Hi CC43 ,

Thanks for sharing your experience with boundaries. But again you confirm the same situation that was described by mitochondrium. Your story also indicates that the threat of calling the police is precisely what has put a limit on his behavior. If it wasn't for the police threat, I'm pretty sure they would have brought the door down or done something even more frightening.

Each time another step is done in the direction of abuse, a new limit is set, so then every new escalation will tend to hit that new limit. In other words, once your husband pushes you and nothing happens, he will tend to push you again often in future outbursts. But the threat of calling police is very real, and they know it works easily for women, so the threat alone already forces them to figure out some way of controlling themselves, if they can.

Unfortunately, like I explained earlier, using police is not an option for me. But if I could, I would not hesitate in calling the police to remove her from our house. I would even request a restraining order, just to make sure she didn't return.

Hi Rowdy ,

I think you got confused by what I said. Recognizing that you are the victim of the situation does not mean feeling victimized. It just means to acknowledge that the other person was very unfair or abused you when you didn't deserve it. It's important to recognize the abuse so that you don't put yourself in the same situation again.

The fact that they are victims of the disorder is independent from the fact that you are a victim of their behavior. And you should not attribute your ex's behavior to the disorder. Most people with BPD are abusive in some way, but not all. And definitely there is not a single type of abuse that all abusers do. Each abuser chooses their own abusive behaviors.

If you suffered, and during your pain you felt trapped in a victim mindset, that's another story. This is a complex process that involves many other aspects of your mind. Coming to terms with the past and leaving it behind is okay, but you should do that with the understanding of the violation they made.

"Betrayal is widely considered a violation of human dignity. It is an act that can make a person feel dehumanized and humiliated, fundamentally challenging their self-worth and sense of safety in the world."


If you are emotionally mature and self-sufficient, you should be able to turn down your interest for the person who has been cruel to your heart, betraying you and hurting your feelings badly. That doesn't mean to turn your love off like a light switch, but it does mean to move on and gradually forget about them (over many months or a few years). So yes, it does mean to eventually love off your ex-partner, especially after you stop having contact with them.

Usually when things go bad in a relationship and it gets damaged over many years, by the time the couple splits, they don't love each other anymore. Happened to me twice.

I have a different opinion. It's my understanding that the best outcomes occur when you can keep a child home, and residential should be a last resort. If you live in an area where theres a major hospital with a PHP or IOP, I'd try that before sending my daughter away as long as you are confident that the acute medical issues have been resolved.

I decided to go low contact out of necessity. Tonight I sent her an email and I described my concerns in a very non confrontational way. I told her I loved her, validated that I know she needs me etc. I described how painful it's been to continually be verbally abused and I also expressed that I was hoping she'd get into a DBT program and do the work this time. Shortly thereafter, I was sent a long text spam packed with nothing but vile things about how she wishes me dead and calling me outrageous profanities. She did exactly what I described to her as being a major problem that needed to change. I really have no choice but to let the dust settle and not attempt to engage with her again until she reaches back out and acts like nothing has happened. At this point she's moved out of her apartment and in with the bf. I gave her a decent car, I'm paying for her cosmetology program, and I send her $120 a week. I'm not cutting that off but I also will not increase it or participate in any planning for the baby unless she and her bf get around to approaching me about this pregnancy together, and collectively state their intention to have the baby and coparent in his home. Is that too much to expect? They were already gearing up to formally move her in before the pregnancy happened, but honestly, I didn't see any signs that he was "in love" with my daughter, and I know that she was the one who pushed the relationship. It's what she does. I have no idea how he really even feels about her or what expectations if any he has when it comes to her or anyone else bringing additional money into the household now that a baby is on the way or when it arrives. Aren't these things that anyone in my position would want to know and expect would be "transparent"? Or am I overstepping?

It is not surprising to hear that an ex with Borderline traits has quickly moved on to a new relationship.  Possibly it involves a pattern called "object constancy" which, to some extent, could be compared to "out of sight, out of mind".  (Object constancy was a phrase used in my Custody Evaluator's recommendation report, though he never once named a specific mental health dysfunction.)

A reasonably normal person would not be so quick.  We would need some time for closure, to assess what had happened and adjust (recover) to the new life situation.  That also is why we advise our members to give ourselves time to recover, regain our equilibrium and resist jumping into "rebound" relationships.

Your distress that he didn't consider your feelings by jumping so quickly to another is understandable... and also predictable.  Logic and reasoning you try would typically fail.  Your ex's thinking is prone to lean more toward self-oriented perceptions and thinking, not normalcy such as empathy or compassion.  Over on our Tool & Skills Workshops board we have a topic that discusses why our attempts at JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) so easily fail.

Due to the often-intractable nature of BPD, unless there are children that require continuing contact for parenting communication, many have had to go LC/MC (low contact, medium chill) or even NC (no contact).  There are variable circumstances - including the extent of the BPD traits - that impact such decisions but generally we have to Gift ourselves Closure.

I have to say, I'm with Pook on the futile argument boundary.

Sometimes my spouse will argue with me by shouting and spouting obscenities.  I know when he's riled up, he just won't listen to anything I have to say.  Any attempt to JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain) only angers him even more.  When he's like this, it's typically from a place of insecurity--he feels I'm not paying enough attention to him, I spend "too much time" with friends while "excluding" him, I've upstaged him in some way--even if the facts don't align with that interpretation.  He'll literally turn red, shout at near fire-alarm decibel levels and get in my face (or call me repeatedly on the phone).  My boundary is not to engage when he's like this.  I basically give him an "adult time out" until he calms down.  I'll drift out of the room if we're at home.  Yes he'll typically follow me, but then I'll drift out again, maybe with a little excuse (I have to use the bathroom).  If he's shouting at me through the bathroom door, I'll emerge and say, I need some fresh air.  Then I'll go outside for a walk, or possibly take a drive if it's late or if the weather is horrible.  Sometimes I go to the library, sometimes to a scenic parking lot.  He hasn't dared to rip the car keys out of my hand, but if he did, I'd probably say, I'm not staying here just to be yelled at, I've heard enough, and I'm not under house arrest, am I?  If he were physical or he started trashing the house, I'd call the police.  Usually he'll slam a door a couple of times (opening it and slamming it shut again for emphasis), but actually, that's not such a bad outcome because he'll isolate in a room for a while, and the shouting will stop.  Then he'll typically put himself to bed early, in protest.  Usually by morning he's still hurt, but he's not flying off the handle anymore.  Then I can try to reassure him and explain:  I know you're upset (that I visited with a friend), but I choose to be with you every day.  I don't visit with friends that often, and not as often as you do.  I support you and your interests, and I expect the same from you.

While it's true it's easier to escape when there are no young children in the house, if I had to, I'd just take the kids with me.  I'd make something up--we're getting ice cream, we're going for a walk, we're going to the library, we're getting the car washed--anything to give my spouse the time and space he needs to calm down.  If I had an important work meeting and I were working from home, I'd likely take the computer to the public library, or perhaps sit in my car, park somewhere convenient and use my phone's hotspot.  I think I did that at one point, when the tension in the household became unbearable.  It gave my spouse some space, and I got some space too, while being able to get some work done.  Finally, sometimes the shouting and swearing will happen when we're travelling in a car together.  There's no easy escape in that situation.  What I've done is the gray rock technique:  sit as still and quiet as a gray rock, and don't engage.  If he takes a break from the shouting tirade to demand a word out of me, I'll say, There's nothing I can say to make it better, is there?  And then I'll go back to being a gray rock.  If he continues to pester me, I'll say, I'm not discussing this while you're driving, you're upset and could get in an accident.  I'll listen when we get to the destination.  And back to the gray rock routine.

OK,

First off, your kid is getting good grades and is generally well behaved, in spite of BPD and learning differences.  That is remarkable considering the circumstances.  But making suicide attempts is very serious.

You might approach finding an intensive therapy program as you would selecting a college:  finding an institution with a strong reputation and a solid track record is important, but at the end of the day, your kid will get out of it what she puts into it.  Just like college, if she doesn't do the work, it's basically worthless--it might even be worse than worthless, because of the huge costs in time and money involved.  Just like college, the programs available might hinge on the financial assistance provided (e.g. insurance coverage vs. tuition assistance/scholarships).  Just like college, staying close to home might be important to your family, and long-distance travel might not be ideal or even economical.  Just like college, your daughter might not be admitted right away, because there is competition for the most coveted slots.  Maybe she can wait for one to open up, or maybe it's better to get treatment sooner at an institution that has availability.

Most of all, for therapy to work, your daughter has to be the one to want to do the work, because therapy IS work.  She needs to feel "ready" to embrace a change.  If she's spending all her time blaming you, she's probably not ready.  If she thinks you're making her do intensive therapy against her will, it probably won't work.  And if she's using therapy as an escape from other life obligations, it's probably not ideal either, especially if the provider is like a "resort."  But if she feels like she's exhausted all other options, and she really wants professional help to have a chance to feel better, then it might be transformative for her.  In addition, follow-up is key.  There's no magic pill for BPD.  Changing one's mindset and behavioral response to stress/perceived threats is tough, and it takes time as well as lots and lots of practice.

On the plus side, your daughter is young, she might really benefit and have more mental plasticity.

Having said all that, anxiety and depression are distinct from, but often comorbid with, BPD.  When you write your daughter has had no other issues, it makes me wonder if she really has BPD.  Has she been diagnosed?  Typically pwBPD have a host of issues, like severe moodiness, misplaced anger, a pattern of fractured relationships, unstable identity/self-image, distress intolerance, a victim mindset, constant blaming of others, intrusive negative thinking patterns, impulsivity, strongly avoidant behaviors and difficulties functioning day-to-day (problems completing schoolwork/keeping a job/solving everyday problems).  Many of these issues seem like typical "teen" behavior, but in a full-grown adult they seem more noticeable and dysfunctional.

Im glad Im not alone in this and I appreciate all of the advice from everyone

But I can't understand how you still love your ex wife after she did that to you. If you were attached to her and she had an affair, then she ruined your heart. Don't you agree that the greatest victim of this is you, not her?


That’s completely the wrong mindset to have. Having gone through similar experience as Pook, same length of marriage, adultery at least twice. You have spent so much of your life with that person you can’t just turn your love off like a light switch. Not if you genuinely loved and cared for them in the first place. There would be something wrong with you if you could.
But it is unhelpful if you live with that victim mindset. I lived it long enough, until I finally realised that I’m not the victim. I now see my wife as the victim of her own behaviour. She has to live with it, the thoughts that rule her, she always struggles with sleep because in her own words she could never switch her brain off, constantly arguing with herself in her own head. I also know how she has treated her current boyfriend, so in a way I kind of see him as her new victim. For me, getting rid of that victim feeling is like releasing the shackles that hold you back.

Hi Pook075 ,

It must take a lot of courage to tell your story.

But I can't understand how you still love your ex wife after she did that to you. If you were attached to her and she had an affair, then she ruined your heart. Don't you agree that the greatest victim of this is you, not her?

I even think that you may be unaware of the real cause of what happened with your ex. You said, "My marriage ended because my ex wife stopped talking", but it seems like she had a good reason to stop talking. Have you ever thought that, perhaps, only perhaps, she was already having an affair and that's why she got distant and quiet?

Also, have you noticed that in your family she would feel like a bad and insufficient mother for your older kid, while in her new family she feels like an appropriate and essential mother? Wouldn't you think that this was unconsciously her end goal, to feel worthy?

But then why would she praise you on your birthday and then devalue you so much when leaving you one month later? Because she couldn't get in compass with her own decision of leaving you. She could not handle the shame that she would feel if she admitted to herself that she was being unfair with you. So her interpreter module twisted her thought to create a completely different narrative that would fit her decision of leaving.

Watch this video, and you'll understand what I mean with the "interpreter module" after watching this video about the split-brain surgery and how it affects the concept of "free-will": https://youtu.be/_TYuTid9a6k

Anyway, you don't seem to indicate that your ex-wife was too difficult. Did she ever get physically aggressive? Did she create nonsense out of thin air just to bring drama? Did she scream at the top of her voice for a long period? Did she persecute you through the house or harass you in your workplace? Did she break stuff in the house? Did she provoke you by talking about other men? Those are the typical unmanageable behaviors.

Finally, do you think you were able to use tools, compassion, and boundaries to keep things under control and make the relationship manageable for you for the time it lasted?