Adoption/RAD and BPD

[Linda Maria]

Hi all!  Sorry to hear of what you are going through Flamenco - I hope you can find some strength to continue to support your daughter, but it is vital that you look after yourself - you matter just as much.  

lbjnltx - thank you for posting the other link.  I looked on there and saw that someone had written that being adopted is a risk factor for BPD.  I would like to know if anyone can tell me any more about this?  I ask because I believe my sister has BPD. and at first I kept reading that it is often associated with poor parenting, trauma and abuse in childhood etc.  I couldn't understand this because my situation is that both my sister and I are adopted - we were both adopted more or less from birth, and there is only 13 months between us.  We both knew from a very early age that we were adopted, I have never had a problem with it, though I always sensed my sister was less comfortable with it, in that she never really talked about it.  My parents were strict but very loving, and we were always treated exactly the same, and had a very safe and secure, relatively privileged upbringing.  So for me it is a no-brainer that it is a genetic cause with my sister, as we had exactly the same environment growing up, and with no trauma.  I just wondered why being adopted, when you have always known, and from such a young age, i.e. we never knew anything else, so always had a loving environment, would be a risk factor?  If anyone can enlighten me on this I would really appreciate it, as it is still a puzzle to me.  Many thanks.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hi Linda maria... .

As I understand it, most children who are diagnosed with RAD... . Reactive Attachment Disorder are adopted.

My d's therapist in the RTC went on to specialize in attachment issues (adopted children).  She explained it to me that "BPD is RAD all grown up".  So the likelihood of adopted children who have RAD going on to develop BPD increases.

If you think about the greatest fear of those with BPD it is abandonment. To be given up for adoption can be processed by some as being "abandoned".

I'm not that knowledgeable about Attachment Theories... . others here are pretty well informed. Hopefully they can weigh in here.

[Linda Maria]

Thanks lbjnltx!  I have read a little on Reactive Attachment Disorder, but again, it doesn't seem to reflect my own experience - there is no way my sister was neglected in any way, my parents were very loving and very attentive.  I can understand how being adopted could feed into a feeling of abandonment, but we had such a secure and happy upbringing, that it still seems strange that she could feel like that.  She seems more classic BPD in that the problems really escalated as she got into her teens, and twenties.  Her relationships with men have always been tempestuous,  though she has only had a couple of serious relationships, both long-term - she has never indulged in short-term relationships, or been promiscuous, and any sort of rite of passage, such as going to university - though she continued to live at home, and particularly when my father died (I guess there's an abandonment connection there), and then 2 years ago my Mum died - which is when she turned on me completely, out of the blue, and that's when I realised there was something terribly wrong.  I guess I have to accept I'll never fully understand it, or be 100% sure that she has BPD, but so much fits, other than the bit about traumatic or abusive childhoods.  Thanks for your input. 

[lbjnltx]

Thanks lbjnltx!  I have read a little on Reactive Attachment Disorder, but again, it doesn't seem to reflect my own experience - there is no way my sister was neglected in any way, my parents were very loving and very attentive.  I can understand how being adopted could feed into a feeling of abandonment, but we had such a secure and happy upbringing, that it still seems strange that she could feel like that.

While your upbringing felt secure and happy to you that does not mean it felt secure and happy to your sister. Each of us have our own independent way of experiencing things.  If your sister is a highly sensitive person, learning of her adoption and the possible lacking of attachment to your parents sets her up to develop the disorder of BPD.

I guess I have to accept I'll never fully understand it, or be 100% sure that she has BPD, but so much fits, other than the bit about traumatic or abusive childhoods.  Thanks for your input.  

This is hard to wrap our heads around Linda Maria... .you had a happy childhood... .no abuse or trauma.  If you ask your sister about her childhood how does she describe it?

When a person is highly sensitive they experience things in extremes. For example; Being disciplined by parents is not something any teen would like and they wouldn't experience it as abusive.  A teen with BPD likely would.  My daughter used to literally live in her bedroom upstairs.  The carpet on the stairs was stained with whatever she spilled on her way up.  I cleaned the carpet and when I caught her with a sloshing bowl of cereal heading for the stairs I told her I didn't want her taking the cereal to her room, please sit at the breakfast bar to eat it.  After much defiance and me getting the cereal bowl out of her hands she told me she was going to report me to CPS because I wouldn't  let her eat and that was child abuse.

People with BPD live in extremes Linda Maria.  Whatever they feel... .they feel intensely.  Keeping this in mind while you learn more about this disorder and the person with BPD in your life can help us better our relationships with them.

lbj

[livednlearned]

There can also be a lot of differences in the adoption circumstances, prior to when your parents become involved. Do you know much about where your sister was adopted from?

My son experiences sensory processing issues (sometimes called sensory processing disorder -- SPD -- or sensory integration dysfunction), which seems to show up with kids who are ADHD, Asperger's or adopted. With the adopted kids, the theory is that they did not experience secure bonding/attachment styles with early caregivers.

SPD in my son means that he triggers on things that seem very subtle, like the feeling of tags, loud sounds, tight clothing.

The key to your sister's experience is likely based in her genetics, and that could make it so that her very early experiences had much more of an impact on how her personality responded, and maladaptive ways of coping.

If your parents were wonderful and nurturing, they are still wondering and nurturing, even if they did not create a validating environment for your sister. Even if they seem opposite, both are true. I breastfed my son for a year, stayed home with him for 2 years, responded to his needs, a typical doting, loving mom.

I also did not understand the depth of his sensitivities. He hated tags in his clothes, the feel of certain fabrics, holding a pencil  made him cry, and I often described him as having "big feelings." I didn't know anything about validation, so mostly I tried to soothe him. I didn't learn exactly what his needs were about until he was 10 or 11, and I'm still learning -- he's still learning too.

[Linda Maria]

Hi lbjnltx!  Thank you for taking the time to respond.  I totally get that she must have experienced things differently to me, but it's still hard to get my head around.  My Mum and Dad were very conventional people, we had a very normal upbringing.  My sister was always the more difficult one of the two of us, she always had a moody side, but my Mum and Dad didn't pander to it, and it was never a really big deal.  They never disciplined us harshly, and in my late teens I was the one who rebelled, ran around with all the wrong people and even ran away from home!  We all got through it, I always loved my parents, and for most of my life had a good relationship with them.  My sister is more conventional, she never rebelled the way I did, though she could be very difficult sometimes.  When she started secondary school, she went through a hysterical phase, where she wouldn't go to her own bedroom at night, and had to sleep on a couch downstairs till my Mum and Dad came up to bed.  Clearly the change to a much bigger school traumatised her.  She didn't enjoy university, and lived at home the whole time, and didn't really socialise there, but if I had gone to university and she hadn't - she would have probably blamed my parents for favouring me for evermore.  There always seemed to me to be some jealousy of me, which I never understood, as to be honest, as she never really left home, she got a lot more out of my parents than I ever did - she stayed dependent on them in many ways till they both died.  She bought her own house, she had a good job and all that stuff, but she carried on living with them, though she pretended to most people that she didn't live with them.  After my Dad died, she started calling my Mum by her first name when she talked about her, instead of Mum, which I always found weird.  But over the years when we have talked about childhood, it has always been mainly positive, and with humour - she has never mentioned anything that she said really upset her, and I have no doubt she really loved both my parents, though she was very difficult with my Mum after my Dad died.  Other than when she was in 2 long-term relationships and moved out for those years, she more or less lived at my Mum's till she died, but was always moaning about her, and implying that my Mum was making it difficult for her to leave, and that is absolutely not the case.  I guess I will never know or understand how she feels, I just feel uncomfortable when I read that BPD is usually associated with childhood trauma as this is definitely not the case in terms of our childhoods.  I had plenty of bust ups with my parents in my late teens, and I don't have a rosy view of my childhood, but it was loving and secure, I never felt unsafe in any way, and my sister and I were always treated equally - if for some reason one of us needed something that was quite expensive, my parents would always even it up, and get the other one something as well - they were always very careful about that sort of thing.  My sister was adopted after just a few days, and had been well cared for, as her adoption all went to plan.  Funnily enough, there were problems with my adoption, I arrived with them at 9 weeks, severely malnourished, underweight and neglected apparently (I don't consciously remember any of this of course), so that doesn't fit either.  Weird huh?

[Linda Maria]

Hi livedandlearned!  Thank you for your response.  I am sorry to hear of the difficulties with your son.  I guess I have to accept that I can't know what it feels like to be her, so I will never really understand why she is like this.  I don't know what my Mum and Dad could have done differently that would have changed things - I do think it must be mainly genetics.  I totally get the abandonment thing, and even though it seems weird, given her adoption was straightforward, after a few days, and she'd been well cared for (I know this because in later years I did talk to my Mum about both our adoptions) whereas she told me that my adoption had been the problematic one, and that in fact I had been quite neglected and was very underweight and malnourished when they finally got me.  But I understand that these things run deep, and perhaps because of a genetic predisposition to BPD, the adoption thing when she was old enough to really think about it, bothered her.  It would explain why she never wanted to talk about it to anyone, not even me really, but I always thought that was fair enough - some people are very private about stuff like that, so I didn't really think it was that strange.  My parents were quite old fashioned, and didn't make a point of telling people either, but that was more because they said some people had funny ideas about adoption, and I think they were trying to protect us from being "labelled" if ever anything went wrong.  My Mum told me once, that J was going through a difficult phase when she was just a toddler - normal tantrums I think - and she was telling a good friend - who said to her - "What do you expect - she's adopted!"  So my Mum and Dad were very private about it, but I can't remember a time when I didn't know, so they must have told us incredibly early on, at age 3 or even earlier.  I just feel upset when I read in so many places that it is associated with abusive childhoods, because I saw that everywhere when I first started researching, which worried me, but everything else fitted.  Anyway, thanks for listening!

[lbjnltx]

The absence of abusive, neglectful or traumatic childhood environments in the case studies accounts for the 42% identified as genetic cause.

Here is the link to the study:  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17988414


lbj

[Linda Maria]

Hi lbjnltx!  Thanks very much for the link to the study.  I feel better seeing that.  Thanks again.

[understandnow]

I'm fairly new to this site and I find it extremely helpful.  I have two adopted and two biological children,  my first child(-adopted)  has had issues since he was a baby.  He has been diagnosed with everything adhd, aspergers,  bipolar, but the more I read on this subject, feel he has many if not all the traits of a BPD.  He has not sought therapy since he went out on his own and takes no medication.  He is in a "rocky marriage and has sought out someone with similar traits.  Together their is always a storm.  I now am learning a new way of communicating with both of them.  Will let you know how it works out.  I have set boundaries, more so lately, and find the subject of RAD and borderline very interesting.  I know at least four people that have adopted children and have similar stories,  my other adopted, as well as biological children are on their grown, on their own and doing well.  I am a maternal child nurse and finding the problem with my son is that he has four children and they are caught up in the storms that their parents create.  So frustrating to watch the painful interactions without getting critical.  They ask for no advice and I do not give it, but the two adults create the storm and then cry to me when it rains!  I find that the hardest.  Anyone else with similar situations?

[inkling16]

I have often thought that there might be a simpler inheritance-based explanation for the adoption/BPD link: that women with BPD might be statistically more likely to get pregnant without meaning to (which I don't think would surprise anyone here if it were true), less likely to seek an abortion (either because they can't take the stress or because they can't get it together to find out where to have one), and less able to take care of the baby, so babies in the adoption pool have a higher incidence of those BPD genes than the general population. I don't know how you'd go about testing that theory without a genetic marker for BPD, but to me it's by far simpler than figuring out how a baby nurtured from birth develops abandonment issues.

I also think the heritability of BPD might go a long way to explain the observed correlation between BPD and abuse: if you have a parent and a child who both have BPD tendencies, you have no one in the relationship who has any patience, and abuse is almost inevitable, if the parent isn't treated. I'm not a hitter and neither were my parents, but our BPD daughter has tried my patience almost to the hitting point on many occasions. If my temper were on a par with hers, things would have gotten very ugly early on.

I would like to see a lot more study of the genetic factors behind this condition--I think existing research is just the tip of the iceberg.

Hi Linda maria... .

As I understand it, most children who are diagnosed with RAD... . Reactive Attachment Disorder are adopted.

My d's therapist in the RTC went on to specialize in attachment issues (adopted children).  She explained it to me that "BPD is RAD all grown up".  So the likelihood of adopted children who have RAD going on to develop BPD increases.

If you think about the greatest fear of those with BPD it is abandonment. To be given up for adoption can be processed by some as being "abandoned".

I'm not that knowledgeable about Attachment Theories... . others here are pretty well informed. Hopefully they can weigh in here.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

That would be interesting to find out what the stats are for adopted children inkling... .

There is much research on how bonding between mother and child very early after birth is necessary for a secure attachment... .when there is no secure attachment it can cause problems latter in life... .some go on to form secure attachments with their adoptive parents.  I wonder if this is where the genetics come into play... .the ability to form these attachments later in the life stages... .?

I'll keep my eyes peeled for anything that may be pertinent to this... .let us know if you find anything as well.

lbj

[Linda Maria]

Hi inkling16!  That's an interesting theory - hadn't thought of that.  Makes sense on a lot of levels.  I live in the UK, and was adopted in the early 1960s, as was my sister.  We are both of Irish origin - and because of the Catholic Church's views on unmarried mothers getting pregnant, the shame on the family, the connotations of sin etc. a lot of girls came over to England to have their babies adopted.  A lot of English babies were also adopted in the 1960s and 1970s for the same reason - it just wasn't acceptable then to have a baby out of wedlock.  So I think there is something to your theory, but I also feel so sorry for all those young girls who just made a mistake, or were unlucky in not having support from their family, and were essentially "forced" to give up their babies, often against their wishes.  But you're right - it would be so interesting to have a proper study of the role and nature of adoptive relationships in BPD development.  I would say my uBPDsis was very attached to my Mum and Dad - she never really moved out of home permanently, other than when she was in 2 live-in relationships - although she had a sometimes tricky relationship with my Mum.  But my Mum was also a strong personality, though a really nice person, but until the last few years when she was quite frail, and not up to arguing, up till then, she was never someone who would walk on eggshells around my sister, she was very down to earth, and would say it like it is.  I can't stand pointless confrontation, so I was always careful around my sister to stay off certain topics, and would often go along with her way of doing something, even though it was inconvenient to me, and would take longer, cost more etc. rather than bother to argue, because I knew it would turn into an argument.  I was a bit of a pushover in that sense, but it was my choice rather than have some pointless b___y argument, which was the alternative.  My uBPDsis never gave my Dad any grief - he wasn't especially stern, but she clearly loved and respected him hugely.  She also loved my Mum very much, no question - even though she was always moaning about her after my Dad died 20 years ago.  So it all still seems quite a puzzle to me.  Really nice that so many people are so informed on this - I'm the only adopted person I know, (other than sis) and I think my sister is the only BPD person I know well, so I felt like it was just me for a long time!

[Kate4queen]

That would be interesting to find out what the stats are for adopted children inkling... .

There is much research on how bonding between mother and child very early after birth is necessary for a secure attachment... .when there is no secure attachment it can cause problems latter in life... .some go on to form secure attachments with their adoptive parents.  I wonder if this is where the genetics come into play... .the ability to form these attachments later in the life stages... .?

I'll keep my eyes peeled for anything that may be pertinent to this... .let us know if you find anything as well.

lbj

This makes me smile because I had the worst start to life. Born at home in the freezing winter at 34 weeks, only 4 pounds in weight and immediately taken away by the midwife to a hospital incubator 10 miles from where my non driving parents lived. And then my 3 siblings got measles so I couldn't go home and was cared for (believe it or not) by our family doctor and his wife for 4 weeks.

If anyone should have a not secure attachment with their mother it surely should be me. And I don't have BPD.

My son who does have it actually was literally carried on my hip for the first 4 years of his life because he couldn't walk and was as bonded to me as possible. Personally I think the way his brain works equalled me putting him down and expecting him to learn how to get mobile by himself was as traumatic as adoption or separation. But only because of the genetic makeup of his brain.