Remember that you're responsible for you and she's responsible for her.  That means you should be there for her when you can, but you also have to draw a line in the sand.  If it's good for her, okay, try to help whenever you can.  But not at the expense of your own mental health.  If you're being screamed at, walk away...and try to do so graciously. (I'm sorry, I can't have this conversation right now, it's too much).  But if that's not possible, then just walk away.

If it's abuse through calls/texts/emails, turn your phone off or temporarily block them.  That sounds harsh, but it's actually teaching right from wrong and showing that some things are out of bounds in your life.  Again, I have to remind myself so often that the BPDs in my life are sick...they're not attacking me as much as they're venting their own mental struggles.  It's rarely meant to be personal and so often, they wish that they could take it back afterwards.

For example, you mentioned her going through your phone and trying to find "proof" of you cheating.  That didn't happen in the moment, there was likely something that made her feel insecure and the thoughts had been building for some time.  Maybe hours, maybe days even.  And while her mind tried to rationalize things, her thoughts became more and more emotional.  Before you know it, logic went out the window and it's 100% fear and paranoia taking over.  The "emotional hammer" has struck and you have no idea there's even anything wrong.

Catch this- when BPDs are disordered, they're thinking emotionally and logic is all but shut off.  Anything they say or do is based on their feelings in the moment.  If you argue with them at that time, their feelings take that as rejection and things only get worse.  Never, ever ever defend or argue at this time...either listen patiently or walk away.  Once the BPD calms down, logic returns and a real conversation is possible.

Your job, when you can if the situation lets you, is to help her shift her mindset from an emotional/disordered state to calm and logical.  Because when she's disordered, the words she's saying might have nothing to do with what's actually wrong, she just wants to rant and complain and let all of those emotions out.

For example, whenever my ex got upset she'd go back to the argument, "You've always hated my parents!  You've never wanted anything to do with them!"  (Notice the always/never language, that's black and white thinking in absolutes, a great sign for realizing it's "splitting" from disordered thinking).  And every time, I'd take the bait and tell her how I loved her parents, took them on vacation with us all the time, did things for them, etc.  The argument would rage on and on for hours because I wanted her to realize that she was wrong...but that's futile when she's thinking that way.  She literally can't accept it right then.

Instead, I should have done one of two things. 

One, I could have shown her empathy and calmly asked why she brought that up.  Maybe she's yelling but I'm speaking calmly in a low voice.  I'm showing real concern on my face because my goal is not to win an argument, it's to calm her down because I'm concerned about her.  When I took this approach, the "argument" lasted minutes and it was over.  Because I held my cool and was receptive to her needs, the moment passed and her mind regulated.

Two, if tactic #1 failed or I lost my patience, I should have made a short statement like, "I love you and I don't want to argue.  I'm leaving and I'll call you later."  Everything in that statement is about me to avoid casting blame...I'm not judging or arguing, and I'm making my intentions clear.  Then I have to follow through and actually walk away.

Remember, you're responsible for you.  She's responsible for her.  By taking one of those two paths in every tense situation, you're helping her and you're doing what's best for your mental health as well.  Never fight fire with fire, everything burns in that situation.  And if things get too intense for a time, take a break and limit communication for a few days.  Make it about you and healthy boundaries...I can't do this right now for my mental health.  She will respect it or she won't.

What you're saying makes sense, and I thank you.
I understand it very well, and I also believe it's a way of acting that should be done with every partner, even those who don't have a BPD, actually. It's just taken to a very extreme level with those who have a BPD, right?

What I'm trying to say is that it seems like a bit of a one-sided view of the story, and the risk of getting dragged down is real. Often, this kind of reasoning leads us to give up on ourselves to satisfy the enormous need for attention that pwBPDs have, while what I read is that it's really important to maintain one's personal integrity. 

If a BPD person vents their "hammer on the finger" by insulting me, trying to ruin my relationships with people, undermining my personal freedom or the like, even if I understand that it is the mental illness speaking, I understand the reasons, I understand the difficulty, I still have to hold my ground... I can't change who I am because we would risk going from one sick partner to two sick partners over time.

I understand BPD very well, I love a BPD person, but I want to understand how not to forget about myself.

My partner is part of the low spectrum of the disease: she works successfully, has friends, has no substances abuse, does not have eating disorders or self-harming tendencies and above all she admits that she is not able to control her emotions as much as "ordinary people" (if they exist)

I would like to understand how not to lose myself, how not to sacrifice myself for an illness that I understand but it is not mine, if there is hope with therapy for example

It’s been a long road in a while since I have posted. I’ve now had a domestic violence, protective order in place against my soon to be ex-wife since December.  The only manner in which she can contact me is through a designated email.

The clarity and calm I’ve gotten in the stability and focus. I’ve been able to give my kids has been great.

This one last issue that I want to confront. Her emails are supposed to be limited to details about the kids, just factual. But they aren’t something will come up and she will decide that she needs to frame up her perspective on the issue by describing negative feelings about me, negative conduct imputed to me negative characteristics imputed to me and so on. All of which I’ve heard hundreds of times and responded to in numerous different ways. And don’t get me wrong. Some of her complaints are legitimate. But emails about the kids that could’ve been 100 to 300 words end up being 2000 to 4000 words. 

I’ve asked her to stop doing it. She’s been court. Ordered to stop doing it. For the most part to take the advice that I scan to take what I need and ignore the rest. I compartmentalize much better than I used to. But somewhere inside me, there was still that part of me that response to the tension building of the emails mounting and the increasingly tense language about how I am ignoring and not responding.

So I want it to stop. and I could make it stop by forwarding some emails to my attorney who would send them to her attorney.

Something inside me has me hesitating. I don’t actually wanna do it. Part of me wonders if I don’t really actually wanna cut ties because I’m still in love with the fantasy that was that relationship and this is the final goodbye. Don’t get me wrong. I am not getting back into this relationship. I just find myself wistfully missing my own ignorance. Another part of me wonders if I just feel guilty like this is all the way down to just emails. Why can’t I just do this for her? I suppose I still feel a sense of obligation and guilt. She is still suffering and texted these emails and her suffering is about me and my contact and isn’t there some way that I could answer or respond that would make her feel better? I realize that is delusional.

In a way I’m just putting this out there almost like a journal entry knowing that I need to cut her off because from a standpoint of my own health, I just need it to stop and I have to power to make it stop. The emails have on occasion ruined my day or ruined my mood, and I have found myself snapping at others after these interactions, including my kids.

I have also gotten some very great wisdom and some great framing from this board in the past and maybe lightning will strike again and somebody will frame this up in a way that will help me see this all through.

Thanks in advance for reading and any commenting or help or support.

Thank you all for your replies and insights.

Pook075, I have a few follow up thoughts and questions.

I guess that in regard to my kids, one thing I really struggle with is feeling like I need to shield them from my husband. I know he says he loves them, and he acts really sweet and caring with them when not dysregulated, but the bottom line is that this isn't how I define love. Love means being there for someone, being unselfish, being reliable. So he can send them all the postcards in the world saying "I love you" and "I miss you", but I find it shocking that he is their dad and did not ask to see them for 4 months! I feel like I need to protect my kids from this kind of love, which is more like a transient feeling of attachment or warmth than real parental love.

I'm not saying my perspective is "right" and I understand that my husband has a serious mental illness, but that's how it feels on my end. And if I am honest, that's how his love feels for me. Like he has a warmth or attachment for me, but there is nothing there in terms of the true meaning of love. So while I feel like I can "handle it" (obviously I find it very sad, even though I can accept that this is the reality),  I just feel so terrible for my kids that this is who their father is. I'm also very worried that he is going to ruin them somehow by constantly appearing and disappearing in their lives, so then I think maybe it would just be better if he didn't see them at all.

If I do proceed with a visit (and I most likely will, despite my feelings), as I can understand why there are also benefits to having a relationship with one's father, even if very imperfect, I hear your concerns (and Forever Dad) about having a planned visit scheduled. But then how do I go about this if we can't schedule it? I am totally out of touch with my husband at this point - I haven't talked to him in 4 months, as all communication, if you can call it that, has been through him sending me and the kids physical letters and me leaving him a couple voicemails about things that needed to be taken care of.   

Now, about your suggestion for de-escalating things before I need to leave or hang up, I have never been able to do this. I really commend you for figuring out how to accomplish this with your ex and daughter. I'm not sure if it's because I'm just not as good at doing it as you are (which is entirely possible), or if my husband is a bit different than them. To me, it seems that he does not respond so much to me saying I do not want to hurt his feelings or any sort of efforts to calm him down once he is ramping up. What he does seem to want is for me to do whatever he is asking for. It's more about me following his request than validating his feelings or soothing him. And the problem is that when is starting to get dysregulated, his requests are often things that I can't do or really don't want to do (like for example, once he started losing it because we didn't have a couch at the time in our new place, and he needed us to buy one "RIGHT NOW"). There is one thing he does do when becoming dysregulated that is not a request - he suddenly starts saying he can't fulfill an obligation (ie let's say we were supposed to go out together as a family), and then starts screaming about how he can't do it (the obligation) and it's not his fault because we don't live together. In this case, I'm never sure how to respond, and I hang up the phone or leave. If you have any further thoughts, or suggestions, I would be interested to hear them!

I also wanted to add that my husband himself has told me that when he is dysregulated, there is nothing I can say or do that will stop him except apologize and say I'm wrong and basically do what he asks. It's almost like once he gets the feeling of pressure rising, he wants to lose it to release that pressure.

I was interested in something you said at the end of your post, that my husband is looking for acceptance. And I can't accept him until he is better, and he can't get better until I accept him. I thought about this for a while, as I think this is an interesting point. I'm not so sure I would describe it so much as me not accepting him (I'm not denying that I don't accept him, but that's not the way I would have described it). It's more that I am literally afraid of him. It's like living with a fire that randomly bursts into flame, and it makes me feel so unstable - financially, physically, emotionally, mentally. He knows very well that I am afraid of him, and I'm sure this makes him feel even more ashamed. But how do I accept him "as is" if I am so mistrustful of him? It's not so much that I am judging him as a bad person (again, I'm not saying I'm not at all judgmental, but I don't think this is the primary issue), it's that I can't accept him as is because I am scared to be around the burning fire. So how can I accept him under these conditions, and how can he get better under these conditions?

I always go back and forth in my mind if there is just an inherent problem that can't be resolved - his needs and my needs are simply incompatible, so the relationship just can't work. BPD is so awful -it's like there is no way of winning.

One more thing - Forever Dad, you talked about how therapy might not help for more years. Is there any way to assess at all if therapy is helping within the first few years, or if the therapist is good, or if my husband is doing any work in therapy? Should I be seeing slow, gradual improvements over time, or I shouldn't be seeing any improvements until quite a few years have passed? Or is every pwBPD different, and every path looks different?  All I know, is that when I read stories that people with BPD have written about their healing journeys, there often seems to be a moment where they take accountability and realize their lives can't go on like this anymore. And then they decide to really put in the work to get better. Not to say that they don't slip up after, but the desire doesn't leave them. This has certainly not happened with my husband, so it makes me feel like this is all hopeless, despite him attending therapy consistently.

47 years old and I finally can see it, the people-pleasing, the codependency, the highly sensitive to rejection trait, which has woven its way into all my relationships and areas of my life. I finally understand what they mean when they say, you need to sit with the discomfort of other people not being happy with you or for whatever reason.

Any advice as I go about this journey? I’m recognising the physical feelings of discomfort when I have upset someone (whether it’s real or imagined). What is next? I don’t have a therapist and it’s still not something I’m ready for, given how hard it would be to go against my dbpd wife’s wishes. I do realise this contradicts what I’ve just said about my intentions to improve. One step at a time…

I completely understand that a proper diagnosis and the right therapy plan can work wonders...but that's only if your girlfriend actually wants to make changes in her life.  If she's not ready, then not even the best psychiatrists and therapists in the world can make a bit of difference.  Therapy requires real work over time and actually being open and vulnerable...two things BPDs struggle with a lot.

The only person who can make a difference in your girlfriend's mental health challenges is her.  She has to want it and be so tired of her current life that she's willing to do whatever it takes to make real change.  I don't want to discourage you here but very few BPDs put in the work, and never until they're personally ready.

For the detective part, I'm not asking you to solve her problems.  Because here's the thing- the stuff she complains about is not her actual problems.  The real stuff comes from mental illness and it's emotional, so she says and does things to avoid dealing with the destructive thoughts she's having.

For example, if you hit your finger while hammering a nail, there's no telling what you might say in that moment.  Are you speaking pure truth right then?  Probably not, you're cussing at the hammer or the house, whatever.  And that release of energy, as dumb as it is, actually helps you feel a tiny bit better at that instant.  This is how BPDs feel when they think about being abandoned, betrayed, lied to, not valued, etc.  It's an emotional energy burst that feels good in the moment, yet they might regret it a few seconds later.

The detective part I mentioned wouldn't be catering to her every need, it would be recognizing when her mood suddenly shifts and realizing that a "mental hammer" might have just struck down.  So you focus on her feelings, her emotions, and you try to help her level out the disordered thinking.  Now, you have no idea what she's thinking or dealing with...but you can recognize things like angry, sad, or depressed.  So you soothe those emotions until the moment passes.

Why does this work?  She's sad and you help her out of her funk, which validates her feelings and let's her get back to her baseline thinking.  When she's stable and balanced, she thinks just like you or me.  When she's unstable, emotions take over and it's a rollercoaster of toxic thoughts.  Your job is to pay closer attention to the feelings and how your words, body language, and other things effect her in the moment.

This is true whether she goes through the proper therapy or not, she will always have tough moments and she will always be unstable in hard times.  For instance, my BPD daughter takes funerals really, really badly and we have to keep a closer eye on her when someone passes or their passing anniversary comes around.  My BPD ex wife would start to shut down whenever there was other people arguing...even if it was a couple at a restaurant we didn't even know.

For my kid, you can say, "Okay, I see the problem and understand the touchy subject."  But for my ex, it was seemingly out of nowhere and our day would eventually collapse into chaos.  We rarely know the "facts" so we pay close attention to the feelings and understand where they can lead unchecked.

Does that make sense?

I understand your point about "diagnosis"... what I mean is that in order to undertake the right therapeutic path, it is also important for a therapist to identify the range of dysfunction that a person has. Specifically, my girlfriend has a clear emotional dysregulation, but in a year of individual therapy she has never addressed this problem regardless of what name to give to the "diagnosis". I read with interest the part of the message about "your job as a partner is like being a detective"... this part leaves me a little confused because from what I read on the forum it is very important not to act based on what your partner needs to avoid putting yourself in the role of savior... am I wrong?

Yes..... All the time! 

Yeah, welcome to the family and thanks so much for sharing your story.  It's so incredibly hard and I'm really glad you found us.

You ended your post with, "I need to talk."  What specifically would you like to talk about?  Ways to keep the drama to a minimum?  Advice on therapy or a diagnosis?  Whether you should stay in this relationship?

Side note, you posted on the "Bettering a Relationship" section of the site, so the advice others give has to focus on reconciliation.  If that's not what you're looking for, report your own post to a moderator and ask them to move it to a different category (conflicted or detaching).

One thing I did pick up on was that you'd love for her to get a diagnosis, but unfortunately that's not a major help in itself.  What really makes meaningful change is her wanting to get help and take control of her emotions.  It's an uphill battle and it will be the hardest thing she's ever done in her life- most never do take it seriously.  But there is hope.

Additionally, BPD is a mental illness of extreme emotions.  When you're happy it's the best day ever!  When you're sad it's like the entire world is against you in every possible way.  There's rarely a middle-ground, even though that's exactly where our minds function the best.  Your job as a partner is to be like a detective studying the clues- if she's down, make her laugh and tell her how much you love her.  If she's angry, apologize for hurting her feelings and let her know how much she means to you. 

This sounds so basic, so silly almost, that you might think you're already doing that stuff just fine.  But I promise you're not, and it's not because you haven't tried.  This particular mental illness needs positive confirmations constantly because they can become unstable over the smallest of things.  It's like learning a new language in a way.  If you're determined to make things work though, it's a language you must speak fluently to understand her subtle mood changes and what it may lead to if you don't take charge and help her find balance.

I hope that helps and please, ask away with questions!

I'm so sorry you're going through this and all the escalations.  It's heartbreaking and even though it's a common story here, it still shocks me when others experience something like this. 

I used to get hit often early in my relationship and it stopped over time, but then my BPD ex started getting into fights with our BPD daughter.  I mean, literal fistfights rolling around on the floor.  I never knew what to make of it and somehow it felt sort of normal, that was just my life.  I look back years later though and think, "OMG, what was I doing?!?  How could I accept that!?!"

Where you're at right now, it's all still so fresh.  It stayed that way for me for at least six months, and the thoughts didn't fully go away for over a year.  Somehow, I still wanted "that relationship" where I was never prioritized and was often told off for the most minor things.  I just couldn't see how bad it truly was for a very long time.

For your main question, how can someone so loving also be so hateful and violent- that's the mental illness part and the instability of not thinking logically in trying circumstances.  For them, everything becomes emotional and they go to extremes in the blink of an eye...not because they want to, but because they're literally falling apart inside and trying to make sense of it themselves. 

It's truly sad and I wish there was a way that I could "fix" my ex or my daughter, but they'll struggle for life with those same issues.  Therapy can help, DBT can help, medicine can help, but at the crux of it all they must want to change.  Realizing the problem comes from within just happens to be their worst fear, so very few get the help they need and take steps to grow emotionally.

Moving forward is simple- you get through today, and tomorrow you figure out how to get through tomorrow.  That's all we can do because it's a process.  I don't think you have to forget the good or focus too much on the bad; your ex was all of those things and they were real.  Mental illness just got in the way and made things really complicated.