Got sucked in again...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

He knows exactly how to rope me back in.  Sometimes it's so blatant I can even see exactly what he's doing.  He had a very rough time on Thurday, when it looked like the sheriff was coming the next morning to evict him and his roommate (who, according to management, hadn't paid the rent.)  Crisis was averted when exBPDpf called on his boss/friend/one time lover to pony up $1,600.  Friday night he goes to a party and texts me at 3:30 in the a.m.  He is upset with me today because I emailed him back, I didn't text:  Some excerpts from our conversation:  

"It seemd fairly straightforward that you didn't feel enough concern to warrant texting me back.  Or you would have done so.  "I don't know your scehdule" and "you might have been sleeping" are excuses... .  

":)on't worry about it anymore.  You've shown me I can't count on you, so I'm no longer going to.  I'll just deal with everything alone and on my own like I have for the last few months already... .  

"It comes down to this: if you'd have cared, you would have reached out... .  less than 24 hours after this life-shattering incident, I reach out for help and you write me a f****** email in response.  You DON'T CARE... .  

ME:  I care about you very much.  It's hard for me not to "overcare" which is something that isn't good.  I'm trying to navigate this (trying to be friends after the breakup) as best I can and I know you are too.


HIM: "Well, don't worry about it. Apparently whenever I try and rely on someone, they abandon me when I need them most. So I'll just go back to leaving everything inside and not relying on anyone anymore.  You just won't hear from me anymore. You want to reach out, that's fine, but I probably won't respond... .  

ME: I made a judgment call.  I'm sorry that it hurt you.  


HIM: Well, it was the wrong call. and it hurt me immeasurably

and I can't put myself in that position anymore

ME: You said it yourself... .  we're going to make mistakes as we figure this out.

there will be missteps.

HIM:  My misstep was trusting you.  Go live your life, there's obviously not any room in it for me at all anymore

ME:  Okay... .  that was extremely, extremely hurtful.  I send an email instead of a text and you've "mistrusted" me?

HIM:  Imagine if I sent you an email after your dad died saying "Glad you found some support on FB!" and didn't bother trying to get in touch with you... .  

... .  I... .  I don't think I can go on like this anymore. I think it might be best for us to separate entirely from one another

Because all I think of every day is how much I love you, and how much I miss you... .  and how much you don't want me... .  I'm sorry, but in my head and in my heart that's how it is. that's how it keeps happening. You keep abandoning me over and over, intentionally or unintentionally.  You say you want me in your life but I don't think you really do... .  The point here is, you've rejected me and I can't deal with that. I can't rely on you, nor whould I be, because you're not my lover, partner or companion... .  I wish you the best on your road to self-discovery, and I honestly think you'll discover your life will be much better off without me in it."


And of course, as I say goodbye and log off, he texts me that he is still talking,but "I guess there's nothing more to say."  Then, "You know as well as I do this will change tomorrow, right up until it happens again."  Then, "Could you please get back on AIM soI can say a few more things?  I promise it won't be attacking or in any way even directed at you.  I just need to talk to a voice that cares/knows for a few."

So then I get the bipolar swing of  "I'm exhausted with my life. I'm so, so tired and I just want it all to stop and go away.  I'm tired of my bipolar and my PTSD. I'm tired of never knowing or understanding what my brain wants or how it's going to act or what it's going to do from one hour to the next.  I'm tired of uncertainty. I'm tired of fighting just for this pathetically meager existence I'm living. I'm tired of being smart enough to know how ~ty my life is and knowing existentially how much better it could be, but I can't make it.I'm tired of being intelligent. I'm tired of thinking and I'm tired of knowing. I'm tired of being unhealthy and not being able to change that. I'm tired of disability.  I'm tired of being lonely and alone. I'm tired of rejection... .  last night I took an extra 1/2 seroquel. It made me feel worse before I felt better. I was freakig out pretty bad and I had no voice in the darkness. I had no light. I was completely and utterly alone with myself and my ~ed-up brain. I wanted to call 911 but realized I can't afford it, and it wouldn't have helped. I wanted to kill myself but realized it wouldn't matter. I wanted to be held and instead I sat and sobbed alone. There is no part of my existence I enjoy."

This used to kill me--and of course I would try to make it  better--and make it worse--and it would lead to violence.  And of course I agreed to leave my phone on tonight. 

Sucked.  Right back. In.  Gawd.

[Changed4safety]

He knows exactly how to rope me back in.  Sometimes it's so blatant I can even see exactly what he's doing.  He had a very rough time on Thurday, when it looked like the sheriff was coming the next morning to evict him and his roommate (who, according to management, hadn't paid the rent.)  Crisis was averted when exBPDpf called on his boss/friend/one time lover to pony up $1,600.  Friday night he goes to a party and texts me at 3:30 in the a.m.  He is upset with me today because I emailed him back, I didn't text:  Some excerpts from our conversation:  

"It seemd fairly straightforward that you didn't feel enough concern to warrant texting me back.  Or you would have done so.  "I don't know your scehdule" and "you might have been sleeping" are excuses... .  

":)on't worry about it anymore.  You've shown me I can't count on you, so I'm no longer going to.  I'll just deal with everything alone and on my own like I have for the last few months already... .  

"It comes down to this: if you'd have cared, you would have reached out... .  less than 24 hours after this life-shattering incident, I reach out for help and you write me a f****** email in response.  You DON'T CARE... .  

ME:  I care about you very much.  It's hard for me not to "overcare" which is something that isn't good.  I'm trying to navigate this (trying to be friends after the breakup) as best I can and I know you are too.


HIM: "Well, don't worry about it. Apparently whenever I try and rely on someone, they abandon me when I need them most. So I'll just go back to leaving everything inside and not relying on anyone anymore.  You just won't hear from me anymore. You want to reach out, that's fine, but I probably won't respond... .  

ME: I made a judgment call.  I'm sorry that it hurt you.  


HIM: Well, it was the wrong call. and it hurt me immeasurably

and I can't put myself in that position anymore

ME: You said it yourself... .  we're going to make mistakes as we figure this out.

there will be missteps.

HIM:  My misstep was trusting you.  Go live your life, there's obviously not any room in it for me at all anymore

ME:  Okay... .  that was extremely, extremely hurtful.  I send an email instead of a text and you've "mistrusted" me?

HIM:  Imagine if I sent you an email after your dad died saying "Glad you found some support on FB!" and didn't bother trying to get in touch with you... .  

... .  I... .  I don't think I can go on like this anymore. I think it might be best for us to separate entirely from one another

Because all I think of every day is how much I love you, and how much I miss you... .  and how much you don't want me... .  I'm sorry, but in my head and in my heart that's how it is. that's how it keeps happening. You keep abandoning me over and over, intentionally or unintentionally.  You say you want me in your life but I don't think you really do... .  The point here is, you've rejected me and I can't deal with that. I can't rely on you, nor whould I be, because you're not my lover, partner or companion... .  I wish you the best on your road to self-discovery, and I honestly think you'll discover your life will be much better off without me in it."


And of course, as I say goodbye and log off, he texts me that he is still talking,but "I guess there's nothing more to say."  Then, "You know as well as I do this will change tomorrow, right up until it happens again."  Then, "Could you please get back on AIM soI can say a few more things?  I promise it won't be attacking or in any way even directed at you.  I just need to talk to a voice that cares/knows for a few."

So then I get the bipolar swing of  "I'm exhausted with my life. I'm so, so tired and I just want it all to stop and go away.  I'm tired of my bipolar and my PTSD. I'm tired of never knowing or understanding what my brain wants or how it's going to act or what it's going to do from one hour to the next.  I'm tired of uncertainty. I'm tired of fighting just for this pathetically meager existence I'm living. I'm tired of being smart enough to know how ~ty my life is and knowing existentially how much better it could be, but I can't make it.I'm tired of being intelligent. I'm tired of thinking and I'm tired of knowing. I'm tired of being unhealthy and not being able to change that. I'm tired of disability.  I'm tired of being lonely and alone. I'm tired of rejection... .  last night I took an extra 1/2 seroquel. It made me feel worse before I felt better. I was freakig out pretty bad and I had no voice in the darkness. I had no light. I was completely and utterly alone with myself and my ~ed-up brain. I wanted to call 911 but realized I can't afford it, and it wouldn't have helped. I wanted to kill myself but realized it wouldn't matter. I wanted to be held and instead I sat and sobbed alone. There is no part of my existence I enjoy."

This used to kill me--and of course I would try to make it  better--and make it worse--and it would lead to violence.  And of course I agreed to leave my phone on tonight. 

Sucked.  Right back. In.  Gawd.

[waitaminute]

"take care. Good bye"

And of course send it email

[Changed4safety]

And why can I not do that simple thing?  Why do I have to keep proving that I'm not abandoning him, that I'm not a horrible person?

*sigh*

[Changed4safety]

How can I not come to the aid of someone who is hurting who is reaching out?  That's what I need to figure out.

[Awakecj]

Because helping this particular someone is damaging to you and you need to be your top priority - you are worth it

Also wanted to note that your SO texts sound very similar to my soon to be ex hwBPD texting.  Does he really do the ... .  thing all the time? Mine does, that's pretty weird.

[anonnon]

And why can I not do that simple thing?  Why do I have to keep proving that I'm not abandoning him, that I'm not a horrible person?

*sigh*

Have you noticed how many times he is emotionally manipulative in those excerpts?  You know he makes you react with guilt-trips, so you need to get away. Put YOU first, not someone who treats you like dirt when he needs to blow off some stress.

[Blessed0329]

Oh my, that sounds just like stuff my expwBPD tries to do with me. Although I am a compassionate person too, (which is what attracts BPDs to us), I had to learn how to gently cut mine off when he would start this. You know you cannot win this war of words. He is trying to instill guilt, and he is succeeding. He feels bad and wants you to feel bad, too. This is not your responsibility. Mine is gearing up again with me, and trying these "poor me, no one loves me" messages to bait me.

How can I not come to the aid of someone who is hurting who is reaching out?  That's what I need to figure out.

One thing that helped me was to stop for a moment and check myself. I had to ask what my TRUE motive was for replying to these pleas. When I was honest, I realized if I responded my ex, 99% of the time it was because I needed to feel needed; or I wanted him back; or I just have this savior complex and must accept I cannot truly save anyone from themselves. When you get the strength to say, "I am sorry, but I can't be who you need me to be right now. I wish you well," and walk away, you may feel guilty, but you will be affirming yourself, and helping him as well to seek a more appropriate shoulder to lean on.

[FindingMe2011]

And why can I not do that simple thing?  Why do I have to keep proving that I'm not abandoning him, that I'm not a horrible person?

*sigh*

How can I not come to the aid of someone who is hurting who is reaching out?  That's what I need to figure out.

Change,

   

A look into your FOO should give you some insight, on how you have learned or taught yourself, to come to your illness, of co-dependency. Its what you have always done, in some form or fashion, and a staple of this is, inability to let go. Detachment, which is accompanied by abandonment depression,( and also necessary for growth/maturity) needs to be navigated through. Though this time, you have the ability to put these feelings in their correct place. Self discovery will show you that it is you, that is hurting.  But not only do you not know how to do this, you have learned that others well being, is more important than your own. So putting the focus on him, is the path of least resistance(less pain) .  Do you understand the dynamic of his illness? Abandonment is at the core of his illness, and the origin of his pain, and behavior. It was well in place before you, and will be there long after you. Learning how to not take it personally, helped me. He has convinced you, that you are the cause of his pain, and possibly you feel the same towards him. Further investigation would prove that this r/s, just pulled off the band-aids, and exposed your trauma, you've spent a lifetime covering.  Keep asking and learning, your on the right path.  I wish you well, PEACE 

[seeking balance]

How can I not come to the aid of someone who is hurting who is reaching out?  That's what I need to figure out.

You learn to sit in uncomfortable feelings and change your own behaviors - same thing we want our BPD's to do actually.

Helping people is a good thing - helping people who routinely abuse the help... .  how is that actually helping them?

Now, if you are going to be in contact with your ex - you will want to learn the proper communication techniques.  You are in this forum because you believe your ex to be BPD.  There are communication strategies to help these situations.  There are boundary lessons to help these situations... .  Radical Acceptance of who the person is - this is who he is.  If you want him in your life in any capacity, it is your responsibility to manage boundaries and communication especially when he is triggered.

Look, I hate saying no to people, it is uncomfortable still - but I do it with people who I will end up feeling frustrated, unappreciated or simply irritated by since I know what the likely outcomes will be based on their past behavior.  It is uncomfortable for me still -but I do it.  And in doing it, the uncomfortable gets a bit easier and it is way less dramatic than actually doing it and having days or weeks of a situation that I don't want to be involved with.

Life is not always easy - it is learning to accept and sit with uncomforable feelings that result from healthy boundaries that we become emotionally mature.

Hang in there - thanks for putting this topic on here - it takes courage to look in the mirror - good job!

Peace,

SB

[Changed4safety]

This just came on  my playlist.

Our interaction is unhealthy.  For both of us.  He sees how sick he is.  I fear that if I don't keep saying "No, you're a good person and I love you" he'll kill himself.  He doesn't really want to when he's rational, but he has tried before, and if he is in the "dark place" he might succeed.  It passes in a few hours, but that's certainly enough to take the gun he keeps insisting to have at his place and do something terrible.

I thought I was past the FOG, but clearly I'm not. 

I had just started to find some peace, thought we might actually defy the odds and pull this off and stay friends.  Thought he was able to deal with his own life withlut dragging me into it.  But apparently not.


"Funnyman"


Locked inside your head

Do you realize the things you said

Never made sense?

We can sit here and laugh

But we don't know the half of it,

In your defense

We've been talking a while

And it seems to me each time you smile

Lights are coming on

But they don't burn too strong

And they won't stay for long

And then they're gone again

Funnyman, gotta try to be something wonderful

Funnyman, listening to the world turning on its sail

Turn it into a brand new universe

Funnyman could never be anything else.

Do you remember that night

When I had to play your angel

Saving your soul?

Even though you were holding on tight

A part of you was taken by the demons below

With no one to lose

Said you feel like a bruise

On a beautiful body.

And all the damage you do

Is so honest and true

I don't want to feel sorry for you

Funnyman, gotta try to be something wonderful

Funnyman, listening to the world turning on its sail

Turn it into a brand new universe

Funnyman could never be anything else.

[seeking balance]

  I fear that if I don't keep saying "No, you're a good person and I love you" he'll kill himself.  He doesn't really want to when he's rational, but he has tried before, and if he is in the "dark place" he might succeed.  It passes in a few hours, but that's certainly enough to take the gun he keeps insisting to have at his place and do something terrible.

suicide is serious... .  absolutely

If you think you saying "I love you" is keeping him from killing himself, this may be a mistake on your part.  Honestly, do you think you singlularly have this much power over him or his decisions?

I had just started to find some peace, thought we might actually defy the odds and pull this off and stay friends.  Thought he was able to deal with his own life withlut dragging me into it.  But apparently not.

Did he "drag" you into it or did he ask for help?  Friends ask friends for help - it was your choice to say yes or no.  It was your choice to become emotionally involved in his crisis.

Until we face the facts of our own motivations - it has hard to switch from victim mentality ourselves.

You have the power to change your own reactions/actions - this is a good thing 

[Changed4safety]

I own that this was my choice.  I am horrible keeping my boundaries in place.  I sent him an email a while ago saying that I didn't like the implied immediacy of texts and that I would prefer emails.  And then of course I would send him a casual text.  >< 

It was OK for him to reach out during the emergency.  He actually handled it very well, but interestingly enough, when I tried to commend him and validate how well he had handled it, he got kind of angry and kept insisting he isn't a strong person, and that he had no choice but to be strong during this, and that once he was done he was going to go into the shower and break down.  I backed away, stopped trying to validate.  I saw that he is DEFENDING his weakness.  He likes being the victim, likes being helped.  There are moments when he doesn't, and those used to give me hope, but not any more. 

We are still in the dance.  He harangued me about putting "terms and conditions" on the friendship when I told him I didn't want to see pictures of girls on his FB and was going to unfriend him (but stay friends otherwise).  He threatened to end contact, and I didn't want that.  So I caved.

I caved again yesterday.  It's funny, saying "I want you when I want you, and I want you to comfort me in the way I want, not the way that you want, and if you don't, I'm going to say you're not trustworthy, and you're abandoning me, and cut off contact with you" is certainly more off a "terms and condition" issue than my FB request awas. 

I realize that he WILL NOT grow unless his feet are to the fire.  He won't take responsibility for his life.  He has a therapist, other friends, the internet (plenty of forums like this for people who are going through bipolar issues for him to turn to) but he wants to control me.  He didn't like that I left, and is bullying me into staying in my life in a way that relieves pressure on him.  And if I don't agree to do exactly what he wants the way he wants it, I am a horrible person.

I definitely have FOO issues, my mom was a verbally abusive alcholic, and my dad, whom I lost a y ear ago, was my rescuer. 

But going on this way is like me tacitly approving of him eating poison... .  poison he got from my pantry.  I may not put it in his tea, but I put it on the table and just hope he won't take it.

If I really DO love him and want him to be well... .  I have to go, completely, don't I?  He won't walk without the crutch as long as the crutch is there.

[maria1]

Hi C4S

I'm sorry for what you're going through. Your situation sounds similar to how mine has been with my ex boyfriend (ud) so I'll offer my experience in the hope it may help.

I do now have limited contact with him. I do fear that he may kill himself but if he ever expresses suicidal ideation to me, he knows now that I will contact the authorities. When we were together he used to hint at suicide quite often; I would drop everything and arrive, at which point he would say he was fine. Of course I then blamed myself for over reacting, utterly in the FOG. After 5 months in the relationship he took an overdose. I was with him through his hospitalisation and at one point asked him to give me some pills I guessed he was secretly taking back to the ward to OD on again.

He continually credited me with saving his life. I continually said I hadn't. I don't know if he meant to kill himself but I believe he was i an incredibly dark place and that he sees suicide as an option. I slept with him for nights after his discharge from hospital and the distress that I saw in his sleep was real.

When he ended the relationship his message to me was he couldn't have a relationship with me because we were too close, had shared too much darkness. But he wanted to be 'best friends' and said he would have to kill himself if we weren't. I then found out he was seeing someone else. He still said we had to be friends and even asked I would 'watch for him slipping'. This meant keep an eye on him getting into a suicidal depression. This also meant keeping my phone on all night and being at his beck and call whilst he was beginning a relationship with another woman.

It got crazier and I said I couldn't be friends. He went into meltdown and got nasty and I went NC, changing my mobile number and email. Just before I did he hinted suicide again; I rang the GP. He raged at me. I said very clearly that if he ever hinted suicide to me again that's what I would do.

Your text/ email exchanges with your ex are almost word for word like some of the exchanges I have had.

He got back in touch after around 10 weeks of NC. I said I'd try to be friends. After a rocky road we are at this point which works for me. The following things are things which were not this way in the relationship or when we first tried to be friends. They are not 'rules' but they are differences to how things used to be and if he didn't keep to these boundaries I think he knows I'd have to go NC again. He understands how much I'm damaged by the relationship and that my children and own health have to come first:

He doesn't have my mobile number;

He doesn't see my children;

He has one email address to contact me;

He doesn't ring my landline number- this one I have never had to state as a boundary since he went crazy ringing it constantly a week or so after he regained contact. This one is his own as he respects the reason for not upsetting my kids. He went quite crazy that day and it was just lucky my kids weren't with me;

He doesn't threaten suicide.

At first the suicide threats boundary (and that WAS a clear boundary stated by me- if you do A then I will do B) worried me because he stopped doing it so I have to accept that if he really wants to kill himself he will not reach out to me first. That was hard BUT I accepted that he can reach out others, or he may be determined upon that path, in which case I cannot stop him anyway.

His efforts to recycle have lessened. He contacts me now and again and I feel that my boundaries are getting stronger. I still would like to be able to support him if I can. I know that if he is suicidal the best thing is for me to call it in, no debate. I can't be the one to fix that, no individual can.

I hope what I've said makes some sense. I'm trying to say that LC is possible on terms that you want but only if you feel it is positive for you and you may not be there yet. You should not be forced into a situation where you are not sleeping for worry and not able to turn your phone off at night. I was there and I understand you feel you couldn't possibly turn it off. An option is changing your mobile and explaining why you are, whether he listens or not. He will see it as a sign of abandonment and the Guilt will be ranked up on you. That's the disorder. That's a desperate need to keep you close even within the push away. It's impossible for you.

I think you need to look after yourself. I hope you can find a better place for you. x

[waitaminute]

Suicide... .   if he carries it out, it will be the ultimate way of saying "its all your fault"

Gotta let em fall. I expect to get a voice mail someday saying "answer or I will jump off the bridge".

I care. But I did my part -probably more than any other man in the world- and it still didn't help her.

Of course, you alone must choose how and for what you will sacrifice your own life. But don't be mistaken that the sacrifice will do more than make them feel satisfied for 5 minutes.

[seeking balance]

If I really DO love him and want him to be well... .  I have to go, completely, don't I?  He won't walk without the crutch as long as the crutch is there.

I am not sure why you are on the leaving board actually - leaving board is about detaching for you.

If you want to have a different relationship dynamic, why not be on the staying board so you can learn boundaries and communication tools?  no judgement, just seems like it would be better for both you and him if you were on a board that could support your issues regarding his BPD.  The leaving board supports detaching to go on in life w/o your BPD as a central friend/partner, etc.