Thanks for the comments.

NW - I get what you're saying how it could be better for my daughter to be away from this. My daughter is going to school locally and she has struggled a little academically since starting college a couple of semesters ago. She wants to be financially smart and stay at home, she's happy to go to the local 4 year college. I may be able to cover her tuition for now but I can't in anyway pay for her to go away or live away from the house and I couldn't in good conscious tell her to take 10's of thousands in student loan debt to live in her own place. It would be a 180 from what we've instilled from her and would feel like I was kicking her out. I think she may get engaged in the next year however.

Also my son is in some vocational training programs so the long term goal is he would be employed in some fashion. He would be unsafe to live alone but slowly working towards as much independence as possible.

FD - thanks - I will at some point need to change the beneficiary of my life insurance and plan on establishing a trust to ensure my son is taken care of. Honestly I am planning for this whether or not we stay together. My wife does not think we need to plan for our son's future long terms which is confusing to me. When she wants to keep spending one point I raise again and again is the issue of needing to ensure we're investing and saving enough not just for our retirement but something to leave him when we're gone... I have life insurance right now but God willing I'll outlive that. She just says vague things like her family will take care of him. If something happened to me and she got the whole of my life insurance I don't have any confidence she would be able to manage those funds and make them last for her.

H&T - I feel you've been on a similar path to me but you're a little ahead of where I am. I appreciate your words and seeing your journey unfold.

1. Yes working on the finances but it is difficult. The changes I've made have made it that for the first time in the last 8 years we're not increasing our debt month over month. I'm even able to put some away and pay down some debt every month as well. Unless I get another revenue stream it's going to be hard to reduce any more. My uBPDw is getting increased hours and converted to a regular employee from a contractor so assuming we're together for at least 6-12 months we will see another financial counselor, once they review the situation they she will need to contribute more to the joint finances. Also I am scared of the reaction she will have with one of my next boundaries which is I will not be buying her alcohol. If she wants to drink she will need to pay for it herself. I will tell her if I choose to drink again I will need to pay for it myself. And on that note - I haven't drank in 3 months and not planning to any time soon, definitely not around her. I expect a big rage and a lot of animosity around this one so I'm working the courage up to set it.

2. Will look into specific timelines but would realistically take years to pay off all debt even with her contributing more so I don't think I can use that. Just trying to save as much as possible, pay down a reasonable amount of debt. Will need to consult with lawyer but would hope assets and debts would be split evenly (I have no idea how realistic that is). We have enough equity where I could pay off my 1/2 of the debt and have enough for 20% on a home purchase with some left for savings so feeling not terrible about that (assuming debts/assets are split).

3. Documenting, yes I'm stepping it up. We have security cameras in the house so I'm starting to download footage as saving that as relevant. Also recording as much as possible. A watch would be funny, she knows I don't like wearing watches and stopped even wearing a new apple watch last year. It would look fishy I think if I started wearing one but I do keep my 2nd phone on voice record pretty much all the time now. I've also taken photos and videos around the house of all the items in the home, including jewelry, etc.

4. I do want to call the DV hotline. I don't know why but it's a scary step and feels silly being a man. But I know it's not. I was considering calling them before contacting lawyers wondering if they may have an idea of services and if those may even provide lawyer recommendations.

5. No drinking, not even tempted right now. And for sure not around her.

6. Conversations can be hard, sometimes they feel very surface level since a lot of anything might trigger her. I haven't 100% given up and am trying to make things pleasant, fun. Still taking her out on dates, etc. She is going to therapy and trying a psych. Maybe it's still a little hopium but I will put forth effort if she is really making changes. But it won't stop me from preparing for the worst and continuing to implement boundaries to protect myself. 
 
I am to the point where I 100% know her dysregulations are indeed a her problem, not a me problem. I have to keep reminding myself that but I know it's true. (but it grinds me bad that she's telling others lies and exaggerations and definitely not telling the truth about the facts of her behavior - and that she believes much of it!). I've realized that there's no excuse for abusive behavior which is what she tried to justify herself tome with (well I did x so of course she was screaming, I "made" her feel xyz so that's just how she talks). I've listened to so many hours of audio, read so many journals and others have witnessed our interactions and while I haven't been the perfect husband I've never certainly never been abusive. I've been far too tolerant for too long while she's created an environment of hostility for me and our kids. And not to say she's always like that. If she was I guess it would be much easier to exit. Much of the time she can be fun, outgoing, sexy, a good conversationalist and exhibit a lot of good qualities.

That's good.  And I wanted to say as well that just being here looking for advice and taking steps in the right direction is huge.  Don't be so hard on yourself; we have years of patterns and behaviors that we need to correct sometimes, and it's not going to change overnight. 

To be honest, part of me did. And maybe that's good. It caused me to reflect and work on and identify other things I could do better. I really got good at the whole 'what you're saying is you're feeling 'x' and this is because of 'y' '. Arguing in this bullet point fashion got tiring though. And it is just like the Monty Python sketch. What I hated was at times, I'd take the bait. I have a ton of patience, as she'd tell me I was the most patient man she's ever known. But you can only take so much verbal abuse until you too act that way, I regret that a lot. But also a small part of me is happy I stood up for myself...albeit incorrectly. I never hit anyone, I never threw anything, slammed doors, kicked things. I did use some very personal things against her though, while hurtful were true.

Are there really no argument tactics to use with someone who constantly makes you the villain and them the victim regardless of what is said or happened? This might be why most forums and subreddits say the only answer is to leave. And that DBT and therapy only work if the person identifies they have this problem, and even then the symptoms only improve yet do not disappear as it is a personality disorder.

Hi there, what your daughter is saying sounds like projection to me. She’s describing herself, not you, because she’s in a negative thinking loop. Surely she is suffering right now, and she’s taking it out on you.

Please take care of yourself. BPD is treatable, provided that your daughter wants to make changes to feel better. If she’s fixated on blaming others for all her problems, she remains resistant to change.

I’d invite you to read the boards, to see you’re not alone, and that many of the issues and feelings are common ones.

My daughter was diagnosed BPD a couple years ago. But recently after some heave trauma for her (a friends suicide and a rape etc.) her BPD has exploded — and I think that is proof that at the core of BPD lies trauma.

She has managed to convince done family members that I am abusive and manipulative — which is just not true.

I recently read the link post called “Why BPD daughters hate their mothers” — and I wept… my daughter has a psychology undergrad degree and has convinced done family that I am abusive, neurotic, and recently psychotic — in addition to claiming that I AM BORDERLINE! What a head spinning hell this has been!

Thank god I see a therapist who explained projection to me and how it is a defense mechanism for my daughter. So much of what she accuses me of — are in actuality — truths about herself…


I am SO happy to have found this site… as I said… I am weeping to finally not feel SO alone!

Thank you for asking. It's a little better each day. It feels sureal and I felt like in a daze for a while. You are probably feeling the same way- it's such a big change. Parents are significant, even if the relationship was difficult.

Likely your brother is dealing with his own feelings and coping in his own way. However whatever the reason, you don't have to tolerate abusive behavior, especially at a time that is difficult for you too.

Hi,

Well I can relate as both my stepdaughters, one with BPD, faced eviction a few times, for breaking rules and not getting along with roommates. I wonder though, does your daughter understand what eviction is?  I think my stepdaughters didn’t actually know what it was at first, neither the meaning of the word eviction nor the notion that there were clauses in the lease which prohibited certain activities (e.g. smoking, pets, running appliances at night, etc.). I doubt either kid even read the leases, because their dad co-signed and paid. (I distinctly remember that the BPD stepdaughter didn’t know the amount of rent, when rent was due or when her lease ended.). Plus as teens, they likely thought they were « adults, » and to them, that meant they could do whatever they wanted, right?  I’m just saying, since leases are new to them, and they aren’t paying rent themselves, they might truly not be aware of their responsibilities.  With the BPD mindset, YOU are responsible, not her. And she might think, what’s the big deal, if I get evicted, my parents will get me another place, probably a better one. She might not be aware of the consequences of eviction. Plus, I bet she doesn’t know that if she has an eviction on her record, it will be very difficult to rent another place. But with BPD, thinking about consequences doesn’t typically prevent the bad behavior, which is driven by emotional distress, not logical thinking.

I’m not sure how to advise here, except to try to review the obligations of the lease with your daughter, as she might not know how it really works. It’s too bad this sort of thing isn’t generally taught in school.

For those who have read my last few posts, my daughter has already encountered a pretty large hiccup in her first apartment. Apparently, pretty much as soon as she moved in, issues started with unreasonable levels of noise coming out of her apartment at night, and a few days ago that was enhanced by the smell of pot permeating the building.... also coming out of her apartment. The apartment building only has 8 units-- 4 on her side-- and is very quiet generally. Moreover, it has a policy against pot and any other smoking. So basically, a complaint was reported to the landlord and when it was followed up upon, whatever was translated to the landlord was serious enough to warrant a very firm and formal notice being sent to me and my daughter (I guaranteed the rent), which made it clear that if there are any more disturbances or rules broken, an eviction will be filed. I'm embarrassed and very concerned. One one hand, my daughter is young--- almost 19--- and some shenanigans and bad judgment should be par for the course. On the other, this really isn't the kind of building where tenants and/or their guests behave as my daughter and/or her guests were behaving, and my daughter should have known that this wouldn't be tolerated. She also should know how to set boundaries--- like a "friend" inviting someone else that my daughter doesn't even know. She has told me that she no longer wants to be friends with the girl who was there on the nights that the problems happened, because it's clear she's just "mooching" off of her. I wasn't comfortable with her hanging out with this girl to begin with, but what can I really do when she's 18? I hope that my daughter is being truthful and doesn't sway from disconnecting from this friend, but theres always more like her if my daughter doesn't become much more selective in who she chooses to associate with, even if that means she's lonely for a while. I see this time as an opportunity for her to focus on her IOP and get her life back on track, but I really don't think she's "there" yet. She started the IOP and is attending but if she just goes through the motions and doesn't do the hard work necessary, then little will change. At this point I'm a nervous wreck--- waiting for another email saying that the landlords are going to commence eviction proceedings. I've communicated to my daughter about how serious this is and to not mistake that email from the landlord as an idle threat or something she can talk her way out of if there are any more problems, and I can only hope she can keep the reality front and center in her mind and not try to "get away" with something or foolishly allow people into the apartment that she isn't positive will behave appropriately and within all the rules of the building. I'm now thinking I made a big mistake pursuing this lovely apartment when it almost miraculously became available, instead of putting her in the only other 1 bedroom I could find, which was a dump and significantly less expensive. This is a small town and the landlords know of my family, but do not (or at least did not) know that my daughter had any issues that were out of the ordinary. I think they were probably thrilled that I approached them for the rental as soon as it became available and that guaranteed the rent on autopay. Now I'm thinking they are really regretting this and feeling duped---but I could be allowing my own anxiety to overthink all of this. All I know for sure is that based on that email, they don't appear to be messing around, and that includes filing a FORMAL eviction should and eviction become necessary--which would not only be filed against my daughter, but me as well.

Hi there,

It’s not a coincidence that there were some recent posts in the parents section about BPD kids falling apart exactly at the wrong moment, when something is going on in your life that might require extra energy or attention. Examples include sickness, holidays, birthdays and celebrations. In my life, a recent example was moving houses. I’ve come to see my adult BPD stepdaughter as a « spoiler, » in the sense that she will lash out at exactly these moments—when we are packing up for a vacation or packing up the house to move. I think she fears that we aren’t paying enough attention to her, and so she inserts herself to reclaim that attention, even if it is negative attention. One of the times she attempted suicide was on my birthday, and I’ll never be sure if that was the trigger or not. And I don’t usually do much for my birthday, just a dinner with my husband.

In fact, my husband will do this too, even if he doesn’t have BPD (though I think he has some BPD traits from time to time). For example, when I was busy preparing for my father’s funeral, he threw a major tantrum because nobody was available to pick him up at the airport. He refused to take an Uber, even when I offered to pay and arrange for it myself to pick him up. (I had paid his airfare too, and I had tried to arrange his trip so that he would be inconvenienced as little as possible, as I traveled a couple of days earlier to support my mom.). Nevertheless, he threw an absolute fit. It turns out that my poor mother agreed to pick him up, the same day as the funeral. I was busy getting flowers or something. My point is, the one time I needed a little support and understanding, he was screaming at me for being a s**** wife and saying my family was inconsiderate because I wasn’t able to pick him up at the airport. He couldn’t stand not being the focus of all my attention, and it didn’t matter that it was my dad’s funeral after a painful death from cancer, something that happens once in a lifetime. I was so rattled by my husband’s unexpected outburst that it eclipsed the sadness for my dad, and I had a very hard time getting through the day. If this happens to normal people, it’s an order of magnitude worse with BPD.

Wow, Kells. Thank you so much for this incredibly helpful and thoughtful message. It is incredibly grounding and validating and reassuring. I can do this - focus on the short term, make objective observations, do my best to not be reactive, and then, post-June, re-evaluate where we are and what happened and what I want for the future (because that is also the time when there will be a lot of pressure to have a baby or not). Big decisions to come!