Not strong enough...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm recycling again. Same day I said I was done with her, I got back after she said she would no long see, or talk to the other guy. Now she's telling me she still misses him. I tried by saying "I know what it's like to miss someone close. I'm sorry. I miss some of the friends I can no longer talk to." and then she said "Well those were your choice."

So I told her that this girl I knew was no different than the guy she cheated on me with. Difference is I didn't actually cheat with the girl. I told her I didn't want to be friends, because I knew that it would cause problems in my relationship. That the friendship was already soured by how things went (I told her that I wanted to have sex with her, the next day she asked me to come over.)

So my BPDSO started begging to see the guy again. I said no. I said I can't accept that because he's no friend of yours.  So on and so forth.

The argument continues, she takes tones with me, calls me f'ing stupid at points, tells me that me and this guy are the only people she has in her life (yeah, cuz he's SUCH a great friend.)

I can't get out of this relationship. I'm sad, I feel alone, I feel disrespected and this is taking up my entire life. I want to say that I can't take it anymore, but I'm still taking it.

I'm not strong enough to walk away. She reels me in every time, and I can't stop. I'm utterly beaten, there's nothing I can do.

[Vatz]

I'm recycling again. Same day I said I was done with her, I got back after she said she would no long see, or talk to the other guy. Now she's telling me she still misses him. I tried by saying "I know what it's like to miss someone close. I'm sorry. I miss some of the friends I can no longer talk to." and then she said "Well those were your choice."

So I told her that this girl I knew was no different than the guy she cheated on me with. Difference is I didn't actually cheat with the girl. I told her I didn't want to be friends, because I knew that it would cause problems in my relationship. That the friendship was already soured by how things went (I told her that I wanted to have sex with her, the next day she asked me to come over.)

So my BPDSO started begging to see the guy again. I said no. I said I can't accept that because he's no friend of yours.  So on and so forth.

The argument continues, she takes tones with me, calls me f'ing stupid at points, tells me that me and this guy are the only people she has in her life (yeah, cuz he's SUCH a great friend.)

I can't get out of this relationship. I'm sad, I feel alone, I feel disrespected and this is taking up my entire life. I want to say that I can't take it anymore, but I'm still taking it.

I'm not strong enough to walk away. She reels me in every time, and I can't stop. I'm utterly beaten, there's nothing I can do.

[paperlung]

Dude, trust me. She's not gonna stop talking to that other guy. I was in a similar situation as you; a love triangle. Except the other guy lived across the globe and was twice my age. He and I were the only two people in her life she said, too. I got sick and tired of it and realized she wasn't worth fighting over and bailed. Now she's fallen for some other guy who lives in another country as well. Just a total gong show, man.

Change your number! Delete your email address! Block her on Facebook! Make sure she can't contact you. Why be with someone who only sees you as an option?

[Vatz]

I can't seem to do any of that. Every time she comes calling, texting or whatever, I can't help but respond and fall for it.

[BradyK]

Hi Vatz -- why can't you walk away? I ask this in complete seriousness. I completely understand it is very difficult and heartbreaking, but do you really believe it is not possible to end it? Literally impossible? Why? What would happen if you did? Is it that you truly can't leave or you choose not to?

It sounds REALLY terrible, what you are going through. Why would you choose to stay, if you are choosing that?

I know for me, I chose to stay in my r/s longer than I should have because I thought no one else would ever love me.  (What?)  In fact, he was not treating me well, at the end, so he wasn't loving me either. I really struggle with why I did not walk away sooner. It haunts me. Like you, I felt I could not.

[Vatz]

@Brady

I don't really see anyone loving me either. But more than that, I don't really know what any other kind of relationship is like. On some level I feel I deserve it. Sort of like the weak deserve to be exploited, while the strong can have what they want. Other people can sleep with my spouse because they are better than me, I am too unattractive/weak/dumb/poor to keep my significant other faithful to me. My spouse can yell at me, call me names because she knows that I can't go anywhere else, so who cares if my feelings are hurt? They don't matter. This is the nature of relationships because this is what life is. Nature doesn't care for feelings, respect and dignity. It only cares for strength and any specimen too weak doesn't live, any specimen to unattractive doesn't mate, etc. This is where I feel I am. I can't walk away because I don't see future relationships being any better than this.

[BradyK]

Vatz--

Do YOU care if your feelings are hurt? Do YOU think you matter? If so, you will be fine, eventually. Get on your own team. 

I know in my case, my ex treated me like I did not matter, toward the end of our r/s. I began to feel like I did not matter. Then I realized I did matter -- at least to me, if to no one else -- and I walked away.

I had the benefit of having had good relationships before, and also the experience of having been happy on my own as a single person before. So, I knew it was possible. And I was only in that BPD r/s for 6 months. Amazing that it wrought so much havoc on me and my life in that short time! But, I realize now, a year later, it took me down only because I allowed it to.

Perhaps you can get some help from friends and/or a therapist? I did. It really helped. I am not an expert on your situation or what you should do. I only offer this as an idea, based on my experience, in hopes it can be helpful.

[Vatz]

I don't know what I'm going to do.

Our relationship is falling apart. I had hoped for so much with this person. I so badly wanted to someday get married, get a dog, and just live out our days laughing... .

But it's all coming apart.

We talked about being together, we talked about all the things we would do. Every wonderful thing. It kills me to see all that time, all those feelings, all those laughs, smiles, hugs, and everything... . it's all of that wasn't enough. I know I've been distant since last year, but what was I to do? I still tried to be affectionate, romantic, and I tried to show sympathy, I tried to be supportive and caring. I did everything I could to not jam her indiscretions down her throat. Of course I had self-esteem problems and of course I would bring that up often, but I hadn't gotten over what had happened. Now there's this. Another affair, another person. Another person she refuses to let go of because he's the only other person she has. She complains that she barely has me, and what about me? I barely have her, too!

Now I'm looking at everything and I can see just how dysfunctional it all is, how it's all just crumbling right in front of me. All I can do is watch while my days are ruined. But worse still, any other woman I look at I can't even be attracted to. I am literally unable to find any other woman attractive. My SO is all I have, and even then it seems I don't really.

... . I hate my life... .

[laelle]

Vatz, please listen to me.  I understand what your going through.  Only a few short weeks ago I was telling friends "if i could only let go of him",

"I need some sort of exorcist to do this"  You dont.

Here is the truth... .  Your partner is ill, and you cant fix her.  Loving her until you destroy you, it still wont fix her, but will destroy you.

You must make a decision... . you or her.   To be able to make this decision when alot of us are givers or want to be the hero, its difficult.

She is asking you to be in a relationship with her where your needs will not be respected. She does not care about your needs unless she hopes to gain something out of it. She will manipulate, confuse and devalue and rage at you.

This relationship, regardless of how much time, money, love, effort you put into it... . It will always come out at 0

If you were an investor and you kept investing into a stock that always crashed leaving you penniless, would you keep investing in it?

She seems to be the type that wont go away easily, and I really empathize with you on that.  Tell her no, your not doing it anymore.

Dont respond to anything else she says.  Once they get your JADEing its hard for you not to get sucked right back in.

Dont do it.  No, I am not doing this anymore.  Leave and dont look back.  The storybook ending she tried to sell you isnt real, and you have first hand knowledge of how it really ends.  It wont ever change.



I did the work, learned about the disease, tried to make it work knowing about the disease... . I did everything short of giving him the shirt off my back, and it still ends the same.  Its a time, energy and love sink.  


BTW, you have to be strong enough, its for YOU that you are fighting for.  YOU are worth it! 

[Vatz]

Every other day, she mentions him. She talks about how she misses her best friend. How she is being forced to choose between her best friend and her boyfriend.

Even when she made the "choice" she still talks about him like she still hasn't totally decided. She rationalizes how even though what she did was wrong, it doesn't mean she and him can't be just friends. I told her time and time again that it doesn't work that way. I don't want this other person in my life, even if I never meet him again, he still is part of my life and he ain't any kind of friend to me.

Today she texted me about how she finds it so difficult to choose. I just sighed, I didn't really even get angry, sad or upset. I called her and said again that I'm not putting up with this. That this has gone on way too long and I don't want this drama. Her response? "I don't want to choose between my boyfriend and my best friend." and I said "Anything to dodge responsibility for your actions. It doesn't matter, we're done. When you find a place, just text me and I'll give you your stuff back."

I told her goodbye and she said "I love you." Those words have become POISON to me. Every time she says them, I keep running back. I didn't, but I'm afraid when she (Inevitably) calls me again I won't have the strength to say "no."  I'm scared I'll just get roped in again and that I won't be able to walk away. But every time I come back it gets worse. "I love you" has become so fake, but at the same time I keep wanting to believe it SO VERY BADLY. It hurts. But whenever I tell her I'm breaking up with her, I feel good the first few hours. I actually feel good. I start to miss her after a time though and it eats away at me... .  

[marbleloser]

"and she said "I love you."

Do her actions match her words,Vatz? Does this feel like love to you? That's something I had to remind myself and ask myself on occasion.When someone loves,the last thing they want to do is hurt the other person.

Our biggest downfall is that we don't love ourselves enough.Find love for yourself.The way to do that is to spend time alone,enjoying what YOU want to do.In time,you'll see the positive qualities you have,and can work on any negatives you see.

[Vatz]

Do her actions match her words,Vatz? Does this feel like love to you? That's something I had to remind myself and ask myself on occasion.When someone loves,the last thing they want to do is hurt the other person.

See, she says she doesn't want to hurt me. But then talks about how she doesn't want to hurt him either. Which makes no sense, if she didn't act inappropriately with him in the first place, she never would have hurt him. They'd have had a genuine platonic friendship, and no one would get hurt. But by kissing him, hugging him she was trying not to hurt him. Like if she DIDN'T do those inappropriate things, then he'd be hurt by it-wow... .   I just realized how messed up this other guy is too.

Not to mention how he never wanted to hang out with her if I was there. When they went to a wake, I was at her house. I wasn't allowed to come along because "nobody knew me." So what? She only met those people weeks before. I'm her significant other, who cares? What, she didn't want to hurt her fragile little friend? It would hurt him to see us together? Worst part is it was that day he "confessed his love" and begged her to leave me for him... .   while I was at her house waiting for her. So basically she left me alone at her house for hours to go to a wake with this other guy and HIS friends. I wasn't allowed to come. To tell you the truth, I think that's what sort of did it for me. This was before she physically cheated. But it was that day that I knew that she didn't actually love me.

She says she doesn't want to hurt me, but you're right. After a certain point, it just becomes like a child trying to dodge responsibility by saying "Well I didn't mean it, so I shouldn't be punished."

I guess I got tired of playing Mr. Policeman. Wagging my finger at her, telling her not only what she was doing was wrong, but explaining in detail as to WHY it's wrong. She says "I keep good company, if he's my friend it means he's a good person." As the late George Carlin once said

"You have to stand back, in AWE of the bull-s****."

Good person, my foot. Ugly both outside AND inside.

As for her, she's just... .   she's just a bad person. Mental illness or not, there's a line.

[Vatz]

So a day went by since I told her that I had to end this relationship... .  

I miss her terribly. I really do, but at the same time I dread the possibility of her texting or calling me. It scares the hell out of me.

I am frightened as all hell that she'll call. That I'll cave if she starts talking. Or worse yet, that she'll tell me things I really don't want to hear.

I want her back, but I know that it can't work.

On the one hand, I know she's aware of her problem, and someday she might fix it. I love her dearly, and if she does recover, get herself in order I will feel like I made a huge mistake walking away. You know, like dumping that girl in high school who turns out to be both successful AND hot someday. It seems shallow but I feel like I'm walking away on something that may one day turn out amazing.

But I know deep down, as it stands right now she isn't going to change much. By the time she recovers, who knows when that will be? As much as it hurts, as much as I WANT her back, I am aware that the abuse, confusion and nonsense will just continue. Her lack of accountability and blame-shifting... .   that and the things she has done... .   I don't think I could ever forgive.

[mango_flower]

You don't know how strong you are... .  

Sometimes you have no choice (like if she left).  Some of us here have had no choice... .   and we're still here.  It's soul destroying, crushing, and I've never felt pain like it.  But I'm slowly getting there.

Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you want to just go upwards.  Maybe you just haven't hit rock bottom yet.  And when you do, we will be here for you x

[BradyK]

Vatz -- if you know that her communication with you will hurt you, you can block your number and email. This may give you the breathing room you need to relax, get some perspective, and start to heal. Re-read Paperlung's post to you above. It is tough -- believe me I know -- but it sounds like you are doing what needs to be done. Keep moving forward, and don't allow yourself to be dragged backward. It's up to you to act in your own best interest. She won't.

"I am aware that the abuse, confusion and nonsense will just continue". Realizing this is a big step. She is not that "amazing" girl from high school! You cannot turn her into that. That is a fantasy. Stay in reality. Stay with what you know for sure, and stop speculating about her future potential, which may or may not ever happen, and which you have no control over. You do, however, have control over you and your own happiness.

[Vatz]

@Mango: I DID hit bottom. It's bottom for me at least.

@Brady: You have a really good point. I can't, unfortunately, totally block her because I still have her stuff. I can't return it until she finds a place to move in. She's between residences. I get the feeling my replacement will be there to help her haul it all in. That little s*** will probably be smirking in his head.

But I feel like I really did hit bottom. It was the day I agreed to let her go to that wake without me. I didn't want to agree to it. The second she got in the car, she kissed him. I saw it. I knew it was over on some level or another. No matter how long we would have been together, the relationship as I knew it was gone. Maybe that was the day I fell out of love with her. I loved her, but wasn't really in love since then.

I feel like it was bottom because when I looked back at my life it finally hit me where I was. All the 25 years of my lifespan thus far, led to THAT particular moment. You know?

For two years I haven't been able to keep to my work-out regimen. It isn't her fault, it's mine. I was so depressed, I was so worried about what to say to her, what to do, how to deal with her. Basically, I had nothing else on my mind but her.

For the last year and a half I've hated myself, I've felt like I was in constant competition with other men over her. All I could think about is pleasing her, proving my worth as a partner (sexually, mostly.) If she strayed it and came back, it meant the others weren't as good as me. That I was better, that I had earned affection.

I know now that, even though it's healthy to want to perform, it's not healthy if that is ALL one thinks about. I guess part of the reason I broke it off was because the cheating wasn't the only problem. Even if it was I should have walked. But it was just another issue along with so many others. The raging, the sarcasm, the insults, a few times even laughing in my face, which she always tried to explain away, but there's no explaining that way. Doesn't matter what kind of state of mind she was in, it was hurtful. It's not like she REALLY took the time to change. She said "I'm trying" but that was just her way of making me feel guilty for trying to hold her accountable. How dare I criticize her behavior when she is CLEARLY trying not to yell, curse at and abuse me? "I'm trying so hard not to be abusive." Eventually the words fell flat. They stopped meaning anything.

I've become such a wreck. I've been short with my parents, my niece, and I haven't been able to properly socialize with anyone because I was never in any mood to because all I could think about was competing with all those other guys who I've never met (except one.)

I have a lot to answer for.

[Bub]

Vatz, you're hitting home brother.  We cash it all in hoping for the good to overpower the bad. We give it all until two things are both finally present: we realize we're losing ourselves and there is no more hope.  Then all we can do is run, and try like hell not to look back at the one we love, and the dream we loved even more.

[BradyK]

Vatz -- you could ship her stuff to her parents. Put it in a mutual friend's garage. Put it in a rental storage place and send her the bill. Tell her she has 72 hours to move it out and let her figure it out.  Her stuff is her problem and her responsibility, not yours. She is a grown woman.

I have no idea if any of what I suggest here is do-able or realistic, or if she's paying part of the the rent/mortgage on your place or whatever.  But you are allowed to take control of your life. I get that you need to communicate on this. But does it have to be all on her terms?