need boundaries on abusive behavior.

Around this time, I also saw what "normal" is. My inlaws were getting older. They sat down with their adult kids, gave them all the information needed, expressed their wishes, made them POA. They had their moments too-of frustration, anger, the "normal" for this situation. With BPD- there may be similar circumstances but with BPD influencing the behavior.

This is an emotional situation. It's important for you to take care of your own emotional well being. Prepare yourself for what to do if needed. I did consult an elder law attorney and social services to learn the rules, and resources. It helped to know what they were, even if I couldn't do anything.

How much we could be involved was determined by BPD mother. At one point, she rewrote her legal papers, made her kids POA. But even with the POA, BPD mother remained self directed, and made her own decisions.

If your mother won't establish someone as POA, there may be a point where someone has to legally step in. It can be you, or someone else. Being POA is voluntary.

Without any ability to be proactive, have a cooperative relationship, all we could do was keep a watch on her, determine what we were willing to do if needed and if she allowed us to.

Hi Both, thank you for taking the time to reply to me, my brother went to her home again yesterday expecting a war with her after she was paranoid about him on Sunday but she was nice as pie!  She still has it in for my aunt though. It can change on a sixpence as to who she is angry with! The problem we have is that she is generally good physically and mentally for her age and would go beserk at the suggestion of extra care or POAs. The additional issue that we have either her is that for many decades the medical profession have just treated her mental health issues as something that needs Diazepams and Lorazepams and essentially they created an addict! She can't function without these tablets and she does claim to overuse them if she's gone into a bad place. So whether they impact this distorted thinking that she gets about people and the things her head tells her they've done.
It's like another obsession she has at the minute is she is always trying to invent a dramatic life story for herself and keeps trying to claim that one of her parents wasn't her parent but we both did ancestry DNA tests and it was bang on the button that my grandparents are my genuine grandparents and her parents! Yet she is ignoring that.
I think we'll be destined to be putting up with her moods and thoughts that change at the flick of the switch until she eventually dies  I think! She doesn't want to help herself or be helped - I get that winter months are dismal and hard on her but her refusal to go out and to anything, get involved in anything or socialise isn't helping her. The other hard thing of course is the frequent suicide threats when she is unhappy and not knowing she'll eventually do it!

Hi Pook075,
I understand that it is better to keep all or most info on the boards.
My GF keeps arguing about her perception that I am talking to those other women that are the last people I would ever talk to even if GF wasn't in my life. I have already drawn my boundaries but she keeps crossing them so I guess I will just have to walk away from the relationship. Her accusations (not just suspicions) are so blatant and angry and sometimes all she wants to talk are those accusations and it gets to be really exhausting.
I send her money every two weeks, but sometimes I will send more in the interim for medicine.
Can you share with me what websites have you used and is there is one that seems to attract better ladies?
Thank you.

I find that my husband (also currently living apart) has very little bandwidth for these kinds of conversations. So I very carefully pick which ones I want to have. This obviously can make me feel pent up, as I need to keep many of my needs to myself and not discuss them, but the reality is that he is just not going to handle it well if I bring up a lot of "issues".

Basically, I try to pick whatever topics are MOST important to me, and then, when calm, not in the moment, I mention it to him in the most unemotional way possible and with very little elaboration. For example, "I would appreciate it if you leave the kids' clothing in their drawers the way I put it there. Thanks" (I would not say this as she is messing the clothing, but after the fact, a day or two later). I used to elaborate a lot on my requests and needs, and sometimes cry when very upset, and learned that these did not work at all, as he gets triggered and starts yelling at me and dissociating. Also, if he does respond poorly to any request, as when your wife started to become defensive or swear, I immediately disengage and close the conversation (hang up the phone, leave the room etc). And I do not ever try to use logic when he is becoming irritated (ie "you are trying to justify it, you know that all the drawers are becoming like that"). I am a very logical person, so it used to be my "go to", but now I know that logic is one of the worst strategies I can use for someone who is essentially completely illogical when dysregulated.

I am obviously not perfect, and do slip up sometimes and try to talk about things that are not in the "most important" category or say my needs in an emotional way, but usually it backfires. I am pretty consistent about disengaging when he gets elevated, and that has made my nervous system a lot calmer, as I could not handle engaging with his outbursts anymore.

I also have had to accept that the relationship is simply not a "normal" one where the couple can safely share their needs and feelings and come to a nice, shared compromise. This doesn't mean I accept abuse, because that is something I have a pretty hard limit on (ie I do not tolerate bad language, insults etc and won't engage at all), but it does mean that I have had to come to terms with the fact that if I want to stay in this relationship, it has some natural limitations on what I can express and what I can expect from him.

I agree with this perspective, however it is of course fraught with tense emotions in your distressing situation.  I learned that lesson when I was a religious volunteer in NYC for many years.  I admit, though, my experience then was with strangers, not close relatives nor disordered ones.

Let me add an example...

This is what happens with my wife when she is in my place (we are living apart). Yesterday, since she was about to leave, I took the risk of making a brief comment while she was rolling over the kids' clothes in the drawer:

Me—Hey, my love, I don't quite like when the dresses of the kids are all messed up in the drawer, you know?
Her—Those didn't fit on her anymore. (becomes defensive)
Me—You are trying to justify it, but you know that all drawers have become like that.
Her—I didn't have to justify myself for you, because you are not my master or anything. Blah blah blah... (talking nonsense very loud, almost screaming, and nonstop)
Me—I don't have to hear your screams like that in my home, my own place. (while preparing to leave her sight)
Her—YOU SAY THAT TO HURT ME, YOU BASTARD! (switching now the topic to the "my home" phrase, which she didn't want me to use)

A minute later, while I am far from her, she prepares her stuff to leave but gives me an order:

Her—Give some fruits to your son!
Me—Are you giving me an order?
Her—YES!
Me—So screw you! (but I was going to prepare the fruits anyway)
Her—SCREW YOU !! Your **** ! #$...

As I fed our son with sweet melon, I brought a piece for her. I had to insist, but since she appreciates when I care for her, she began to cool off and accepted it. As I noticed the opportunity I brought, I gave her a hug and kiss. Finally, she is back to normal.

But nothing was resolved. And I think she ends up feeling like she was abused, and not the contrary.

Every couple in the world who lives together ends up having some type of conflict around the usage of the space or the things. Even more tension can arise when they disagree about the education/caretaking of kids. It's normal for sparks to fire at the heat of the moment. However, in a mentally healthy couple, those problems should not become chronic or too overwhelming. At some point when both parties are calm, one of them should try a better approach, disarming the other partner and allowing negotiation to happen. Then, when both are interested in talking with care and willing to understand the other point of view, it should be easy to compromise.

However, with a BPD partner, even by approaching them with planned steps and the best intentions, if it is a sensible topic, we are likely to fail badly. Because the topic may make them feel criticized and then trigger a very aggressive attitude in them.

For instance, my wife has very bad habits in regard to the organization of stuff and doing things impulsively, which ruins any kind of organization that I try to do in the house. I think this might be part of ADHD, but I feel like I can't touch those topics without triggering her.

Should I just wait for treatments to take effect before talking about it and, meanwhile, just use radical acceptance (accept the mess and keep quiet about it)?

Is this the kind of stuff for couples therapy?

Or is it possible to talk it out without triggering them?

Please share your experiences.