Child Custody: If you knew then, what you know now. . .

[Veronica2001]

Thanks for checking in, catnap.

The latest:  there were many changes that needed to be made to the petition for custody.  My son's attorney was out of town this week, so it will not be submitted until Monday.  In hindsight, maybe we spent too much time on this. 

Today, my son received a petition for custody from his ex.  She's asking for primary physical custody and joint legal custody.  It probably explains why they've been so nice and helpful lately.  She shut down her social media and has really cleaned up her act in the last couple of weeks. 

Will it matter that she submitted her claim first?  I'm freaking out a little bit.  She doesn't have an attorney, submitted her petition herself, and only stated that she is the child's mother and lives close to daycare and schools as reasons for her request. 

There were a couple of issues this week that upset her but she maintained her composure (for her anyway). 

We've had the baby quite a bit b/c of her work schedule so he's gaining ground w/overnights. 

[livednlearned]

Thanks for checking in, catnap.

The latest:  there were many changes that needed to be made to the petition for custody.  My son's attorney was out of town this week, so it will not be submitted until Monday.  In hindsight, maybe we spent too much time on this. 

Today, my son received a petition for custody from his ex.  She's asking for primary physical custody and joint legal custody.  It probably explains why they've been so nice and helpful lately.  She shut down her social media and has really cleaned up her act in the last couple of weeks. 

Will it matter that she submitted her claim first?  I'm freaking out a little bit.  She doesn't have an attorney, submitted her petition herself, and only stated that she is the child's mother and lives close to daycare and schools as reasons for her request. 

There were a couple of issues this week that upset her but she maintained her composure (for her anyway). 

We've had the baby quite a bit b/c of her work schedule so he's gaining ground w/overnights. 

Do you know if she filed the Petition with the court? I think if she had a lawyer, then the petition would have to be properly noticed. If she is representing herself, the court might do it for her. If she properly filed the complaint, then usually there is a set period of time for you to respond.

As far as I can tell, the only advantage to filing first is that you set the pace. Fortunately, (and assuming she has filed correctly), you have been working on this and are prepared, so you aren't taken off guard and scrambling to catch up.

Being the defendant in a custody case isn't the same as a criminal case -- in custody cases, it just means she filed first. I don't believe it has much bearing on anything other than starting the clock.

[catnap]

I really do not think that her filing first is a big deal.  One thing that really may have helped my son's case was that his ex did not have an attorney though asked several times before the case started if she wanted a delay to obtain one.  She was apparently confident she could win because she was the mother and could sway the Judge with her lies. 

Did the petition come with a court date?

[Veronica2001]

Yes, the petition came with a date and family court must have filed it for her.  It looks like someone added some information to her reason for filing--maybe her dad?  The handwriting is different.  The date for CS is July 15th and for custody/visitation July 31st. 

There is a section for her to fill out regarding paternity which she did not complete.  If there was an acknowledgement of paternity signed, she was supposed to attach a copy.  She left it all blank. The court must think that paternity hasn't been established b/c they included information on DNA testing.  She texted my son today, saying she was right when she told him the paper at the hospital didn't mean anything and they'd be doing a paternity test.  I think she really believes this but I also think she may just be trying to engage him, guessing he received the paperwork.  He knows better and he didn't respond. 

I'm not sure that she can afford an attorney but she may not qualify for legal assistance either.  We'll see what happens when she finds out my son has an attorney.  I wouldn't be surprised if she also felt she could persuade a judge, though she'll see all of the problems she has caused in the petition and that might scare her. 

I didn't see anything in the paperwork that suggested a response from him but I'll look it over again.  Yes, I'm very happy we are prepared for this!  I'm glad to know it probably won't make much difference who files first.  All of the attorney meetings are documented too, so if they go to a hearing, it can be established that he was pursuing legal counsel a while ago.

Thank you for the input! 

[catnap]

We secretly did a DNA test when the baby was a few weeks old.  I believe it was $400, which was more expensive, but would hold up in court.  Son wanted that to know he was the child's father and in the event she pulled "you are not the father" card.  Plus, on his L's instruction he filed for an amended birth certificate naming him as the father. 

I do not know what the rules are where you live, but she will either come with an attorney or waive a delay of the hearing to get an attorney (do not know if that will be allowed since she filed the petition). 

The fact that she filed first may actually strengthen your case since she will not have had time to try and think of how to "spin" certain things in your petition. 

Am very interested in what your attorney has to say once you are able to contact her.

[Veronica2001]

Yes, everyone told my son to get a paternity test done too but he never felt the need to do that--although we never considered the possibility that his ex could deny he is the father.  Sounds like your son covered all his bases and it paid off. 

From what I understand, in my son's case, paternity was established when he signed what is called an "acknowledgement of paternity" in our state.  It establishes equal rights as a parent.  His name is on the birth certificate and his D has our last name too.  Maybe for CS and custody purposes, paternity needs to be verified?   

I'm anxious for him to talk to his L too.  There's wisdom in waiting to open court papers when you know your L is available!  I forgot that little piece of advice. 

And I was thinking exactly the same thing--that maybe this will work in his favor since she didn't list any concerns about my son's parenting in her petition.  Anything after the fact may seem disingenuous. 

Will update tomorrow! 

[ForeverDad]

Son wanted that to know he was the child's father and in the event she pulled "you are not the father" card.

Strange as it may seem, this claim does happen.  In such cases it means the mother is saying another man was the father, in other words, she was intimate with multiple men in that time frame.  Not a badge of honor, one would think.

At least the mother didn't allege that in v2001's case.

[Veronica2001]

Yesterday, my son sent his ex a text to give her some warning about his petition~ she may receive it as early as today.  Within minutes, my husband and I got phone calls from her father.  He was livid.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. 

I responded to his voicemail through text, keeping it brief and to the point.  He lashed out through texts and had a complete knee-jerk reaction, made many assumptions, and attacked me personally.  I don't think I've ever been treated like this in my entire life.  I decided to try the good cop/bad cop scenario as my husband had no intention of responding to his call.  Her father does seem to calm down when I validate his feelings, so I hope that's a good sign of at least some stability.  I'm always so grateful that we know what to expect~it makes it a little easier to take it all in. 

The last obstacle is their reaction to the petition details.  I'm not sure if it was beneficial to his ex to give her some warning or not.  But we had good intentions.

I'll start another thread as we head into the next stage.  I have more questions and you all have been SO helpful.

[ForeverDad]

Today, my son received a petition for custody from his ex.  She's asking for primary physical custody and joint legal custody.  It probably explains why they've been so nice and helpful lately.  She shut down her social media and has really cleaned up her act in the last couple of weeks.

Predictable.  But it was unreasonable of her family to expect no response or a passive response.  She's mother, she can ask for custody.  He's father, he can ask for custody too.

[livednlearned]

Yesterday, my son sent his ex a text to give her some warning about his petition~ she may receive it as early as today.  Within minutes, my husband and I got phone calls from her father.  He was livid.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. 

I responded to his voicemail through text, keeping it brief and to the point.  He lashed out through texts and had a complete knee-jerk reaction, made many assumptions, and attacked me personally.  I don't think I've ever been treated like this in my entire life. 

This sounds like an extinction burst. After trampling your boundaries and having things their way, you asserted a boundary. Boundaries feel like a personal attack to BPD sufferers. How dare you say no!

If the dad is a narcissist, he is going to have his own horse in this race. He might have a hard time distinguishing the difference between his own custody battle and this one, which can be good and bad. Bad because he will be very invested in winning, and good because he will think you are dumber than a stump. He already won custody once, he can do it again, blah blah blah. That doesn't usually make for a winning strategy.

He might also become very manipulative and try to good cop you right back, so watch for that. "Let's do what's right for GD, the kids need our help. My daughter has issues and things will be so much better if we tell her she gets full custody but then in reality we see to it that your son gets his time." That kind of thing.

[Veronica2001]

Phase One of the custody process is finally complete.  I'm so very relieved.  S's exgf received the petition yesterday and I was barraged with texts from her father, who apparently read the petition while she was at work, and later in the day from his ex. 

The texts expressed all kinds of emotions ~ anywhere from outrage (LnL~you were right on target~her father actually used the phrase "how dare you?" to invoking sympathy ("they're still learning, these things shouldn't be held over their heads" and "I'm hurt by this after all we've done to try to help the kids" to attacks ("how could you be so horrible to the mother of your granddaughter?" to threats of retaliation, false accusations, apologies, sarcasm and guilt trips.  It was stated several times that I have been lying.  You name it, I got it.  My son also received several texts from his ex but there's no mistake that our family as a whole is considered to be the enemy.

It really is remarkable how predictable the behaviors and reactions are, as you stated, FD.

I'm still trying to gain a sense of her father's mental health as he is very influential with his D and I do see some narcissistic qualities.  He must have mentioned the fact that my son submitted his own petition 5 times.  It really irked him.  It's been interesting to observe the fact that they take no responsibility for any of the problems.  Her father seems to see himself as the reasonable one, always trying to "teach his D how to handle a separated family".  His memory is selective and he has forgotten his threats of calling the police, making demands, etc.  He feels I betrayed him.   His own history is a little complex.  Though he gained custody of his D (ex-wife went to jail for abuse), his second marriage resulted in divorce and he only saw his son every other weekend and one day during the week.  His son recently moved w/his mother out of state.  Not sure of the details w/that situation.  He and my son's ex have suffered some loss recently.

His D said she wants no more contact with me (though she sent several texts after saying goodbye) and that she did the right thing by not bringing up any of my son's bad behavior and we didn't.  I agree that these interactions sound like extinction bursts and I'm grateful you brought that to my attention, LnL.

I think it was the right move to follow Bill Eddy's advice and give them some warning about the upcoming papers (in our case, anyway).  While it didn't prevent the backlash, they had a few days to process the fact that there would be a petition before reading all of the reasons that supported the petition.  I think it's good advice.  In receiving the news about the petition and reading the petition, the baby was with us.  I think that was a good thing too.   

Thanks to all of you who have offered sound advice, support, feedback and have followed our situation.  You all are AMAZING.  I have very few regrets, if any, about how we handled the initiation of court proceedings because of this wonderful community.  xoxo

[heartandwhole]

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