Therapy--Did she lie to get out of it?

[DyingLove]

I just read something in another post that led me to think.

There was, at one time, maybe in 2013, a time when my ex actually did go for therapy. She made 3 sessions and I was very happy that she did.  It wasn't her idea, but that doesn't matter as long as she decided to go.  I was very anxious to participate too. I was willing beyond belief to go with her to any necessary sessions.  We had to pay out of pocket for this, but it was worth it.

So, keep in mind that I was willing to go and DID really want to go and be part of the process. The ex had mentioned to me that the therapist wanted us to have a joint session.  I was thrilled.  One day the ex also said to me (before that joint session), that the therapist recommended that we not be together.  I was kinda upset about that and couldn't wait to talk to the therapist about it.  That session never happened.  In fact the ex said to me that she didn't want me to go, because I would make the therapist believe what I wanted her to.

Okay, any takers on this one?   Did she actually lie about the fact that the therapist recommended our not being together so that A: she could stop going, B: that I would not get a chance to go to a session with her, C: both, D: something else?

I have entertained this thought some time ago, I think I might have posted it too. There were no more sessions other than those 3 or so.  I used to go with her (for the drive) and wait for her.  I don't know how good a therapist she was, but she was just across from where the ex worked at the time.

The last post, everyone saw something that I didn't (cause I'm in the box), I'm interested to see what else I didn't see clearly. 

[Invictus01]

She probably did. Many of them do. Actually, according to psychologists, the vast majority of personality disordered people won't even go into an evaluation and out of those who do, just a fraction would ever be diagnosed with BPD and will actually go into treatment. Many will drop out right away for whatever reason they come up with.

But you know what man... .that was then... .She did what she did for whatever reason she did. Like we talked about it, no way to rationalize, explain or reason with unreasonable. It was 2 years ago. Set your eyes to 2 years from now and walk there without looking back. That's the only thing you can do.

[DyingLove]

She probably did. Many of them do. Actually, according to psychologists, the vast majority of personality disordered people won't even go into an evaluation and out of those who do, just a fraction would ever be diagnosed with BPD and will actually go into treatment. Many will drop out right away for whatever reason they come up with.

But you know what man... .that was then... .She did what she did for whatever reason she did. Like we talked about it, no way to rationalize, explain or reason with unreasonable. It was 2 years ago. Set your eyes to 2 years from now and walk there without looking back. That's the only thing you can do.

So true Invictus01.  I guess it really stinks when you didn't pickup on something that maybe you should have.  I don't know that it would have helped anything, I mean if I had know, should I/would I have stressed the therapy visits versus her making me think that it was going to spit us up. 

I get your point about it being in the past.  I agree with that too. I guess If I just knew how to take everything and wrap it up in foil and toss it in tomorrows garbage, I would. I have a hard time letting go of stuff in general I think. I appreciate the gentle nature of your "just forget this crap" kinda comment,,,and it actually flags me in a good way to "not obsess" where I shouldn't.  Sometimes I envy those with a FTW type of attitude.  I don't say that everything should be ignored, but for stress reduction purposes, I know it's the way to go.  I'll get over this, I know I will.  The guilt I've collected, and/or the capacity for feeling guilt was certainly oiled and made to run smooth during the past 4 years.  Prior to that, I was pretty much an easy going person with not as much emphasis on trivial crap.

Thanks Invictus01

[Skip]

People (including us) go to therapists because we feel emotional pain of some type.

I suspect that she was struggling and it was, in part or largely , related to the relationship. Initially, she agreed that the therapy might fix it.

In her discussions with the therapist,  the therapist helped her probe her feelings and thoughts and she ultimately told the therapist, in so many words, that she had serious questions about going on.  The therapist netted it out for her as therapists will do (example: "So what your really saying is that this is not working for you? Is that right?  Think about what you are saying? We'll talk next week."

She then reported to you what the therapist said to her.

At that point, the original therapy plan that she talked about to you didn't make sense.

Certainly, it wasn't exactly like this, but something like this.

This is not an uncommon scenario.  Often couples go therapy and each mostly has the expectation that the partner is broken and the therapy will fix the partner.

[DyingLove]

People (including us) go to therapists because we feel emotional pain of some type.

I suspect that she was struggling and it was, in part or largely , related to the relationship. Initially, she agreed that the therapy might fix it.

In her discussions with the therapist,  the therapist helped her probe her feelings and thoughts and she ultimately told the therapist, in so many words, that she had serious questions about going on.  The therapist netted it out for her as therapists will do (example: "So what your really saying is that this is not working for you? Is that right?  Think about what you are saying? We'll talk next week."

She then reported to you what the therapist said to her.

At that point, the original therapy plan that she talked about to you didn't make sense.

Certainly, it wasn't exactly like this, but something like this.

This is not an uncommon scenario.  Often couples go therapy and each mostly has the expectation that the partner is broken and the therapy will fix the partner.

Skip, it did make sense, going on with therapy. My ex did NOT want to proceed and said that I would tell the therapist what I "wanted her to believe." This was not true in the least!

[Skip]

Skip, it did make sense, going on with therapy.

To you it may have made sense. And from a clinical perspective you may be right. But in your ex's shoes, she saw it differently, and she was the client.

It's very telling when someone tells you the therapist said "we should not be together". Why? The only thing the therapists is working with is the clients emotional conflicts. Every therapist, early on, will probe things like "do you really want to do this", " does that make sense for you", etc., just to see how the client reacts.  Apparently she reacted and they went down this path far enough to change the plan.

If you read about this on the boards, you will see this playing out many times.

She said that I would tell the therapist what I "wanted her to believe." This was not true in the least!

I think what she was saying is that you would try to sway the therapist in a different direction than she was headed.  

Think about it.  If she is sitting in front of the pDOC saying that the relationship was fatally flawed, and you did X, y, z,  would you be agreeing or countering and defending?

It is also telling that she never said that the therapist reversed her position about having a joint session. This suggests that the therapist was more open minded about exploring the situation with the three of you than your ex.

What is the back story that lead to the sessions?

[DyingLove]

Skip, it did make sense, going on with therapy.

To you it may have made sense. And from a clinical perspective you may be right. But in your ex's shoes, she saw it differently, and she was the client.

It's very telling when someone tells you the therapist said "we should not be together". Why? The only thing the therapists is working with is the clients emotional conflicts. Every therapist, early on, will probe things like "do you really want to do this", " does that make sense for you", etc., just to see how the client reacts.  Apparently she reacted and they went down this path far enough to change the plan.

If you read about this on the boards, you will see this playing out many times.

She said that I would tell the therapist what I "wanted her to believe." This was not true in the least!

I think what she was saying is that you would try to sway the therapist in a different direction than she was headed.  

Think about it.  If she is sitting in front of the pDOC saying that the relationship was fatally flawed, and you did X, y, z,  would you be agreeing or countering and defending?

It is also telling that she never said that the therapist reversed her position about having a joint session. This suggests that the therapist was more open minded about exploring the situation with the three of you than your ex.

What is the back story that lead to the sessions?

WIth every bit of my honesty, I would listen wholeheartedly to the therapist. I would NEVER negate or deny anything my ex would feel. I would however, when asked, to divulge my feelings or views on "said" topic.  In other words, if we are there to make things better (however) then that is what I'm focusing on.  I don't need to be right, and there wasn't anything in our RS that I focused on being right about. Of course being honest about my feelings is not a matter of being right, it is what it is.  I've always been open to finding solutions for us that work. Plenty of flexibility and swaying in my life. I did have boundaries when things became extreme and/or abusive.

She took meds prescribed by an MD that she worked for. On occasions she had to switch the meds for other items because some were either ineffective or BECAME ineffective. There was a local therapist that frequented the Dr.'s office so we reciprocated and used her. I don't know how fluent in our type of concerns she was, but she was local, recommended and that was our choice.  So the therapy was recommended by the dr. my ex worked for. I had been pushing to go to couples therapy way long before that.  I was all for having our RS work and be healthy.  The ex had big issues in the past with her two ex husbands. Of course I wanted to believe that we were going to get over all that baggage.

One thing I new from the very start about her meds: When I asked her why she took them she told me it's because she's tired of crying. That was it. She said she would cry all the time if she didn't take them.  I did she how she could go from zero to "blown our of proportion" in a very short time.  I tried to help her with diet, she was a sugar and soda junkie, and a majority of her diet consisted of McDonalds.  She cut back on the sugars and soda and I cooked good foods. The families habits changed for a more healthy turn.  I also incorporated lots of massage and feeling and touch. She was very safe in our relationship... .and for what it's worth she seemed happier.  Seemed is a good word here, because things aren't always what they seem to be.

[oor_wullie]

thing is, they don't take responsibility for the crap they do. so therapy is really hard for them. when they go, they go to fix the issues *they* think they have - like depression, or anxiety, or their relationship issues. these aren't BPD, these are the symptoms of BPD.  my sister is a therapist, and she told me that normally a therapist would never tell a patient they have BPD, because that's the best way to ensure they never go back to the therapist!

so instead, the therapist takes their time talking through all the issues the BPD has, until i guess the BPD starts to see that some of this is to do with their own behaviour, and not everyone else's.

my guess is that your ex didn't even go to any of the sessions. that would be why she didn't want you to come along - because they weren't actually happening.

my exBPDgf finally got into therapy on the NHS (in the UK, it's really hard to get into that programme - you have to wait months and months for a space). she went to one session, and decided the therapist wasn't a nice person - asking her a lot of painful and nasty questions about her parents. stuff she didn't want to talk about. she wanted to talk about her anxiety, and about why everyone in her life had been so horrible to her. she felt the therapist was blaming her!

the next week she "accidentally" missed the session, because she lost track of time. that was a crock. an obvious lie. the week after she told be that because she'd missed one session, she wasn't allowed back (that was a lie too - i checked - NHS therapists don't do that). and anyway, she told me, the therapist was trying to turn her into an a**hole!

BPDs don't experience reality the same way we do. they see you doing something bad, but in fact you were just doing something nice, or caring. you fail to reply to their text immediately, and they tell you you've abandoned them. they fail to reply to *your* text, even after a couple of days, and they tell you you're being controlling and suffocating when you ask why they didn't reply.

so it makes sense that she'd believe you'd be ganging up against her with the therapist. she'd think that even if you were just trying to get her to see that maybe, sometimes, she acts in an odd way! that would be a betrayal. the persecution complex and their inability to ever see that they're in the wrong.

i'm at the end of 8 years of my BPD. and the fact is that she lied about *everything*. absolutely everything. bit by bit, you chip away at the things she's said, and you start to realise that not one word was every completely true.

[Madison66]

After the first couples T told her and I that she believed my ex gf showed strong traits of BPD and NPD, she abandoned the process.  For the next two T's we saw, my ex gf projected her issues on to me and attempted to show me as abusive.  So, she lied DURING T to paint me as the bad guy.  It just about drove me crazy!

[Gonzalo]

I doubt that she lied per se - lying requires that you make a statement that you know to be untrue. From what I've read and seen, BPD causes really intense emotions, and part of how they deal with that is with projection and rewriting memories. So a lot of the the things that aren't true aren't actually lies, just very distorted memories and/or thinking from a person with a severe problem. Understanding this helped me a lot, because some of the things that weren't true just didn't make any sense - there would be no external gain from lying - but do make sense when you factor in the emotions and bad coping strategies.

When I went to our therapist alone, the therapist said that my ex's behaviour was definitely abusive, in particular threats to leave and shouting at me. When I foolishly decided on my last real recycle, a condition was that we go to therapy together, and when we did the therapist tried to work on having us communicate better, which was really the best she could do. But after my ex became my ex, she (the ex) claimed that the the therapy was purely to work on my communication skills (even though I had said otherwise when I demanded it), and that the therapist said that was the only problem in our relationship (even though she never did, I'm pretty sure she was just working on what could be fixed with the person willing to make changes), and neglected to mention that she would be 'too sick' to do the exercises the therapist gave us. I am sure that my ex- completely believes that's what happened, and thinks that it was all me being unreasonable and uncommunicative, but it's just not the case.

[SummerStorm]

My former friend BPD lies about everything, so I'm sure she lies to her therapist,  too.   Before she was diagnosed with BPD,  she was seeing a psychiatrist.  She was having all kinds of problems around the time of her appointment in June: drug use,  relationship problems,  depression,  suicidal thoughts.  She went to the appointment, got her sleeping pill prescription, left, and came to work.  Three days later, she tried to commit suicide.    

Last I heard, she was in therapy, though I don't know if the person specializes in BPD. But whenever I mentioned BPD to her boyfriend,  he would either ignore the statement or try to come up with some reason for her behavior.  I amped up my warnings yesterday, but I heard nothing from him.  So,  I went on Facebook and saw a post from him about how she is wife material.      Less than two months ago,  she was lying to me about him hitting her and asking me what our life would be like if we got married,  but whatever.   But it's pretty clear that I'm the persecutor and he's the rescuer.   I can only imagine what other lies she's told about me.  Either way,  she got her wish.   For weeks,  she's been telling him not to reply to me.  She amped up the love-bombing with him and painted me black.   Gotta love a pwBPD's bag of tricks.

If I had to guess, she is either convinced that she doesn't have BPD, is trying to convince her therapist that she doesn't, or knows she has it but lied to her boyfriend about the diagnosis.  It's been a month since her diagnosis,  but he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about when I mentioned BPD. So, maybe he's in denial.  The guy is nice, but he's oblivious to most things and is an idealist. I mentioned several times about her ability to lie, and he always ignored me.  If someone kept telling me to research a disorder because someone I love was diagnosed with it, I would do it right away.  I admit that I got pulled in by my pwBPD, but there was always an element of caution with me.  I told her multiple times that I wouldn't live with her. He gave in after three months.  When I eventually agreed (after she said he hit her), I said it would be a house, not an apartment.  I knew this would give me at least a few months to make sure things were okay. I also frequently confronted her about her lies,  which I know she hated.  

They are apparently moving soon,  and it sounds like they aren't staying in the area, so I'm sure she'll need to get a new therapist.  If she cancels therapy sessions like she cancels everything else,  I'm sure she'll go through many therapists.  Heck,  maybe she's already stopped going.  Her symptoms have only seemed to intensify in the past few weeks.  Of course,  since she's been love-bombing her boyfriend, he thinks she's been magically cured.

[Infared]

Mine went to therapy... .told lie after lie to the therapist... I know this because I was invited to a session (there were supposed to be 6 sessions)... And saw that she lied to the T about her cheating and the therapist was assaulting me based on my ex's prior manipulations on her. It was like I walked into a twisted ambush. This woman... the T, was so, so unprofessional I was just devastated and felt so betrayed and manipulated. I did not go back. I was sort of dumbfounded and speechless.

I really started to see how sick my ex was. It was like a sad movie... .except it was my life. That was one of many situations that made NC my tool of choice.

[enlighten me]

My ex wife saw a therapist. We went together once and I saw the same therapist once after we split.

she suddenly decided she didnt need therapy anymore. I put this down to the therapist getting her into her discomfort One. When I saw the therapist she basically told me to run and never look back. My ex MIL told me she had lied to the therapist.

I believe my ex wwnt so she could be told it wasnt her so painted a picture of me as the cause of everything. When the therapist didnt buy inti this then she was painted black and discarded.

She has subsequently seen another therapist tgat told her to leave her husband. No doubt her role has been heavily watered down.

[DyingLove]

Seems like the consensus is that they try to get out of therapy.  "I'm not sick, why should I have to go!"
<br/>:)AMN,,,If I had $$$, I would go to therapy 3 times a day!  LOL

It's such a confusing mess, but understanding their behavior actually helps see how they operate.  It's easy to say that sharks are dangerous, but knowing  a little bit about why they attack might just lead us to a better understanding of them as well as a better protection scheme.

I didn't see the red flags early on in my RS, because I didn't know BPD.  Now I know more and I see the red flags. Its the same with this post, more red flags show up because of their behavior.  I really didn't understand at the time that she could have been blowing smoke about the entire therapy thing.  If I got into a RS and couples therapy might be needed, I would know something is wrong if my partner refused to go or put up a fuss.  Just more education.

[Invictus01]

I didn't see the red flags early on in my RS, because I didn't know BPD.  Now I know more and I see the red flags. Its the same with this post, more red flags show up because of their behavior.  I really didn't understand at the time that she could have been blowing smoke about the entire therapy thing.  If I got into a RS and couples therapy might be needed, I would know something is wrong if my partner refused to go or put up a fuss.  Just more education.

It is just my opinion... .but if a relationship is broken to the point of going to a couples therapy... .BPD or not... .People are trying to save something that probably can't be saved.

[DyingLove]

I didn't see the red flags early on in my RS, because I didn't know BPD.  Now I know more and I see the red flags. Its the same with this post, more red flags show up because of their behavior.  I really didn't understand at the time that she could have been blowing smoke about the entire therapy thing.  If I got into a RS and couples therapy might be needed, I would know something is wrong if my partner refused to go or put up a fuss.  Just more education.

It is just my opinion... .but if a relationship is broken to the point of going to a couples therapy... .BPD or not... .People are trying to save something that probably can't be saved.

Thank you invictus01.  When therapy come to mind, the lack of communication does too.  My ex did NOT know how to hold a talk/discussion, she didn't know how to communicate.  I think many people share this and if they COULD communicate, I think life would be so much better in the RS.  As many times as I sat with the ex, and went over the checklist how to talk to one another, she just either didn't get it, or didn't care.  She would listen while I talked, then I would listen while she talked, then I would talk and she'd break in with "Oh, I wanna say this before I forget", and then it all went down hill.  She just wouldn't be fair at times. Sometimes you gotta take notes, but more often then not, the rules got thrown out!  So, in my minds eye, I kinda see the T as a referee in my case. Getting to the point of being able to communicate/listen/not argue, is the beginning of making it work.  But like I said, this is all in my mind, and the way she reacted to it all is what it was.