My BPD mother had access to my father's email. She was able to read anything I sent to him or he sent to me. I couldn't tell sometimes if what he was saying to me was what he wanted to say or what she wanted him to say. This is why I question this email and also it doesn't sound like a 13 year old would write like this.

I understand the concern about your son's behavior. Having been raised by a BPD mother, I think there's going to be some effect. I don't have BPD but I did learn some behaviors from my mother that I worked on changing later.

I also learned some co-dependent behaviors from my father that I had to work on too. It only makes sense as these are what kids see their parents do and it can be a normal in the family.

There were also emotional consequences. I think they are unavoidable. I worked on them as an adult through my own therapy.

I think at age 13, it's difficult to know if your son's behaviors are learned ones, emotional responses to what he experiences with his mother, teen age hormones and mood shifts, or actual BPD.

There were times I worried my teens might have BPD but they were being moody teen agers. If a part of BPD is emotional immaturity, it would make sense that teens act like this also at times. The difference is that teens will grow out of it.

One thing that happens is that as teens become adults, as they mature and differentiate, the relationship becomes more challenging to the pwBPD who may not have the emotional maturity to handle this. There's also parentification going on, and the teen may be expected to be an emotional caretaker. That your son is intelligent is in his favor but it also promotes the parentification. The chances he gets to act like a kid may be when he's not with his mother.

The best intervention I can think of is time away from his mother if at all possible and to be around stable adults. For us, this experience was staying with my father's family during some school breaks. My parents stayed together. For your son, maybe it could be some one on one time with you, if you can get more custody time or even trips with Dad to something he'd enjoy. If you have extended family so he can experience other stable adults, hang out with same age cousins. Just time away from mom where he can feel emotionally safe and be a kid. He will need counseling too. Both helped us kids.

Yes, these terms, wife, mother, husband, dad- have associated meanings. One thinks of a mother and also a wife as loving and supportive. For a Dad- a protector, reliable. When the person in these positions doesn't fit the meaning of the title, I think not using it is a way to emotionally guard oneself and also to not give them the title when it doesn't fit.

In my mind the word "abuse" implies a repetitive pattern... whether it's abusing a substance like alcohol, or abusing another person.  A single instance of some sort of negative or hostile behavior toward another is a fight.  It could be a one-and-done event, for whatever reason: to establish dominance, to blow off steam, to right a wrong, to deter someone from doing something, or to steal something. 

He's had a bad day and he snaps at you when you say you're tired and don't want to get dinner out.  Is that abuse?  Maybe not.  It's not great, but in an otherwise good relationship, it's forgivable.  But if it becomes a pattern, then it's abuse. 

Abusive conduct toward another, as I see it, is to condition them to accepting a certain role in a relationship between people. 

I do think the word itself can get overused - or abused if you will - but it has a very real definition, and it happens.

And "abuse" would indicate a need to take corrective action whereas "poor behavior" may not be considered to need a strong countermeasure.

Related to this, we often mention that the "acting out" personality disorder traits (Cluster B ... Narcissistic, Borderline, Antisocial, Histrionic) are generally harmful to others while some of the other PD have traits are "acting-in" which tend to be more toward self-harm.

I refer to my ex as an ex-spouse, almost never as ex-wife.  By the time we separated and divorced, that inclination had been shocked out of my system.

I'm honestly not sure, apparently it was sent while on a 2-hour drive with his Mom (other kids in the backseat confirm) but he wasn't upset or arguing or crying or anything...which is odd if he were really writing that kind of email I'd expect some level of rage or biting back angry tears...but they report he was totally fine...which raises the chances it's a pre-written email that his mother just hit "send" on when she got out to pump gas or something. It's also a brand new email account for him, not his regular one at all - making it more odd...is he hiding it from Mom, or is she hiding it from him?

He does struggle with either BPD symptoms, or possibly just mirroring BPD stunts he's seen performed by his mother so many times- it's not healthful by any metric - so I'm still concerned, even if this might be his mother's hand on the keyboard.

Hi there,

Abuse might be traditionally thought as physical, but it can be emotional as well.  Take the situation of someone beating their spouse, for example if the spouse stayed out "too long" running errands or waved hello to a neighbor of the opposite sex.  A beating in that scenario would be considered abusive.  But let's say that instead of a physical beating, it's a verbal one:  shouting, insults, false accusations (e.g. of having an affair), threats (e.g. of divorce), a total meltdown.  The spouse might feel that they are subject to a curfew or house arrest, because going out without "permission," or saying hello to another human being, leads to a verbal onslaught.  The "rules" apply only to the abused party, whereby the disordered spouse exerts inordinate control, while the disordered spouse is free to do whatever he pleases.  The verbal attacks are abusive because they are unwarranted, not proportional to the situation, mean, bullying, intimidating and designed to control, alienate and restrict freedoms.  The mere threat of retribution might be enough to bend the abused person's will, and maybe they start to question history and their very identity.

At the end of the day, emotional abuse can be extremely alienating, in the sense that you're not only alienated from family and friends, but also alienated from your true self . . . disconnected from your own emotions, needs and identity, leading to chronic stress and living in survival mode.  Does that sound about right?

*a way of identifying that the harms are very serious

The other week, a friend I had confided in at length about my experience with uBPDx told me there would be steps forward and back as I recovered, and that 'this is normal in getting over an abusive relationship'.

I didn't necessarily see the relationship as abusive (though certain acts within it, were), but I didn't challenge friend's terminology since the dynamic seemed accurate.

Yesterday, I was chatting to another friend and said something like, it's funny that person used the word 'abuse' although obviously it wasn't. Other friend gave me this look of like, 'are you crazy?' and asked how I could possibly say that after having written out and described the series of events in such detail to them.

I have some complicated feelings about this. One is to wonder whether I've misrepresented or exaggerated in some way. But with both these friends, I've been very careful to set out the facts in detail and at length, including my own misdeeds and mistakes. So I don't think their assessment is due to my 'putting a finger on the scale', so to speak.

A belief I have is that the word 'abuse' should be used carefully and precisely lest it obscure more than it clarify. My own definition involves the repeated use of a pre-existing power dynamic to do harm, and/or actions which both harm another person and entrench power over them, thus creating a power dynamic.

For example, according to my own definition, uBPDx cheating on me was a toxic, harmful act, but it was not abusive. However, belittling and insulting me for being upset about it afterwards, was. To harm someone and then denigrate them for reacting is abusive, as it reduces their ability to identify and protect themselves from harmful acts in future.

I'm curious as to what people think the significance of designating a relationship as 'abusive', is. Is it a moral thing - the harms that came to me were not my fault? I believe this - however, this can also be true for relationships that are not abusive.

Is it a causal thing - there was nothing I could have done to avoid the harm? I think this is incorrect. There was nothing I could have done to save the relationship, but I think there were, in fact, many things I could have done to avoid harm.

Does it imply something about the obligations of other people around me and uBPDx?

Does it imply some kind of judgement about uBPDx?

Is it useful primarily as a descriptive term, or as something almost quantitative - a way of identifying that the harms are ?

What do you think?

This is very interesting- thanks PearlsBefore.

Tell-Hill I also love MJ's music and have been looking forward to the movie. It's interesting that you also picked up on him calling his father by his first name. I did too. I asked my H (who did not have an abusive parent) about that and he didn't notice that. That was interesting too. It wasn't a shared experience for him.

I also referred to my BPD mother by her first name. I didn't do this to her face- she would have felt insulted and disrespected, but when referring to her, I did not call her "Mom". In a way, it seemed difficult for me, emotionally, to call her that. It wasn't disrespect. It was a way of emotionally protecting myself.

The movie did address Joe's abuse. Likely they didn't show the whole of it. Still, it was enough for me to feel an emotional response to it. I think a movie like Jules and Jim would be very difficult to sit through. In this one, Joe was not a focus and it was still hard to watch the scenes with him in them.

What also came through was the complexity of the relationship. Joe had a vision for his boys and it was through this vision and discipline that they rose from poverty. It did benefit the boys but Joe took it too far.

I will add that my BPD mother didn't beat me or use a belt like Joe did. She was different, but I think a common effect is that a child doesn't feel emotionally safe with a parent who has inconsistent behavior.

Jaafar Jackson did a superb job in the role. While many people can impersonate MJ, they can not bring the emotion of being his nephew into the role. How he did this was truly moving. It was not just an acting job to him.