Oh dear, my heart really goes out to you! It sounds like you have done a lot, perhaps there is something to be grasped from trauma healing to try and figure out how to relate to her.
I’m sorry I can’t suggest anything, but I am in the process of going overseas to help hurting and traumatized kids. I am taking a class soon in Arts & Trauma Healing (masters-level at a university for missionaries). This class will not make me any type of counselor, but will give me insight into how to relate to someone who has been through recent trauma using some local arts (even music & dance) to help the kids heal.

This is not necessarily anything you have done, that is one of your first things to realize, no matter the circumstances, DO NOT blame yourself, even when she says hurtful things to try and make you feel guilty.

As humans, we always make wrong decisions, unfortunately this is just a part of human nature, I can hear and feel how much you care, and how hard you have tried. You are a wonderful, caring person!

So, dear Mom2two86, take heart and look into ideas to relate to someone who has experienced trauma, and see if you can reach her.

You and your poor child will be in my prayers. I truly wish you the best.

OurWorld

Hi Tina, I'll just echo what other's are saying. You seem to have such a big heart, and are so thoughtful. So often I think to myself that I feel just like you do regarding all the mess with the BPD partner. We both have a hard time letting go.

Something that has been forefront in my mind ever since the relationship ended is that SHE would never accept from ME the treatment I got from her.

Never. She would call that abusive behavior and tell a female friend to leave a man who did these things.

Her behavior was objectively abusive. Textbook, objective. No questions about it. The things like yelling, pointing fingers in my face in anger, name calling, put downs, belittling, lying, gaslighting, violently pulling off the highway threatening to make me walk, snapping, explosive anger, mocking my voice, violating explicit boundaries.

And all the other stuff under that umbrella like bread crumbing, invalidation, devaluing, ghosting (ignoring calls and messages for days, a week).

So...why do I miss her? Why do I think I still love her?

For me, it's been a deep deep journey into the self, and why I feel the way I do. This is my work to do.

I haven't tried to contact her at all since the final, awful phone conversation. I'm proud of myself for that. And I still miss her. Again, my inner work to do.

The post above mentioned attachment styles. I have watched that same channel, and there are some good things in there. I'm not certain about the woman's qualifications, but it is a very popular channel.

I have deep, deep attachment to her. I still do. I know that is my issue to explore and understand. Learning about attachment styles is interesting and gives a bridge to deeper things in our family of origin and experiences growing up. So I think that's useful.

Just here to support you and share a little bit if it might be helpful.

I applaud your courage. Setting and holding to boundaries in the face of your pwBPD is tough. For me, I am hooked on the PBD-high that comes during the peaceful times. The times when my spouse is my absolute best friend.

So, for two days, my wife has been impossible. To must questions, she says, "whatever you want (I don't want to upset you)", "I did not want to assume you'd do it (it is cook dinner, something I have done for our family for 20 years now)" or "I'm just trying to avoid you getting so angry with me." Even when she is being her absolute most careful, she cannot resist scolding me or criticizing my behavior within 10 minutes of any time together. 

This recent pullback and wall building is a result of our last therapy appointment, where our therapist suggested we BOTH approach disagreements with loving, curious questions. I responded by saying my loving, curious questions send the message to my wife that I am angry with her or I'm defending myself. How I respond is not as important as responding in a loving accepting way. I simply cannot send the message that I am unhappy with her. 

Of course, saying this sent the message that she was flawed, unable to hear a criticism, a truism I work very hard to communicate.  Now the wall is up, every interaction is like talking to an angry teenager. I know I need to be in parent mode right now. I'm not sure I can.

Here is an urgent questions. I am not to this boundary setting for myself. Do I tell my wife these new boundaries to give her a chance to met them or do I just follow-through? OK, writing that question, I realize the answer. Still, you know there is NO way my wife will say comply, not when she believes I am so unhappy with her.

Do I try to be a patient parent for a while, do I let her know this boundary, or do I simply leave for a few days?  If I'm a patient parent, for how long do I need to assume that role? 

My goodness. Relationships with a pwBPD can suck!

Thankyou yes I do have that book and the follow up one about being fluent in LEAP. I am reviewing them. I feeli understand the theory, but need practice to apply it in the moment.

Oh, that is really difficult. I'm sorry she's falling apart and that you had to be involved so deeply.

I'm glad you have connections with her friends and that they agreed to keep you updated. I hope that provides some relief.

Have you had a chance to check out the book "I am Not Sick I Don't Need Help!" by Xavier Amador, PhD yet?

It was so helpful for getting in a headspace of how to communicate more effectively with persons who struggle with mental illness. It's written with schizophrenia in mind, but is applicable to situations where you have a family member who needs help but who won't accept it and who views you as an enemy.

I would highly recommend it for your situation. I think I got my copy at a local used bookstore for ≤$10.

Oh right, I do think you said that. I get confused sometimes. That has to be painful. You are doing the work! As we all are. It's always good to have people who understand the difficulties of these relationships.

Hi Kells,

I thought I responded a while ago - apologies - thanks as always for your thoughtful comments and suggestions.

Updates...
- I'm about halfway through Aguirre's (Wrath of God?) book. 
- I've been testing the indirect deprogramming approach.
- D15 has not made any additional comments about her T or me communicating with her T, although I don't have visibility to their meeting schedule. Still, could be an indication that the T has tightened up her approach, if that's what you were getting at.  TBD.
- D15 is still with me 50% of the time, but consistently seeks ways to transition back to her mom early
- uBPDxw ignored the schedule and booked spring break travel with kids partially during my parenting time; subsequently agreed to makeup days - 2nd week in May.  I'll be watching to see how D15 responds to "extra" time with me

A new development is that uBPDxw scheduled a meeting with D13's school counselor - she mentioned it via email, but didn't forward the meeting invitation or zoom link and I missed the meeting - which is on me.  The upside is that I ended up with a 1:1 meeting with the counselor who stated that no anxiety is present, D13 is a great kid, etc.

In parallel, D13's PsyD has communicated 1:1 with me that she does not see anxiety, but does see disparagement, etc., from my uBPDxw...  her eyes are open, and we had a candid discussion about validating uBPDxw's feelings without necessarily prescribing prozac simply because it's what the mom wants.  Encouraging. 

I'm going to sit with this for a minute. 

Which brings me to my question du jour...

In our last session in March, D13's PsyD mentioned that one of D13's biggest concerns is "when her parents fight" - I don't think uBPDxw even heard the comment in the moment, she was enraged that the doctor had not capitulated to her demand for prozac...   

In the course of follow up with uBPDxw, I returned to this:

"D13's doctor noted that one of D13's biggest concerns is "when parents fight" - What can we do about this?

Please let me know how I can help reduce conflict?  I don't expect that we'll always agree, however I'm open to dialog about how we cooperate.

Thanks for considering."

Days went by, but today I received the following response from uBPDxw:

"I am confused about your question re/ "when parents fight."

I am sure that this WAS a concern for D13, and anxiety-producing, as I am sure it was with all the kids...when we were living together.

The reality is that the kids do not see or hear us fight anymore. We don't see each other, so we don't have much time to fight. I am unclear on how this impacts D13 in her day-to-day life. I accept that it is a past Trauma that should be addressed in therapy, but I don't see how this is a current issue that we should be doing something to change. We already changed it."


I'm still letting this one sink in.

This comes from a person who never misses a chance to give side-eye at transitions or in situations where we are both present - as baseline behavior.  The kids routinely see an overt  show of distress or dismay or disapproval (X toward me) whenever we're both present.

And there have been instances in which my X has overtly started arguments in front of the kids - when we had to renew passports together, for example.

Taking a minute to decide how - or even if - to respond to this one.

Thanks again to all those who provided advice about my original question - being called a narcissist. Things have gone so much further in the past month, I thought I'd provide an update.

After I last wrote, my daughter was sending me increasingly bizarre messages - lots of paranoia and strange demands. Because she lives at such a distance from me, and I know so few people around her, it was getting increasingly worrying and hard to understand.

I did go try to visit her just before Easter, thinking I'd make a surprise visit and we'd have a reunion and maybe have an opportunity to reestablish our relationship. Boy was I overly-optimistic!  When I first arrived at my daughter's house, her roommate let me in as she was asleep. She slept for several more hours and I spoke to her roommate who told me she was afraid of my daughter and was moving out due to her erratic behaviour.

Eventually I went out for some food and on my return the roommate was barricaded in her bedroom (with her child) and my daughter was threatening them from outside. I've never heard her speak this way and she was banging the walls (also never seen this). When she realized I was in the house, she began to threaten me too, saying she wanted me to die. I left and called 911. The police helped the roommate and child leave, but did not apprehend my daughter. I was too afraid to return to her house on my own.

After a few more similar and concerning episodes, I eventually went through a court process to have my daughter apprehended for psychiatric evaluation (hardest thing I have ever done!). She was apprehended and was in hospital for a week, but eventually discharged as she did not meet the criteria to be held against her will and I believe refused all offers of therapy or treatment (I know little as they could not tell me without her permission).

I returned home after she was discharged as there didn't seem to be anything further I could do. She is of course, angry with me at this point, but also in an increasingly precarious situation. I discovered while I was there that some work colleagues had (on two separate occasions) taken her to hospital for emergency psychiatric treatment (she again left the hospital and could not be held against her will). One (a doctor) described her as having a psychotic break in a business meeting. Because she has worked as a consultant, she has no work security, no ability to find work (due to her behaviour) and no way of supporting herself. She was previously very successful, has her own home with a mortgage, etc and stands to lose it all, as far as I can see. I'm sure the threat of that is causing even more stress. She is completely unaware that her behaviour is causing her loss of work - she attributes this to various conspiracies that are working against her to prevent her from having an income.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I might do to help her. She has only reached out to me with abusive obscene messages at this point, to the point where I blocked her temporarily. I am in touch with a few of her friends who said they will keep me up to date about her, but all are very concerned too. Other than worrying about her 24/7 there's seems to be little I can do, even if I was close by.

Sorry this is a bit long and probably depressing to read! If anyone has experience with this, or suggestions I am open to any at this point!

Parenting is much much easier when it is your child who has BPD. Treating my wife with such caution, in the face of further criticism is quite difficult.

Keep doing what you are doing. You daughter is lucky to have you.

I am sorry you are experiencing such a one-sided relationship regarding sex and intimacy. I think it's great you are establishing what you will and will not accept and have firm outcomes if they are not met. Can you follow-up?

I ask that question because I spent 25 years scrambling to become the person with whom my wife was willing to have sex. She has told me she does not feel safe around me because, well, because of my early reactions to her BPD-like behaviors. I was a college football player and lift weights a ton...from the beginning, she has told me I am too big for her (of course I would have liked to know this BEFORE we married).  Regardless the excuse, nothing changed. I even lost 30 pounds, with 12% body fat with no success. She has NEVER initiated physical intimacy with me..I mean never. If anything happened I had to start with an hour-long massage. About 1% of the time I was rewarded with sex.

I can remember the year before we were married and one 3 month period after about 15 years of marriage we had wonderful sex. Then it started again. Either I challenged her and faced her wrath and a wall of criticism or I accepted it, reducing the number of things for which she can be angry.

Now, I have learned to let things slide and to ask for what I need. If the consequences are great, I let them go. Unfortunately, I am no longer attracted to my wife. After 35 years of criticism, body shaming, and more, I have lost interest.

If you are going to stay in this relationship, learn all you can about BPD and how to interact. I have learned a lot about communication and how to stay involved without engaging in the criticism from people on this site.

I like that you are setting limits regarding sex. Is your limit the bare minimum you will accept or something more? I find my limits are the bare minimum, which causes conflict when they are not met. I am so please with the calm times, I am willing to put up with anything to maintain the peace.

I wonder what other's have had similar experiences regarding sex and their pwBPD?