Thinking about my adoptive mom

[Mutt]

I was thinking about my adoptive mom this morning. She passed away from cancer 32 years ago. I have read that you grieve the death of a loved one lasts a life time. Obviously the impact isn't the same as many years ago.

I was thinking about what she saw in my dad because my dad is narcissistic. I could ask myself the same question, why did I fall in live with a woman with BPD traits? I hadn't thought about my grandparents, her parents for some time. They both passed away a few short years later. Anyways, my grandmother was an alcoholic and her drink of choice was gin.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this and I found it curious it just struck me. It feels like a piece of the puzzle of a bigger picture with my family dynamics snapped into place. I think about my mom from time to time. It might sound bad to say, I feel a stronger connection with her than my biological mom. I didn't have a lot of time with my adoptive mom because she passed away when I was very young.

[Turkish]

So you were around 9 when she passed. You saw her as a child would see his mother, naturally. That image remains, even if you've had decades of adult thinking in between.

If you were a "parent" to your wife in a sense, how do you think fits into the puzzle? My puzzle is somewhat similar.

[Mutt]

I often think of her in the point of view of a child yes. I've been having empathy for her although she's been gone for decades. How would it feel knowing end of life was coming and leaving young kids in the care of your partner? Did she trust my dad?

I was a fixer and helper with my wife. She complained sometimes about how I wasn't her dad. I was often trying to tell her what she should do.

I think it's generational and that's how it fits into the puzzle?

[jhkbuzz]

I was thinking about my adoptive mom this morning. She passed away from cancer 32 years ago. I have read that you grieve the death of a loved one lasts a life time. Obviously the impact isn't the same as many years ago.

I was thinking about what she saw in my dad because my dad is narcissistic. I could ask myself the same question, why did I fall in live with a woman with BPD traits? I hadn't thought about my grandparents, her parents for some time. They both passed away a few short years later. Anyways, my grandmother was an alcoholic and her drink of choice was gin.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this and I found it curious it just struck me. It feels like a piece of the puzzle of a bigger picture with my family dynamics snapped into place. I think about my mom from time to time. It might sound bad to say, I feel a stronger connection with her than my biological mom. I didn't have a lot of time with my adoptive mom because she passed away when I was very young.

I've been thinking about this lately too... .it came up with my T yesterday.  How I think my maternal grandmother may have had a personality disorder - she was always "the victim." How (on the Karpman drama triangle) my grandmother was "victim" - and my mother became "persecutor." How that "persecutor" role played out in my own relationship with her (hint: it was rough). How my mom eventually went n/c with my grandmother. How passive my father was in his r/s with my mother. And most importantly: how all of this impacted me.  

It's strange to me that I'm just now REALLY considering the fact that I don't exist in a vacuum   - that there is an entire family history that looms before me.

[Mutt]

It's strange to me that I'm just now REALLY considering the fact that I don't exist in a vacuum   - that there is an entire family history that looms before me.

I like your analogy that you don't exist in a vacuum. I'm not sure if you feel the same way. I found the break-up with my ex partner was very difficult to cope with it. I saw pathologies with my ex partner that I could identify with family members and especially my dad. I felt like I didn't have the energy to work through that stuff. I moved that stuff to the back-burner until I felt I was far enough with my healing that I could cope with it.

Yes, my grandmother on my father's side was waifish. I can't tell if family members went NC with her. I do know that some in the family would not visit or seldom spoke to her.

[jhkbuzz]

It's strange to me that I'm just now REALLY considering the fact that I don't exist in a vacuum   - that there is an entire family history that looms before me.

I like your analogy that you don't exist in a vacuum. I'm not sure if you feel the same way. I found the break-up with my ex partner was very difficult to cope with it. I saw pathologies with my ex partner that I could identify with family members and especially my dad. I felt like I didn't have the energy to work through that stuff. I moved that stuff to the back-burner until I felt I was far enough with my healing that I could cope with it.

Yes, my grandmother on my father's side was waifish. I can't tell if family members went NC with her. I do know that some in the family would not visit or seldom spoke to her.

Not sure that I understand the second sentence... .feel the same way about what?

My ex's pathologies don't ring any bells for me... .yet... .although I sure can relate to not having enough energy to work though all her "stuff"!

[Mutt]

Not sure that I understand the second sentence... .feel the same way about what?

What I mean is when I started to learn about BPD behaviors and how for some members it sooths life-long emotional wounds, I started to connect the dots with my FOO. For example, I learned about narcissism and how my father has narcissist traits. That being said, I wanted to work on my own emotional baggage from FOO and I found that it was difficult enough grieving and I couldn't work through my FOO issues at the same time. I felt overwhelmed. I grieved the relationship and then found it easier to work through my FOO issues. I was curious if you felt the same way  Make sense?

[Turkish]

I often think of her in the point of view of a child yes. I've been having empathy for her although she's been gone for decades. How would it feel knowing end of life was coming and leaving young kids in the care of your partner? Did she trust my dad?

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Disease took the choice away from her. Do you think maybe you are feeling the same way about yourself, like if you were to be taken, that you are worried about leaving your kids in the care of your uBPDx?

I was a fixer and helper with my wife. She complained sometimes about how I wasn't her dad. I was often trying to tell her what she should do.

I think it's generational and that's how it fits into the puzzle?

I think you've probably read this, but what do you think about Bowen's theory of differentiation when it comes to family dynamics?

www.thebowencenter.org/theory/eight-concepts/differentiation-of-self/

Every human society has its well-differentiated people, poorly differentiated people, and people at many gradations between these extremes. Consequently, the families and other groups that make up a society differ in the intensity of their emotional interdependence depending on the differentiation levels of their members. The more intense the interdependence, the less the group’s capacity to adapt to potentially stressful events without a marked escalation of chronic anxiety. Everyone is subject to problems in his work and personal life, but less differentiated people and families are vulnerable to periods of heightened chronic anxiety which contributes to their having a disproportionate share of society’s most serious problems.

[Mutt]

Since you pointed that out, I was sick for a few weeks with bronchitis, the second time since I seperated. I've been a smoker for years and the first time I went to the MD he said its a sign to quit. This last time I got sick, the thought had crossed my mind about how the kids would cope without dad. It made me think about self care and how I should take better care of myself and quit smoking. I understand I was sick and it did make me think of my morality.

I have not read Bowen's theory about self differentiation within the family dynamics before and I read the theory in the link provided. I think what is interesting is how the family can manage stressful periods and how the individuals cope with anxiety. I would describe my marriage as a less adaptive marriage.

I wasn't a perfect husband by any means and I do think that I'm a level headed individual and I did like to take my time with thinking about decisions. My ex partner would project and I was confused because I had always thought of my self as a level headed person.

That said, I can see from Bowen's theory with how the family was less adaptive and I think that it makes sense with how family, peers and groups affect how people think. I think you can take bpdfamily.com as an example of how a social group affects how people think?

What are your thoughts Turkish?

[jhkbuzz]

Not sure that I understand the second sentence... .feel the same way about what?

What I mean is when I started to learn about BPD behaviors and how for some members it sooths life-long emotional wounds, I started to connect the dots with my FOO. For example, I learned about narcissism and how my father has narcissist traits. That being said, I wanted to work on my own emotional baggage from FOO and I found that it was difficult enough grieving and I couldn't work through my FOO issues at the same time. I felt overwhelmed. I grieved the relationship and then found it easier to work through my FOO issues. I was curious if you felt the same way  Make sense?

Absolutely! I'm not certain it even occurred to me to connect anything with FOO issues initially.  Actually, I know it didn't - it was through reading these boards that I understood that the depth of pain I - and others - were feeling could be connected to unresolved FOO issues. I'm still working through it but I couldn't have even started to the process until the worst of my grieving was over - I couldn't even think straight for the first several months after the b/u.

[Mutt]

Absolutely! I'm not certain it even occurred to me to connect anything with FOO issues initially.

Hey jhkbuzz,

I was reading an article on the site when I was grieving the loss of the relationship. Everyday I'd wake up I felt one solid block of pain the entire day until I'd go to bed. Wake up, rinse and repeat. I'm sure many can relate. I was looking forward to going to sleep just so I didn't have to feel that way.

Anyways, I can't recall the article and it mentioned for some it was the death of a family member   I could see similarities and distinct differences with my wife and my dad; dichotomous thinking or black and white thinking, emotional immaturity, projection. My dad is different with his ego, grandiose ideas, difficulties displaying empathy or love, he's always put his needs before the kids.  I don't know if my dad is NPD and people do have a little narcissism and my father is on the more extreme side of the narcissism scale.  That article is what tipped me off.

[jhkbuzz]

Absolutely! I'm not certain it even occurred to me to connect anything with FOO issues initially.

Hey jhkbuzz,

I was reading an article on the site when I was grieving the loss of the relationship. Everyday I'd wake up I felt one solid block of pain the entire day until I'd go to bed. Wake up, rinse and repeat.I'm sure many can relate. I was looking forward to going to sleep just so I didn't have to feel that way.

Anyways, I can't recall the article and it mentioned for some it was the death of a family member   I could see similarities and distinct differences with my wife and my dad; dichotomous thinking or black and white thinking, emotional immaturity, projection. My dad is different with his ego, grandiose ideas, difficulties displaying empathy or love, he's always put his needs before the kids.  I don't know if my dad is NPD and people do have a little narcissism and my father is on the more extreme side of the narcissism scale.  That article is what tipped me off.

I don't think I've seen a more apt description of what those first months were like  :'(

I'm still sifting through the similarities and differences... .I think that one of the things that has confused me is that I expect things to fall along gender lines. Were you surprised that your wife and dad had similarities?  If I were you I would have been looking for the similarities between wife and MOM... .know what I mean?  But I'd be wrong - it really isn't gender specific, is it?

[Mutt]

I can recall memories of my mother as early as 3 years old and 4. I recall my mother as present, caring and loving. I have a memory I recall and it might sound silly. I was very young and I was upset. I was outside of our family home playing at the time. It was a sunny day with clouds and she was hugging me. I remember feeling love and she pointed up sky and was talking about god. It's a memory I recall from time to time when I start thinking about her. I've always felt love when I think about her and not memories of emotional abuse.

I met my wife in late 2004 and she was pregnant in early 2005. The reason why I chose to stay was because I didn't want my daughter to be abandoned like dad was. My biological mom abandoned me and my adoptive mom abandoned me because she lost her life. These were events that affected my life and my dad couldn't provide for us with emotional support. He was an emotionally abusive man.

When my mom died I didn't get the news from my dad and I got the news from my aunt. I felt disappointed that it didn't come from him. I still remember that.

January of 2005 I told my ex that I want to be a part of my baby's life and we agreed on moving in together. April of that year she moved in, she had loose ends to take care of in her hometown. She was going to school where I live for a program. I know that my wife was denigrating her mother and making her as persecutor. My wife had broken up with an ex and was living at home and said her mom was difficult with her and treating her poorly.

I think my wife was looking for someone to take care of her and wanted away from her mom. By July of that summer of 2005 and 3 months after she had moved in the honeymoon was over. She was getting intimate and started acting out.

Our first fight triggered memories of my father and how absolutely difficult he was with disagreements and fights when I was a kid ( teenager ) after my mom had passed away. He was not often present when my mom was alive. He often worked out of town and when she died he was gone for almost a year working out of town and my siblings and I were watched by nanny's and family. Throughout my marriage and when my ex had borderline rages I would get feelings of deja-vu like I had been there before with my dad.

I would call my dad out on his behaviors and logic when I was around 12 years old a pre-teen. I think that I hadn't processed the grief and loss with my mom and was angry at my dad for how he treated my siblings and I. My father would split me black and we had terrible rails were he would yell and scream at me. I couldn't get him to see my logic or to have him calm down. I was surprised that the answer was in front of me when I had fights with my wife. The answers about myself and how I met a borderline woman were in the past with my father. I had a family member that shows traits of mental illness.