very confused about what to do

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi there,

Where to start... .my sister-in-law has what I believe to be BPD. I am actually a mental health professional but this is not a work issue, it's a personal one, so it's easy to lose perspective and I'm hoping some experienced people in this area might be able to offer insight that is in my blind spot as I'm too close to it to be objective.

My brother has been married to her for only a few months and their marriage is in a shambles. So is my brother. He is desperately trying to make the relationship work and marriage counselling didn't help much. I am trying to just be as loving and supportive as possible as he goes through this difficult time but I have not shared my opinion with him that she has BPD. I am worried that if I do he (or both of them) won't be ready to hear that and it will further distance me from them. I am one of the only supports he has and his wife unfortunately is usually not a big fan of mine despite repeated efforts on my part to have a relationship with her, it is of course sometimes very warm and then very cold shouldered for no reason that I can see. On the other hand, I feel like if it were me I would be relieved to have some kind of an explanation as to why my new wife was suddenly so angry much of the time, why she is never happy for any length of time, why the relationship is so volatile, and why it's always walking on eggshells with her. It also is information that could potentially offer them a fighting chance to make their marriage work... .something I can't see happening otherwise. Lastly I'm aware that it's not my business and not my relationship to become involved in fixing. Any insights or thoughts would be appreciated!

[tzt123]

Hi there,

Where to start... .my sister-in-law has what I believe to be BPD. I am actually a mental health professional but this is not a work issue, it's a personal one, so it's easy to lose perspective and I'm hoping some experienced people in this area might be able to offer insight that is in my blind spot as I'm too close to it to be objective.

My brother has been married to her for only a few months and their marriage is in a shambles. So is my brother. He is desperately trying to make the relationship work and marriage counselling didn't help much. I am trying to just be as loving and supportive as possible as he goes through this difficult time but I have not shared my opinion with him that she has BPD. I am worried that if I do he (or both of them) won't be ready to hear that and it will further distance me from them. I am one of the only supports he has and his wife unfortunately is usually not a big fan of mine despite repeated efforts on my part to have a relationship with her, it is of course sometimes very warm and then very cold shouldered for no reason that I can see. On the other hand, I feel like if it were me I would be relieved to have some kind of an explanation as to why my new wife was suddenly so angry much of the time, why she is never happy for any length of time, why the relationship is so volatile, and why it's always walking on eggshells with her. It also is information that could potentially offer them a fighting chance to make their marriage work... .something I can't see happening otherwise. Lastly I'm aware that it's not my business and not my relationship to become involved in fixing. Any insights or thoughts would be appreciated!

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi tzt123,

I am a newbie here and from what I have been reading around here, the advice is amazing.  I am reluctant to begin a reply because I see so much I have to learn still.  However, I am going to give it a shot anyway.

I think that you should trust your instincts and not share the BPD label with either of them.  This would be huge news and if your brother had to keep it secret from his wife, then that could be a wedge that "you caused." Or if she hears that you feel she has BPD, I can only imagine that she will flip out and use it as proof that you are against her.

It sounds like you are saying that what your brother needs most of all is your support.  I think it is a good idea to focus on maintaining your relationship with him and her in a way that he/she can digest and receive.

Sometimes, especially as a mental health worker, what seems everyday commonplace and obvious to you, could very well not be as easily processed/digested by others.

I think it may be more wise to find a way to deal with the symptoms of the disorder.  I think you can find a way to be equally helpful by not using any therapy lingo but still explaining the things you want to convey.

I once made the mistake of having my (then) BF tell his lawyer to get his ex to agree to participate in dialectical Tx as part of the custody agreement.  Looking back, I see how this made her flip out as it screamed BPD at her and made her defensive, then offensive.

I also think you should try to be sure to maintain being seen as his sister and her sister in law.  If they think that you are playing therapy on them, it could come off as narcissistic of you and give them reason to distance.  Stay in that supportive sister role, maybe take cues from them and only share what they seem to be able to ask for, and even then, make sure it is not "lingo" and make sure you think they really want it/can handle it. 

You probably have so much insight to share, but they can only swallow what they are ready for and the rest could vomit all over you. :/

Keep us posted

sunfl0wer

[tzt123]

Thank you sunfl0wer for your awesome insight and excellent points! I totally agree with you that the fallout could be huge and that the information would likely fall on deaf ears anyways, which is probably why I haven't shared it. The idea of creating a wedge between them if only my brother knew and had to keep it a secret is completely likely and I'm embarrassed to say it never even occurred to me since it's hard to see past the anger and hurt I'm feeling for my brother.

It is so hard to watch as the hurts pile up, betrayals, infidelity, cutting him off from supports and family... .he is a shell right now. If they split I could again imagine that info being helpful in making sense of everything and him learning that it's not all his fault, and starting to heal. I can also imagine him saying why didn't you tell me earlier? Any thoughts on whether or not it would be helpful to share with him if their relationship ended? In that situation I would be most concerned with him healing as much as possible, so sharing or not would be to that end.

[Sunfl0wer]

It is so hard to watch as the hurts pile up, betrayals, infidelity, cutting him off from supports and family... .he is a shell right now. If they split I could again imagine that info being helpful in making sense of everything and him learning that it's not all his fault, and starting to heal. I can also imagine him saying why didn't you tell me earlier? Any thoughts on whether or not it would be helpful to share with him if their relationship ended? In that situation I would be most concerned with him healing as much as possible, so sharing or not would be to that end.

I hear what you are saying. On the flip side, ironically enough, I am currently struggling with a bit of frustration towards our couples therapist.  I point blank, came into private session one day stating I felt BF had BPD and that I did some research on schema and other therapies and was applying this in the relationship with good results.  I told T that I did not expect him to confirm this as I didn't think he would see labeling beneficial, even though I was finding it helpful for me to cope and manage things.  T only admitted that BF had "traits" of BPD and NPD and normalized this by stating we all do and admitted to his own NPD traits.  He said it was unlikely because BF never self harmed, but after reading around here, he fits in just perfect. Well, all I can say is that I wish I found this site sooner.  Like 4 -5 years ago.  I still wonder about T's method.  Was it to get me to focus on me and my growth so that I would not discard the work I needed to do for myself by hiding behind a label of BF?  Or was he fooled and could not actually see all the BPD I could?  I think a bit of both. 

So I can see how you would want to have your brother "see" what seems obvious.  It would tear me apart to not just scream it out loud until someone "gets it." Unfortunately,

Looking back, even if T did not know, or did not want to stamp a label, I wish he validated more some of the BPD tools I was using that were helpful in treating symptoms.

Something in your words says to me that while you wish things would right between them both, things are not and you feel that your brother is going through suffering as a result of the relationship and also maybe some self inflicted suffering because of how he is processing it?

I am curious how other experienced members will post and respond.

Here are some questions this brings to my mind:

How would you know the relationship ended, and be certain it isn't a "recycle" as they call it here? (I wouldn't want your insights to get used against you or anyone else)

How do you know that you aren't enabling your brother in your attempts to "rescue" him?  How do you know that you aren't feeling too responsible for your brother's happiness?  (Finding this balance is something I get confused over, very tricky I think, I'd love to hear the answer to this)

Are they in therapy?  Maybe stating, "You guys are dealing with a lot of complicated factors and it is clear that you both care for one another, have you considered getting help to work some of it out?"   Maybe putting that out there?  Stepping back, then being a sister instead of a therapist?

I wonder what others think about sharing your thoughts in an "innocent" way.  Such as "I was reading this article and it reminded me of what you told me the other day, what do you think?"  Sharing in a way that may open him or her up to dialogue, but not going on initiating anything they don't first welcome.  (I think whatever you do say to him, assume that you have to be tactful to the point of assuming that she is able to hear the info too, as she may find out)

I don't know, these are just some out loud thoughts from a newbie so I'm interested to hear how things go and what others think.

[Ziggiddy]

Hi tzt123

I am sorry to hear your brother's marriage is in difficulty.

it's great that you want to be helpful and supportive and working in the health field would certainly give you a special insight into the nature of the problem.

However I tend to agree with Sunflower's responses which are pretty much spot on. In fact those responses were pretty much summing up what I would have had to say myself!

Although you may be aware of what the problem is it's quite another thing to tell that to your brother.

I know my brother tried to tell me there was something wrong with our mother but I was quite involved and very resistant. It just made me suspicious of him actually.

It would be worth your while to be available and a great listener but the 'diagnosis' may be better left for a later time.

As for not having told him earlier as you seem worried about, it is his wife, his life and his discovery to make. This doesn't mean you can't offer insight and tools - in fact my brother being available to listen to me and behaving in ways quite different to that which my mother described of him were some of the earlier signs that helped me to discover the truth.

It's kind of like that saying: a good teacher doesn't point at the answer, he points at the arrows that lead to the answer.

Do keep us updated on the situation, tzt.

And keep up the great insight Sunflower!

Ziggiddy

[Panda39]

 

I come at BPD from a different angle my SO of 4.5 years has an uBPDxw.  We didn't discover BPD until we were together for over a year.  But what a relief to have a name for her behaviors!  Things finally started to make sense for us.

We had the same issue you are having with your brother with my SO's daughters.  We had a name for what was going on with their mom.  Do we tell them?  It was such a relief for us to know.  Do we not tell them?  Were they ready to hear this information? 

Once divorced my SO's uBPDxw began spiraling down... .no more codependent husband to "manage" her or bail her out.  She began spiraling down to her natural conclusion... .having to deal with the consequences of her actions. 

Once their parents divorced the girls really began to really see the issues their mom has.  They started having questions and discussions with their dad.  They had conversations about mom's behaviors... .they were talking about "it" but "it" wasn't called BPD until dad added the term to the conversation when he felt they were ready to hear it... .accept it.  Both D14 & D18 have done some reading on the subject and have talked to their therapists about BPD as well.

So my suggestion is talk to your brother about his wife's "behaviors" and give him strategies to deal with her "behaviors" but don't name "it".  You are a mental health professional my bet is that your brother will ask you what you think is going on at some point.  Let him come to you when he is ready.  Then you can have the BPD discussion.  I hope you will tell him about us too.  He'll get a lot of support from the members here.

As an aside please suggest Therapy to your bother.  He needs a safe place to talk with someone neutral about what is going on in his life. 

Great job supporting your brother!  He's a lucky guy 

Take care,

Panda39 

[tzt123]

Wow thank you everyone for the insightful replies. It's really been exactly what I needed to hear, as this has been my tactic so far but as things have gotten worse and worse and my brother has begun to ask me advice I've been second guessing myself. Thank you all for the validation that I am doing the right thing. I am also hoping this site will assist me in the challenges of finding ways to maintain a relationship with both of them.

Just as extra info since you have asked, yes they tried marital counselling with little success. The counsellor either didn't pick up on it or didn't mention it, and my SIL decided to terminate it after a few sessions. I have been encouraging my brother to continue for his own stress.

As a personal aside, it becomes difficult sometimes separating the personal and professional in times like these because sometimes people ask your professional advice when it's too personal to give it and other times when you are just trying to be supportive in a personal way they think you're trying to play therapist on them. In another sense my experiences become my reality (I have deeply personal and emotional conversations with people daily) so I have to be aware, as sunfl0wer mentioned, that my normal comfort zone isn't everyone's. So it's a relief to find a place to hash this stuff out with some compassionate, experienced, and wise folks.

Also Sunfl0wer, I'm not sure if you wanted a response to your question about your therapist but I can tell you that training on Axis 2, or personality disorders, isn't even a part of many therapists' training so unless they have specialized training or experience with that population they could easily miss it or misunderstand things. Since s/he appeared to think that suicidality or self-harm always is present with BPD, they may just not have been that knowledgeable about it (which if that is true they probably should have told you). I'm sorry you didn't find the support you needed there but I'm very glad you are finding it here. You may be a"newbie" but you have excellent instincts!

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you tzt123,

My questions were rhetorical in case they meant something to you, but thanks for answering!

What you say makes sense, it certainly does explain why I spent so much time trying to explain things to T.  Anyway, I wasn't sure if there is some philosophy that T's have in regards to labeling.  Over the years I have heard Therapists caution in regards to labeling and just deal with the symptoms.  So maybe not labeling has its place and benefits, and also labeling has its place and benefits.

Well, keep us posted!