Grandmothers upcoming 80th birthday party

[smiley gladhands]

someone there suggested i post here for advice on my situation. Here was my post. (background - wife(BPD) & sister in law got in an argument at christmas. We have 2 small children under 3)

could use some advice in dealing with the situation as it currently stands now. After multiple arguments and threats, my wife continues to tell me she would not attend my grandmothers upcoming 80th birthday party, and neither of my children would be able to attend, but she didnt "give a f***" if i attend.

So i told her would go by myself, and left it at that, and we havent discussed it for weeks. Fast forward to yesterday, when i was confirming with my parents specifics about the party (timing, etc) she started saying i can't go, as she can't handle 2 kids home alone by herself, and the timing wouldnt work given my childrens nap schedule. I told her we never discussed that point, and per our last conversation, i wasn't pressuring her or kids to attend, but i wanted to go. I tried pointing out to her that staying home with 2 children was her choice, and everyone was invited and that i tried compromising with her by (1) asking her & the kids to attend anyway (2) letting me take the 2 kids and she can stay back at home or (3) letting me take 1 child.

She then started screaming at me that we are "finished", and that she'll never trust me again, and she views me as a stranger, and kept saying we were "done". She took her pillow and blankets and went to sleep on the couch, sobbing and crying. I followed her downstairs and told her basically that i didnt think she felt that strongly about me personally attending, and since it upset her this much, i wasn't going to go either (she just told me to go away and leave her alone, which i did). When i went downstairs this morning, some clothes i had in a laundry basket downstairs were thrown all over the living room, so i guess she felt the need to throw things.

I was expecting the full silent treatment this morning, but sHe continues to say its really simple, and can't believe how my parents are picking my sister-in-law over her. My parents refuse to "uninvite" anyone to the party and dont want to get involved, which is the reaction any sane person would have, in my opinion.

I had sworn i was gonna stick to my guns about going to this thing, but i'm honestly not sure if she is or isn't serious with threats about divorce, etc. I can't let it come to that, as she will do everything in her power to separate me from the children as she knows it will kill me to be away from them. I also feel i need to be around to protect the little ones from her rage. She has a habit of making up "facts" to fit her version of things, so i seriously wouldn't be surprised if she would make up stories about neglect, abuse, or whatever else if we were to separate, just to get her way.

Should i have stuck to my guns, and seen what would've happened? I know shes going to continue to play this card with me when she wants, and i dont see a way around it right now

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[arabella]

Hi smiley gladhands! Sorry to hear about your situation - definitely tough to handle.

It sounds like your wife is feeling abandoned. Note that I say she feels this way, not that it actually is that way. In her mind, everyone is taking your SIL's side. It isn't about the party, it isn't about the kids, and it isn't about your relationship. She's angry and hurting. She doesn't know how to handle the frustration and her emotions so she's venting steam.

The solutions that you offered were entirely reasonable and practical and normal - but they didn't address the real issue and they didn't really acknowledge your wife's underlying feelings. She might not even be fully aware of her feelings on the matter. This is where the validation tools come in handy. She needs to hear that you understand how she feels, and she needs to know that you are 'on her side'. You are going to have to give her an 'out' as regarding your parents too - she needs to be able to accept their decision but not feel like it's directed against her, and she needs to feel validated in being frustrated without directing that at your parents or being blamed for feeling that way. E.g. saying that your parents' reaction is "what any same person" would do makes it sound like she is insane for feeling the way she does. Yes, their response is reasonable and appropriate, but you need to acknowledge that it still makes your wife feel a certain way and that is perfectly valid too. It's tricky (to say the least) but the tools on this site are really helpful! Read around the boards a bit and I'm sure you'll pick up some really helpful tips for navigating your relationship.

I don't see this as sticking to your guns. I think you can go to the party, but you also have to acknowledge what's going on from your wife's perspective. And my guess is that she's keeping the kids away because it's the only thing she feels in control of right now. She thinks no one cares about her feelings (wrongly, I assume), but she guess (rightly) that people still care about the kids - so that's her only bargaining chip. Don't play into that game. Validate your wife, acknowledge how upset she is, and work on a solution that allows her feelings to be okay.

p.s. She threw your stuff around because you 'abandoned' her when she was crying/upset. I know that's what she asked for. I know that's what a normal person (i.e. you) would, and probably should, do. I also know that a pwBPD will usually see this as rejection and invalidation of her feelings. It's confusing and frustrating (to say the least)! And there's a fine line between trying not to fix everything and accidentally invalidating.

Those are just my thoughts - I'm sure you'll get great advice here from people with more experience than I have too!

[yeeter]

Arabella gives some great inputs.  Validate validate validate.  Try to understand her feelings.

At the same time, I would still go.  Your grandmother only has one 80th birthday party, and not an infinite number of years left.  To make the choice of missing it, to feed your wifes emotional insecurities, is a big price.  (I certainly have made this decision many times myself, so in some ways feel hypocritical even making this advice)

The black hole analogy rings here:

Imagine walking into your backyard one day and discovering a deep hole in the ground--so deep you can't see the bottom.  The hole looks dark and menacing.  You really, really don't like this hole in your yard.  You decide the answer is to fill it up.  

So, you go into your garage and see an old bike.  You think, I used to like this old bike, but I don't mind losing it if it takes care of that hole.  So you throw your bike into the hole, where it vanishes without a trace.  But the hole is still there.  So, you go get all of your old favorite books from the house, and toss them in too.  They disappear, but the hole remains.  Soon, your DVD collection, computer games, musical instruments, and all the "frivolous" things in your house go down that hole, but nothing helps, the hole is as deep as ever.  Increasingly distressed, you can start to toss more important things down the hole too.  Work tools, money, foods, and, eventually, friends and family members, all vanish down that hole.

Eventually, all you have is an empty, lonely house with a big hole still in the back yard.

The day you decide to stop trying to fill that hole with important things from your life is the day you have decided to start taking care of yourself.    

My point is that giving up your hobbies, passions, work and relationships will not "change" your partner or fill the emotional hole in them. You really, really can't "make" them be happy or whole or anything else.

[smiley gladhands]

thats a good, and frightening analogy.

My concern is that if i go to this party, i have to be prepared to have her try to lock me out of the house, etc. and potentially have her separate. I'm not sure if shes blowing smoke or serious, it feels like its impossible to tell whats a real threat vs whats BS just trying to manipulate me.

[arabella]

I would suggest not just going to the birthday party and to heck with the consequences. I don't think that's what yeeter was getting at... .  Sure, go to the party BUT make sure your wife understands why you are going and how you feel about her well in advance. You need to sort this situation out, not just take off. No, you can't fill the hole, but you can put up a fence around that sucker. Is your wife going to be upset? Probably. But at least validate her concerns so that she knows you're going to the party for your grandmother and for you and NOT because you are rejecting her or her feelings on the matter.

I don't really see your wife's threats as either "blowing smoke" or being "serious" - I think they can be both. She is very upset and she is trying to get you to acknowledge how she feels. She is using the only method she can fathom in order to get your attention. She's completely serious and feels terrible and is hurting very badly. That doesn't mean she wants a divorce, it means that she equate her level of upset to 'divorce level' and she's trying to convey that. It's not manipulation so much as desperation. She really wants you to understand, she's not doing this on purpose, she just isn't good at explaining. If you don't respond by validating/understanding, she feels like you don't 'connect' and you aren't supporting her - and those types of feelings can indeed lead to separation/divorce. So my answer would be: it's complicated. 

[yeeter]

It is complicated.  (certainly feels that way in the moment too). 

It's also entirely possible you would get locked out and a divorce initiated if you go.  (sorry, but it's is possible)

And if you don't go, you are missing out on an important event in your life.  There will most likely be more of these. And it's not sustainable to buckle very time she is feeling anxious or insecure or having an emotional reaction.  If not this time, there will be a next. 

Can you arrange for someone else to be with her while you are gone?  Of arrange for her to go out with a friend to the spa.  Let her know you are thinkingmof her, are not abandoning, and most importantly you WILL be back. 

Maybe it's too much.  But sooner or later there has to come a turning point where you have a life to live as well. 

Let's hear others perspectives.

[smiley gladhands]

any advice on how to deal with "projection"?

i found out today my wife has told my parents that I was the one that wouldnt let things go in the fight with the argument with my sister in law... .  which is a complete lie, its HER (my wife) thats causing all this trouble!

Additionally, she has told my parents that if we were to go, she believes my sister-in-law would make a big scene. In reality SHe has said to me that if we DID go, she would curse out my SIL, call her a whore, and all this other nonsense (i.e., my WIFE would be the one making the scene)

Do they even realize they are projecting? whats the best way to confront them about it?

[arabella]

No, they generally don't realize they're projecting. What do you hope to gain in confronting her? I don't see that going well. Nevermind the projection issue for a moment - what do you want to see happen here? What outcome are you seeking?

[smiley gladhands]

you are right, there probably is not much to gain by arguing with her about it. Its just so maddingly frustrating!

[arabella]

Its just so maddingly frustrating!

^ understatement! Crazy making, isn't it? *sigh*

[moonunit]

I think Arabella has given you lots of good advice and insight. I agree with Yeeter that you should go, not only for yourself but for your grandmother too!

If you give in to her demand, i think it sets a scary presidence. I know what i speak of, i too am caught in the same type of situation, and it too deals with my SIL. I am trying to learn how to deal with it better too through reading the Lessons.

I wish you good luck and wish your Grandmother a Happy 80th Birthday wish   

[smiley gladhands]

well, the party was this weekend and i unfortunately did not attend. Last night out of the blue my wife started raging that if by the end of the summer my parents don't cut my brother and sister in law out of their lives, they are not allowed to see the children anymore.

I have told her absolutely not, and there is no way i will agree to any scenario under which my parents would not be allowed to see their grandchildren, and that i'm not about to cut my extended family out of my life. I further told her that i'm not guaranteeing her that i will never go to a family function again (for example, she would expect me not to attend my other brother's wedding, where i'd likely be best man, if my SIL is there).

She began saying then we should just get a divorce. I told her overall i think we have a good life together, and i didnt want a divorce, and sometimes we are just going to disagree about things. I also told her i understood and agreed with her emotions of being upset however i didnt agree with her response. I then drew a line and said i wasnt going to listen to constant divorce threats every time we have a disagreement, and told her she needs to think about what she wants, and if she really wants to divorce me over this, then go do it, but i'm not playing a game of constant divorce threats, and then left the room and went upstairs to go to sleep. She came and asked me to come downstairs, with a circular conversation that went nowhere. Apparently if i dont agree with her on every single issue, its a sign that i dont "appreciate all that she does".

I tried explaining to her that sometimes married couples disagree about thing, and that doesnt have to result in a divorce just because they disagree.

This morning i got silent treatment from her on commute from work, but whatever.

One thing i have been doing - in addition to keeping a journal to document things, i almost always have my iphone with me. I've begun recording these conversations (in NY you apparently only need 1 party to the conversation to consent to being recorded) - so i have the threats, the statements that she'll go to court and get full custody, and saying all these things about separating me and the children from the rest of my family recorded. I dont know how much of a difference it would make if it were to come to a separation, but it probably can't hurt. I want to get her on tape admitting she'd make up lies against me in the event of a divorce (she's already said she'd make it ugly) so i can have something to protect myself if need be.