To put it another way, leaning on the murder/ manslaughter analogy: the intentionality that I perceive uBPDx having, is much more on the 'manslaughter' side of things than 'murder'. But regardless, I need to stay away if I don't want to end up dead.

(I don't mean to treat the analogy in a flippant way - I think it does illustrate something - but apologies if it comes across like that).

PeteWitsend, as I have read, BPD was so named because it exists on the borderline between psychosis and neurosis, with psychosis being completely factually distorted perceptions of reality (eg., seeing or hearing things that are not there) and neurosis being intense emotional states causing distress (but not fully losing touch with reality).

It is clear uBPDx is not in full psychosis. He is able to lie and to withhold information to obtain a desired result, i.e., hiding his cheating. He is also highly intelligent and articulate in certain professional settings. At times, he has appeared to feel extreme shame for his actions, which means he is aware of them. In that sense, he is responsible.

Yet I think there is also a distortion of reality that is not quite the same as pure calculated lying. For one thing, the lies aren't very strategic - lies to do with cheating, money and other things that are externally verifiable, or bound to be found out over time. They are reactive, desperate and somewhat stupid.

In the legal system and various philosophical systems there is a spectrum of intentionality, from things you did when you were of sound mind and had considered clearly and in advance, to things you did voluntarily but on the spur of the moment, to things you did involuntarily or under compulsion. That's why there's a difference between murder and manslaughter (and lots of other classifications to do with pre-meditation).

From what I can tell, uBPDx 'acts out' when he is in an emotional state that seems overwhelming or unbearable to him at the time. Whether it's cheating because he wants validation, misappropriating money because he has no self control (yeah, that's something that's come out) - his acts are despicable but I think not planned in advance with the absolute maximum level of intentionality. Otherwise surely he'd plan it better and say things that are less ridiculous. (When not dysregulated, he is a highly intelligent person).

Then, instead of facing the consequences of his actions, he panics and lies to make the bad impact go away, even though he must know it will blow back on him later.

Maybe a better comparison than schizophrenia is something like alcoholism. uBPDx's addiction is to validation because there is a gaping hole inside himself. Like many alcoholics, he 'drinks' (lies, cheats, manipulates) because in the moment, he cannot stop. When you talk about him lying 'compulsively' I think you're seeing the same dynamic. Then he tries to cover it up, and it gets worse.

The vile behaviours I'm describing in this post here come largely from the end of the relationship, but the emotional manipulations from earlier in the relationship I think also fit the same pattern.

So, he's distressed (and I still believe much of his suicidal ideation reflected genuine distress). He needs an emotional 'fix' from me, therefore, he manipulates me with suicidal words and threats (neurosis) so that I give him the emotional reaction he wants. It's voluntary in the sense that he exists in reality and knows what he is doing - he's not talking to poles or trees in the street. It's involuntary in that, like an addict, he really feels like he cannot live without the emotional fix that I provide.

This seems like both sickness and intention to me, but if you see this as full intention and don't like the word 'unwell', that's also valid.

You are better off without her.


She told elaborate lies about something really serious (the death of a friend) and even faked pictures. This was not a person living in a stable reality. There was nothing you could have done to build a strong relationship on these shaky premises.

That your ex has married and appears to have a stable marriage - in contrast to your own known experience with her - that's a signal that you don't really know how stable their relationship truly is.

On the one hand, he may be just as clueless about her mental health issues as you had been back when you had met her.  That's likely because he believed her claim that you were stalking her.  (People with BPD traits typically describe all their prior relationships as awful and even claim they were victimized.)

On the other hand he might have his own issues, whether codependency and gullibility, or might have his own serious issues that somehow mesh with your ex and may last longer than you'd expect, given your own experience.

Whichever the case, count your blessings that the discord and dysfunction is in the past.  Meanwhile, do Gift yourself time to recover... avoid too-quick rebound relationships... figure out your own Closure (gift it to yourself) and let that settle and resonate for a bit first.

There is a possibility that your comfort zone in selecting a partner may be skewed, perhaps shaped by your childhood FOO (family of origin).  Now that you are more aware of deeply-impacting PDs and how serious mental health issues can be, you can take a look at yourself and choose your future relationships with open eyes and better perception and perspective.

There is no magical 'switch the illness off' for BPD.. even if we all wished there had been.  I have no doubt her husband is now seeing things very differently and wondering what he's gotten himself into.

He'll have had the usual 'my last partner didn't treat me right' spiel from her but he'll have found out by now that its her who is the problem.

Try and concentrate on yourself and see the long term; you were in a no-win situation, as we all once were. Hard to do I know but it helps to think that her life will never change; she's stuck in a repeating, self-destructive cycle and will most likely always be in conflict with whoever she's with.

Snailshell, I'm sorry you're having these feelings.


From what you describe here, you haven't been 'stupid with your life'. You've pursued things of value which interest you, like music. You've cared for those who needed care. Some would say this is more important than ticking boxes like marriage or homeownership.

It's a cliche that comparisons are odious, but, comparisons are odious. Your ex's relative wealth and stable lifestyle is not a comment on your choices, it is the result of her inheriting money from her parents. There is an entire structure of advertising that exists to tell us that 'having more stuff' makes us better, superior people. We all know this, and yet we are susceptible.

Your ex's new relationship is also not a comment on you and it is unlikely to be as ideal as it may be portrayed on social media. People do not change very easily - you probably know this from trying to break cycles in your own life. It is even harder for someone with a disorder like BPD. If you went back a year ago, you would see my uBPDx living an exciting new life in a new and vibrant city with his new partner (me). Fast forward to now, and that relationship has been destroyed by his cheating, lying and instability - just as his last live-in relationship in a different city, was. It's not better. It's just a different part of the cycle.


The world doesn't run on reward and punishment. It runs on cause and effect. Your ex will not be 'punished' for her abusive behaviour towards you in the sense that there will be no validating authority that comes and says, Yes, she was wrong and you were right. But there will be consequences, because everything has consequences. You are not in control of these for her, only for you.

You have been trying to make good decisions. You will see the results of that, but that's different from saying 'I'm a nice person, therefore the universe will reward me'. There is a skill to being good, and part of that includes identifying disordered people like your ex and how to behave around them, and also identifying chaos or disorder that arise in your own mind (for example, when you think about your ex) and acting skillfully with regards to that.

Act skillfully, authentically and according to your values and try not to compare yourself to her (but also, don't berate yourself if you do - we don't have perfect minds). It will be OK.

Two things:

1) you don't know what things are really like behind the scenes.  there's almost no chance she's different with this guy, and you have no idea how miserable they might be together.

2) don't get too hung up on things look now.  life is not a movie; there aren't endings (at least until you're dead).  They might seem happy and like they're "winning" but things are going to change. 

I just found this out.

It feels kinda sad to be hung up on it - it happened about two years ago now, the end of that relationship.

I guess that's a mature, appropriate time to wait before marrying someone too.
Though I was told that they were engaged very soon after we broke up (a few months maximum).

The thing I find hard about it, is the fact that I know what I saw.

I was there when she threatened to 'beat the sh*t out of me' - although to be fair... maybe that was just a figure of speech... I don't know...

I was there when she drove me off in her car to an abandoned gas station and midnight and yelled at me, trying to make me apologise after I made a joke (genuinely - there's nothing that I'm hiding there).

I was there when she pushed all sorts of my boundaries.

Over the course of 350 days, we sent about 30,200 texts (WhatsApp told me when I delete the messages) - I think that's about 80 a day, or something?

When I finally blocked her after some pushing and pulling, her new guy called me up, accused me of stalking and harassment and told me that he'd grab me by the throat if he ever saw me around the city.

So I guess I'm just wondering... how come I'm still trying to get my life together, and how come they're married now?

It's hard to swallow...

I haven't been stupid with my life on purpose.

I was a child carer, I had a passion for music so pursued that... I didn't have freedom from caring until my very late twenties and then we were more or less straight into the Covid pandemic.

I've spent a few years retraining and trying to have fun; but still feeling like I'm not where I want to be.

She trained in something employable and has been living alone in a family 'second home' in a vibrant city. It just feels like a way more stable set up than mine.

But... I don't think I'm a worse person... or that I did something wrong on purpose... I've been trying to make mature and good decisions; it's just that life is really hard sometimes.

And then... things have all come together for her.

Even after how she was to me...

Yeah, I had a brother in law that went the same route you did and watching it unfold, it literally made me sick to my stomach.  His kids were around 6 and 10 when they split up, and now they're like 17 and 21.  He missed years with them because of the back and forth, the constant trips back to court, and his ex hell-bent on destroying him.  Our whole family didn't see those kids for 7+ years and it ate at everyone.  It devastated the dad though because those kids were his world.

I just couldn't do that so from the very start, I was going to "win my wife back" whether we stayed married or not.  At first, I took a lot of abuse for my efforts, but in time I think everyone around my ex kind of said, "Why are you treating him that way?  He's gone above and beyond to stand by you."  I really don't know how things clicked for her, I'm just glad they did.

You're right, it may not last forever, but she's remarried now and I think that's actually helped more than it hurt.  I doubt she thinks about me much anymore except when there's a kid problem or a birthday we'll both be at.  Our kids are grown too though so that makes it a lot easier.

I just hope that if the beast re-emerges, all that wrath is pointed at her current husband.  She's already getting depressed again and taking long naps often (which was the pattern that spelled the beginning of the end of our relationship).  I wish her the best, but a part of me knows that the wheels will eventually fall off the bus and it's going to crash spectacularly.

I'm curious- have you confronted him directly about this kind of stuff?  Not in a combative way, but purely to ask why he gets so focused on your timelines when he's not even home.  I had that in my former marriage as well and it frustrated me all the time.  If I was late getting home, the phone would be ringing and texts would be appearing. 

Yet if she was out late, I was supposed to assume it was for a perfectly good reason and not bother her.  If I asked, I was being controlling.  If I didn't ask, then I didn't care about her.  It was a game that was impossible to win, and of course I didn't realize I was playing the BPD game to begin with.

Your husband does sound like he has several BPD traits.  That doesn't make it BPD like you said, but I sometimes feel like there's a spectrum there that has some tendencies but not enough for a diagnosis.  My ex's brothers and several other relatives, for example, could be BPD/NPD as well, but they're nowhere near as obvious as my kid.