Hard Day Cont'd 8...

[MaroonLiquid]

I agree with you.  My wife just texted me on my daughters birthday asking me for money to pay off an installment charge on our daughters phone line so that she could upgrade her phone.  So let me see... .you can't text back regarding my nephews diagnosis, or to wish our daughter a happy birthday, but you can ask me for money when she owes me over $800 dollars.  Right... . I am not responding and getting involved in that!  I sent her the email with what she owes me broken down that she never responded to.  when I have my kids over, she has to "create" an issue to get me involved in her turmoil.  There is definitely an "order to the disorder".  Am I handling this right by not responding?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Choice one: Ignore the request.

Choice two: Politely and firmly decline the request.

Choice three: Throw money at her whenever she demands it, hoping it will bring her back 

Pick the one that best fits your values, or is likely to create the least drama.

[Grey Kitty]

Whups, I got snarky with choice three, didn't I?

Also:

Choice four: Take this as a hint that a new phone would be a great birthday present for the daughter, and give it to your daughter from yourself... .instead of giving the money to your wife and letting her take credit for it!

[formflier]

Choice one: Ignore the request.

Choice two: Politely and firmly decline the request.

Choice three: Throw money at her whenever she demands it, hoping it will bring her back 

Pick the one that best fits your values, or is likely to create the least drama.

Choice 5:  Respond... .let her know you are considering it... .ask when a good time would be to get together and discuss birthday plans


My take... ignoring is bad... .that is playing her game.  You need to lead with good behavior.

two

four

five seem ok to me... .and seem like good... .healthy choices.

Remember... .you are setting a precedent.  try not to bounce around with erratic choices

[Grey Kitty]

Choice 5:  Respond... .let her know you are considering it... .ask when a good time would be to get together and discuss birthday plans

Unless you think you will give her the money, don't use the possibility as a carrot to get her to talk to you. (Didn't you try that earlier with poor results?)

Being even a little deceptive isn't leading with good behavior.

[MaroonLiquid]

Here was my response...

That is no small amount to come up with especially at Christmas.  I am definitely willing to discuss this and compromise with you as to what's fair for the both of us.  I am committed to working through this stuff because I know it's important to you.  I also want our daughters to have what they want for Christmas.

No response yet... .

[MaroonLiquid]

Her response... .

Forget the money. I'll work something out. I have a bigger problem. My mom and I just got in a fight and I've sent her to my sister's. Are you still off Wednesday that you could take me to surgery?  If not it's ok, I just need to know soon so I can work something else out.

My response...

I know how much your mom means to you and will pray.  Of course I will take you to your surgery.  I still planned to.

Her response... .

Thank you!

My response... .

You're welcome!

Being even keel works.  Obviously something blew up and it would have to be pretty bad to send her mom to her sisters.  Not mine to worry about. 

[Grey Kitty]

  You are doing great.

Her blow up with her mom is not your problem... .but something you can continue to validate if she tells you more about it.

One other thought for you to chew on... .do stand strong about giving her more money. You've got that one down... .and think about what you can give to her kids, which will help them... .how to keep your own head clear about the border between these two things.

[MaroonLiquid]

You are doing great.

Her blow up with her mom is not your problem... .but something you can continue to validate if she tells you more about it.

One other thought for you to chew on... .do stand strong about giving her more money. You've got that one down... .and think about what you can give to her kids, which will help them... .how to keep your own head clear about the border between these two things.

I did respond and told her that even though I don't know what happened, I know it had to be hard on her to make that decision.  I also told her I was here if she wanted someone to just listen.  No response, and didn't really need one.  

I will stand strong regarding money.  I think she was using that to "test the waters".  I'm learning to not respond right away and think about my response, especially over text.

[formflier]

Couple things... .

I think your text back was appropriate.

One small nuance... .more parenting... .

I would stay away from saying "get people what they want... ."... .focus on "get them what is appropriate".

Figuring out what is appropriate usually takes discussion... .discussion is better done in person.

Also good language for your wife to hear... .that people don't always get what they want... .

I wouldn't focus on that point... .just be aware... .

[MaroonLiquid]

Couple things... .

I think your text back was appropriate.

One small nuance... .more parenting... .

I would stay away from saying "get people what they want... ."... .focus on "get them what is appropriate".

Figuring out what is appropriate usually takes discussion... .discussion is better done in person.

Also good language for your wife to hear... .that people don't always get what they want... .

I wouldn't focus on that point... .just be aware... .

That is a good point formflier... .

    Update:  After I sent her the text that told her I was her if she needed me to just listen, we started texting back and forth that day.  She had to pick up our oldest daughter at a concert and on the way there got stuck in traffic.  She called me and said, "Hey, I know lately it seems I only call you when I need something."  I said, ":)on't let that bother you.  What do you need?"  She asked if I could pick up our oldest son from work and stay with him at McDonalds till she got there as she didn't want him having to deal with the situation with her mom alone."  I told her I would and did.  While we were waiting for her, she called and we decided to get the younger girls together and dropped them off at "open gym" at a gymnastics venue.  We took our oldest daughter, our youngest son and our daughter's friend to eat and then Christmas shopping and spent the evening together.  I validated as much as I could.  She was talking to her sister on the phone while we were eating and she was painting her mom black after their fight.  Her mom told her, "You couldn't make it without me."  That is what hurt my wife.  I did validate how that is hard to hear especially from our parents.  What I didn't say was, that unfortunately it is partly true (she has to have someone help her and her mom has helped her a lot in her life).  She was crying while talking to her sister and telling her sister how she thinks her mom isn't "well" mentally.     I'm starting to better understand how this disorder works in times like this.  Anyway, we had a very good evening together.

    Yesterday, I went over and cooked lunch for the whole family and then watched football.  She was supposed to go over to some friends of hers (the same people I saw at a store the other night where I could tell they felt awkward) and celebrate Christmas like she/we have done every year.  She decided not to go because she was "feeling bad".  I think it was more than that obviously.  She could have not wanted to face what she has told them and it be completely different than they way I have shown myself and make her feel worse about herself.  I am not worried about it honestly.  She asked if we could go and get some shopping done since she won't be able to after Tuesday.  I said sure and then dropped the kids off with my ex-wife.  My wife and I went to the mall and did some more Christmas shopping just the two of us.  We are going to do some more this evening and then tomorrow get everything ready for her surgery on Wednesday.  I am going to stay with her for a couple of days to make sure things are running smoothly with the kids and stuff.  She is worried about Christmas with her family and us getting together Christmas day also.  We talked about getting together Christmas day (opening gifts together and going to see a movie) and then she remembered she is supposed to be having her family down for Christmas and having the same plans with them Christmas day.  I could see her feeling "anxiety" about that and I told her that her plans with her family were made already and to honor that first.  I told her I would be at my sisters and she said that with the situation with her mom, she isn't sure what is going to happen.  I told her that lets focus on today and we will figure out "tomorrow", tomorrow.  I told her seeing her that day was a priority for me and would happen when she was able.  She was happy with that.  All in all, it was a very good weekend.  She was very affectionate all weekend and told me she loved me and how much she appreciated me being there for her.  She enjoyed seeing the kids and they enjoyed seeing her too and told them how much she loved them.  They have missed her a ton.  Last night, I sat down with our daughter and helped her study for her Spanish test and my wife sat there and just looked at me and I dould tell she almost started to cry.   She mouthed the words, "Thank you.'  And I just winked at her and mouthed back, "You're welcome"  After the kids went to bed we laid down together and she fell asleep in my arms.  I fell asleep and got up this morning and went to my place and get dressed and came to work.  We have been texting this morning and she continues to tell me how much she appreciates me.  I'm thankful that things have turned and looking forward to making things better.  It's amazing that when you truly change, they realize they have to.  Since I put my foot down and told her that I wasn't going to be verbally abused almost a month ago (hung up on her twice after a warning each time), she hasn't raged outwardly since.  I'm thankful for that.  I know that until she starts getting help, I will need to stay vigilant with my actions and boundaries.  

[Grey Kitty]

  I'm so glad things are looking up for you, Maroon!

You have done a lot to earn this--you have stuck to your values, boundaries, and been supportive and validating while she's thrown some really tough crap at you.

I also have to caution you just a little... .while a huge step forward, your wife will probably stumble and fall back a bit, now and again.

Enjoy it, love it, and treasure it. Try not to get too attached to it.

And most importantly... .don't let up on the good things you've been doing that made this possible!

[formflier]

And most importantly... .don't let up on the good things you've been doing that made this possible!

Yes... .reflect on that... .the "good times" are times to make sure you understand what you did to "get there"... .this will help you stick to your values and behaviors... .if you ever need to do that again.  Most likely you will... .most likely there will be a little bit of nuance there... .that might seem to try to get you off track... .

Stick to what has been working...

[MaroonLiquid]

 I'm so glad things are looking up for you, Maroon!

You have done a lot to earn this--you have stuck to your values, boundaries, and been supportive and validating while she's thrown some really tough crap at you.

I also have to caution you just a little... .while a huge step forward, your wife will probably stumble and fall back a bit, now and again.

Enjoy it, love it, and treasure it. Try not to get too attached to it.

And most importantly... .don't let up on the good things you've been doing that made this possible!

Thanks GK.  You and formflier have helped me so much.  It's from you guys that I know the pattern now and know how to handle it.  Before I found this site, I didn't.  I will continue to rely on you guys for support and be the same to y'all and others here.  Last night, my wife and I were having a conversation about her mom and the things she were saying described her to a "T".  I validated it and she said, "I realize that I'm so much like her."  She also told me she needs to be a better wife to me.  She also apologized for the way she has treated me.  She is making progress and for that I am grateful.  

And most importantly... .don't let up on the good things you've been doing that made this possible!

Yes... .reflect on that... .the "good times" are times to make sure you understand what you did to "get there"... .this will help you stick to your values and behaviors... .if you ever need to do that again.  Most likely you will... .most likely there will be a little bit of nuance there... .that might seem to try to get you off track... .

Stick to what has been working...

Formflier, I will definitely do that.  The good times are so good with her.  I know that until she gets therapy, there will be times that she will struggle with the negative behavior and I won't revert back to who I was or how I reacted.  It's true that when you change your behavior, they change theirs, one way or another.  Stability in emotions, boundaries and unconditional love has worked wonders for her.  I have had a hard time with unconditional love at times as I didn't want to be run over, but she came around.  Again, I'm grateful!  We still have a lot to work out with separate dwellings and we'll have to figure that out later.  One step at a time.

[Grey Kitty]

I know that until she gets therapy, there will be times that she will struggle with the negative behavior and I won't revert back to who I was or how I reacted.

Yes, you've got it.

If you are like me, you probably will revert back once or twice. Then dope-slap yourself, and get back on your game. And it will turn out fine in the end.

Further, there will be times where you see your own mind trying to run down that same old rut, behave that same old way, and it will take you twenty minutes or two hours, and perhaps time with your support team, and a huge effort to steer yourself UP and OVER the edge, and out of the rut.

You will then take a 30 second action which 'should' have been easy, and which feels completely right.

And look back at all it cost you to do it, and be astounded at both how much progress you made and how hard it really is.

[MaroonLiquid]

I know that until she gets therapy, there will be times that she will struggle with the negative behavior and I won't revert back to who I was or how I reacted.

Yes, you've got it.

If you are like me, you probably will revert back once or twice. Then dope-slap yourself, and get back on your game. And it will turn out fine in the end.

Further, there will be times where you see your own mind trying to run down that same old rut, behave that same old way, and it will take you twenty minutes or two hours, and perhaps time with your support team, and a huge effort to steer yourself UP and OVER the edge, and out of the rut.

You will then take a 30 second action which 'should' have been easy, and which feels completely right.

And look back at all it cost you to do it, and be astounded at both how much progress you made and how hard it really is.

You're probably right, and will stay vigilant in that.  We are human after all.

[MaroonLiquid]

So my wife just went in to surgery and blessed to be with her today as it looked a few days ago that I wasn't sure if this would happen.  Amazing how quick things can change.  Anyway, last night, my wife and I were out shopping and she got a call from her sister and they talked about the situation with their mom.  My sister informed her that their mom is refusing to come back down for Christmas and her sister will have to stay with their mom at her house due to that.  She got off the phone and was obviously upset.  I went to hold her hand and she said, "Please don't.  I don't want to be comforted"  I said, "Ok, I understand.  I won't take offense to that and give you your space."  In the past, that would have made me feel bad so I was proud of myself for handling it that way and saying that.  She sat there quietly and I said, "Honey, I know you're hurting and the situation sucks.  We are going to have a good Christmas in spite of the circumstances with your family."  She responded with, "My Christmas is ruined.  My mom is a b-tch and has to ruin it for everyone.  F-ck them.  My kids are upset and they are always let down.  I'm just going to be alone and raise my kids and no longer let anyone hurt them"  I told her that I understand why she feels that way and having parents who pull this at times like this suck."  She said, "You don't have to be here for me after tomorrow, my kids and I can take care of everything on our own."  I told her that I will be there for her throughout her recovery.  She said, "In your previous email you told me I was a b___ so why do you think differently now?"  I told her I never said that in the email very calmly and she said, I really don't want to have to pull it out and read it.  After surgery tomorrow, you can just go your own way."  I said very calmly, "Honey, I know you are hurting.  Your dHurt that your family Christmas plans are broken.  Your sister not coming down here is disappointing to you and I can't change what she does.  She has choice."  She said, "Yes!  She does!  And she can't just tell my mom, I'm going with or without you to the plans we made."  I said, "That sucks, and unfortunately hurts you which I can't change.  I'm not going to abandon you tomorrow or any other time.  I am committed to being here for you through your surgery, recovery and the for the kids and we will have a great Christmas regardless of what your family decides to do.  I love you!"  She IMMEDIATELY calmed down and said, "Thank you.  I really appreciate you being here for us."  We got out of the car and went in the house and it was like nothing happened.  It was amazing actually.  I have to admit that when you can SET their feelings at the beginning of an emotional dysregulation and watch them calm down and self soothe, it's pretty darn cool!  Thank God for that!

[formflier]

 

Good story... .thanks.

Now... step back and describe the "order to the disorder" that you just experienced.

Big theory stuff... .how did this play out... .

The challenge has been laid... .! 

[Grey Kitty]

    Validation works!