Thanks that all makes sense and means a lot.

And you are right about the holidays, the guy she is with is narcissistic and couldn’t care less about her job and books holidays all the time. This hasn’t turned out well for her.

You always try to see her point of view and calm her - narcissists don't do that.

You show remorse even when you're not the one causing the conflict - narcissists don't do that.

You offer to let her choose holidays to suit her working schedule - narcissists definitely wouldn't do that; they'd put themselves first and to hell with anyone else.

Yes, you're right to say that we can all be narcissistic sometimes when absolutely required - we're only human - but that's a long way away from being a 100% 24/7 narcissist. Try to remember that she is the one with the problem and you're just doing your best to cope with it.. and doing a good job too.

My ex used to often mention a song that she wanted played at her funeral.

She also ‘joked’ about a month before she monkey branched to the guy she is with about poisoning me to my face…. Does that count

With regards to the ‘be careful what you wish for’ comments I’ve just put up a post about narcissism. In it I mention my ex’s constant frustration with me not booking holidays. She is now constantly going abroad with the guy she is with. She has since got skin cancer twice. I was told yesterday that the last op she had has not been successful ……. so yes definitely be careful what you wish for.

I was working at a clients house yesterday that used to be one of my ex’s clients. My SIL cleans for the lady and she started a conversation with me asking if I’d spoken to my ex lately. I told her I don’t see her and try not to have anything to do with her. She told me that SIL had asked why she had stopped coming into the salon and the client had replied to her that she could no longer handle the toxic atmosphere in the salon.

Now, a little while ago my ex had brought this lady up in a text conversation calling her rude expletive names. I asked her what she had done to her and she replied…well nothing.
The penny dropped and I realised yesterday that my SIL had obviously relayed the reason why she had stopped coming into the salon, so my ex’s outburst must have been in response to some sort of narcissistic injury.

As the conversation progressed with the client she asked me the question if I ever pondered if I was narcissistic as her own relationship had made her question the same.

I don’t think I am, I mean to the point of being a full blown narcissist. I think we all at times display narcissistic traits, I think sometimes perhaps we have to for our own survival, but it does raise the question. I would always want people to be straight with me, want to learn from my mistakes, and certainly be told if I’m being or acting in a narcissistic way.

I have been reading about DARVO which does make me question my own behaviour. My wife would regularly go on the attack about something, There would be regular periods of quiet before the storm, when everything used to seem fine then we would go to bed and in the early hours the attack on my character would start. I would try to answer her, give reasons why I would do, or not do certain things that she would bring up that was troubling her. Quite often it would be reasons that meant I would have to bring up her behaviour and reactions to things as to why I did or didn’t do something because of the way I had to constantly walk on eggshells around her. This would often result in my ex telling me not to be so defensive and that it isn’t an attack on me, although at the time it certainly seemed like it.

To give an example, as it was an often recurring one, she would ask me why I never made the effort to book a holiday. I would then reply in the following way. I don’t like to book a holiday because you have clients booked in for months in advance and you get stressed leaving the salon with someone else in charge. I also don’t like to ask people to look after the dogs and the children while we go away because they are our responsibility. I am also not that confident with that sort of thing. I’m happy to go away whenever you want to but it’s easier if you book it because I’ve no control over your work schedule or when your employees are there or not to look after the salon.

Just to add, my ex is a control freak and would always get stressed when we went away because her employees would constantly be on the phone to her about something. But I am also aware that this is in the realms of DARVO.

But the bigger thing that is making me question my reality is what happened 20 years ago. I’d caught her out going to meet her best friends at the time husband. They had split up and one day I was cleaning the car out and came across fuel receipts and car park tickets that didn’t add up, and when cross referencing them with messages that had been sent between us did not correspond with where she said she was at the time. So one night I checked her phone and found messages between her and her friends husband arranging meeting ‘At the usual place’
I confronted her and she denied anything happening, that they had just been meeting to talk about his marriage breakdown (anyone that has read my story will see the pattern here)
However, she did then start crying and admitted to sleeping with a completely different person. We split up for a few months.
We then got back together but to be honest my ex didn’t show the greatest amount of remorse, tried to dismiss it as meaningless and pretty much wanted me to bury it under the carpet and move on.

It ate away at me inside. I questioned a lot of things in our relationship, even down to whether our youngest son was mine or not. I had got quite close to someone during this time that listened to and could see what she had put me through and this developed into an emotional relationship that was starting to get out of hand and I could feel myself spiralling out of control.
My ex picked up on it, asked me outright  if something was going on, to which I denied up to the point when I could no longer handle feeling the way I did and explained everything to her, that I was developing feelings for someone but didn’t want to, that I wanted to sort my head  and our relationship out and get over it.

The thing is whenever my ex felt disregulated, or had some sort of problem, this event would be brought up with any conflict, over a decade later. I would tell her at that time I wasn’t in a good place mentally and I’m sorry it happened. I would tell her that it had taught me a lot, it had taught me that we all make mistakes. My remorse was never enough for her and would just end in a circular argument until I would retaliate by telling her that her actions had a domino effect and one thing led to another because of what she had done. This is where I question my reality as I am aware it is DARVO. I know that I initially denied it, I know that I flipped the script on her and told her if she hadn’t done what she had done it wouldn’t have happened and I know my actions were wrong, but I also know if she hadn’t acted in the way she had throughout our relationship it probably wouldn't have led to me being messed up and seeking external support.

Nothing physical ever happened, we never actually met up secretly or anything like that, just discussions on our feelings, but it does make me wonder if my actions and the way I handled it and defended myself make me a narcissist.

Thank you for your response.

I am currently under a police FVIO, so I am not allowed to contact my ex-wife or my children at all. My ex-wife has also blocked me on all social media and every form of communication.

Despite 10 years of repeated suicidal threats and her BPD diagnosis, her family either does not know about this history or chooses to ignore it. Instead, they have framed me as a domestic violence perpetrator, while my ex-wife has hidden behind the title of a poor victim.

My biggest concern is whether my children will be able to grow up safely and well under the care of a mother with BPD. Her family lives in another state, far away from where I am, which makes it even more difficult for me to see my children.

It is deeply shocking to me that the woman I lived with for 10 years could suddenly damage my reputation so severely, completely cut off all contact, and disappear from my life in this way.

I now believe that reconciliation is not something I should pursue. My ex-wife showed no genuine willingness to seek treatment for her BPD over the past 10 years, and now she also carries the title of a family violence victim. For my own safety, I believe it would not be wise for me to reunite with her.

My question is - what is motivating you to consider this?

Is it guilt? Being afraid of losing her without contact? Hoping for an improved relationship? Other drivers? There are so many different personal reasons to consider restablishing contact, but I believe it's important to explore your own reasons before you make the move.

Do you live close to your mom?  That is another big thing to think about if reconsidering establishing contact.

My uBPD mother passed away 5 months ago at age 89.  I was an only daughter living in the same small town.  My life changed when my dad passed away 21 years ago.  I didn't realize it but my mother had groomed me from childhood to be her caretaker.  I gladly took on the role because I strove to please my mom (impossible), and also to be a good daughter (also impossible because her expectations of a good daughter were impossible to achieve but I was about 57 before I realized that).  About 8 years ago, I sought intensive support for myself because my mom had grown to be so toxic.  I had a steep learning curve for learning how to navigate her dysfunction.  As hard as the journey was, the one thing I did not have to deal with was her triangulating me with other siblings because there was no other sibling. For that I am thankful.  That is another whole level of problem.

What I can tell you is that the challenges of having a BPD mother amplify as they age.  Add in declining physical abilities, cognitive abilities, loss of social skills, increases in their stress as they encounter more challenges and inabilities to cope with activities of daily living, which includes new levels of decline in decision making, and more demands and expectations from you to take care of ALL their needs.  My mother used to scream at me that I didn't love her if I wasn't able to meet some unreasonable demand.  I lived about 5 min away.  She texted and emailed all the time.  At times I had to resort to blocking her.  There were short term temporary NC's. Like I say, it worsened as she aged. Toooooo many stories.

Like NW, I chose to maintain contact for my own reasons, but it was limited, and my husband became my filter and human shield. I was lucky to have him.  Many don't. In the last few years, she was emotionally abusive to him as well.  That was the worst.  We had to resort to establishing such extraordinary and difficult boundaries, involve medical supports, social workers...I could go on.

I was very active on the board for about 6 years.  This community was a lifeline for me.  Over that time, maybe there were stories about reunifications that had some success?  But that is not the memory I am left with.  Overwhelmingly I remember members posting about how nothing had changed when they went back to contact, be it regular or low. Then they had to go NC again.  Maybe there was a honeymoon period, but then old patterns became the norm again, and the chaos returned. Maybe it was worth it for them to try again?  I don't know. Maybe I am biased by my own experience, but I don't have a memory of reading about many successes with this.  But maybe that is not the point.  Maybe the point is about trying, if there is some personal value driving you to consider this.

When I joined the forum back in around 2018, I was able to read stories that went back years.  You can probably still do this and read them for yourself, since your question is about the experience of others who have gone back to some level of contact.  You can tell a lot about the content of a thread from the subject line, if that is something you want to consider doing and have the time.  There is a lot to be learned from reading other stories. For me, it was helpful to go back in time and find applicable threads to read for myself.  I was able to go back about 10 years back then.

I would never advise to re-establish contact or not to.  That is way too personal and depends on the personalities involved, your own values, and of course the history, as well as what your reasons are for considering this.  In some ways it comes down to risk/reward.  You are the best person to understand what the risks are for you.  Sometimes I think when we have been away from it for a while, it is possible to minimize or even forget, and then we feel some pull to re-establish connection - because as humans - connection is what we crave. I just wanted to share my story that the behaviors can become more intense and complicated as they age, and become more desperate as they become less able to cope.

I would ask yourself: "has she done any work on herself that leads you to believe anything would be different than it was in the past?"

"Why am I thinking about doing this?  What is driving me to consider this?"

"Is there some value driving me to consider this?  Am I doing it for me or for her"?

"Am I prepared for any outcome (be it good or bad) in the short term and the long term?"

"Do I have personal resources to support me as things evolve, if I need them?"

As awful as my experience was (contact with her), and as much as I feel like humpty dumpty, I can still honestly say that for me I took the path I did to have contact because I did it for myself. I can say I tried, and did my best. To her I was nothing but a disappointment and a failure, and I didn't love her. That isn't true.  I loved her dearly.  But in some relationships, sadly loving the person hurts deeply.

Lots to consider. 

Most of us, myself included, have no memories from such a young age.  That's why they're considered unreliable and and a person can even construct false memories.  Combine that with mental health issues and that's a potent mix.

He's an adult and to a certain extent is responsible for his own welfare.  Legally, it's his choice whether he will accept your help, regardless of how sincerely you promised your mother.  You have tried over the years, so don't guilt yourself overmuch.

Welcome to BPD Family.  It's sad that this conflict happened... and you're not even married yet.  We have a truism often quoted here:  The past is likely to predict the future.  In other words, regardless of how much you love her, what you've experienced - including the serious legal issues with the police and court already involved - she is likely to repeat that and even worse if the relationship continues... if things don't turn around soon.

Is she in meaningful and serious therapy for her disorder and behaviors?  And not just long-term therapy sessions but also diligent efforts to improve her perceptions, emotions and overall behavior?  A hard lesson we've learned is that hoping and dreaming for the future will likely end in eventual failure.  What really counts is determined effort and hard work, not promises.

A common report is that people with BPD traits (pwBPD) have extremes of negative traits such as Denial, Blaming, Blame Shifting and more.  So they often sabotage themselves by avoiding meaningful therapy.

You're in the middle of a difficult relationship.  You too can benefit with therapy so you have have a balanced view of the issues and behavior patterns.  Best to get started on this before you get married.

We hope your choices and decisions now during this distressing time result in a positive future.

I am in desperate need of advice and guidance and help with situation if possible. Recently myself and my fiance who has BPD have been arguing quite a bit. A few days ago she left me and had police remove me from our house we share with her 2yo daughter. That day she had blocked me on absolutely everything and deleted everything involving us. The next day I had tried reaching out and she had police tell me not to contact her. The next day when I was to retrieve my property from our residence with a constable I was advised thst she had filed a pfa on me with no reason given. While at residence to get property I had tge constable ask her if I could talk to her before pfa was picked up and given she agreed. We had talked about financial stuff and I expressed my love for her and wishes of her dropping pfa. At one point during this she had went to her car near where I was standing and I had asked her, "Do you still love me?" She explained that yes she does she never stopped loving me. She agreed that we could discuss everything at the courthouse in 2weeks when hearing for full pfa would be placed or dismissed. We exchanged a hug and I love you back to each other. Im questioning if she will truly come back in 2weeks at hearing and we can be ok and fix us. Recent weeks of fighting have been almost like she was a different person. Mean, violent, uncaring. Im willing to weather those days for the loving and affectionate fiancé. Since the day the pfa was filed she has sent me $1 cashapp requests everyday. Im.unsure if that is a way for her to reach out. I would rather she just upfront and text me. I truly want her back. I love her even the BPD parts. Will she come back?

Hi all,

My younger brother has always struggled with mental health and diagnosed with bpd, anxiety, eating disorder etc.  He has worked really hard at seeing therapists and taking their advice and putting himself first in the last 15 years- we were very hopeful for a recovery. He was a little weird I would say at times but was functioning. Then he stopped taking his meds, our mom died suddenly and then everything changed. (This is the second time he has gone no contact after an outburts and scapegoating episode).

About 6 months ago he started making excuses to attend events and other family things but kept in contact.  About 3 months ago he sent his immediate family a text saying he was taking care of himself and would reach out when able. We texted him maybe once a month, if that -to try and keep touch, no reply.

Last Friday he sent a facebook message to an aunt, a cousin and a cousins wife (that we know of)- saying that he was molested when he was 2-3 years old, his email went into great detail about a pair of pants he was wearing and stopped short of saying who did it or what really happened. He also said he would be walking away is getting support and won't acknowledge any of us if he sees us in public.

The thing is, we all have asked him when he was in therapy and on meds if that had happened when we were trying to wrap our heads around helping him.  He always answered no, I have a supportive family and always have.

I don't believe he was molested, no one does- except him.  According to his email, he contacted the police, lawyers and they all said to move on with his life. The whole situation is just sad for everyone.

We as a family are respecting his wish for no contact (he is 42 years old) knowing that he isnt capable of holding a job or paying for himself.  My dad gave my sister and brother and I a considerable amount of money in Feb, my dad left it in his mailbox.  He cashed the cheque a week before he sent the email. My dad is 80 years old.

I feel guilty, I had promised my mom I would take care of him before she died.  I don't know how she would react to this. 

I'm not sure if we just respect his no contact wish, I dont know what else we can do at this point.

Thanks for listening.